OVER-RATED or under-rated you decide?

[Handball Ace]

You can only beat or be beaten by whats put in front of you

True, but what point are you making?

My point was that Tyrone were weakened due to tragic circumstances, and that Fermanagh shot their bolt against an over cocky Armagh and having made more ground than other team in their history, they understandably buckled with an All Ireland in sight.

Had Tyrone been their usual forceful selves, or Armagh not taken Fermanagh for granted, Mayo wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of being in that All Ireland final. They showed by their performance in the final that they weren't good enough for that level anyway, this is indisputable.

Fast forward two years and when Mayo again get mauled in an All Ireland, the question has to be asked again: how did they get here?

The answer is that they got a handy run again. By pure fluke, they didn't meet a genuine contender until the final (if you think Dublin or Laois were good enough to win an AI lst year then you are deluded).

Mayo are the luckiest team in Ireland. I'm not anti-Mayo or anything, I have a lot of friends from there and they're the soundest lads you could meet, but they're not good enough to win an AI, or to even put it up to one of the "Big Three", with the current side.

[Bensars]

The fact that Brian McGuigan never got an all-star 2005 shows that he is under-rated, and even until tyrone lost him last year people never really appreciated how important he was to the side, he is the key player.  Declan Mc Crossan is also under-rated.  Hes only 27odd and pulled out of tyrone panel 2 years ago to 'build a house' just after he got married.  He lives outside strabane and still plays away for Owen Roes.  Not sure why there has never been talk of him coming back, maybe he just doesnt want to!  Very stylish left footer!

The Moustache .   Definitatley not under rated. He was over rated for years

[stephenite]

You can only beat or be beaten by whats put in front of you

True, but what point are you making?

My point was that Tyrone were weakened due to tragic circumstances, and that Fermanagh shot their bolt against an over cocky Armagh and having made more ground than other team in their history, they understandably buckled with an All Ireland in sight.

Had Tyrone been their usual forceful selves, or Armagh not taken Fermanagh for granted, Mayo wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of being in that All Ireland final. They showed by their performance in the final that they weren't good enough for that level anyway, this is indisputable.

Fast forward two years and when Mayo again get mauled in an All Ireland, the question has to be asked again: how did they get here?

The answer is that they got a handy run again. By pure fluke, they didn't meet a genuine contender until the final (if you think Dublin or Laois were good enough to win an AI lst year then you are deluded).

Mayo are the luckiest team in Ireland. I'm not anti-Mayo or anything, I have a lot of friends from there and they're the soundest lads you could meet, but they're not good enough to win an AI, or to even put it up to one of the "Big Three", with the current side.

You make some fair points, and I'd agree that neither Dublin or Laois were good enough last season. However, if you take all competitions into account over the last 4-5 years (as some journo did a few months back ) I think, and I'm recalling from memory, so I could be wrong, that Mayo were the 3rd most consistent team in the country. Maybe someone else has that article saved somewhere and can confirm

Who are the current 'Big Three' in your view, I don't think Armagh fit into that category anymore. Kerry/Tyrone are the top two I'd say with a group of about 5 or 6 below them in the pecking order

[muppet]

Plus, mayo 2003 (when they best an understandably weak tyrone, and then stumbled past star struck fermanagh before getting hammered) and 2005 (beat the pretty boys of Laois and Dublin, before getting destroyed) were the weakest team to make an All Ireland in living memory, so i doubt that holds water

Handball Ace I'd say you overrate your own memory given that it was 2004 and 2006.

[Uladh]

Underrated - joe mcmahon, fergal doherty, alan molloy, paul mcgrane, anthony forde, anthony moyles, aaron hoey, barry cahill, johnny doyle, diarmaid kinsella, joe higgins, paul barden, diarmaid blake, brendan egan, wj padden, marc o'se, muiris gavin,

overrated - liam hinphy, kevin mcgourty, benny coulter, francie, seanie johnson, dick clerkin, phil jordan, con gormley, brendan devanny, paddy keenan, joe sheridan, alan brogan, the laois forward division, joe bergin, conor mortimer, kieran donaghy, steven lucey.

