This is my first time posting on the Board, however I have viewed the comments made on it for years.
I feel strongly about the existence of the GPA and the announcement made today over player grants.
The sentiments coming from vast majority of posters on the discussion board is that they are opposed to the GPA and what they stand for.
Today President of the GAA, supported by officials signed up (in principle) to a deal that will ultimately led to semi-professionalism for the association, in simple terms our leaders have caved in and GPA has won.
The indications coming from Croke Park over the last 8 months made it clear that the association would not be distributing any money from the Sports Council to players, however today it was agreed that a National Committee comprising of GAA volunteers and "GPA officials?" would administer the grants and they would be supported committees at County Board level.
This issue needs to be debated and decided by the Grassroots, this decision has far reaching consequences and is of more importance (to the internal association) than the rule 21 or rule 42 debates.
Central Council will meet on Saturday 8th December and the President has stated that the purpose of this meeting is to "ratify" the GPA deal............
Central Council is a democratically elected body and doesn't have to ratify anything......call your central council delegate and ask him is he going to vote the GAA out of existence next Saturday......Tell your central council delegate that this month will be election time for him and he should vote against semi-professionalism as the grass roots GAA volunteers in the county put him on the Central Council, they can also take him off it.....!
If you are a GAA member, then ask you Club Secretary to write the Director General and CC your county and provincial secretary, tell the top table at Croke Park that we the Grassroots GAA volunteers say no to this deal. County Conventions will be run across the county in December go to your convention ask to speak under AOB and raise the issue.
Now is the time, we need galvanise the grassroots, let our voice be heard, this is a battle for the future of GAA, we need to take back control of our association and stop the Dublin media and a group of self interested retired players setting the agenda of the largest Sporting, Cultural, Voluntary and Community Organisation in the world....
Tell your Central Council Delegate before next Saturday:
• No to pay for play
• No to players grants being administrated by the GAA
• No to recognition of the GPA
• Yes to Player Welfare
• Yes to Amateurism
• Yes to Grassroots recognition and support
Don't let Dessie Farrell and Co dismantle our Club network, sneak professionalism in through the back door and insult generations of grassroots GAA volunteers who built our association.
Luke - we've been virtually semi professional for a while now anyway- this just makes it official - we're too late - the GAA are seeking to maximise their revenue and the GPA are going to do likewise - we're swimming against the tide - or pissing in the wind - or something like that !
Tool late too late the maiden cried !
Its never to late, If they (the management committee) don't listen, we will shout louder, nothing is impossible, take two minutes of your time and drop an e-mail to your central council delegate, if you are an Armagh man its Gene Duffy....his address will be on the Armagh web-site, tell him that you are opposed to the deal being approved next week and let him know that this is the consensus of the grassroots of the association.
Lets take some action, use this board to push the agenda
And what about hte players, GAA officials and grass roots who support this.....???
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 10:05:49 PM
And what about hte players, GAA officials and grass roots who support this.....???
There's very few of the grass roots that support this, stop making things up Dessie, ya hungry despicable little tr**p
It has to be ratified yet !
If every club was given a vote, it would be IMO a resounding no !
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 10:05:49 PM
And what about hte players, GAA officials and grass roots who support this.....???
There's very few of the grass roots that support this, stop making things up Dessie, ya hungry despicable little tr**p
Stephenite - I respect anyone else here who has their own point of view and believe everyone is entitled to express it.....
Your response is what I would expect from a soccer fan!!!
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
You can bull shit all ye want...the GPA are here to saty and make no mistake about that. All the posters on this board who have belittled the GPA and were certain that this was Custers last stand have been made to look stupid...i mean really brainless and naieve. I can't say that i'm delighted, but i am not surprised thay won this battle. Looks likes Dessie is alot brighter than many of our posters. a massive slice of humble pie boys and make sure not to choke when swallowing. Although the whole think would make you sick. ;) :D Who can this be stopped?...lads it can't....history has shown us time and time again...when money is introduced and lets face it the GAA is now a massive money making machine, intregity and value bases go right out the window. I'm wondering at this stage will my next door neighbours young lad get paid for playing by the time he grows up to play footy for Derry, if hes good enough..I wouldn't hold my breath. Only a matter of time before players are paid, unfortunate, sad, but true.
It's time to wake up and smell the coffee people.There already is a two tier GAA.There is the GAA that we are all members of,with its clubs,its weekly lotto,it's draws etc. and there is another GAA,the Corporate sponsored,Live televised GAA Senior Inter County Championships.The 2 are now but distant cousins.
The 100 or so players who opperate at the very top of both codes are attracting huge revenues both as paying spectators and Tv viewers.
What i know about hurling could be completely written on a postage stamp, but most summer Sundays i sit down to watch a top game.I would recgnise maybe 30 inter county hurlers if I saw their photo.Why should'nt those guys be rewarded for the time and effort they have put into their game in order to get to a level where I and hundreds of thousands of others want to watch them?
I think you're totally wrong there Maximus - I think the GPA have been made to look silly after threatening to throw the toys out of the pram ! The grassroots GAA person is disgusted at the stance the GPA took and they were particularly disappointed with the public utterances of their chief Dessie Farrell - jealous f---kers etc etc - it hasn't served their cause well at all.
Quote from: orangeman on November 29, 2007, 10:51:15 PM
I think you're totally wrong there Maximus - I think the GPA have been made to look silly after threatening to throw the toys out of the pram ! The grassroots GAA person is disgusted at the stance the GPA took and they were particularly disappointed with the public utterances of their chief Dessie Farrell - jealous f---kers etc etc - it hasn't served their cause well at all.
Orangeman I'm a grassroots fan.Go to maybe 20-25 games a year.Hand over maybe 5/600 yoyo a year to the GAA.Do you really think Mr. Duffy gives a thought to what I think?
The GAA needs revenue(Croke Park opening).
If You think for one second that the powers that be in Croke Park would allow the Championship to be effected by a strike then I think you are mistaken.
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:35:30 PM
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
Stephenite - I feel sorry that in your sad mind you can't tolerate someone having a different opinion to yours...I have no connection to the GPA , I would get no benefit or anything out of it....Name any other issue that there has been a "referendum" on with every member voting???? Do you not trust the GAA officials to do what is right for the GAA???
Why don't you demand that every club/county that pay any players/administrators be kicked out of the GAA??
I have done my share for building up the GAA both in a playing, coaching, team setup and administration role so I have as much right as anyone to have my view...
The GPA original reason for setting up was a just reason and no-one could fault them for that. Things today are a lot better for inter-county players.
I say let the GPA stay, but as a watchdog to the GAA to ensure that things don't slip back to what it used to be. However they need to have a clear remit as to what their existance is for. Grants and pay-for-play / professional should not be one of those things.
Dessie and his ilk... well they're not the people for the GPA.
The slippery slope has well and truely started.
