Coulter or Clarke?

[The Worker]

Il settle for both of them in the one team 

[EIREANNACH]

chalk or cheese

[saffron sam2]

I am not one given to hyperbole, but Martin Clarke is the best footballer I have ever seen.

I started a thread to say as much on a previous incarnation of this board when I watched him kick 1-16 out of 2-19 in a colleges' match at the tender age of 15.

[Jinxy]

I am not one given to hyperbole, but Martin Clarke is the best footballer I have ever seen.

I started a thread to say as much on a previous incarnation of this board when I watched him kick 1-16 out of 2-19 in a colleges' match at the tender age of 15.

Colleges football is full of stories of exceptional individual performances such as Michael Meehan and Declan O'Sullivan when Jarlaths played Coláiste na Sceilge.
A lot of the exceptional performances were by players who never went on to senior intercounty level.

[saffron sam2]

I am not one given to hyperbole, but Martin Clarke is the best footballer I have ever seen.

I started a thread to say as much on a previous incarnation of this board when I watched him kick 1-16 out of 2-19 in a colleges' match at the tender age of 15.

Colleges football is full of stories of exceptional individual performances such as Michael Meehan and Declan O'Sullivan when Jarlaths played Coláiste na Sceilge.
A lot of the exceptional performances were by players who never went on to senior intercounty level.

Like the two individuals you name.

[Jinxy]

There was supposed to be a 'however' in there.
I remember in particular hearing about some guy that was the best player on Jarlaths team when Donnellan and Joyce were there.
Don't think he ever played senior county football.

[saffron sam2]

John 'Scan' Concannon.

[tyroneStatto]

on other threads people didnt think clarke was that good on saturday. i thought he was absolutely outstanding. he's a big game player and he produced the goods when it counted. i wish tyrone had him.

[tyroneStatto]

in fact it could be a bit like tadgh kennelly last year. just stretching his legs up until the 1/4 finals and then...

[RadioGAAGAA]

Before he went to Oz he wasn't one to hold onto the ball unnecessarily, preferring to let the ball do the work. Since he went there he really has learned the art of avoiding a tackle at all counts.

Erm....

The best way to go around a man is without the ball... then he cannot tackle ye.


I think if it were a case of riding the tackle putting him through on goal, then he would - but since he is normally much farther from goal than that... he takes the sensible option.

[nrico2006]

I am not one given to hyperbole, but Martin Clarke is the best footballer I have ever seen.

I started a thread to say as much on a previous incarnation of this board when I watched him kick 1-16 out of 2-19 in a colleges' match at the tender age of 15.

Good scoring, but you seem to be giving him credit for scoring that as a 15 year old, it was College football so scoring that as a 15 year old is pretty much to be expected. 

I don't buy into all this hype either, Clarke didn't exactly set the Ulster Championship alive and didn't get a sniff against Tyrone when Down were beat.  As for the comparisons with McDonald, well CMD usually was good for a few points from play but one thing Clarke isn't doing is scoring regularly from play, pretty poor in that regard to be honest. 

[bcarrier]

What Clarke seems to give Down is a bit of " shape" that has been lacking in recent seasons. He is also offers a better free taking option ( Downs achilles heal ) than  we have had over last few years. It isnt just about him though there are a lot of pieces to Down's revival. Players like Rafferty, Garvey and Hughes have been deliverying under the radar for a while the improved defensive system and overall work rate , the emergence of King, fitness of Ambrose and Benny ,  the return of Rooney, the promising ( but not completely taken as a given) performances of Gordon and McKernan in the centre of defence, and Poland and mccomiskey up front are other factors.   

I think Coulter has had his most effective season ever (no doubt assisted by improved quality around him and improved fitness). It is a bit of a no-go area for some of my county colleagues but I dont just buy into Coulter hereto being one of the best ( if not the best ) in the country. He was certainly one of best minors I ever saw but his county lifetime scoring record up to 2010 from gaainfo doesnt point to a lad who fulfilled that potential. Maybe this year he will.

2001
   6 games played   Total Scored: 1-0

11.02.2001   NFL, Div 2   Longford   12         Match Details
25.02.2001   NFL, Div 2   Carlow   12         Match Details
08.04.2001   NFL, Div 2   Tipperary   12         Match Details
22.04.2001   NFL, Div 2   Westmeath   12         Match Details
27.05.2001   Ulster SFC   Cavan   14         Match Details
09.06.2001   Football Qualifiers   Armagh   14   1-0      Match Details

2002
   5 games played   Total Scored: 0-8

03.02.2002   NFL, Div 1   Fermanagh   11   0-1      Match Details
10.02.2002   NFL, Div 1   Mayo   8         Match Details
17.02.2002   NFL, Div 1   Sligo   11   0-3      Match Details
02.06.2002   Ulster SFC   Donegal   12   0-1      Match Details
08.06.2002   Football Qualifiers   Longford   8   0-3      Match Details

