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Mourne Rovers is right and the Tyrone goal was a sickening suckered punch. Without it we probably could have closed the gap to 3 or 4 points, we still would have lost but it wouldn'the have looked so bad and commentators would be talking about our fightback.

Where we lost it was the middle of second half where Owen Brannigan is right, the lads heads dropped and we were punished. Lesser teams (and we are one) find it hard to keep going for 70 minutes with full energy and determination when things look bleak. We fell into that. Tyrone through their experience do not stop they are relentless and confident in shooting. That's where we need to get to. The bright hope is that at least we did try to fightback.

No problem with your comments Surmfy. They are not wrong about the game. I'm just looking at why they are correct. But I don't think we need 3-4 forwards, we need our current forwards scoring confidently. We do not take direct chances. There is a hesitancy there. Tyrone are more ruthless with chances. Players need to have the confidence that the the second the score is on they just take it. Our boys don't show that. Tyrone do!

What I was saying is that we certainly were in a position to score more. Now it is about changing potential in confident scoring. We tend to overwork a clear scoring chance looking for a better one. Just take the score and come again.

When that happens not only will score more it also damages the oppositions confidence (which is what Tyrone did to us).

I would like to think that Burns sacraficed the league to prepare a team for the championship. Next year I hope he would use the league to practice becoming ruthless scorers. I would want to see us showing determined aggression in every game for the full 70. Then we would be ready for a real Ulster challenge.

I will repeat my view that man for man Down are not way behind Tyrone in basic skill level. It is confidence, belief, trust, and an ability to keep going for 70 minutes that I think we lack.

Also gonna repeat that Donegal were ripped apart by Armagh in 2010 and two years later were champions with all their All-stars having played in that game against Armagh.

The abuse all of the Celtic players took at the shithole that is Windsor Park,and in particular Brown,Griffiths and Sinclair,was unbelievable.I can well understand Griffiths wanting to rub it in.

Ah but that's the problem. Even you recognise it as rubbing it in. It wasn't a simple tribute to his oown fans it was an insult to the opposition fans. The rules (rightly or wrongly) don't allow for this.

Look UEFA are leaping on a chance to punish Griffiths to cover up the embarrasment that one of their officials chose to book a player for desiring to avoid being struck by a missile. So jump on Griffiths and sweep the ref decision under the carpet. Focus on his wrong to avoid dealing with the wrong that was done to him.

It's a pity he gave them an excuse.

I have a slightly different view to most people. In the first half we lived with Tyrone. Tyrone fans say that's only cos they had a bad first half. But funnily enough aparantly Armagh and Monaghan both played poorly against us!!

To win a team needs belief and confidence. For Tyrone that comes through their experience. For an underdog it needs to be proven during the match.

We missed some critical scores. In the first minute a great pass was put into Harrison and he let it bounce off him, Tyrone went down the field and scored. What would getting an easy quick score have done for our lads self belief?

We missed a goal chance in the last minute before half time and an easy point at the start of the second half. Four points would have given energy and belief back to Down. Would Tyrone have hit their purple patch so easily?

When Tyrone had that patch where they scored 7 consecutive points, we had four wides from fairly scoreable positions. The 9 point deficit that opened up caused our lads heads to drop. We failed to stay within a few points and the confidence sapped.

By the time our lads started to fight again it was too late but at least we saw some reaction. Then we were hit by a couple of sucker punches in the goals.

So my overall view remains that man for man our boys are not that far away from Tyrone for skills. But team confidence and belief leaves us 8 points behind. Tyrone are a machine that doesn't stop. We were only good when things were coming of for us and faltered when they weren't.

We missed a fair few scoreable chances and sometimes players passed up a scoring chance to move the ball to somone else. This only changes with confidence. It isn't a fundamental lack of skill.

Lots of what if's here I know. Lots of optimistic conjecture. But I really believe if they stick at it and learn to bring the energy and aggression of the first half to every minute of the game (especially when a good bit behind) then this Down team could win Ulster at least.

I really hope we get Armagh. Not becuase I think it is an easier game (or any other stupid arrogant statements like that) but becuase it would be a bit of craic being the second meeting in a single season. Something to get excited about becuase lets face it at the end of this game both teams have effectively finished their championship runs. One team goes home and the other will defo be out next round to Dublin. So this would be a tasty derby to enjoy.

