'We were unfair on managers' - Mayo star regrets player revolt'
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/we-were-unfair-on-managers-mayo-star-regrets-player-revolt-35274707.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/we-were-unfair-on-managers-mayo-star-regrets-player-revolt-35274707.html)
You've got to admire the bravery of Tom, dig from New York 12 months after the fact.
Nonsense.
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
None of us were inside the camp so we don't know.
The players made their decision (including Tom Cunniffe), and I would trust their judgement on that one - they did it out of a desire to better their chances of winning the AI. It's done and dusted for the past year, the best that can be said is at least Cunniffe said it in December during the off-season.
Were the team better in 2015 or 2016 in your opinion?
Or did the change in management have a negligible effect.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
Were the team better in 2015 or 2016 in your opinion?
Or did the change in management have a negligible effect.
Tactically better in 2016 anyway, although they didn't seem to be playing any better individually (which could be a worry).
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
They don't have anyone that can kick a point off the weak foot.
They should work on that.
Barney McAleenan talking to Mickey Linden about 4 mins 30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM05noFIJ1g
Mickey scored a point off his weak side when they put Meath to the sword in 1991.
If this was fixed years ago Mayo might have won a few all Irelands recently
The Dubs are only marginally better than them
Ochón agus ochón ó
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
Were the team better in 2015 or 2016 in your opinion?
Or did the change in management have a negligible effect.
As an outsider looking in, my view is that for the vast majority of 2016, Mayo weren't a better team than they were in 2015 and were probably worse.
The difference is that in 2016 they got a handier draw and built up momentum in the back door. They got Tipperary in the semi-final in 2016 which was far easier than having to play Dublin at that stage in 2015.
The only really comparable pre-All-Ireland final games were the quarter-finals against Donegal in 2015 and Tyrone in 2016. Mayo made light work of Donegal but probably should have lost to Tyrone, for once they got lucky in a big game.
Holmes and Connelly were the ones to introduce a sweeper, not Rochford. My recollection is that Barry Moran played that role against Donegal in 2015 and David Drake played the role against Dublin in the 2015 draw.
Of course you can also compare how Mayo did against Dublin in the two 2015 semi-finals as against the two 2016 finals.
Here there isn't as much of a difference as people think. Mayo could easily have won any of those four games, but didn't win any.
The stats from the 2015 draw show Mayo had the chances to win it. Some may say they had to mount a spectacular late comeback to draw, but Dublin being seven points up in the first place was a false scoreline. Dublin got a penalty which shouldn't have been awarded (the foul was outside the penalty area) and Mayo threw away a load of chances in the third quarter when they gap was a very narrow one. And really they should have pushed on and killed Dublin off when they got level, but seemed happier to just not lose the game rather than go balls out for the win.
A similar story to when they got level with seven minutes to go in the 2016 drawn final, really.
In the 2015 replay they were four points up with 15 minutes of normal time left. That's a winning position and a better one than any they've ever had against a Jim Gavin-managed Dublin team. And then the red mist descended on them. One hates to blame personal errors, but personal errors by the same player had a huge impact on both the 2015 and 2016 replay results.
One would also have to say that the 2015 Dublin team were better than the 2016 version.
So I don't see a huge difference in Mayo's performances against Dublin in 2016 compared to what they produced in 2015, really.
The main difference is that the sweeper system seemed a bit more rehearsed and a bit more effective this year. But it still didn't stop Cormac Costello scoring all those points.
Quote from: Tubberman on December 07, 2016, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
Were the team better in 2015 or 2016 in your opinion?
Or did the change in management have a negligible effect.
Tactically better in 2016 anyway, although they didn't seem to be playing any better individually (which could be a worry).
I've heard this a lot and I'm not sure what evidence there is to support the claim.
As was said above re the handy draw, getting Tipp in a semi-final is as close to a bye into the final you're going to get in this day and age.
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 11:39:21 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 07, 2016, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
Were the team better in 2015 or 2016 in your opinion?
Or did the change in management have a negligible effect.
Tactically better in 2016 anyway, although they didn't seem to be playing any better individually (which could be a worry).
I've heard this a lot and I'm not sure what evidence there is to support the claim.
