Quote-For teams in Div 3 and 4 of the football league at the end of the 2021 league season (i.e. AFTER promotion/Relegation process), that DO NOT reach their respective Provincial Finals
-Preliminary Round(s) to be organized if more than 16 eligible teams
-If NY are allowed participate, they will be drawn against an eligible team defeated in either Round 1 or a Quarter final of the Provincial Championships – game date May 16 (this may be a preliminary Qualifier if more than 16 teams eligible).
-Recommended that Provincial Champions from the previous year – regardless of whether they are Division 3 or 4 Counties or not – are automatically included in Sam Maguire Qualifiers even if they do not qualify for their provincial final in 2021
-Recommended if NY are involved, their game(s) will be in Ireland.
-Rounds – Prelim Round (if required), Round 1, Quarter Finals, Semi Finals and Final
-Semi Finals on Sunday June 6th – Croke Park double header; will be only significant games in the calendar on that date
-Final to be a curtain raiser to the All Ireland Hurling Semi Final on June 26/27
Am I correct as saying Cavan will be involved if they don't make the Ulster final?
One of the lads over on Cavan page put this up, apparently it is on the GAA Website...
"Recommended that Provincial Champions from the previous year – regardless of whether they are Division 3 or 4 Counties or not – are automatically included in Sam Maguire Qualifiers even if they do not qualify for their provincial final in 2021"
Even if that is not the case, looking at the text of your post it would appear that Cavan could also avoid the 2nd Tier by getting promoted from Div 3, which for me is a priority for them anyway.
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 11:18:07 AM
One of the lads over on Cavan page put this up, apparently it is on the GAA Website...
"Recommended that Provincial Champions from the previous year – regardless of whether they are Division 3 or 4 Counties or not – are automatically included in Sam Maguire Qualifiers even if they do not qualify for their provincial final in 2021"
Even if that is not the case, looking at the text of your post it would appear that Cavan could also avoid the 2nd Tier by getting promoted from Div 3, which for me is a priority for them anyway.
I actually see it in my original post anyway that Cavan and Tipp will be in the proper Championship.
So if Cavan and/or Tipp fail to get promotion, a team that goes up from Div 3 will miss out?
I'm not really for this competition but will be interesting to see how it goes and what they buy in will be like.
Derry would look like the overwhelming favourites from here if they get their main men all committing but also depends on who goes down from Div 2.
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 11:23:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 11:18:07 AM
One of the lads over on Cavan page put this up, apparently it is on the GAA Website...
"Recommended that Provincial Champions from the previous year – regardless of whether they are Division 3 or 4 Counties or not – are automatically included in Sam Maguire Qualifiers even if they do not qualify for their provincial final in 2021"
Even if that is not the case, looking at the text of your post it would appear that Cavan could also avoid the 2nd Tier by getting promoted from Div 3, which for me is a priority for them anyway.
I actually see it in my original post anyway that Cavan and Tipp will be in the proper Championship.
So if Cavan and/or Tipp fail to get promotion, a team that goes up from Div 3 will miss out?
I'm not really for this competition but will be interesting to see how it goes and what they buy in will be like.
Derry would look like the overwhelming favourites from here if they get their main men all committing but also depends on who goes down from Div 2.
As far as I can make out Cavan and Tipp won't be involved depending on what they mean by "recommended". Is there still another ratification stage?
Reading between the lines it won't effect other promoted teams. They mention if more than 16 teams involved (including NY), which implies there could be less than 16 teams involved if provincial champions and Division 1 & 2 teams are exempt.
I think Derry will be looking for promotion but are in a tough section with Cavan, Fermanagh and Longford. Tipp, Wicklow, Limerick and Offaly the other section. Even if Derry finish second from that 4 they would still fancy their chances of making the final and gaining promotion.
At this stage I'd be keeping an open mind on this Cup and hope it takes off. If teams buy into it, it could be a terrific competition. Division 2 is a minefield and always good for a shock so as mentioned there could be a couple more big names in there yet. But not so big any other of the teams wouldn't give themselves a chance. I think it potentially offers more excitement to the counties involved than going through the back door and prolonging the agony.
The final to be played before one of the All Ireland hurling semis.
It shows the importance this competition by HQ. Played in front of a few hundred Kilkenny or Waterford hurling fans eating their sandwiches (in a normal year). And probably 2 minutes of highlights on TSG that night.