I head down the M1 to the Castleblaney turn then head to Ballybay. But from here instead of Newbliss-Clones. I turn down to Cootehill and cut across onto the Cavan Road and enter Clones from the South. this is a bit of a longer route but much less cars which is more enjoyable. The main advantage is coming home. See everyone arrives at different times so getting in is not horrendous. But every car leaves at the same time, so the road becomes a car park. This way I am heading South and East where all the traffic wants to go North and north/East Joining back at Ballybay isn't too bad and the N53 after Castleblaney is no bother.

Whatever way it is best to park about a mile outside Clones or you will just be sitting in the car for about 2 hours afterwards not moving.

[Mayweather is a detestable piece of shit. A vulgar woman beating tax defaulter.]

I've no time for or interest in MMA but I can't help but admire what McGregor has done. Fair f**ks to him for talking his way into this fight and whether people believe it's a joke or a certainty you can be guaranteed he'll train and prepare as hard as possible. He's not just there to take the money.....he badly wants to win and will give a genuine effort. He probably doesn't have a prayer.

Mayweather is a detestable piece of shit. A vulgar woman beating tax defaulter. People are buying into this fight in the hope than McGregor can somehow, miraculously land one of those explosive lefts on this guys and spark him out.

I agree with this. He isn't even an exciting boxer to watch. he is a master for sure and if you are in to the finer skills of boxing then he is the textbook. But if you want excitement look elsewhere. Mayweather stands off and picks his punches to score points with as little impact on himself as possible. He is very proud of not having his face hit very often. Basically he employs the tactics of amateur boxing. In 14 fights over 12 years he has only stopped two fighters.

But in the confines of boxing rules he will take McGregor to pieces. This is a fighting format that is highly technical. McGregor has simply not got those technical skills. He never even had an adult boxing match at amateur level.

Now in the octagon, different story, I would rate it 50/50.

Mayweather said he didn't care where the fight was and McGregor started shouting from the side "you do care, you do care" It was like listening to a a child's playground retort, hilarious.

This Down side is seriously lacking in quality and man for man isn't close to the Tyrone team. If they were anyway decent, the run from the past few years wouldn't have happened

I don't agree.

Donegal got beat out the gate by Armagh in 2010 (2-14 to 0-11). Two years later they were All-Ireland champions and everyone was saying what great players they had. Of the team that was hammered by Armagh, 10 started the All-Ireland final and one came on as a sub. So 11 out of 15 players that were pilloried as rubbish just two years earlier were now champions. Also in 2012 Donegal won 8 All-stars and every single one of those guys started against Armagh in 2010.

So teams can have very good players and still get bad results. Down's plight may be due to bad players or may be due to bad application. I believe that it is he latter.

I deeply believe the individual talent is not that far apart. The application difference is enormous. Tyrone players play with a determination and focus that I can only admire. They have a belief that exemplifies what takes talent and makes it a winner.

If Down can produce  a similar performance to the Monaghan game then we will be close. I think that is a fair statement. We would be close enough to have a chance to take the game if we get the breaks. That performance was easily good enough to live with Tyrone.

The key question is IF?

Down produced a great display which proves only that they have the talent to do that. It does not prove that they can do it regularly. That is what makes Tyrone a better team. The fact that consistently Tyrone reach that level again and again. I deeply believe that man for man Down and Tyrone are very close in talent (S. Cavanagh is an exception)

Even with the same display as the Monaghan game we won't have any confidence of winning, just that we will be at least close enough to have a better than fair chance.

But we could easily revert to early season form and take a whupping. This is well possible.

Just home.

A great day out, over 5,000 at the match (seemed more to me) and Armagh fans must outnumbered the Westmeath fans by 3 to 1.

The referee had a bad day. Jamie shouldered the Westmeath player after the ball had gone, and the linesman called the ref over and got him black carded. Some might say that the linesman hadn't a baldy clue.

I thought really exciting match. Westmeath missed a bucket load of decent scoring chances, and whilst Armagh did at time over elaborate, they were trying to keep possession until a decent opening occurred.

Lots of good performaances all over the field, but Oisin's point was superb.

