Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[Our Nail Loney]

It's OK to play by the unwritten rules

Against the Breeze

By Paddy Heaney

26/05/2009

In 1987 Ballinderry and Newbridge 'played' two games in the Derry club championship. Both encounters are considered classics of that particular vintage.

Let me explain. There weren't that many at the drawn game, but it was an extremely brutal contest. There were punches aplenty. It was primal.

Word got around. The replay promised more of the same. It attracted thousands. It was played in Greenlough and they came from all over: from the Glens of Antrim, from all around the Loughshore, and from the deepest recesses of county Tyrone.

I was there too. Thank God. I'll never forget it. It was carnage. Hand-to-hand combat. Fights in every sector of the field.

Substitutes and spectators piling over the fences. Adult entertainment – and all for less than a fiver.

One memory has never left me. When the game eventually deteriorated into an all-out riot, a woman's voice could be heard piercing through the thin summer air. "You'ns are a disgrace, a disgrace," she squealed.

But she kept watching, transfixed like the rest of us. She never left. Her eyes stayed locked on the pitch. The paying punters got what they came to see, and in that case, probably a lot more.

I was thinking about that woman when I watched the TV pundits' reaction to Sunday's game in Celtic Park.

The outrage, the disgust, and the sniffy attitude towards the ugly scenes – what the hell did they

expect? What part of the last 125 years have they missed? What type of amnesia comes over

people once they enter a television studio?

Pat Spillane lifted the Sam Maguire Cup in 1975 when he was just 19-years-old. Pat lifted the Cup because the man who was supposed to perform the job, Mickey Ned O'Sullivan, was knocked unconscious during the game.

The four-game saga between Dublin and Meath in 1991 is widely eulogised. Colm O'Rourke was literally carried off the field in the fourth game after he was

pole-axed by Eamon Heery.

I once asked O'Rourke about Heery's tackle. He laughed it off, stating that if the roles were

reversed he would have done exactly the same thing.

Gaelic football has ever been thus. It's about winning, and it's about winning by whatever means necessary.

Pat Spillane said that he felt sorry for the supporters who paid into Celtic Park. Save your sympathy, Pat. The Derry fans walked out of Celtic Park glowing with satisfaction. Their team won. Money well spent.

Pat also lamented for the good old days when you could kick the ball up to your full-forwards. It's an understandable grievance, but his nostalgic yearning ignores the practical realities of the modern game.

Derry fans would also love it if their team could just kick the ball up to Paddy Bradley and then watch Paddy turn on the style. For the last two years they watched their team getting destroyed by trying to implement that very

tactic.

At most games, whenever a side passes the ball sideways or tries to run the ball through the

defence, some old duffer will eventually give the instruction to "get her in first day".

Yet it is a measure of how educated the modern-day fan is that I never heard one Derry man issue this command on Sunday. The experience of the previous two years has taught Derry that such a strategy against Monaghan is tantamount to football suicide.

It's a pity some of our TV analysts don't share the considered appreciation of the bog-standard supporter.

Sunday's game was always going to be a tactical and defensive battle. That's the way Monaghan play. They deploy a seventh defender. It works for them.

When Seamus McEnaney took over Monaghan, they were a mess. The previous year they finished nowhere in Division 2A and were obliterated by a vengeful Armagh in the 2004 Ulster Championship.

Under McEnaney, Monaghan have become tough and obdurate. He has taken them into Division One and they are regular visitors to Croke Park.

When Seamus played with a conventional defence in 2005, Paddy Bradley scored 1-8 and Derry kicked 1-17. Seamus learned his lesson.

And yet, Pat Spillane reckons that if Monaghan had been more positive they might have beaten Kerry. Nonsense.

If Monaghan played orthodox football against Kerry, 'the Gooch' would get a sore foot from kicking the ball over the bar.

Last year, Galway scored 1-16 against Kerry in a monsoon. The Kingdom scored 1-21. Kerry love playing Galway. They're not as fond of Monaghan.

Consider the contrast with soccer punditry. On

average, the current Barcelona team enjoys 65 per cent possession in every game it plays.

