GAA Discussion Paper: Duffy aims axe at U21FC
03 November 2015
The Discussion Paper on Overtraining and Burnout, and fixturesParaic Duffy has recommended discontinuing the U21 football championship in a bid to end player burnout.
If the Monaghan man's bold new proposals are rubber-stamped, the minor intercounty grade will also be changed from U18 to U17.
The director general of the GAA launched a discussion paper on Player Overtraining and Burnout and the GAA Fixtures Calendar at Croke Park this morning, listing a number of proposals that could ease the increasing pressure on intercounty players at the younger end of the scale.
The two main concerns being addressed are the pressure being placed on players between the ages of 17 and 21 "who are being asked to train too much, to play too many matches for too many teams and are afforded too little time for rest and recovery" and the absence of a "fair, evenly-distributed and planned schedule of club matches throughout the year due to the scheduling of inter-county fixtures".
The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:
1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.
2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.
3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.
4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.
5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.
6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.
9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.
10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.
11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.
How does this help club football/hurling. More intercounty matches, no detail in bringing All Ireland semi finals forward as well as the final to increase time for the clubs. Where is the consideration for developing players from 17 to 22, never mind the notion of providing games for this age group who can't make the res or sen team (although I do acknowledge this this is pitched at county level, and counties can run their won internal compo. Our u21 compo has kept a number of lads playing that otherwise would have been lost to the club.) This stinks as an agenda to promote intercounty football/hurling
Scraping U21 totally will never pass.
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
You HAVE just made that up, u19 is not mentioned in the discussion paper.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
I think this whole idea is arseways.
There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.
But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.
The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
I think this whole idea is arseways.
There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.
But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.
The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.
+1 muppet
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:50:00 PM
You HAVE just made that up, u19 is not mentioned in the discussion paper.
I saw it elsewhere shawshank. Apologies if I'm wrong.
You are correct shawshank. Apologies. In fact he outright recommends against an U19 competition. but confusingly, I think it's included in his illustrated calendar!
QuoteAn U-19 football championship?
If, on foot of the above proposals, the
Association decides to discontinue the U-21
football championship, then the possibility
of replacing it with an U-19 championship,
as part of the development of elite players
between the ages of 17 and 21, may well receive
renewed attention. It can be argued that an
U-19 football championship would provide an
attractive midweek competition at the peak of
the summer. However, it also raises a question:
can an U-19 championship, beginning in the
last week of June, be played without having a
negative impact on adult club fixtures? Given
that an U-19 competition would be played on a
knockout basis, that its provincial finals would be
completed by the end of July, and that it would
be played at the same time as the provincial
championships and All-Ireland Qualifiers (i.e.
when few club championship games are played),
it can be argued that it would have little negative
impact. However, all of the players on an U-19
inter-county team would be playing on club
adult teams, and many would also have played
on second- and third-level teams earlier in the
year. Given the level of overtraining and the time
spent on the preparation of underage teams,
the dangers of simply replacing one competition
with another are clear. While, for the purposes
of illustration, provision has been made for
such a championship in the calendar for 2018
(Appendix 3), the needs of club players must take
precedence over elite inter-county players.
On balance, I believe that the potential
disadvantages of an U-19 competition outweigh
any potential advantages it may appear to offer.
I blame Coilin for giving me the wrong info :)
The document is here by the way http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/fixtures_and_results/GAA%20Discussion%20Paper%2003_11_2015.pdf (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/fixtures_and_results/GAA%20Discussion%20Paper%2003_11_2015.pdf)
If number 9 was made no 1. priority and was changed to play to a conclusion, it would resolve all fixtures issues for clubs and counties in an instant. Schedules could be drawn up in January, and no reason to have a daft three to four weeks between all-Ireland semi-finals etc. All-Irelands could be done by first Sunday in September.
The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:
1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.
2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.
3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.
4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.
5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.
6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.
9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.
10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.
11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.If No 9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches was made No 1 priority, and make it play to a conclusion, then all schedules for clubs and counties could be made in January. Pretty simple when you think of it.
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
I think this whole idea is arseways.
There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.
But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.
The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.
Goes back to what we were discussing on the coaches thread, Ego. Coaches have egos and coaches want to win.
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:31:43 PM
GAA Discussion Paper: Duffy aims axe at U21FC
03 November 2015
The Discussion Paper on Overtraining and Burnout, and fixturesParaic Duffy has recommended discontinuing the U21 football championship in a bid to end player burnout.
If the Monaghan man's bold new proposals are rubber-stamped, the minor intercounty grade will also be changed from U18 to U17.
The director general of the GAA launched a discussion paper on Player Overtraining and Burnout and the GAA Fixtures Calendar at Croke Park this morning, listing a number of proposals that could ease the increasing pressure on intercounty players at the younger end of the scale.
The two main concerns being addressed are the pressure being placed on players between the ages of 17 and 21 "who are being asked to train too much, to play too many matches for too many teams and are afforded too little time for rest and recovery" and the absence of a "fair, evenly-distributed and planned schedule of club matches throughout the year due to the scheduling of inter-county fixtures".
