I never watch those most haunted shows on t.v as i find that they are not trustworthy and probably staged with special effects but i do question the whole ghost/spirit world..... :o :o :o :o
i have heard plenty of stories and from people i know would not lie!
and my sister is a firm believer in "the hag"
just wondering what do you's think?
have ye any stories?
appropriate thread what with it nearly being Halloween!
I believe in ghosts.
the mobile was sitting on the couch beside me and the screen had gone black and then it just lit up by itself - as if someone/something pressed a button on it! :o
I see dead people
I see stupid people, and once or twice I have been overcome by the un-natural strength of evil spirits.
Does Casper count???????
No but seriously, i have heard that the Ballygally Castle Hotel was haunted (dont even know if it is still open for business)
apparently the house on the hill on the dublin side of the bridge at slane is haunted and thats why no one lives in it and that when someone did go to look at it there was blood dripping down the walls!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe in ghosts leenie, I've seen enough of them in my time.
As for Most Haunted... load of bollocks.
we have a thing in my family and extended family, and i'm not sure where it came from but as soon as a pack of cards is brought into a house the jokers have to burned straight away....
and they must be burned you can't get read of them any other way!!!!!!
its something to do with spirits!
Christ Almighty it's 2008! Men have walked on the moon.
(Honestly, pints).
Quote from: leenie on October 16, 2008, 10:19:51 PM
we have a thing in my family and extended family, and i'm not sure where it came from but as soon as a pack of cards is brought into a house the jokers have to burned straight away....
and they must be burned you can't get read of them any other way!!!!!!
its something to do with spirits!
Sounds like a cross between Texas Hold'em and Beg A My Neighbour...
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:21:23 PM
Christ Almighty it's 2008! Men have walked on the moon.
(Honestly, pints).
no they havent.
Ghosts don't make much sense but too many things have been seen by to many people to suggest they are not real. I think I've seen a ghost, it was a member of the family - I wonder if it was a case of me wanting to see them again - possibly but then that doesnt explain people who see strangers as ghosts.
What's the explanation? Everyone who see a ghost arent drunk, on drugs, insane etc.
Quote from: leenie on October 16, 2008, 10:19:51 PM
we have a thing in my family and extended family, and i'm not sure where it came from but as soon as a pack of cards is brought into a house the jokers have to burned straight away....
and they must be burned you can't get read of them any other way!!!!!!
its something to do with spirits!
I know several families that do that. I know of one family in Douglas Bridge were they are forbidden to play cards on a Sunday.
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
Is it that ridiculous to believe in the supernatural (if not ghosts per se)?
(http://www.charmaineyoest.com/uploads/Fish_Bike_woman_ray_troll.jpg)
You must be bored Puck, if you googled that picture.
You have no idea.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 16, 2008, 10:35:00 PM
Is it that ridiculous to believe in the supernatural (if not ghosts per se)?
Yes.
I'm off for a pint now, but if the supernatural works, there's no reason we can't continue this debate by telepathy. I'll be awaiting your message.
But wait - you didnt give me your IC address hardy.
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
Because a trained midget giraffe doesnt dress up as someone that has died hardy dont be silly.
As for martians? don't tell me you believe we are alone in this universe?
Have you or anyone belonging to you never seen a "ghost"?
I would have always believed in ghosts and Im open minded to my "expierience".
Everyone who has seen ghosts cant be mad hardy - what do you put these experiences down to?
My brother, who would be the last person in the world to believe in anything like this changed his mine after an experience too.
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
give me a good reason why we shouldn't believe........
Im with you on this one Pints. The ma swears she seen one as well one night at the bottom of the lane .
He's gone leenie - and he's taken out his blue tooth. Dont worry - he'll have a bunch of messages from me waiting for him in the morning, but he'll probably think its a hangover, unless he has his Wifi bringing him a coffee when he's finished with his wap. Ah well - Im sure he'll get (a) great reception down the pub.
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
(http://www.rochfortbridge.com/files/damiengavin.gif)
Best I can do on short notice Hardy, and have an imaginary pint of fcuku on me...
Did you PhotoShop that?
Pure and utter bollocks in my opinion. Preconceptive bias and the power of suggestion.
J70, I've seen and heard stuff that is unmistakeable. Ghosts exist, just not on UK Living.
Quote from: leenie on October 16, 2008, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
give me a good reason why we shouldn't believe........
Perhaps someone could also tell us why we shouldn't believe in fairies and leprechauns and banshees.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
J70, I've seen and heard stuff that is unmistakeable. Ghosts exist, just not on UK Living.
Unmistakeable in what way?
Seen them with my own eyes and heard them with my own ears.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2008, 10:57:29 PM
Seen them with my own eyes and heard them with my own ears.
Pardon my skepticism, but I'll need some details!
J70 I know somenoe who lived in a house where they'd hear footsteps on the stairs, stuff was moved around the house and I mean they'd go to bed and everything in the kitchen would be away in the drawers/cupboards etc and when they'd get up everything would be round the house! Furniture would be moved etc etc.
What caused this? THeir imagination?
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2008, 10:59:00 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2008, 10:57:29 PM
Seen them with my own eyes and heard them with my own ears.
Pardon my skepticism, but I'll need some details!
I'd rather not share them on a public forum.
There are no ghosts, leprechauns, banshees, goblins, trolls, monsters, aliens, free state cute hoors.
One of those is a lie.
Listen, I've yet to speak to anyone who has seen one. It's always, the uncle, neighbours, friend.....a bit like the dying relative who sees the great grandfather standing at the end of the bed even though the chemical imbalance in the brain is recalling hidden memories.
I've washed gravestones long into the night.
Convince me Ziggy that you weren't on medication, tired, emotional nor drunk.
However, if you believe in God without proof (faith), then you can believe in ghosts I suppose.
I believe in God ONeill. Not God ONeill, I'm just replying to ONeill that I believe in God.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 16, 2008, 11:00:47 PM
J70 I know somenoe who lived in a house where they'd hear footsteps on the stairs, stuff was moved around the house and I mean they'd go to bed and everything in the kitchen would be away in the drawers/cupboards etc and when they'd get up everything would be round the house! Furniture would be moved etc etc.
What caused this? THeir imagination?
How should I know Pints? Maybe the neighbour was sneaking in and doing it for a laugh. Maybe someone in the house sleepwalks. Maybe your friend is pulling your leg. But if you can show me some serious, scientific studies under controlled conditions that point to the existence of ghosts, I would certainly take a look at them.
Derek Acorah played for Glentoran, y'know.
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:08:30 PM
Derek Acorah played for Glentoran, y'know.
Same guy or a namesake?
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2008, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 16, 2008, 11:00:47 PM
J70 I know somenoe who lived in a house where they'd hear footsteps on the stairs, stuff was moved around the house and I mean they'd go to bed and everything in the kitchen would be away in the drawers/cupboards etc and when they'd get up everything would be round the house! Furniture would be moved etc etc.
What caused this? THeir imagination?
How should I know Pints? Maybe the neighbour was sneaking in and doing it for a laugh. Maybe someone in the house sleepwalks. Maybe your friend is pulling your leg. But if you can show me some serious, scientific studies under controlled conditions that point to the existence of ghosts, I would certainly take a look at them.
Ah you're moving the goal posts. Sure hang on till I carry out a couple of scientific studies - and you still would find something else. You'll have to wait till I die and I'm looking up you and hardy, yous will believe when I've all the plates in the house broke!
Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:08:30 PM
Derek Acorah played for Glentoran, y'know.
Same guy or a namesake?
Same guy. Though he was called Derek Johnson in those days. Played mainly for the Seconds. Run out of the club after being overheard in the changing room saying he could feel the presence of a man.
Odd but true. Well, except that last bit ;)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 16, 2008, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 16, 2008, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 16, 2008, 11:00:47 PM
J70 I know somenoe who lived in a house where they'd hear footsteps on the stairs, stuff was moved around the house and I mean they'd go to bed and everything in the kitchen would be away in the drawers/cupboards etc and when they'd get up everything would be round the house! Furniture would be moved etc etc.
What caused this? THeir imagination?
How should I know Pints? Maybe the neighbour was sneaking in and doing it for a laugh. Maybe someone in the house sleepwalks. Maybe your friend is pulling your leg. But if you can show me some serious, scientific studies under controlled conditions that point to the existence of ghosts, I would certainly take a look at them.
Ah you're moving the goal posts. Sure hang on till I carry out a couple of scientific studies - and you still would find something else. You'll have to wait till I die and I'm looking up you and hardy, yous will believe when I've all the plates in the house broke!
