Kildare and mc Genney bending the rules??

[Family guy]

So what is the rules with inter county teams not allowed to play in the months of december??I know Kildare are in New York on a team bonding week and are playing a Ny select tomorrow in a game,not that it will be much of a game 

[The Konica]

I'd be surprised if any county team isn't doing some training.

[The Konica]

Here's two sides of the debate by two supposedly smart people ....



ARGUMENT 1


Fitness guru McGurn insists GAA 'missing point' on burnout

By Donnchadh Boyle
Thursday October 29 2009

FITNESS guru Mike McGurn has hit out at the GAA's close-season and claims authorities are "missing the point" when it comes to the issue of burnout.

The hugely respected Belfast man, who has worked with the likes of the Irish rugby team, rugby league side St Helen's, the Ospreys and former boxing World champion Bernard Dunne, believes the current schedule -- which sees collective training ruled out in November and December -- means players are at a greater risk to injury.

McGurn, who has also recently agreed to join Paddy O'Rourke's backroom team with Armagh's senior footballers, also feels that burnout in young players can be prevented by improving lines of communication.

"I think they're missing the point here. They're on about player burnout, if you train for two hours you're going to get burned out. My training sessions take 45 minutes maximum. You get in, you rip the place apart and get out again. If you're doing two 45-minute sessions a week you won't burn out, ever," said McGurn, speaking yesterday at the launch of Kinetica's new range of sports nutritional products.

"It's when you bring them in and do the laps and do two and half hours, which is happening, you burn out. Clubs and teams have got to talk. If you've got a player who is playing colleges, club and county, coaches should get around and say, 'You are the player, what's best for you?'

"You have him for an hour on a Tuesday, we'll take him for half on hour on a Thursday and he plays for his club on Sunday. But people don't talk. If you don't talk you don't know so the player gets caught in the middle."

McGurn had a similar row with the IRFU in 2002 when he picked up a suspension after he made public his dissatisfaction with the brevity of the three-week pre-season that existed at the time. However, he maintains that the stand had to be taken on the grounds of player welfare.

"But I don't regret it because it led to us getting a 12-week pre-season and we haven't looked back since.

"They're putting these boys out to battle with McKenna Cup, National League and Championship from January to September which is nine months, on a very limited pre-season.

"If you want to keep these guys healthy and on the pitch, you need to increase that time. Your pre-season is the time where you keep the players strong, fit and healthy and prevent them getting injured.

"The more money you put in the bank in pre-season, the more you take out during the season."

- Donnchadh Boyle

Irish Independent




ARGUMENT 2

Hartmann rows in behind ban on training

IAN O'RIORDAN

CLOSE SEASON: THE CONTENTIOUS ban on closed-season training has been fully endorsed by Limerick sports injury specialist Ger Hartmann, who is now working with several intercounty teams to help them maximise the current eight-week period where all collective training is prohibited.

One of the teams Hartmann is advising are All-Ireland football champions Kerry, even though their manager, Jack O'Connor, is not entirely supportive of the ban, nor indeed is he the only one.

Hartmann, however, has found himself in unprecedented demand in recent weeks as more county managers begin to embrace the closed season rather than deny it, and says the GAA are doing their players an enormous favour by insisting the ban remains in place – and saving money in the process.

"The rigours of the season catch up with everyone, and this is the time of year to take stock," says Hartmann, who now works out of the University of Limerick, and whose client base is still mainly international athletes.

"The biggest benefits really are for those playing intercounty, and also Sigerson and club. It's about a mental break as much as a physical break. Burn out results from overdoing it both mental and physically. Players can only commit so much every year. They only have so much appetite to come to squad sessions anyway.

"But nearly every GAA player we see has imbalances around the hip, pelvic, or lumber area or carrying strains, not just from this past season, but maybe the season before as well.

"This is a fantastic opportunity for county managers, or individuals, to address that. And I think more managers are asking the question now, 'can they prevent injuries for next year?' Kerry certainly had an inordinate amount of injuries this season.

"The other point is that while most counties do have a very good medical back-up, it typically ends with the end of the championship. That's the end of the medical staff providing their services, until the season starts again. So at the very time when athletes are carrying knocks and really need the attention there's no service given by the county board.

"By giving back to the players at this time of year, they can save themselves an awful lot of money. Because the amount spent on trying to get players right during the season when they're in seven or eight sessions a week to get ready for a semi-final or whatever is huge. The acute injuries will always happen, like the guy who goes over on his ankle, but a lot of the chronic, over-use injuries can only be prevented now. It saves everyone in the long term."