Dessie and co. thanks for ruining our beautiful game.
As a GPA member, and hopeful recipiant of the new grant I am happy enough. Had it not been agreed I would have happy enough as long as it didn't interfere with me playing for my county next year. By the way before I get an ear-full I voted against strike but would have followed the majority vote!
This is the first time i've commented on the issue and lads, let me tell you, you's live in a wonderland and I wish I could operate in the purest world you think exists! I get grief in work for leaving to attend training weekends (out of my annual leave), specialist appointments with injury, coming in injured. Even though I had a very bad injury involving 3 bone breaks and only missed 1 day. So tell me that hasn't interfered with promotion etc and that's fair enough but I have been quite bluntly told otherwise!
But I don't care about the money I play for the love of the game and who/what I get the opportunity to represent. But it will be nice to get the grant as an added bonus!
Well it's up to those who don't agree with this move to vote with their feet. I'll not be supporting these mercenaries. They make me sick to the core.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:35:30 PM
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
Stephenite - I feel sorry that in your sad mind you can't tolerate someone having a different opinion to yours...I have no connection to the GPA , I would get no benefit or anything out of it....Name any other issue that there has been a "referendum" on with every member voting???? Do you not trust the GAA officials to do what is right for the GAA???
Why don't you demand that every club/county that pay any players/administrators be kicked out of the GAA??
I have done my share for building up the GAA both in a playing, coaching, team setup and administration role so I have as much right as anyone to have my view...
Stop being childish and either debate the issue or not - where have I pointed out that I cannot tolerate other opinions, it's a serious issue and if you're not prepared to discuss properly without putting words in peoples mouths and coming out with ludicrous suggestions like the ones above to support your argument then there's really not much point, is there?
Do you think that if all GAA members were asked to vote on this, the GPA would receive much support? You seem to intimate as much in your first post on this thread, We're supposed to be a democratic association. I have no problem with the players getting the grant money - I've said that repeatedly, I just don't think our amateur status should be compromised for the association as a whole. The other issue I have is the fact that this is a tiered grant which puts paid to any notion that Farrel, Cusack and McGeeney were looking after all inter county players, Joe Brolly was right all along, Geezer doesn't give a shite about the Mayo hurlers
we've been over the paid officials route before dsfm. That's their job in many cases- so that's an irrelevent point and i think people have pedantically expalined it to you but maybe you speak some other strange dialect of English that the rest of us haven't picked
up on.
The point i made to you before if you add up what the top counties and top players get over the course of a season they do pretty well for amateur sportsmen. This is simply the GPA's way of muscling in on the finance end of things. From their point of view they want a cut of the revenue they create- that's their ultimate ambition. that's fine but then you have a professional organisation and not an amateur one. They aren't going to be happy with 3k in 5 years.
i fully expect that by the time the mini leagues in my club hit minor players will be paid to play county football at least semi-professionally and will not play with their clubs. Thta's the route it's going down. I think we will have some job on our hands to keep the club scene going down the AIL route which is in the abyss. What other way can it go? The next thing is a strike for tv revenue- might be a couple of years but it will happen.
The only sure thing with money is that it goes up- i can't see it going any other way.
And to Simple simon i appreciate what you say but it was your choice . I never played at senior county level but i reached the latter stages of the all-ireland club championship a couple of times and it cost me in terms of work as i'm self employed. But it was my decision to miss that work i could have taken and i don't regret it. That attitude is gone now but i suppose it is a refllection of the times we live in.
Quote from: SimpleSimon on November 29, 2007, 11:24:45 PM
As a GPA member, and hopeful recipiant of the new grant I am happy enough. Had it not been agreed I would have happy enough as long as it didn't interfere with me playing for my county next year. By the way before I get an ear-full I voted against strike but would have followed the majority vote!
This is the first time i've commented on the issue and lads, let me tell you, you's live in a wonderland and I wish I could operate in the purest world you think exists! I get grief in work for leaving to attend training weekends (out of my annual leave), specialist appointments with injury, coming in injured. Even though I had a very bad injury involving 3 bone breaks and only missed 1 day. So tell me that hasn't interfered with promotion etc and that's fair enough but I have been quite bluntly told otherwise!
But I don't care about the money I play for the love of the game and who/what I get the opportunity to represent. But it will be nice to get the grant as an added bonus!
All well and good - but what's your position on those players that put as much in as you but will get less reward, less of a grant?
There's surely a legal challenge just around the corner on this one?
GPA don't give a shit about this !
Talk about cute hoorism at its finest. I don't know if there's any county conventions before 8th of December but a week leaves very little time for meetings of County Committees and Management Committees, especially in December when there's none scheduled before Conventions. Any rebellion to this deal will have to come from any Conventions held before it, or from CC Delegates voting with their conscience.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:35:30 PM
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
Stephenite - I feel sorry that in your sad mind you can't tolerate someone having a different opinion to yours...I have no connection to the GPA , I would get no benefit or anything out of it....Name any other issue that there has been a "referendum" on with every member voting???? Do you not trust the GAA officials to do what is right for the GAA???Why don't you demand that every club/county that pay any players/administrators be kicked out of the GAA??
I have done my share for building up the GAA both in a playing, coaching, team setup and administration role so I have as much right as anyone to have my view...
Sorry Dubs but there you go again - the clubs have been canvassed on three occassions as to their opinions on major issues effecting teh association - one was in in 1971 when 30 counties out of 32 voted to lift the ban on foreign sports - this was in contrast to 80% of congress delegates who previously voted to keep the ban -
the issue of rule 21 where clubs and members were once again balloted - the rule was deleted.
And finally rule 42 where congress voted against opening up Croke Park twice - when the debate was finally opened up to the grassroots a majority of us decided to open it.
So there is three examples where membershave been asked their opinion and funnily enough it did not actually reflect Croke Parks position in those votes.
But hey why let facts get in the way of a rant
This was in the Irish Independent on Tuesday November 20
"GAA grant talk raises equality concerns"
"As negotiations on the contentious player grant issue continued yesterday, women's gaelic players reiterated that they will seek a slice of the action if any grants scheme for elite GAA players is established.
The Irish Sports Council (ISC) resisted getting involved in the grant issue particularly because, as a government agency, they have a strong equality remit and could not serve one section of the GAA's playing population while ignoring its female equivalent.
But they have been dragged into negotiations in recent months as the Government and GAA desperately seek a way to break the impasse with the Gaelic Players' Association (GPA).
Comments from Ladies Gaelic Football President Geraldine Giles indicated that the equality issue will not go away.
"If it comes down to the Government giving grants you would have to look at fairness across the board and across all sectors and that just doesn't mean for ladies footballers but it would go for camogie players and everyone involved in the sport," Giles said....
....the Sports Council already supports ladies football by funding specific projects and even part-funds some of their fulltime staff, but Giles said the issue of player grants was a separate one.