Moving the goalposts? How? I wasn't asking for a controlled scientific analysis of your friend's allegedly haunted house. Any studies will do.
As for not believing, you asked for an alternative explanation. As I pointed out with a couple off the top of my head, there are generally numerous, regular, mundane, everyday explanations that could account for alleged paranormal activity. The burden of proof is on you.
You wanted ziggy's experience and when I give you one you want scientific proof - which you know I'm not going to have as i don't go around carrying out experiments on ghosts.
You've provided possible explanations - sleepwalking, neither of them slept walk and they'd lie beside each other in the bed listening to all this shite.
neighbours sneeking in? hmmm I doubt it! What sort of neighbours have you?
Pulling my leg? i've no reason to doubt them.
I was working on my own in a really old house near Athboy in Meath last year,I was in the front bedroom connecting a few cables into the fuseboard when all of a sudden I got this feeling there was someone there behind me,I looked around and there wasn't anyone but I became overcome with the feeling that there was something there..
I really got freaked out and I packed up my stuff and left,The next day I had to go back and I got talking to a plumber who was working there and he started telling me something of a similar story to what I experienced,He had been fitting a rad in the same room and he also said he got a little freaked and had left..
I'm not easily spooked but I really felt uneasy that day and I'm convinced there was someting or someone in the room where I was..
I said it to the owner and he said he hadn't noticed anything strange but his elderly Uncle had just died in the house a few months before hand in the same room where I had been working
If you're a card carrying, fully signed up true believer in the one holy and apostolic roman Catholic church, then I don't think you can be casting aspersions on folks who believe in ghosts - angels, saints, virgin births, water into wine, rising from the dead, ascensions and assumptions into heaven? And people sneer at voodoo.
For my part I don't know if there is a "spirit world". Went out with a girl, very down to earth, not religious, who strongly believed in it, claimed to have seen ghosts of her mum & Gran, and it all seemed to give her some comfort that they were with her. She went to see our buddy Derek Acorah, and his words seemed to help her, even if I think he's taking advantage of people's loss. She found something she obviously needed after the early death of mum. What harm I say?
I'm a strong believer in science, for instance I abhor intelligent design and creationism, believing religion should never be taught as science. I'm also savvy enough to realise the opposite is true, science shouldn't be taught as religion either. Science has evolved too, infact was born of religious orders in most cases. Human belief in spirits is as old as humans themselves. Our need for belief systems, be they religious or somehow scientific, are equally as old. Experiences we don't understand or can't process we try to articulate and share through a common set of ideas - ghosts are just be one of those.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 16, 2008, 10:52:05 PM
Did you PhotoShop that?
I presume you're taking the piss and it's got lost in translation, that's the Tom Markham Cup...
I know of another case which members of my girlfriends in laws family were involved...
Basically the granny of this family died...The son of the woman has a child who at the time was only about 18months old and just starting to speak.
The night of the burial the son was woken up by the child,When he looked across the child was standing up in the cot waving at the door and was saying "bye nana"
The child was never told his granny had died nor was he at any of the funeral masses or burial....
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 16, 2008, 11:48:55 PM
I know of another case which members of my girlfriends in laws family were involved...
Basically the granny of this family died...The son of the woman has a child who at the time was only about 18months old and just starting to speak.
The night of the burial the son was woken up by the child,When he looked across the child was standing up in the cot waving at the door and was saying "bye nana"
The child was never told his granny had died nor was he at any of the funeral masses or burial....
To be fair though LL babies comprehend a lot more than we give them credit for, what they lack is the ability to articulate. for instance saw a program one night about parents who were teach their children sign language? Children understand a lot of what is said to them as toddlers, but the matching ability to speak takes longer to develop. Anyway sign language allows them to communicate non verbally. One day one of these sets of parents were in the local supermarket (no doubt taking up valuable family designated parking spaces close to the door :) ) with their kid. As they passed through the cold food section the child start to sign "rabbit" to them they looked around, saw no rabbits, thought it was just random thought until they went to the counter and the butcher opened his mouth to reveal gigantic buck teeth :) Anyway not saying it was something similar in this case, just kids pick up on a lot we don't give them credit for.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:44:28 PM
For my part I don't know if there is a "spirit world". Went out with a girl, very down to earth, not religious, who strongly believed in it, claimed to have seen ghosts of her mum & Gran, and it all seemed to give her some comfort that they were with her. She went to see our buddy Derek Acorah, and his words seemed to help her, even if I think he's taking advantage of people's loss. She found something she obviously needed after the early death of mum. What harm I say?
one of those.
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 16, 2008, 11:36:28 PM
I was working on my own in a really old house near Athboy in Meath last year,I was in the front bedroom connecting a few cables into the fuseboard when all of a sudden I got this feeling there was someone there behind me,I looked around and there wasn't anyone but I became overcome with the feeling that there was something there..
I really got freaked out and I packed up my stuff and left,The next day I had to go back and I got talking to a plumber who was working there and he started telling me something of a similar story to what I experienced,He had been fitting a rad in the same room and he also said he got a little freaked and had left..
I'm not easily spooked but I really felt uneasy that day and I'm convinced there was someting or someone in the room where I was..
I said it to the owner and he said he hadn't noticed anything strange but his elderly Uncle had just died in the house a few months before hand in the same room where I had been working
It was a draft by the window.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 16, 2008, 11:48:55 PM
I know of another case which members of my girlfriends in laws family were involved...
Basically the granny of this family died...The son of the woman has a child who at the time was only about 18months old and just starting to speak.
The night of the burial the son was woken up by the child,When he looked across the child was standing up in the cot waving at the door and was saying "bye nana"
The child was never told his granny had died nor was he at any of the funeral masses or burial....
The poor child was looking for a banana.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:56:51 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 16, 2008, 11:48:55 PM
I know of another case which members of my girlfriends in laws family were involved...
Basically the granny of this family died...The son of the woman has a child who at the time was only about 18months old and just starting to speak.
The night of the burial the son was woken up by the child,When he looked across the child was standing up in the cot waving at the door and was saying "bye nana"
The child was never told his granny had died nor was he at any of the funeral masses or burial....
To be fair though LL babies comprehend a lot more than we give them credit for, what they lack is the ability to articulate. for instance saw a program one night about parents who were teach their children sign language? Children understand a lot of what is said to them as toddlers, but the matching ability to speak takes longer to develop. Anyway sign language allows them to communicate non verbally. One day one of these sets of parents were in the local supermarket (no doubt taking up valuable family designated parking spaces close to the door :) ) with their kid. As they passed through the cold food section the child start to sign "rabbit" to them they looked around, saw no rabbits, thought it was just random thought until they went to the counter and the butcher opened his mouth to reveal gigantic buck teeth :) Anyway not saying it was something similar in this case, just kids pick up on a lot we don't give them credit for.
Childhood story of my own here.
When I was a kid (like really young - under 3) I got up in the middle of the night and encountered a dog in the hallway (when you're that age, you just accept the bizarre). Don't remember seeing it, as it was dark, but can remember actually reaching down and stroking it. For a few years afterwards I swore that this actually happened - it seemed 100% real to me. Or at least looking back I think it did - do I remember the incident, or just remember remembering it? One of only a handful of memories I have from before my younger brother was born when I was 3 (I can date it as I moved bedroom when he was born). Thing is, I now know that this didn't actually happen. I must've just dreamt it - even though my memory is still of a 'real life' incident.
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:44:28 PM
For my part I don't know if there is a "spirit world". Went out with a girl, very down to earth, not religious, who strongly believed in it, claimed to have seen ghosts of her mum & Gran, and it all seemed to give her some comfort that they were with her. She went to see our buddy Derek Acorah, and his words seemed to help her, even if I think he's taking advantage of people's loss. She found something she obviously needed after the early death of mum. What harm I say?
one of those.
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Tried to pick my words carefully myself, tis a litigious age we live in, even on the tinterbobble.
It's a tough situation to be in, there's a delicate line to thread between indulging a person's need for some sort of answers, and protecting them from predators.
It's similar/identical with fortune tellers etc. These people, I feel at least, can no more read the future than you or me. What they can read though is
people, and they know how extract info, and manipulate their thoughts. On the other hand people find solace in it. Even considered going to one myself at my very lowest ebb, just for some self delusion.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:56:51 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 16, 2008, 11:48:55 PM
I know of another case which members of my girlfriends in laws family were involved...
