There's no sentiment in football but this is sad / bad !

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Clubs spending way above their means on wages

Clubs have tried hard over the last 6 years, the LOI standard has improved.
In the last year, income for clubs has dropped because of less money floating around,
less sponsorship, harder to raise cash through the usual means.

They are basically pissing against the wind, trying to attract a few thousand people off their tv induced zombie state of supporting football from the stool or sofa. 
Irish people are virtual fans when it comes to soccer, have not got a clue what real support or real rivalry means in club football.

Main street, listened to a guy from the Derry Journal the other day, he was saying that Derry had been projecting their income and salaries against getting home attendances of approx 2,500, infact with poor results and economic climate that figure was between 1,200 -1,400 leaving them with a massive gap in their wages.

Leo i think that your right, an AIFL is the only way forward, having attended a few Cliftonville matches this year the crowds are not there to support two professional/semi pro leagues on this island.

[Rav67]

I think a 2/3 seasons ago they were averaging around 4k which was the highest in the league.  Moving to NI league would mean lest travelling and accomodation costs, but I reckon crowds could drop further as the standard is significantly lower in the NI league.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I think a 2/3 seasons ago they were averaging around 4k which was the highest in the league.  Moving to NI league would mean lest travelling and accomodation costs, but I reckon crowds could drop further as the standard is significantly lower in the NI league.

But if you combine leagues:
Cliftonville v Bohs
Derry v Glentoran
St Pats v Linfield
Shamrock Rovers v Portadown
Cork v Crusaders

Combinations like these are bound to attract more people and TV revenue, the island has a population of over 6 million, now that size of a country can and should be able to sustain a professional league.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

I think a 2/3 seasons ago they were averaging around 4k which was the highest in the league.  Moving to NI league would mean lest travelling and accomodation costs, but I reckon crowds could drop further as the standard is significantly lower in the NI league.

But if you combine leagues:
Cliftonville v Bohs
Derry v Glentoran
St Pats v Linfield
Shamrock Rovers v Portadown
Cork v Crusaders

Combinations like these are bound to attract more people and TV revenue, the island has a population of over 6 million, now that size of a country can and should be able to sustain a professional league.

Why are they bound to attract more people? The Setanta hasn't dramatically increased crowds even with the novelty factor. A county of Ireland's size may well be fit to sustain a professional league but while soccer devotees continue to prefer heading off to Glasgow or England, such a league simply will not happen. That is the fundamental problem Irish soccer faces.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I think a 2/3 seasons ago they were averaging around 4k which was the highest in the league.  Moving to NI league would mean lest travelling and accomodation costs, but I reckon crowds could drop further as the standard is significantly lower in the NI league.

But if you combine leagues:
Cliftonville v Bohs
Derry v Glentoran
St Pats v Linfield
Shamrock Rovers v Portadown
Cork v Crusaders

Combinations like these are bound to attract more people and TV revenue, the island has a population of over 6 million, now that size of a country can and should be able to sustain a professional league.

Why are they bound to attract more people? The Setanta hasn't dramatically increased crowds even with the novelty factor. A county of Ireland's size may well be fit to sustain a professional league but while soccer devotees continue to prefer heading off to Glasgow or England, such a league simply will not happen. That is the fundamental problem Irish soccer faces.

I would have thought that it was pretty obvious why!
Given a choice as which game to attend - Crusaders v Lisburn Distillary or Linfield v Shamrock Rovers hmmmm...... tough one all right.

[Gnevin]

If ever proof was needed that Ireland is too small for professioanl sport it is the continuing farce of the LOI.

Leisnter averaging 16k at home games often see 18k, Current  Heineken Cup champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Munster  averaging 11k at home games often see 24k, Current Magners league champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Ulster averaging 10k at home games often see more.
Connacht  development team IRFU need to raise the profile of this team.

Ireland grand slam champions

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

If ever proof was needed that Ireland is too small for professioanl sport it is the continuing farce of the LOI.

Leisnter averaging 16k at home games often see 18k, Current   HeinekenCup champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Munster  averaging 11k at home games often see 24k, Current Magners league champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Ulster averaging 10k at home games often see more.
Connacht  development team IRFU need to raise the profile of this team.

Ireland grand slam champions

Rugby's slightly different in that the Irish sides only survive as professional entitits because they can link up with other countries. 3 or 4 viable professional entities (are Connacht viable?) would not be enough to support a professional league in Ireland.

[Gnevin]

If ever proof was needed that Ireland is too small for professioanl sport it is the continuing farce of the LOI.

Leisnter averaging 16k at home games often see 18k, Current   HeinekenCup champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Munster  averaging 11k at home games often see 24k, Current Magners league champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Ulster averaging 10k at home games often see more.
Connacht  development team IRFU need to raise the profile of this team.

Ireland grand slam champions

Rugby's slightly different in that the Irish sides only survive as professional entitits because they can link up with other countries. 3 or 4 viable professional entities (are Connacht viable?) would not be enough to support a professional league in Ireland.

Connacht  are viable the IRFU should stop taking the piss and give them a fair share of the pie . Ireland has the players to have 4 teams.

Surely there are more soccer fans in Ireland than Rugby fans. I suppose the majority of these are arm chair supporters.