"I wouldn't like to see pay-for-play ever, that would ruin the whole amateurism of the games," she said. "But, if a grant scheme for players is set up we would definitely seek parity of esteem."
If memory serves me right, Ladies Football were quick off the mark regarding the equality issue when the grants issue was first muted. I'd say it will be the same this time. If they, and the camogie people, kick up enough fuss over equality, could it delay the grants if they or a player went down the legal route to get their slice of the cake?
Quote from: believebelive on November 29, 2007, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:35:30 PM
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
Stephenite - I feel sorry that in your sad mind you can't tolerate someone having a different opinion to yours...I have no connection to the GPA , I would get no benefit or anything out of it....Name any other issue that there has been a "referendum" on with every member voting???? Do you not trust the GAA officials to do what is right for the GAA???Why don't you demand that every club/county that pay any players/administrators be kicked out of the GAA??
I have done my share for building up the GAA both in a playing, coaching, team setup and administration role so I have as much right as anyone to have my view...
Sorry Dubs but there you go again - the clubs have been canvassed on three occassions as to their opinions on major issues effecting teh association - one was in in 1971 when 30 counties out of 32 voted to lift the ban on foreign sports - this was in contrast to 80% of congress delegates who previously voted to keep the ban -
the issue of rule 21 where clubs and members were once again balloted - the rule was deleted.
And finally rule 42 where congress voted against opening up Croke Park twice - when the debate was finally opened up to the grassroots a majority of us decided to open it.
So there is three examples where membershave been asked their opinion and funnily enough it did not actually reflect Croke Parks position in those votes.
But hey why let facts get in the way of a rant
Believebelieve - so you are saying that in each of them votes every individual memeber of the GAA had a vote and the totals were combined???? That is different to being consulted.
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 29, 2007, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: stephenite on November 29, 2007, 10:35:30 PM
Seriously - is that the best you have - what you would expect from a soccer fan? Coming from you Dessie I though you'd be a bit more aggro. If there was (and indeed should be) a GAA 'referendum' with every member voting, you and your ilk would be sitting on your holes outside county grounds with pathetic little placards demanding money - the mandate for the type of change grubby little gits in the GPA want should only from come from the grass roots - we will than see how many of them support ye
Stephenite - I feel sorry that in your sad mind you can't tolerate someone having a different opinion to yours...I have no connection to the GPA , I would get no benefit or anything out of it....Name any other issue that there has been a "referendum" on with every member voting???? Do you not trust the GAA officials to do what is right for the GAA???
Why don't you demand that every club/county that pay any players/administrators be kicked out of the GAA??
I have done my share for building up the GAA both in a playing, coaching, team setup and administration role so I have as much right as anyone to have my view...
Stop being childish and either debate the issue or not - where have I pointed out that I cannot tolerate other opinions, it's a serious issue and if you're not prepared to discuss properly without putting words in peoples mouths and coming out with ludicrous suggestions like the ones above to support your argument then there's really not much point, is there?
Do you think that if all GAA members were asked to vote on this, the GPA would receive much support? You seem to intimate as much in your first post on this thread, We're supposed to be a democratic association. I have no problem with the players getting the grant money - I've said that repeatedly, I just don't think our amateur status should be compromised for the association as a whole. The other issue I have is the fact that this is a tiered grant which puts paid to any notion that Farrel, Cusack and McGeeney were looking after all inter county players, Joe Brolly was right all along, Geezer doesn't give a shite about the Mayo hurlers
So calling me Dessie and saying you thought I would be more aggro?? or you and your ilk or grubby little gits.....are you saying they are polite points?????
I would say it would get a reasonable level of support...yes...
How does the Govt giving Grant money to County players through the Sports Council affect the amateur status of the GAA???
Are the GAA paying the money? NO
Is it seperate funding? YES
Tiered grants were agreed within the GPA/GAA a long time ago....if you bothered to check up on that.....how does that possibly prove that they aren't interested in teh Mayo hurlers??? It actually puts in place procedures that the counties have to support all the panels rather than paying pure lipservice to the weaker sport in teh county....
Indiana - In some counties they don't have paid adminstrators and most of the times they used to be voluntary roles - why decide to go professional administrators??? Are volunteers not interested or have the numbers of volunteers dropped since people started getting paid???
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 30, 2007, 12:35:51 AM
So calling me Dessie and saying you thought I would be more aggro?? or you and your ilk or grubby little gits.....are you saying they are polite points?????
What on earth has politness got to do with anything, words are used to get a point across and convey emotion. They are all used to be untruthful, or conniving which is what you attempted. But let's not get bogged down in that,
Quote
I would say it would get a reasonable level of support...yes...
I disagree.
Quote
Tiered grants were agreed within the GPA/GAA a long time ago....if you bothered to check up on that.....how does that possibly prove that they aren't interested in teh Mayo hurlers??? It actually puts in place procedures that the counties have to support all the panels rather than paying pure lipservice to the weaker sport in teh county....
I am aware that the tiered grants were mooted a long time ago - but now that this has been put in place in such an elitist fashion I believe that the inquity in this scenario is unworkable - a Mayo hurler puts in just as much effort as the Kerry footballer, why does he receive less? Is he less of an elite sportsman. It's Government money, there has to be a more equitbale way of distributing it.
I'm no lawyer (maybe BC1 can comment) but I'd be amazed if this was challenged and the outcome wasn't in favour of all players getting the same amount regardless of the teams progress
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 30, 2007, 12:35:51 AM
Indiana - In some counties they don't have paid adminstrators and most of the times they used to be voluntary roles - why decide to go professional administrators??? Are volunteers not interested or have the numbers of volunteers dropped since people started getting paid???
I'd doubt all counties don't have paid administrators because funding is provided for them from various sources.
But to answer your question, given the current size of the association and the logistics involved, is it really fair to have one man - generally your county secretary - doing a 40 hour week working 9-5 and then having to come home and do another 40 hour week on the behalf of the association? Let's be honest, the way the world is now planning, paperwork, support for other officers on the board, support for clubs etc etc, of course there's a need for a full time administrator in each county - personally I doubt if a flexible 40 hours working week would cover it now.
Quote from: Red Hand Luke on November 29, 2007, 06:25:36 PM
This is my first time posting on the Board, however I have viewed the comments made on it for years.
I feel strongly about the existence of the GPA and the announcement made today over player grants.
The sentiments coming from vast majority of posters on the discussion board is that they are opposed to the GPA and what they stand for.
Today President of the GAA, supported by officials signed up (in principle) to a deal that will ultimately led to semi-professionalism for the association, in simple terms our leaders have caved in and GPA has won.
The indications coming from Croke Park over the last 8 months made it clear that the association would not be distributing any money from the Sports Council to players, however today it was agreed that a National Committee comprising of GAA volunteers and "GPA officials?" would administer the grants and they would be supported committees at County Board level.