Basically the granny of this family died...The son of the woman has a child who at the time was only about 18months old and just starting to speak.
The night of the burial the son was woken up by the child,When he looked across the child was standing up in the cot waving at the door and was saying "bye nana"
The child was never told his granny had died nor was he at any of the funeral masses or burial....
To be fair though LL babies comprehend a lot more than we give them credit for, what they lack is the ability to articulate. for instance saw a program one night about parents who were teach their children sign language? Children understand a lot of what is said to them as toddlers, but the matching ability to speak takes longer to develop. Anyway sign language allows them to communicate non verbally. One day one of these sets of parents were in the local supermarket (no doubt taking up valuable family designated parking spaces close to the door :) ) with their kid. As they passed through the cold food section the child start to sign "rabbit" to them they looked around, saw no rabbits, thought it was just random thought until they went to the counter and the butcher opened his mouth to reveal gigantic buck teeth :) Anyway not saying it was something similar in this case, just kids pick up on a lot we don't give them credit for.
Friend of the woman has a 1 year old, just starting to talk, loves investigating, the usual shite. Anyways has a fasination with animals, or to be more precise animal sounds. Anytime they pass a black man in the park he makes a monkey sound, needless to say she is highly embarrased. She'll see the funny side one day...
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Acorah has been exposed as a fraud, not that I ever believed him. That's why he was replaced on Most Haunted.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 17, 2008, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:44:28 PM
For my part I don't know if there is a "spirit world". Went out with a girl, very down to earth, not religious, who strongly believed in it, claimed to have seen ghosts of her mum & Gran, and it all seemed to give her some comfort that they were with her. She went to see our buddy Derek Acorah, and his words seemed to help her, even if I think he's taking advantage of people's loss. She found something she obviously needed after the early death of mum. What harm I say?
one of those.
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Tried to pick my words carefully myself, tis a litigious age we live in, even on the tinterbobble.
It's a tough situation to be in, there's a delicate line to thread between indulging a person's need for some sort of answers, and protecting them from predators.
It's similar/identical with fortune tellers etc. These people, I feel at least, can no more read the future than you or me. What they can read though is
people, and they know how extract info, and manipulate their thoughts. On the other hand people find solace in it. Even considered going to one myself at my very lowest ebb, just for some self delusion.
I think it's abusive and manipulative to feed off the vulnerable. Maybe people do need to kid themselves, but I don't think "mediums" can know whether the stories they spin to them will have a benign or damaging effect.
I think you're right that mediums and fortune tellers, the successful ones anyway, are good at reading people (much like Brown, in fact).
Some of the stuff Brown has done on 'cold reading' is very interesting - seems to be a very acute form of charlatanism, and fairly easy to replicate if you've got good verbal and interpersonal skills.
In one way I'd actually like to go to one of these people to see if I could spot what they were doing.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 17, 2008, 12:12:25 AM
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Acorah has been exposed as a fraud, not that I ever believed him. That's why he was replaced on Most Haunted.
Indeed he has, though Most Haunted is hardly cast in any better light than he is:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16303507&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=spooky-truth--tv-s-most-haunted-con-exposed-tv--n
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4500322.stmame_page.html
I think Ofcom got it right about Most Haunted though, it shouldn't be taken seriously - it's entertainment, a drama just like WWE is acting, not sport.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 17, 2008, 12:10:48 AM
Friend of the woman has a 1 year old, just starting to talk, loves investigating, the usual shite. Anyways has a fasination with animals, or to be more precise animal sounds. Anytime they pass a black man in the park he makes a monkey sound, needless to say she is highly embarrased. She'll see the funny side one day...
The cub must be watching too much Eastern European soccer :D
Quote from: MW on October 17, 2008, 12:13:07 AM
Quote from: Mentalman on October 17, 2008, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: MW on October 16, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on October 16, 2008, 11:44:28 PM
For my part I don't know if there is a "spirit world". Went out with a girl, very down to earth, not religious, who strongly believed in it, claimed to have seen ghosts of her mum & Gran, and it all seemed to give her some comfort that they were with her. She went to see our buddy Derek Acorah, and his words seemed to help her, even if I think he's taking advantage of people's loss. She found something she obviously needed after the early death of mum. What harm I say?
one of those.
I think Derren Brown was pretty much spot on in his book when he referred to "mediums" (media?) who prey on the bereaved and vulnerable as "abusive scum". (he was careful not to personalise things with Acorah though)
Tried to pick my words carefully myself, tis a litigious age we live in, even on the tinterbobble.
It's a tough situation to be in, there's a delicate line to thread between indulging a person's need for some sort of answers, and protecting them from predators.
It's similar/identical with fortune tellers etc. These people, I feel at least, can no more read the future than you or me. What they can read though is
people, and they know how extract info, and manipulate their thoughts. On the other hand people find solace in it. Even considered going to one myself at my very lowest ebb, just for some self delusion.
I think it's abusive and manipulative to feed off the vulnerable. Maybe people do need to kid themselves, but I don't think "mediums" can know whether the stories they spin to them will have a benign or damaging effect.
I think you're right that mediums and fortune tellers, the successful ones anyway, are good at reading people (much like Brown, in fact).
Some of the stuff Brown has done on 'cold reading' is very interesting - seems to be a very acute form of charlatanism, and fairly easy to replicate if you've got good verbal and interpersonal skills.
In one way I'd actually like to go to one of these people to see if I could spot what they were doing.
On the other hand religion's, to a lesser or greater extent, have been doing this for ever. Perhaps in the absence of strong binding religious beliefs more people are turning to this stuff? That's probably another discussion.
Saw a very interesting program one night about how tarot readings were actually "invented" by the church. The particular priest talking about this gave such a reading to the presenter on a common problem people go to tarot readers for - infidelity. It was amazing how he could spin the reading out, while explaining everything he was doing, which more or less was like logic game, and he wasn't employing any interpersonal reading skills of the person presenting the problem. A real eye opener.
A few of my friends frequent fortune tellers, and I've taken it upon myself to "interview" them afterwards. When you reconstruct what's actually happened it's truely amazing. People volunteer in my estimation at least 75% of the information that they come out telling you is their future. The rest is made up of common life scenarios, and high probability prediction e.g. you say your in a trade, they tell you you are going to have an accident. another large element of it is referrals - friends and family refer friends and family by contacting tellers directly to make appointments - sure there is practically a case file ready before they even get in the door. Amazing stuff. Like I said, self delusion.
Anyone ever dabbled with a Ouija board
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 17, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
Anyone ever dabbled with a Ouija board
No, but I've seen people use them. Consequences wasn't good either.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 17, 2008, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 17, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
Anyone ever dabbled with a Ouija board
No, but I've seen people use them. Consequences wasn't good either.
Was always too scared as a young'un to tell the truth. Things like that, spirit interventions or no, can have unforseen effects on the human mind, loosening things we're not even aware of. Bit of it used to go on on the estate I was reared on and it all ended badly, one kid entering psychosis as a result, despite the fact when they got to the bottom of it the leader of the adventure was manipulating the board "for a laugh". Delicate thing the human mind.
Reading some doggie tales here reminds me of something that I cannot logically explain....
Some years back, when my mother died, the family dog acted in a way that half scared me at the time. Matter of fact, it still does.....
The poor mutt was more or less left to himself for some days afterwards and I suppose wasn't fed at times and wasn't receiving the attention he was used to from my mother.
One morning my father and one of my brothers were sitting in the kitchen with me when the dog walked in- the back door was open.
Now, the said dog never came into the house before. That was in part because he wasn't encouraged to do so, but also because he never showed the much inclination to come in anyway.
He walked by us and went straight to the ma's bedroom door and pushed against it to get in, this was possible as the bloody door was ajar anyway. We were all speechless and no one moved to stop him.
Then he started to howl.
Cripes! I've heard some howling in my time, both before and after, but nothing matched this. After ten or fifteen seconds, he came back out and went straight out the door, without paying any attention to those of us who were there.
Now the really interesting thing is that he returned to his old form again and was as normal as he ever was, but he absolutely refused to ever come back in after that performance.
He lived on for about three years after that and one could play with him or stroke him but if someone tried to coax him or carry him across the threshold, front or back, he'd get mighty upset and could bare the teeth if he was brought too close.
Now, it is just possible that my mother had taken him in sometime but I could never see her letting him wander about or allow him into her bedroom.
