The should-we-or-shouldn't-we have a border poll thread

[armaghniac]

This is the sort of stuff to which I refer:
This is from Irish News:
"Health Minister Edwin Poots is demanding answers from the new CEO of the body that runs the north's health service."
this body employs 550 staff, not one on the frontline. Salaries total £25,000,000. Thats an average of £45,000, quite a bit over the minimum wage. The salaries have increased by 25% in the last year. In the same period the same body reduced the district nursing budget by 12%...go figure.

That's fair comment. But the district nurses,  included in the sweeping statements, have to work harder because of this. 

[Myles Na G.]

Those in receipt of Public Service pensions are hardly ordinary people, more a cosseted bunch of inefficient workers.

If they're getting pensions they are no longer workers.
As for cossetted and inefficient - try driving an ambulance, working in an A & E or  teaching 4 year olds instead of repeating oul broad stroke cliches.

I am not denying that many of those you have mentioned do good work and are deserving of the rewards. But that hardly makes them ordinary people. Many in the public sector are over paid. The public sector is too large and we cannot afford it. The health service has far too many managers and not enough frontline staff. There is too much overlap between Govt Depts many working at odds. So if SF recognise this then thats a sign of their maturing as a political party. The publc service is inefficient and there needs to be equality. If a teacher is ordinary, how can they retire at 50 take a full pension and then return as a sub?

educate yourself before you come on spouting nonsense:
http://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/extras/publicsectorpensions.pdf

Hardly a balanced view!

Whereas you throw in myths and legends that would embarrass the Daily Mail and expect to go unchallenged? You quote a line from the Irish News, but then proceed to summarise in your own words, so really we're none the wiser what that article says. Whatever, I can assure you that the average wage in the public sector is nowhere near £40k. Are there too many managers in the health service? Quite possibly, but whose fault is that? Successive governments have taken target setting in education and health to extremes, and when you have targets, you need people to monitor, measure and report on them. You also need squads of people to monitor, measure and report on the budgets that fund all this. And then you end up with organisations that forget what they're about - schools that exclude difficult young people, because they want to climb the school league tables, hospitals that turf sick people out too quickly in order to meet their time targets.

[Rossfan]

If them sick people would only stay away from the Hospitals........

[LCohen]

why would anyone in the 26 counties vote for a united ireland? Would they want to pay the higher taxes to subsidise public service provision in the north but not get the same services themselves? And then there is the cost of policing the thing. A united ireland won't come quietly. Not justifying that sort of reaction but you can be sure it will happen and the south would pay more than just a financial cost (There is a dimension to the irish question that did not arise in the scottish question)

Or would northern services be stripped back? If so why would the nordies vote for that? If northerners thought that they would have to pay VAT on their basic neccessities (overnight inflation of 13.5%) they would run a mile. Are any southern parties going to fund the country without their vat on food etc revenues?

Talk of a poll is delusional. Anybody who thinks the results would be interesting can start a fund raiser to pay for it

[armaghniac]

why would anyone in the 26 counties vote for a united ireland? Would they want to pay the higher taxes to subsidise public service provision in the north but not get the same services themselves? And then there is the cost of policing the thing. A united ireland won't come quietly. Not justifying that sort of reaction but you can be sure it will happen and the south would pay more than just a financial cost (There is a dimension to the irish question that did not arise in the scottish question)

If northerners thought that they would have to pay VAT on their basic neccessities (overnight inflation of 13.5%) they would run a mile. Are any southern parties going to fund the country without their vat on food etc revenues?

That's par for the course for these threads. Serious points conflated with a point of detail that is a swings and roundabouts situation.

There is a real issue with the overall deficit in NI, differences in tax structure etc balance out for the most part.

[LCohen]

why would anyone in the 26 counties vote for a united ireland? Would they want to pay the higher taxes to subsidise public service provision in the north but not get the same services themselves? And then there is the cost of policing the thing. A united ireland won't come quietly. Not justifying that sort of reaction but you can be sure it will happen and the south would pay more than just a financial cost (There is a dimension to the irish question that did not arise in the scottish question)

If northerners thought that they would have to pay VAT on their basic neccessities (overnight inflation of 13.5%) they would run a mile. Are any southern parties going to fund the country without their vat on food etc revenues?

That's par for the course for these threads. Serious points conflated with a point of detail that is a swings and roundabouts situation.

There is a real issue with the overall deficit in NI, differences in tax structure etc balance out for the most part.

Wah??

What is the level of personal taxation in the south? The real one when VAT, health costs, property tax etc etc etc is included? How does this compare with the North? How do services match up?

Far form balancing up.

[armaghniac]

What is the level of personal taxation in the south? The real one when VAT, health costs, property tax etc etc etc is included? How does this compare with the North? How do services match up?

Income tax is lower for most people, although it is a bit higher for the well paid,  and property tax only half of rates in NI. Swings and roundabouts, as I said, but no doubt unless I enumerate each tax in great detail you'll keep coming back with further data free statements. If you are claiming some great difference then why do you not produce the data?

NI is no paradise,  I see no great surge of people from the 26 counties trying to get in.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

I'm sure there's plenty of people in the Republic who would vote against a 32 county Ireland.  Never met one, though.