9/11: Tenth Anniversary

[muppet]

Former New York police officers and firefighters were among 106 people charged over a "massive fraud" worth hundreds of millions of dollars, some in connection with the 11 September attacks.
The accused allegedly collected tens of thousands of dollars a year in social security disability benefits, which are funded by taxpayers.
It is alleged they claimed they were completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments.
But, according to court documents, they were in fact living normal lives, one of the accused flew a helicopter, while another played blackjack in Las Vegas.
One of the accused taught and performed mixed martial arts, but was still claiming benefits of typically between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (€22,000-€37,000).
In some instances, the total amount fraudulently obtained was nearly $500,000 (€367,000) per applicant.
Of those indicted in the decades-long scam, 80 were retired New York police officers or firefighters.
"Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11, dishonouring the first responders who did serve their city at the expense of their own health and safety," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a statement.
As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities in order to collect benefit payments in addition to their public pensions, the indictment and court documents showed.
Prosecutors said the applicants claimed they suffered from a psychiatric condition that prevented them from working, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety or depression.
"This alleged scam further depleted the already limited resources available for battling the real and complex conditions of PTSD and depression," Mr Vance said.
New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said: "The retired members of the NYPD indicted in this case have disgraced all first responders who perished during the search and rescue efforts on September 11, 2001, and those who subsequently died from 9/11 related illness, by exploiting their involvements that tragic day for personal gain."
Mr Hale and Mr Esposito, the latter a retired member of the NYPD, allegedly coached benefit applicants to falsely describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors they had recruited.
They instructed applicants on how to fail memory tests with plausibility, how to dress, and on their demeanour.
For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company".

How could false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

And flying a helicopter, playing blackjack in Las Vegas and performing mixed martial arts is hardly living a 'normal life', is it?

Some people would consider some or even all of these activities nuts and proof of PTSD.

(Not me, I'd love to play blackjack while perfuming martial arts in a helicopter.)

If you had highlighted just the one word instead of the complete first sentence you could have answered your own question!

Ok try this, How could SOME false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

[trueblue1234]

I'm guessing it was a spelling error. "decades old scam"  instead of "decade old scam"

[seafoid]

Former New York police officers and firefighters were among 106 people charged over a "massive fraud" worth hundreds of millions of dollars, some in connection with the 11 September attacks.
The accused allegedly collected tens of thousands of dollars a year in social security disability benefits, which are funded by taxpayers.
It is alleged they claimed they were completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments.
But, according to court documents, they were in fact living normal lives, one of the accused flew a helicopter, while another played blackjack in Las Vegas.
One of the accused taught and performed mixed martial arts, but was still claiming benefits of typically between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (€22,000-€37,000).
In some instances, the total amount fraudulently obtained was nearly $500,000 (€367,000) per applicant.
Of those indicted in the decades-long scam, 80 were retired New York police officers or firefighters.
"Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11, dishonouring the first responders who did serve their city at the expense of their own health and safety," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a statement.
As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities in order to collect benefit payments in addition to their public pensions, the indictment and court documents showed.
Prosecutors said the applicants claimed they suffered from a psychiatric condition that prevented them from working, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety or depression.
"This alleged scam further depleted the already limited resources available for battling the real and complex conditions of PTSD and depression," Mr Vance said.
New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said: "The retired members of the NYPD indicted in this case have disgraced all first responders who perished during the search and rescue efforts on September 11, 2001, and those who subsequently died from 9/11 related illness, by exploiting their involvements that tragic day for personal gain."
Mr Hale and Mr Esposito, the latter a retired member of the NYPD, allegedly coached benefit applicants to falsely describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors they had recruited.
They instructed applicants on how to fail memory tests with plausibility, how to dress, and on their demeanour.
For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company".

The article says some people claimed up to half a million, there were 106 of them and the total amount misclaimed was in the hundreds of millions

1/2 * 106 million is 53 million   

A drop in the ocean compared to the 3 trillion (3 million million) spent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan
How much did Halliburton and Lockheed cream btw ?