Didn'the see the game or the incident so only commenting on what you have said. but aren't you describing a player being taken-out off the ball after the ball has been played away, which is a black card offence?

Or was the ball cleared way up the pitch?

Was this any worse than losing to Lincoln Red Imps? How can any Celtic team or supporter gain any satisfaction from winning an SPL when Rangers are in disarray like this? I see Celtic struggled again tonight in Prague.God help us in the Champions League, we will be up against much stronger opposition than the likes of Prague and Rapid Vienna in the group stages,if we get there.

Firstly as an individual match it is not much worse than the Red Imps results. Red imps were rated 407 out of 456 while Niederkorn are rated 440 out of 453. So worse, but not much. The key thing is that they lost the tie not just the match. Celtic was a blip but had no lasting impact on progress. Rangers actually went out of Europe to the 14th lowest ranked club in the continent. So yeah, much worse because losing a match is embarrassing but losing the tie is humiliating.

As for Rangers not being a powerful team and that making league titles worthless. Well don't forget when Rangers won 9-in-a-row Celtic were in disarray. Celtic didn't even finish 2nd for 7 of those Rangers titles. And who generally finished 2nd for 5 of those titles? Yep, Aberdeen just like now. So this current run of titles is no less credible than the huns back in the 90's.

In 2012 we got to an Ulster final and were destroyed by 11 points. We hadn't really expected to be there but we would have considered ourselves better than the two teams we beat - Fermanagh and Monaghan (Fermanagh had just won Div 4 and Monaghan just relegated to Div3). Suddenly we came up against a genuine All-Ireland contender and were taken apart.

This year we edged two teams who generally speaking we were not expecting to beat, and one of them is a serious contender at Ulster level and was whispered for a September challenge. So I think that is progress and probably marks a difference in how we arrived at the Ulster Final.

In 2012 we were beat (hammered) by the eventual champions and also the runners up, probably the two best teams in the country at the time. I just don't see Tyrone up there right now. I think they are more of a decent outside bet.

Basically I don't see us having such a gap in standard as we did in 2012. Also we have pushed Tyrone several times in the championship. There is not the justification for people saying we will get hammered. But at the same time, there is justification for saying we are deserved underdogs and that Tyrone would be expected to win. Indeed we could take a hammering. But it is far from certain.

[No disrespect to Westmeath but Armagh should be winning this with 4-5 pts to spare]

No disrespect to Westmeath but Armagh should be winning this with 4-5 pts to spare, in general though Armagh do tend to make things difficult for themselves. A win here and build a bit of momentum it should boost confidence in the camp, If this happens Armagh need to take a bigger scalp somewhere along the lines and they're capable of it too.

I'd say that this comment is exactly disrespectful to Westmeath. Saying you should win by 4-5 points is effectively implying that even if you have an off game then you still expect to win. If Armagh have an off day then they may well find it very difficult to win. Only Dublin can make claims like this (maybe Kerry).

Westmeath had a nightmare against Dublin but it is exactly disrespectful to dismiss them because of that one result. Player for player there would not be much in it. There are no players likely to be heading for an All-star in either team. On the day if things click for Westmeath they could easily come out winners. Just like Down v Monaghan.

I wouldn't be putting money on Armagh and I wouldn't be putting money on Westmeath either. But I would put money on Dublin to beat Kildare

[Do you even know anything about his record or just repeat anything he says about himself?]

So Mayweather wins over 24 lbs. Pacquio wins over 42 lbs. Doesn't make McGregor winning over 10 lbs so amazing after all.

TAYLOR how do you make out " CMG is one of the best the UFC have seen. "

He has only ever had 10 UFC fights, lost one, and only ever beat two previous title holders. The second of whom had only held the title for one fight. Do you even know anything about his record or just repeat anything he says about himself?

Ah, you got me.
I know absolutely nothing about his record and just repeat anything he says about himself 

Boxing is a joke currently. Too many belts, too many weights and not enough fights between the top boxers

It certainly seems that way

..........so all decisions on championship formats forthwith will be determined with finances in mind rather than competitiveness......

Enthusiasts on these forums try to solve sporting issues. The Sporting administrators are trying to solve financial issues.

Sad but all too true