Lets get this ball up and rolling!!
Any Farney men out there waiting to get the championship up and going??
They have not saved the Hay yet,so dont expect a response
Couldn't call this game but I'd expect it to be a cracker, don't think it's live though.
Two of the best goal getters in the game in Tommy Freeman and Benny Coulter.
Is it in Clones?
No its in Newry!! Should be a packed house this time I expect!!
Comhairle Uladh wouldn't need to be charging E18 for the Terrace for only one game saying that the Minors isn't gonna be on!!
Going to be a very tough game for Monaghan, Down have home advantage and 2 tough games under their belts !
Looking forward to a cracking match though, still over 2 weeks away...................Whats the capacity of Newry lads ? Its not too often that Monaghan plays outside of Clones so am looking forward to the trip !
Our last game out (Meath game) brought the lads back down to earth, it showed up a weakness in our full-back line that Coulter and co. are more than capable of exploiting..............im hoping this has been addressed but the truth is we just don't have a commanding full back................Id be happy enough with the rest of the team, plenty of scoring forwards, and hopefully they will compensate for our defensive deficiencies ! Look out for a few of our under21 stars making an appearance either starting or off the bench, Brendan McKenna, Shane Smith, Ciaran Hanratty, Conor McManus, Ciaran Hughes (nudies son), alot of talent there..................but Down away will be a tough start to the championship....................
Should be a high scoring encounter.
Bring on the away trip ;D
According to the hogantruth.com
Down have received a timely boost ahead of their Ulster SFC quarter-final against Monaghan on June 10 with the return of defender Adrian Scullion to the fold.
Scullion, who is a native of Bellaghy in Derry but plays his club football with Carryduff, opted out of the panel during the National League due to his wedding and a change of jobs. But Down boss Ross Carr expects him to return to training this week and the half back could go straight back into the team against the Farney County as Damien Rafferty and Liam Doyle, who can play in both defence and attack, are both currently on the injured list.
Not sure if Scullion will make a whole pile of difference but he is a bit bigger ( but not cuter).The Sunday Tribune had a hype piece on Paul Mc Comiskey yesterday- while I agree with every word, I think Ross and DJ are right to keep him under wraps -however I would like to see more than 15 minutes of him.Have Monaghan been away on trips /team building stuff ?They are always a tight team in the championship .As the loser goes in to round 1 of the qualifiers, it is crucial for Down to get the win.Any word on Liam Doyle and Mickey Walsh ?
Doyle should be back by the middle of July as far as I hear!!!
As regards Scullion, it can only be a good thing having him back in the panel, as he adds that built of physical strength to the defence! He has played Championship before and the man doesn't lack a set of Billiards!!!!!!
QuoteAs the loser goes in to round 1 of the qualifiers, it is crucial for Down to get the win.
You will probably be in round 1 anyway, as if Monaghan don't get you, Derry will. Armagh will be waiting for you.
one thing is for sure Armaghniac, Down are still in with a shout of winning the Anglo Celt for 07, something that can't be said for Armagh :D :D :D :D
Armagh will be 6 weeks without competitive football .The most Down will be without this much needed match pratice will be four and possibly only 2 weeks and with at least three matches under their belt.Enjoy the wait!
Quoteone thing is for sure Armaghniac, Down are still in with a shout of winning the Anglo Celt for 07, something that can't be said for Armagh
And Enda Kenny has a shout of becoming Taoiseach.
QuoteArmagh will be 6 weeks without competitive football .The most Down will be without this much needed match pratice will be four and possibly only 2 weeks and with at least three matches under their belt
Sure they can play the subs, they would be as competitive as Down.
However you Down supporters will have more games to go to, enjoy!
However you Down supporters will have more games to go to, enjoy!
[/quote]
At least the Down support will be there in numbers at the games orange man. After all your county's spouting about supporting your team you lot have been exposed for the bandwagon jumpers you's are! 2,000 tickets returned, how embarrassing! Big Joe is 100% correct.
There won't be much trouble on the streets of Clones this year with Armaghs 'supporters' absence!!!
Terry McLoughlin - Sunday Tribune
Down Let Teenage Genie Slowly Out Of The Bottle
SO FAR the Down management has used Paul McComiskey sparingly. His championship role has been that of the impact substitute . . . but what an impact the teenager has made.
An outrageously constructed point from a seemingly impossible angle helped keep Down alive in the opening round tie against Cavan.
His assist for a goal ensured the replay. Last Sunday his impact was equally decisive.
Two late points provided the copper to fasten a meeting with Monaghan on June 10.
The scores were built around break-neck speed of thought and unflappable self-belief.
There has been criticism of Down football in recent times that not enough was being done to unearth physical specimens of the Ciaran Donaghy mould. But the one thing that has never in doubt in Down is the ability to produce flair forwards.
McComiskey is the latest to come off that particular production line which is part of the accepted Down tradition.
For if ever a player was equipped to follow in the footsteps of Mourne legends such as Paddy Doherty, Mickey Linden and James McCartan, the teenager fits the bill.
McComiskey still has a huge way to travel in football terms to meet the requirements of legendary status . . . but the journey has already started.
In a senior football career that can still be measured in minutes, the buzz surrounding the Dundrum forward has been immense. But the Down management duo of Ross Carr and DJ Kane are far too hard-bitten to allow any member of their squad to get carried away by headlines.
Anyway McComiskey, a product of Red High De La Salle football nursery in Downpatrick has become accustomed to dramatic press coverage.
His ability to score goals has never been in doubt. As an underage soccer player he hit 49 goals in one season.
Mark Hughes and Blackburn Rovers were desperate to sign him. Glasgow Celtic would have loved to get him in a hooped shirt. All the top Irish League clubs sought his signature. But when it came to football codes and team colours it was always going to be Gaelic football and Red and Black. Colleges All Star honours were followed by two seasons as a county minor.
In his first he helped Down win the All Ireland title. Earning the Man-of-the. . .Match award was secondary to helping win Down's sixth All Ireland crown.
Being the key component in every team he has represented is something that McComiskey has had to get used to. This season Queen's University, with the little accountancy student playing a tantalising and continually teasing role at corner forward, won the Sigerson Cup after three successive final defeats. He was the youngest player on the pitch but as usual McComiskey was able to turn in a performance above all expectations.
But expectation has never affected his attitude towards football. He plays the game with an unshackled approach to the attacking arts. This approach was evident from the day he debuted as a senior club football player at the age of 15 and from then it was inevitable that he would wear the Red and Black of Down.
Whether the Cavan defence knew what was in store for them before McComiskey came into the action can only be speculated upon. But now the genie is out of the Down bottle. There are many that would subscribe to the view that genius, rather than genie, would be a more appropriate description for the 19-year-old.
There are certain players that once the crowd is aware that they are to make an appearance, the response is electrifying. The impact on the rest of the team is just as significant. Down supporters know full well that whatever McComiskey contributes it will be based around scoring, or making scores. There is no other way that he is able to play.
One of the central parts of McComiskey's armoury is the intelligent way that he uses his speed reserves. The dip of the shoulder is balanced by blistering acceleration before the target is attacked.
Coming off the substitute's bench is not something that McComiskey has been used to during his football career to date. It is a tribute however to the Down management that they have been able to harness the huge potential of McComiskey so effectively as a replacement. It suits both parties to a tee.
Calls to have McComiskey given a starting role against Monaghan in a fortnight's time will continue to be resisted. The management see a player that will be unleashed when the pattern of the game dictates, not on the basis of public opinion.
When the call does come, the Dundrum man will do what is asked. All he has ever wanted to do is play for Down, and while it always looked like he would achieve his goal, he has never taken that honour for granted. A little cameo at Casement Park last season after the end of the first round minor championship match against Cavan reinforced that point.
Although on the beaten team, the 1-4 personal tally from McComiskey had kept Down alive until close to the final whistle. It was a towering performance.
It was recognised by half a dozen of his Cavan opponents. All of them rushed towards McComiskey, asking to swap shirts, all of them wanted his shirt above that of any other player.
He declined all requests.