Really, what is the difference between this and the Tommy Murphy cup?
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
The final to be played before one of the All Ireland hurling semis.
It shows the importance this competition by HQ. Played in front of a few hundred Kilkenny or Waterford hurling fans eating their sandwiches (in a normal year). And probably 2 minutes of highlights on TSG that night.
Really, what is the difference between this and the Tommy Murphy cup?
If that is true (not doubting you) then its a scandal.
In my opinion, it should be played before the AI final instead of minors. All tickets should be equally distributed between the 4 teams competing. No 2 tickets to every club in the world. Its either important or not, playing in front of a hurling audience is an insult.
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:28:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
The final to be played before one of the All Ireland hurling semis.
It shows the importance this competition by HQ. Played in front of a few hundred Kilkenny or Waterford hurling fans eating their sandwiches (in a normal year). And probably 2 minutes of highlights on TSG that night.
Really, what is the difference between this and the Tommy Murphy cup?
If that is true (not doubting you) then its a scandal.
In my opinion, it should be played before the AI final instead of minors. All tickets should be equally distributed between the 4 teams competing. No 2 tickets to every club in the world. Its either important or not, playing in front of a hurling audience is an insult.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1222/1185956-tailteann-cup-should-be-on-same-day-as-all-ireland/
(https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1222/1185956-tailteann-cup-should-be-on-same-day-as-all-ireland/)
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 01:28:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
. All tickets should be equally distributed between the 4 teams competing.
God bless yer innocence.
Too many sacred cows would have to be discommoded for that to happen.
Obvious thing to do is play Minor, u20 and Tailteann Finals as a triple header the Saturday of All Ireland weekend.
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I'd agree with this.
I think 90% of tickets should be given to competing counties in the All Ireland finals. In the case outlined above with the Tailteann Cup, you could go 30-30-15-15 between senior teams and Tailteann teams.
But why could we not just have a stand alone day at Croke Park (or another venue) for this final? I don't get this whole Croke Park thing for me. As a player I'd rather play in a packed provincial stadium than a half empty Croke Park.
Does it not diminish the competition itself as being an undercard?
How many counties have their intermediate club final as the precursor for the senior final?
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I'd agree with this.
I think 90% of tickets should be given to competing counties in the All Ireland finals. In the case outlined above with the Tailteann Cup, you could go 30-30-15-15 between senior teams and Tailteann teams.
But why could we not just have a stand alone day at Croke Park (or another venue) for this final? I don't get this whole Croke Park thing for me. As a player I'd rather play in a packed provincial stadium than a half empty Croke Park.
Does it not diminish the competition itself as being an undercard?
How many counties have their intermediate club final as the precursor for the senior final?
I played intercounty for a number of years. I would take croke park ten times out of ten. Its the macca. Anything else is second best and playing a 2nd tier compo out of croke park really does undermine its credibility. Any poster who does not understand that Croke Park is the 'field of dreams' for any player simply imo has no appreciation of players aspirations.
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I get what you're saying but to be fair an awful lot of those tickets make their way back to the competing counties anyway. I very much doubt 50% of any attendance at an AI final ever was neutral, not even close. Which adds to the atmosphere.
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I'd agree with this.
I think 90% of tickets should be given to competing counties in the All Ireland finals. In the case outlined above with the Tailteann Cup, you could go 30-30-15-15 between senior teams and Tailteann teams.
But why could we not just have a stand alone day at Croke Park (or another venue) for this final? I don't get this whole Croke Park thing for me. As a player I'd rather play in a packed provincial stadium than a half empty Croke Park.
Does it not diminish the competition itself as being an undercard?
How many counties have their intermediate club final as the precursor for the senior final?
This absolutely for me but very hard to get away from CP mindset.
Quote from: Knock Yer Mucker In on December 22, 2020, 02:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I'd agree with this.
I think 90% of tickets should be given to competing counties in the All Ireland finals. In the case outlined above with the Tailteann Cup, you could go 30-30-15-15 between senior teams and Tailteann teams.
But why could we not just have a stand alone day at Croke Park (or another venue) for this final? I don't get this whole Croke Park thing for me. As a player I'd rather play in a packed provincial stadium than a half empty Croke Park.
