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[Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.]

Child abuse can take many forms, I am in no way stating that the child is in any sexual danger any more so that with heterosexual parents.  Society is cruel especially kids cruel to one another, will the child be brought up with certain views because his mummy and daddy are men, off course they will.  Will the child's parenting be accepted on a social level among his peers of course it will, they will neither be bullied or abused about because everyone in society now knows it's the norm to be gay.  Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.  And as for the evidence crew, we all grew up and know what kids are like unless you lead a very sheltered life, where's the decades of research to show that two men adopting a child does them any good.  In fairness to Elton John his children will never be in proper society , their proper society is probably everyone has for or five daddy's!

So leave them in the orphanage?

As opposed to having them adopted by gays, then yes.

But the argument against the Gay parents was "you are leaving a child open to years of torment", presumably from ignorant children that are somehow innately homophobic. Leaving the child parentless in an orphanage, when a loving couple is available & willing to adopt, to my mind is far greater abuse.

There is no mother - loving couple my hole what maternal instincts and emotional help will two gay men be to a child, oh that's right they probably are women born into men's bodies, Jesus wept!

If anything happened my missus (God forbid) then I would like to think I, as a man, would be able to still provide a loving, supportive role for my child with plenty of emotional help. Don't think I would hand him in to the authorities and say that I, as a man, don't have the maternal instincts to look after this child so he's better off in an orphanage. Plenty of single men have bought up kids - I don't get your logic that two men are incapable.

In your highly educated opinion, can a single man bring up a kid?

Totally, that answer you ok?

2. I WOILD be fine if my son turns out to be gay and I'm bringing him in a manner where he will be comfortable telling me and comfortable with that realization.

I bet you would, and what if your father told you he was gay?

[don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever.]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

Get a grip sometime discrimination is warranted and necessary. This homophobic card is pathetic, if two grown men want one another let them at it, I couldn't care less as a society we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

Out of interest, why do you regularly use language such as this when you are talking about homosexuality?

Because it shows it is unnatural, any other questions kid.

[Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.]

Child abuse can take many forms, I am in no way stating that the child is in any sexual danger any more so that with heterosexual parents.  Society is cruel especially kids cruel to one another, will the child be brought up with certain views because his mummy and daddy are men, off course they will.  Will the child's parenting be accepted on a social level among his peers of course it will, they will neither be bullied or abused about because everyone in society now knows it's the norm to be gay.  Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.  And as for the evidence crew, we all grew up and know what kids are like unless you lead a very sheltered life, where's the decades of research to show that two men adopting a child does them any good.  In fairness to Elton John his children will never be in proper society , their proper society is probably everyone has for or five daddy's!

So leave them in the orphanage?

As opposed to having them adopted by gays, then yes.

But the argument against the Gay parents was "you are leaving a child open to years of torment", presumably from ignorant children that are somehow innately homophobic. Leaving the child parentless in an orphanage, when a loving couple is available & willing to adopt, to my mind is far greater abuse.

There is no mother - loving couple my hole what maternal instincts and emotional help will two gay men be to a child, oh that's right they probably are women born into men's bodies, Jesus wept!

[It's up to parents to teach their kids right from wrong.]

Child abuse can take many forms, I am in no way stating that the child is in any sexual danger any more so that with heterosexual parents.  Society is cruel especially kids cruel to one another, will the child be brought up with certain views because his mummy and daddy are men, off course they will.  Will the child's parenting be accepted on a social level among his peers of course it will, they will neither be bullied or abused about because everyone in society now knows it's the norm to be gay.  Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.  And as for the evidence crew, we all grew up and know what kids are like unless you lead a very sheltered life, where's the decades of research to show that two men adopting a child does them any good.  In fairness to Elton John his children will never be in proper society , their proper society is probably everyone has for or five daddy's!

By that standard, we shouldn't have interracial marriage because kids might be bullied. Or people shouldn't move countries so their kids won't have a different accent or skin colour. Or catholic kids shouldn't be mixed with protestant. Kids will always find differences,.real or otherwise, to exploit. It's up to parents to teach their kids right from wrong.

Where's the research showing the harm suffered by children of same sex parents?

I love the internet warriors, if your son / father / brother told you he was gay on this board you would say you are totally fine with it, if a man approached you in a bar and tried to cop off with you on this board you would say you are fine with that - the reality for all these warriors I suspect would be very different.  Where is you research to say gay people adopting kids has been a roaring success with the child suffering no emotional or physical harm?

A parent is a child's role model if mummy and daddy are men what does that teach them!

[Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.]

Child abuse can take many forms, I am in no way stating that the child is in any sexual danger any more so that with heterosexual parents.  Society is cruel especially kids cruel to one another, will the child be brought up with certain views because his mummy and daddy are men, off course they will.  Will the child's parenting be accepted on a social level among his peers of course it will, they will neither be bullied or abused about because everyone in society now knows it's the norm to be gay.  Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.  And as for the evidence crew, we all grew up and know what kids are like unless you lead a very sheltered life, where's the decades of research to show that two men adopting a child does them any good.  In fairness to Elton John his children will never be in proper society , their proper society is probably everyone has for or five daddy's!

