Messages

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-father-and-son-terrorists-admit-to-murder-and-rape-of-israeli-women-on-oct-7

Lovely individuals-very "heroic"

In his own words

"He shamelessly described raping a crying woman at gunpoint and leaving her without knowing her fate. Abdallah's confession revealed a more harrowing truth: his father killed the woman after multiple rapes by the terrorists, including himself and his cousin"

I am not saying that there are elements of Israelis who don't want to continue this war and obliterate the Palestinians, we also have dissidents here who'd love to continue the fight, using whatever means.

That won't get us where we want to be, that's why after over 30 years of recent violence (NI is 100 years and counting) and needless murders that they got round the table and thrashed it out.

If you remember not everyone got round the table, most notably the DUP!

You've got to find a way, php thinks it can be won through a war. And I'm the deluded one!

 

If you are going to quote me do it, but quote what I said, not what you think I mean..  I never said it can be won through war.

I said taking on Israel with weapons 'might' work. a war against israel.and its proxies would not be won. the dynamic has changed already, it might not lead to a lasting and just peace but they have the right to armed resistence and the staus quo was not offering a just and lasting peace wither.

there was no incentive for Israel to bring about a just and lasting peace. the 2 state solution the the eu/us/UK talk about was never what Israel wants, now they admit it it was never an option.

I think the narrative that the Us/UK/Eu could be some sort of peacemakers is shattered, they are arming a genocide. they have no interest in a just an lasting peace,

thought-out history uprisings have led to changes for people. N Ireland is not comparable - you had Us/Uk/Irish govt all wanting peace, there was uprising throughout irish history too. they do not want peace for palestinans, they were and are happy for them to continue to be occupied and murdered daily like the last 75 years and excuse Israeli crimes.



do you deny the Palestinians their international rights?

90% of irsaelis at the point when over 14,000 palestinans had been murdered in Gaza felt Israel was using the right amount of force or not enough... these are not dissidents, they support genocide, for 75 years they have occupied Palestine, they are not a small dissident group, the displacement of palestinans is what zionism is.

Taking on Israel with weapons might work, nothing including peace has worked so far. Armed resistence is a right under an international law. I wouldn't denied Palestinians that right if they choose it.

the Palestinians want self determination. I think based on 67 border or close to it, Jerusalem as its capital, control of its land, sea and air borders and the right of return dealt with in someway would be agreeable to most Palestinians.

Given the UK/us/german/eu reaction to the genocide, in continuing to arm and support Israeli to carry out the genocide I have no clue what Palestinians can do, but they cannot accept the status quo, that is a slow death.

 zionists and their supporters do not see Palestinians as human, the openly called for a genocide and have said they won't be a 2 state solution.

Milltown this reminded of your arguments early a little bit

https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1793502017538949331?t=g_jx53To1wsQET9V3PlmnQ&s=19

None whatsoever has that anything to do with what I said. Again show me where I said that no international pressure will result in no help for the people surviving in Gaza?

You are the master of spin. Like I said you'd be a good spokesperson for the IDF

You read something then assume something and then come on and spew some crap!

I'll be clear again, no conflict will be resolved in Gaza without sitting round a table, I can't help you understand that. Not one death is worth it. If you want something closer to home look at the troubles, I'm 52 years old and we still are under British rule while our political parties on the national side sit side by side with the unionists.

Throwing rocks at tanks won't bring about change, this 75 years of loss suffered by the Palestinian people is horrendous, if the current genocide attempt continues there won't be a country/people to go back to.

So these countries that are standing up to Israel are going to put political pressure on them, they are doing exactly what I said needs done, dialogue. Thanks for highlighting that.

The Israeli ambassador said doing what Ireland did does nothing to help Palestinians which is 'a little bit' like your patronising me for waving flags and boycotting, "but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated".

what fantasy world do you live in where Israel sits round a table to end conflict in Gaza/palestine. What in 75 years of occupation, has indicated a willingness to do that, the Israelis outright saying there will be no two state solution, where the uk/us/germans etc. arm them while they commit a genocide and starve the palestines.. I cannot help you understand that!!!

was it the nakba, the osla accords, camp david, the increasing land grabs and settlements the 'mowing of the lawn' every few years, or the outcome of the peaceful great march that makes you think Israeli wants a lasting and just peace.

dialogue, the Israelis have recalled their ambassadors. they don't do dialogue. We have recognoised Palestine state something most of the world already does, its the close to the minimum we should do, and should have been done decades ago.

your solution is for Palestinians to act like good little prisoners some more and then Israel will start a dialogue at some point... deluded.

you keep asking me to show you where you said something, but suggesting what you are suggesting leaves the current reality for Palestinians which  is more occupation, more settlements, more apartheid, more death, more suffering.

Milltown this reminded of your arguments early a little bit

https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1793502017538949331?t=g_jx53To1wsQET9V3PlmnQ&s=19

There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of this gang rape/mass rape thing. Its also pretty much accepted that Israel shot up a large amount of their own people. If they gave a damn about hostages they would gave negotiated their release, instead they carpet bombed civilian areas. You need to think of Israel as Nazis to understand the evil you are dealing with here.

I have no doubt that Israel wilfully murder and starve Palestinians - it's clear from their actions.

Though hasn't the ICC also accepted that Hamas fighters used sexual violence? I'd imagine they must have seen evidence before stating such.