This issue needs to be debated and decided by the Grassroots, this decision has far reaching consequences and is of more importance (to the internal association) than the rule 21 or rule 42 debates.
Central Council will meet on Saturday 8th December and the President has stated that the purpose of this meeting is to "ratify" the GPA deal............
Central Council is a democratically elected body and doesn't have to ratify anything......call your central council delegate and ask him is he going to vote the GAA out of existence next Saturday......Tell your central council delegate that this month will be election time for him and he should vote against semi-professionalism as the grass roots GAA volunteers in the county put him on the Central Council, they can also take him off it.....!
If you are a GAA member, then ask you Club Secretary to write the Director General and CC your county and provincial secretary, tell the top table at Croke Park that we the Grassroots GAA volunteers say no to this deal. County Conventions will be run across the county in December go to your convention ask to speak under AOB and raise the issue.
Now is the time, we need galvanise the grassroots, let our voice be heard, this is a battle for the future of GAA, we need to take back control of our association and stop the Dublin media and a group of self interested retired players setting the agenda of the largest Sporting, Cultural, Voluntary and Community Organisation in the world....
Tell your Central Council Delegate before next Saturday:
• No to pay for play
• No to players grants being administrated by the GAA
• No to recognition of the GPA
• Yes to Player Welfare
• Yes to Amateurism
• Yes to Grassroots recognition and support
Don't let Dessie Farrell and Co dismantle our Club network, sneak professionalism in through the back door and insult generations of grassroots GAA volunteers who built our association.
???
Red Hand Luke
You forget that central council have already endorsed this principle when they accepted original propsal (think some months back?). I don't think Nickey & Co would support this scheme if they felt it was going to damage our games.
I for one thought it was unfair that professional sports people were given tax breaks and our top players were'nt. Im a club member and this issue is very rarely raised ...truth is most club people don't really care but anyone I've spoken to woouldn't seem to begrudge players these grants
Not so sure all the grassroots see it the way you do....anyway I would welcome a referendum on this but doubt that will happen.
Quote
Are the GAA paying the money? NO
[\quote]
You don't know that yet, do you? The statement released doesn't definitively say who will be paying the money. We know where the money is coming from but who is paying it out?
Lads might be an idea to wait and see the exact workings before falling out over it :)
Quote from: stephenite on November 30, 2007, 12:59:55 AM
Quote
Are the GAA paying the money? NO
[\quote]
You don't know that yet, do you? The statement released doesn't definitively say who will be paying the money. We know where the money is coming from but who is paying it out?
Conditions
1. Funding for the above schemes will be provided annually through the Irish Sports Council to the GAA and the criteria and arrangements for their disbursement will be agreed by the GAA, the GPA and the ISC.
2. These schemes will be additional to, and will not negatively impact on, existing funding or any future funding, provided by the Government to the GAA through the ISC.
3. All parties recognise the amateur status of the GAA and nothing in this agreement will undermine that amateur status.
Now surely even you can understand the above comments??????
Quote from: stephenite on November 30, 2007, 12:46:12 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 30, 2007, 12:35:51 AM
So calling me Dessie and saying you thought I would be more aggro?? or you and your ilk or grubby little gits.....are you saying they are polite points?????
What on earth has politness got to do with anything, words are used to get a point across and convey emotion. They are all used to be untruthful, or conniving which is what you attempted. But let's not get bogged down in that,
Quote
I would say it would get a reasonable level of support...yes...
I disagree.
Quote
Tiered grants were agreed within the GPA/GAA a long time ago....if you bothered to check up on that.....how does that possibly prove that they aren't interested in teh Mayo hurlers??? It actually puts in place procedures that the counties have to support all the panels rather than paying pure lipservice to the weaker sport in teh county....
I am aware that the tiered grants were mooted a long time ago - but now that this has been put in place in such an elitist fashion I believe that the inquity in this scenario is unworkable - a Mayo hurler puts in just as much effort as the Kerry footballer, why does he receive less? Is he less of an elite sportsman. It's Government money, there has to be a more equitbale way of distributing it.
I'm no lawyer (maybe BC1 can comment) but I'd be amazed if this was challenged and the outcome wasn't in favour of all players getting the same amount regardless of the teams progress
The GAA/GPA agreed tiered grants - so who can sue to change them???? They have agreed a tiered hurling/football championship as it is....
At athletic/boxing and all other areas grants are given they are not given on a same amount to every individual basis.
So is funding for all counties identical? Do the Mayo hurlers get the same funding from teh GAA as the Kerry footballers???
Are you blind or just winding me up? How the monies are paid over has yet to be decided
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 30, 2007, 01:11:01 AM
The GAA/GPA agreed tiered grants - so who can sue to change them????
Are you seriously suggesting that the GPA represent 100% of every inter county panel involved? This is patently untrue - so any non members of the GPA but members of the GAA could sue, I have no idea if they would have a viable case as I've pointed out - I suspect they might but I could be wrong
Quote from: give her dixie on November 29, 2007, 11:17:14 PM
The slippery slope has well and truely started.
Dessie and co. thanks for ruining our beautiful game.
Such ballix, Club football is the real GAA anyway, county football is a luxury, i'll survive quite easily without it. ::)
here here stephenite im with you on this one. tell dessie...sorry dubsforsam...what you think of him.
Quote from: stephenite on November 30, 2007, 01:13:02 AM
Are you blind or just winding me up? How the monies are paid over has yet to be decided
Was there not a formal proposal put forward by the GAA/GPA using the method of tiered payments?
The only issue was around who would distribute the money and that has now been solved.
Looks like a done deal. Thought Nicky Brennan would have been stronger.
Suddenly the GPA members that were quick to run to the papers with their experiences of hard done by have gone to ground. Hope its not guilt. The GPA PR machine dubsforsam1 keeps on rolling.
Are you satisfied with what you have gained ?
Since you seem to have an inside track to the GPA ::), is this the end of it ? Are there any more demands that havent been met by this agreement?
Dubsforum you are wrong on the paid administrators- funding in most cases is provided for these positions so that counties can run their affairs correctly and that has been the case for a while.
I can't see how you get a grant and the amateur status is unaffected. That simply depends on your interpretation. Our international athletes are in most cases professional in other words they don't have a day job. The grant they receive is supposed to cover them. Now how can a GAA pl;ayer receive the same grant and be termed an amateur? Oh because the Irish Sports Council gives them the money? that is splitting hairs in fairness. You can't receive money for something ans still be termed an amateur. Who are they trying to kid?
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 30, 2007, 12:27:53 AM
Believebelieve - so you are saying that in each of them votes every individual memeber of the GAA had a vote and the totals were combined???? That is different to being consulted.