When Chelsea played two banks of four against them in the Champions League semi-final, there was no moaning from soccer analysts.

It was considered prudent, and a tacit recognition that it would be madness to leave a back four exposed to the terror of Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, and Eto'o.

The same will apply to Manchester United. No-one will condemn Alex Ferguson or deliver cries from the heart about the state of football if United employ a defensive gameplan against Barcelona in tomorrow night's final.

Soccer pundits also love games to ebb and flow. They too prefer open encounters. However, they are also quick to accept that certain tactics and styles of play sometimes mean this is just not possible.

And in such circumstances, they tend to call the game for what it is – a tactical battle.

When are Gaelic football fans going to receive the measured and realistic appraisal from their

analysts? (It is a sorry state of affairs when we are depending exclusively on Joe Brolly for clarity and insight).

Instead, our pundits keep echoing back to some mythical landscape when Gaelic football was fast and furious, everyone could kick-pass the ball 65 metres, and every game was a rip-roaring spectacle.

The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.

Two years ago, they bullied Derry out of Casement Park. Derry fans didn't complain about Monaghan, they merely felt saddened that their players didn't stand up and be counted.

The parameters for Sunday's game were laid down before the ball was thrown in. When Paddy Bradley jogged up the field to take his position, he received the now standard greeting from Dessie Mone. Paddy pointed to the

umpire. He asked the umpire to intervene. The umpire ignored him.

What was Paddy to do? Lodge a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights? In such cases, the law of the jungle prevails. When the written rules are not applied, the unwritten rules come into force.

Sunday's game was simply played by the unwritten rules of Gaelic football. There were sinners on both sides. Big deal.

As a fan and as a reporter, I have watched hundreds of such encounters. And unless the rules of the games change, we will continue to see more of the same.

So, let's not blame Derry. And let's not blame Monaghan. Moreover, let's not get too pious and

sanctimonious.

It is, after all, the Ulster Championship and this week Tyrone meet Armagh in Clones.

A derby clash between two arch-rivals. It will be hard and heavy.

What exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?

Now that would be a reason to complain.

[Fuzzman]

From the Irish Indo

Derry captain Fergal Doherty is facing a spell on the sidelines after TV cameras caught him kicking out at Monaghan midfielder Dick Clerkin during Sunday's bad-tempered Ulster SFC quarter-final.

Doherty, who was sent off on a second yellow after 56 minutes, is clearly shown kicking the back of Clerkin's leg at one point during their fractious duel.

The Bellaghy man was suspended for four weeks after the CCCC reviewed an incident in last year's Ulster championship quarter-final involving Donegal's Rory Kavanagh, for which he hadn't been yellow-carded.

Also under the microscope will be his colleague, substitute Brian Mullan, who lifted his knee into Monaghan defender Conor McManus as the pair grappled on the ground in one of many incidents that tainted the game.

Monaghan players may not escape either when the tape is reviewed -- the CCCC are not due to meet until next week but may bring that forward to get the process moving quicker -- with Tommy Freeman sure to be asked to account for his actions in one particular first-half flashpoint in the Derry goalmouth.

If the CCCC were to rigidly apply the rules that govern contributions to a melee then many more players from both sides could be facing suspensions over the next four to eight weeks.

Monaghan have had no word from the Ulster Council about an apparent attempt by a Derry supporter to strike one of their players close to the perimeter of the pitch.

- Colm Keys

[Zulu]

Jesus wept but THAT is some load of nonsense. Do you really think folks would be on here praising Doherty as a 'real footballer' if he decked Clerkin with a left hook? No, he would proclaimed to be a complete thug. Catch yourself on.

Yes because it is much better to have a game of football broken up with constant handbags, sly cowardly digs, verbals and diving. I'm not looking for punch ups on a field but I'd rather see two lads give each other a clip and get on with the game than the girly type carry on that went on last Sunday and is too prevelant in our games. The idea now is to goad your man and then if he gives you a dig hit the ground like you were shot, that isn't manly or real physicality. I remember Mick Lyons who took no prisoners but when Colm O'Neill hit hit a smack in the jaw in the AI he simply scratch his chin, if it was done now we'd see the 'hard man' go down holding his face.

