Wee James Is The New Down Manager

[Square Ball]

when do the nominations have to be in by?

[DownFanatic]

when do the nominations have to be in by?

Don't know. Id say a lot of clubs will be putting forward McGrath and wee James while Id expect Mark Turley will also get a few recommendations.

[WhoAreYaWhoAreYa!]

Turley is laughable

[thewobbler]

Are you saying thats easy and anyone could have done it?

Orior the golden rule is that players win games and managers lose them.


Down don't need to promote a minor manager - we need someone who eats, sleeps and breathes the nuances, tactics and temperament of senior championship football.

Down don't need an old hand to guide a young hand - I'm surely not alone in being sick at watching the last two Down management set-ups pondering switches and substitutions at length, while they each have their say and pass approval.

Down don't need to go back in time, so no Pete McGrath please. We don't need to reward Mickey Linden for being an all-time great player by putting him out of his depth as a manager. We don't need a greyhound trainer, so no John Rafferty please.


If James McCartan isn't the man, I'd put forward Jason Ryan. Whether he'd hike up from the South East is a different question.

[Mourne Rover]

Jason Ryan, a fine young manager, is from  Waterford, and getting him north for training would require either a house or a helicopter. Some counties have been prepared to take similar steps for the likes of Micko and Paudi in the past, but it is not likely that Down are in that position. While Colm O'Rourke would not have too far to travel, he would need a formidable package to tempt him away from RTE and he is probably only interested in an eventual rattle at the Meath job.

We are effectively restricted to Ulster, and Brian McIver is available and certainly worth a look, although, after his Donegal experiences, he may not wish to return to county football. Malachy O'Rourke also has the credentials, but it would be a big ask for him to walk out on his native county. It is diifficult to see how anyone from Armagh could manage Down, or vice versa.

While I can understand why Wobbler and others think Peter McGrath would be turning back the clock, back to back Ulster u21 titles suggest differently. He has also proved that he can get the best out of senior players at An Riocht and Bryansford. He stayed in the post far too long the last time, but two Sams probably entitled him to believe that he could turn things round in difficult circumstances.

The bottom line is that he has also been responsible for bringing home six of our last eight provincial championships - two each at minor, u21 and senior.

He did fall out with James McCartan in 1993, but they were able to patch things up and allow James to play on for another decade. McGrath, with the right assistants - why not including McCartan - is by no means the only option but still looks the best overall bet.

[wobbller]

  Frank Dawson,Jim Mc Corry,Mickey Linden,James McCartan,Pete Mc Grath-Any of these would do for U-21's or below but not for
the big one.

[Pangurban]

To appoint James Mc Cartan would be to fall into the same old trap, as the only CV he has is that he was a great player, and achieved some minor success at Sigerson level. I believe the appointment of James would be a very serious mistake. We need a Man with serious weight depth and experience. Having racked my brains, and considered all possible options, only two names emerge from within the County, Pete Mc Grath and P.J.Mc Gee. There simply is no other candidates worthy of consideration

[Mid Down Gael]

I think Im one of the few who is sad to see Ross leave.

By and large we had the best players from the county on the panel this year (cue Mid Down Gael's Kilcoo under - representation rant). However, we have what we have. Apart from Luke Howard and Aidan Carr we dont have any other top notch Senior Intercounty standard defenders. We have decent enough midfield and forward options but only three or four of these players showed any type of form this year.

We can critiscise Ross for implementing wrong tactics or for that matter not using tactics at all. But, at the end of the day there is only so much you can get out of tactics if you don't have the quality of player for them to be successful.

The way forward for Down I think is to abandon our outdated and unbridled all out attack system. We need to get ugly. We need a defensive system which reeks of negativity but one which will provide a solid platform. We have the attackers capable of winning games but once we sort out our achilles heel (our defence) we will be well on to road to recovery. The next new manager will need to unearth a few more intelligent defenders capable of playing to an effective system.

Who that manager is, I don't know. Personally, I would of give Ross another year with a capable right hand man and Tally in training the team again.

The usual names will be bandied about and the usual ex players and that will be talked about but the one man Id like to see in the reckoning is PJ Magee. PJ seems to be a manager that plays to his strengths. Any time Ive watched any of his teams they always seem to be tactically aware, confident on the ball and astute enough to react to in game situations.

PJ has vast experience and success in Down circles, not only at club level but colleges level as well. He is well respected and a man who I think can turn this once proud county in to a new force.

If you read all my previous posts i never mentioned Kilcoo's representation. I continually mentioned Michael Walsh, John Clarke and James Colgan who all deserved to be on the Down panel. Saying that, a team that reaches the top 4 in division one every year, winning 2 titles in 5 years,  surely deserves players getting a chance to show their worth especialy when you compare to some off the players Ross had on board.

[Mid Down Gael]

Pete McGrath seems pretty interested in the job according to this mornings Irish News.

[irunthev]

Are you saying thats easy and anyone could have done it?

Orior the golden rule is that players win games and managers lose them.


Down don't need to promote a minor manager - we need someone who eats, sleeps and breathes the nuances, tactics and temperament of senior championship football.

Down don't need an old hand to guide a young hand - I'm surely not alone in being sick at watching the last two Down management set-ups pondering switches and substitutions at length, while they each have their say and pass approval.

Down don't need to go back in time, so no Pete McGrath please. We don't need to reward Mickey Linden for being an all-time great player by putting him out of his depth as a manager. We don't need a greyhound trainer, so no John Rafferty please.


If James McCartan isn't the man, I'd put forward Jason Ryan. Whether he'd hike up from the South East is a different question.