No im not saying that and you know it - when did i say their totals were combined- think this through for a second - Cork have around five times (conservative estimation) the clubs that Leitrim have so by your logic they should have five times the say when it comes to congress - but that is not how it works and you know that.
The three incidences that i spoke about were opened to the grassroots members which meant that each club were instructed to debate the issue and come up with an opinion that reflected the majority of the members who attended their meeting - as a result at county board meetings club delegates went to the meeting and voted, not how they felt individually, but the way in which their club had voted - in turn this meant that those county delegates going to congress voted not how they wanted but how the majority of clubs in their county wanted. - its called democracy and every time the grass roots have been asked their opinion on major issues it has differed with the opinion of Croke Park Chiefs - Now, do you acept that!!!
Was watching the news last night & some sports minister was on & he confused me slightly. He said the players arent getting this for nothing, that they will have to train harder & put something back into the community as well i.e coaching etc.
Now, I thought they were already doing so much that they needed reimbursed for their efforts - but surely this means they will have to do even more. ???
What about their jobs etc?
Can anyone shed any light on this?
Dear All,
After yesterday's announcement about pay-for-play in the GAA, a group of concerned GAA people are coming together as follows:
Wednesday 5 December
7.00pm
The Elk
(between Castledawson and Toome on the main Belfast/Derry road)
The aim is to hold an open meeting to see what the grass-roots view is about this absolutely seismic shift in GAA policy.
If you're concerned about this whole issue, please come along.
And it would be useful if you could circulate the content of this email to like-minded people.
Peter canavan said on the Last Word last night that "it was a good start". So what's the finish then and how soon before the next strike threat comes?? It must be great to be in minority that voted against the strike knowing that the majority vote for a strike will get you money! ;)
Quote from: SimpleSimon on November 29, 2007, 11:24:45 PM
As a GPA member, and hopeful recipiant of the new grant I am happy enough. Had it not been agreed I would have happy enough as long as it didn't interfere with me playing for my county next year. By the way before I get an ear-full I voted against strike but would have followed the majority vote!
This is the first time i've commented on the issue and lads, let me tell you, you's live in a wonderland and I wish I could operate in the purest world you think exists! I get grief in work for leaving to attend training weekends (out of my annual leave), specialist appointments with injury, coming in injured. Even though I had a very bad injury involving 3 bone breaks and only missed 1 day. So tell me that hasn't interfered with promotion etc and that's fair enough but I have been quite bluntly told otherwise!
But I don't care about the money I play for the love of the game and who/what I get the opportunity to represent. But it will be nice to get the grant as an added bonus!
Simplesimon, I'm sure happy enough at getting the grant, any of us would be happy at being handed a couple of thousand for doing the things we love, or profess to love. It really is irrelevant for me that you voted against the strike, you were prepared to walk out on your county (my county) because of your greed. I don't understand when you say you've gotten grief at work for taking your annual leave?
I have no sympathy with you when you say it's interfered with your promotion prospects, no one has ever made you play GAA. That is your choice. How many GAA players are in the jobs they are in and have gained promotions etc because they are intercounty players?
I assume you're on the Armagh panel - in the last number of years how would you say you've been treated, have you ever wanted for anything? I would seriously doubt it. We will be very lucky if you and the people like you have not destroyed our organisation, as an Armagh man I have no intention of ever showing my support for the likes of you again. I don't know who you are or care but I'd be happier if you took yourself back to your work and gained that promotion and thank God Armagh weren't relying on the likes of you in the times when the players would be lucky if they'd a bus!
One last question, had you any trouble getting time off to go on the team holidays?
Anybody who is concerned about the pay for play capitulation:
There's a meeting of GAA people planned for the Elk, Toomebridge, next Wednesday night at 7.00pm
Let's all get there and start some resistance to this sell-out .
POG thats one hell of a rebuff and from the heart, you have my vote on this
Quote from: Turfsmoke on December 01, 2007, 12:07:36 AM
Anybody who is concerned about the pay for play capitulation:
There's a meeting of GAA people planned for the Elk, Toomebridge, next Wednesday night at 7.00pm
Let's all get there and start some resistance to this sell-out .
Could you not have found somewhere more out of the way for 30 of the 32 Counties -that's if you are for real at all.
QuoteDarcy blasts grants deal
01 December 2007
Tyrone chairman Pat Darcy has hit out at the grants scheme agreed for inter-county players between the GPA, the GAA, the Government and the Irish Sports Council earlier this week.
Darcy, who had been a vehement opponent of the scheme, believes the Government should have given the money to the St. Vincent de Paul Society for the benefit of needy families in the run-up to Christmas rather than to GAA players.
"I wouldn't be in favour of taking money from the Government to look after the welfare of our players," he said.
"I'm sure their needs could have been met through the existing arrangements within each county.
"If the Government has spare cash, it should be given to poor families struggling to afford toys for Christmas."
Fair play Pat - if you need a vote, give me a shout. Well said Pat.
I'm sure Pat will be writing a sizable cheque himself for the needy.
The money he gave mickey harte and peter canavan to take one year sabbaticals from work could've gone to more deserving places so...
Expenses for loss of wages.
Surely you dont deny any of the individual named expenses to cover loss of earnings ?
Wait.........no sorry im wrong...............that was never part of the GPA manifesto
Certaily no, but its fairly transparent hypocricy to deny everyone else bar peter and mickey a fraction of the same courtesy
they were working for the county board following the Tyrones first ever All ireland win, when the county was on a high. They were promoting the game. They visited every school in the county with Sam MAguire.
Should they have not promoted Gaelic Games?
Do you think the entire panel should have done the same?
By denying everyone else a fraction of the same courtesy are you annoyed that they missed out on a few pound?
Read your own post back. you answered yourself for me
3 questions posed, please answer, im interested in your response
Quote from: Bensars on December 01, 2007, 03:55:35 PM
Should they have not promoted Gaelic Games?
That is an employment issue for the Tyrone county board. How are they coping now witout these two full time officers?
Quote from: Bensars on December 01, 2007, 03:55:35 PM
Do you think the entire panel should have done the same?
Why would i have an opinion on that? again, an employment issue for the Tyrone county board
Quote from: Bensars on December 01, 2007, 03:55:35 PM
By denying everyone else a fraction of the same courtesy are you annoyed that they missed out on a few pound?
i have no idea what that question is
There's no poit sniping at the Tyrone County board about this issue - Pat Darcy has stood up and stated his opinion - just because you don't like the fact Marsden that people are entitled to oppose the GPA and all the negatives that they stand for, doesn't mean you can slate him or others off ! And to answer you're question, YES, Pat is a very charitable man who will donate to St. Vincent De Paul at Christmas -
And of course the GPA will do likewise ! ;D :D ;) ;D :D ;)
Orangeman - there are some fairly articulate and pursuasive posters on this board arguing for and against the gpa / gaa agreement but you are not one of them. You consistently ignore the actual route of any debate (probably because you can't follow it) ands just throw up the same tired post with the words rearranged.