I have seen or heard of a couple of things in my time that may be hard to explain but I wouldn't regard them as being totally out of this world either. Nothing came within an asses's roar of the dog's behaviour on that morning.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 17, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
Anyone ever dabbled with a Ouija board
Used to do it for a laugh when pissed with the lads. There was always some w**ker moving the glass though.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 16, 2008, 11:32:53 PM
You wanted ziggy's experience and when I give you one you want scientific proof - which you know I'm not going to have as i don't go around carrying out experiments on ghosts.
You've provided possible explanations - sleepwalking, neither of them slept walk and they'd lie beside each other in the bed listening to all this shite.
neighbours sneeking in? hmmm I doubt it! What sort of neighbours have you?
Pulling my leg? i've no reason to doubt them.
I asked Ziggy for an account of his experience because I am hardly going to just take his word for it that he sees ghosts (I'm not disputing that he thinks he sees them, as I have no idea of his bona fides).
And again, I am not asking you for scientific proof of your friend's ghost. If there is anything to ghosts in general, there should be plenty of stuff out there on the net. However, to my knowledge, any time hauntings have been rigourously investigated, they've turned out to be either hoaxes or projections (i.e. people misinterpreting some rattle or shadow or photographic artifact based on their own ignorance or bias).
As to bringing the science into it, you are the one who (at least the way I interpreted it) basically said "this is what happens in my friend's house: explain that, if you can!" What the hell do you expect people to say? "Oh yes, it can clearly only be a ghost!"
Regarding my couple of suggestions, I was merely making the point that something like your friend's experience could be down to any number of natural, everyday happenings, not that those particular ones would be the real explanations. Maybe your friend should set up a video camera or sit up himself and watch to see what is turning his house upside down.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 17, 2008, 12:40:56 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 17, 2008, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 17, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
Anyone ever dabbled with a Ouija board
No, but I've seen people use them. Consequences wasn't good either.
Was always too scared as a young'un to tell the truth. Things like that, spirit interventions or no, can have unforseen effects on the human mind, loosening things we're not even aware of. Bit of it used to go on on the estate I was reared on and it all ended badly, one kid entering psychosis as a result, despite the fact when they got to the bottom of it the leader of the adventure was manipulating the board "for a laugh". Delicate thing the human mind.
Very easy for someone to be set up like that with a ouija board.
Lovely pints of Beamish last night. Never heard (or thought?) from Puck. QED. Well, not quite – propositions require rigorous proof before they can be accepted, which is where we came in.
No need to go over the ground. I just endorse everything J70 said. And O'Neill. Just a few additional thoughts:
Someone came up with the one that always arises when people make unsupported claims or reach conclusions without evidence – "prove I'm wrong". Sorry. That's not how it works. The onus of proof is on the person making the unsupported claim. You can't prove a negative. But if you make a positive claim, you are at least expected to support the claim if you want to be taken seriously. "I got a feeling" is not proof, for instance. Nobody, ever, anywhere has proved the existence of a ghost.
http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
My own "ghost" story: A few weeks after my father died, myself (aged thirteen) and my younger brother were alone in the house (sorry – two people can't be alone, but I don't know how else to say it) watching the Late Late Show. The people on the TV were talking about ghosts and it was very creepy stuff. Suddenly, a picture (some sort of "holy picture") fell off the wall and crashed to the floor. It had been on the wall all of my lifetime, at least. A picture had never before and has never since fallen off a wall for no apparent reason in my presence. Should I assume it was done by a ghost - that it was my father trying to communicate? It's one of a (near-infinite, I suppose) set of assumptions I could make, each as invalid as the other because there's not a single shred of evidence to support a conclusion. I'd suggest a substantial proportion of people would immediately support and strongly believe the ghost assumption simply because the circumstances suit the assumption and it's somehow an appealing idea. I'm more inclined to think the string holding it up eventually broke after years of gradual weakening.
"Mediums" are some of the lowest scum of the earth.
And sorry, Croí, but I'm a sceptic, so you'll have to do better than a picture for evidence that Westmeath ever won an All-Ireland title. Couldn't have happened. You imagined the whole thing. I've even heard deluded Westmeath people claiming they won a SENIOR Leinster title one time. Nonsense.
Quote from: Hardy on October 17, 2008, 09:34:21 AM
Lovely pints of Beamish last night. Never heard (or thought?) from Puck. QED. Well, not quite – propositions require rigorous proof before they can be accepted, which is where we came in.
No need to go over the ground. I just endorse everything J70 said. And O'Neill. Just a few additional thoughts:
Someone came up with the one that always arises when people make unsupported claims or reach conclusions without evidence – "prove I'm wrong". Sorry. That's not how it works. The onus of proof is on the person making the unsupported claim. You can't prove a negative. But if you make a positive claim, you are at least expected to support the claim if you want to be taken seriously. "I got a feeling" is not proof, for instance. Nobody, ever, anywhere has proved the existence of a ghost.
http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
My own "ghost" story: A few weeks after my father died, myself (aged thirteen) and my younger brother were alone in the house (sorry – two people can't be alone, but I don't know how else to say it) watching the Late Late Show. The people on the TV were talking about ghosts and it was very creepy stuff. Suddenly, a picture (some sort of "holy picture") fell off the wall and crashed to the floor. It had been on the wall all of my lifetime, at least. A picture had never before and has never since fallen off a wall for no apparent reason in my presence. Should I assume it was done by a ghost - that it was my father trying to communicate? It's one of a (near-infinite, I suppose) set of assumptions I could make, each as invalid as the other because there's not a single shred of evidence to support a conclusion. I'd suggest a substantial proportion of people would immediately support and strongly believe the ghost assumption simply because the circumstances suit the assumption and it's somehow an appealing idea. I'm more inclined to think the string holding it up eventually broke after years of gradual weakening.
"Mediums" are some of the lowest scum of the earth.
And sorry, Croí, but I'm a sceptic, so you'll have to do better than a picture for evidence that Westmeath ever won an All-Ireland title. Couldn't have happened. You imagined the whole thing. I've even heard deluded Westmeath people claiming they won a SENIOR Leinster title one time. Nonsense.
Do you believe in God and an Afterlife?
I know it's not a ghost story but this thread reminds me of the time, about 6 years ago me and a few friends hired one of them Volkswagen vans when we were in America for a bit of a road trip, as you do! We were driving through some small desert town one night on our way down to Las Vegas. A sand storm kicks in, and a fella from South Armagh who was driving the van took an accidental turn into what looked like government property, complete with the KEEP OUT signs and all that shenanigans.
Next thing we knew there was a really bright circular light shining straight at us and sort of spinning round in front of the van. Well, the driver near shit a brick when he seen this and it caused him to lose control of the vehicle. We near went into a shuck at the side of the road but he managed to keep her straight. Next thing we knew we found ourselves on the outskirts of a small town completely lost. We told the South Armagh lad to mind the dog and stay with the van while the rest of us walked to a local diner to ask for directions.
We're standing in the diner talking away to the waitress behind the counter and the next thing you know the South Armagh lad comes running in with the dog shouting something about seeing aliens. I told him to catch himself on and lay off the Buckfast but sure enough the diner waitress says that although they never actually see the aliens, they do see strange lights and hear strange sounds at night. The chef, Sergio was his name (pronounced "Serge") told us that a month ago, local cattle vanished overnight without a trace and a lot of people moved away. Some hairy assed man, Lester I think his name was, says he was abducted once before, and ends up believing the stupid fecker from South Armagh. He also says that he has pictures. Next thing you know the whole lot of us pile over to his house to get a look at them.
Turns out to there were no pictures at all....they were nothing more than paintings by Lester. It was about 2 in the morning by this stage so yer man offers to let us all stay for the night. The two young girls with us slept in a bunk bed and I ended up sleeping on yer man's couch. The South Armagh lad ended up sleeping up on a roof terrace with the dog and sure enough they are abducted by something that looked like a kind of alien craft. After some struggle on this alien craft, the boyo and the dog find themselves in the middle of nowhere the next morning. He told us that he was awakened by a hippie-chick photographer, Crystal, and her golden retriever, Amber. He ends up trying to get his end away but no joy.
That day me and the two girls were having a few jars and we ended up talking to a crowd that called themselves the SALF: the Search for Alien Life Forms. One of the girls became a bit suspicious when she sees dried mud on their boots. We are in a feckin desert after all! Later on, to try and find an explanation for the muddy boots, we decided to take a dander up to a canyon where we thought a river might run. Turns out the canyon was dry, but we found mining equipment, and in the caves, gold.