The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:
1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.
2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.
3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.
4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.
5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.
6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.
9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.
10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.
11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.
How does this help club football/hurling. More intercounty matches, no detail in bringing All Ireland semi finals forward as well as the final to increase time for the clubs. Where is the consideration for developing players from 17 to 22, never mind the notion of providing games for this age group who can't make the res or sen team (although I do acknowledge this this is pitched at county level, and counties can run their won internal compo. Our u21 compo has kept a number of lads playing that otherwise would have been lost to the club.) This stinks as an agenda to promote intercounty football/hurling
Agree with Joe. No. 9 is the key to this. I hear post match interviews with managers moaning that 'our boys deserved a replay there today' and the likes. Never understood where that attitude came from.
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:31:43 PM
GAA Discussion Paper: Duffy aims axe at U21FC
03 November 2015
The Discussion Paper on Overtraining and Burnout, and fixturesParaic Duffy has recommended discontinuing the U21 football championship in a bid to end player burnout.
If the Monaghan man's bold new proposals are rubber-stamped, the minor intercounty grade will also be changed from U18 to U17.
The director general of the GAA launched a discussion paper on Player Overtraining and Burnout and the GAA Fixtures Calendar at Croke Park this morning, listing a number of proposals that could ease the increasing pressure on intercounty players at the younger end of the scale.
The two main concerns being addressed are the pressure being placed on players between the ages of 17 and 21 "who are being asked to train too much, to play too many matches for too many teams and are afforded too little time for rest and recovery" and the absence of a "fair, evenly-distributed and planned schedule of club matches throughout the year due to the scheduling of inter-county fixtures".
The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:
1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.
2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.
3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.
4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.
5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.
6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.
9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.
10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.
11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.
How does this help club football/hurling. More intercounty matches, no detail in bringing All Ireland semi finals forward as well as the final to increase time for the clubs. Where is the consideration for developing players from 17 to 22, never mind the notion of providing games for this age group who can't make the res or sen team (although I do acknowledge this this is pitched at county level, and counties can run their won internal compo. Our u21 compo has kept a number of lads playing that otherwise would have been lost to the club.) This stinks as an agenda to promote intercounty football/hurling
Yep No. 9 is the biggie.
What is the point of Number 10?
IS Number 5 an attempt to eliminate dual players?
A lot of very commendable suggestions in that report.
No mention of the great untouchable - third level competitions.
Is the hurlyU21 to be left to avoid upsetting "hurling man"? Makes no sense keeping one while abolishing the other.
Inter Co JFC and IHC don't serve any real purpose.
Good luck with the compulsory extra time but it is a great and easy solution to a problem.
However I can see Prov Finals and AI semis and Finals being exempted €€€€€€s.
Can we also have both Football and Hurling AI semis played in one weekend each? 1 Sat and 1 Sunday.
Obviously a rule limiting eligibilities for the elite 17-21 group might be needed.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 03:31:59 PM
No mention of the great untouchable - third level competitions.
Is the hurlyU21 to be left to avoid upsetting "hurling man"? Makes no sense keeping one while abolishing the other.
Inter Co JFC and IHC don't serve any real purpose.
Good luck with the compulsory extra time but it is a great and easy solution to a problem.
However I can see Prov Finals and AI semis and Finals being exempted €€€€€€s.
Can we also have both Football and Hurling AI semis played in one weekend each? 1 Sat and 1 Sunday.
Obviously a rule limiting eligibilities for the elite 17-21 group might be needed.
Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.
Playing games to a finish . . . I'd be up for it, but you'd have to have some mechanism to ensure it happen. Penalties? Golden point/goal? First to get two scores? The latter would be my choice, but I can see lots of people objecting.
If you can't separate the teams after 90 minutes, then they should have a big row to determine the winner.
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
I think this whole idea is arseways.
There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.
But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.
The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.
In my opinion this is the key point that seems to be lost on a succession of administrators at various levels. We are using too broad a brush stroke to eliminate the genuine problem of burnout in a small number of elite players.
I have commented before on several occasions , that the simple solution is to have different competitions at club level: A. Top prestige competitions with your county players involved(eg extended championship. B. A less prestigious but valued competition when county players only play if released . This would require games being played in blocks as per the Heineken cup/pro 12 mix in rugby. This works well and the international player management scheme , protects those elite players from burnout/injury, while allowing the majority of players a game every week. We can discuss until we are blue in the face, but unless headquarters shows leadership and demands a player management scheme for our elite, while insisting on weekly games for the rest, the problems and continual tinkering , will continue. Meanwhile we ignore the "elephant in the room" ie that we don't provide an attractive fixture programme for the vast majority of our players
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 03:35:21 PM
Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.
It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.
College league football is currently been played then you have the championships in the new year. College football is surely as much a cause for burn out if not more than the U21 football championship.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 03:35:21 PM
Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.
It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.
sorry, I know that :) I should have said that is their rationale. This is the document's position on it...
