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It seems clear that the players want to wrest control of the running of the county team away from the county board and basically put themselves in charge for the forseeable future. Pick their own managers, selectors, etc. If successful you could see a case in a couple of years when some of the older players have retired of them playing pass the parcel with the management of the senior hurling team. Treating it as their own personal fiefdom much like Frank Murphy has with Cork GAA. Maybe they have more in common with Frank than they'd like to admit.

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Good man Silgeach keep reading that dictionary of yours if it gives you comfort,

And still not one of the pro-players can make a half decent response to this bare faced lie by Donal Og.

but this is a multi layered long running dispute and the CCB have clearly abused their power.

If it was a single layered dispute involving a dog and a couple of chickens it would make absolutely no difference to the meaning of the word Veto.

Donal Og has made it important enough of an issue to deny it is a veto, I am showing that it absolutely clearly is a veto. So unless you have something at least half intelligible to say on the subject stop posting rubbish about those who have.

The players want a veto on McCarthy, FACT.
Do they always want this power ? Do they always want a veto on the incoming manager ? That is the important question that Donal Og does NOT want asked.

In any genuine process, the people involved take into consideration the others view, and any reasonable person wouldn't impose upon the players the one man they said they couldn't work with.

In any process, genuine or not, the people involved can take into consideration the others view or they can not and it still makes no difference to the meaning of what the players are asking for which is a veto against Gerald McCarthy.

so how any GAA man can support them is beyond me.

For many reason. Lets name two.

- The players went for blackmail first and foremost. They didn't even attempt to use the democratic process of the clubs.
- The players are not trying to use the democratic process AFTER the vote was called by the County Board. Now I have no problem with them doing this but I can't help but wonder if they waited until after the first vote on purpose.

And lastly. I firmly believe in the democratic process of the GAA, I also firmly believe that players should not be allowed to have any input into their own management besides having opinions. The managers word is law.

Do you really see things that black and white. Clearly you're very young because when you're older you'll understand that maybe things just aren't that simple. Not just black and white, maybe then you'll understand the Veto issue..well hopefully anyway.

Reillers.

I am talking about a word in the English language which has a very simple meaning. That meaning does not change depending on who is using it or what the circumstances are. They have absolutely no bearing on the meaning of the word.

These are facts which I would hope everyone can agree on.

1. The players had input into the selection committee.
2. The players asked the selection committee not to choose Gerald.

Regardless of the rights, the wrongs, the "who said whats' and the current alignment of the planets. It makes absolutely no difference in the world that the word to describe what the players want is a veto.

Words meanings do not change because of circumstances.

They asked the committee NOT to choose Gerald, they said they refuse to play under Ger. That is a veto on Gerald McCarthy.

Denying this fact makes them look stupid or do they think the rest of the country are so thick they swallow Donal Og's tripe without question ?  

They don't (for the millionth time) want to call the shots.

They want to veto the manager as players and thats a million times more power then they should have. If they wanted to veto the manager through a democratic vote in the county then thats a completely different story. i.e > What they are finally doing after 5 months of blackmail.

They didn't want to do what they did, once never mind 3 times, they never wanted to be on the selection commitee either but it was part of the agreement of arbitrion.

- They went on strike and acted like spoilt children. FACT
- Now, 5 months later when they realised the county board weren't going to budge they FINALLY decided to go about things the proper democratic way. FACT

I have no problem with them gathering support from the clubs to vote Ger and FM and anyone else out. I have a huge problem with their strike and their behaviour before that.

The GAA is democratic, you change things democratically and if you don't believe its democratic then why are the players now trying to gather support through the proper channels ?

These players would do anything for ya, they will work for you and no one will try harder.

Will Donal Og f**k off and leave the hurling to real men with an ounce of decency, honesty and honour ? Because thats all I want him to do. People like Donal Og and Dessie represent a disease that is going to destroy the association as we know it.

No one wants to improve, they, especially Donal Og are the ultimate inch fighters according to Corcoran and will do anything to improve.

My apologies, if Brian Corcoran said it then it must be true  

They'd love nothing more then to not have to worry about anything but hurling instead of fighting these stupid battles that are all about FM's petty little games.

Then why is your precious Mr Cusack involved with an organisation who have the ultimate goal of making the GAA professional ?

Ask anyone, any manager, even Cody, who had the most professional set up for the last few years and they'll tell you without hesitation that Cork did..till Gerald came.

They had ONE of the most professional set-ups.

I'm not questioning the players (except for Donal Og's) committment to Cork hurling or their committment to win for Cork and train and play for Cork. I'm trying to make the point that striking when you don't get your own way is NOT acceptable.