Next thing we know the SALF crowd have surrounded us. I threw a few sly digs but they ended up capturing us and they held us hostage. They told us that they stumbled upon this cave when searching for ground to place another SALF dish. Since it was on government land, they decided not to report it, and planned to keep it that way. Sneaky bastards! They are also revealed to be the aliens who abducted the fella from South Armagh and his dog; the UFO was nothing more than a dressed-up helicopter.
To cut a long story short, I ended up opening a can of whoop on their asses. Flying roundhouse kicks, one inch punches, the works. The SALF crowd end up getting arrested by the Police and we ended up smoking doobs in the back of the VW van. It was a strange couple of days!
Never had an experience of a ghost, but I wouldnt dismiss the idea that they exist or take the p1ss out of anyone who claimed they had an experience.
I do think that a lot of what people claim are sightings can be explained in some logical form.
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 17, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
I know it's not a ghost story but this thread reminds me of the time, about 6 years ago me and a few friends hired one of them Volkswagen vans when we were in America for a bit of a road trip, as you do! We were driving through some small desert town one night on our way down to Las Vegas. A sand storm kicks in, and a fella from South Armagh who was driving the van took an accidental turn into what looked like government property, complete with the KEEP OUT signs and all that shenanigans.
Next thing we knew there was a really bright circular light shining straight at us and sort of spinning round in front of the van. Well, the driver near shit a brick when he seen this and it caused him to lose control of the vehicle. We near went into a shuck at the side of the road but he managed to keep her straight. Next thing we knew we found ourselves on the outskirts of a small town completely lost. We told the South Armagh lad to mind the dog and stay with the van while the rest of us walked to a local diner to ask for directions.
We're standing in the diner talking away to the waitress behind the counter and the next thing you know the South Armagh lad comes running in with the dog shouting something about seeing aliens. I told him to catch himself on and lay off the Buckfast but sure enough the diner waitress says that although they never actually see the aliens, they do see strange lights and hear strange sounds at night. The chef, Sergio was his name (pronounced "Serge") told us that a month ago, local cattle vanished overnight without a trace and a lot of people moved away. Some hairy assed man, Lester I think his name was, says he was abducted once before, and ends up believing the stupid fecker from South Armagh. He also says that he has pictures. Next thing you know the whole lot of us pile over to his house to get a look at them.
Turns out to there were no pictures at all....they were nothing more than paintings by Lester. It was about 2 in the morning by this stage so yer man offers to let us all stay for the night. The two young girls with us slept in a bunk bed and I ended up sleeping on yer man's couch. The South Armagh lad ended up sleeping up on a roof terrace with the dog and sure enough they are abducted by something that looked like a kind of alien craft. After some struggle on this alien craft, the boyo and the dog find themselves in the middle of nowhere the next morning. He told us that he was awakened by a hippie-chick photographer, Crystal, and her golden retriever, Amber. He ends up trying to get his end away but no joy.
That day me and the two girls were having a few jars and we ended up talking to a crowd that called themselves the SALF: the Search for Alien Life Forms. One of the girls became a bit suspicious when she sees dried mud on their boots. We are in a feckin desert after all! Later on, to try and find an explanation for the muddy boots, we decided to take a dander up to a canyon where we thought a river might run. Turns out the canyon was dry, but we found mining equipment, and in the caves, gold.
Next thing we know the SALF crowd have surrounded us. I threw a few sly digs but they ended up capturing us and they held us hostage. They told us that they stumbled upon this cave when searching for ground to place another SALF dish. Since it was on government land, they decided not to report it, and planned to keep it that way. Sneaky b**tards! They are also revealed to be the aliens who abducted the fella from South Armagh and his dog; the UFO was nothing more than a dressed-up helicopter.
To cut a long story short, I ended up opening a can of whoop on their asses. Flying roundhouse kicks, one inch punches, the works. The SALF crowd end up getting arrested by the Police and we ended up smoking doobs in the back of the VW van. It was a strange couple of days!
Holy Jaysus. I once saw a dog with 5 legs but you seem to have outdone that.
Quote from: ONeill on October 17, 2008, 10:07:07 AM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 17, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
I know it's not a ghost story but this thread reminds me of the time, about 6 years ago me and a few friends hired one of them Volkswagen vans when we were in America for a bit of a road trip, as you do! We were driving through some small desert town one night on our way down to Las Vegas. A sand storm kicks in, and a fella from South Armagh who was driving the van took an accidental turn into what looked like government property, complete with the KEEP OUT signs and all that shenanigans.
Next thing we knew there was a really bright circular light shining straight at us and sort of spinning round in front of the van. Well, the driver near shit a brick when he seen this and it caused him to lose control of the vehicle. We near went into a shuck at the side of the road but he managed to keep her straight. Next thing we knew we found ourselves on the outskirts of a small town completely lost. We told the South Armagh lad to mind the dog and stay with the van while the rest of us walked to a local diner to ask for directions.
We're standing in the diner talking away to the waitress behind the counter and the next thing you know the South Armagh lad comes running in with the dog shouting something about seeing aliens. I told him to catch himself on and lay off the Buckfast but sure enough the diner waitress says that although they never actually see the aliens, they do see strange lights and hear strange sounds at night. The chef, Sergio was his name (pronounced "Serge") told us that a month ago, local cattle vanished overnight without a trace and a lot of people moved away. Some hairy assed man, Lester I think his name was, says he was abducted once before, and ends up believing the stupid fecker from South Armagh. He also says that he has pictures. Next thing you know the whole lot of us pile over to his house to get a look at them.
Turns out to there were no pictures at all....they were nothing more than paintings by Lester. It was about 2 in the morning by this stage so yer man offers to let us all stay for the night. The two young girls with us slept in a bunk bed and I ended up sleeping on yer man's couch. The South Armagh lad ended up sleeping up on a roof terrace with the dog and sure enough they are abducted by something that looked like a kind of alien craft. After some struggle on this alien craft, the boyo and the dog find themselves in the middle of nowhere the next morning. He told us that he was awakened by a hippie-chick photographer, Crystal, and her golden retriever, Amber. He ends up trying to get his end away but no joy.
That day me and the two girls were having a few jars and we ended up talking to a crowd that called themselves the SALF: the Search for Alien Life Forms. One of the girls became a bit suspicious when she sees dried mud on their boots. We are in a feckin desert after all! Later on, to try and find an explanation for the muddy boots, we decided to take a dander up to a canyon where we thought a river might run. Turns out the canyon was dry, but we found mining equipment, and in the caves, gold.
Next thing we know the SALF crowd have surrounded us. I threw a few sly digs but they ended up capturing us and they held us hostage. They told us that they stumbled upon this cave when searching for ground to place another SALF dish. Since it was on government land, they decided not to report it, and planned to keep it that way. Sneaky b**tards! They are also revealed to be the aliens who abducted the fella from South Armagh and his dog; the UFO was nothing more than a dressed-up helicopter.
To cut a long story short, I ended up opening a can of whoop on their asses. Flying roundhouse kicks, one inch punches, the works. The SALF crowd end up getting arrested by the Police and we ended up smoking doobs in the back of the VW van. It was a strange couple of days!
Holy Jaysus. I once saw a dog with 5 legs but you seem to have outdone that.
That was a Shetland Pony with a hard on.....
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 17, 2008, 09:57:13 AM
Do you believe in God and an Afterlife?
Read my posts and guess!
G's man - my vote for post of the week. Feckit - month
Anyone who has read any of my posts will know that I am not religious. In fact I would go as far as to say I am totally against the notion of mass religion. But I do believe there are such things as ghosts. That is not to say I believe that they are the "spirits" of people who have passed from this world to another. To be honest I don't know what they are. I base my belief in this on two instances. My fathers home place in Co Louth was haunted by what they call poltergeist. There was always banging and crashing in the kitchen at night and when they'd get up in the morning there would be nothing broken. Stuff would move around at night. Harmless enough I know but nothing that can be explained by science.
The 2nd set of information concerns a good friend of mine, a girl, who's home house was haunted by all sorts of ghosts. This girl would not talk to anyone about their experiences so I can tell you 100% it is not shite talk. In this house the ghost of an old woman appeared at her bedside with her finger to her mouth as if sushing a child. The same old woman would then be seen at a mantle piece looking at something. A small child would appear in the bedrooms and would be seen running the corridors. On numerous occassions blankets would be pulled of beds in the night and then pulled of again when put back on. On one occassion, in her sleep, she felt like she was being lifted from the bed. The house was finally blessed and the activity died down. I wouldn't doubt these stories at all knowing the girl and I know she finds it very hard to sit in a room if people are telling ghost stories - she would never volunteer her own either.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 17, 2008, 10:34:11 AM
In this house the ghost of an old woman appeared at her bedside with her finger to her mouth as if sushing a child. The same old woman would then be seen at a mantle piece looking at something. A small child would appear in the bedrooms and would be seen running the corridors. On numerous occassions blankets would be pulled of beds in the night and then pulled of again when put back on. On one occassion, in her sleep, she felt like she was being lifted from the bed.