Wouldn't 8 teams be viable in Ireland Dublin,Cork, Galway, Belfast, the rest of ... Ulster, Munster, Connacht  and Leinster

Why can't Irish teams join up with the Scots and the Welsh?

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

If ever proof was needed that Ireland is too small for professioanl sport it is the continuing farce of the LOI.

Leisnter averaging 16k at home games often see 18k, Current   HeinekenCup champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Munster  averaging 11k at home games often see 24k, Current Magners league champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Ulster averaging 10k at home games often see more.
Connacht  development team IRFU need to raise the profile of this team.

Ireland grand slam champions

Rugby's slightly different in that the Irish sides only survive as professional entitits because they can link up with other countries. 3 or 4 viable professional entities (are Connacht viable?) would not be enough to support a professional league in Ireland.

Connacht  are viable the IRFU should stop taking the piss and give them a fair share of the pie . Ireland has the players to have 4 teams.

Surely there are more soccer fans in Ireland than Rugby fans. I suppose the majority of these are arm chair supporters.

Wouldn't 8 teams be viable in Ireland Dublin,Cork, Galway, Belfast, the rest of ... Ulster, Munster, Connacht  and Leinster

Why can't Irish teams join up with the Scots and the Welsh?

They can and should but that doesn't make them a fair comparator with soccer where they simply wouldn't be allowed to. What is being said is that at the minute Ireland can't sustain a professional Irish soccer league. I doubt if a similar Rugby league would survive either though that's open to debate as nobody has ever tried it.

[Gnevin]

If ever proof was needed that Ireland is too small for professioanl sport it is the continuing farce of the LOI.

Leisnter averaging 16k at home games often see 18k, Current   HeinekenCup champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Munster  averaging 11k at home games often see 24k, Current Magners league champions . Made money above the money the IRFU gives them each year
Ulster averaging 10k at home games often see more.
Connacht  development team IRFU need to raise the profile of this team.

Ireland grand slam champions

Rugby's slightly different in that the Irish sides only survive as professional entitits because they can link up with other countries. 3 or 4 viable professional entities (are Connacht viable?) would not be enough to support a professional league in Ireland.

Connacht  are viable the IRFU should stop taking the piss and give them a fair share of the pie . Ireland has the players to have 4 teams.

Surely there are more soccer fans in Ireland than Rugby fans. I suppose the majority of these are arm chair supporters.

Wouldn't 8 teams be viable in Ireland Dublin,Cork, Galway, Belfast, the rest of ... Ulster, Munster, Connacht  and Leinster

Why can't Irish teams join up with the Scots and the Welsh?

They can and should but that doesn't make them a fair comparator with soccer where they simply wouldn't be allowed to. What is being said is that at the minute Ireland can't sustain a professional Irish soccer league. I doubt if a similar Rugby league would survive either though that's open to debate as nobody has ever tried it.

I was asking why can't Irish soccer teams join up with the Scots and the Welsh?

[deiseach]

Rugby is not a model for soccer in Ireland. If I remember correctly, the money from the ERC is split six ways. England and France are effectively subsidising rugby in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy. Good luck getting the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd to agree to a similar setup in soccer.

[Gnevin]

Rugby is not a model for soccer in Ireland. If I remember correctly, the money from the ERC is split six ways. England and France are effectively subsidising rugby in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy. Good luck getting the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd to agree to a similar setup in soccer.

It's the TV and any other direct 6N income that is shared which of course it would be. So England and France and not "effectively subsidising rugby in Ireland" or anywhere else . Ireland and Wales are just as important to the 6N as England or France

I think the 6-8 million per home game helps too and the fact that Munster and Leinster are running at a profit . Last I heard Munster, Leinster and Ulster got 5 million from the IFRU. So that will be generated in November leaving 24 million to be generated in the 6N . Plus sponsorship is not included in these figures 

[deiseach]

It's the TV and any other direct 6N income that is shared which of course it would be. So England and France and not "effectively subsidising rugby in Ireland" or anywhere else . Ireland and Wales are just as important to the 6N as England or France

TV money is going to be the lion's share of the revenue of any sports organisation, and no amount of pious statements about Ireland, Wales et al being just as important as England and France will disguise that 120 million-odd potential pairs of eyeballs are more valuable than 15 million-odd - and yes, I know Italy has a population close to that of England and France, but do you think advertisers view it that way?

[Myles Na G.]

It's not that Ireland can't support professional teams, it's that it's too small to support the number of professional soccer teams on the island.  And not only are there too many teams at the moment, but they're 3rd rate.Tens of thousands cross the water each week to watch Liverpool, Man Utd, Celtic and Rangers, so you can't blame apathy. One or two teams playing out of Dublin in a cross channel league, plus one from the Belfast area, and you'd have teams which would attract decent crowds every week.

[Gnevin]

It's the TV and any other direct 6N income that is shared which of course it would be. So England and France and not "effectively subsidising rugby in Ireland" or anywhere else . Ireland and Wales are just as important to the 6N as England or France

TV money is going to be the lion's share of the revenue of any sports organisation, and no amount of pious statements about Ireland, Wales et al being just as important as England and France will disguise that 120 million-odd potential pairs of eyeballs are more valuable than 15 million-odd - and yes, I know Italy has a population close to that of England and France, but do you think advertisers view it that way?

120 millions people aren't going to watch England play France week in week out. The other teams are  as important for the competition .