IF they were selfish primma donnas they wouldn't put themselves through all of this, months of this, they would have pulled out long ago, would they not have done?

No they wouldn't, this is exactly what they would do as selfish primadonnas.

It's not player power, it's power to the players

Yes, thats exactly what they want.

to the clubs,

If its power to the clubs then the players would not have asked for membership of the selection committee.

They couldn't have done this 5 months ago, the clubs wouldn't have moved an inch and clearly you don't understand why.

Because the players had to scare the clubs into supporting them out of fear of getting relegated to div 2 and spending the next few years building a team. I'm quite well aware of why they wouldn't have moved 5 months ago which makes the players actions even worse.

And if the players manage to pull this one off then they should be given a parade because Cork GAA will be forever gratefull for that.

Should be banned from the organisation for life in my opinion but whatever you think yourself.

Kikenny players have a lot more respect..bullshit, I'm sorry now but you don't know what anyone else would do in this situation.

If the KK players went on strike they would be told to f-off and never set foot inside the dressing room again.

Of course it matters, problems and issues can't be summed up by dictionary definitions,

They don't need to be. Saying its a veto doesn't make those matters or problems any different, its just not referring to them.

Donal Og and company are afraid to use the word veto because of what it means, powerwise.

if there were four candidates nominated the only one the players wouldn't have played for IMO is Gerald.

Well gosh jolly darnit, I have this wee book here and theres a word in this book just for the very situation, isn't that a coincidence ?

Thats a veto.

[WAY]

Sligeach, the players don't have or want a veto, they simply don't want and can't work with a manager they've had for two seasons already.

Regardless of the CCB selecting Ger McCarthy, John Allen or Paudi O'Se to manage, when the players say they won't play for this manager, that is a veto.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, the circumstances have absolutely no bearing on the definition of the word 'veto'.

Not one of the pro-players have answered this. The word 'veto' has a meaning, it has a definition and what the players are doing fits into that definition perfectly.

It doesn't matter what circumstances are involved, a veto is a veto plain and simple. The house of Lords in the UK used to be able to 'veto' laws passed by the house of commons, it made absolutely no difference what those laws were or who pushed them through. Simply stopping them is a veto.

Reardless of arguing the right or wrong of this situation, this is a fact. The players want a veto, thats what they are fighting for and they have consistently lied about that.

Simply saying they won't have X as a manager is a veto. The circumstances have absolutely no bearing on it whatsoever.

Nearly 300 pages and the pro-players are still arguing this complete rubbish. A veto is a veto, its not a particularly difficult word to understand and its meaning is very simple.

Nobody has been able to justify Geralds reappointment

Where is there a rule that says anyone needs to justify his appointment ?

so clearly the 5 CB men only reappointed him to antagonize the players, the players saw this and rightly walked away.

Yes, like the undemocratic pre-madonna's they are. They walked away, cried like spoilt children and only now, 5 months later, after trying to blackmail the county board, they are now finally only getting around to doing things the proper, democratic way.

Is it so difficult to understand ?

I don't disagree with the players trying to get rid of Gerald, I in fact would agree that it is time for a change. What disgusts me is the WAY they have been acting and trying to do it and what is going to be the fallout of this affair.

If you really want to see Cork hurling go into a slump like never before then let these players have power and see what happens.

[EVERYONE ELSE]

Show me the post that I didn't asnwer and I'll answer it.

Why ? You didn't answer this one either.

I state what the players want, what they have said from the beginning they wanted, it is the definition of a veto, Donal Og says they don't want a veto and that makes it true ?

Just because he says its not a veto does not mean its true. I have asked you to tell me how in Gods name its not a veto when its obvious to anyone with knowledge of the English language it is the exact definition of a veto.

You've been on here for ages now and the topic has gone on for ages, and you still think it's about wanting to call the shots and pick the manager.

Thats your answer ? Thats a response ?

I still think its about wanting to call the shots because the ONLY evidence presented against that is Donal Og's word. He says they told the CCB they won't play under Ger, then say they don't want to call the shots.

Spoilt primma donnas, do actually realise what's going on. Do you ignore everything that goes on on purpose or just to be incredibly annoying.

아마도

The Cork hurlers, if they were spoilt primma donnas..I don't see anyone having a fit that he called them primma donnas..they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Its exactly what they would be doing.

They are trying to overturn the Cork GAA,

Player power

they are trying to organise the Cork clubs and it's extraordinary that it's taken the players do to it. It should never have been down to them to do it.

Oh right yeah, you mean they are doing what EVERYONE ELSE knew was the right way to go about changing things now after 5 months of acting like spoilt children ?

The situation would never happen in KK. They all work together, their cb doesn't go out of it's way to get rid of it's best players.