That sort of sh1te makes the hair on my neck stand :-[
Quote from: maggie on October 16, 2008, 10:03:12 PM
I see dead people
I saw dead people in my garden a couple of christmas' ago, I had to wake the whole house up to warn them about it.
3 bottles of red wine, bottle of whiskey and 1/2 bottle of brandy.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 16, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
(http://www.rochfortbridge.com/files/damiengavin.gif)
Best I can do on short notice Hardy, and have an imaginary pint of fcuku on me...
A moment of family shame.
Hanvn't read all the thread. I do believe in ghosts but have never heard of a ghost doing something bad to someone. They're only scarey becuase we don't know what they are (they may not even be ghosts). I'd love to spend a few nights in a haunted house (with a few friends ;)), anyone know were I can do this?
Tatler Jacks in Killarney is haunted by the distant whoops from scary people in white shirts and red trim. They all have big scraggy beards. The regulars know there's no reason to be scared of them, but every time they meet them, they get weak at the knees. Very odd.
Anyway, it'd be a nice house to spend a few days!
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 17, 2008, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 16, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
(http://www.rochfortbridge.com/files/damiengavin.gif)
Best I can do on short notice Hardy, and have an imaginary pint of fcuku on me...
A moment of family shame.
Come back from the
dark side AZ...
Give us a hint, AZ.
That's my first cousin.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 17, 2008, 10:34:11 AM
Anyone who has read any of my posts will know that I am not religious. In fact I would go as far as to say I am totally against the notion of mass religion. But I do believe there are such things as ghosts. That is not to say I believe that they are the "spirits" of people who have passed from this world to another. To be honest I don't know what they are. I base my belief in this on two instances. My fathers home place in Co Louth was haunted by what they call poltergeist. There was always banging and crashing in the kitchen at night and when they'd get up in the morning there would be nothing broken. Stuff would move around at night. Harmless enough I know but nothing that can be explained by science.
The 2nd set of information concerns a good friend of mine, a girl, who's home house was haunted by all sorts of ghosts. This girl would not talk to anyone about their experiences so I can tell you 100% it is not shite talk. In this house the ghost of an old woman appeared at her bedside with her finger to her mouth as if sushing a child. The same old woman would then be seen at a mantle piece looking at something. A small child would appear in the bedrooms and would be seen running the corridors. On numerous occassions blankets would be pulled of beds in the night and then pulled of again when put back on. On one occassion, in her sleep, she felt like she was being lifted from the bed. The house was finally blessed and the activity died down. I wouldn't doubt these stories at all knowing the girl and I know she finds it very hard to sit in a room if people are telling ghost stories - she would never volunteer her own either.
Has anyone ever tried to investigate it?
Investigate it? Well people in the house have got up to see what was happening and have been met by an empty room. They never called in the most haunted team yet.
QuoteThere was always banging and crashing in the kitchen at night and when they'd get up in the morning there would be nothing broken.
Pipes. The heating can do that.
QuoteStuff would move around at night
Subsidence/poor memory of where they left things.
QuoteThe 2nd set of information concerns a good friend of mine, a girl, who's home house was haunted by all sorts of ghosts.
I'm sorry but the girl probably had an imbalance somewhere in the brain that rectified itself.
QuoteOn numerous occassions blankets would be pulled of beds in the night and then pulled of again when put back on.
Happens me all the time. Poor positioning of the blankets can result in a convergence on one side.
Many ghost stories don't make sense and serve no purpose. If they were 'ghosts' what was the purpose of their activities? Yer woman putting her finger to her lips....what was she trying to achieve?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 17, 2008, 01:21:47 PM
Investigate it? Well people in the house have got up to see what was happening and have been met by an empty room. They never called in the most haunted team yet.
You're the one who said that it was "nothing that can be explained by science".
Well it is my opinion that it can't be explained by science. Would you care to forward a hypothesis for consideration.
Quote from: ONeill on October 17, 2008, 01:35:36 PM
Many ghost stories don't make sense and serve no purpose. If they were 'ghosts' what was the purpose of their activities? Yer woman putting her finger to her lips....what was she trying to achieve?
Maybe the people in the house were keeping her up.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 17, 2008, 01:37:58 PM
Well it is my opinion that it can't be explained by science. Would you care to forward a hypothesis for consideration.
How can you claim that it can't be explained by science if no one has ever attempted to explain it? Has anyone ever even stayed up to observe?
Edit: You said they've got up to look. Well maybe they should try staying up. Is there any pattern to it, in terms of frequency, timing, weather etc.?
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 17, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
I know it's not a ghost story but this thread reminds me of the time, about 6 years ago me and a few friends hired one of them Volkswagen vans when we were in America for a bit of a road trip, as you do! We were driving through some small desert town one night on our way down to Las Vegas. A sand storm kicks in, and a fella from South Armagh who was driving the van took an accidental turn into what looked like government property, complete with the KEEP OUT signs and all that shenanigans.
Next thing we knew there was a really bright circular light shining straight at us and sort of spinning round in front of the van. Well, the driver near shit a brick when he seen this and it caused him to lose control of the vehicle. We near went into a shuck at the side of the road but he managed to keep her straight. Next thing we knew we found ourselves on the outskirts of a small town completely lost. We told the South Armagh lad to mind the dog and stay with the van while the rest of us walked to a local diner to ask for directions.
We're standing in the diner talking away to the waitress behind the counter and the next thing you know the South Armagh lad comes running in with the dog shouting something about seeing aliens. I told him to catch himself on and lay off the Buckfast but sure enough the diner waitress says that although they never actually see the aliens, they do see strange lights and hear strange sounds at night. The chef, Sergio was his name (pronounced "Serge") told us that a month ago, local cattle vanished overnight without a trace and a lot of people moved away. Some hairy assed man, Lester I think his name was, says he was abducted once before, and ends up believing the stupid fecker from South Armagh. He also says that he has pictures. Next thing you know the whole lot of us pile over to his house to get a look at them.
Turns out to there were no pictures at all....they were nothing more than paintings by Lester. It was about 2 in the morning by this stage so yer man offers to let us all stay for the night. The two young girls with us slept in a bunk bed and I ended up sleeping on yer man's couch. The South Armagh lad ended up sleeping up on a roof terrace with the dog and sure enough they are abducted by something that looked like a kind of alien craft. After some struggle on this alien craft, the boyo and the dog find themselves in the middle of nowhere the next morning. He told us that he was awakened by a hippie-chick photographer, Crystal, and her golden retriever, Amber. He ends up trying to get his end away but no joy.
That day me and the two girls were having a few jars and we ended up talking to a crowd that called themselves the SALF: the Search for Alien Life Forms. One of the girls became a bit suspicious when she sees dried mud on their boots. We are in a feckin desert after all! Later on, to try and find an explanation for the muddy boots, we decided to take a dander up to a canyon where we thought a river might run. Turns out the canyon was dry, but we found mining equipment, and in the caves, gold.
Next thing we know the SALF crowd have surrounded us. I threw a few sly digs but they ended up capturing us and they held us hostage. They told us that they stumbled upon this cave when searching for ground to place another SALF dish. Since it was on government land, they decided not to report it, and planned to keep it that way. Sneaky b**tards! They are also revealed to be the aliens who abducted the fella from South Armagh and his dog; the UFO was nothing more than a dressed-up helicopter.
To cut a long story short, I ended up opening a can of whoop on their asses. Flying roundhouse kicks, one inch punches, the works. The SALF crowd end up getting arrested by the Police and we ended up smoking doobs in the back of the VW van. It was a strange couple of days!
Ok. Hands up, be honest. Who didn't get the Scooby Doo link?
Me, for one.
This might be useful for anyone trying to avoid alien abduction ...
http://theofficialsiteofgrantmiller.blogspot.com/2008/01/alien-problem.html
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 17, 2008, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 16, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 16, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Pints - you're an intelligent man. Please tell me you don't really believe that shite. You see something unusual and your first explanation is "it's a ghost". Why pick that conclusion from the infinite number of other similarly ludicrous conclusions? Why is that a better explanation than "it's a Martian" or "it's a trained midget giraffe"?
