International Rules dates announced

[Our Nail Loney]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

Ive never rated him either, would be in armagh's best interests to try and blood in a new full back instead or relying on francie coming back from injury. Then again maybe it's just becuase hes a hateful dirty ****

I'd agree that he's overrated but he's far from being a "hateful dirty ****". 
Hard enough on the field, off it he's an unassuming gentleman but I don't suppose you'd know much about that. 

He is a dirty ****. Now Mickey Linden is a gentleman

[pintsofguinness]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

Ive never rated him either, would be in armagh's best interests to try and blood in a new full back instead or relying on francie coming back from injury. Then again maybe it's just becuase hes a hateful dirty ****

I'd agree that he's overrated but he's far from being a "hateful dirty ****". 
Hard enough on the field, off it he's an unassuming gentleman but I don't suppose you'd know much about that. 

He is a dirty ****. Now Mickey Linden is a gentleman

Great argument 

[Maguire01]

FAO Our Nail Loney:

[Our Nail Loney]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

Ive never rated him either, would be in armagh's best interests to try and blood in a new full back instead or relying on francie coming back from injury. Then again maybe it's just becuase hes a hateful dirty ****

I'd agree that he's overrated but he's far from being a "hateful dirty ****". 
Hard enough on the field, off it he's an unassuming gentleman but I don't suppose you'd know much about that. 

He is a dirty ****. Now Mickey Linden is a gentleman

Great argument 

Who's arguing?

[pintsofguinness]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

Ive never rated him either, would be in armagh's best interests to try and blood in a new full back instead or relying on francie coming back from injury. Then again maybe it's just becuase hes a hateful dirty ****

I'd agree that he's overrated but he's far from being a "hateful dirty ****". 
Hard enough on the field, off it he's an unassuming gentleman but I don't suppose you'd know much about that. 

He is a dirty ****. Now Mickey Linden is a gentleman

Great argument 

Who's arguing?

No one

Go back to talking to your mates. 

[Our Nail Loney]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

Ive never rated him either, would be in armagh's best interests to try and blood in a new full back instead or relying on francie coming back from injury. Then again maybe it's just becuase hes a hateful dirty ****

I'd agree that he's overrated but he's far from being a "hateful dirty ****". 
Hard enough on the field, off it he's an unassuming gentleman but I don't suppose you'd know much about that. 

He is a dirty ****. Now Mickey Linden is a gentleman

Great argument 

Who's arguing?

No one

Go back to talking to your mates. 

No bother, and you can go back talking to your mates... Oh that's right you don't have any

[doire na raithe]

I think Bellew's appeal to the people all over the country is that he does come across as an honest decent footballer... but I don't know how he does this. Perhaps its the fact that he genuinely is hard and would never shite out of any ball, the type of player that wouldn't think twice about seriously injuring himself just to win a ball he has no right to win.

However none of that negates the fact that he is a dirty b**tard. Gentleman he may be off the field as you say pints but ask anyone who's ever marked him and they'll tell ya he's as bad, if not worse than Donaldson. The Mickey Linden incident is proof enough. There was clear reckless intent to seriously hurt Linden.

[pintsofguinness]

However none of that negates the fact that he is a dirty b**tard. Gentleman he may be off the field as you say pints but ask anyone who's ever marked him and they'll tell ya he's as bad, if not worse than Donaldson. The Mickey Linden incident is proof enough. There was clear reckless intent to seriously hurt Linden.

I don't think there was intent in the Linden incident.  I wouldnt claim he was an angel on the field but I don't see how he's a "dirty ****" either.

[Bensars]

There was clear reckless intent to seriously hurt Linden

Now apply that argument to most if not all defenders.   If you're being 100% honest, most defenders willl try to "nobble" a fast accurate forward.

But then again im not a romantic that believes all county players wear their pioneer pins,  visit the sick in the parish the morning before a game, and believe that sex doesnt occur before marraige.

IMO Bellew has proven himself over the years ( club and county )on the pitch against all sorts of players ( and from a personal tyrone perspective ). Yes theres a element of physical play, but over the years i have gained a respect for him.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

References have been made to the 'dirtier' side of his game without offering any real examples bar the Linden incident. I was at that match and have seen the incident several times since and very arguably Francie didn't do an awful lot wrong. He stood his ground, Linden was flying through after a suicide pass (its called a suicide pass for a reason - because you're expecting someone to get hurt), Francie could have either stood facing Linden getting a face full of the geriatric or turn his shoulder towards him, protecting himself. Unsurprisingly he protected himself. The ref clearly saw the incident and although it looked bad, especially with the blood, even he decided that there wasn't any foul play involved. A lot more was made of the whole thing because of Linden's age (not something that should ever have to be considered by an opposing player) and because of the reputation that Pat Spillane had managed to give Bellew. Also, from memory, in the 6 years since making his Armagh debut he has only been sent off once, against Donegal in 2006 - a red card that was subsequently rescinded. This despite the prejudices that referees have of him.

Fairly good analysis of the incident. I have a lot of time for Francie but he'd be an absolute disaster against the Australia. Nowhere near quick enough and accurate kick passing just isn't his forte. As for Donaghy in 2006, Francie done well on him and only for the fact that the referee booked him early on for what seemed little more than the offence of being Francie Bellew, he'd have hauled Donaghy down and there'd have been no goal. It should be said though that a lot of the success he had against Donaghy was due to Geezer sweeping in front of Bellew, allowing him to break most of the ball off Donaghy. I think he may be past his best but when marking the right style of forward (eg Mulligan who he has always got the better of) he's been an excellent defender.

As for the international rules, glad to see it back. Hopefully we can be competitive, no reason why not, we dominated the early years of the series after its return so I don't see why some people seem to think we have no chance

[Smokin Joe]

To be fair Francie has to be one of the most overrated defenders of all time. Armagh management recognise he's not that good and you'd never see him marking the best player in the full forward line. Well apart from the time he tried to mark Stephen O'Neill and a valuable lesson was learnt. If for example Armagh played Derry this year there's no way he'd be left on Paddy Bradley. A decent defender who's alright at marking a limited player in the full forward line but certainly no were near as good as is made out at times. Even when he tried to mark a 19 year Sean Cavanagh making his debut he scored 1-1 of him from play.

On a point of order, I believe that Paul McCormack marked Sean Cavanagh that day in Clones, not Francie.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Cavanagh scored his first point or maybe 2 of Paul McCormack who then got took off and replaced by Francie. He scored 1-1 of Francie in the second half, the goal levelling the game near the end.