Have you actually got a point to make, constructively, on Pat Darcy's statement or any of the questions which other posters have raised out of his statement?
There you again Kieran- fire insults towards those who oppose the idea of paying players ( which is by far and away the majority of the so called grass roots ) - is that the worst you can comeup with ? That I'm not articulate enough to take part in your defence of the GPA and theirs ( and yours ) fascist stance - it doesn't need big words to describe the hierarchy of the GPA or their methods ! Just ecause you've got a degree in something or other doesn't mean that you're more qualified to take part in the debate - all it means is that you THINK you're more qualified -
Anyway, what does articulate mean ?? :D :D ;D ;D ;) ;)
I'm not saying you are inarticulate, i'm saying you are dense.
I think you did use the word inarticulate - now dense as far as I am aware has a few meanings ? Could you perhaps be more specific ?
Or do you really want to avoid the essential of the debate ? Should we not return to the debate and avoid further insults from the GPA representative in Armagh ?
Just because the grass cutter got £ 1700 last year in your club means exactly what in your mind ? That he's probably an unqualified person who hasn't gone through university, hasn't had formal training and is only qualified to cut grass and probably doesn't even have a licence for the ride on lawn mower ?
Now I see where you're coming from.
Are you for real?
How exactly is this grant money going to be doled out?
Does every single person on a county panel get an equal amount? If not why not?
Does a person have to be a member of the GPA to get a slice of the pie?
Dmarsden/ kieran you are one eejit. by resorting to calling orangeman dense just shows how lacking in sense you actually are. i have read orangemans comments and can find nothing wrong with what he says.
i have said it once and will say it again, pay for play is not feasible nor is it acceptable to the wider gaa membership. it is people like dessie and dmarsden that are leading not only our geat sporting organisation but our country in general down the tubes. the greed culture is ruining an association which relies on the exact opposite. as one of the wise old heads in the club remarked recently, "people will do nothing for nothing these days" - to me this is exactly the problem, a problem that needs to be gradually eradicated by promoting the volunteer ethos and all that is good about the gaa.
Quote from: behind the wire on December 02, 2007, 07:38:42 PM
i have said it once and will say it again, pay for play is not feasible nor is it acceptable to the wider gaa membership. it is people like dessie and dmarsden that are leading not only our geat sporting organisation but our country in general down the tubes. the greed culture is ruining an association which relies on the exact opposite. as one of the wise old heads in the club remarked recently, "people will do nothing for nothing these days" - to me this is exactly the problem, a problem that needs to be gradually eradicated by promoting the volunteer ethos and all that is good about the gaa.
Here is the problem with trying to have reasoned debate here. Noone believes PFP isfeasible or acceptable. any dissenters? then we're all agreed.
why then does some poster or other throw this up like a revelation every day of the week on this board and thik he's breaking new ground. noone wants pay for play. move on and make a positive contribution.
OK, I'll accept the GPA's protestations that PFP is not something they envisage as being part of their plans.
One question DMarsden - if the government (for whatever reason) pull the plug on these grants in the future, will the GPA guarantee that they will not look to the GAA to make up the shortfall?
QuoteOK, I'll accept the GPA's protestations that PFP is not something they envisage as being part of their plans.
One question DMarsden - if the government (for whatever reason) pull the plug on these grants in the future, will the GPA guarantee that they will not look to the GAA to make up the shortfall?
If that happens they probably will look to the GAA to make up that short-fall, but so what. They won't get it, if as I suspect the GAA hierarchy have made it clear that if it happens they won't pay. Most of the anti-GPA posters seem to base many of their objections on the belief that this is the thin edge of the wedge. I just can't see where you are getting this from, what the GPA want and what they can realistically get are two different things.
correct tram.
just a thought, would it be possible to ban those players who take the grant as they are no longer amateurs? not saying i would support doing so but would it be possible?
Quote from: behind the wire on December 03, 2007, 09:17:11 AM
correct tram.
just a thought, would it be possible to ban those players who take the grant as they are no longer amateurs? not saying i would support doing so but would it be possible?
Well if they banned every club player, manager etc who takes money also - in fact they should come down even harder on them as there is no provision for doing that...
cant argue with you there dubsforsam1, that is also 100% correct. managers should be paid only expenses. but i dont think there are too many club players being paid.
Hypocrisy does exist - but where do we draw the line - managers are paid unoficially by business men outside of clubs / county structures - should players get the same ?
Quote from: tram on December 03, 2007, 12:55:01 AM
I'm very reluctant to, as they say on Slugger O'Toole, play the man and not the ball but as the ad says, there's always one.
Now here's a quote on the matter from one poster...
QuoteHere is the problem with trying to have reasoned debate here.
And here are some quotes from the same contributor on a different thread, but on the same matter...
Quotetypical. not a fact or quote anywhere to be seen.
The George bush neocons could do no better. WOE WOE WOE!!!
QuoteGovernment funded grants administered by the sports council, which will put a small hole in the expenses intercounty players incur over the course of a year is progress. anyone who opposes it on the basis that the big bad wolf is going come in the night is the modern day version of the catholic church of the 60s
Quotewe'll leave it that lads. the arguments against are so immature and have been answered so many times that there really is not point
Quoteblah blah blah
Now either this poster is a gimmick, or someone who fails to practice what they preach and possibly too blind to see it. Until the poster behind the username starts to live up to what he or she claims they want by providing valid, measured arguments to back up their POV, they aren't worth bothering with for my time anyway and not worth bothering responding to.
Quote the entire context or don't qute at all. That's lazy, manipulative quoting to meet your own point of view.
Despite your fervrent belief to the contrary, your time ain't that necessary.
Quote from: behind the wire on December 03, 2007, 09:17:11 AM
correct tram.
just a thought, would it be possible to ban those players who take the grant as they are no longer amateurs? not saying i would support doing so but would it be possible?
Who says they are no longer amateurs?
Quote from: orangeman on December 03, 2007, 10:44:30 AM
Hypocrisy does exist - but where do we draw the line - managers are paid unoficially by business men outside of clubs / county structures - should players get the same ?
i agree totally with this but (and it's a big but) this grant is being made official by the gaa and in doing so they are leaving themselves wide open,there are opening the flood gates
DMarsden, I can see that some of the points you make are valid but why do you have such strong feelings supporting the GPA?
What affiliation have you with the group?
I can see why som many posters are worried it harming the GAA, but am suprised at someone supporting the GPA so staunchly
i say that they are no longer amateurs. anyone who takes to play sport is not an amateur sportsman. that is the bottom line. i am sorry to see this happen.
im sure other members of the board will support me on this.
just for the record i believe that players and managers should not be paid. full time administrators/ physios have the right to be paid but not players or managers. that is my stance.