After doing the closed season induction course in Kerry, Hartmann will next be advising the Dublin, Clare and Waterford hurlers, with similar requests from the Donegal and Galway footballers. His programme is based on two core exercise sessions a week, and two aerobic sessions.

"That could be jogging, or on the bike, or whatever," he explains. "As long as their cardio-vascular system is in use. You don't want to come to January and need to re-start the aerobic fitness from nothing.

"It's all about putting together the foundation work so that they won't break down when they do the specificity work in January, February, March. And it can be a bit of fun as well, whether players do it on their own at home, or with a couple of club-mates. Because there are so many imbalances, flexibility problems, in the GAA. I see lots of players who can't touch their toes.

"It also negates the drink culture that is still there as well in the off-season, which I believe still needs to be fully addressed. This is about the GAA giving something back to the players. Talk to the players of the 1970s and ask how many of them have had hip or knee operations. This is a chance, a window, where players can focus on the things that can help prevent all that, to stay healthy, and look after their bodies."

Yet Hartmann's view on the closed season is not supported by everyone in the sport injury and fitness business. Recently, Mike McGurn, the former Irish rugby team strength and conditioning coach who now works with the Armagh, criticised the ban that runs until January 1st, citing the lack of player supervision as "more dangerous than helpful".

"I read what Mike McGurn said, and in principle he is right," adds Hartmann. "No one should be left alone to their own devices, stand still, or take two or three months off. And then come off the Christmas turkey and pints and play a game.

"But if it's executed properly, and administered with people who are professionally sound, the benefits are enormous.

"In a squad of 35, you'd have at least 10 players that are carrying injuries. If they don't work on those injuries now, they will carry over again until next year."

Hartmann, by the way, hinted that Kerry's Darragh Ó Sé, if he trains individually over the winter, would likely be "50-50" to be back next year.


****************************************************************************


Who is right?

[mountainboii]

Hartmann's theory is grand for the likes of Kerry, who were playing until the end of September and probably need a couple of months off around now, but it doesn't seem to take account for the majority of counties who have been out of action from the middle of July.

[INDIANA]

Its a joke when it doesn't address the amount of players on sigerson and fitzgibbon panels who end up playing 12months of the year all round. Until then its a complete waste of time.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Who is this "mc Genney" lad?

Never heard of him

[Celt_Man]

I believe the ban is even worse for Minor County sides, I heard somewhere that their collective training ban last until March.... Could that be right?

[Rossfan]

It was true for 2009 anyway and then the Connacht MFL started a few days later .

[Celt_Man]

It was true for 2009 anyway and then the Connacht MFL started a few days later .

Madness.... sheer bloody madness...  So if everyone is going by the rules you don't do anything until the ban is over than you are expect to organise a team/panel for the MFL a few days later!!!

[moysider]

It was true for 2009 anyway and then the Connacht MFL started a few days later .

Madness.... sheer bloody madness...  So if everyone is going by the rules you don't do anything until the ban is over than you are expect to organise a team/panel for the MFL a few days later!!!

Apparently yes. It happened last year. Only thing a manager can do is check out the Colleges' form. New young lads quickly develop over the winter in training and with good matches. But if you take Mayo for instance this year so far. There is no minor manager in place yet and nobody has been attending games. If who we think will get the job gets it, he will be taking over a generation of players next March he ll have never seen play.

[lynchbhoy]

I see this was a big article in one of the sunday papers agai - are the 'journo-hacks' still trawling on here for their ideas ?

anyhow I dont see much wrong with what Kildare have done. A trip away and how serious could that game be !

The comments on the sigerson players never getting a break is true and worries me.
One young lad fromour club went over on his ankle last tues night but still played midfield in our clubs u21 Dub semi final. We lost  by 3pts and the lad wasnt his normal dominating self - only to be expected.
However I was talking to him and discussing his rest period for the next couple of months and what he was going to be doing in that time - when he said that he wont get a break, the college he is in have given him a grant (€1,000) so he feels obliged to play for them.
I have since heard more about the strokes colleges get up to to keep young fellas playing when they need a rest and am not surprised that so many young guys get inj in the summer and seem to break down.
This is the cause of it.
While the two arguments above are very interesting, we all know that everything can only be done in moderation with extra effort only working occassionally and cannot be sustained.
Certainly training should be kept up over the winter months at least individually to retain fitness etc but the intensity of games for a couple of months should be avoided to allow the body to recover.
imo.

[Winnie Peg]

I see this was a big article in one of the sunday papers agai - are the 'journo-hacks' still trawling on here for their ideas ?

anyhow I dont see much wrong with what Kildare have done. A trip away and how serious could that game be !