As was said above re the handy draw, getting Tipp in a semi-final is as close to a bye into the final you're going to get in this day and age.
Unbelievable arrogance.
Mayo had no choice once they lost to Galway.
I would say a lot of people in the county were ready to give up after that match. The lads here were already emotionally exhausted in 2014.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
Is this "interview" just a rehash (by that hack) of things said last year
"I would never do anything to upset things but I just want to be fair to Pat and Noel. They went through a lot in the last year and they shouldn't have had to," said Cunniffe.
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
It was earlier than the 10 minute mark IIRC and who scored the next point after James McCarthy's?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
It was earlier than the 10 minute mark IIRC and who scored the next point after James McCarthy's?
you are correct. Paddy Durcan scored after that?
Whatever time it was that Keegan dropped his shot short, I distinctly remember the general reaction in my living room was, "Uh oh".
It wasn't that he missed a bread and butter kick, it was the fact that he so clearly tightened up, which indicated a fear of losing instead of a desire to win.
Keegan is one of the leaders and standard-bearers on that team so it was different than say a sub coming on and doing the same.
I think it killed Mayo's momentum, regardless of who got the next couple of scores.
Durcan scored to put Mayo 4 up before McCarthy brought it back to 3. The the roof came in. Keegan dropped it short between these two points. I think he did something similar in 2013?
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:44:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
It was earlier than the 10 minute mark IIRC and who scored the next point after James McCarthy's?
you are correct. Paddy Durcan scored after that?
That's right so Mayo were still 4 points to the good 20 minutes into the second half yet they lost by 7, an 11 point swing. What happened in the last 15 minutes is where the match was lost, not a kick dropped short at the start of the half. That kick has assumed legendary status, it's not responsible for an 11 point swing.
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
Reads like a man carrying a lot of guilt for his part in this sorry episode. I think what the players did was rotten and given they did not win Sam despite an easy route to the final last year shows that it did not work out. Personally I don't think Mayo will win Sam and last year was the best chance they will ever get to do it with this group of players. Clearly to prove me wrong the Mayo manager will have to sort out the big shots in the in panel that are calling the shots and anyone close to the thing knows who they are.
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:44:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
It was earlier than the 10 minute mark IIRC and who scored the next point after James McCarthy's?
you are correct. Paddy Durcan scored after that?
That's right so Mayo were still 4 points to the good 20 minutes into the second half yet they lost by 7, an 11 point swing. What happened in the last 15 minutes is where the match was lost, not a kick dropped short at the start of the half. That kick has assumed legendary status, it's not responsible for an 11 point swing.
Football isn't an exact science though.
Look at Diarmuid Connolly's missed goal attempt in the first half against Donegal in 2014.
He gets that and Dublin probably go on to win by a cricket score.
He doesn't and the rest is history.
Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
Donegal's performances since 2012 have done no such thing.
Only a team's performances in a particular year are relevant to how they performed in a particular year, and Donegal were as convincing an All-Ireland winning team as there has been over the last decade, and certainly the most convincing of any so far in the 2010s, more convincing than any of Dublin's. At no stage of that championship season did they look in trouble.
If you want to go into performances since 2012, their win over Dublin in 2014 confirmed them as a team who were good enough to convincingly beat the best around.
Quote from: Itchy on December 07, 2016, 03:29:29 PM
Reads like a man carrying a lot of guilt for his part in this sorry episode. I think what the players did was rotten and given they did not win Sam despite an easy route to the final last year shows that it did not work out. Personally I don't think Mayo will win Sam and last year was the best chance they will ever get to do it with this group of players. Clearly to prove me wrong the Mayo manager will have to sort out the big shots in the in panel that are calling the shots and anyone close to the thing knows who they are.
It's amazing how many lads on here are "close to the thing" ::)
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 07, 2016, 03:52:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 07, 2016, 03:29:29 PM
Reads like a man carrying a lot of guilt for his part in this sorry episode. I think what the players did was rotten and given they did not win Sam despite an easy route to the final last year shows that it did not work out. Personally I don't think Mayo will win Sam and last year was the best chance they will ever get to do it with this group of players. Clearly to prove me wrong the Mayo manager will have to sort out the big shots in the in panel that are calling the shots and anyone close to the thing knows who they are.