So leave them in the orphanage?

So hand them out to anyone who wants them?

Child abuse can take many forms, I am in no way stating that the child is in any sexual danger any more so that with heterosexual parents.  Society is cruel especially kids cruel to one another, will the child be brought up with certain views because his mummy and daddy are men, off course they will.  Will the child's parenting be accepted on a social level among his peers of course it will, they will neither be bullied or abused about because everyone in society now knows it's the norm to be gay.  Some of you boys would need to cop on a PC world is OK but when you are leaving a child open to years of torment and victimization because some government official thought Billy and Peter would be great dads you would need to get a grip.  And as for the evidence crew, we all grew up and know what kids are like unless you lead a very sheltered life, where's the decades of research to show that two men adopting a child does them any good.  In fairness to Elton John his children will never be in proper society , their proper society is probably everyone has for or five daddy's!

[don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever.]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

Get a grip sometime discrimination is warranted and necessary. This homophobic card is pathetic, if two grown men want one another let them at it, I couldn't care less as a society we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

We got a meter in with NI Power, best thing you will ever get, shows you what is eating the electricity up and really makes you think of using energy.  I have to say I would recommend it to everyone raging I never did it before.  We use to be with NI Power and then switched to airitricity, even sending regular meter readings in they estimated you for months in advance, so our bills would be 187 for 3 months then 45 for 3 months, it was all over the shop, with a meter you pay for what you use in any given month just like the oil no more estimation, I really like it and it is free to get installed.  From what I gather lots of people are moving to them.

Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

Not natural? What does this mean? Do you mean animals don't do it?

It's a live style choice, when bitches are in heat a dog will ride anything, procreation and all that!

Is your (presumed) heterosexuality a lifestyle choice?

No is yours?  It is a genetic trait programmed into all animal's so they procreate and survive as a species.

So why do you think homosexuality is a lifestyle choice?

I do because it is not natural.

So you think people who are gay are REALLY heterosexuals who go against every natural instinct and choose to be attracted to the same sex? How does that work?

You are wasting your time debating with him.  His every utterance on this thread has been crass and homophobic.  Personally I hope he has no offspring who "choose" to be gay.

The homophobic card, is there a card more played in society at present! 

I am with BT infinity - awesome service no complaints, my home has two laptops - work and personal, 3 kindles, two ipods along with iplayer etc all run with no issues, plus you get BT Sport free if you are into the soccer!

Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

Not natural? What does this mean? Do you mean animals don't do it?

It's a live style choice, when bitches are in heat a dog will ride anything, procreation and all that!

Is your (presumed) heterosexuality a lifestyle choice?

No is yours?  It is a genetic trait programmed into all animal's so they procreate and survive as a species.

So why do you think homosexuality is a lifestyle choice?

I do because it is not natural.

Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

Not natural? What does this mean? Do you mean animals don't do it?

It's a live style choice, when bitches are in heat a dog will ride anything, procreation and all that!

Huh? Dogs make lifestyle choices? It's natural but it's not natural?

No dogs acting on natural instincts when a bitch is in heat will try to ride anything - surely you are an educated person and don't need this spelled out.

[* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.]

I think the point of gay pride and the 'coming out' business is for it to become so commonplace that in future we'll return* to a time when it'll be considered no big deal what your sexual preferences are. Nobody will have to 'come out' because they won't feel any pressure to be 'in' in the first place.  Gay pride parades are an act of defiance in cultures where homosexual or bisexual behaviour is or was suppressed, and I think the intention of them is to let gay people know that there's no need to stay in the closet.  It's like the atheist billboards doing the rounds in America at the minute reassuring atheists in religiously-dominated areas that it's okay to be an atheist and that they're not alone.

* Yes, return to a time when it's no big deal. The idea that there's something wrong with homosexual behaviour is a relatively recent invention. In ancient Rome and ancient Greece nobody gave a toss.

Bad choice off words.     Common place or not a man wanting another man is not a natural thing.

What about a womans ass or is that out of bounds as well?

Or any other orifice. What is natural anyway ?

Men being with women, and don't even start me on the child abuse that is two gay men going for adoption, that thing should never be allowed.

I'd say you can argue living repressed intolerant households would be closer to child abuse over having 2 caring dads.

I'd say you are correct about repressed intolerant households, but two caring dads surely push the child down a certain path and as nature intended the mother to give birth and raise the young what maternal instincts have two gays in raising and supporting a young child.  It's wrong, it's unnatural and the PC world has gone mad to allow it.  Elton John is about 70 and him and his gay partner have basically bought kids - it's sickening.

Is it better for a kid to be left in a childrens home somewhere with no one to care for them?

So do you want to just hand them out to clear the care homes out?

Men being with women, and don't even start me on the child abuse that is two gay men going for adoption, that thing should never be allowed.

I will start you. How is it "child abuse" for gay people to have families?

Gay men to adopt children, if a gay women has a child the child is with their mother.  No one can deny the mother is the most important part of the family, a child needs that bond, how can such a bond be prevalent with two men?