[tieroan]

  How can anyone say Conor Gormley or Phillip Jordan are over rated? Gormley for me is the best defender in Ulster. He can man mark, mark space, hit, score and intimidate. He was sadly missed last year for Tyrone and i think he may well have gotten voted Club player ofthe year the previous two years as well. Phillip Jordan, along with Thomas O Se has been the best half back in Ireland over this past four years and statistic prove that his man rarely has an impact on the game. Both him an Gormley complement other. IMO both men are in Tyrones top five most influential players.

[Star Spangler]

Jordan could have bother holding his place this year if Dermy Carlin has anything to do with it.

[Uladh]

"Phillip Jordan, along with Thomas O Se has been the best half back in Ireland over this past four years"

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but personally i prefer defenders who can actually mark their man and tackle... like tomas o'se.

[stephenite]

Underrated - joe mcmahon, fergal doherty, alan molloy, paul mcgrane, anthony forde, anthony moyles, aaron hoey, barry cahill, johnny doyle, diarmaid kinsella, joe higgins, paul barden, diarmaid blake, brendan egan, wj padden, marc o'se, muiris gavin,

overrated - liam hinphy, kevin mcgourty, benny coulter, francie, seanie johnson, dick clerkin, phil jordan, con gormley, brendan devanny, paddy keenan, joe sheridan, alan brogan, the laois forward division, joe bergin, conor mortimer, kieran donaghy, steven lucey.

Would agree, bar one, Alan Brogan overated ? Dunno, one of the best forwards in the country. If we'd a transfer system he'd be first in my list for Mayo

[bennydorano]

Defintley wouldn't have Gormley in the overrated section.  He seems to have returned from injury in super thug mode mind you.

[nrico2006]

overrated - liam hinphy, kevin mcgourty, benny coulter, francie, seanie johnson, dick clerkin, phil jordan, con gormley, brendan devanny, paddy keenan, joe sheridan, alan brogan, the laois forward division, joe bergin, conor mortimer, kieran donaghy, steven lucey.

Agree with ur Under-rated players Uladh, but a few in the above section I dont.  Liam Hinphey is definitely over-rated as such, but I didnt think many people actually rated him.  He rarely kicks, the odd punt maybe, and plays a hand-passing game only really.  Benny Coulter is not over-rated.  He is quality.  But I think people forget about the terrible side he plays in, which offer him little or no support.

Kevin Mc Gourty is a slabber really.  Never achieved anything significant and is an average club player who rarely scores when he plays for Antrim.  He is just handy spouting material for the Irish News when they have a page to fill, due to his location.  Havent seen much of Joe Sheridan, and Devenney on his day is as good as there is about, no matter how big a p***k he is.  Conor Gormley and Jordan are quality.  Francie does his job in his way, not the most skillful but very effective.  Donaghey is a one hit wonder, played well against the might of longford, then did well against armagh and mayo.  See what he does this year, I think he will do very little.  Mortimer is getting alot of stick, but the man is a quality player who gets the scores.

Alan Brogan looks good at times and terrible at other times.  But has the potential.  And seanie johnson has only really delivered a good inter-county performance against the might of down last summer.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Over rated: Nicholas Walsh definitely

David Brady - as one hack said "if he could turn around quick enough he'd ride himself"

Dessie Dolan

Sean Og O hAilpin

Ah fcuk it, I won't bother.

Under rated outside Westmeath: Damien Healy, Flan

Over rated inside Westmeath: Flan

[bcarrier]

Overrated: Mickey Walsh / B. Coulter
Underrated: Barry Breen / Gary Mason

[Handball Ace]

Who are the current 'Big Three' in your view, I don't think Armagh fit into that category anymore

Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh in that order. I'm not a fan of any of the three teams but they know what i takes to win on the biggest stage of all, to grind out results... That's the most important quality of all imho

Can the same be said about Mayo, Laois, Dublin or whoever else? Definitely not.

The Dubs could make the breakthrough with a better manager and another top class forward. Mayo aren't that far way either, as for the likes of Cork, Donegal, Laois etc - not in the same league.

It would be very dangerous to disregard Armagh just because some of their players are pushing on a bit.

[nrico2006]

I would put my house on the winners coming from Tyrone or Kerry providing both teams have their full side out.  Armagh will still be there or thereabouts, very tough side who tend to grind out victories.  But with age and injuries to Clarke and Mallon, they will fall short.  Marsden is a good boost for Armagh, but how much will he bring with him.   Mayo, Donegal, Dublin and Cork are THE only other possible all ireland winners.