As far as McComiskey was concerned nothing could persuade him. All that mattered was being identified as a Down player.
That identification process will be further consolidated before long.
Michael Walsh looks to be getting fitter and sharper all the time. I wouldn't say he is at his very best yet but he won't be far off it by the time the Monaghan game comes around. He had to come off on Friday night and ice his knee as he felt it tightening up.
Anyone else hear anything about Martin Clarke being available for some of the championship?
Does any one know what time this game is to be played on Sunday week, is it Live on TV and is there a game before hand ??
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 29, 2007, 11:42:22 AM
I had heard that Clarke is coming home for a while, but I doubt he would be allowed to play by Collingwood. HE would be some addition to that team at CHF.
I read somewhere that Clarke has it in his contract that he is allowed to play GAA whilst @ home, can anyone confirm ??
Where can I get confirmation that this game is in Newry
I'll confirm it for you right now.
Does anyone know if they charged for kids into the new stand the last day ?
QuotePosted by: downredblack
Does anyone know if they charged for kids into the new stand the last day
Yes they did...isnt that what all the moaning was about...somebody had to pay £72 for himself, the wife and two snappers and was complaining about it in one of the newspapers......dunno why he brought the wife anyway ;)
They've a quare pair of balls on them , looking £18 for a 5yr old into a match . Disgrace .
Tickets for the stand were only available in advance....so you could have taken a chance and bought one for yourself and chanced getting the young fella in for nothing at the gate...on the other hand take no chances and buy him a full price ticket.
There should really have been some family tickets as there seemed to be plenty of room left at the front of the stand.
Anybody fancy making a prediction of Down's starting 15 ??
Here goes with mine
1. M McVeigh
2. M Cole
3. A Scullion (If rumours are true he back on panel )
4. B Grant
5. R Murtagh
6. D Rooney
7. P Murphy
8. J Lynch
9. D Gordan
10. A Carr
11. B Coulter
12. R Sexton
13. P McComiskey
14. P Downey
15. D Hughes
I'm sure that this should get the debate rolling... ;D
Skullion in for McCartan if fit , Walsh in for McGovern . Big Jackie back in the Middle after that same as the last day .
Quote from: downredblack on May 30, 2007, 12:24:42 PM
Skullion in for McCartan if fit , Walsh in for McGovern . Big Jackie back in the Middle after that same as the last day .
We are not a million miles away from being on the same wave lenght DRB, is Walsh fit ???
Quote from: downredblack on May 30, 2007, 10:20:24 AM
They've a quare pair of balls on them , looking £18 for a 5yr old into a match . Disgrace .
if they had of walked over to the standing area the child would of got in for free, no problem.
Dunno if they'll start McComiskey though, despite all the hype maybe he's still better coming on later.
Regarding Walsh , he is playing away for the Bridge so I'm hoping he will be back to add a bit of experience to the half forward line ,
Overdabar, if u travelled a long distance say as an away fan, brought the children with you and found the weather was terrible then i doubt you would want or expect them to stand getting soaked for two or three hours!
Boys Id say Ross will be starting near enough the same team again.
1) Mc Veigh
2) M Cole
3) D Rooney / Scullion
4) Mc Guigan
5) D Rooney / Clarke
6) B Grant
7) R Murtagh
8) Murphy if Fit (J Lynch)
9) D Gordon
10) R Sexton
11) A Carr
12) J Mc Govern
13) D Hughes
14) P Downey
15) B Coulter
Be careful of the hype surrounding Mc Comiskey, could well blow him up to be great and him ending up being a disaster, id be impressed by him and hopeful of him growing the longer he is part of a senior setup but at the same time im hearing some over-the-top shit being said about him, people are talkin of him in a canavanesque type way.
Just a thought but can anyone come up with a teenage footballer in Down that has made a series impression in the Ulster or All Ireland series at senior level in the last 40 years or so when so young? Could you count them on one hand? guys that made a mark at the highest level and didnt flatter to decieve on occasion? any thoughts?
Apparently Dan Mc Cartan has 3 cracked ribs from the Cavan game, could be a doubt, also hear that Murphy has some sort of hand injury, any Ballyholland / Burren men know the score here.??
QuoteJust a thought but can anyone come up with a teenage footballer in Down that has made a series impression in the Ulster or All Ireland series at senior level in the last 40 years or so when so young?
Assuming you mean "serious" impression the last one is probably an 18 year old Colm McAlarney in 1968.
BTW Murph had a problem with his hand alright but I think he'll be fit.
Wee James played (and starred) in a National League final at the same age as McComiskey is now.
McCartan has cracked a few ribs. With a number of them carrying injuries, the Down squad is short a few defenders so a few more have been called up for to the training squad including, as far as I know, Scully. Another one is wee Soupy Campbell from the Harps, a player very much in the Dee Rafferty mould.
Injuries apart, I can't see Ross changing the team at all for Monaghan. I'd imagine a positional switch of Grant and Rooney is in the offing though, and depending on the Monaghan full-forward line, McGuigan could be in at 7 and Cole at 4. Kearney is probably closer than McComiskey to starting, with James McGovern the obvious fall guy. Clarke doesn't deserve to be anywhere near it based on the last two outings.
who else were the younsters on the teams of the 60s...just thinkin that todays game is increasingly becoming a young mans game and that the 28-32 aged footballer is all but being wiped out. Wee James was an obvious candidate but di he not make his mark when he was 21-ish?
Val Kane. I think he played played minor and senior in croke park on same day .
Greg Blaney . Think he won all irealnd u21 medal when 16.
All the Monaghan lads seemed to have come through the first round of their respective C'ship games unscathed so here's my prediction for Monaghan's starting XV.
1. Shane Duffy
2. Donal Morgan
3. Vinny Corey
4. Colm Flanagan
5. Desie Moen
6. Gary McQuaid
7. JP Moen
8. Eoin Lenon (if fit, otherwise Dick Clerkin)
9. Paul Finlay
10. Damien Freeman
11. Dick Clerkin (if not in MF, otherwise Stephen Gollogly)
12. Stephen Gollogly (if not CHF, otherwise Conor McManus)
13. Ciaran Hanratty
14. Shane Smyth
15. Thomas Freeman
Subs: Rory Woods, Brendan McKenna, Paul Meegan Ciaran Hughes, Darren Hughes.
He played a good part in the Sigerson, I remember in the semi against Cork and Cork had QUB on the backfoot until McComiskey picked the ball up skint a lpayer then smashed it into the net. After that and Sheehan going off QUB stormed to the win but every time he got the ball you thought something good was gonna happen.
Any word yet if this will be an all ticket game??? I don't see why it should when we couldnt fill the Marshes last time out.
Possible Monaghan team
1. Shane Duffy
2. Donal Morgan
3. Colm Flanagan
4. Gary McQuaid
5. Dessie Mone
6. Vinnie Corey
7. JP Mone/Dermot McArdle
8. Eoin Lennon - Definately fit, played well for Latton v Doohamlet last weekend
9. Dick Clerkin
10. Damien Freeman - probably will start although he isn't playing well
11. Paul Finlay
12. Stephen Gollogly
13. Ciaran Hanratty
14. Shane Smyth
15. Thomas Freeman
I think he has to start Vinnie at CHB, although I'd love to see him at Full Forward. He scored 1-6 against Blayney last weekend - horse of a man!
The only thing about Vinnie at CHB is that he then more or less has to start Donal Morgan at corner back - when he's good he's good. When he isn't, we'll know after 5 minutes. Dermot McArdle could be an early sub coming in.
Other than that I more or less agree GMF/ED
"Clarke doesn't deserve to be anywhere near it based on the last two outings."
That is a fair comment on his last two outings for Down. I cannot get my head round how ineffectual Clark is for Down. He should be top of the pile in the under achievers category. Any time he plays against us (Loughinisland) he gives us the complete runaround. Played us last week and scored 5 points from play in the first 25 mins, some of them real beauties and he was marked by one of our best players. If anybody knows a good hypnotist he could do Down a lot of favours.
