Messages

[I think you are completely wrong. And I say that as an Armagh fan.]

What irks me the most about the whole process is the role the media play in it.  If the ref. had an issue on the day, issue the red cards there and then and it is clear to everyone why it occurred.  However, when RTE and their pundits decide to show 5 mins of a handbags vs 30 secs of the actual game, then we have every Tom, Dick and Harry calling for suspensions ... that's what pisses me off.  Armagh are correct to challenge this all the way.

I think you are completely wrong. And I say that as an Armagh fan.

Fair enough, we all have opinions and are entitled to them.

Well some of this factual. Was it 5 mins or less? Was it only handbags or was there more in that footage? Have the media had a role in this or not? These are all facts and some of them are provable. Everyone is entiltled to hold an opinion but some opinions are wrong

The game was over. Ref and his team stood back and tried to observe the incident. No need to issue cards. Not saying that he couldn't issue card just that there was no need to. Between the officials and the camera some issues were picked up. Others were not

So let's have full transparency then and remove the ambiguity from the situation.  Let's have it explained as to the merits of what those who have been cited did vs those who were not cited.

We cant rule out that there has been transparency. Are you saying for certain that the players and management have not been told what they are accused of and what the evidence agsinst them is?

If is publication to the public that is the test of transaparency the I trust that our county board will make a public statement on the basis of their appeals - the Ciaran Mackin one will be good.

When did this 5 mins on RTE happen? As stated elsewhere it was not on the Sunday night programme.

I've the series of League Sunday recorded, they focused a lot more on the afters than on the game itself, I'll time it later if I get the chance

Have a look then

The incident is mainly handbags and those only involved in handbags are not being sanctioned. But the incident was not exclusively handbags. The incident being generally handbags cannot be a defence to those who take it a step beyond handbags.

Again, let's have the transparency then.

See above.

Has the thing that is pissing you off actually happened?

I feel that it has ... the fact that RTE, both TV and Podcast, show a bias to some situations vs others depending on who is playing pisses me off.

You "feel" that it has. What facts are these feelings based on?
How would you react if the GAA response to your call fro transparency was to state that the the disciplinary authorities just "felt" that the punishments were warranted?

Do the grounds for appeal that you have outlined actually exist as grounds of appeal and do they reflect things that have actually happened and been captured by either the camera or the officials?

I was at the game, I've watched the available footage although limited .. I'm looking at the situation in the context of what I observed being there.  Yes, I do think some of the appeals have a chance of success.

The GAA disciplinary authorities are working on what was visible by the officials and the camera. That won't be everything that occurred. What else can they do?   Should we be appealing Mackin's suspension? I say Mackin as we all know he is guilty. I am not saying a team should never appeal but there has to be proper grounds for an appeal.

As fans I think we are embarrassing ourselves and our county.

Wise up, this is a GAA Discussion Board, not The Hague 

The Hague?? Where does that come from? We have all read some frankly embarrassing stuff that never elevates itself above a childish strop. This is the fans I am talking about. Apart from appealing the Mackin decision i am not criticising the County Board (though that could change if details emerge).   

not every fling of the arm is a strike or attempt to strike. For example it wasn't a red card when done by Murphy during the match. It's certainly not as clear cut as you would make it out.

David
Do you think Murphy wasn't sent off because the officials decided that some punches are not red card punches or because they didn't see the incident?

What irks me the most about the whole process is the role the media play in it.  If the ref. had an issue on the day, issue the red cards there and then and it is clear to everyone why it occurred.  However, when RTE and their pundits decide to show 5 mins of a handbags vs 30 secs of the actual game, then we have every Tom, Dick and Harry calling for suspensions ... that's what pisses me off.  Armagh are correct to challenge this all the way.

I think you are completely wrong. And I say that as an Armagh fan.

The game was over. Ref and his team stood back and tried to observe the incident. No need to issue cards. Not saying that he couldn't issue card just that there was no need to. Between the officials and the camera some issues were picked up. Others were not.