It's amazing how many lads on here are "close to the thing" ::)
Well Lad, All I can say is I have family in the mix in Mayo in the club of one of the former managers. Maybe that makes me biased in your eyes, fair enough. I am not going telling tales but I think most people in Mayo know who is calling the shots on the panel. Doesn't bother me one bit either way what Mayo do to resolve it.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 03:37:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:44:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: gammysolo on December 07, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
if Leroy stuck ball over when 5 points up they were on way to victory. Having said that Rochford is a way better manager
That was at the start of the second half, not the turning point despite the common refrain.
Was a good 10-15 minutes into second half. Physiologically it would have lifted Mayo even more. James McCarthy scored a minute later which was the turning point in game. Hennelly not tying his laces didnt help either for first goal. If Mayo got to final and lost would they still called for H&C to step down?
It was earlier than the 10 minute mark IIRC and who scored the next point after James McCarthy's?
you are correct. Paddy Durcan scored after that?
That's right so Mayo were still 4 points to the good 20 minutes into the second half yet they lost by 7, an 11 point swing. What happened in the last 15 minutes is where the match was lost, not a kick dropped short at the start of the half. That kick has assumed legendary status, it's not responsible for an 11 point swing.
Football isn't an exact science though.
Look at Diarmuid Connolly's missed goal attempt in the first half against Donegal in 2014.
He gets that and Dublin probably go on to win by a cricket score.
He doesn't and the rest is history.
Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment.
It mightn't be an exact science but it's still a science. Look at the positions Dublin took their shots from in that match, they were in the main from long range and they were never going to be able to continue with that conversation rate. In fact, they spurned much easier chances in the second half closer to goal. Connolly's missed goal attempt was a moment alright, a bigger one though was the goal they got off a breaking ball in the first half that brought them right back into the match.
Disagree that Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment, it was a moment no doubt but they still had the same commanding lead over 10 minutes later. The final 15 minutes is where the focus should be on.
Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 04:19:54 PM
It mightn't be an exact science but it's still a science. Look at the positions Dublin took their shots from in that match, they were in the main from long range and they were never going to be able to continue with that conversation rate. In fact, they spurned much easier chances in the second half closer to goal. Connolly's missed goal attempt was a moment alright, a bigger one though was the goal they got off a breaking ball in the first half that brought them right back into the match.
Disagree that Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment, it was a moment no doubt but they still had the same commanding lead over 10 minutes later. The final 15 minutes is where the focus should be on.
Dublin scored 17 points in that game.
The goal would have given them extra breathing space.
It's a lot easier to keep pinging a ball over from 40m when you're 6-8 points up.
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.
He's not part of the panel though. So pretty easy to speak up.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.
But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on December 07, 2016, 04:19:54 PM
It mightn't be an exact science but it's still a science. Look at the positions Dublin took their shots from in that match, they were in the main from long range and they were never going to be able to continue with that conversation rate. In fact, they spurned much easier chances in the second half closer to goal. Connolly's missed goal attempt was a moment alright, a bigger one though was the goal they got off a breaking ball in the first half that brought them right back into the match.
Disagree that Keegan's miss was a pivotal moment, it was a moment no doubt but they still had the same commanding lead over 10 minutes later. The final 15 minutes is where the focus should be on.
Dublin scored 17 points in that game.
The goal would have given them extra breathing space.
It's a lot easier to keep pinging a ball over from 40m when you're 6-8 points up.
There's nothing easy about pinging a ball over from 40m. Check out the stats from the game below, they were at 55% conversation rate in the first half. To reach 44% overall their conversation rate plummeted to 33% in the second half. Now that's further than they should have fallen but it shows that there is science to the numbers as they returned to the mean.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYEUPjIIAA89Mk.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYR0xeIgAAK3FH.jpg)
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I'd regard 2014 as the best one. Always had high regard for Cormac Reilly as a referee, and having passed by or been in the Gaelic Grounds a few times in recent years I can only appreciate how worthy a venue it is for the big occasions.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.
Ah, Jaysus, Syf, you're in flying form today!
Not bad coming from a county that's in the Guinness Book of Records when it comes to shafting managers! In no particular order;
Tommy Carr, John Evans, John Maughan. Fergie x2 and right now Kevin McStay is a dead man walking.