Blue Island, despite the fact that nobody on this board seems to agree with me, I'll repeat again that John Clarke is not a defender, and that's the main reason why he underachieves every time for Down.
Agree totally. He is not a defender. County should play him wing forward.
QuoteOther than that I more or less agree GMF/ED
:)
Full back line of Flanagan Coyle and Mc Quaid.
If JP doesent make it I'd rather play D Freeman at wing back than McArdle, with McElroy been brought into the half forward line.
Rest of the team picks itself.
Can any of the monaghan posters give me an update on Paul Mc Guigan, the captain from the sem team of a couple of years ago. seen he captained the poly freshers a while back great prospect. i havent seen him mentioned in a while.
Agree Clarke is more of a half-forward. However, I'm not convinced Scullion should come in ahead of Mc Cartan- he did OK against Cavan and is a lot cuter.BTW, Blaney scored a goal against Armagh when we stuffed them in the 1981 Ulster final - aged 18.
Paul Mc Guigan has been out injured for the past year but has recently returned and is back on the county panel. Clontibret won the championship last year without his services and that of is injured brother jonny , another highly talented footballer. With both these players returning there could be an Ulster club championship on the way.
Well MM, you were on the go early this morning!!
Coyle at Full Back - would he not be caught for pace?
Damien would be a risk at wing back - not playing well recently
QuoteI'm not convinced Scullion should come in ahead of Mc Cartan
Scullion has been released to play for his club tonight...what that means I don't know...is he not in the reckoning for a starting place? Or does Ross what to give him a bit more football before Sunday week?
QuoteCoyle at Full Back - would he not be caught for pace?
His ability under the long high ball, which caused the problems in Croke park, may make up for his lack of pace.
The Ulster Council are considering shifting the match to Clones. Apparently the Down County Board have followed Dundrum's lead and have a Car Boot sale organised for Piarc Esler on Sunday afternoons. They are refusing to change it so there's a bit of a stand off.
WTF???
Quote from: 5 Sams on June 01, 2007, 10:31:08 AM
QuoteI'm not convinced Scullion should come in ahead of Mc Cartan
Scullion has been released to play for his club tonight...what that means I don't know...is he not in the reckoning for a starting place? Or does Ross what to give him a bit more football before Sunday week?
I dot tink Scullion will walk straight on to the side Ross will start with the same team that started the last day,I think Dan McCartan struggles on the side but he still gets the nod every time.I also think Aidan Carr has to contribute more to the game played alright in the first game but was quite in the second.
I thought Daniel MacCartan was injured??
Down will beat monaghan comfortably - Down for the Ulster Final and will sneak a win and become Ulster champs - now how's that for optimism ?
fantastic see TRyrone thread
From what I hear Adrian Scullion isnt in great shape. Heard he was struggling for Carryduff again Saval on Friday night. Looks like he'll not be involved on Sunday then.
If Scullion isn't fit, and McCartan's ribs rule him out, there aren't too many options about.
In terms of experience, the obvious choice is to bring John Clarke in at half-back and push Kevin McGuigan back into in corner-back. But on the last day's evidence, this would be doing both a disservice.
If not that, the only other defenders in the panel are Darren Cunningham, Eoin Henry and Stevie Toner, with a combined Championship experience of zilch. I'd rate Cunningham the highest of the three in terms of ability, but probably the weakest of the three as an out-and-out corner-back.
Given the options I think I'd plump for Henry, who is a fair enough man-marker, and allow McGuigan to play a more advanced role.
Is the match all ticket or is that just the Stand !?
How much for stand and how much for terrace?
I'm assuming it will be the same as the last day. £12 for the terrace or £18 for the stand.
From BBC, no real shocks, good to see Lennon back fit
Monaghan have named two championship debutants in their team for Sunday's Ulster SFC game against Down at Pairc Esler in Newry.
They are Scotstown's Donal Morgan at left corner-back and Shane Smyth from Monaghan Harps at full-forward.
Smith was a Sigerson Cup winner with Dublin City University in 2006.
Elsewhere, Eoin Lennon returns to partner Paul Finlay at midfield having recovered from a broken jaw sustained against Leitrim in the National League.
Hugh McElroy is listed amongst the subs after he missed the entire league campaign.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monaghan: S Duffy, C Flanagan, G McQuaid, D Morgan, D Mone, V Corey, JP Mone, E Lennon, P Finlay, D Clerkin, S Gollogly, D Freeman (capt), C Hanratty, S Smyth, T Freeman.
I'm sure it's been addressed on the Cavan v Down thread, but I'm aking here anyway: How come that Declan Rooney is the captain of the down team if he has never played a championship game up until the first Cavan game this year? Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about him, he may well be great, just seems a strange move to have your captain as a championship debutant.
Oakleafer, I've just nominated Rooney as one of the early players of the championship on the other thread. Down had no other natural captain in their squad, so Ross and DJ took a chance on a newcomer who had leadership potential. We will have to wait and see how it eventually works out, but it is looking like a decisive and inspired piece of management at the moment. Down have already gone further than most people expected anyway.
it's definitely an interesting move....they must see some DJ charcteristics!
would such a move not have upset the established members of the team....Mickey McVeigh, Benny Coulter, Dan Gordon etc?
Where has Rooney come from....through the underage ranks?
The simple answer is that there weren't/aren't many leaders in the Down camp oakleafer. Plenty of fellas who would talk the talk, and plenty of fellas who would walk the walk, but none too many who would do both and be guaranteed a starting position.
Rooney probably would have appeared on the scene a bit earlier if he hadn't wrecked his leg and spent a year plus out just after minors. Burren ones had high hopes for him before that happened and it looks like they were right.
I suppose its too early for the Down team to be announced yet ?
Jesus sure its only Wednesday!! Some chance hearing the team!
looking forward to sunday, hopefully the sun is out on a packed pairc esler. don't knoe which of the full backs will pick up tommy freeman, whoever it is will have his hands full, great player. again if we can win midfield and get plenty off good first time balls into the forward line i'd be pretty confident that they will do the business in front of goal.
24 degrees,
sun splitting the stones, 8)
championship back again at the Marshes ;D
the pitch like carpet, :-*
All sounds too much to be true, lets hope for a good performance, i'll take any dimension of a win as long as we get through.
When is the starting line up due out?? ???
Would like to see Jack Lynch & McComiskey start, I hear that mccartan is v v doubtful....
Unless Down sort out the full back line Monagahn will steamroll them
Dan Gordon serious doubt due to broken Hand
Monaghan: S Duffy, C Flanagan, G McQuaid, D Morgan, D Mone, V Corey, JP Mone, E Lennon, P Finlay, D Clerkin, S Gollogly, D Freeman (capt), C Hanratty, S Smith, T Freeman.
Any word on Down? Gordan would be a big loss.
Whats the chances of the students in the down squad pissing off to the USA for the summer if they are put out of the championship this weekend??
Back in my day we all hit New York / Boston etc etc & wondering if anyone has info on any of the players in the squad, mccomiskey & downie to name but 2.
ANY WORD ON THE STARTING LINE UP?
Down Senior football manager Ross Carr has made two changes to his starting XV for Sunday's Bank of Ireland Ulster SFC quarter-final with Monaghan in Newry.
John Clarke comes in at right corner back as a direct replacement for Dan McCartan.
The only other change in personnel sees Jack Lynch take the place of Paul Murphy, who hit 0-2 against Cavan last time out, at centrefield alongside Dan Gordon.
Carr and his assistant, DJ Kane, have opted not to make any positional switches to their young side (throw-in 15.30).
DOWN: M McVeigh; J Clarke, D Rooney, K McGuigan; R Murtagh, B Grant, M Cole; D Gordan, J Lynch; J McGovern, A Carr, R Sexton; D Hughes, P Downey, B Coulter
Source www.gaa.ie
Cheers Whitehair . . . .
Is the throw in not 16.00????