Quote from: DMarsden on December 03, 2007, 11:05:44 AM
those of you who know any IC players personally, and i'm sure that is most of you, cannot tell me hand on heart that they are the greedy selfish bogie men determined to ruin the GAA that they are depicted here? That is why i feel obliged to point out the lack of balance on this ste with respect to the GPA.
Of course not, and I've said from the start that I am generally in favour of the grants, it's the best of a bad lot of other options - my only concern is the GAA paying this money on behalf of the Government and the precedent this sets.
I'm not really sure how the GPA Can be answerable for that, nor am i sure that its such a major issue. Certainly the demonisation of the playing body can't be the solution?
Fair enough DMarsden but by being such a staunch supporter of the GPA it may seem to many that you have a vested interest in them.
BTW, I have a major issue with the players voting to strike unless they got paid/grants - that is a disgrace
A lot of people simply don't like the GPA. A lot of their members since the announcement have clearly stated this is only the beginning. A lot of grassroots members are fearing this is the beginning of the end of the Association as we know it and does appear to be the case -because once the door is open it stays open. If the Government turns around in 3 years and says we aren't giving grants anymore -what happens then? The Gaa will expected to pick up the slack.
The other thing is that the weaker counties re going to get a lot less than the elite for doing largely the same amount of training. So they even have elitism within their own organisation.
A lot of us see and know what a lot of the top inter county players get- and some of us believe asking for grants on top of that is a bit rich quite frankly. If you've a problem with that well that's your opinion. A lot of us don't share your views. I'd have more time for the proposals if it did something for the weaker counties who don't get any of the perks the top county players get. But they don't.
I'm not tha stunch a supporter nor have i any vested interest but it's difficult to sit by and watch vilification based on misrpresented facts.
In terms of the vote, each member has to answer for himself as not everyone voted or voted for the motion. The most consistent argument i've heard is that player's representatives had been messed about, stalled and belittled so much in negotiations and they had no bargaining tools to move the GAA forward. in short, it was a tactical vote.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 03, 2007, 11:28:26 AM
If the Government turns around in 3 years and says we aren't giving grants anymore -what happens then? The Gaa will expected to pick up the slack.
As this has been asked and answered many times on this board in the last week alone, i'm losing the will to live. There is no provision for the GAA to pay this money. there is no demand among the GPA membership for this to happen should the government default (which i believe they won't).
Quote from: INDIANA on December 03, 2007, 11:28:26 AM
The other thing is that the weaker counties re going to get a lot less than the elite for doing largely the same amount of training. So they even have elitism within their own organisation.
A lot of us see and know what a lot of the top inter county players get- and some of us believe asking for grants on top of that is a bit rich quite frankly. If you've a problem with that well that's your opinion. A lot of us don't share your views. I'd have more time for the proposals if it did something for the weaker counties who don't get any of the perks the top county players get. But they don't.
This is the sort of lazy stuff that i ruining the quality of this forum. Grant will vary but there's be no more than E800 between first round losers and all ireland finalists.
These "top county players" you speak of are a tiny minority in my experience. the grant is as much about including the small man than any other welfare issue that the GPA has successfully argued for.
Quote from: DMarsden on December 03, 2007, 11:12:39 AM
Hardy - The GAA elevated the IC players to elite status, both directly and indirectly. Indirectly, every member has done this through the expectation of higher standards of fitness, skills, success, professional attitudes, intrusion into private lives, etc. Directly, the GAA have created an elite status by making provision in law for minimum travel expenses, training gear and other welfare considerations for intercounty players only and by subjecting only intercounty players and noone else in our assocition to Olympic standard drug testing.
Well you obviously have a lot less experience than me then so - because they certainly are not a tiny minority that is 100% of afact. The players from the top 10-12 counties all do very well out of the Gaa-it's the others who don't and quite often don't even receive the basics from their own county boards. So instead of redressing the balance this merely increases it.
Look if you want to believe that when the Government stop paying this (and they will) that will be the end of it-please feel free to do so because the rest of us are not that naive. I was in Australia when this hapenned to AFL and this is going the same route. IN fact it's an absolute carbon copy.
You canot base an argument around conjecture and scare stories
i prefer to call it a simple realistic appraisal of the situation. I'm not a weatherman but i can tell when it's raining. When you've the likes of peter canavan speakig on the radio on friday evening saying it's good for starters you know what's coming down the track.
Call it what you like. it has only happened in your mind and you are introducing it as though it were fact in our reality. stop peddling bedtime stories as fact and it'd be a reasonable start at sensibly addressing any concerns you may have.
everyone knows when its raining but you're predicting the weather before it happens. it could be a great day tomorrow.
DMarsden - have to ask you one question about this quote of yours.
"This is the sort of lazy stuff that i ruining the quality of this forum. Grant will vary but there's be no more than E800 between first round losers and all ireland finalists."
Where have you seen this figure written down in black and white? And i don't mean some quote from dessie in the sunday papers. Actual figures in an official written document wud be nice? don't think you will find it somehow. That is the problem with this whole things - somebody throws out a line to a newspaper and everyone takes it as the truth - the same shite happenned when everyone believed the GAA wud not administer the grants.
To me the problem with the whole thing is that if there really was such a little difference between first round losers and All Ireland finalists then the actual figures would have been released, at the moment a lot of people are annoyed that there is a precieved two tier system, if this is truly not the case why not just release the figures, is it bperhaps because they have not been figured out yet?. IMO the real reason that there is two tiers is becasue the sports council insisted on some sort of measured performance.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 03, 2007, 12:35:41 PM
Well you obviously have a lot less experience than me then so - because they certainly are not a tiny minority that is 100% of afact. The players from the top 10-12 counties all do very well out of the Gaa-it's the others who don't and quite often don't even receive the basics from their own county boards. So instead of redressing the balance this merely increases it.
Look if you want to believe that when the Government stop paying this (and they will) that will be the end of it-please feel free to do so because the rest of us are not that naive. I was in Australia when this hapenned to AFL and this is going the same route. IN fact it's an absolute carbon copy.
Indiana - The initial proposal was that only the All-star nominees received the grant but the GPA refused to accept that - (terribly elitist of them I know).....
The top 12 counties who get maybe 800 Euro more isn't that much really...weaker counties like Fermanagh/Sligo etc have got this far already....
In fact the elitist appraoch exists in the GAA already with regards to Qualifiers, Rackard/Nicky Ring Cups....wiht regards to funding for hurling in most counties etc...(Any county that doesn't finance hurling/football equally in their county is taking an elitist approach)
Have you any proof that -
A - The Govt will stop paying?
B - That the GAA will start paying?????
No you don't so quite scaremongering....
Believebelieve - Did you read the original GAA/GPA proposal that was put forward for the grants first time round?????? That will give you a reasonably good idea as to what the payouts will be....
