NFL Division 1 2011

[Hound]

At the same time, if Monaghan did manage to beat Kerry and Mayo (unlikely as that is), Armagh could still go down. Although that depends on whether it is decided on head to head or scoring average if the teams are level. Anyone know?

Scoring average.

Its the same as last year, isnt it?

If two teams are level, then head-to-head decides who is top. But if more than two teams are level then it goes to score difference.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Why did Tomas O Flatharta last win a league game?

Because he had a decent team set up properly (and the Dubs had a load standing on the Hill).

[Kerry Mike]

Div 1 winners and loser still to be decided as we face into the last 2 rounds, the Dubs need 1pt but probably 2 points from 4 to be sure of a final spot and you would expect them do the dirty deed and win v Down next time out in Croker, They have the "banker" of a trip to Galway in the last game, but I expect them to be already in the final by then. But they were jittery yesterday against Mayo almost throwing away a huge lead and did well to close out the win.

The 2nd Spot is still not decided but Cork are in the driving seat on 8 points but they struggled to put away Galway convincingly last time out and with a Tricky game away in Endaland and a last game home to Armagh they have to win at least one of them and if they slip up to Mayo it will make it very interesting at the top. Hard to see them losing to Mayo though as their physical size will suffocate Mayo.

Down in 3rd place on 7pts  have the toughest run in on paper, away to both Dublin and Kerry, but never a game was won on paper or so they say, still it's going to be tough for them, however the draw they have may be a crucial point in final reckoning.

Kerry scrape into 4th spot on 6 points and need to win away to Monaghan and home to Down and even then would probably not make a final, BUT and its a big fecking but, if Cork and Down lose next time out we could leap frog over both of them into 2nd if we beat the Farney boys, its a long shot but scoring difference could come into.

Armagh in 5th place should secure their Div 1 status next time out v Galway and if they get some of the Cross men back may even rattle Cork away too.

Mayo in 6th on 3 pts will need to Beat Cork at home and then keep Monaghan at bay in the last final dogfight for survival.

Monaghan in 7th on 2 points have home advantage in their last 2 games but will be up against it in both against Kerry and Mayo. But they have played well in the league and deserve something out of it.

Galway bring up the rear but look doomed, tried hard against Cork but could not get anything out of it. hard to see them getting anything out of a trip to Armagh in a few weeks, and if Dublin are qualified , they may have a chance if they face a weakened Dublin in the last game but by then 2 points will be way too late.

Anyway its interesting and all to play for yet

[western exile]

Although Kerry or Down mathematically can still make the final, realistically it is unlikely as it is out of their hands. Dublin and Cork are in the driving seat and are unlikely to slip up.  12 points is the magic number that would guarantee a final place. Dublin are currently on 10 so only need one more win from two games against Down and Galway. I think they will struggle to beat Down but should pick up 2 points from Galway.
Cork are on 8 points with two relegation candidates, Mayo (away) and Armagh (home), to come. If they have shown any weakness so far it has been on away trips so Mayo might have a chance there. But if Kerry or Down fail to win both their remaining games them 10 points could still be enough for Cork.
For an unlikely final place, Down must win both their remaining games away in Croke Park and Killarney, and hope that either Dublin slip up (v Galway) or Cork lose to Mayo or Armagh.
Kerry need to win both games and hope Cork lose both theirs.

At the other end, Galway are almost certainly relegated as their only hope is that 4 other unlikely results have to go their way as well as themselves winning both their games by huge margins. Not going to happen.
So it is between Armagh, Mayo, or Monaghan to join them in division two.
Armagh are favorites to survive, as Mayo and Monaghan are below them and must play each other in the last game, but they would need one more win to be sure of it.
It could be decided next day out if  Mayo beat Cork and Monaghan lose to Kerry, but it is increasing looking like that game at Inniskeen on the last day will be the relegation decider.

[Farrandeelin]

I would have thought Mayo would be favourites to go down.

I hope this prediction turns out to be wrong I really do!!! 

[Maguire01]

We like leaving these things to the last day!

[armaghniac]

but it is increasing looking like that game at Inniskeen on the last day will be the relegation decider.

A draw woudn't do Monaghan, or rather it would "do" Monaghan, while Mayo would be happy enough. 

Armagh really need to beat Galway, which they probably will, after causing apprehension to their faithful supporters.

[Maguire01]

but it is increasing looking like that game at Inniskeen on the last day will be the relegation decider.

A draw woudn't do Monaghan, or rather it would "do" Monaghan, while Mayo would be happy enough. 

A draw could do Monaghan if Mayo lost to Cork and Monaghan drew with Kerry. Depending on how much Mayo lost by.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Right, now we know that Mayo are safe on five points. But can someone clarify for definite:

1) how relegation is decided if two teams finish on the same number of points

2) how relegation is decided if three teams finish on the same number of points and they have each won one and lost one in the three way head to head (if head to head is at all relevant).

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Right, now we know that Mayo are safe on five points. But can someone clarify for definite:

1) how relegation is decided if two teams finish on the same number of points

2) how relegation is decided if three teams finish on the same number of points and they have each won one and lost one in the three way head to head (if head to head is at all relevant).

1) Head to head

2) If 3 teams finish level, placings are decided by score difference.


If Monaghan win and turn round a 10 points scoring difference on us, and Galway don't beat Dublin by 10 more points than Monaghan beat Mayo by, then Monaghan would stay up.

If Monaghan don't win and Galway do, then Armagh are down unless they draw with or beat Cork.

If Galway don't win, then Monaghan are down and Armagh survive no matter what Monaghan or Armagh do.

A draw or win in Cork and Armagh surivive while Monaghan and Galway are relegated (hugely unlikely).

[Cosmo Kramer]

Thanks Tacadoir. So, as things stand nobody is definitely relegated - makes for an interesting last day but it all hangs on the Galway v Dublin game really, only a Galway win can save either themselves or Monaghan it would seem.

[furboot]

fyi - an interesting look at all the possible outcomes and permutations on http://www.clubmayo.ie/454.php

[Maguire01]

So, all to play for on the last day!

I was just wondering what people think of the way promotion and relegation is decided when teams are level on points. Personally, I think that the head-to-head element is inherently wrong for a 'league' competition and brings in an element of 'knock-out'. It means a team can have a superior scoring difference of maybe 10 or 20 points, but go down because another team beat them in one game. The idea of a league is based on performance over a number of games, not one random game. It doesn't make much sense to me.

Similarly, they're talking next year about bringing back league semi-finals. This means that a team who finishes fourth after 7 games can 'win' the league. Again, I don't think this makes any sense.

[Maguire01]

And so we have it. Monaghan relegated despite having 4 points scoring difference over Armagh. Similarly at the top of the table, Kerry lose out on a final spot even though they have a 6 point scoring difference over Cork.

[ross4life]

Don't agree with this head 2 head stuff to decide promotion/league final,relegation..that's fine if the teams played home & away but the fairness thing to do would be to have play off games.