What have Halliburton in Iraq got to do with this?

There has been so much corruption since day one of the Iraq invasion.
Focusing on the cops is easier than on the whole rotten system. By all means punish those who broke the law but there is a much bigger problem. America has been borrowing hundreds of billions for nothing. Ordinary taxpayers take the hit as well as citizens who have their services cut. The whole thing is pure rotten.

[LeoMc]

Former New York police officers and firefighters were among 106 people charged over a "massive fraud" worth hundreds of millions of dollars, some in connection with the 11 September attacks.
The accused allegedly collected tens of thousands of dollars a year in social security disability benefits, which are funded by taxpayers.
It is alleged they claimed they were completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments.
But, according to court documents, they were in fact living normal lives, one of the accused flew a helicopter, while another played blackjack in Las Vegas.
One of the accused taught and performed mixed martial arts, but was still claiming benefits of typically between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (€22,000-€37,000).
In some instances, the total amount fraudulently obtained was nearly $500,000 (€367,000) per applicant.
Of those indicted in the decades-long scam, 80 were retired New York police officers or firefighters.
"Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11, dishonouring the first responders who did serve their city at the expense of their own health and safety," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a statement.
As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities in order to collect benefit payments in addition to their public pensions, the indictment and court documents showed.
Prosecutors said the applicants claimed they suffered from a psychiatric condition that prevented them from working, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety or depression.
"This alleged scam further depleted the already limited resources available for battling the real and complex conditions of PTSD and depression," Mr Vance said.
New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said: "The retired members of the NYPD indicted in this case have disgraced all first responders who perished during the search and rescue efforts on September 11, 2001, and those who subsequently died from 9/11 related illness, by exploiting their involvements that tragic day for personal gain."
Mr Hale and Mr Esposito, the latter a retired member of the NYPD, allegedly coached benefit applicants to falsely describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors they had recruited.
They instructed applicants on how to fail memory tests with plausibility, how to dress, and on their demeanour.
For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company".

How could false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

And flying a helicopter, playing blackjack in Las Vegas and performing mixed martial arts is hardly living a 'normal life', is it?

Some people would consider some or even all of these activities nuts and proof of PTSD.

(Not me, I'd love to play blackjack while perfuming martial arts in a helicopter.)

If you had highlighted just the one word instead of the complete first sentence you could have answered your own question!

Ok try this, How could SOME false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

Maybe the decades old scam has been ongoing for decades?

[muppet]

Former New York police officers and firefighters were among 106 people charged over a "massive fraud" worth hundreds of millions of dollars, some in connection with the 11 September attacks.
The accused allegedly collected tens of thousands of dollars a year in social security disability benefits, which are funded by taxpayers.
It is alleged they claimed they were completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments.
But, according to court documents, they were in fact living normal lives, one of the accused flew a helicopter, while another played blackjack in Las Vegas.
One of the accused taught and performed mixed martial arts, but was still claiming benefits of typically between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (€22,000-€37,000).
In some instances, the total amount fraudulently obtained was nearly $500,000 (€367,000) per applicant.
Of those indicted in the decades-long scam, 80 were retired New York police officers or firefighters.
"Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11, dishonouring the first responders who did serve their city at the expense of their own health and safety," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a statement.
As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities in order to collect benefit payments in addition to their public pensions, the indictment and court documents showed.
Prosecutors said the applicants claimed they suffered from a psychiatric condition that prevented them from working, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety or depression.
"This alleged scam further depleted the already limited resources available for battling the real and complex conditions of PTSD and depression," Mr Vance said.
New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said: "The retired members of the NYPD indicted in this case have disgraced all first responders who perished during the search and rescue efforts on September 11, 2001, and those who subsequently died from 9/11 related illness, by exploiting their involvements that tragic day for personal gain."
Mr Hale and Mr Esposito, the latter a retired member of the NYPD, allegedly coached benefit applicants to falsely describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors they had recruited.
They instructed applicants on how to fail memory tests with plausibility, how to dress, and on their demeanour.
For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company".