2003
   11 games played   Total Scored: 3-10

12.01.2003   Dr McKenna Cup   Armagh   14   0-2      Match Details
02.02.2003   NFL, Div 1   Fermanagh   14   0-1      Match Details
09.02.2003   NFL, Div 1   Mayo   14   0-1      Match Details
16.02.2003   NFL, Div 1   Sligo   9   1-1      Match Details
02.03.2003   NFL, Div 1   Laois   12   1-0      Match Details
09.03.2003   NFL, Div 1   Cavan   12   0-1      Match Details
08.06.2003   Ulster SFC   Monaghan   11         Match Details
22.06.2003   Ulster SFC   Fermanagh   11   0-1      Match Details
13.07.2003   Ulster SFC   Tyrone   12   1-1      Match Details
20.07.2003   Ulster SFC   Tyrone   12   0-1      Match Details
26.07.2003   Football Qualifiers   Donegal   12   0-1      Match Details

2004
   16 games played   Total Scored: 6-26

04.01.2004   Dr McKenna Cup   Monaghan   13         Match Details
11.01.2004   Dr McKenna Cup   St Mary's, Belfast   16   0-2   for B Ward   Match Details
18.01.2004   Dr McKenna Cup   Armagh   8   0-2      Match Details
25.01.2004   Dr McKenna Cup   Donegal   8   0-3   0-1 f    Match Details
01.02.2004   NFL, Div 2   Tipperary   8   1-3      Match Details
08.02.2004   NFL, Div 2   Wicklow   8         Match Details
15.02.2004   NFL, Div 2   Derry   9   1-0      Match Details
07.03.2004   NFL, Div 2   Antrim   8         Match Details
14.03.2004   NFL, Div 2   Waterford   8   0-3      Match Details
21.03.2004   NFL, Div 2   Louth   8   0-3      Match Details
18.04.2004   NFL, Div 2   Donegal   14   0-1      Match Details
02.05.2004   NFL, Div 2   Offaly   11   0-1      Match Details
16.05.2004   Ulster SFC   Cavan   8   1-2      Match Details
30.05.2004   Ulster SFC   Cavan   13   2-2      Match Details
12.06.2004   Football Qualifiers   Carlow   13   1-3      Match Details
03.07.2004   Football Qualifiers   Tyrone   13   0-1      Match Details

2005
   8 games played   Total Scored: 4-23

06.03.2005   NFL, Div 1   Kildare   16   0-4   for A Molloy   Match Details
13.03.2005   NFL, Div 1   Armagh   12   0-2      Match Details
20.03.2005   NFL, Div 1   Wexford   13   0-4      Match Details
27.03.2005   NFL, Div 1   Laois   11   0-3      Match Details
03.04.2005   NFL, Div 1   Galway   14   2-3      Match Details
22.05.2005   Ulster SFC   Tyrone   14   1-1      Match Details
18.06.2005   Football Qualifiers   Fermanagh   14   0-4      Match Details
03.07.2005   Football Qualifiers   Derry   14   1-2      Match Details

2006
   8 games played   Total Scored: 7-5

08.01.2006   Dr McKenna Cup   Tyrone   14   0-1      Match Details
22.01.2006   Dr McKenna Cup   St Mary's, Belfast   14   3-2      Match Details
05.02.2006   NFL, Div 1   Meath   14   0-1      Match Details
12.02.2006   NFL, Div 1   Kildare   14   1-0      Match Details
12.03.2006   NFL, Div 1   Laois   14   1-0      Match Details
19.03.2006   NFL, Div 1   Armagh   14   1-0      Match Details
07.05.2006   Ulster SFC   Cavan   14   1-0      Match Details
04.06.2006   Ulster SFC   Donegal   14   0-1      Match Details

2007
   11 games played   Total Scored: 2-8

04.02.2007   NFL, Div 1   Louth   8   0-1      Match Details
11.02.2007   NFL, Div 1   Kildare   8   0-1      Match Details
25.02.2007   NFL, Div 1   Westmeath   8         Match Details
11.03.2007   NFL, Div 1   Laois   17   0-1   for Johnson (ht)   Match Details
25.03.2007   NFL, Div 1   Armagh   8         Match Details
01.04.2007   NFL, Div 1   Derry   15   0-2      Match Details
08.04.2007   NFL, Div 1   Galway   15   1-1      Match Details
13.05.2007   Ulster SFC   Cavan   15   1-1      Match Details
20.05.2007   Ulster SFC   Cavan   15         Match Details
10.06.2007   Ulster SFC   Monaghan   15         Match Details
07.07.2007   Football Qualifiers   Meath   12   0-1      Match Details