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on December 03, 2007, 07:12:10 PM
Believebelieve - Did you read the original GAA/GPA proposal that was put forward for the grants first time round?????? That will give you a reasonably good idea as to what the payouts will be....
Yes I did - i know it inside out actually and it is wildly different to this present cobbled together effort - which is why I am asking again if the GPA know that there will only be 800 euro between the All ireland finalists and first round losers then why do they not just release the figures that say this? The answer is that these figures have not been worked out yet!!!!!
And to be pedantic if I were using the original proposal that the GAA/GPA agreed to the the difference between All Ireland finalist and first round loser is 1150 - I repeat - there are not figures concerning this document officially released yet - so where do you get this 800 euro from - and please don't sat Dessie told one of the papers and they printed it!!!!!
Folks, time to stop discussing the minor details like the difference in the amount of the grant from one level to another etc.
This is all acting as a smokescreen to the reality that pay for play is on our doorstep. Getting caught up in the various levels of pay or whether the women should be entitled to money or not etc neatly draws attention and discussion away (from a GPA perspective)from the single key issue - we now have pay for play.
Are we all going to sit back and watch.
Your right blast, im totally against these grants because they are pay for play. But it annoys me when people start quoting figures as facts when they have nothing to back them up. And the difference in grant is important esp given that the GPA deny that they are discriminating against some of their own members.
But I agree with your point. Even if everyone was getting the same I would still be against this shambles for a whole host of reasons.
Quote from: blast05 on December 04, 2007, 09:37:59 AM
Are we all going to sit back and watch.
Time for some old fashioned lynching I say, oh it's been a while.
Everyone round to their nearest Inter county players house with flame torches and pitch forks :P
Seriously though, Stephenite it should be everybody down to their club AGM to get the grassroots mandate to oppose this at the special congress.
Quote from: Hardy on December 04, 2007, 10:19:18 AM
Seriously though, Stephenite it should be everybody down to their club AGM to get the grassroots mandate to oppose this at the special congress.
Or they could start by getting their own house in order in respect of managers?
Quote from: Hardy on December 04, 2007, 10:19:18 AM
Seriously though, Stephenite it should be everybody down to their club AGM to get the grassroots mandate to oppose this at the special congress.
Couldn't agree more Hardy - the line from Blast just somehow reminded me of the Simpsons when they all go round to shut down the Burlesque Club that Bart worked in part time.
It's up to everyone to lobby their club officials, and ensure that the the clubs County Board delegate goes to the Board meeting with instructions that the County Board are to vote against this at Special Congress.
What odds on some f**ker ruling whatever motion is tabled out of order? I've a suspicion that this deal has already been done.
Quote from: passedit on December 04, 2007, 10:23:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on December 04, 2007, 10:19:18 AM
Seriously though, Stephenite it should be everybody down to their club AGM to get the grassroots mandate to oppose this at the special congress.
Or they could start by getting their own house in order in respect of managers?
I hear what you're sying Passedit - but find me some conclusive proof that a manager has been paid and I'll listen. Pissing against the wind otherwise I'm afraid.
Agreed Passedit - the whole manager payments issue is a cloud over the case against payments for players and weakens the moral argument of club members who might be turning a blind eye to one while opposing the other. (I think there's a case to be debated for paying managers, but that's beside the point - at present it's against the rules, as I understand them). I also see the merit in your suggestion that managers be subject to the same qualification rules as players.
However, the "suspicion" (it's not a fact until someone has proven it) that (some) managers are receiving unofficial payments in contravention of the existing rules is not an argument for changing the rules to pay players officially. It would be equivalent to arguing that the rules on donations to politicians should be changed to allow all TDs to receive personal contributions, just because Bertie got a dig out from his friends.
Quote from: stephenite on December 04, 2007, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: passedit on December 04, 2007, 10:23:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on December 04, 2007, 10:19:18 AM
Seriously though, Stephenite it should be everybody down to their club AGM to get the grassroots mandate to oppose this at the special congress.
Or they could start by getting their own house in order in respect of managers?
I hear what you're sying Passedit - but find me some conclusive proof that a manager has been paid and I'll listen. Pissing against the wind otherwise I'm afraid.
We all know it's happening Stephenite, just because we can't prove it is doesn't mean it can't be stopped. As everyone's heading to their club agms in high dudgeon, why not ask why your club (everyone not just Stephenite) isn't appointing senior team managers from within their own membership? What's happening now is an inevitable consequence of looking the other way with regard to paying managers.
Quote from: passedit on December 04, 2007, 10:37:14 AM
We all know it's happening Stephenite, just because we can't prove it is doesn't mean it can't be stopped. As everyone's heading to their club agms in high dudgeon, why not ask why your club (everyone not just Stephenite) isn't appointing senior team managers from within their own membership? What's happening now is an inevitable consequence of looking the other way with regard to paying managers.
I just think we have to try and be realistic about what can be achieved in the face of last weeks announcement, you make some very good points and your arguments have merit, but I feel they are unworkable in regards to getting congress to agree to this.
If enough of a din is made by the members on this issue, than I think we could possibly swing a special congress (or I'm very naive) but I don't think members can take on the under the counter payments made to managers and demand change without some hard proof.
Quote from: believebelive on December 03, 2007, 07:20:56 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on December 03, 2007, 07:12:10 PM
Believebelieve - Did you read the original GAA/GPA proposal that was put forward for the grants first time round?????? That will give you a reasonably good idea as to what the payouts will be....
Yes I did - i know it inside out actually and it is wildly different to this present cobbled together effort - which is why I am asking again if the GPA know that there will only be 800 euro between the All ireland finalists and first round losers then why do they not just release the figures that say this? The answer is that these figures have not been worked out yet!!!!!
And to be pedantic if I were using the original proposal that the GAA/GPA agreed to the the difference between All Ireland finalist and first round loser is 1150 - I repeat - there are not figures concerning this document officially released yet - so where do you get this 800 euro from - and please don't sat Dessie told one of the papers and they printed it!!!!!
Believebelieve - If you have ever been involved with a project or discussions about something like this you should know that the first part is to get agreement on the principal that there will be funding, then what the funding is and THE FINAL STEP IS THE INDIVIDUAL BREAKDOWN OF THAT FUNDING!!!!! For example the company I work in are announcing a brand new bonus scheme for all sales staff in the UK tomorrow - Can we give individual figures yet - Not a f*cking chance......
The 1150 figure was based on a 5m pot -
As you say the individual figures haven't been released so why don't you get off your high horse and wait to see what is proposed
Jesus Dubs I'm getting a sore head - I said that i would wait until the figures are out to past final judgement on this. The whole premise of the GPA is that it recognises the Mayo hurler as much as the Kerry footballer. I am just saying that I am surprised they have agreed a document that sets up two distinct teirs and that as of yet does not have assurances (in written form) that weaker counties will not receive proportionately less money when compared to those in the upper tier.