If there are ghosts, there are flying pigs, fish riding bicycles and Westmeath men with All-Ireland medals.
(http://www.rochfortbridge.com/files/damiengavin.gif)
Best I can do on short notice Hardy, and have an imaginary pint of fcuku on me...
A moment of family shame.
Ah that's rough AZ. He'll be hoping to be lifting more silverware this weekend hopefully.
some v. interesting stories.............
think i am a believer now
I have a theory that I feel may go some way towards explaining many of the phenomena we would regard as being outside the normal course of events. I'm referring to ESP, the so-called sixth sense.
There's considerable debate about the matter, with some psychologists claiming it is a fact that humans, at least some of them some of the time, do get forewarnings about events that lie in the future. Others disagree and claim nothing has been established so far that would conclusively support this theory.
I'm inclined to believe that mankind did indeed possess this "sixth sense" at a much earlier stage of evolution. But as humans developed and evolved into more complex and self-sustaining types of beings, this extra means of taking in information became surplus to requirements and succeeding generations gradually lost the ability to use it.
Vestiges of it may still remain deep in our subconscious minds and some indeed may have greater ability than others to tap into it.
Again, I don't think anyone can prove or disprove this theory but I've read enough from scholarly sources to make me think that there is substance to the notion.
Animals appear to possess this sixth sense to a greater degree than humans.
There's one well-documented case I recall about a dam burst somewhere in mid-America in the 1930s. [I'm afraid it isn't well-documented enough for me to recall exact details off the top of my head.]
Early one morning in a little riverside town, downriver from the dam, the animals and birds in the area began to exhibit signs of distress much to the puzzlement of the local people.
As the morning wore on, this exhibition of unease got worse and people became alarmed as animals and birds began to leave the town—at least those who were free to do so began moving to higher ground.
The townspeople did the same, without knowing why.
Just as well they did, because the dam burst when it happened released a torrent of water that washed their dwellings away.
Did the animals and birds foretell the future and did their collective sixth sense save the townspeople from catastrophe?
All I know is that newspaper accounts of the time did report than dam burst and the fact that many lives would have been lost if the people had not inexplicably decided to move en masse to higher ground.
Are you on a wind up Lar? Surley there must be some other resonable explanation to this story?
I'm all for the sixth sense thing but an entire town following a bunch of animals up a hill first thing in the morning and not knowing why is a bit mad.
Not sure about 6th senses. There seems to be growing evidence that as much as 20% of people are more sensitive than average. The term used is HSP - highly sensitive person. It's a very interesting, in that traits normally seen as negative e.g. shyness, can increase survival, not only of the person but of those around them. Going back to the topic, these people pick up on subtleties often missed by others, audio and visual keys, take in and process a lot more information than the average person. Now the conclusions they come to, if shared, may be seen by them or others as some sort of precognition, but generally it's more than likely (i) they are seeing the world differently, or at least taking more data from it and (ii) people who don't share that capacity try to explain it away as some sort of "special" ability, whereas it's an evolutionarily acquired trait, similar to people who are left handed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_persons)
No, Zap, I am not on a wind up here.
This story has been widely reported and is out forward as a classic case by people who uphold this view. I can't, off hand, give you sources but I suppose I will be able when I have some time tonight to search Google.
I'm not saying it happened as reported but I have read contemporary newspaper accounts that reported the bursting of the dam and the mass exodus of people and animals to higher ground before the calamity occurred.
Again, I am not saying that what I wrote about is the complete unvarnished truth; there has been a lot of ongoing controversy about the incident since but the theory of animals sensing a disaster that was still to happen has never been debunked to my satisfaction either.
What you write, Mentalman is very interesting.
I think there are people who seem to possess some degree of precognition but I wouldn't go further than that. I have an open mind.
There is a link below to an article that some of you may find interesting; again, I am drawing no definite conclusions from it.
I went to school at St. Nathys in Ballaghadereen in the 60s.
There was one lad who wasn't the brightest but he did have some extraordinary abilities.
One day a gang of first years were sent to pick stones out of a ploughed filed.
There were loads of earthworms squiggling about and I remember a group of us passing worms around from hand to hand. Every time a worm was dropped onto this lad's open hand it shot upwards as if struck by an electric charge.
I'm deadly serious about this. The worm shrivelled up and died every time one was dropped onto one of this boy's hands.
This young fellow said he did not experience anything out of the ordinary. He knew he could do this sort of thing for as far back as he could remember.
He gained a reputation for his ability to get watches to work again after they stopped.
Some priests in the college certainly believed in this and passed it off as a gift from God. No doubt, the fact that it saved them a few bob at times also played a part in their thinking.
I cannot explain any of this and it doesn't bother me much, one way or the other—but it can't be explained by rational thinking..
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20000701-000034&page=2 (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20000701-000034&page=2)
Quote from: Zapatista on October 18, 2008, 01:41:03 PM
Are you on a wind up Lar? Surley there must be some other resonable explanation to this story?
I'm all for the sixth sense thing but an entire town following a bunch of animals up a hill first thing in the morning and not knowing why is a bit mad.
Why would he be taking the piss? Use google and you'll see countless examples of animals reacting and fleeing hours and hours before any natural disaster.
I don't know about this village fleeing with the animals but it wouldn't be bad idea!
Listen lads, i always laugh at topics like this, isnt it all relative, I mean everyone out there belives they have a soul dont they and that your soul lives forever. So this is just the human part of eternal journey, its been scientifically proven that were are all energy, ie our aura is our soul, spiirt whatever you wanna call it. Some of us are barely awake in this world, im mean alot of your day is unconcious awareness like a robot you just react to things the same way, like someone pushes your buttons, your no more than a robot.
But there are people out there of a level of conciousness that there experience of life and perception of it is alot closer level to soul rather than this world. So they can percieve energies that are still here but not in there human body. ie ghosts. I have had weird unexplained experiences and being told genuine stories of when people passed away and weird occurances to know that there is definitly some truth in it but beyond alot of people perception so i wont be disclosing it here or anywhere. Its just personal and relative to person.
I dunno if the programme is real because i havnt experienced it, it would be completely different using all your senses instead of just your eyes and ears just.
I thought that this topic had run its course and was going to sink out of sight. However, as the last poster was a Sligo lad, I thought I'd add this before the thread drops down the line.
An elderly couple lives in my neighbourhood and I call around regularly to keep an eye on things generally and to bring the old boy out to the supermarket or the post office and the likes.
Jonjo, the man in questions, hails from Culfadda, near Ballymote and is as black and white an individual as you could meet; if I used the word, 'precognition,' he'd think I had problems starting the car!
Friday afternoon, I dropped in as usual and JJ was on the point of taking his dog out on a lead to walk around the park nearby.
He had always claimed that the dog could sense when they were going to go out and would commence barking and running up and down the hallway. He would also start jumping up to try and pull his lead down from its peg just inside the front door.
I asked JJ to stay in the hallway, while his wife and I brought the dog into the sitting room and closed the door.
I told him to go to the peg and take the lead off the hook as if ready to go out. I also asked him to make as little noise as possible and to repeat the procedure a few times if we got no reaction from Buttons, the mutt. About five minutes at most I told him and the pair of them could go. (JJ is not a patient man!)
Amway, I could hear him pacing about outside the door and muttering to himself. Buttons was lying quietly at my feet – the little fecker knew I'd usually be given a cuppa and a few bikkies and was waiting for his share.
He suddenly shot up after about three minutes or so and began his going out routine.
"Janey Mac," I thought, "that dog has sharp hearing. He must have somehow heard JJ taking the lead off the wall."
I pulled the door into the hallway open; JJ was standing outside, with the lead still on its peg at the other end of the hallway.
The reason he has been so agitated was that when I mentioned the term, ESP, he thought I was talking about his free electricity allowance. He had walked up and down with the blessed lead in his hand, swishing it about and worrying that his allowance was going to be cut. He had taken the lead down two or three times already and when Buttons hadn't barked he decided he had enough and he was on the point of opening the door to tell me to quit the effing messing about.
Now the point of the post is this:
Buttons hadn't reacted when his owner had taken down the lead or carried it about. The split second when JJ raised his hand to push the door open and barge back into the sitting room he came to life!
Also, JJ is quite adamant that he had not yet touched the door when the craic began.
That sequence of events took place exactly as I have described. Unfortunately, I have managed to scare the wits out of my two old friends but Buttons seems totally unconcerned by it all. :D
That's all fair enough and I can understand why we are so convinced by all this.
