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The biggest issue facing us now is the level of expectation in the county and how we manage the occasion on Sunday. The last 2 matches we weren't widely tipped to come through but listening to pundits this week most of them seem to be predicting us to win. The fans can get carried away all they want, that doesn't bother me one bit but hopefully the players are able to deal with this and insulate themselves a little, since the sense of excitement has gone up a few levels for this match. It feels like its Armaghs biggest game since 2005 in terms of supporter anticipation anyway.

If they can manage all of that I'd be confident that we can get the job done in a close run game but wary that Galway are capable of producing absolutely anything as well.

There is a band of Armagh fans who think that promotion to Division 1 was a bad idea and would set the team back. And there is a band who think that excitement and expectation are the same thing.

This is the business end of the season. With the game comes pressure. Handling the pressure is part of the game. Good players are ones who have the full package of skill, fitness, commitment, game intelligence and temperament in all its many forms. If we are good or want to be good we need to show we can handle the big occasions. I think we are good and that there are bigger occasions (this year or the near future) than an AI q/f. Mental preparation is key. But thats what management is there for.

Quietly confident. Only quietly mind you.

Version A

seems all the people talking about the conspiracy theory about holding back best tickets are right.

loads of good hogan and cusack stand tickets available now

I said previously what happens is so many go on ticketmaster and then county boards/season ticket holders etc are held back. If there are returns from these they are then sold online closer to the game. It's complete nonsense to say that they hold back the good seats so people will buy bad ones.

Version B

seems all the people talking about the conspiracy theory about holding back best tickets are right.

loads of good hogan and cusack stand tickets available now

One of these versions is true and one version is reactionary b#llocks.
Discussion boards in a nutshell

i just stated facts . there are better tickets available now than there were 2 weeks ago and that  certain people had expressed views why this may be
Personally i would say its the little Caesars who will lose power if tickets good 100% online  that want this situation.

With all due respect you stated that tickets were held back and that conspiracy theorists were correct.

Those are not facts. They are in fact b#llocks and reactionary b#locks at that.

Tickets that have been returned have been made available for sale. If you think that is not a good thing then set out your reasons why

Version A

seems all the people talking about the conspiracy theory about holding back best tickets are right.

loads of good hogan and cusack stand tickets available now

I said previously what happens is so many go on ticketmaster and then county boards/season ticket holders etc are held back. If there are returns from these they are then sold online closer to the game. It's complete nonsense to say that they hold back the good seats so people will buy bad ones.

Version B

seems all the people talking about the conspiracy theory about holding back best tickets are right.

loads of good hogan and cusack stand tickets available now

One of these versions is true and one version is reactionary b#llocks.
Discussion boards in a nutshell

I think McStay is right. I think you would get a lot more but in to 3 and a lot more edge to these season with teams trying to get into or stay in a higher level competition

You Galway lads not even know the height of u lads. Paul Conroy, all 6ft 4 of him is not a ball fetching midfielder, right, Tierney a inch bigger again, christ.

Literally a simple google will tell you Conroy's not 6 4'. We've been watching him for 15 years, often as the midfield partner of actual 6 4' players such as Tom Flynn or Fintain o'Currain.

This is one of the oddest things I've ever seen someone get butthurt over. Galway fans explaining an area that their team is lacking in and an opposition fan trying to argue against it. Weird

He is 6'3" or thereabouts.

This could come down to inches

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

By Sunday Game I presume you mean league Sunday. In which case absolutely no social media footage was used. Just the camera used in the TG4 footage. Let's stick to the facts here

I think this entire thread shows how much a shambles the system is. No one appealed in this case just for the sake of it. No one was cleared on mere technicalities or because I 's weren't dotted or t's weren't crossed. Nor did the language of the referees report result in appeals being successful. Proper procedures were not followed and there was real prejudice caused by those failings. No one should be expected to accept a ban that has not been fairly applied. In that regard justice has been done.

There is though a real opportunity for the Association to look at the farce that this case has demonstrated and to learn from it. Unfortunately I doubt the association will.

I agree with you that the whole thing is a farce and it has been a farce long before this incident. We in Armagh have not made it a farce. Though I am not yet sure that we haven't exploited a farcical set up.

Over the course of these debates you have proved yourself more knowledgeable about the appeals processes than I am. I bow to that. But you are stating categorically that these players have not got off on technicalities. Now given that a guilty player who gets off based upon a procedural error is the very definition of "getting off on a technicality" can you provide a little clarity on these cases and why you can make such a categoric statement?

I genuinely would like someone to spell out the case against the players and why it was overturned. I presume anyone making categoric statements must be in possession of those facts.