When did this 5 mins on RTE happen? As stated elsewhere it was not on the Sunday night programme.

The incident is mainly handbags and those only involved in handbags are not being sanctioned. But the incident was not exclusively handbags. The incident being generally handbags cannot be a defence to those who take it a step beyond handbags.

Has the thing that is pissing you off actually happened?
Do the grounds for appeal that you have outlined actually exist as grounds of appeal and do they reflect things that have actually happened and been captured by either the camera or the officials?

As fans I think we are embarrassing ourselves and our county.

I presume there will be the customary appeal. This one might actually work. The video is not definitive. I think he is guilty of striking and the video certainly doesn't prove him innocent. But whereas I think he is likely to be guilty is the test not "certainty"? Is so you would find it hard to prove that there isn't at least room for doubt.

But I am not holding out for it and I'm not dragging any anti-armagh or anti-northerner bias into the equation. It's a tight one

The ref didn't have Murphy in his report or he would have been banned, so he will have gotten away with one.

Did the Ref have Rian in his report?

Seemingly not. Just the video.

Any player who isn't captured by that one camera angle gets away with whatever they did.

We just have to deal with it

Was it not completely stupid of Armagh to appeal the decision in the first place as it was likely that video evidence would be used?

2 separate processes. The video was looked at after Armagh submitted their appeals but not because of their appeals.

The idea that disciplinary authorities could sit on evidence but only actual act on it if an entirely different player appeals is crazy. I am assuming that isn't true. If it is true it's shameful.

I don't want spurious appeals. If Armagh are appealing all 3 then I have to admit that one of them is spurious and wrong.

Nor should we prevent genuine appeals. I have no idea what 2 of the armagh players did and if they believe themselves to be innocent they are entitled to test the evidence against them.

[scorer-in-chief]

I'm very confused by the suspensions. If the referee felt that the five players who have been issued with suspensions contributed to a melee why did he not red card them at the time?  I'd also like to know when he wrote his report and whether he spoke to anyone other than a match official or heard any coverage of the match before writing his report. To me it makes little sense. I wonder too will the CCCC get involved for anyone missed by the officials.

I understand the point your making in terms of the independence of the referee's report but all the match officials are volunteers, are always open to ear-twisting and have to be trusted to do their jobs as honestly as possible.  My issue is that Donegal were the clear instigators which some of the officials clearly saw and yet Armagh will lose their vice-captain, scorer-in-chief and main mid-fielder whilst Donegal lose 2 mischief makers.

Who is the scorer in chief you lost?

So if Nugent is score in chief is Campbell the vice captain?

No. Try again

A lot will depend on whether Donegal can get a pair of shorts to fit McBrearty

So 3 for Armagh and 2 for Donegal.........don't know how they picked Soupy out of all that was happening in real time, and why only 2 for Donegal......??.  But, we were involved and need to take the punishment and move on, although it is hard to comprehend how out of all that happened, Michael Murphy did not get banned given he started it just at then end of normal time where the Linesman was right beside him!  Time now for Armagh to focus on the game and hopefully this will drive them on!

Yeah Soupy seems unfortunate and its a bit bizarre that only two from Donegal. Probably little chance of being successful with any appeal as HQ are looking to clamp down on melees this year.

I think you have to separate the footage you have seen from the totality of what happened. The officials stood back watched which they seem to be under instruction to do and I think it's a wise strategy.

Just because we can't identify guilt on the footage doesn't mean something didn't happen that the officials saw. Likewise those who started the whole thing off are unlikely to have been caught be officials and will likely escape punishment

tyrone have suffered trial by media many times before.

Ok list the instances then. Note media coverage of guilt is not trial of media. Presumably you will reply with a list of innocent players who were portrayed as guilty in the media and then punished? Let's hear it.

Armagh should have learnt that they got off very lightly at that game

Name the guilty players then?

I am an armagh supporter and firmly believe that guilty players should be punished irrespective of where they are from. I am deeply suspicious that some want players punished because of where they are from

OK let's do this. First of all trial by media doesn't mean someone is innocent. It means the media have blown it out of proportion before the pushment has been given.