A thug is someone who hits a man from behind, which thankfully isn't as common as it once was, a thug isn't a man who goes toe to toe with another. We don't want to see that on our playing fields either but what went on last Sunday isn't manly or real physical football.

Theres some amount of 'Shock & Horror' and 'Please think of the Children' syndrome here

That's rubbish and that view is part of the problem, we all want physical football and there was some good physical football last Sunday but no other game in the world can so easily descend into a foul fest as football. We want to retain the physical aspect of the game but get rid of the kicking of ankles, the third man in, the diving, and cynicism. Anyone who can't see this isn't interested in the game of football.

[southoftheborder]

EXCELLENT ARTICLE

[Zulu]

Normally I think Paddy talks a bit of sense but not in that article, the mistake Paddy, and obviously a few around here, is making is the presumption that the game was simply physical, it wasn't, it was dirty and foul ridden, there is a difference.

What exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?

We expected a good hard game, what we got was a foulfest with players doing much outside the rules of the game to win and no sport should feel that that is acceptable.

[whiskeysteve]

Its a forum and I'll comment on whatever I like- I don't have to ask you for permission. Dublin weren't playing last Sunday and that has nothing to do with the events last Sunday. Stop bringing extraneous arguments into the debate. If Dublin were involved in the same shite I'd say exactly the same.

Is discussing Dublin thuggery really much more of an extraneous argument than Ulster thuggery? If you want to piss on Ulsters parade you should expect someone to piss on yours

Jesus wept but THAT is some load of nonsense. Do you really think folks would be on here praising Doherty as a 'real footballer' if he decked Clerkin with a left hook? No, he would proclaimed to be a complete thug. Catch yourself on.

Yes because it is much better to have a game of football broken up with constant handbags, sly cowardly digs, verbals and diving. I'm not looking for punch ups on a field but I'd rather see two lads give each other a clip and get on with the game than the girly type carry on that went on last Sunday and is too prevelant in our games. The idea now is to goad your man and then if he gives you a dig hit the ground like you were shot, that isn't manly or real physicality. I remember Mick Lyons who took no prisoners but when Colm O'Neill hit hit a smack in the jaw in the AI he simply scratch his chin, if it was done now we'd see the 'hard man' go down holding his face.

A thug is someone who hits a man from behind, which thankfully isn't as common as it once was, a thug isn't a man who goes toe to toe with another. We don't want to see that on our playing fields either but what went on last Sunday isn't manly or real physical football.

Theres some amount of 'Shock & Horror' and 'Please think of the Children' syndrome here

That's rubbish and that view is part of the problem, we all want physical football and there was some good physical football last Sunday but no other game in the world can so easily descend into a foul fest as football. We want to retain the physical aspect of the game but get rid of the kicking of ankles, the third man in, the diving, and cynicism. Anyone who can't see this isn't interested in the game of football.

Again romanticising punch-ups from yesteryear. Do you honestly think Doherty would be excused for decking Clerkin? He knows as well as anyone the repercussions of such a blatant act as displayed in your example where Paidi O'ses floored Dinny Allen (after Allen punched him with a back hand closed fist). An important aspect of that incident is that neither player got sent off though the referee is plainly in front of it and helped Allen to his feet. These days that is a lengthy suspension never mind a split second red. Also the presence of more cameras and media rehash is influential. With these two factors, Doc, no doubt thinking with the red mist descended, felt the pressure to get Dick on the sly (wrongly).

You can be sure that if punch ups went more unpunished as of old there would be more of your preferred retribution from those halcyon days.

Incidentally, folks like yourself should just a leaf out of Mick Lyons book and just get on with it, instead of rolling around the ground making a meal out of these incidents

[Maximus Marillius]

Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983

[Bensars]

Didnt take long for the wagons to circle.

Irrespective of where Indiana is from the behaviour of Derry on sunday was unsavory to say the least. Even the staunchest  of derry supporters could not excuse it. But then again its a case of turn a blind eye when its affecting yer own.