Well there is that one clip of the girl getting dragged out of the Jeep by the hair-can't imagine what horrors she suffered

Has that story been debunked recently? Is that the one with the girl with blood of her trousers?

Didn't the IDF recently release videos of this same girl who was kidnapped with her hands tied behind her back and they were bleeding?

they (zionists and supporters) also reposted it all over social media qith mis translation of what was said in the video.

https://x.com/Israel_katz/status/1793543828630340083?t=QPDIzHGxsDnWuHxr3djmBw&s=19

Here is an example of Zionists propaganda. bit of it about today.

Ireland, if your goal was to reward terrorism by declaring support for a Palestinian state, you've achieved it

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

Israel - the state of Israel as represented by their government

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

Yet more waffle as you try..and fail, to twist and turn your way back out of what you said. Heroic actions, on Oct 7th.

so I made the comment, know what I meant by the comments, explained in more detail at the time what I meant, have explained on at least one other occasion what I meant, explained again today what I meant but you think you know better... catch yourself on (think that was directed at whitey early but fitting here too.)

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

So that's a no? I didn't say I'm happy for them to die.. Phew, is that a normal tactic for you?

Throwing rocks at tanks won't stop children dying, mothers raped or fathers being locked up for 30 years. It won't stop the tensions in the West Bank and further afield. Escalation will have an affect on all of us

Now you can support resistance all you want from over 5,500KMs away but unless its resolved through talk then it will continue. If you have any sense you'll know that it's the only way to stop this.

Its barbaric from the Israeli troops and government plus the US among others that have supported this. If it is paused without meaningful negation then this will continue and the geocide will be complete, that will help no one.

your opinion that they shouldn't use all efforts including armed resistence to end the occupation means (without you saying it) that you are happy/accepting of the status quo ( as every other effort (not armed resistence) has not ended the occupation) and the occupation is murdering daily Palestinians.

every bit of my sense says you want to limit what Palestinians do to get self determination. I dont. My preference is peaceful but its 75 years and throughout history armed resistence has led to the end of occupations (I acknowledge it also involves sitting down at a table after)

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

and whitey ignores my questions again and then this rubbish.  the root cause is the occupation and Israel is responsible along with the world powers who support them continuing this occupation

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

If you can throw up in any of my posts where I said I'm happy for them to die, please?

And did I say they haven't sat at the table and tried to fix this? no again, more mistruths .. You'd be good at being an IDF spokesperson

you don't support their legal right to resistence. you are not happy for them to exhaust all means for freedom. they are dying daily under occupation and
nothing has changed in 75 years. as someone who doesn't support all efforts and wants palestinans to wait for israel to agree to a just and peaceful palestinan state you are happy to see them continuing to die under that occupation and not use all means of resistence.

you didn't say they didnt sit at the table previosuly but you seem to think it's a possibility without something changing internationally and armed resistence is a option available to Palestinians under international law and again you don't support that right.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

You described Hamas actions, that is, gunning down unarmed men, women and children on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. All the waffle above doesn't change that.

Now you're attempting to pigeonhole me as either a bad faith Zionist or someone who only supports Palestinians if they remain caged for calling you out on it. I'm neither.

Lots of bad faith in this debate and none of it coming from me that's for sure.

There were posters here also posting on Oct 7th who were clearly pro-Palestine and were questioning Hamas' actions. You chose the words 'heroic actions.'

yes bad faith, as I have explained to you what I meant (the person who wrote the comments) and if you read on you will see I clarified it at that time for others also.

I described the act of resistence by Palestinians as heroic, so if I want to think I support murdering children go right ahead it is in perfect keeping with your bad faith.

The actions of Hamas on that day. That is, a massacre of unarmed civilian men, women and children. You chose the word 'heroic' to describe it. You can't change that.

Yeah I took up your invitation to read on, you were called out by plenty of posters. What followed was basically an attempt to justify murder.

In my opinion, you're not that much different from the British  zionists I hear on radio shows trying to justify genocide. If it's your team doing the murdering, there's always an excuse.

Plenty of pro-Palestinians on this board were disgusted by Hamas actions and said so straight away.

this ends my engagement with you the reincarnation of previously banned poster... and all you efforts to view everything via the len of Oct 7th like a good little zionist and misrepresented my comments. despite being told numerous times.

I fully stand over them and what I meant by them and reject your incorrect interpretation. all my posts are visible and I have never called for the murder of non combatant be the man women or child.

Surely if I felt that way (that I was ok mirdering innocnet children) or meant that I would just come out and say it.

International law allows for resistence to occupation. Palestine is occupied. Palestinians heroic resist and resisted their occupation. As the west for 75 years let them rot under the boot of isrsel. that is a heroic action. to be clear I don't support any war crimes or individual actions that led to the deaths of non combatants again to be clear, be they men women or children. 

The whole thing doesn't make any sense

Netanyahu was about to get booted out of office and a less hardline Israeli PM was the likely successor

World opinion in general was very sympathetic toward the Palestinians

Relations were being normalized between Israeli and other Muslim countries

Now all of that "progress" has gone up in flames

I asked this yesterday and I'll ask it again- What exactly we're Hamas hoping to accomplish by their actions on 10/07?

Not alone has their country been destroyed and tens of thousands of their civilians killed, but they may very well get Trump elected ....you know Trump, the guy who tried to ban Muslims from entering the US

so you didn't answer my question.

What question

are Israel animals and should they be wiped from the face of the planet whitey?