The throw-in is definitely 4pm. It's a bit hard to believe that Jackie Lynch is starting and Paul Murphy, who was excellent against Cavan, is on the bench. There must be a chance that Dan Gordan's hand is still a problem and Murphy will appear instead. Monaghan will be a physical side, which is where Lynch comes in, but Murphy has a fantastic engine, wins breaking ball all day and can take a score as well. John Clarke has the ability to do the job, but the indications in the first Cavan game were that he may not be cut out to play in the same half-back line as Ronan Murtagh. This could be a tight one.
Will be tight surely, not so suprised on Lynch.
He had a good game against cavan, with Eoin Lennon back for The Farney, Lynch will being that good physical presence.
It must have been a touch decision for Ross & DJ to leave Murph out though
Bank of Ireland Ulster Senior Football Championship Quarter Final - Down v Monaghan at Pairc Esler at 4.00pm
Ulster Junior Camogie Final - Down v Derry at Pairc Esler at 2.15pm
Leinster Junior Hurling Shield - Down v Longford at Pairc Esler at 12.30pm
Much as i would like to see Down back in the big time guys, i can't see it bein this year. Monaghan have far too much firepower for them. I reckon Down have prob the worst defence in Ulster. From what i seen against Cavan, this hasn't changed any. I see smeone lashed out at similar comments sayin people thot Cavan wud do the same BUT Cavan are nowhere near the same level as Monaghan. As a derry man i would love to play Down in the Ulster final cos Bradley would have a field day!!
Have to agree with "out in front" in that im glad to see Jacky Lynch starting on sunday. He adds a degree of physicality to the midfield & this will certainly be required v Monaghan.
boys i cant see it happening, still think that nurphy will be starting and team will be as per Cavan game with Clarke being the only switch,.....
And from our side of the fence we have selected probably the best half-back we've had for years in Gary McQuaid at Full Back! There's no doubt it's gonna take a guy with pace to keep Benny quiet but this selection seems somewhat odd! Banty has Vinney Corey selected at CHB who is also a very pacey defender who can get forward and take a score but it would seem more intuitive to place him in FB and move Gary McQuiad out to CHB. So it might not line out as it's announced either...
Watch this space!
what is the attraction with jack lynch lads?I really dont understand it
I have to agree with Brick Tamlin...Ross is at it again....if Murph is fit he'll start....the only thing stopping him from playing is if he has damaged the arm again.
Can't believe Murphy hasn't been named in the line up, time to get on to my housemate I think see what the real craic is with the team!!
Jack Lynch is an honest big lad that has worked hard for us in the two games he has played in and I don't think we can ask more than that . This time last year we had one midfielder now we potentially have three, having a bench that we can actually look at to make a difference is something we haven't had for some time .
BBC site says that Murph's exclusion is due to his injured hand.
Murph is starting on sunday i hear
Banty should be gaaged on the week before a match
Quote from: thebandit on June 08, 2007, 04:37:55 PM
Banty should be gaaged on the week before a match
Banty should be gagged. IMHO he's not going to take the team forward.
Can still see Monaghan having a good day on Sunday and winning by 2/3 points. But doubt they have it in them to put a run of wins togther in championship football. Far too inconsistented and squad is limited, particularly in defence.
Not going myself on Sunday, other commitments and am strangely not too bothered for a change. Picked the wife's tickets up last in cloghan and think €27 for a 1st round championship match with a camoige opener is way too steep. GAA are going to drive the fair weather support away, in a time when they should be attempting to embrace them.
anybody know where on the web i can listen to the game?
Quote from: lfdown2 on June 09, 2007, 03:24:30 AM
anybody know where on the web i can listen to the game?
Try www.fivefm.co.uk - they are Newry based. According to their site you can download the plug-in.
They'll probably start broadcasting from Parc Esler around 3.30/3.45pm
Quoteanybody know where on the web i can listen to the game?
for a Monaghan view, and if the five fm plugin doesn't work, try
http://www.northernsound.ie/index.php
Quote from: 5iveTimes on June 09, 2007, 10:58:31 AM
You may hope Northern Sound works, anything is better than 5fm.
Is Northern Sound any better?
JP Graham will be commentating on the game on Northern Sound with NUdie a co-commentator.
I'm not sure which of them is worse.
why was the start delayed?
Crowds delayed the throw-in.......it's on live on 100.5FM
Goal for Monaghan, 2 point lead, 5 mins left,
Rte Ad break >:(
:D
Monaghan stretch lead to 4 points, going into extra time
from RTE
Monaghan got the result of the day in football by beating Down 2-15 to 1-15 at Páirc Esler in Newry.
The game was an ill-tempered affair and it took two goals from Castleblaney Faughs star Ciaran Hanratty and a barnstorming finish from Paul Finlay to see the Farney through.
It was the first time since 1988 that Monaghan recorded a Championship win over their Mourne neighbours.
Same old, same old.
Congrats to Monaghan. By far the better team and they should be real contenders for Ulster this year.
Our defence must be one of the worst in championship football. Not one of the 6 dominated their opponent and were pulled to pieces constantly. Mc Guigan in particular was destroyed yet wasn't substituted. We have a panel of near 40 players yet not one of the sub defenders were deemed to be better than that which was on the field. Why are some of these guys wasting their time if they are not going to be played? Obviously the kudos of being on the panel is enough for these players. Surely they would be better playing for their clubs than warming the bench. The Longstone lads thought this and pulled the pin. If some of these subs had any pride in themselves they would do the same as Carr has no faith in them and wont put them on. If he had, they would have been put on today - on a day when our 6 defenders were shit.
Agree with Clor Mor, might be wrong but thought mc guigan started on hanratty, was switched off him and then back on him again. Was he supposed to have improved significantly in 40min? Thought Murph had a good game, Packie and Mc Govern arent up to the level. Any word on when Dee Rafferty would be back at county level, playing club football again.
Cloc Mhor,
totally agree.
Paul Murph was a machine today, unreal engine in him & covered every blade of grass
Not sure Whitehair about the switches but know he was dund, like many others. Murphy took two good points and did well throughout. Packie and Mc Govern were off the pace and I thought the same could be said for Carr who had a brutal first half but improved in the second. How did Hughes remain on the field? He must have touched the ball half a dozen times in the game and contributed nothing. Coulter was well maked throughout and was very disappointing.
Based on this performance we are no further on than we were this time last year. Just hope we can avoid Armagh in the qualifiers but knowing our luck, thats who we will pull.
Cloc mor, at least the panelists have the balls to give it a go and stick it out, if everyone adopted the attitude of the longstone boys who didnt have the balls for the long haul then we wouldn't even have beat Cavan. Good players don't just grow on trees.
Would the lonstone boys (and the rest) have jacked it in if down were tipped for glory this year? Smacks of glory hunters to me.
You talk about the subs having pride in themselves, they obviously have a bit of pride in their county or else they would have 'pulled the pin'!!!
IMO the players that left the panel should be left off it next year as they obviously don't have the commitment required!
QuoteCloc mor, at least the panelists have the balls to give it a go and stick it out, if everyone adopted the attitude of the longstone boys who didnt have the balls for the long haul then we wouldn't even have beat Cavan. Good players don't just grow on trees.
How do you work that one out?
QuoteWould the lonstone boys (and the rest) have jacked it in if down were tipped for glory this year? Smacks of glory hunters to me.
Surely a glory hunter would still be in the panel. No? Doesnt make sense
The point I was making was that Carr has no faith in these subs or he would have put some of them on. Why should they waste their time when they are not going to get playing? Clubs are losing out by not having these players but some are happy just to take the free tracksuit and all that goes with being a 'county player.'
f**k me, how disappointing was that?
Here's the long and the short of it. Under Paddy O'Rourke, Down had a number of serious problems that he seemed to pay little or no heed to.
1. We weren't able to compete in the breaking-ball stakes.
2. Our keeper hit the same kickout every single time.
3. A defence that was individually weak was never given the support it needed, i.e an extra man, or withdrawn wing-forwards.
4. The team tried to bring Coulter into the game at every opportunity, even when it was absolutely the wrong option.
5. Key players looked shorn of confidence.
And the most worrying thing is that every single one of those problems was evident as strongly as ever in Newry today.