[Maximus Marillius]

Nobody is turning ablind eye....just don't come on hear with a holy than holier mentality. Ye can all take the mote out of your own eye.

[blewuporstuffed]

It's OK to play by the unwritten rules

Against the Breeze

By Paddy Heaney

26/05/2009

In 1987 Ballinderry and Newbridge 'played' two games in the Derry club championship. Both encounters are considered classics of that particular vintage.

Let me explain. There weren't that many at the drawn game, but it was an extremely brutal contest. There were punches aplenty. It was primal.

Word got around. The replay promised more of the same. It attracted thousands. It was played in Greenlough and they came from all over: from the Glens of Antrim, from all around the Loughshore, and from the deepest recesses of county Tyrone.

I was there too. Thank God. I'll never forget it. It was carnage. Hand-to-hand combat. Fights in every sector of the field.

Substitutes and spectators piling over the fences. Adult entertainment – and all for less than a fiver.

One memory has never left me. When the game eventually deteriorated into an all-out riot, a woman's voice could be heard piercing through the thin summer air. "You'ns are a disgrace, a disgrace," she squealed.

But she kept watching, transfixed like the rest of us. She never left. Her eyes stayed locked on the pitch. The paying punters got what they came to see, and in that case, probably a lot more.

I was thinking about that woman when I watched the TV pundits' reaction to Sunday's game in Celtic Park.

The outrage, the disgust, and the sniffy attitude towards the ugly scenes – what the hell did they

expect? What part of the last 125 years have they missed? What type of amnesia comes over

people once they enter a television studio?

Pat Spillane lifted the Sam Maguire Cup in 1975 when he was just 19-years-old. Pat lifted the Cup because the man who was supposed to perform the job, Mickey Ned O'Sullivan, was knocked unconscious during the game.

The four-game saga between Dublin and Meath in 1991 is widely eulogised. Colm O'Rourke was literally carried off the field in the fourth game after he was

pole-axed by Eamon Heery.

I once asked O'Rourke about Heery's tackle. He laughed it off, stating that if the roles were

reversed he would have done exactly the same thing.

Gaelic football has ever been thus. It's about winning, and it's about winning by whatever means necessary.

Pat Spillane said that he felt sorry for the supporters who paid into Celtic Park. Save your sympathy, Pat. The Derry fans walked out of Celtic Park glowing with satisfaction. Their team won. Money well spent.

Pat also lamented for the good old days when you could kick the ball up to your full-forwards. It's an understandable grievance, but his nostalgic yearning ignores the practical realities of the modern game.

Derry fans would also love it if their team could just kick the ball up to Paddy Bradley and then watch Paddy turn on the style. For the last two years they watched their team getting destroyed by trying to implement that very

tactic.

At most games, whenever a side passes the ball sideways or tries to run the ball through the

defence, some old duffer will eventually give the instruction to "get her in first day".

Yet it is a measure of how educated the modern-day fan is that I never heard one Derry man issue this command on Sunday. The experience of the previous two years has taught Derry that such a strategy against Monaghan is tantamount to football suicide.

It's a pity some of our TV analysts don't share the considered appreciation of the bog-standard supporter.

Sunday's game was always going to be a tactical and defensive battle. That's the way Monaghan play. They deploy a seventh defender. It works for them.

When Seamus McEnaney took over Monaghan, they were a mess. The previous year they finished nowhere in Division 2A and were obliterated by a vengeful Armagh in the 2004 Ulster Championship.

Under McEnaney, Monaghan have become tough and obdurate. He has taken them into Division One and they are regular visitors to Croke Park.

When Seamus played with a conventional defence in 2005, Paddy Bradley scored 1-8 and Derry kicked 1-17. Seamus learned his lesson.

And yet, Pat Spillane reckons that if Monaghan had been more positive they might have beaten Kerry. Nonsense.

If Monaghan played orthodox football against Kerry, 'the Gooch' would get a sore foot from kicking the ball over the bar.

Last year, Galway scored 1-16 against Kerry in a monsoon. The Kingdom scored 1-21. Kerry love playing Galway. They're not as fond of Monaghan.