My theory is that our minds will justify just about anything unless we really question it. The common conspiracy theory is an example. You take two of three facts and link them together by filling in the blanks in order to explain them. We have a need to explain things to there conclusion and often take the shortest path to that conclusion. It is the same as many people convince themselves that they are good and anything bad they ever done can be explained. We often apologies for stuff we are not sorry for. We apologies because it is the easiest and shortest option but we are rarely sorry for what we apologies for. We are only sorry we got caught. We can't admit to ourselves that we did something wrong. Our minds convince us that it is justified in order to take away the guilt and bring things to a conclusion.
We are happy to believe in a sixth sense as it will answer the many questions we would ask ourselves otherwise. Once we pin it to a sixth sense we can conclude and move on. The mind is a strange place and this conclusion we reach could be merely a trick of the mind to put and end to the questions and allow us to continue with our lives free from hang ups and searching for answers. The sixth sense we have and see in others could be a diversion. We don't need to know the truth in order to be happy we only need to accept the explanation. In Irish politics many of us accept the explanation as it is the easy option and requires no thinking. When the explanation has been accepted we can put the issue to bed and continue happily. When we don't accept it we get aggravated and are unhappy. There could be a default setting in the mind to explain things in order to keep us happy and we call it and explain it as a sixth sense.
I find it shocking in this so called scientific age we have people who still believe in ghosts,don't believe in the evolution or the moon landing. As Zap says their is clearly a need in some people too create links and realities even to the extend of denying all the facts before them .
Agreed Gnevin. You'd imagine the enlightenment had never happened; people are willing to accord the same credibility to Uri Geller and The National Enquirer as they are to Newton, Galileo and Einstein.
I hope I'm never (innocently, of course) charged with a serious crime, if the ability of some people to reach conclusions from tenuous evidence is general in the population.
Juror 1: We know he was in the county on the night in question.
Juror 2: And the defence didn't present any evidence that anyone else was in the county that night.
Juror 3: Guilty, then.
Juror 4: I'm not so sure ...
Juror 1: He's definitely guilty - I have a sixth sense about these things.
Juror 4: Well, why didn't you say so?
All: GUILTY!
Quote from: Hardy on October 21, 2008, 09:13:42 AM
Agreed Gnevin. You'd imagine the enlightenment had never happened; people are willing to accord the same credibility to Uri Geller and The National Enquirer as they are to Newton, Galileo and Einstein.
I hope I'm never (innocently, of course) charged with a serious crime, if the ability of some people to reach conclusions from tenuous evidence is general in the population.
Juror 1: We know he was in the county on the night in question.
Juror 2: And the defence didn't present any evidence that anyone else was in the county that night.
Juror 3: Guilty, then.
Juror 4: I'm not so sure ...
Juror 1: He's definitely guilty - I have a sixth sense about these things.
Juror 4: Well, why didn't you say so?
All: GUILTY!
Not to be pedantic and certainly not to completely disagree with what you're saying in general Hardy, but as fas as I'm concerned the Enlightenment was not so much synonomous with advances in Science. It is more known as an age of philosophical and intellectual development and it is primarily chronicled as the genesis of the "nation-state" as we know it today together with modern socio-political ideologies (e.g Rosseau's Social Contract).
I'd say, though, that the advancement of science was one of the products of that philosophical and intellectual development to which you refer, baoithe. The enlightenment marked the birth of rationalism and science is the ultimate expression of rationalism. I'd suggest the enlightenment period marked the turning point when man began to look for rational explanations for how the world works rather than being satisfied with magic and the intervention of gods.
Quote from: Hardy on October 21, 2008, 09:13:42 AM
Agreed Gnevin. You'd imagine the enlightenment had never happened; people are willing to accord the same credibility to Uri Geller and The National Enquirer as they are to Newton, Galileo and Einstein.
I hope I'm never (innocently, of course) charged with a serious crime, if the ability of some people to reach conclusions from tenuous evidence is general in the population.
Juror 1: We know he was in the county on the night in question.
Juror 2: And the defence didn't present any evidence that anyone else was in the county that night.
Juror 3: Guilty, then.
Juror 4: I'm not so sure ...
Juror 1: He's definitely guilty - I have a sixth sense about these things.
Juror 4: Well, why didn't you say so?
All: GUILTY!
That is simplifing the whole thing but I accept it as an explanation and so am happy to agree :)
The opposite of this effect is depression. The questions keep coming and the default isn't working right.
Why am I here?
Do I have a purpose?
Why does no one understand me?
Why does no one think i'm pretty?
If you a asking these questions and no answer will satisfy you you become depressed. Many people do ask them and the most crazy answers are often accepted.
Why am I here? - to serve God.
Do I have a purpose? - to serve God
Why does no one understand me?- God understands me.
Why does no one think i'm pretty? - My mum says I'm pretty.
In this case I'm happy. If the default is not working I can't accept these answers and feel useless and unwanted. My mind is not keeping me happy and I am depressed.
The enlightenment brought a new level of acceptence and brought it to a wider audience who weren't happy with the God explanation. I don't which is the right answer if either are.
QuoteRe: most haunted...real or not real!
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2008, 02:12:49 PM »
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Quote from: The Gs Man on October 17, 2008, 09:58:32 AM
I know it's not a ghost story but this thread reminds me of the time, about 6 years ago me and a few friends hired one of them Volkswagen vans when we were in America for a bit of a road trip, as you do! We were driving through some small desert town one night on our way down to Las Vegas. A sand storm kicks in, and a fella from South Armagh who was driving the van took an accidental turn into what looked like government property, complete with the KEEP OUT signs and all that shenanigans.
Next thing we knew there was a really bright circular light shining straight at us and sort of spinning round in front of the van. Well, the driver near shit a brick when he seen this and it caused him to lose control of the vehicle. We near went into a shuck at the side of the road but he managed to keep her straight. Next thing we knew we found ourselves on the outskirts of a small town completely lost. We told the South Armagh lad to mind the dog and stay with the van while the rest of us walked to a local diner to ask for directions.
We're standing in the diner talking away to the waitress behind the counter and the next thing you know the South Armagh lad comes running in with the dog shouting something about seeing aliens. I told him to catch himself on and lay off the Buckfast but sure enough the diner waitress says that although they never actually see the aliens, they do see strange lights and hear strange sounds at night. The chef, Sergio was his name (pronounced "Serge") told us that a month ago, local cattle vanished overnight without a trace and a lot of people moved away. Some hairy assed man, Lester I think his name was, says he was abducted once before, and ends up believing the stupid fecker from South Armagh. He also says that he has pictures. Next thing you know the whole lot of us pile over to his house to get a look at them.
Turns out to there were no pictures at all....they were nothing more than paintings by Lester. It was about 2 in the morning by this stage so yer man offers to let us all stay for the night. The two young girls with us slept in a bunk bed and I ended up sleeping on yer man's couch. The South Armagh lad ended up sleeping up on a roof terrace with the dog and sure enough they are abducted by something that looked like a kind of alien craft. After some struggle on this alien craft, the boyo and the dog find themselves in the middle of nowhere the next morning. He told us that he was awakened by a hippie-chick photographer, Crystal, and her golden retriever, Amber. He ends up trying to get his end away but no joy.
That day me and the two girls were having a few jars and we ended up talking to a crowd that called themselves the SALF: the Search for Alien Life Forms. One of the girls became a bit suspicious when she sees dried mud on their boots. We are in a feckin desert after all! Later on, to try and find an explanation for the muddy boots, we decided to take a dander up to a canyon where we thought a river might run. Turns out the canyon was dry, but we found mining equipment, and in the caves, gold.
Next thing we know the SALF crowd have surrounded us. I threw a few sly digs but they ended up capturing us and they held us hostage. They told us that they stumbled upon this cave when searching for ground to place another SALF dish. Since it was on government land, they decided not to report it, and planned to keep it that way. Sneaky b**tards! They are also revealed to be the aliens who abducted the fella from South Armagh and his dog; the UFO was nothing more than a dressed-up helicopter.
To cut a long story short, I ended up opening a can of whoop on their asses. Flying roundhouse kicks, one inch punches, the works. The SALF crowd end up getting arrested by the Police and we ended up smoking doobs in the back of the VW van. It was a strange couple of days!
Ok. Hands up, be honest. Who didn't get the Scooby Doo link?
Straight away.
Having a nipper and the Boomerang channel is magic! ;D