Sinn Fein vs Sieg Heil - Spot the Difference

[lynchbhoy]

Impartial journalism! 
Man with an agenda eh! 

Journalist with a documentary to promote, actually, but it is the substance of his story which is significant, not the billing.

Speaking of which, Sam McAughtry was a man of greater integrity than you or I could ever lay claim to. If you read one of the volumes of his autobiography, "Sam's War", he describes his involvement in WWII - on the opposite side from Russell. In his RAF unit, there were several volunteers from the Free State, with whom Sam and the other Ulstermen became firm and lifelong friends. You can imagine his anger and dismay upon learning that while those (genuinely) "united Irishmen" were bravely fighting Fascism in Europe, other Irish "patriots" were in league with the Nazis, even to the extent of helping them bomb his family, friends and neighbours to smithereens back in Belfast.

People like Sam McAughtry are a million times more worthy of commemoration than a murderous sc**bag like Sean Russell, and would be, were there not so many fcuked-up apologists in Ireland, even 60 years later.  

gosh , where is wikipedia when you need it for an 'opinion' !

we presume you know all this from first hand knowledge ?

[Evil Genius]

Indeed I wonder how many WW2 IRA veterans are sitting in Stormont?

They might be a bit young to have "volunteered" themselves, but I daresay you wouldn't have to go too far back in the Family Album of a few of them, to find a few of Hitler's willing accomplices - more's the shame.  

[lynchbhoy]

back to the thread title
still no sign of actual comparison between modern day sf and whoever it is that evil myles is trying to tie in ?

or is the threadtitle actually correct and it is a difference spotting exercise ...

I'll start
1. the second word of one of them starts with an 'F' , the other starts with a 'H'

[updown9194]

Indeed I wonder how many WW2 IRA veterans are sitting in Stormont?

They might be a bit young to have "volunteered" themselves, but I daresay you wouldn't have to go too far back in the Family Album of a few of them, to find a few of Hitler's willing accomplices - more's the shame.  

So the sins of the father are visited on the son then? You need to take a look at yourself.

[Evil Genius]

Russell in the matters that are important, in his responsibility as COS, he was inept and strategically naive.
I certainly don't regard him as a hero in the responsibility that was accorded him.

Had Russell proven to have been capable and efficient at what he attempted, would that mean who would accord him greater "respect"?

There was an attempt by revisionist historians like David O'Donoghue to portray Frank Ryan as an Irish version of Quisling,
like many of Irish revisionist historians, he used false memory as historical fact combined with postmortem interviews as support

No-one other than Donagh has alluded in this thread to Ryan, and he only did so as a pitifully transparent attempt to cloud the issue. The fact is, a statue has been erected to a notorious Fascist collaborator in the Irish capital, and the only people who are revising Russell's history are the NGA and those self-styled "Socialists", Sinn Fein.  

[boojangles]

Impartial journalism! 
Man with an agenda eh! 

Journalist with a documentary to promote, actually, but it is the substance of his story which is significant, not the billing.

Speaking of which, Sam McAughtry was a man of greater integrity than you or I could ever lay claim to. If you read one of the volumes of his autobiography, "Sam's War", he describes his involvement in WWII - on the opposite side from Russell. In his RAF unit, there were several volunteers from the Free State, with whom Sam and the other Ulstermen became firm and lifelong friends. You can imagine his anger and dismay upon learning that while those (genuinely) "united Irishmen" were bravely fighting Fascism in Europe, other Irish "patriots" were in league with the Nazis, even to the extent of helping them bomb his family, friends and neighbours to smithereens back in Belfast.

People like Sam McAughtry are a million times more worthy of commemoration than a murderous sc**bag like Sean Russell, and would be, were there not so many fcuked-up apologists in Ireland, even 60 years later.  

Thats a good one!! We are all fucked up Apologists,bar of course Mr EVIL 'Iv got an agenda,and won't let it rest,even though most people don't giv a f**k anymore GENIUS.
I used to actually think people were harsh on you on this Board.You could hav even called me an Evil Genius Apologist- Now thats a fucked up apologist if ever there was one!!

[Evil Genius]

you use the word puile and I think this is very apt for your attempt to link russell and his wish to see a german victory in ww2 with modern day sinn fein and republicanism.

It is not I who is linking Russell with SF, it is they themselves  who are doing so, with their enthusiastic endorsement of a notorious Fascist collaborator, even long after the truth about him has become known.

I am sure in your own mind that russell and his 'abillities' offered great and profound help to the german war campaign - but in reality that some ira COS in  a'quiet period' where the IRA were not really up to much - to you seems like he was almost stalinesque in stature and importance says it all.
yes , purile indeed !  I think you are facing into the wind there, try not to get too wet!

It is no thanks to Russell that his attempts to aid the Nazis were ineffectual, rather there is a principle at stake. Then again, I can discern little regard for principle or integrity in any of your posts on this topic; maybe I shouldn't be surprised, since that is something which could also be said about the subject matter himself.

[Evil Genius]

gosh , where is wikipedia when you need it for an 'opinion' !

we presume you know all this from first hand knowledge ?