2008
   13 games played   Total Scored: 4-16

02.02.2008   NFL, Div 3   Sligo   18      for K McKernan   Match Details
17.02.2008   NFL, Div 3   Louth   19      for C McGee 49mins)   Match Details
02.03.2008   NFL, Div 3   Wexford   17      for Clarke   Match Details
15.03.2008   NFL, Div 3   Longford   14   0-6      Match Details
06.04.2008   NFL, Div 3   Leitrim   15   1-0      Match Details
13.04.2008   NFL, Div 3   Limerick   15   0-1      Match Details
20.04.2008   NFL, Div 3   Fermanagh   15   0-1      Match Details
08.06.2008   Ulster SFC   Tyrone   15   1-0      Match Details
14.06.2008   Ulster SFC   Tyrone   15   1-3      Match Details
29.06.2008   Ulster SFC   Armagh   14         Match Details
19.07.2008   Football Qualifiers   Offaly   15   0-1      Match Details
26.07.2008   Football Qualifiers   Laois   14   1-2      Match Details
02.08.2008   Football Qualifiers   Wexford   15   0-2      Match Details

2009
   10 games played   Total Scored: 0-19

04.01.2009   Dr McKenna Cup   St Mary's, Belfast   17      for M Magee   Match Details
11.01.2009   Dr McKenna Cup   Tyrone   16   0-2   for C Magee   Match Details
14.01.2009   Dr McKenna Cup   Monaghan   15   0-1      Match Details
22.01.2009   Dr McKenna Cup   QUB   15   0-2      Match Details
01.02.2009   NFL, Div 3   Tipperary   15   0-3      Match Details
14.02.2009   NFL, Div 3   Louth   15   0-4      Match Details
07.03.2009   NFL, Div 3   Cavan   19      for B McArdle   Match Details
22.03.2009   NFL, Div 3   Limerick   17   0-1   for Ireland   Match Details
28.03.2009   NFL, Div 3   Offaly   15   0-4      Match Details
12.04.2009   NFL, Div 3   Roscommon   13   0-2   

[paddypastit]

I'm with RadioGAAGAA and the wobbler here. Clarke is a unique and outstanding talent.  Greg Blayneyt to me was THE definition of a playmaking center forward and there are only three others that stand out in my mind as being of a similar ilk since - each with their own variation and personal style - Trevor Giles, Brian McGuigan and Declan O'Sullivan.  Their contributions were all about intelligence, an awareness of space, seeing the pass and an unerring ability to deliver it - right ball, right man, right place, right time. McDonald was an outstanding talent and worth paying to see alone but one piece missing in his armoury was a the team piece.  While he played some killer balls, he was never the team fisrst, me second link man that all the others were. While we are lookinbg at him also as a benchmark, it is worth noting that in his early years McD was an infuriatingly one eyed 50/50 corner forward that could waste any gods amount of ball driving up blind alleys and failing to score from worse than impossible angles - the semblance of maturity came much later.  What Clarke has though over all those other guys is movement. They ploughed in the CHF 'channel' and dropped off into MF to pickup the ball and play others in wheras as he has this abilty to pop up anywhere and open out completely new angles of attack.  For me this guy is a genius emerging before our eyes and it will be some time before someone figures how to mark him.

Coulter on the other hand is explosive, high impact and capable of the most intense brilliance at speed in tight places. I thougth he was positiively ordinary last Saturday until the game was out of sight but it must be great to have the propspect of him being better in the next game to look forward to

[lynchbhoy]

I am not one given to hyperbole, but Martin Clarke is the best footballer I have ever seen.

I started a thread to say as much on a previous incarnation of this board when I watched him kick 1-16 out of 2-19 in a colleges' match at the tender age of 15.

while I sometimes question if you know what a good footballer looks like - I fully agree here !

Clarke is different to mcdonald who was a fantastic long range foot passer but more often than not gave it away or while the pass was good , it ended up with someone doing nothing.
Clarke on saturday remnded me of henrik larsson who when the rest of the beaten celtic team had given up against boavista and twoother games on their run to uefa cup final in 2003 - larsson took the game by the scruff of the neck and played them on his own and dragged his team back into it and got them playing and then winning.
Clarke did the simple things, its a simple game. The clever footballing ability he demonstrated and that he was omnipresent throughout the field wherever he was needed on saturday impressed me greatly in the first full live game I have seen him play since he was a minor (and I dont recall him as a minor though I did see some of the games he played in).
Intelligent, pass and move and score creator as much as score taker.
Kildare will prob deploy a man marker to shadow him but while they will undoubtedly try to foul him out of the game (well I would) the aussie rules training will mitigate aganst this !
Will be a very interesting game indeed ! Two form teams who most likely wont be playing this time next year so must take their chance.

[boojangles]

While he still can't be mentioned in the same breath as Mc Guigan, Giles or O Sullivan yet he is definitely an exciting talent. The really important thing which I think he posesses (which alot of Inter County footballers don't) is that he is never afraid to do the simple thing with the ball. Too may players are always looking for the killer ball. Clarke seems to bide his time playing the link man to great effect while never giving the ball away.

I know its not related to the thread but I was massively impressed with the Down centre half last week, Kevin Mc Kiernan. MOTM for me easy.