Down conceded 2.15 at home, and all six starting defenders finished the game. Our slowest defender was asked to mark one of the quickest players in Ireland for the final quarter.
Here's a simple message for Ross Carr. Our defence isn't strong enough to keep us in games. They need help. Stop being so f**king proud, and just bring a man or two back.
well the simple answer for that is if you think about what i said you will find that if everyone adopted the 'quitter' attitude then how would training etc have gone ahead?? You need 30 players to train you know!! Duh!
No the glory hunter would not still be on the panel, maybe you didn't notice but down are hardly all ireland contenders these days are they??
Answer this one- do you seriously believe them fellas would have walked if down were serious contenders this year for ulster or a run in the all ireland?
What is the point in picking at things like- carr doesnt have faith in players? Reality is Ross has identified players who he thinks will develop in time with match experience, you highlight McGuigan for a grilling, he is as good as there is at the moment although Dee Rafferty would step into that position.
Any fella on that panel is there on MERIT this year and in time will get the chance, the question mark is on the ones who chose to walk out when the going got tough.
By the way every club in Ireland suffers because of their county team.
Does that make anymore sense?
'players but some are happy just to take the free tracksuit and all that goes with being a 'county player.'
you will find that the players who walked received gear and then did the runner, doesn't say much for them does it Cloc?
Everyone knows our defence needs to improve, but Cloc Mor's assessment is as harsh as his language. What CM ignores is that we were up against a fine side today, who were exceptionally well organised, strong down the middle and got every big decision from the referee. Most defenders would find it difficult against the likes of Hanratty, Finlay and Freeman in those circumstances.
Clarke and Grant actually had decent enough games, while Cole also did well. There's no doubt that McGuigan struggled throughout and Scullion, even if less than completely match fit, would have been an option. Rooney and Murtagh never really got going, and McVeigh, while he had little chance with either goal, found it hard to find our midfielders with some of his kick-outs.
When we did get the ball to big Dan, he was immense and took a wonder point after a fantastic catch in the first half. He was targeted repeatedly by Monaghan throughout the game, and got very little out of the referee. Dan regularly took catches and then had frees given against him for overcarrying. When the same thing happened to the Monaghan midfielder, he got the free which led directly to their crucial second goal.
Murphy's lack of height is a problem at midfield, but his pace and ability to take a score is impressive. His point before the break could easily have been a goal but he faded in the heat late on and probably should have been replaced.
McGovern, even though he kicked three frees plus a point from play, had his worst game to date for Down and should also have been replaced earlier after he was caught in possession time after time in the first half. The incident when he lost the ball just as he should have been able to take a score and they went straight down the field for Hanratty's first goal was a disaster.
Sexton worked himself into the ground without having a lot to show for it, but Carr found space, picked out our forwards in the corners and hit some great frees. It was just a pity he missed one near the end which could have put the pressure on Monaghan.
Hughes dropped deep but by his standards was ordinary and probably should have been changed. Downey was poor, and his goal was a bad mistake by the keeper, but he is young enough to come again.
I heard some Down fans complaining about Benny but he kept winning the ball and laying it off well even though he just couldn't score. One pass to McComiskey was brilliant, and he was also hauled down by a marker who was already on a yellow before the break. The ref bottled it and gave him a tick instead of a red.
McComiskey was everywhere when he came on and will have to start the next time, while Kearney also made a big difference. Walsh looked as though he needed the game, missed one sitter but at least kicked a decent point late on.
Good luck to Monaghan, who will give Derry all they want in the semi. We were two up with seven to go, but then they outscored us by 1-4 to 0-2 which tells its own story. They also hit quite a few wides from fairly easy positions, apart from the closing stages when everything they kicked went over.
It's probably unfair to go on about the referee, but there was some blatant time-wasting by Monaghan towards the end which he failed to add on and several of the key frees against Down looked very generous decisions.
Down are on a learning curve, and very few of us really thought we could win an Ulster title this year. However, given the improvement since the league, we might just produce a provincial challenge in 08 or 09. The qualifiers are a roll of the dice, but, on our day, we are capable of giving most of our potential opponents a game.
While I agree with some of Wobbler's criticisms, there are not many teams who will score 1-15 and lose in the Ulster Championship.
It's a pity that, after three games, we still have to go into the first round of the open draw, but we are certainly not without hope. If anyone is asking who we want, I'll take Armagh.
My sympathies to Down.We know what its like going out of Ulster early.please God may we miss ye in the qualifiers.
What I really wanted to say was that maybe now Ross and Dj will take a fundamental look at the style of play you are using.The days of 6 2 6 are gone, yet Down seem to insist on playing that way.
The first thing McAlinden and Canavan did at Armagh was work on the defence.I think your manager needs to address that.
God almighty ye scored 1 15 today and still lost!!!
What a crock of shite today. That Monaghan team were there for the taking today and we bottled it.
To put McGuigan back on your man after the roasting he got the first time was suicide. Stevie Wonder coulda seen what was gonna happen.
Aidan Carr isn't worth two fucks at senior county level, there are boys playing for our reserves who would have contributed what he did today.
Inter county forwards who won't shoot from 30 yards out, WTF is that about??
Not only was James McGovern poor up front but he was the direct cause of three Monaghan points.
Forget about the qualifiers because we just don't do them.
It's f**king depressing and make no mistake.
No1, Cloc Mor-were you at any league games ? We know the defence is limited but I don't think there are any better. The only 'Stone player within an ass's roar of the team is Ambrose and we need him back in midfield to allow Paul Murphy to drop back and, along with Doyle, that will tighten the defence. Mc Guigan had unenviable tasks today- imagine Dan Mc Cartan in that heat and that pace- and Dee Rafferty would have been an ideal man to help out.
My real disappointments were the three full-forwards and Mc Govern- unless the Monaghan defence is good, they need to look at the way Kearney and Mc Comiskey ( again) got tore in and shot first time.
Anyway, the 3 championship displays have been miles better than we could have hoped for - phrases like crock of shite are a load of shite- I'm a lot more optimistic this year than after Ballybofey last year.
No 1, you had better watch your language or the Mourne Rover will be complaining about your language.lol Apparently my assessment of Down's performance was as harsh as my language, according to MR. Read the thing man - I could have said alot worse using more colourful language. Wise up
Every Down player on that field today did his best, the game was lost by managements failure to address the glaring weaknesses in our defence, Failure to provide Gordon with a temporary breather in that heat, by switching him and Benny occasionally, failure to introduce Walsh and Mc Comiskey when the game was poised for the taking. If ever proof were needed that Ross and Dj have not yet got what it takes for county management,it was provided in abundance today.
What odds for a Down v Armagh 1st Qualifer game in Newry?
as a neutral at the game i have to say fair play to both teams for producing a decent game of football and although the best team probably won, down still could have took it.
one thing i noticed from where i was standing (behind the goals on the canal side) was the superior movement of the monaghan full forward line. the down full-forwards seemed content to stand bunched together inside the 21 while the monaghan three raomed about and allowed the midfield and half forwards to play some lovely diagonal balls in. could the down full forward line be accused of bein lazy??
i thought the down midfield was well on top thoughout, scoring three between them and dan gordan plucking some fine ball.
on another note which many seem to be complaining about on this thread, the down defence - although i don't know down club football inside out, i have a feeling that there aren't any players not on the panel which would have been a certainty to play today, maybe i am wrong??
finally, all credit must go to down on the refurbishment of newry, absolutely top class and pitch looked amazing
brill.. gwan tommy..gwan finlay..gwan..hanratty..gwan monaghan.. bye bye down,bring on derry
Having watched the game again on TV I have to say Monaghan did well.They are well organised, have good players in key positions and are fit and strong. The Down posters complaining here are too obsessed with us to see the quality of the opposition. They had a good league, they have been away together and as much as I don't like Mc Elkennon, they have been trained well. The cynicism at the end to time waste has no place in Gaelic football and Mc Eneaney should sort that out .Mourne Rover's summary is , as always , well informed even if he has a bit of Bennyitis .Last year a much worse managed Down ran Donegal to a point in Ballybofey - Donegal have not improved that much, Tyrone are short, Derry are average so I tip Monaghan for the Anglo-Celt and I will be delighted to see them take it
Pangurban if that switch with benny had been made and the result been the same something tells me you would blame the management for losing due to a switch like that. The management cannot win, Dan Gordan nearly threw in the towel when he was asked to play full forward in the league- he is best at mid field to be fair to him.