Not bad, not bad at all. ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 07, 2016, 06:06:50 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
Turbo Tom is the only one of the panel to have the balls to break the omertà. The mangers last year did less wrong than Rochford did this year. The Mayo panel got what they deserved this season.
Ah, Jaysus, Syf, you're in flying form today!
Not bad coming from a county that's in the Guinness Book of Records when it comes to shafting managers! In no particular order;
Tommy Carr, John Evans, John Maughan. Fergie x2 and right now Kevin McStay is a dead man walking.
Not bad, not bad at all. ;D
John Maughan shafted the players, not the players shalfting him.
That after a Rochford basically costing Mayo an AI by deciding to drop his All-Star keeper for the final replay there has been no mumours of disquiet really draws into focus what happened last year. We have to take our medicine when we fûck up - ye should learn to do the same.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 07, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.
But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.
Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn't the players who made H&C's position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O'Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we've been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I'm afraid is history.
We'll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players' unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There's no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn't have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 07, 2016, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 07, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.
But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.
Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn’t the players who made H&C’s position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O’Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we’ve been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I’m afraid is history.
We’ll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players’ unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There’s no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn’t have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob.
The majority of the Mayo panel let it be known that they didn't want a management team that included Liam McHale and McStay refused to do the job without McHale, the county board then had to go with option B of Pat and Noel.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Weaker than Kerry version 2014?
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
Committment is easy when you're winning. Blaming yourself rather than others when it goes wrong takes more character.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 07, 2016, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 07, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
I said it last year when Mayo players threatened a strike that it wasn't their management who kept aimlessly pumping balls up to a double-marked AOS when there was options running off the ball, and that if a few more of them had leadership qualities they wouldn't need a manager at all.
But the reality is that if a team isn't behind their manager then it's going nowhere - so moving the management along one way or another simply had to happen. As Cunniffe says it wasn't fair and it could have been handled better. But it had to happen.
Sure enough, Cunniffe is right; things should have been handled better, a lot better. The problem is that most commentators and bar stool Brollys seem to forget that it wasn't the players who made H&C's position untenable.
Following a panel meeting, a letter was drafted for presentation to the County Board and IIRC, Higgins and O'Connor were to be the spokesmen at that meeting. From what we've been told, the majority wanted the pair to step down but to do so quietly and without loss of face. However, some b**tard, close to the County Board apparently, chose to leak the contents of the letter and the rest I'm afraid is history.
We'll never know what the outcome of the meeting proposed by the players would have been but the only option open to Pat and Noel was to step down.
All the critics of the Mayo panel chose to forget that H&C took on the gig under the most unusual circumstances. Both were approached and offered the position but both turned it down.
It seems the County Board were determined to block Kevin McStay at all costs and turned to Pat and Noel and asked them to take on joint managership of the team. Whatever happened behind close doors is unknown but the chairman was obliged to step down and another board delegate resigned on principle.
It certainly the most auspicious start to a campaign that anyone would wish for.
The two men were under pressure from the start as they took on the job and the CB took the opportunity to slash costs by cutting back on the background staff and paring back on expenses on petty things like the provision of food after training sessions.
No fault of Pateen or Noel but it added to players' unease.
It seems the shit really hit the fan when it turned out that the pair had left their game plans behind in their hotel for the first semi.
(Dunno why anyone would need a written plan of campaign to suss what was going wrong in that game but it seems the players felt they could/should have won if tactics on the sideline had been handled better.)
There's no point really in digging up the controversy again; a lot of good people got drawn inadvertently into a mediafest of pure speculation and hearsay.
A lot of people wouldn't have been hurt if that bollix who leaked the letter got run over by a horse cart or the likes before opening his (her?) big, fat gob.
That sounds like classic pub-talk.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
There have rarely been more impressive champions in an individual year than Donegal in 2012.
Seven games, seven wins, and against serious opposition, too - Cavan, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo. And they were seven convincing wins.
And nobody should be in any doubt they'd have beaten Dublin in 2012 either - they proved that in 2014 when despite not being the same force they were two years previously they beat a far superior Dublin team to 2012 all ends up.