How could false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

And flying a helicopter, playing blackjack in Las Vegas and performing mixed martial arts is hardly living a 'normal life', is it?

Some people would consider some or even all of these activities nuts and proof of PTSD.

(Not me, I'd love to play blackjack while perfuming martial arts in a helicopter.)

If you had highlighted just the one word instead of the complete first sentence you could have answered your own question!

Ok try this, How could SOME false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

Maybe the decades old scam has been ongoing for decades?

It might be hard to claim PTSD for 911 if you had already retired 'completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments' decades earlier.

[LeoMc]

Former New York police officers and firefighters were among 106 people charged over a "massive fraud" worth hundreds of millions of dollars, some in connection with the 11 September attacks.
The accused allegedly collected tens of thousands of dollars a year in social security disability benefits, which are funded by taxpayers.
It is alleged they claimed they were completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments.
But, according to court documents, they were in fact living normal lives, one of the accused flew a helicopter, while another played blackjack in Las Vegas.
One of the accused taught and performed mixed martial arts, but was still claiming benefits of typically between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (€22,000-€37,000).
In some instances, the total amount fraudulently obtained was nearly $500,000 (€367,000) per applicant.
Of those indicted in the decades-long scam, 80 were retired New York police officers or firefighters.
"Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11, dishonouring the first responders who did serve their city at the expense of their own health and safety," Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said in a statement.
As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities in order to collect benefit payments in addition to their public pensions, the indictment and court documents showed.
Prosecutors said the applicants claimed they suffered from a psychiatric condition that prevented them from working, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety or depression.
"This alleged scam further depleted the already limited resources available for battling the real and complex conditions of PTSD and depression," Mr Vance said.
New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said: "The retired members of the NYPD indicted in this case have disgraced all first responders who perished during the search and rescue efforts on September 11, 2001, and those who subsequently died from 9/11 related illness, by exploiting their involvements that tragic day for personal gain."
Mr Hale and Mr Esposito, the latter a retired member of the NYPD, allegedly coached benefit applicants to falsely describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors they had recruited.
They instructed applicants on how to fail memory tests with plausibility, how to dress, and on their demeanour.
For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company".

How could false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

And flying a helicopter, playing blackjack in Las Vegas and performing mixed martial arts is hardly living a 'normal life', is it?

Some people would consider some or even all of these activities nuts and proof of PTSD.

(Not me, I'd love to play blackjack while perfuming martial arts in a helicopter.)

If you had highlighted just the one word instead of the complete first sentence you could have answered your own question!

Ok try this, How could SOME false claims arising out of 911 be part of a decades old scam?

Maybe the decades old scam has been ongoing for decades?

It might be hard to claim PTSD for 911 if you had already retired 'completely incapacitated by serious psychiatric disorders and other ailments' decades earlier.

Not all are claiming their illness was as as result of 11/9, some claims are for earlier "trauma" some may be for later "traumas"

As far back as 1988, the four main defendants - Raymond Lavallee, 83, Thomas Hale, 89, Joseph Esposito, 64, and John Minerva, 61 - conspired to help or make hundreds of applicants falsely claim disabilities

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

[muppet]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

[LeoMc]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

[muppet]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

Here is an analogy for you: Can James, Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran be charged for their part in the 1953 season if fraud was found to have occurred then?

The article includes 911 for sensational purposes only.

Suing an officer for claiming PTSD for 911 probably wouldn't get very far and would hardly get much public support, probably the opposite. Especially if the only evidence was that he was seen at a table in Vegas, throws some punches or flies a helicopter form time to time.

