Lance Armstrong

tyronefan · March 24, 2009, 02:34:43 PM

the bottom line is whether he did or didn't take drugs, most people believe he did and that suspicion will always be there when you talk about his achievements.

I think it is a well known fact that the drug tests can be manipulated

heganboy · March 24, 2009, 02:38:38 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on March 24, 2009, 01:44:37 PM
Cheers but I dont need you to explain what Wiki is.
I used Wikipedia as a reference point as it quotes various people alleging drug use by Armstrong.

These people include his closest aids, doctors, former team mates, employees, sports journalists, other cyclists and investigators.

Again, all you have areallegations as I said before

QuoteIn addition to himself, there are also a handful of people that could actually definitively prove that armstrong did take drugs and none of them have come forward, unfortunately there is no-one that definitively prove that he didn't

Abbey sider- unfortunately you can have your point of view and support it with argument and allegation, however no-one can prove that Armstrong didnt take drugs, and anyone that can prove he did has not come forward.

screenexile · March 24, 2009, 03:01:06 PM

I hate having this debate as it makes me sick... I hate drugs cheats as much as the next man but as everyone has said here nobody has any kind of evidence to prove he was/is a drugs cheat.

As I've said before, the fact that he won his 7 tours without testing positive and then retired makes me think that if he was/is taking drugs there is no point in coming back to the sport as he would have gotten away with it. The fact is he could have retired happy with 7 tours and a clean record so why risk it all if he does take drugs to come back again??? It doesn't make sense.

As for people that argue "Well there's no proof that he did take drugs but there is also no proof that he didn't!" Well my mistake I thought we lived in a society where people are innocent until proven guilty!! I for one will be huge admirer of this man until someone can prove without any doubt that I shouldnt be!

Tyrones own · March 24, 2009, 03:09:23 PM

Nail on Head!

ludermor · March 24, 2009, 03:59:19 PM

So you dont think that the fact he could every consistently beat single one of his competitors ( who were full to their gills of drugs) is open to any debate?
No need to give insults either

Doogie Browser · March 24, 2009, 04:01:55 PM

As I have said before, the entire world of professional cycling has a dark cloud hanging over it. Until this is lifted everyones achievements unfortunately will be subject to scrutiny. What is not in doubt is the mans courage and ability to overcome life threatening illness, for that alone he deserves so many plaudits.

Tyrones own · March 24, 2009, 04:12:38 PM

QuoteSo you dont think that the fact he could every consistently beat single one of his competitors ( who were full to their gills of drugs) is open to any debate?

Debate sure, but some of these posts are verging on Defamation, bottom line is he was never caught with any in his system
and as someone quoted a while back, they even went as far as breaking into his hotel room and still found nothing.
So at this point IMO, he is a modern day hero in more ways than one and it smacks of personal dislike or jealousy to come from any other angle,
funny how it's so hard to believe that Lance could be so good but no mention of Miguel Indurain who won it 5 times in a row!

ludermor · March 24, 2009, 04:36:16 PM

But surely its a personal choice, he might be a hero to you but to me he is not. Sure i admire the way he recovered from his illness and the work he has done for charity since but i cant help but be sceptical of his achievement in the Tour de France.
I don't think i should be called a w**ker for having this view

Tyrones own · March 24, 2009, 04:45:27 PM

No, you shouldn't.. sure I'm all against insults on this board

AbbeySider · March 24, 2009, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: ludermor on March 24, 2009, 04:36:16 PM
But surely its a personal choice, he might be a hero to you but to me he is not. Sure i admire the way he recovered from his illness and the work he has done for charity since but i cant help but be sceptical of his achievement in the Tour de France.
I don't think i should be called a w**ker for having this view

Agree with the above
Dont get me started on the statistics about the increase of athletes using inhalers for asthma either or this thread could get very long

I have my own view and suspicions on these things. Call me cynical but ScreenExile, you went a bit far.

heganboy · March 24, 2009, 05:16:02 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on March 24, 2009, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: ludermor on March 24, 2009, 04:36:16 PM
But surely its a personal choice, he might be a hero to you but to me he is not. Sure i admire the way he recovered from his illness and the work he has done for charity since but i cant help but be sceptical of his achievement in the Tour de France.
I don't think i should be called a w**ker for having this view

Agree with the above
Dont get me started on the statistics about the increase of athletes using inhalers for asthma either or this thread could get very long
I have my own view and suspicions on these things. Call me cynical but ScreenExile, you went a bit far.

Sure but be prepared to accept that what you have is a view or an opinion. You will get called a w**ker if you try to argue your opinion as fact with no evidence...

screenexile · March 24, 2009, 05:29:33 PM

Fine I've taken back the w**ker comment... but it strikes me as sad that the world has become so cynical when a man is being castigated throughout the world for something which people have tried to pin on him and yet come up without a shred of evidence for. As I've said our justice system is supposed to be based on the "Innocent until proven guilty" premise which seems to have gone completely out the window in this case. Year on year people try and diminish the man's achievements and try to uncover some wrongdoing yet it has NEVER happened.

In my opinion it is begrudgery plain and simple. "Well everyone he has beaten has been on drugs so he must be!" He was told he had a less than 40% chance to live through his cancer and he survived... just because every other kn**ker is on drugs doesn't necessarily mean he is. You are judging someone and his behaviour with regard to your own when you have to realise that he has proven his standards are way above many other peoples comprehension!

BallyhaiseMan · March 24, 2009, 05:35:41 PM

couldnt have put it better than that Screen.

The Guy is one of the true sporting greats IMO.

heganboy · March 24, 2009, 05:39:56 PM

On this thread i'm pretty sure I haven't said what my opinion is, bob Beamon broke a long jump record that stood for 23 years- don't recall he got much of a touch re steroids...

heganboy · March 24, 2009, 05:46:34 PM

and back on topic- looks like he will be taking part in "le tour" after all

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/24/sports/AP-CYC-Armstrong-Astana.html