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
No, Cork 2010 were worse, had that All Ireland handed to them.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 07, 2016, 10:51:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
No, Cork 2010 were worse, had that All Ireland handed to them.
100%.
Cork and the Turtle only one that one because they had a blessed run at the AI - us with stars in our eyes led them with 52 minutes on the clock, then Down in an AI final. It was like the Graham Canty retirement tour.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 07, 2016, 10:51:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
No, Cork 2010 were worse, had that All Ireland handed to them.
They were the worst champions I've seen.
In 09 they were very good though, should have won it that year
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
There have rarely been more impressive champions in an individual year than Donegal in 2012.
Seven games, seven wins, and against serious opposition, too - Cavan, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo. And they were seven convincing wins.
And nobody should be in any doubt they'd have beaten Dublin in 2012 either - they proved that in 2014 when despite not being the same force they were two years previously they beat a far superior Dublin team to 2012 all ends up.
Would have to agree.
By far and away the best team in the country that year.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
There have rarely been more impressive champions in an individual year than Donegal in 2012.
Seven games, seven wins, and against serious opposition, too - Cavan, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo. And they were seven convincing wins.
And nobody should be in any doubt they'd have beaten Dublin in 2012 either - they proved that in 2014 when despite not being the same force they were two years previously they beat a far superior Dublin team to 2012 all ends up.
Would have to agree.
By far and away the best team in the country that year.
Mayo had a nightmare start and showed for the rest of the game and since that Mcguinness' system was a gimmick esp when he did not have an even quality of player all around the Pitch . probably McGuinness finest achievement was to win a final with 10 players who were mediocre at best and by the following year they really were a busted flush. much of that was to do with 2012 being Murphys one really exceptional year, while not the one man team that say Tyrone were with Peter canavan they were not too far off it
Quote from: rosnarun on December 08, 2016, 09:44:12 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
There have rarely been more impressive champions in an individual year than Donegal in 2012.
Seven games, seven wins, and against serious opposition, too - Cavan, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo. And they were seven convincing wins.
And nobody should be in any doubt they'd have beaten Dublin in 2012 either - they proved that in 2014 when despite not being the same force they were two years previously they beat a far superior Dublin team to 2012 all ends up.
Would have to agree.
By far and away the best team in the country that year.
Mayo had a nightmare start and showed for the rest of the game and since that Mcguinness' system was a gimmick esp when he did not have an even quality of player all around the Pitch . probably McGuinness finest achievement was to win a final with 10 players who were mediocre at best and by the following year they really were a busted flush. much of that was to do with 2012 being Murphys one really exceptional year, while not the one man team that say Tyrone were with Peter canavan they were not too far off it
Totally disagree with that assessment of Donegal though if McGuinness had managed Mayo we wouldn't be seeing folk talking about "the curse" on Countdown on Channel 4!
Poor indiana is still having nightmares about 2011 i think.
That was a great Donegal team in 2012. Their performances were as good as any you'd see but I think they trained so much the bodies of the same guys couldn't go through it again without several breaking. Mayo were the only team to really give them a game but the early goals killed them.
Yeah, a good few of that Donegal team had a fair few miles on the clock before McGuinness came along.
Very hard to maintain that level of physical intensity over a few seasons.
Totally disagree with that assessment of Donegal though if McGuinness had managed Mayo we wouldn't be seeing folk talking about "the curse" on Countdown on Channel 4!
[/quote]
If McGuinness had managed Mayo, and had the same drive to win an All Ireland with them as he had with his native county, there is very little doubt that he would have taken them over the line.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 08, 2016, 09:44:12 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 07, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 07, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on December 07, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
2012 was bay far and away the best chance so far mayo had of winning an all ireland donegals peformances since have shown that .
but i dont think failure to win sam was the reason H&C were removed , it was more down to the fact the players did not like the way they went about their business and the attitude towards the players and Training in general . and i think that was more H than C.
That's a bold statement. There have been so many this is a tough call. 2013 and 2016 (draw) saw two of Dublin's worst performances of recent times. Maybe that was down to Mayo but regardless, Dublin were really there for the taking both days. Fat Larry blazing wide in '89. Pat Holmes left on Maurice in '97. My personal favourite though is 1996. Meath were a really raw outfit and only hung on in there through pure guts and determination. Ball bouncing over the bar, Liam McHale beating up fresh air.....