What is the point in kidding ourselves and papering over cracks year in year out. I for one have total faith in this managment set up, who else could do a better job? Who else would want the job?
Rafferty and Doyle would make a difference to that defence, big Ambrose would also have been useful alongside Dan Gordan today although Murphy did very well. If anything there is more competition for places in the future.
Cloc Mor, swear away to your heart's content about the game in general, if it keeps you happy, but don't use swear words about individuals. It's an ugly way of expressing yourself and lacks any kind of imagination. Anyway, there is little point in using four-letter words about the defence when the crucial first Monaghan goal today was the fault of a forward who lost concentration and possession when in a great position.
If No1 knows a reserve club side which is full of better players than Aidan Carr, it must be some outfit. Like many sons following a famous father, who also happens to be his county manager, he obviously lacks confidence from time to time. He is automatically in the spotlight when we lose, and he only started his first championship match a month ago, but it is hard to believe that some people cannot see the potential which is there. He repeatedly won the ball under pressure today and picked out forwards with diagonal balls into space. His free-taking was also first class, although he needs to score more from play. It's really a question of whether barracking him or encouraging him is the way to go.
Caitlin, I think it is the other Down fowards who suffer from Bennyitis rather than me. He still seems to be the target of every pass even when he is double marked. Benny did not play particularly well today, but the flick to McComiskey indicated the start of a partnership which could take us a long way.
I agree with everyone who has said that we were not good enough overall, but, apart from what turned out to be a blip in 2003, we have been in a steady decline since we lost the 96 Ulster final. Rebuilding a team has got to start somewhere, and it was always going to be a two or three year project. Paddy got four years and sadly it did not happen. Ross and DJ can be judged in 2009.
Mourne Rover, two things.
1. I didn't swear in any of my posts. Show me where I did.
2. Dont tell me what I can and can't do. Who do you think you are, Mr Know it all.
CM, you said our defenders were s**t, which is generally understood to be a swear word, and which, in this country, is spelt with an 'e'.
I can't tell you what to say, but I can ask you to show a little imagination. After that, it's up to you.
So what's the betting on the backdoor draw throwing up Down v Armagh on July 7th?! Stranger things have happened.
Having attended today's game as a neutral, the bottom line is that there were two poor defences on the field, Monaghan won because the Down defence was worse than the Monaghan defence. With Ross Carr not making any changes in the defence, it doesn't auger well for the backdoor!
Very disappointed today. Its hard to believe that you could lose a championship game after scoring 1-15, but we just weren't good enough. Our defence isn't good enough to compete at this level. I can only assume that Ross didnt make any changes in this department as he felt the players on the bench wouldn't be any better. As i said..................really really disappointed.
The full back line and full forward line were poor, but we still scored 1-15.
Monaghan were supposed to be vunerable under the high ball, yet we didn't really hit any decent one's in. Packie might have benefitted from a couple - he took his goal well/showed determination, but is very limited and looks uncomfortable on the ball.
Benny would be good in a decent f/f line but the defender always knows what he's gonna do when he gets it - put the head down and bore in on goal - a couple of points and a bit of variety would be good.
Danny Hughes did well when moved out.
The two Monaghan corner forwards roasted us - surely there are better/quicker corner backs somewhere in the County? McGuigan is a good player on the ball - but he's not a corner back.
All in all Ross and DJ are a big improvement over POR, the substitutions in the forwards are always good and positive, but the defence needs big work done.
McComiskey needs to start in the qualifier, and probably Walsh and Kearney, who's done well in the last 2 games.
6/10
v disappointing result yesterday; i commented with around ten to go, that down looked to have the game won playing poorly and maybe thats not a bad thing ie they can win and improve for the next day....what a kiss of death that was!
it really worries me that the entire country knows individually we aint good enough at the back, but we still wont play extra defenders in there....we have to stop being so naive. the game has changed! its negative, its about not conceding! we cant give up that many scores and expect to win a championship game.....the irony of all of this is that we have great scoring forwards.....take a player or even two out of that forward line, play them across half back and one in front of full backs, and we would still be ok up front. why wont we do this?? it worked against cavan but that was only cos cavan withdrew a player....not our choice!!
defenders were poor; cole was lost, mcguigan is not a corner back, rooney was terrible (first goal caused when he let freeman win a ball over his head, flicked onto hanratty), game passed by murtagh completely, same with grant, and j clarke! (dont know whats wrong here, but his confidence looks shattered)
murphy was excellent first half, seemed to fade second half, gordon is a highlight reel, some great catches (a superb score!) but i wonder if he has the balls for it.....last ten mins when we needed him he wasnt around.....thats a regular theme for me with him.
game passed sexton & mcgovern by completely; carr foraged and probed well, free kicks were excellent, but missed an absolutely critical one, prob easiest one he had all day!
danny was poor, downey isnt good enough (why isnt the lad burns getting a run out? he looked decent in lge games) and benny i fear looks now like a one-trick pony. when is he gonna score 5 or 6 points from play? why didnt we move him out field for a spell then back in again etc etc...he was marked v well i agree....
all in all, disappointing...i am concerned that tactically we dont seem to react to who we play against, nor to help our defence out. not sure where it leaves us really; a good draw in qualifiers might being their confidence on.....handy win then another handy win, then maybe meath or mayo in croker! thats the ticket for me.....
re: club football is terrible right now, and thats our problem, the standard isnt good enough and its reflected in our county team. why do we have so many second/third div players in our team....surely the team/squad should be made up primarily of div1 players? i think so anyways..
last comment: paul finlay looked a class act! pure quality, and looked to have so much time on the ball, always a good sign. freeman and hanratty were excellent; movement and score taking top notch. was very impressed with number 3 and number 6.....any names for me monaghan folk??
No.3 Gary McQuaid - prob best player in county but very easily distracted by off the field activities.
No.6 Vinny Corey - another excellent player, strong and super fit. Can easily play anywhere, scored 1-6 from play against us in recent championship game playing as FF.
Can't really comment on game itself as I was out of the country. It was a result that Monaghan badly needed, first win in Championship football in Banty's reign. a Relieved man today.
I can understand why Down posters feel that Carr didn't make the right changes at the right times. We had him as a manger for last two years. Sound fella and has his good qualities without a doubt but always thought his weakness as a manger was to make a positive change, be it a sub or positional change. Slow to react to what was happening on the field. Maybe it will take a few hard lessons before he develops a ruthless streak.
A great win yesterday for us, Newry is a tough spot to go and get a result and it was never going to be easy but fair play to the lads for sticking to the task especially in the last 10 mins when it mattered, Finlay scored some outstanding points to seal the win !
Hard luck to Down also, the game really was a 50-50 match and it could have gone either way. It was a great game to watch, very open and fluent with very little negativity. Both defences weren't the best but fair play to the lads for keeping Coulter under control, Dessie Mone (No. 5) and Vinny Corey (No. 6) did a fantastic job on him. No. 3 was Gary McQuaid, played a great game too, breaking up play and driving up the field to start the attacks. Derry will be a different proposition for us, more than likely Paddy Bradley will be back in the starting 15 along with Muldoon (who looked impressive yesterday), Monaghan's defence will have to improve greatly to stand any chance........................
While it's true Down need to look at their defence consider the players Ross and DJ didn't have available to them yesterday:
Dan McCartan - injured
Damien Rafferty - injured
Adrian Scullion - not match fit
Liam Doyle - injured
I'm not saying that all these players would have made a difference, but I think if all four were fully fit, they would walk into the Down defence (with Doyle and CHB obviously). I think many Down fans are divided on Dan McCartan, but I think he is a great man-marker and also has the ability to read the game very well. He could have done a decent job on Freeman or Hanratty yesterday, as could Dee Rafferty.
