A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[Rossfan]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

[armaghniac]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

As usual,then.

[Substandard]

Dammit, thought I would have been in with a shout.
Ah well, back to the nonsense it is so...

[OakLeaf]

Of course part of the reason - and this won't go down well here - is that Sinn Fein constantly talk down the success of the 26 county state. To many the narrative is of a failed state. Yet one gets the sense the minute they govern for a few years in Dublin, it will suddenly be utopia, the best little country on earth. 

That's hardly unique to SF though. It's just standard politics. Any opposition seeking to be elected will criticise the job the incumbents have done. And of course you're right, as soon as they get into power everything will be rosey (even though it will hardly have changed any). Again, standard politics.

I've zero doubt that if the North voted for a UI, then the South would as well.

[imtommygunn]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

You mean the two posts that line up with your view?

Armaghniac i was involved in a conversation a few years ago and the general consensus in the conversation is that SF are not the nationalist party to deliver a united ireland. The problem is at the minute they are the only ones who have anywhere near any kind of clout to be doing it.

Northern nationalist does not mean a supporter of SF is something that a few people seem to have missed too.

Basically at the minute the politicians aren't there to deliver it (from the northern side). The ones on the southern side aren't going to drive it so the question is who really will.

[Snapchap]

Obviously, you don't get the same overall results in the north, but even among the 'nationalist' community, there seems to be a large element who aren't in favour of unity.

I mean, that's just factaully untrue. The latest Lucid Talk poll oin the topic found that 87% of natioanlist voters would vote for a united Ireland if a poll was held within the next week. I'll let you take a guess at what that number might rise to if the question was about a border poll in the next decade.

People in the south get labelled as traitors, west brits, blueshirts, free staters etc.

Only those for whom such labels fit.

If you're wondering why there's not a greater clamour for a border poll, maybe start by looking at yourselves.

Again, factually untrue. Lucid Talks poll found that 95% of nationalists want a border poll within the next two decades.

[Snapchap]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

Tubberman's entire argument is based around the idea than a large amount of natioanlists don't want a united Ireland and don't want a boder poll. Two completely fabricated claims which are both blown out of the water by the polling data. So how does that mean he's talking sense, Rossfan?

[gallsman]

People in the south get labelled as traitors, west brits, blueshirts, free staters etc.

Only those for whom such labels fit.

Given you're pointing out untruths, this is categorically untrue. Only a couple of pages ago we had an Armagh dickhead throw out the blueshirt insult whilst simultaneously demonstrating a clear lack of understanding of what it actually means. Same poster had previous described Kingsmill as "needing to happen" so I guess, as you say, if the shoe fits...

[armaghniac]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

Tubberman's entire argument is based around the idea than a large amount of natioanlists don't want a united Ireland and don't want a boder poll. Two completely fabricated claims which are both blown out of the water by the polling data. So how does that mean he's talking sense, Rossfan?

A lot of northern nationalists want a united Ireland in the same way I want to lose weight or Kildare want to win an All Ireland, i.e. they want it but are not willing to put in a bit of effort to get it.
A border poll without that effort will not work.

[Snapchap]

People in the south get labelled as traitors, west brits, blueshirts, free staters etc.

Only those for whom such labels fit.

Given you're pointing out untruths, this is categorically untrue. Only a couple of pages ago we had an Armagh dickhead throw out the blueshirt insult whilst simultaneously demonstrating a clear lack of understanding of what it actually means. Same poster had previous described Kingsmill as "needing to happen" so I guess, as you say, if the shoe fits...

You get touchy about terms like "blueshirt" and "free sateter" while throwing out the "nordie" insult multiple times per week, so forgive me if I take your pearl cluthing on that front with a large dollop of salt, but if you are trying to suggest that one "armagh dickhead" is representative of northern attitudes to the people in the 26, then you're not talking "facts", but rather, making sweeping generalisations based on one person. As for the alleged Kingsmill comment, I haven't seen it, and it would be a scummy comment if true, however I'm at a loss as to what that has to do with the topic being discussed.

Also, happy to retract your suggestion that Tubberman was repsonsible for "one of the most sensible posts" when his post was in fact based around two absolutely massive false claims?

[Tubberman]

I think this is probably the poll I remember reading about.
I see there has been a later poll, but I'm just recalling what I read, I'm not suggesting it's definitive.

Almost half of catholics were either against unity or undecided on the matter.

Those of a Catholic background were most in favour of unity, though only just over half (54 per cent) of all Catholic respondents said they would vote in favour, with 21 per cent against and 22 per cent undecided.

Northern Ireland rejects Irish unity by large margin, poll shows

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/03/poll-shows-northern-ireland-rejects-unity-by-large-margin/

[gallsman]

I call people nordies multiple times per week, do I?

Or perhaps, in your rush to fly off the handle yet again and continue your "how dare those free state bastards so much as question the purity of our cause" narrative have confused me with another poster?

As for the Kingsmill point, it was to serve the argument that maybe, just possibly maybe, someone from the 26 who gets called a blueshirt by someone on the record as thinking Kingsmill was necessary might not feel too much in common with them other than being born on the same island and that for them unity might just be more than the simple issue presented to them so frequently.

[imtommygunn]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

Tubberman's entire argument is based around the idea than a large amount of natioanlists don't want a united Ireland and don't want a boder poll. Two completely fabricated claims which are both blown out of the water by the polling data. So how does that mean he's talking sense, Rossfan?

A lot of northern nationalists want a united Ireland in the same way I want to lose weight or Kildare want to win an All Ireland, i.e. they want it but are not willing to put in a bit of effort to get it.
A border poll without that effort will not work.

What should the average everyday person do?

[Snapchap]

Tubberman and Armaghniac with the 2 most sensible posts tonight.

Tubberman's entire argument is based around the idea than a large amount of natioanlists don't want a united Ireland and don't want a boder poll. Two completely fabricated claims which are both blown out of the water by the polling data. So how does that mean he's talking sense, Rossfan?

A lot of northern nationalists want a united Ireland in the same way I want to lose weight or Kildare want to win an All Ireland, i.e. they want it but are not willing to put in a bit of effort to get it.
A border poll without that effort will not work.

lol wtf is that supposed to mean? Are we supposed to breed even harder? Or are we supposed to try to A border poll not only happenining, but passing, is merely a matter of time. The demographics are going on direction. The Catholic/Nationalist population is growing, and the Protestant/unionist one is aging and shrinking, and the rate of those trends is increasing.

[Rossfan]

This morning's postings are very interesting indeed.........

Some children can be harder to love than others.