Better to claim the practice is rife and part of a 'decades old scam' and tie it in with others who probably are guilty. Each case obviously  has to be tried on its own merit but reading that article you would't think so.

Read this ffs: "For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company."

And this work of genius succeeded for decades?

[LeoMc]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

Here is an analogy for you: Can James, Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran be charged for their part in the 1953 season if fraud was found to have occurred then?

The article includes 911 for sensational purposes only.

Suing an officer for claiming PTSD for 911 probably wouldn't get very far and would hardly get much public support, probably the opposite. Especially if the only evidence was that he was seen at a table in Vegas, throws some punches or flies a helicopter form time to time.

Better to claim the practice is rife and part of a 'decades old scam' and tie it in with others who probably are guilty. Each case obviously  has to be tried on its own merit but reading that article you would't think so.

Read this ffs: "For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company."

And this work of genius succeeded for decades?

The exact same point I was trying to get to. It is why I highlighted the SOME in my very first reply.
I took from your comments/arguments that you were trying to lump them all together.

[muppet]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

Here is an analogy for you: Can James, Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran be charged for their part in the 1953 season if fraud was found to have occurred then?

The article includes 911 for sensational purposes only.

Suing an officer for claiming PTSD for 911 probably wouldn't get very far and would hardly get much public support, probably the opposite. Especially if the only evidence was that he was seen at a table in Vegas, throws some punches or flies a helicopter form time to time.

Better to claim the practice is rife and part of a 'decades old scam' and tie it in with others who probably are guilty. Each case obviously  has to be tried on its own merit but reading that article you would't think so.

Read this ffs: "For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company."

And this work of genius succeeded for decades?

The exact same point I was trying to get to. It is why I highlighted the SOME in my very first reply.
I took from your comments/arguments that you were trying to lump them all together.

FFS then you took the complete opposite of my point.

[LeoMc]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

Here is an analogy for you: Can James, Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran be charged for their part in the 1953 season if fraud was found to have occurred then?

The article includes 911 for sensational purposes only.

Suing an officer for claiming PTSD for 911 probably wouldn't get very far and would hardly get much public support, probably the opposite. Especially if the only evidence was that he was seen at a table in Vegas, throws some punches or flies a helicopter form time to time.

Better to claim the practice is rife and part of a 'decades old scam' and tie it in with others who probably are guilty. Each case obviously  has to be tried on its own merit but reading that article you would't think so.

Read this ffs: "For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company."

And this work of genius succeeded for decades?

The exact same point I was trying to get to. It is why I highlighted the SOME in my very first reply.
I took from your comments/arguments that you were trying to lump them all together.

FFS then you took the complete opposite of my point.

You had a point?

[muppet]

Many participants cynically manufactured claims of mental illness as a result of September 11

Yes but they weren't part of a decades old scam, were they?

They were part of a scam which has been going on for decades, albeit they joined late.
As an anology for you, James Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran are part of a decades old wait for Sam. They were not part of it in 1953 but they are now part of that decades long wait for Sam.

Here is an analogy for you: Can James, Horan, Cillian O'Connor & Andy Moran be charged for their part in the 1953 season if fraud was found to have occurred then?

The article includes 911 for sensational purposes only.

Suing an officer for claiming PTSD for 911 probably wouldn't get very far and would hardly get much public support, probably the opposite. Especially if the only evidence was that he was seen at a table in Vegas, throws some punches or flies a helicopter form time to time.

Better to claim the practice is rife and part of a 'decades old scam' and tie it in with others who probably are guilty. Each case obviously  has to be tried on its own merit but reading that article you would't think so.

Read this ffs: "For example, almost every claim included phrases such as "I nap on and off during the day" and "I have the TV on to keep me company."

And this work of genius succeeded for decades?

The exact same point I was trying to get to. It is why I highlighted the SOME in my very first reply.
I took from your comments/arguments that you were trying to lump them all together.

FFS then you took the complete opposite of my point.

You had a point?

Yea, the goal was on but there is this voice in my head........