Does it not diminish the competition itself as being an undercard?
How many counties have their intermediate club final as the precursor for the senior final?
I played intercounty for a number of years. I would take croke park ten times out of ten. Its the macca. Anything else is second best and playing a 2nd tier compo out of croke park really does undermine its credibility. Any poster who does not understand that Croke Park is the 'field of dreams' for any player simply imo has no appreciation of players aspirations.
You'd take a quarter full Croke Park over say a packed Clones?
Flocks of seagulls flying in and out of an empty echoey stadium belittles the status of a big game I think.
Getting to Croke Park is no longer a big deal as far as I can see. Nearly every county has been there at some point in the past 5/6 years.
Or day before the All Ireland. Televised, big campaign to get fans in or double header with McDonagh cup. Fanfare, marketing etc etc
Really hope it take off, its the future. All Sports have tiers, all counties have tiers, even Inter-County Hurling has tiers
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:52:39 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I get what you're saying but to be fair an awful lot of those tickets make their way back to the competing counties anyway. I very much doubt 50% of any attendance at an AI final ever was neutral, not even close. Which adds to the atmosphere.
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Its very practical. But giving 50% of your tickets to random clubs up and down the country and elsewhere is the killer here. Where there is a will there is a way. Whats being proposed here is the death knell for the competition before it has even started.
I'd agree with this.
I think 90% of tickets should be given to competing counties in the All Ireland finals. In the case outlined above with the Tailteann Cup, you could go 30-30-15-15 between senior teams and Tailteann teams.
But why could we not just have a stand alone day at Croke Park (or another venue) for this final? I don't get this whole Croke Park thing for me. As a player I'd rather play in a packed provincial stadium than a half empty Croke Park.
Does it not diminish the competition itself as being an undercard?
How many counties have their intermediate club final as the precursor for the senior final?
This absolutely for me but very hard to get away from CP mindset.
I think many of the tickets do get back to the counties but I know that in many clubs the same "neutral" lad is going to every final, a badge of honour. Then the ones that make to the county participating. Well in my experience if my club was in Cavan there is probably some Mayo lad in the town that would like to go but isnt a member, never goes to their games and he gets a ticket. Thats an awful shite way to dish out these tickets.
One thing that sticks with me on the subject of half empty Croke Park v packed provincial grounds.
I remember going to the 2002 League final between Tyrone and Cavan in Clones, I watched it back there over Lockdown - about 20k of a crowd there, great atmosphere and really added to the game.
I think of recent national league finals and the damp feel to them when they are played in a stadium that is only 1/3rd open and empty seats left everywhere. I really don't understand why anyone would want to watch or play in a game in that situation over a full house where you can feel the atmosphere and it enriches the game as a result.
I know the GAA are adamant to use CP for commercial reasons but it once again shows how the greed from top brass is really destroying the game.
Quote from: TheGreatest on December 22, 2020, 02:56:39 PM
Or day before the All Ireland. Televised, big campaign to get fans in or double header with McDonagh cup. Fanfare, marketing etc etc
Really hope it take off, its the future. All Sports have tiers, all counties have tiers, even Inter-County Hurling has tiers
Yeah as someone else suggested I think weekend of AI is a good call. Double or treble header would be great on the Saturday evening before AI.
You might even have some fans from the main event in town for the weekend anyway who would come to see especially if their county was also involved in one of the other games e.g minor, U20. They could do a deal on tickets too, say if you have an AI final ticket already you get discount on Tailteann Cup ticket. Good discounts for family tickets, food deals etc. Just go for it and try make a real event out of it and get in a big crowd.
Don't get the mix and matching of football/hurling. They're different sports. If someone wants to see a hurling match nothing stopping them going to see one and vice versa for football.
The guys making these decisions really are a bunch of clowns. I had come round to the idea of the Tailteann Cup,but proposing it's played before the All-Ireland Hurling Semi?? Load of bollox.
They are forever changing the rules too, was it not first agreed that any county outside of the top two divisions who got promoted or got to their provincial final would play in the main draw in that same year? Would have thought both Cavan and Tipp would have had to get promoted or reach the provincial final again to play in main draw in 2021.
The semi finals are down for the weekend 5/6 June so they're probably avoiding a 4 week run in to the Final?
I think the Semis are the only fixtures on that weekend.