I don't think, as some posters are saying, that Down need to abandon their traditional attacking style - we never really blessed with that many great defenders anyway. I think it's purely a personnel thing - yesterday, they were not the best six defenders in Down, but they knew, with injuries and that, that their places weren't really under any threat. It doesn't matter what position you play on the field, competition for places is a great motivator.
Now Down have to make a mark on the Qualifiers where they have an abysmal record in recent years. Surely the three games to date will have given Ross and DJ enough to work on.
Fair dues to Monaghan the best team won, hopefully they can go on a give Ulster a good rattle. I would have them as slight favourites against Derry but only just. Freeman is some footballer, he was pure class Down were just lucky he kicked a good few wides.
Down weren't disgraced yesterday and there is potential to make a bit of a go of the qualifiers. That is if they decide to put the effort in, another Sligo could be on the cards if heads are in the right frame of mind.
Ambrose will be back for the next game, he played very well for the Stone on Friday night against us.
Was at the game yesterday behind the canal goal. Why on earth when down are in possession 30 yards out in front of goal can they not put the ball over the bar!! No other county in Ireland has this obsession with goals. Finlays final point was the widest point I have ever seen, but Monaghan deserved to win. Down had no structure to their game. McGuigan being sent to mark wee Tommy at the end sealed their fate.
QuoteFinlays final point was the widest point I have ever seen,
Until the ball began to curl back in and sail between the posts
Very dissapointed with the performance yesterday, still very poorly organised with no real game plan or system of play. No hard men on the team to rough players up or give us a physical presence. Too many players hiding all day yesterday. when the going gets tough most of our players are no where to be seen. Why were hanratty, freeman and finlay given the freedom of the park all day yesterday? why were none of them softened up/taken out of it or at very least distracted? I know it's bit cyncical and the purists will be offended but at this level and with a below average defence we need to employ tactics that at the very least verge on the wrong side of the law.
I also thought the referee had a very poor game.
I have to agree with Fior Gael, we are "light" in defence @ the moment and hopefully by Qualifier time we will have a few more bodies available, but in general the Physicallity of our defenders was poor, the monaghan defenders were getting stuck into our forwards throughout the whole game and in particular they obviously had a game plan to rough up benny.......
But our defenders ???? did not see anyone tryin to rough up their star forwards hanratty, freeman and finlay ... I personally believe our players lacked belief.. I watched Monaghan warm up before the game and they were pumped up... In the first 5 mins they were lettin our players that they were not in newry to make up numbers... Also we were not closing down their forwards quick enough, the time they had on the ball without anyone making a challenge was ridicilous...
But overall I think Ross & DJ would of learned alot more out of yesterdays experience and maybe analyise their own actions to why only forwards were changed, if in other posts people say that we were light in defence, why was Murphy not put back in defence and some of our Midfielders sittin on the side line put on to give Dan Gordan a hand out...
Down fans are a curious bunch, but then again I suppose no different from other supporters in that a win papers over all ills while a defeat marks the end of the world. Gauging the reaction after beating us and the tenor of comments here after losing to Monaghan there seems to be little or no middle ground at all.
Some Down fans over estimated their team's worth after beating a Cavan side that was well in it with them until tiring in the final ten minutes. No reason to get over excited.
Now Down are the world's worst after this defeat, but again, I don't see much reason to be too depressed. To my neutral eye, Down were dominant and in control and had the game practically won until Monaghan opened them up for the goal wit their first attack of consequence for some time. Stephen Kearney's point looked to have killed Monaghan off and in actual fact, I don't think the Farney men had done much in the way of attacking in the previous 15 mins? They looked out of it to me although naturally they always retained the threat with Hanratty etc. on the field.
Aidan Carr looks a very very good prospect, I'd lay off him if I was a Down fan, did a hell of a lot of positive things and was almost flawless from place kicks. Packie Downey looks very limited. Benny is like Jason Reilly - goal obsessed, poor point kicking ability and something of a one trick pony when he plays to type, needs to innovate a wee bit and can still be a match winner. Dan Gordon had an excellent game. Defensively Down are poor - is it just me or did they not tackle with the same close-in ferocity and hassling as against us? - and the long ball in hurt them yesterday, it was a shame Cavan didn't drop big men into attack until the game was lost in Newry because it looked to me like we might have got some change if we'd tried it earlier.
Three games should progress Down a lot under new management ahead of the qualifiers but like ourselves, there's alot of sharks in there. I'd nearly take another home game with Down!
As for Monaghan, they look a very decent team but they have the same defensive naivete and loosness that Down have, even allowing for the fact that it was their first game. Derry will be a different prospect and with the Oak Leafers traditionally strong at the back, Monaghan's best line may struggle to make the same impact. Hanratty looks class and as we all know Freeman has the stuff too. A few very decent looking layers elsewhere on the pitch as well, McQuaid did very well rading upfield. Could be a good year for Farney if they get over Derry, I wouldn't totally agree with Caitlin's dim praise of Donegal above - they have made big strides this year and that was a very good Armagh team that made them look so poor but they got the bit of luck and will build on that display. That theory will be tested v Tyrone but Donegal still favourites in my opinion, although in an Ulster final where they'd be raging favourites if playing Monaghan, they might struggle with the expectation.
Well done to Monaghan anyway.
Quotethe monaghan defenders were getting stuck into our forwards throughout the whole game and in particular they obviously had a game plan to rough up benny.......
A plan which involved walking over to him, bumping into him and then throwing themselves to the ground clutching their faces. Is that the type of tactics you want Down employing?
McVeigh - Agree with wobbler about kickouts . Our lack of variety is shocking. It is time for a change.
Full back line - D Rooney lucky to stay on. Did reasaonably well on freeman. McCartan was missed. We dont have many options.
Half back line. B Grant lucky top stay on. We struggle for pace throughout backs.
Midfield. Both outstanding
Half forwards.I thought A Carr did Ok. It was pity he missed one of his easiest free chances when Down most needed it though. Kearney to strt next time out.
Full Forwards. Brutal.
I'd agree cavanmaniac that the Down support are of a knee-jerk nature, but this was truly disappointing. I didn't overestimate Down after Cavan, but the second half of that game was encouraging, especially from a managerial point of view. About 15 posts ago on this thread, I highlighted a series of problems that have dogged Down throughout this decade - but during the Cavan replay, for the first time since Derry beat us in Newry a couple of years ago, those problems didn't really exist. In the Cavan game, we were prudent enough to play an extra defender back once was Lyng was sent off, we had no problems with breaking ball, our kickouts were varied, and when it was obvious that Benny wasn't going to count, the rest of our forwards were brought into play and they all responded well. For possibly the first time ever, it looked like a Down team had been set up with the opposition in mind. Fast forward a fortnight, and we're seemingly back to square one.
Regarding individuals, the criticism of Aidan Carr is well over the top. He's no Brian McGuigan, but over the past three games I'd say he's been the closest thing we've had to a centre half-forward since Shane Mulholland went to Friar Tuck's, never to be seen again.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 11, 2007, 01:41:54 PM
I'd say he's been the closest thing we've had to a centre half-forward since Shane Mulholland went to Friar Tuck's, never to be seen again.
:D :D
down need to take coulter out off full forward line, f##king wasted in there. i gaurentee if he played in half forward he would score alot more and play alot better.
I agree that Coulter should come out of the full forward line.
I'd put him on the bench though.
id be inclined to agree.
bottom line for me is -
- Ronan Murtagh Experiment at wing half failed yesterday - HE IS A FORWARD. - Nightmare opening 20 and marginally better throughout.
- Coulter's talent is unquestionable but we simply are not getting enough out of him, for supposedly one of the deadliest finsihers in the game he looked like he couldnt round a man yesterday, he couldnt take simple score taking options and generally failed (again) to do what he is in there to do - cause the defence endless headaches.
- Rooney is not and wont be a full back, its isnt fair on him to play him there and expect results.
- James Mc Govern has now made too many mistakes in his county senior career to date to be considered ahead of Kearney etc for the next game - simply based on his error count he should be dropped.