And the Kilkenny players have a lot more respect for themselves and their county then the Cork ones.

And there you go ignore, concentrating on me and not the points. Running out of material are we?
How about you answer the posts before you turn into OM.

Funny, you never found the need to answer mine, why should he answer you ?

You want a summary ?

1. The players are asking for powers of Veto.

Donal Og has consistently bare faced lied to the media on this point. Unless Donal Og is after releasing his own version of the Oxford dictionary then yes, this is the exact definition of what a veto is. i.e > The players wanted to veto McCarthy.

You see when someone lets say X (Players) say they don't want something Y (McCarthy as manager) and they believe they should have that power theres actually a word for that. Some people a long tiome ago put the letters v, e, t and o togeather and made a nice shiny new word.

So far reillers your 'proof' of this not been a veto is to say "Thats not what they want", thats funny because thats EXACTLY what they are asking for and if they got their veto 5 months ago we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

2. Player power.

No manager in their right mind would go near the Cork job except for managers who don't particularly want to manage anyways, they just want to "discuss" managing with Donal Og and the boys and sit back.

New Cork manager -> "Is it alright if I substitute you Donal ? .... no ? Ok sher maybe next time"

Cork needs to get its house in order and stop putting up with a corrupt county board on one hand and spoilt pre-madonna's on the other.

If this situation happened in Kilkenny this is what would happen.

1. Players say they won't play under Brian Cody, demand player power in the selection process.
2. Brian waves as the players leave, never to be let near a Kilkenny jersey again.

oh yeah and ..

3. Kilkenny win 5 in a row with the new players.

Wiithout getting into the dictionary definition of a veto i can't see how the players having an input can be viewed with such distain?

Well personally I DON'T think players should have official representatives on the selection committee but I'd be willing to accept it. I believe players do have valuable opinions on managing, but they also have terrible opinions on it simply because they are going to be under that management. 

But 'input' is not what they want. They see 'input' as forcing a decision one way or another. Thats not input, thats blackmail.

And again, I have no problem with the players protesting this issue, through the proper channels.

They could have played on and made their feelings known to the clubs, given their take on Geralds managing and NOT threatened Cork GAA with blackmail like spoilt children.

The Clubs could have had a vote of no confidence without the players blackmailing everyone.

He scored a point anyway. Anyone at it to report on how he did?

Scores a point against Munster, its pretty obvious he played well

Sligeach, how many more times and ways do different people have to say.
This was never about picking the manager.

County Board pick manager X, players say "No" = Veto.

Picking the manager is exactly what the players are asking for. It doesn't matter if they want to pick manager x or they simply DON'T want manager y. Its the exact same thing. They are choosing, they are picking and they shouldn't be and until you and others open your eyes and see that FACT then your never going to come close to convincing others that this is the right decision.

The players ARE trying to choose the manager, that is a fact.

If tomorrow my boss tells me I have a new department head, Mr. X and I say "No, anyone but him or I'm on strike", I am CHOOSING my department head.

This is the dictionary definition of a veto, I mean how twisted does your opinion and mind have to be to not see that ? And I'm not talking about you reillers, I'm talking about everyone.

This is not a play on words, it IS a veto.

It was never about the players wanting to do their own thing.

Thats EXACTLY what they are doing. They want their thing done regarding the management.

If you read what I just posted or if you bothered actually looking into what's been said over the last few weeks you'd know that there's no democracy in Cork GAA.

Ah yes, the last great facist leader in Europe, Frank Murphy, whose superhuman skills involve holding the entire Cork GAA under his thumb. Some man Frank   

Why don't you actually read the facts instead of coming on here to bitch and whinge.

Dictionary -> Veto

Explain to me how what the players are doing is not a veto, by using the dictionary definition of said word, and I'll consider listening to you.

It's nothing to do with the manager as such, it was the way in which he was reappointed. They don't want to pick their own manager, they just want to play.

They are NOT playing for the very fact they WON'T play under the manager that they DON'T want.

That is a veto, that is picking the manager, that is manipulating the managerial process.

The players are nothing but professional and everyone but McCarthy and his current selectors have only had good things to say about the players. That's managers likes Donal O Grady, John Allen, not to mention the selectors and co who have been and gone.
There's a reason for that.

Count me alongside McCarthy and the selectors when it comes to Mr Cusack. As for the other lads, your right, they are professional and I would have very little to say that wasn't good about them as players and as men.

That doesn't mean they're right in this.

This isn't player power, this is just the players fighting back  because purely till now, no one has.

If its not for player power then what are they fighting back against ? what are they fighting for ?

They are fighting for the power to help choose their own manager.

