Lillis sentenced

[brokencrossbar1]

He still fought the case.  This is an issue that often arises in these types of cases and it is one where a clear direction should be made.  To me this was never a murder charge.  He killed her, but there was not real intent to kill her and he should have been given the opportunity to plead guilty to a manslaughter charge earlier in proceedings.  He would never have beaten it and the likelihood of him being convicted of murder was small.  the prosecution wasted money and resources in this case as they do in many others by aiming too high, and that is something that needs to be addressed.

It was the job of the procecution to make an offer based on the case they had and the defence to accept or reject it based on the defence they have. A deal to plead guilty wasn't reached and the procectution decided to fight for murder. They lost. If the procecution had have agreed to manslaughter plea and a minimum of 9 years the defence might have took it and plead guilty. They didn't. They might have offerd 11 years and the defence though it was too much. Who knows? The point is you can't get a sentence for a crime you are found not guilty off.

I agree with you.  The point I am making is that I do not think that they should have persued the murder charge.  i think that the prosecution got this wrong.  If they had offered a deal like you are suggesting then the case would have been dealt out.  As they didn't the case was fought to the end.  When a case is fought to the end the judge genrally takes that into consideration when sentencing, irrespective of the final offence the person is convicted of.  There is a difficulty in the way the system works in that the offender can be found innocent of murder but guilty of manslaughter.  I believe that in this type of case it is incumbent on the prosecution to determine what they have the evidence for.  If the believe they cannot prove murder beyond doubt then they should not go down that road.  There should not be an either or when it comes to the verdict time.

SHore, I thought you were comparing the two cases and saying that because Lilis was not a Dublin working class man he got off lightly. 

[Zapatista]

I agree with you.  The point I am making is that I do not think that they should have persued the murder charge.  i think that the prosecution got this wrong.  If they had offered a deal like you are suggesting then the case would have been dealt out.  As they didn't the case was fought to the end.  When a case is fought to the end the judge genrally takes that into consideration when sentencing, irrespective of the final offence the person is convicted of.  There is a difficulty in the way the system works in that the offender can be found innocent of murder but guilty of manslaughter.  I believe that in this type of case it is incumbent on the prosecution to determine what they have the evidence for.  If the believe they cannot prove murder beyond doubt then they should not go down that road.  There should not be an either or when it comes to the verdict time.

That would be the case if he was found guilty of the charge. eg. if I am being procectuted for robbing a bank and fight the charge and am found not guilty the judge can't give me a sentance or even consider it for fighting the case as I'm not guilty. I get to go home.

[pintsofguinness]

Until someone else pushes my buttons. That's the thing, people who are capable of murder would always be a threat.
If you don't think this boy is a threat anymore you'd be happy for him to start going with your sister or something?

Are we talking about the same case? He wasn't found guilty of murder.

I never thought about him being in my life. To be honest I think there are people who have caused deaths in my life., Some I trust and some I don't.

Ok, I'll change that.  People who are capable of beating their wives around the head, as she lay on the ground, are always going to be a threat. 

[Zapatista]

Ok, I'll change that.  People who are capable of beating their wives around the head, as she lay on the ground, are always going to be a threat.

You're still implying murder which is muddying the point. I don't know if he murdered his wife or not I'm only discussing the sentence for the crime he was found guilty off. If you want to discuss murder give me an example of the murder and the sentence and quiz me on that. I'm not going to us this media trial complain about the lack of punishment in the justice system. I don't know what the statisitics in Ireland for reoffending muderers is but I'd imagine it very low for reoffending manslaugher.

[pintsofguinness]

Ok, I'll change that.  People who are capable of beating their wives around the head, as she lay on the ground, are always going to be a threat.

You're still implying murder which is muddying the point. I don't know if he murdered his wife or not I'm only discussing the sentence for the crime he was found guilty off. If you want to discuss murder give me an example of the murder and the sentence and quiz me on that. I'm not going to us this media trial complain about the lack of punishment in the justice system. I don't know what the statisitics in Ireland for reoffending muderers is but I'd imagine it very low for reoffending manslaugher.

It doesnt matter what he was convicted of.
He beat his wife around the head as she lay on the ground, she died. You think he shouldn't go to jail because he's unlikely to do it again, I bet that's a risk you wouldn't take if he was around your own family although regardless of whether he's likely to do it again or not he should be in jail, as a punishment.   

[Zapatista]

It doesnt matter what he was convicted of.
He beat his wife around the head as she lay on the ground, she died. You think he shouldn't go to jail because he's unlikely to do it again, I bet that's a risk you wouldn't take if he was around your own family although regardless of whether he's likely to do it again or not he should be in jail, as a punishment.

If I was in the court I might agree with you. If it doesn't matter what he was convicted of then I have nothing to say about this case. I didn't get involved in any debate on this popular topic before the sentence as I know enough to know I know nothing about it.