Whatever about the Covid affected 2021 for 22 I would strongly urge the powers that be to play a triple header of AI Finals the Saturday of the Senior Final weekend (Minor/U20/Tailteann) with loads of juvenile tickets and reasonably priced adult ones.
Quote from: tintin25 on December 22, 2020, 03:31:13 PM
The guys making these decisions really are a bunch of clowns. I had come round to the idea of the Tailteann Cup,but proposing it's played before the All-Ireland Hurling Semi?? Load of bollox.
They are forever changing the rules too, was it not first agreed that any county outside of the top two divisions who got promoted or got to their provincial final would play in the main draw in that same year? Would have thought both Cavan and Tipp would have had to get promoted or reach the provincial final again to play in main draw in 2021.
Yeah I am one who saw great potential and merit in a 2nd Tier competition but TBH I'm now really pissed off with their latest brain wave.
Having a final as a curtain raiser to a semi final is really insulting and incomprehensively dumb. But I can see their logic. "We can't sell out a hurling semi final anyway so why not get the boggers in to fill the seats. It will be a real threat for them too to see a proper sport and cherry on top, we get to over charge everyone for admission."
No hurling fan is going to come 2hrs early to see some f*!@$!g football match! And no football fan, after having witnessed their team either lift a cup or lose a final, is going to sit through some f*!@$!g semi final of a completely different sport!
There's also the price issue.
Last AI semi I attended was €45 I think. If you had this Tailteann cup final as a stand alone game, there's no way it'd cost €45. So, if a predominantly footballing county like Cavan (bad example I know, cue the tight Cavan man jokes) got to the Tailteann final (played with the hurling semi), I'd say they'd begrudge having to pay €45 for a ticket.
It just seems like the minimal thought went into this which looks like we are in for Tommy Murphy Cup Rev 2.
It's a detatchment from the grass roots once again.
Finances dictate what action is taken not the growing and betterment of the game.
Several posts related to crowds , tickets and what have ya . Like i posted in here months ago and was sniggered at , there will be little to no crowds next year and it could be as late as 2023 before we ever see full house games again or perhaps even later .
Quote from: larryin89 on December 22, 2020, 04:44:37 PM
Several posts related to crowds , tickets and what have ya . Like i posted in here months ago and was sniggered at , there will be little to no crowds next year and it could be as late as 2023 before we ever see full house games again or perhaps even later .
Yes but events aren't being planned for based on out lier year next year will be.
If it had been run this year the teams in it would have been
Antrim, Fermanagh, Derry, London, Waterford, Limerick, Leitrim, Sligo, Carlow, Offaly, Wexford, Wicklow, Louth, Longford.
I'm not sure whether New York would have been involved [if it was a normal non-Covid year]
I think whatever way the draw went, there would surely have been a serious chunk of competitive games between these teams.
I'd imagine if you looked back at the record books and looked at the record of the Tailteann Cup eligible teams in the qualifiers it would have been fairly anemic over the years.
Off the top of my head I'd say the number of Tailteann Cup eligible teams who have got to the quarter-finals/Super 8s via the qualifier route much be very close to zero.
@twohands:
Fermanagh and Derry got to the semis in 2004.
Wexford semis in 08.
Sligo QF 2002.
Limerick QF 2011.
Antrim round 4 qualifiers (might have progressed had they not met Kerry)
I think it'll be good if it's done right, similar to the Joe McDonagh, I think the winners should get a good holiday as an Incentive for teams to buy in. Could have the winners play the All stars instead of the way it is at the min against the previous years all stars. Or scrap the all star game and have the all Ireland winners play the Tailteann winners in a charity shield like game in a different country every year, might be a decent carrot for the teams
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 05:14:29 PM
@twohands:
Fermanagh and Derry got to the semis in 2004.
Wexford semis in 08.
Sligo QF 2002.
Limerick QF 2011.
Antrim round 4 qualifiers (might have progressed had they not met Kerry)
Quick off the mark Benny. However have to pull you on a few technicalities.
Sligo wouldn't have been eligible for the Tailteann Cup in 2002 - Got to the Connacht final.
Neither would Wexford in 2008 - Got to the Leinster final.
So just Fermanagh and Derry in 2004 and Limerick in 2011
Overall it's been fairly slim pickings.
