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Surprise Surprise, Tyrone school casts net a bit wider to attract grade A footballers. Are we saying this ambition us wrong? Heaven forbid an Antrim school would ever start thinking like this!

Perhaps just annoyed that Antrim loses it's grade A footballers to schools like Magherafelt and St Ronan's Lurgan.

Maybe they are Grade A because they went to Magherafelt and Lurgan?  Apart from the grammar schools we also have to encourage our high schools and vocational schools.

There is a good point, a good number of our lads go to St Conor's, and although a Derry school their success is as important if not more to us as Saint Louis. 

Had a look into it last week and there are 42 teams in the MacRory(14),MacLarnon(16) and Markey(12) competitions.

We have 3 MacLarnon (Rathmore, St Marys CBS and St Louis) and 1 in the Markey (St Malachys Belfast).

Donegal has 9 teams across the 3 and it'd be interesting to look at their county squad and see which of these schools they came through.

Then you have Derry who have 5 schools competing but when you have Maghera and Magherafelt as two of them you are in a strong position.

As has been said before it's up to us in some of our clubs to up our game before we blame either school or county development squads.

St Louis perhaps have a hurling / football / soccer conundrum, CBS a soccer one.  What is it stops Rathmore and St Malachys launching as the go to development school in Belfast for education and GAA?    St Malachys has a grand tradition in the McRory Cup so what happened that it frittered away?  Can it be reignited?  Is CBS lost to soccer?  Rather  than targeting every school, Even the targeting of one GAA orientated school in Belfast and St Louis would bring dividends surely?

That would be an excellent start and something DOF and Games Development should have high up their list

Surprise Surprise, Tyrone school casts net a bit wider to attract grade A footballers. Are we saying this ambition us wrong? Heaven forbid an Antrim school would ever start thinking like this!

Perhaps just annoyed that Antrim loses it's grade A footballers to schools like Magherafelt and St Ronan's Lurgan.

Maybe they are Grade A because they went to Magherafelt and Lurgan?  Apart from the grammar schools we also have to encourage our high schools and vocational schools.

There is a good point, a good number of our lads go to St Conor's, and although a Derry school their success is as important if not more to us as Saint Louis. 

Had a look into it last week and there are 42 teams in the MacRory(14),MacLarnon(16) and Markey(12) competitions.

We have 3 MacLarnon (Rathmore, St Marys CBS and St Louis) and 1 in the Markey (St Malachys Belfast).

Donegal has 9 teams across the 3 and it'd be interesting to look at their county squad and see which of these schools they came through.

Then you have Derry who have 5 schools competing but when you have Maghera and Magherafelt as two of them you are in a strong position.

As has been said before it's up to us in some of our clubs to up our game before we blame either school or county development squads.

Agree clubs can/must up the game  Schools and development squads play a big part as well. Most rural clubs have peaks and troughs in numbers. Mixing and playing with a higher and more competitive standard of player plus what should be a higher standard of coaching pulls everyone up.
Average players develop into good players... Good players develop into Very Good...

As for Donegal.... Historically they did well at County Vocational level. There school numbers would be relatively small but they are competitive at lower levels. They have been very strong for many years with regards to development squads and were way ahead of most on this.

Take a look at Letterkenny IT Sigerson team who beat a star studded UCD team..... 15 starters all from Donegal got beat by a late goal by finalists Nuig.

Different model that works for them

Unfortunately apart from the odd exception neither schools or development squad model works in Antrim

Great to be at a high level game like that and see the club names Cargin, Moneyglass and Portglenone beside players names in the programme. Can only be a good thing. Can we not talk Brady into taking our minors or U20s at some point. Would love to see it.

EOC yes good to see. Over the last number of years with St Mary's. St Pats & St Ronans there have been a good 15 - 20 guys who have had the benefit of football at this level. On KB  I'm not sure you could replicate what they do by just taking a team. The setup they have seems to nurture and develop guys over a 6-7 year period. They don't win much down the school but they shape and mould to get themselves in good shape for Macrory. If we could get him or someone like him to head up underage development with the output being competitive U17 & 20 teams. Someone like him could get/attract good quality coaches and put a plan/pathway in place to develop good rounded players. This is sadly lacking and is a big piece of the jigsaw. Maybe this is part of the Director of footballs remit. I wonder was KB approached for DOF.

[Shows what can be done with forward vision and a bit of hard work]

Following on our discussion last week re schools development, Holy Trinity Cookstown continue to break the mould for smashing tradition and creating their own by beating St Pat's Maghera and making it through to their first ever McRory cup final.

It's John McKeever and Peter Canavan versus Kevin Brady and Ronan Devlin in the battle along the line. Plenty of Antrim interest going on there too!