Saying as you are so interested but too lazy to find the Armagh players at fault I have done it for you

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1508193364159733767?t=po_dYBWAiqBrjpYoUbgUjA&s=19

21 seconds in. Armagh number 15 punched dongel number 10 in side on head.

32 seconds armagh number 25 grabbed Donegal number 10 from behind and pulled him to the ground. Then an armagh sub in black top comes in and takes a swing when the Donegal player gets up.

40 seconds in Armagh number 17 drags a Donegal player down from behind by the neck.

Is that enough? Also any punch to the head is significantly more dangerous than a headlock. Count lads have died from one punch to the head.

Laughable stuff.

You claim Tyrone have been the victim of trial by media many times. Asked to name some of those times and you come up with exactly nil. Is it possible that your argument didn't stand up to even your own scrutiny?

Secondly you claimed that armagh got off lightly in the Armagh Vs Tyrone match and when asked for examples you produce footage from a completely different game. And don't pretend you thought it was the Donegal game I was referring to as
A) it was your statement about the Tyrone game I was quoting and
B) Armagh can hardly got off lightly when the punishments from the Donegal haven't even been handed out yet.

Again it looks like you have no faith in your own argument

tyrone have suffered trial by media many times before.

Ok list the instances then. Note media coverage of guilt is not trial of media. Presumably you will reply with a list of innocent players who were portrayed as guilty in the media and then punished? Let's hear it.

Armagh should have learnt that they got off very lightly at that game

Name the guilty players then?

I am an armagh supporter and firmly believe that guilty players should be punished irrespective of where they are from. I am deeply suspicious that some want players punished because of where they are from

There wil be a few armagh and Donegal players sweating alright. You didn't have to slow it down to see a few digs and headlocks. Bad enough getting suspended for a league game but for the championship it's completely stupid. However I have a feeling there won't be any suspensions handed out.

Which players are you talking about?

A nothing game and an action packed weekend. I think they can be forgiven for not dwelling on the game.

The reference to players having a case to answer if you slow the footage down was just trotted out and then left hanging. If there is clear footage just bloody show it.

Lots of faux outrage, mostly from Tyrone supporters. It sounds like staving off relegation wasn't enough to satisfy them today. Most rational people thought the 4 suspensions doled out to Tyrone players was ridiculous at the time and none more so than the Tyrone fans. Now they appear to have had a conscience transplant when it comes to application of the rules just because Armagh were involved. Time to take off the red and white glasses and admit that it was much ado about nothing. Thankfully the game wasn't broadcast live on TV or the reaction would be even worse.

Think you're missing the point, Tyrone folk are merely highlighting the incident so as to see how it's dealt with and whether other counties are held to same standard and punished with as much enthusiasm as Tyrone are. Very similar incidents, with todays possibly a lot more violent. Obviously we know these things happen in games and are hard to get rid of. No one wants to see them and suspensions arising from them are a bit ridiculous. However it's the consistency of investigation that will be interesting.

The major difference between the incidents was that GAA upheld the red cards given to Tyrone and Armagh players by the referee but nothing else was done about the incident.

In this game I don't think any cards were given out at the end.  However, suspensions may come of it if they were able to single out players.

In my opinion it was nowhere near more violent.

The difference you point out is potentially important.

I wasn't at the match and haven't seen it. So I have no idea who is innocent and who is guilty. If there is guilt on any side I hope they are punished. If we are correctly punished I hope we take our medicine instead of any hopeless or Loganesque technical loophole appeal.

But these are all ifs. At this stage I have seen no guilt. Most others haven't either but it hasn't stopped assholes being assholes.

Am I correct in saying that the ref couldn't have issued cards as the game was over? In which case neither team can take any comfort from the fact that cards were not issued?

A new rule passed 4 weeks ago at Congress now  enables the ref to give cards before  the throw in , HT , and  after the game !

With effect from when?