I wonder if any sort of inference about standards/gaps between the various levels can be drawn from the lack of success in the last few years?
Quote from: themac_23 on December 22, 2020, 05:20:00 PM
I think it'll be good if it's done right, similar to the Joe McDonagh, I think the winners should get a good holiday as an Incentive for teams to buy in. Could have the winners play the All stars instead of the way it is at the min against the previous years all stars. Or scrap the all star game and have the all Ireland winners play the Tailteann winners in a charity shield like game in a different country every year, might be a decent carrot for the teams
I'd definitely be in favour of the team holiday idea.
However I'd say a game against the All-Ireland winners would be more like a stick than a carrot for whoever won it.
How about a Tailteann All Stars?
Can't help feeling this competition will be a dead duck before it even starts. Plenty of teams will likely use it to give extended panelists and U20s a run out.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
How about a Tailteann All Stars?
Was about to suggest that. Tailteann All Stars v AI All Stars outside the country would be a nice trip. Only problem maybe is selection is weighed very heavily towards competition finalists.
If you had selection process like Compromise Rules leaving it in the hands of prospective managers you might get better spread of players.
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 22, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 05:14:29 PM
@twohands:
Fermanagh and Derry got to the semis in 2004.
Wexford semis in 08.
Sligo QF 2002.
Limerick QF 2011.
Antrim round 4 qualifiers (might have progressed had they not met Kerry)
Quick off the mark Benny. However have to pull you on a few technicalities.
Sligo wouldn't have been eligible for the Tailteann Cup in 2002 - Got to the Connacht final.
Neither would Wexford in 2008 - Got to the Leinster final.
So just Fermanagh and Derry in 2004 and Limerick in 2011
Overall it's been fairly slim pickings.
I wonder if any sort of inference about standards/gaps between the various levels can be drawn from the lack of success in the last few years?
Fermanagh SF 2004, QFs 2003 and 2015
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 22, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2020, 05:14:29 PM
@twohands:
Fermanagh and Derry got to the semis in 2004.
Wexford semis in 08.
Sligo QF 2002.
Limerick QF 2011.
Antrim round 4 qualifiers (might have progressed had they not met Kerry)
Quick off the mark Benny. However have to pull you on a few technicalities.
Sligo wouldn't have been eligible for the Tailteann Cup in 2002 - Got to the Connacht final.
Neither would Wexford in 2008 - Got to the Leinster final.
So just Fermanagh and Derry in 2004 and Limerick in 2011
Overall it's been fairly slim pickings.
I wonder if any sort of inference about standards/gaps between the various levels can be drawn from the lack of success in the last few years?
Did Antrim not get to Ulster final year they played Kerry?
Anyways I'm al for teams playing in a championship that is actually at a grade that they can achieve realist targets.
Based on all current attempts at Sam Maguire Dublin should be on their own
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 22, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Bit of an OG having it with hurling semi-finals. Makes it sound gimmicky.
Double header with AI final would be great but don't think that's practical due to normal ticket demand (although if Dublin keep walking it demand could drop).
If they go with a standalone fixture I think Croker is too big so sticking with HQ, a double or treble header would be the way to go.
Utter balls yet again from Croke PArk. They did the exact same thing with the Christy Ring and the Nicky Rackard cups which were once played before the AI hurling semi-finals and then when a "hurling" man came to power, Nicky Brennan he relegated those two competitions to some date out of the way so that the minors were back in before the AI semi-finals.
And then they wonder why there's little or no buy in from counties in relation to these tiered championships...
Dickheads.
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
€50 in book tokens to each winning panel member as a prize
€20 in book tokens to each member of the losing finalists' panel
Or maybe the GAA could really push the boat out, give each of the winners a nice new Mitsubishi Black Diamond television, with a small Grundig telly for each of the losers
This would drive huge public interest in this Token Cup
Capture the public's imagination, there's huge potential here to promote to promote this pointless losers' competition, make it like a GAA version of Murphy's Micro Quiz-M
Central to this is the idea of the four Ps
Promotion
Placement
Public
Pointless
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
The destruction of the Ulster hurling championship was long before those tiered competitions, it was like the Leinster football championship and it needed scrapped. Once in a blue moon a team came along and challenged Antrim, Antrim has more clubs to pull from and while S'neil are some outfit, getting that at County level for Derry is the biggest problem they have..