Shows what can be done with forward vision and a bit of hard work. Maybe some of our schools can channel that energy into something positive in next few years.

And an "interesting" recruitment policy.

Teachers, Pupils or Both ?

CJ has been a serious talent in the making for a good few years now. Has been standout in every team he has been on.
Has another year at that level as well. If he continues to develop he will be a serious player at the highest level.
A word for the coaching ticket there as well. A well prepared team.

A Ronan Devlin part funded by schools part funded by county would definitely make some difference. That's for sure. That's the action plan that is coming out if this, for me anyway. Maybe a company sponsor would chi in too, make it a three way payment arrangement.

Tbh, not having a pop here, but this needs to be something GA can deliver if he's serious about making a difference.

As far as I know Ronan came in on a scheme either partially funded by Derry or Ulster as a coaching development officer. He then left for a year to do a PGDip (I think that is what it is). He is now a full time teacher in the school. They have had 1 or 2 others in as well.

Not many Ronan's around though and you need to get All Saints at full throttle to feed numbes and base line quality in... Supplement with a handful from 8 _ 10 surrounding clubs and you have a mini St Mary's setup. Could SW Antrim create a special project and get it of the ground get buy in from clubs as they will all stand to gain

[For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately]

Simply if St Louis is to thrive at football you need to convince the parents to send their kids there to get quality education (which it is known for) AND quality football education (which it is not known for).

In the 'hotbed' of SW football - the vast majority of parents of Cargin, Creggan, Moneyglass, Tir na nOg send their kids to South Derry Schools - St Marys, St Pats and St Pius, with sizeable numbers from PG1, Ahoghill and Antrim Town also following suit - all 3 schools now have a highly visible GAA culture within the school and a constant presence of the status of football.   For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately and are known in the area as for their academic excellence only - hardly a slight but GAA mad parents see the south derry schools as a major 2 for 1 offer which can only assist their children.

Lots of promotional work needed in the primary schools allied to a huge promotion within the school

Because football is essentially the third game in the school behind hurling and soccer???

If you live the South West and football is a significant factor in where you want to send your son to school, as many posters here have already said, you send your child to Maghera or Magherafelt. If all the "good" footballers are already going to Derry schools, how do you realistically expect St Louis to address that situation?

How do you think St Mary's Magherafelt turned it around from being an academic school only reputation to a school noted for both? They changed the ethos, culture, support, recognition and status within the school, and recruited intelligently for those delivering the sporting codes in both male and female codes - brothers and sisters both would come rather than splitting between St Pats and St Marys.  Initially, before St Pius began A-Levels,  they also assisted greatly those who were coming from St Pius high school to do A-Levels thus boosting their own playing nrs from a school which also had a strong football tradition.  (Unsure whether St Louis have this close relationship with St Pats Ballymena, kilrea, killians or Lourdes Ballymoney etc etc.) 

It wont happen overnight but it can happen with the correct planning and foresight. St Marys is the example of how.

Spike above all true but one of the biggest drivers was the focus on underage development at Magherafelt (Rossas).

They really drove the underage development and it mean't St Mary's had a core of 10 to 15 lads virtually every year who were very competitive and successful at underage in Derry. This underpinned the panel and with surrounding clubs providing a handful each you got a very competitive setup. Thus coupled with the points you made developed them from a McLarnon school to a competitive Macrory team. They also got and accepted additional coaching expertise.

There is no reason a similar model wouldn't work with Ballymena being the underpin due to scale and numbers. Despite good work being done at All Saints it hasn't fallen into place. The missing piece may be a top class experienced underage development coach being funded and pitched into the mix.

The pieces of the jigsaw are there they just need to be put together over a period of time

[For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately]

Simply if St Louis is to thrive at football you need to convince the parents to send their kids there to get quality education (which it is known for) AND quality football education (which it is not known for).

In the 'hotbed' of SW football - the vast majority of parents of Cargin, Creggan, Moneyglass, Tir na nOg send their kids to South Derry Schools - St Marys, St Pats and St Pius, with sizeable numbers from PG1, Ahoghill and Antrim Town also following suit - all 3 schools now have a highly visible GAA culture within the school and a constant presence of the status of football.   For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately and are known in the area as for their academic excellence only - hardly a slight but GAA mad parents see the south derry schools as a major 2 for 1 offer which can only assist their children.

Lots of promotional work needed in the primary schools allied to a huge promotion within the school

Because football is essentially the third game in the school behind hurling and soccer???

If you live the South West and football is a significant factor in where you want to send your son to school, as many posters here have already said, you send your child to Maghera or Magherafelt. If all the "good" footballers are already going to Derry schools, how do you realistically expect St Louis to address that situation?