I don't think it's even open for debate that 1996 was the best chance Mayo had to winning the All Ireland. Donegal 2012 for me weren't going to get beaten by any team, they put all into that year and were arguably the most impressive winner of the last decade.
That donegal team were the weakest champions in the last decade
Nonsense. The most determined and focused group of champions of the last decade in my opinion and all of their All Ireland series games was good games to watch unlike some of the recent winners games.
There have rarely been more impressive champions in an individual year than Donegal in 2012.
Seven games, seven wins, and against serious opposition, too - Cavan, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo. And they were seven convincing wins.
And nobody should be in any doubt they'd have beaten Dublin in 2012 either - they proved that in 2014 when despite not being the same force they were two years previously they beat a far superior Dublin team to 2012 all ends up.
Would have to agree.
By far and away the best team in the country that year.
Mayo had a nightmare start and showed for the rest of the game and since that Mcguinness' system was a gimmick esp when he did not have an even quality of player all around the Pitch . probably McGuinness finest achievement was to win a final with 10 players who were mediocre at best and by the following year they really were a busted flush. much of that was to do with 2012 being Murphys one really exceptional year, while not the one man team that say Tyrone were with Peter canavan they were not too far off it
this bit belongs in the 'corny one for Friday' thread !
rosnarun you need to check that memory. Murphy wasn't even Donegal's best player that year never mind being a one man team. Lacey got POTY.
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2016, 11:22:17 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
They don't have anyone that can kick a point off the weak foot.
They should work on that.
Barney McAleenan talking to Mickey Linden about 4 mins 30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM05noFIJ1g
Mickey scored a point off his weak side when they put Meath to the sword in 1991.
If this was fixed years ago Mayo might have won a few all Irelands recently
The Dubs are only marginally better than them
Ochón agus ochón ó
Cillian scores 2-2 off the left in this montage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wvl0HHV5b0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wvl0HHV5b0)
Maybe you should concentrate on winning a match in Croker with any feet.
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:22:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2016, 11:22:17 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 07, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
What was so bad about the Holmes & Connelly regime though?
I think it's reasonable enough for Cunniffe to suggest that maybe the issues could have been worked out without going straight for the nuclear option.
They don't have anyone that can kick a point off the weak foot.
They should work on that.
Barney McAleenan talking to Mickey Linden about 4 mins 30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM05noFIJ1g
Mickey scored a point off his weak side when they put Meath to the sword in 1991.
If this was fixed years ago Mayo might have won a few all Irelands recently
The Dubs are only marginally better than them
Ochón agus ochón ó
Cillian scores 2-2 off the left in this montage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wvl0HHV5b0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wvl0HHV5b0)
Maybe you should concentrate on winning a match in Croker with any feet.
I remember the day O'Connor got the hat trick in the Connacht final..
..against London.
I remember the day he got a hatrick in Croker against the All-Ireland Champions.
Pretty crap dig Syf ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: muppet on December 11, 2016, 04:31:15 PM
I remember the day he got a hatrick in Croker against the All-Ireland Champions.
Pretty crap dig Syf ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's mad that after six seasons now of neutrals telling ye COC doesn't offer enough from play and that he's too easily marked out of games ye still think he's a cross between Gooch and Ciaran Mc. He's the second best free-taker in Ireland behind Conor McManus, but he was outplayed this year by Andy Moran, and Andy is no spring chicken.
Who was the last Rossie to score a hatrick in Croker against the All-Ireland Champions?
Is this a Ballaghaderreen trick-question?
Quote from: Jinxy on December 11, 2016, 05:05:21 PM
Is this a Ballaghaderreen trick-question?
I see that Westmeath want to acquire a part of West Athlone: http://www.thejournal.ie/roscommon-2535750-Jan2016/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/roscommon-2535750-Jan2016/)
I don't blame West Athlone. :D
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
More like forcibly retired on the biggest stage of them all.
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
More like forcibly retired on the biggest stage of them all.
He was at a squad fitness assessment in the last couple of weeks, so I doubt that's the case.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
I hope to God he does because we'll be truly fuckt without him. Casting no aspersions on Bob but he's not in the same class. I just wonder if the news we're expecting has anything to do with Stephen Rochford's plans for next season.