Down have proved that they can catch Antrim when all the stars align and pull off a win.
Id be for the Ulster Championship to return, just not with Antrim in it
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
How about a Tailteann All Stars?
Put a big picture of them in the centre spread of the Our Games annual, like the old Carroll's All-Star posters
Would be a lovely touch
"Leitrim defender Jolly Honeyman-McGarty held Michael Quinlivan to just a point from play in their 18 point first round defeat by Tipperary in front of 52 people and one dog at Ardfinnan
A fine stylist and exponent of the art of man-marking a completely unmotivated top tier forward in a glorified challenge game"
"This Tailteann All-Star is just reward for Leitrim football, their day in the sun"
Why don't the 31 counties join the Tailteann cup? It would be competitive.
Dublin could find something with Sky, I'm sure.
Quote from: seafoid on December 23, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Why don't the 31 counties join the Tailteann cup? It would be competitive.
Dublin could find something with Sky, I'm sure.
So you're capitulating on behalf of 31 counties - is that not a bit presumptive?
I'm sure that counties like Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Galway, Meath, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh, Down and others would not be prepared to march behind your white flag.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
What's your point though?
Antrim are competing in Leinster and McCarthy cup.. is there three levels in the one competition?
I know the Rossies wouldn't know what end to hold on a hurl but have a bitta wit
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
It wasn't always that way. Antrim competed well in late 80's and early 90's. As did Down and Derry if I recall.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 23, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
€50 in book tokens to each winning panel member as a prize
€20 in book tokens to each member of the losing finalists' panel
Or maybe the GAA could really push the boat out, give each of the winners a nice new Mitsubishi Black Diamond television, with a small Grundig telly for each of the losers
This would drive huge public interest in this Token Cup
Capture the public's imagination, there's huge potential here to promote to promote this pointless losers' competition, make it like a GAA version of Murphy's Micro Quiz-M
Central to this is the idea of the four Ps
Promotion
Placement
Public
Pointless
The all ireland senior football is the same
Promotion
Placement
Public
Pointless
Maybe the GAA needs to bring in decent sports administrators from other sports.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 23, 2020, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 23, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Why don't the 31 counties join the Tailteann cup? It would be competitive.
Dublin could find something with Sky, I'm sure.
So you're capitulating on behalf of 31 counties - is that not a bit presumptive?
I'm sure that counties like Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Galway, Meath, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh, Down and others would not be prepared to march behind your white flag.
Meath would
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Late eighties to early noughties ish it was great. Competitive with three winners. The tiered thing did kill it but the backdoor in hurling had already done half that job and it had got to a stage where Antrim were very dominant. Derry gave Offaly a good rattle late noughties and down cork, Antrim tipp, Antrim Wexford etc.
Seafoid after that post you put on that Dublin thread last weekend I don't know why anyone bothers with you. You have gone too far with it and lost all sense of reason.
I do believe in a second tier. I don't know what that means for provincials and the media approach would need to improve for lesser teams.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Late eighties to early noughties ish it was great. Competitive with three winners. The tiered thing did kill it but the backdoor in hurling had already done half that job and it had got to a stage where Antrim were very dominant. Derry gave Offaly a good rattle late noughties and down cork, Antrim tipp, Antrim Wexford etc.
Seafoid after that post you put on that Dublin thread last weekend I don't know why anyone bothers with you. You have gone too far with it and lost all sense of reason.
I do believe in a second tier. I don't know what that means for provincials and the media approach would need to improve for lesser teams.
HQ's approach would need to improve for the lesser teams, and their Tier 2 project. First year of it, and look where they pencil in the final ffs.
Even if teams/fans bought into the Tier 2 championship, any attention the final might get would be dwarfed by the likes of a Tipp Kilkenny hurling semi on the same bill. And that's without including other potential matches that weekend.
Would TSG make a big deal at the winners hotel? Manager/captain interviews? MOTM award? I seriously doubt it. The hurling would dominate the evenings program. As it should.
The Sunday game needs to change imo. The evening show. A load of boys trying to raise their own profile and too much talking.
The day before the all Ireland or something like that would be great.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Late eighties to early noughties ish it was great. Competitive with three winners. The tiered thing did kill it but the backdoor in hurling had already done half that job and it had got to a stage where Antrim were very dominant. Derry gave Offaly a good rattle late noughties and down cork, Antrim tipp, Antrim Wexford etc.