The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.

Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.

There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).

What makes you say they are cracking down on punches, headlocks etc. None of the 3 Armagh players were cited for this. None of them were involved in any of this. The height of the complaint against them was that they contributed to a melee. This whole process was a farce from start to finish.

In answer to your question is the various punishments that have been meted out for punching and subsequent to the Armagh vs Tyrone match, headlocks.

I never said any of Armagh players were cited for punches or headlocks so you appear to be answering a question nobody has posed.

I would not be as confident as you that these players were not involved in something. The referee saw something.

The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.

Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.

There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).

All Armagh players have had their suspensions overturned

On what basis?

Don't know. But then we never really got to here what the charges were on what the evidence against them was. Mackin did look guilty to me on the video but he is out injured so suspended or not it makes no difference.

This was a disgraceful stunt by Donegal to get men sent off. It is welcome that they were only partly successful. Hopefully, Armagh will gave the sense not to fall into such traps in future.

It's amazing how people can change their mind when the shoe is on the other foot. For the tyrone armagh row you said

But teams could set a standard too, they could tell their players that if they do join in a melee that they will not be trying to get the off.
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Seems now when armagh get involved it's the other teams fault. Great to see hypocrisy  alive and well.

O'Neill didn't join the melee, the melee was started to get him sent off.

I still think they need something to stop the "all in" aspect, not least because if there are only two or three involved then there is a batter chance of seeing what is going on. Hpwever, it is hard to see how you get from here to there.

Its simple. Team penalties.

Unfortunately the will is not there within the GAA community to do anything about it.

Team penalties are the way to go. Heavy penalties at that

Give us an example of a team penalty that would be an effective deterrent.

It's easy to think of a deterrent. All you have to do is make it very punitive e.g. heavy financial penalty, suspension from competition, embargo on holding home games. Heavier versions of these penalties to be held over for second offences.

The question is not can you think of a deterrent but whether you can get it through Congress.

The disciplinary process and the melee both need looked at.

Penalties have to stick or there is no point in them. I welcome the position the referees are taking of standing back and gathering what evidence they can. Worth noting that the punishments based upon the referee's view stuck whereas the camera didn't.

So far there is a clear position of looking for punches, headlocks or throwing to the ground rather than just grabbing a jersey. I don't think this goes far enough. The joining in also needs punished. If you deter that then you don't get the punches, headlocks etc.

Ultimately this will come to a head when a serious injury is inflicted. There is a basic presumption that something that happens on a pitch won't end in a court of law. Which is true right up to the point where it isn't.

This was a disgraceful stunt by Donegal to get men sent off. It is welcome that they were only partly successful. Hopefully, Armagh will gave the sense not to fall into such traps in future.

It's amazing how people can change their mind when the shoe is on the other foot. For the tyrone armagh row you said

But teams could set a standard too, they could tell their players that if they do join in a melee that they will not be trying to get the off.
ReplyQuoteNotify

Seems now when armagh get involved it's the other teams fault. Great to see hypocrisy  alive and well.

O'Neill didn't join the melee, the melee was started to get him sent off.

I still think they need something to stop the "all in" aspect, not least because if there are only two or three involved then there is a batter chance of seeing what is going on. Hpwever, it is hard to see how you get from here to there.

Its simple. Team penalties.

Unfortunately the will is not there within the GAA community to do anything about it.

Team penalties are the way to go. Heavy penalties at that

Other three suspensions stand I believe
Process for O Neill was always going to be challenged.

Yet still nobody knows what the other 3 lads did to warrant suspensions (or the Donegal lads for that matter). There is no video evidence showing their discretions, at least with O'Neill you could see some form of semblance of a striking action no matter how minimal it was.

So if the same thing happens again, a few random lads from each side will get pulled out by the referee based on his proximity to them at the time. Instead of basing it on the actual available video evidence which doesn't show them doing anything more than any other player.

This would be normal. The normal starting point for punishment is what the officials saw, not what the camera saw.

You might not know what the referee saw but the players know.

You assume that lads have been selected at random. Is it not just possible that the ref hit a clear line of sight on some offences but not all offences and we just have to go on living in an imperfect world?

Geezer has played a blinder in the background.

What does this mean?

He kept his cards close to his chest by not commenting publicly on the incident in the media which I had wondered whether was the right approach at the time. But he knew what he was doing and got the O'Neill suspension overturned and that at least gives Armagh a chance.

Hopefully the other 3 lads can get justice now as well.

So that qualifies as a blinder then? Right hoh

Geezer has played a blinder in the background.

What does this mean?