- Why have we got defenders on the line who either will never be used and are thus starved of club football, or are just there to pick splinters out of their arse..its a blatant vte of no confidence on managers behalf not givin any of them a runout - mcguigan got roasted throughout (and he wasnt the only one) and yet he wasnt subbed.
- Murphy again ran himself into the ground workin his butt off and gave an immense dieplay of work rate in the 1st half, but he clearly tired and faded in 2nd half, which in turn allowed finlay to effectively win the game for monaghan in last 10 mins, why wasnt murphy replaced for fresh legs or someone to keep tabs on finlay.
- Grant & Clarke both sound enough and kept it quite together at the back when all else was crumbling around them.
to say its disappointing is an understatement. Its gut wrenching, and the only thing to do is get back at it again and bounce back, this team now needs to show some f**kin bottle and react in a positive way. And if (as is the habit with a select few) they decide the best way to do this is go on beer for 3 days then unfortunately we are going to be re visiting Sligo-esque games again.
i have faith in management and i do believe that things are better than what they were under o rourke but as i said before its now that we can really see how far ths particular bunch of players have come.
brick, this the same ronan murtagh who is a better half back than aaron kernan :D
Quote from: Fear Boirche on June 11, 2007, 01:18:12 PM
Quotethe monaghan defenders were getting stuck into our forwards throughout the whole game and in particular they obviously had a game plan to rough up benny.......
A plan which involved walking over to him, bumping into him and then throwing themselves to the ground clutching their faces. Is that the type of tactics you want Down employing?
Now your reply Fear i find is stupid, Catch yourself on.. I think i was stating the obvious that the Down defenders were not as aggressive or even as cute as their Monaghan counterparts...
Cavanmaniac and the wobbler have it about right.
We are a fair to middlin team who have played 3 games against fair to middlin teams.A couple of points :
Our defenders are good ,honest footballers and I have serious respect for the effort and pride they put into the shirt.They are all young ( Cole the oldest at 26) and learning the game. They aren't paid and don't need anonymous posters calling them shit ( I see Cloc Mor has gone quiet since he was put in his place).Apart from the much critisized , and badly missed , Dan Mc Cartan, they are more creative than destructive and we probably need a balance of a few DJ/Brian Burns/Conor Deegan/Tommy Mc Govern/Mark Turley/Tom O'Hare/Leo Murphy types. But where are they ?I see plenty of football and don't know of any useful defender who has not been given a chance. Ronan Murtagh is an excellent half-back and should remain. Murphy or Doyle at CHB, Dee Raffery at corner -back and I still believe Colgan will come good, but not this year.
Second point is our game plan. Sexton,Hughes and Mc Govern spent more time in our half than in theirs- the excellent Aidan Carr not far behind-again, I'm with Cavanmaniac. Hanratty's second goal came from panic - players get tired in that heat and rational thought goes out the window- that's what your man Keilty preaches at the SAQ training.I think Down were caught by a very dodgey free-kick, moved forward quickly, and Rory Woods, fresh on, exploited it to set up the goal.We need to put teams away but the basic game plan is sound.
The third issue is Benny. A rare talent but we are not getting the right return.I would keep him in the corner but vary the attack more- the Armagh diagonal ball could be effective but we need Daniel in the other corner. Packy is still our best bet at FF but he is still only 19. Kearney and Mc Comiskey bring added dimensions- as much as it pains me to say it , I don't think Mickey Walsh does any more. Ross is a loyal man though ( so much for the anti-Bridge bias) and apart from the return of Doyle/Ambrose/Rafferty, I don't see many changes for the qualifiers. And I hope the posters will travel wherever to support them, just as Cavan and Monaghan supporters do through thick and thin.
Dont see how you work out I was 'put in my place.' I have nothing more to add and can't be bothered arguing. The comment about them being shit was nothing personal but my appraisal of their performances yeaterday.
Quote from: Caitlin on June 11, 2007, 09:22:31 PM
And I hope the posters will travel wherever to support them, just as Cavan supporters do through thick and thin.
That'd be thin and thinner there Caitlin...starvation diet and God knows when we'll be fed next :(
Quote from: Mid Mon on June 11, 2007, 12:17:07 PM
QuoteFinlays final point was the widest point I have ever seen,
Until the ball began to curl back in and sail between the posts
I'm very surprised that you were fit to see that!!
Quote from: Caitlin on June 11, 2007, 09:22:31 PM
I don't see many changes for the qualifiers.
Qualifier
Quote from: thebandit on June 12, 2007, 10:47:05 AM
Quote from: Mid Mon on June 11, 2007, 12:17:07 PM
QuoteFinlays final point was the widest point I have ever seen,
Until the ball began to curl back in and sail between the posts
I'm very surprised that you were fit to see that!!
I was in a direct line with jap and the goal, she was a beauty
I wasn't referring to where you were standing!!
i was also exactly in line with him and the posts as he struck it, couldnt have had a better angle really. It was a fine effort but actually curled in too late as it was already wide before it had a chance to split the posts. Near sure.
Copied from Hogan Stand - says it all I think
Down V Monaghan
I would like to echo the comments made by other Monaghan supporters with regard to the sporting nature of the Down support on Sunday. I found you to be both knowlegable and fair in your assesment of the match on Sunday. Having had the (dis)pleasure of watching a number of championship matches with your near neighbours in orange over the last few years, where there have been wins and losses for both sides as well as draws I have to admit the difference between two sets of supporters is remarkable. Despite the result the Down support did not whinge abut the the pitch, Monaghan being from the South so the referee being biased in their favour, Monagahan playing dirty when no one in an orange shirt could possibly foul etc etc etc all of which I have had to listen too for the last few years. Instead, while supporting their team passionatley, the Down support took the result on the chin and shook hands at the end of the day. As they say form is tempoary, class is permanent, so no need to do to much soul searching after Sunday, the red and black will be back in due course, when some of our more noisy neighbours will no doubt be a lot quieter.
North Country Boy , Ireland , 12/06/2007 at 11:49
The Down Crowd are a different class altogether,
i lost count on how many Down fans came up to shake my hand after the Game in Newry,saying hardluck and wishing us the best in the qualifiers.
You just dont get that from other teams in Ulster.
A Credit to their county.
Quote from: thebandit on June 12, 2007, 12:35:13 PM
I wasn't referring to where you were standing!!
Didn't think so!
Just gonna pipe in with my thoughts!
The defence obviously isn't up for the job but with Dee Raff, Ambrose and Liam Doyle coming back then maybe they'll act as cover hopefully. What about giving some players on the bench a chance, Dee Cunningham, Owie Henry?
Aidan Carr gets too much stick just because he's the managrs son, he should have changed his name like Ryan Naysmith did in Dream Team when his da was the manager to keep the stick away from him. Seriouly though, he's an excellent free taker and a brilliant distributor of the ball, especially with the foot in days where players either fist it off or just punt it aimlessly. He'll just needa work on his shooting from play which will come with confidence and age, still only 22 like.
The forwards are good, McGovern gets too much stick as well, he works his socks off every game.
Danny Huges was AWOL though in the last game. enny and Paki both worked hard.
Defence: McCartan & Mc Guigan are loively lads but nowhere near county standard. Rooney did well at helf back in the league so why stick him in a position he cant play. Grant and Clarke have both gone off the boil this last couple oy years. Murtagh is bit loose in ways but makes up for it with overall contribution. Apart from Scullion Rafferty and maybe Doyle we need to fin a coupl of new corner backs with tenacity and speed - URGENT!!
Midfield: Good and getting better,
Forwards: Somebody needs to wise up and stop playing Coulter so close to his own men, Give him the space preferably at half forard to roast his marker(s) - and to work a bit more. Where has Hughes confidence gone - get him shooting. Good to see Walsh looking fit - hope he lasts. Kearney has earned a start. Carr is worth perservering with but not in central role where he doesnt forage for breaking ball - an aspect where we failed badly on Sunday. Packie might be more of a man to come into a game and worth holding on to. Try Mc Govern at full and take Benny out.
But OH OH what a defence!