Consider the contrast with soccer punditry. On

average, the current Barcelona team enjoys 65 per cent possession in every game it plays.

When Chelsea played two banks of four against them in the Champions League semi-final, there was no moaning from soccer analysts.

It was considered prudent, and a tacit recognition that it would be madness to leave a back four exposed to the terror of Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, and Eto'o.

The same will apply to Manchester United. No-one will condemn Alex Ferguson or deliver cries from the heart about the state of football if United employ a defensive gameplan against Barcelona in tomorrow night's final.

Soccer pundits also love games to ebb and flow. They too prefer open encounters. However, they are also quick to accept that certain tactics and styles of play sometimes mean this is just not possible.

And in such circumstances, they tend to call the game for what it is – a tactical battle.

When are Gaelic football fans going to receive the measured and realistic appraisal from their

analysts? (It is a sorry state of affairs when we are depending exclusively on Joe Brolly for clarity and insight).

Instead, our pundits keep echoing back to some mythical landscape when Gaelic football was fast and furious, everyone could kick-pass the ball 65 metres, and every game was a rip-roaring spectacle.

The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.

Two years ago, they bullied Derry out of Casement Park. Derry fans didn't complain about Monaghan, they merely felt saddened that their players didn't stand up and be counted.

The parameters for Sunday's game were laid down before the ball was thrown in. When Paddy Bradley jogged up the field to take his position, he received the now standard greeting from Dessie Mone. Paddy pointed to the

umpire. He asked the umpire to intervene. The umpire ignored him.

What was Paddy to do? Lodge a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights? In such cases, the law of the jungle prevails. When the written rules are not applied, the unwritten rules come into force.

Sunday's game was simply played by the unwritten rules of Gaelic football. There were sinners on both sides. Big deal.

As a fan and as a reporter, I have watched hundreds of such encounters. And unless the rules of the games change, we will continue to see more of the same.

So, let's not blame Derry. And let's not blame Monaghan. Moreover, let's not get too pious and

sanctimonious.

It is, after all, the Ulster Championship and this week Tyrone meet Armagh in Clones.

A derby clash between two arch-rivals. It will be hard and heavy.

What exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?

Now that would be a reason to complain.

have to say i agree with paddy on this one

[rrhf]

Ok outside the wind ups... Did anyone actually enjoy the match.... I thought it was actually a half enjoyable affair, typical ulster football.  Heaneys bang on with his article today.  It will be interesting to compare what Pat Mc Eneany does this week with what Monaghan and Derry got away with last week.  

[Oakleafer93]

Fergal is deservedly getting a lot of flack on here for the way he carried on on Sunday, few are talking about the way Dick Clerkin performed always in his ear, getting the sly slaps in as well and he kneed Fergal in the ribs at one stage as well. If Fergal is going to be tarred as dirty and all the rest Clerkin shouldn't be getting away with the way he carried on either. Also is Fergals wee tap to Dick Clerkins ankle i what people are calling a suspension for they need to catch themselves ion, especially as Rory 'always involved in what has nothing to do with me' Woods was at the same craic.

[Maximus Marillius]

For a start Pat is a good ref...half the bloody battle

[Oakleafer93]

Ok outside the wind ups... Did anyone actually enjoy the match.... I thought it was actually a half enjoyable affair, typical ulster football.  Heaneys bang on with his article today.  It will be interesting to compare what Pat Mc Eneany does this week with what Monaghan and Derry got away with last week.  

The first ten and the last ten minutes especially the latter were a joy to watch when Fergal got sent off Derry started to play football.

[full back]

Fergal is deservedly getting a lot of flack on here for the way he carried on on Sunday, few are talking about the way Dick Clerkin performed always in his ear, getting the sly slaps in as well and he kneed Fergal in the ribs at one stage as well. If Fergal is going to be tarred as dirty and all the rest Clerkin shouldn't be getting away with the way he carried on either. Also is Fergals wee tap to Dick Clerkins ankle i what people are calling a suspension for they need to catch themselves ion, especially as Rory 'always involved in what has nothing to do with me' Woods was at the same craic.

What is 'Fergals' take on Sundays events?