The comments on the sigerson players never getting a break is true and worries me.
One young lad fromour club went over on his ankle last tues night but still played midfield in our clubs u21 Dub semi final. We lost  by 3pts and the lad wasnt his normal dominating self - only to be expected.However I was talking to him and discussing his rest period for the next couple of months and what he was going to be doing in that time - when he said that he wont get a break, the college he is in have given him a grant (€1,000) so he feels obliged to play for them.
I have since heard more about the strokes colleges get up to to keep young fellas playing when they need a rest and am not surprised that so many young guys get inj in the summer and seem to break down.
This is the cause of it.
While the two arguments above are very interesting, we all know that everything can only be done in moderation with extra effort only working occassionally and cannot be sustained.
Certainly training should be kept up over the winter months at least individually to retain fitness etc but the intensity of games for a couple of months should be avoided to allow the body to recover.
imo.

Surely the club who insisted on the young lad playing despite going over on his ankle had their own interests ast heart and not the well being of the young lad.

[lynchbhoy]

I see this was a big article in one of the sunday papers agai - are the 'journo-hacks' still trawling on here for their ideas ?

anyhow I dont see much wrong with what Kildare have done. A trip away and how serious could that game be !

The comments on the sigerson players never getting a break is true and worries me.
One young lad from our club went over on his ankle last tues night but still played midfield in our clubs u21 Dub semi final. We lost  by 3pts and the lad wasnt his normal dominating self - only to be expected.However I was talking to him and discussing his rest period for the next couple of months and what he was going to be doing in that time - when he said that he wont get a break, the college he is in have given him a grant (€1,000) so he feels obliged to play for them.
I have since heard more about the strokes colleges get up to to keep young fellas playing when they need a rest and am not surprised that so many young guys get inj in the summer and seem to break down.
This is the cause of it.
While the two arguments above are very interesting, we all know that everything can only be done in moderation with extra effort only working occassionally and cannot be sustained.
Certainly training should be kept up over the winter months at least individually to retain fitness etc but the intensity of games for a couple of months should be avoided to allow the body to recover.
imo.

Surely the club who insisted on the young lad playing despite going over on his ankle had their own interests ast heart and not the well being of the young lad.

the club didnt insist on him playing on sat- the lad himself wanted to do so. Try telling any player that he isnt going to be allowed to play and see the reaction.
While not exactly ideal, players usually try to play even if carrying an inj - esp if it is a big game like a county semi final. I did this myself when playing so expect no less from others. The decision was the lads though and if he wasnt able to play , he wouldnt have been played.
The problem now starts when he isnt able to rest to recover from this (and maybe other) injuries.

[haranguerer]

So you think he was mad keen to play for the club, despite being injured, but only plays for the college because he feels obliged? I doubt that very much. Generally at that age you want to play the whole time: If he did have an injury, the club should have checked him out and told him he wasnt fit to play. Its player welfare that the GAA are supposed to be looking after, everyone knows players will try to play, even when unfit. And that you did this when you played, so '...expect no less from others' is a silly statement: let your young superstar play with an injury now, you potentially ruin his career...

Just from a quick glance at the article for the break above, doesnt that lad still advocate at least 4 sessions a week? And that you can have a bit of craic if you do it with team mates...i.e. co. team mates?  Good break aright, of course the counties are embracing him 
Hes demonstrating exactly what McGurn is worried about, and doesnt seem to realise it.

[lynchbhoy]

So you think he was mad keen to play for the club, despite being injured, but only plays for the college because he feels obliged? I doubt that very much. Generally at that age you want to play the whole time: If he did have an injury, the club should have checked him out and told him he wasnt fit to play. Its player welfare that the GAA are supposed to be looking after, everyone knows players will try to play, even when unfit. And that you did this when you played, so '...expect no less from others' is a silly statement: let your young superstar play with an injury now, you potentially ruin his career...

Just from a quick glance at the article for the break above, doesnt that lad still advocate at least 4 sessions a week? And that you can have a bit of craic if you do it with team mates...i.e. co. team mates?  Good break aright, of course the counties are embracing him 
Hes demonstrating exactly what McGurn is worried about, and doesnt seem to realise it.

that is exactly the case - he wanted to play the semi final but said he wasnt going to be allowed to get a rest by the college as they paid him a grant ..i'm paraphrasing, but thats what he said !
I am not over the u21 team but have managed and coached the lad for a few years before this and know him well.
so unfortunately your presumptions are incorrect.
I would expect the club to get him seen to and looked after.
However the point is that colleges seem to force young lads to play even when the shoudnt.

my idea of training over the winter two months is by themselves or with the club once or twice a week - and even then by playing basketball or something similar recreational yet keeps them ticking over etc.