With any luck, there will be damn all further revelations unless the frigger who leaked the contents of the players' letter to the CB is outed. Tarring and feathering would be in order here.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
I hope to God he does because we'll be truly fuckt without him. Casting no aspersions on Bob but he's not in the same class. I just wonder if the news we're expecting has anything to do with Stephen Rochford's plans for next season.
With any luck, there will be damn all further revelations unless the frigger who leaked the contents of the players' letter to the CB is outed. Tarring and feathering would be in order here.
Ya what? Are ye Al-Qaeda now or something? A players' letter to the CB is laughable and rightly their politicking was revealed. Ye fecked the two lads over last year and this year the lad ye chose to replace them fecked ye over in the AI final. Poetry.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
I hope to God he does because we'll be truly fuckt without him. Casting no aspersions on Bob but he's not in the same class. I just wonder if the news we're expecting has anything to do with Stephen Rochford's plans for next season.
With any luck, there will be damn all further revelations unless the frigger who leaked the contents of the players' letter to the CB is outed. Tarring and feathering would be in order here.
Nothing to do with plans for next seasons. More recriminations if my source is on the money.
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2016, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
I hope to God he does because we'll be truly fuckt without him. Casting no aspersions on Bob but he's not in the same class. I just wonder if the news we're expecting has anything to do with Stephen Rochford's plans for next season.
With any luck, there will be damn all further revelations unless the frigger who leaked the contents of the players' letter to the CB is outed. Tarring and feathering would be in order here.
Ya what? Are ye Al-Qaeda now or something? A players' letter to the CB is laughable and rightly their politicking was revealed. Ye fecked the two lads over last year and this year the lad ye chose to replace them fecked ye over in the AI final. Poetry.
Jeez Syf but you truly are an awful plonker.The old saying of better to be thought of as a fool than speaking out and removing all doubt ,applies to you
Quote from: maigheo on December 12, 2016, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2016, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 11, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 11, 2016, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 07, 2016, 02:53:26 PM
Jesus wept! We are not back here again. I'm sure H & C won't thank Cunniffe for his latest thoughts on the matter going public. Or anyone else in Mayo for that matter. It happened, people got hurt, people moved on.
(http://latestbloomer.uskoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/move-along-nothing-to-see-here-4.png)
I'm hearing there is more fall-out on the way this week.
David Clarke walking away from county football?
No. He's staying.
I hope to God he does because we'll be truly fuckt without him. Casting no aspersions on Bob but he's not in the same class. I just wonder if the news we're expecting has anything to do with Stephen Rochford's plans for next season.
With any luck, there will be damn all further revelations unless the frigger who leaked the contents of the players' letter to the CB is outed. Tarring and feathering would be in order here.
Ya what? Are ye Al-Qaeda now or something? A players' letter to the CB is laughable and rightly their politicking was revealed. Ye fecked the two lads over last year and this year the lad ye chose to replace them fecked ye over in the AI final. Poetry.
Jeez Syf but you truly are an awful plonker.The old saying of better to be thought of as a fool than speaking out and removing all doubt ,applies to you
Nothing I said was even remotely incorrect. Ad hominem is the last refuge of a losing man.
Why do you let this concern you? It shouldn't concern you.
Mayo carried Aidan o Se in the finals. He played on a totally different wavelength to the team. After this year I dont think he will make it. Needs replaced.
Mayo were extraordinarily unlucky in the first final. Not sure they could have done any more - bar not kicking the ball into their own net.
Quote from: Hound on December 13, 2016, 09:08:29 AM
Mayo were extraordinarily unlucky in the first final. Not sure they could have done any more - bar not kicking the ball into their own net.
'Unlucky' isn't the common theme with Mayo in AI finals. If the grey matter was right they'd probably have won three or four AIs since '89.
Quote from: Syferus on December 13, 2016, 09:43:05 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 13, 2016, 09:08:29 AM
Mayo were extraordinarily unlucky in the first final. Not sure they could have done any more - bar not kicking the ball into their own net.
'Unlucky' isn't the common theme with Mayo in AI finals. If the grey matter was right they'd probably have won three or four AIs since '89.
You're the only man for the job syferus