Wexford's record this year under Jaon Ryan
From the Wexford People Newspaper Wed July22nd
In the gloom of Dr. Hye Park last Saturday afternoon where Wexford bid their championship farewell to a lowly Roscommon outfit - themselves embarrassed by a provincial semi-final mauling at the hands of Mayo - mentors and players did not need any reminding of the year they left behind.

Thirteen competitive games were played since January, but the record makes for dismal reading: 10 defeats; 1 victory; 2 draws.

Many of Wexford's league defeats bordered on the embarrassing, while they were comfortably cast aside by Kildare in the championship. In the qualifiers they struggled to defeat lowly Offaly, while a young Roscommon side ended their championship without a whimper.

Manager Ryan had the backing of the Wexford footballing public going into 2009, but it was evident as early as February that it was all not adding up, as successive heavy league defeats followed one after the other.

Wexford supporters were not just surprised, they were shocked by the results. It made no sense for the manager to be speaking about tactics and a glut of possession after each mauling, with not a positive result in sight. Something had to give, and in the end football in the county took a nosedive, with the poorest sequence of results for a long, long time in the history of the Model county.

A lot of soul-searching will go into Wexford's year, particularly their application and discipline during the course of the campaign.

There is not a single outstanding feature to look back on, and County Board officers cannot continue looking back over their shoulder to 2008. The 2009 results are what matter most and, given our dismal year, many at the top table have lots of questions to answer before delivering their review of the year that was.

   No thanks

I know Jason quite well and even last year I was wondering how he had managed to become the management sensation that he was in 2008. He's a great lad, very smart and very committed, but the real art to management is how to turn possible defeats into victories. Keeping a team winning is relatively easy in comparison. This year I think the gaps in his knowledge were exposed and exposed from quite early on. I have no doubt he will be an excellent long term prospect in management, but the notion of him taking on a big team with aspirations of glory is a non-runner for me at present. He has too much learning to do and doesn't even have the luxury of a credible playing CV to fall back on - something that might help add to his knowledge base..... i.e. that whole argument about knowing how to win etc. Give him time and he will come good, but I don't think time is something that the next Down manager would have in abundance.

[Fear Boirche]

While I can understand why Wobbler and others think Peter McGrath would be turning back the clock, back to back Ulster u21 titles suggest differently. He has also proved that he can get the best out of senior players at An Riocht and Bryansford. He stayed in the post far too long the last time, but two Sams probably entitled him to believe that he could turn things round in difficult circumstances.

The bottom line is that he has also been responsible for bringing home six of our last eight provincial championships - two each at minor, u21 and senior.

He did fall out with James McCartan in 1993, but they were able to patch things up and allow James to play on for another decade. McGrath, with the right assistants - why not including McCartan - is by no means the only option but still looks the best overall bet.

I think Pete would command the respect of the players too. Rumours were rife under Carr and Kane of fallouts with players, etc.
I remember reading this quote from an Irish News article with Timmy Hanna written by Kenny Archer. His comments about McGrath are interesting:

"Although he's already graduated to the county seniors, his footballing education will continue in good hands at club level, with the legendary Pete McGrath now the Bryansford boss. The man who led Down to Sam Maguire Cup triumphs in 1991 and 1994 was also in charge of the Mourne county U21s, and Hanna agrees with a smile that "you can never have too much Pete, he's a great manager".

[idontbelieveit]

His CV says that he managed Down minors to all-ireland success. Are you saying thats easy and anyone could have done it?

What else does he need to have achieved?
[/quote/]

I personally don't like coming on here and disregarding managers achievements, e.g. turleys all ireland triumph, however it would of been a comfortable job in 2005. Some of yous might not know that in 2004  the minors actually were cruelly beaten by the eventual champions tyrone in the semis by a point (ironically enough managed by Carr) and from that 2004 team, 9 first team players started in 2005 and also players like McCumiskey and Mckernan played who were not there the year before. Common sense would suggest that these boys would come back more focused and determined before. Therefore the managers job was easily done. If you want to suggest Turley, i would say that he would struggle in the hot seat. The seniors at the minute must be low in morale and confidence and Turley has yet to come across this problem. Hes an average county minor manager, definitely not what Down need...


An outsider is needed, however Wee James would do a good job

[niveaformen]

While I can understand why Wobbler and others think Peter McGrath would be turning back the clock, back to back Ulster u21 titles suggest differently. He has also proved that he can get the best out of senior players at An Riocht and Bryansford. He stayed in the post far too long the last time, but two Sams probably entitled him to believe that he could turn things round in difficult circumstances.

The bottom line is that he has also been responsible for bringing home six of our last eight provincial championships - two each at minor, u21 and senior.

He did fall out with James McCartan in 1993, but they were able to patch things up and allow James to play on for another decade. McGrath, with the right assistants - why not including McCartan - is by no means the only option but still looks the best overall bet.

I think Pete would command the respect of the players too. Rumours were rife under Carr and Kane of fallouts with players, etc.
I remember reading this quote from an Irish News article with Timmy Hanna written by Kenny Archer. His comments about McGrath are interesting:

"Although he’s already graduated to the county seniors, his footballing education will continue in good hands at club level, with the legendary Pete McGrath now the Bryansford boss. The man who led Down to Sam Maguire Cup triumphs in 1991 and 1994 was also in charge of the Mourne county U21s, and Hanna agrees with a smile that “you can never have too much Pete, he’s a great manager”.

With Pete being his club manager and making him captain of the U-21's he's not gona turn round and call him shite is he?

[Cúig huaire]

With Pete being his club manager and making him captain of the U-21's he's not gona turn round and call him shite is he?

Maybe the lad is just saying what he thinks.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Would it be fair to say that if Pete stands for the job, wee James won't stand against him?