Seafoid after that post you put on that Dublin thread last weekend I don't know why anyone bothers with you. You have gone too far with it and lost all sense of reason.
I do believe in a second tier. I don't know what that means for provincials and the media approach would need to improve for lesser teams.
All the way up to the late noughties really.
Sligo won a Connacht in 07.
Wexford in a semi-final in 08.
Down coming from nowhere to a final in 10.
Thereafter the impact of Dublin bankrolling HQ came into being.
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:59:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Late eighties to early noughties ish it was great. Competitive with three winners. The tiered thing did kill it but the backdoor in hurling had already done half that job and it had got to a stage where Antrim were very dominant. Derry gave Offaly a good rattle late noughties and down cork, Antrim tipp, Antrim Wexford etc.
Seafoid after that post you put on that Dublin thread last weekend I don't know why anyone bothers with you. You have gone too far with it and lost all sense of reason.
I do believe in a second tier. I don't know what that means for provincials and the media approach would need to improve for lesser teams.
All the way up to the late noughties really.
Sligo won a Connacht in 07.
Wexford in a semi-final in 08.
Down coming from nowhere to a final in 10.
Thereafter the impact of Dublin bankrolling HQ came into being.
And after those flash in the pans (include, Cavan and Tipp this year please) have they really achieved? Sligo and Wexford were are div 4 teams!
We got to an Ulster final in 09. Oh wait...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 24, 2020, 12:46:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 23, 2020, 11:59:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
The hurling minorities in the football Counties are in the main delighted with their tiered Championships.
I remember hearing Derry's Chrissy McKaigue speak about the hurling tiers. He said that it wasn't all so great, and that he wasn't happy that they have ultimately led to the destruction of the Ulster hurling championship. Yes, you might sneer at that, but he has a point.
With all due respects the Ulster Hurling Championship was usually about 3 levels below the Leinster/Munster/AI Championships.
Late eighties to early noughties ish it was great. Competitive with three winners. The tiered thing did kill it but the backdoor in hurling had already done half that job and it had got to a stage where Antrim were very dominant. Derry gave Offaly a good rattle late noughties and down cork, Antrim tipp, Antrim Wexford etc.
Seafoid after that post you put on that Dublin thread last weekend I don't know why anyone bothers with you. You have gone too far with it and lost all sense of reason.
I do believe in a second tier. I don't know what that means for provincials and the media approach would need to improve for lesser teams.
All the way up to the late noughties really.
Sligo won a Connacht in 07.
Wexford in a semi-final in 08.
Down coming from nowhere to a final in 10.
Thereafter the impact of Dublin bankrolling HQ came into being.
And after those flash in the pans (include, Cavan and Tipp this year please) have they really achieved? Sligo and Wexford were are div 4 teams!
I think it's obvious what changed. Dublin made the game elite. Small counties can't compete with the resources - be it time, money, facilities, commitment now required to get to Dublin's level.
You could Sligo for instance, they were a very strong county for much of the 00s. Regularly competing for Connacht during that decade, can remember them very vividly knocking Tyrone out in 2002 (Tyrone went on to win Sam the following), the same year they drew with Armagh in the QF and narrowly lost the replay (Armagh went on to win the All Ireland that year). Won a Connacht in 07. Also knocked Kildare out in 2001 a couple of years after Kildare had been in an All Ireland. Should have put Kerry out of the Championship in 09 when they missed a late penalty, Kerry went on to win the All Ireland.
Fermanagh again similar. Lost narrowly to Mayo in an AI SF replay in 04, had beaten Armagh, Cork and Meath among others at that time who were all top 10 counties. Was it 08 when Fermanagh were extremely close to their first Ulster title, where they drew with Armagh and lost the replay.
We had a good 20 year spell of where every county had realistic ambitions of dreaming at what they could achieve. For the likes of Sligo and Fermanagh back then, an All Ireland wasn't a pipe dream. They genuinely had cause to believe they could go the whole way.
Not anymore though. We all know you are for elitism and the team with all the advantages such as pick, finances, facilities etc should be allowed to preserve those. You are for a golden circle championship which is why you want to resist anyone calling out the imbalances.