If you look at the Maghera & Magherafelt squads  and teams there would be a small proportion from Antrim clubs most years but not big numbers. The chicken and egg situation is for St Louis to attract some of the guys who would go to the South Derry schools and also some of the guys who go to  St Killians. Become consistently competitive at B level and work from there. There will always be some guys who go to the South Derry schools but every school be it Down Armagh Tyrone etc have players who cross borders and catchment aeeas. Maximise the available talent and they won't be far awsy

[St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.]

So as ITG says is it chicken and egg?  I still beleive we have to go back to the clubs here. If clubs were supplying players of high standard to St Marys St Louis etc we would be competing in A grade Year 8 competitions and then the poor quality of Gaa progression that Bannside says is happening at St Louis would kick in and everything would go all pete tong from there on.

Elephant in the room is the utter failure of Belfast based schools in major college competitions over the past generation.....
A major city with a population 600k and schools within cannot make a dent I'm Mc Crory cup...

St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.

So why is it not winning McCrorys Flanker?

I would settle for business end of McLarnon on a regular basis. I believe this should be achievable given the catchment area and a small amount of focus and drive.

Would you not think that is a reasonable goal ?

On MacRorys that would require a much broader approach in ground up coaching at club level delivering a higher calibre player into the school.

It would require support from S/W and Antrim Board to support the school with regard to High quality coaching.

The top level schools are using additional outside resources funded or partially funded by other sources (Not sure if this is county or Ulster funded. Appreciate this may have been difficult over the last couple of years with less funds available)

[Don't forget they are surrounded by multiple schools drawing from / overlapping the catchment area]

Agreed on results but there is definitely more GAA in the school than ever and that now has to be moved on to the next level.

You raised St Ronans who have risen to a great level but there are big differences there with St Louis and that's not just on the staff side.  They do have the likes of Mickey Donnelly driving the thing

What are the big differences ? Don't forget they are surrounded by multiple schools drawing from / overlapping the catchment area

They do have the likes of Mickey Donnelly driving the thing. Not sure everyone would agree with this

[St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.]

So as ITG says is it chicken and egg?  I still beleive we have to go back to the clubs here. If clubs were supplying players of high standard to St Marys St Louis etc we would be competing in A grade Year 8 competitions and then the poor quality of Gaa progression that Bannside says is happening at St Louis would kick in and everything would go all pete tong from there on.

Elephant in the room is the utter failure of Belfast based schools in major college competitions over the past generation.....
A major city with a population 600k and schools within cannot make a dent I'm Mc Crory cup...

St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.

[Agree both clubs have strong underage structures]

I'd love to know what St Louis are doing to promote football. I don't see any evidence of it anywhere. Gearoid Adams was appointed to oversee this project but that didn't work out very well before he departed for a job closer to home.

I know that the school principal was disappointed that this project fell through and from what I see no one else has revived it since. I wouldn't be holding St Louis up as any kind of shining example Dreen, you are clutching at straws here and you know that. In my book NO Antrim school is punching anywhere near its weight in football terms. For hurling there is always the Antrim Hurling Page where people can wax lyrical if they want!

I'm clutching at nothing BS, I stated fact.  There is a greater Gaelic Games ethos in St Louis than there was 20 years ago when for years soccer was pushed before anything.
The hurling will be strong due to the Dunloy and Loughgiel in the school quite simply.
There is no doubt that football there has room for progression but with the facilities already there and the new development taking place this year no one can doubt the background work being done to promote in St Louis.

There is a Senior county camog, a multiple derry championship winning hurling and football player, a current Antrim senior player, a county u20 hurling coach with his share of success in club hurling, and Hogan winning captain involved with teams in the school at present and I see that as positive.

You hail Holy Trinity and rightly so but firstly they don't have to work with hurling and they are surrounded by football clubs who we know are working at a higher level than some of our clubs.


See the virtual tour below on twitter


https://twitter.com/i/status/1486456710566920202

The hurling will be strong due to the Dunloy and Loughgiel in the school quite simply. Agree both clubs have strong underage structures

You hail Holy Trinity and rightly so but firstly they don't have to work with hurling and they are surrounded by football clubs who we know are working at a higher level than some of our clubs.

There are 3 schools in Tyrone competing @MacRory level(all got out of group stage) who draw and overlap with some or all of their catchement area + some pupils in their catchment area go to St Marys

There are several schools in their catchment area competing @ B & C levels also.

In football terms I will accept correction on this but as BS has indicated there is little or no evidence of progression from a results perspective than when there were 0, 1, 2 .... teachers half interested.  This is B competition as well

FYI St Ronans who won MacRory & Hogan don't have a pitch @ all so 3G's & virtual tours are all excellent but I'm afraid it misses the point of significant under achievement.