I "know" it specifically from having read some of McAughtry's books and also from having studied the period out of personal interest.

[Rossfan]

I presume EG and other Unionists will also hang their heads in shame for the sins of their predecessors.... Stealing lands that didnt belong to them,
denying civil rights to native Irish/Nationalists/Catholics for 470 years,
Engaging in repression and wholescale murder of the plain people of Ireland,
Running a rotten political slum for 50 odd years,
Disgraceful pogroms towards Catholics and .....
there isnt room to write all the shite that shower visited on us.

[Evil Genius]

back to the thread title
still no sign of actual comparison between modern day sf and whoever it is that evil myles is trying to tie in ?

It was not I who drew SF into the thread title, but SF themselves (alone).  For if you read the report I linked from An Poblacht in the opening post, you will see that SF were in the forefront of the unveiling of the the new statue of Russell, whilst these "Socialists [sic] carefully omitted all mention of his Nazi collaborationalist past:

http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38452
New memorial unveiled to Seán Russell
A new memorial in honour of Irish republican Seán Russell was unveiled in Dublin's Fairview Park on Sunday, 28 June.
Born in Fairview in 1893 Seán Russell was a veteran of the 1916 Rising, the Tan war and Civil War and was Chief of Staff during the IRA's bombing campaign in England, launched in 1939.
The original memorial was badly vandalised in an attack in December 2004.
Last weekend's unveiling ceremony was conducted by the National Graves Association which commissioned the new statue by sculptor Willie Malone. The statue was unveiled by Paddy Ryan and Sean Dougan.
A wreath was laid on behalf of Sinn Féin by the party's Dublin City Council group leader Larry O'Toole.

[Evil Genius]

So the sins of the father are visited on the son then? You need to take a look at yourself.

No-one* should have to apologise for any wrongs committed by their father etc, loften ong before they were even born. Then again, I have never demanded that, on this thread or any other.

What I am concerned about is people proudly commemorating evil committed by a previous generation, even attempting to make personal capital out of it, as SF clearly are doing with their air-brushed version of the "history" of Sean Russell.

* - Conveniently enough, I'd say, if you consider the wartime activities of the likes of Gerry Adams Sr. and his brother Dominic... 

[Evil Genius]

Thats a good one!! We are all fucked up Apologists,bar of course Mr EVIL 'Iv got an agenda,and won't let it rest,even though most people don't giv a f**k anymore GENIUS.
I used to actually think people were harsh on you on this Board.You could hav even called me an Evil Genius Apologist- Now thats a fucked up apologist if ever there was one!!

I'm distraught, absolutely distraught...

[lynchbhoy]

you use the word puile and I think this is very apt for your attempt to link russell and his wish to see a german victory in ww2 with modern day sinn fein and republicanism.

It is not I who is linking Russell with SF, it is they themselves  who are doing so, with their enthusiastic endorsement of a notorious Fascist collaborator, even long after the truth about him has become known.

I am sure in your own mind that russell and his 'abillities' offered great and profound help to the german war campaign - but in reality that some ira COS in  a'quiet period' where the IRA were not really up to much - to you seems like he was almost stalinesque in stature and importance says it all.
yes , purile indeed !  I think you are facing into the wind there, try not to get too wet!

It is no thanks to Russell that his attempts to aid the Nazis were ineffectual, rather there is a principle at stake. Then again, I can discern little regard for principle or integrity in any of your posts on this topic; maybe I shouldn't be surprised, since that is something which could also be said about the subject matter himself.

nope you are trying to make the link from russel to being some kind of german army maestro masterminding the war on behalf of the german army and hitler etc
though to be fair to you, there are some others writing fables in the press/mediastating similar.

sf are commemorating his leadership/period at the helm etc.

thats the difference, you still however , have not made a decent link on this thread which I expect is the 'point' of what you were 'trying' to do !
tentetive if not purile - is a fail - in any persons book !

[lynchbhoy]

gosh , where is wikipedia when you need it for an 'opinion' !

we presume you know all this from first hand knowledge ?

I "know" it specifically from having read some of McAughtry's books and also from having studied the period out of personal interest.

well knowing that your usual sources of info are works of fiction etc  , that hardly surprises me you have no decent 'source' !

[Jim_Murphy_74]

as SF clearly are doing with their air-brushed version of the "history" of Sean Russell.

EG,

You are jumping all over the place at this stage.   I don't think that SF are air-brushing their version of history.  Apart from Mary Lou McDonald whom I heard making the faux-paux of denying that Russell was ever involved with the Gerries (for which Marian Finucane tore her a new one), I have never heard any Shinner deny Russells activities.  Neither have I heard them deny the activities of the IRA in Belfast during WW2.

However, I have heard them rationalise these activities (The old enemy of my enemy, Britain's strife/Ireland's opportunity etc..).  These rationalisations have been at the core of republicanism from day one.

Do you think you are the only one around with this insight?

or, do you think you can change the outlook of the republican-minded contributors here?

/Jim.