So players standing up for their rights and for IC hurling is worse then the disgraceful corruption that has had a stranglehold on Cork GAA for years.

Ya says a lot about you if you think that. 

Says a lot for you when you suddenly think that the words of the English language can suddenly change their meaning if an overrated hurling goalkeeper says they do.

[this]

So the players are likely going to get the power to pick the manager, or sorry, lets phrase it differently, veto anyone they don't want.

Proud day for Cork hurling when this happens, democracy out the door and the voice of the mob is what matters.

Tell me reillers et al, whats going to happen when the next manager tries to drop Mr Cusack or Mr O'Sullivan ? or good old Sean Og ?

Will he be a shite manager then and have to be replaced ?

Sure who needs a county board at all, Donal Og and his mates can run Cork IC for years to come. Maybe the GPA can be Corks main sponsor now and the GPA executive can run the Cork inter-county scene.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Brian Cody wouldn't last 10 minutes managing Cork because his 'decisions' wouldn't be accepted by the poor old decent honest hardworking God's gift to Earth players.

"Drop playerX??", "Ah no Brian we took a vote, thats not a great idea but thanks for the input"
"Train this way ? ", "Ah sorry Brian, didn't you get the memo ? We do it this way"
"I'm not starting today ?", "Think again Mr Cody, we are Cork hurling, I'll start or sit on the bench when I decide to"

Honestly, everyone can see what the players mean and sympatheise but striking and the bullshit thats gone on and the outcome of player power is worse then any amount of CB corruption and people r so f-ing blind they can't see that.

Galway without the Canning's aren't Galway. They are a shadow of a team.

Galway without the Cannings are a shadow of a team ?

I am really trying not to be insulting but the only thing thats going through my mind after reading that is that your some kind of kid that never grew up.

And Dublin played a lot better against Galway then they did against Cork, the Cork game was shocking.

Theres a word for people who think like this.

Running Dublin close..Dublin..yipee. That sums up the dispute, running Dublin close is pathetic.
And moral victories, yay..that'll win us lots and lots of tropheys. We'll have morale victories all the way to relegation.

You really ARE a kid that never grew up.

How many years of winning no silverware would it take for you to abandon following hurling ? I'm willing to bet very few.

You'll have to explain what you're trying to say here?
my point is that playing record is irrelevent when it comes to coaching. not sure what club votes have got to do with that.

Nice nitpick. Howabout you look at Gers managerial record then ?

And you are comparing the Offaly and Cork situations when they are not the same thing.

In a better place than anyone i'd say. you think a county board officer who sees feck all training sessions and knows nothing about coaching himself is in a better place to judge? Not that they CCB were interested in McCarthy's coaching ability anyway. They knew the players didn't want him so that was good enough for them.

So you want the players to be able to pick the manager ?

Again i think you're confused. I never mentioned offaly in relation to this. you announced that briadly players should have no hand in the appointment of a manager. I'm saying, if the CCB agree with that then why have they got players on the selection committee?

Because the players threw their toys out of the pram last year to get that right. The CCB should have never caved in.

Totally irrelevent. Richie Connor was one of the greatest players to don an offaly jersey.

Sorry, how many votes did the clubs take in this situation ?

Apples and Oranges and you know it.

Not according to his own players, who are a fair bit better positioned to know than you,

Players are the best judge of management since when exactly ?

His own players lined out for him last weekend and did a good job against Tipperary in Semple.

Why have the county board got players on the selection committtee then?

Bit of miscommunication going on here is there ?

Your after quoting the Offaly situation and assumed I agreed with the decision, now your suggesting I agree with the county boards decision to have players on the selection committee.

I do not and if CCB has to answer for anything, its for allowing players on the selection committee at all. Its a stupid idea which was never going to work and should be abolished immediately.

Jaysus such an amount of rubbish here.

Reading comments about Ger McCarthy here by some people you'd think he never seen a hurl in his life hes that bad. 

Here are FACTS.

Ger McCarthy was one of the greatest players to ever don the Cork jersey.
Ger McCarthy is one of the best managers in the country, if he wasn't he wouldn't have gotten near the Waterford or Cork job. Is he the best ? No.

The people here slating him for been a "terrible" coach should be ashamed of themselves.

Another simple point is this. Regardless of how bad Ger is or how much the players don't want him to manage, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with them and it never should have anything to do with players.

That is plain and simple and as long as the players try and force their power into the decision making process they are finished. Nevermind CCB for a minute, the rest of the Country won't have players dictating to democratically elected officials in the GAA.

If the players somehow did win this and won the right to choose their manager (which is EXACTLY what they are looking for) then Cork should be banned from the organisation.