Progress in Hurling (This is effectively B competition as Ulster doesn't compete @ A)  Camogie & Ladies football is very welcome but there is a long way to go

Key question, do pupils have to all pass a transfer test to get to these A schools?

I am not in anyway saying St Louis are cutting the mustard in football, anyone who has ever discussed it with me would know I think it has underachieved.  I was lucky enough to have some very good footballing days at the school in the 90's when we had no facilities but I'd make the point that if the school is looking for a presence in the school to drive success in B football with the infrastructure that is there it would be a great job for someone to take.

Key question, do pupils have to all pass a transfer test to get to these A schools?
I would think for  Dungannon, Omagh, St Marys,  yes Donaghmore in B I would think yes others I don't know


There is a greater Gaelic Games ethos in St Louis than there was 20 years ago No evidence that I can see in Football I would think if you looked at the previous 20 years on the results side they would be at worst equal and probably better. I would be happy to be corrected in this as I'm going on memory This was when there was a negative ethos if there is such a thing

[Agree both clubs have strong underage structures]

I'd love to know what St Louis are doing to promote football. I don't see any evidence of it anywhere. Gearoid Adams was appointed to oversee this project but that didn't work out very well before he departed for a job closer to home.

I know that the school principal was disappointed that this project fell through and from what I see no one else has revived it since. I wouldn't be holding St Louis up as any kind of shining example Dreen, you are clutching at straws here and you know that. In my book NO Antrim school is punching anywhere near its weight in football terms. For hurling there is always the Antrim Hurling Page where people can wax lyrical if they want!

I'm clutching at nothing BS, I stated fact.  There is a greater Gaelic Games ethos in St Louis than there was 20 years ago when for years soccer was pushed before anything.
The hurling will be strong due to the Dunloy and Loughgiel in the school quite simply.
There is no doubt that football there has room for progression but with the facilities already there and the new development taking place this year no one can doubt the background work being done to promote in St Louis.

There is a Senior county camog, a multiple derry championship winning hurling and football player, a current Antrim senior player, a county u20 hurling coach with his share of success in club hurling, and Hogan winning captain involved with teams in the school at present and I see that as positive.

You hail Holy Trinity and rightly so but firstly they don't have to work with hurling and they are surrounded by football clubs who we know are working at a higher level than some of our clubs.


See the virtual tour below on twitter


https://twitter.com/i/status/1486456710566920202

The hurling will be strong due to the Dunloy and Loughgiel in the school quite simply. Agree both clubs have strong underage structures

You hail Holy Trinity and rightly so but firstly they don't have to work with hurling and they are surrounded by football clubs who we know are working at a higher level than some of our clubs.

There are 3 schools in Tyrone competing @MacRory level(all got out of group stage) who draw and overlap with some or all of their catchement area + some pupils in their catchment area go to St Marys

There are several schools in their catchment area competing @ B & C levels also.

In football terms I will accept correction on this but as BS has indicated there is little or no evidence of progression from a results perspective than when there were 0, 1, 2 .... teachers half interested.  This is B competition as well

FYI St Ronans who won MacRory & Hogan don't have a pitch @ all so 3G's & virtual tours are all excellent but I'm afraid it misses the point of significant under achievement.

Progress in Hurling (This is effectively B competition as Ulster doesn't compete @ A)  Camogie & Ladies football is very welcome but there is a long way to go

[for whatever reason]

I wouldn't be getting to hung up on the sigerson lads. If you ever listened to Tomas O Se podcast you would hear his prediction that it is a dying competition with no room on the calendar. For what it's worth I'd say there no players unearthed at Sigerson therefore unless you are an underage star and a recognised name arriving at uni you won't playing that or you are an established player and college seeks you, reality is very few Antrim players for whatever reason fall in to this category. I would also say Antrim always seem to have a higher than average number of players travelling to England and the South for uni, maybe already experienced the bright lights of Belfast!!

MacRory

Thomas O Se is a big supporter of Sigerson and giving it a place in the Calendar.

If you haven' featured in McRory you are going to find it very difficult to make the cut at Sigerson. Not impossible but the odds are not stacked in your favour.

I'm tempted again to point out that next to no MacRory Cup focus in the counties schools is killing us, but for some reason a lot of posters just want to jump in and say we need to look at the clubs first.  But it's a fact, although I'm glad to see good SW representation in Maghera and Magherafelt teams this year - on course for a tasty final, but it's Derry who will gain most and QUB and UUJ teams will feature Derry strongly in next few years, as sure as night follows day. We'll have a couple of we're lucky.

We could do with getting competitive in the schools competitions that our schools are currently in first. We aren't within a country mile of being competitive at the business end of McCrory Cup. Having a couple of schools competitive at the business end of Mclarnon Cup would be a good start. Maybe win one and get to a final every 4 or 5 years would do for starters