"(ii) the U-21 football championship to be
discontinued. (It is not proposed to change
the U-21 hurling championship as its
scheduling does not encourage players to
play on multiple teams simultaneously.) "
So the Galway lads last year were only imagining being on two teams competing for All Irelands at the same time :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 03:35:21 PM
Hurling U21 is being held because it is not run at the same time as the other hurling competitions.
It's played slap bang in the middle of the AI SHC.
sorry, I know that :) I should have said that is their rationale. This is the document's position on it...
"(ii) the U-21 football championship to be
discontinued. (It is not proposed to change
the U-21 hurling championship as its
scheduling does not encourage players to
play on multiple teams simultaneously.) "
So the Galway lads last year were only imagining being on two teams competing for All Irelands at the same time :)
;D
Crazy stuff.
Why not make it U20 but have a rule that you can only be on 1 County panel at a time.
A lad can always move up to Senior when U 20 finished.
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That's the sensible alternative. Use the U21 as a development tool, as it's supposed to be. Leaving a gap from U17 to Senior is way too big of a jump.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Quote from: Zulu on November 03, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Unfortunately not enough people know the madness that is going on. Competitions are one thing but the main problem is the training regime, pure madness that are players are being asked to do. The U21 football championship does not start until March but already several counties have been training two and three time at week from September including 7am starts.
This madness has to stop, pre season training for up to 6 months before a competition starts cannot be right.
Quote from: Zulu on November 03, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.
U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 06:11:14 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 03, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.
U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.
It may also lose its appeal if it is scrapped.
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 06:11:14 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 03, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.
U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.
It may also lose its appeal if it is scrapped.
Once any competition loses its appeal it won't take much convincing to vote it to be scrapped.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Yeah. It's only less daft because the optics of scraping underage IC over the age of 17 in the most popular sport in Ireland because the GAA has created a mangled calendar is so bad. Both ideas non-runners. Sigerson league needs to disappear into oblivion so the Sigerson can be played in Sept-Dec. And a bonus would there would be absolutely no reason for colleges to be in the IC January competitions because their season would already be over.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 06:11:14 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 03, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Why? The correct solution is to tackle the cause of the problem - players being eligible for too many teams. Don't allow dual IC players or multiple IC representation, you play with one IC team in a year and the problem is largely solved. If you did that you could (theoretically) play 16 IC minor, 16 U21, 16 junior, 16 intermediate and 16 senior competitive games in both codes for all teams in 4 months and have 8 months for the clubs. I know you wouldn't play 16 games in 16 weeks but our IC minor and U21 competitions are developmental and there's no reason why we can't offer 6-10 competitive games to these players if that is the only IC team they play for. More IC games and more club games and a very simple solution.
Underage competitions are about developing players however not playing with or against the best U21s e.g U21s on the senior panel would dilute the competition and those non seniors would miss out on playing against the best at their grade.
U21 football championship is a popular grade for supporters it would soon lose it's appeal if the competition was diluted.
I don't think the U21 does much for players as you don't get to play enough competitive games and I think having more lads playing IC U21 while those good enough for senior will only help bring lads on more. In addition, good lads can step up and take more responsibility if senior IC players were unable to play. I think you can have just as good games without a few senior IC players on the pitch.
Quote from: Syferus on November 03, 2015, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Yeah. It's only less daft because the optics of scraping underage IC over the age of 17 in the most popular sport in Ireland because the GAA has created a mangled calendar is so bad. Both ideas non-runners. Sigerson league needs to disappear into oblivion so the Sigerson can be played in Sept-Dec. And a bonus would there would be absolutely no reason for colleges to be in the IC January competitions because their season would already be over.
I would have to agree with Croi here. The problem is that the elite players are playing too much. I do not feel it would reduce the standard. In fact by making younger elite players have fewer commitments at that age group it should make them less prone to injury and may improve the standard at senior level in the long term. Other players who may not have fully developed may get a chance at under 21 and improve too.
I would suggest also that a rule could simply state that an under 21 player cannot play senior football in any year until the under 21 championship is over., or if he plays senior in that time he is ineligible for under 21.
I am not a great fan of the under 17 idea. Most championship matches in Ulster anyway take place when exams are over and any that go to university cannot play Sigerson in first year. A big gap.
Quote from: Throw ball on November 03, 2015, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 03, 2015, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Yeah. It's only less daft because the optics of scraping underage IC over the age of 17 in the most popular sport in Ireland because the GAA has created a mangled calendar is so bad. Both ideas non-runners. Sigerson league needs to disappear into oblivion so the Sigerson can be played in Sept-Dec. And a bonus would there would be absolutely no reason for colleges to be in the IC January competitions because their season would already be over.
I would have to agree with Croi here. The problem is that the elite players are playing too much. I do not feel it would reduce the standard. In fact by making younger elite players have fewer commitments at that age group it should make them less prone to injury and may improve the standard at senior level in the long term. Other players who may not have fully developed may get a chance at under 21 and improve too.
I would suggest also that a rule could simply state that an under 21 player cannot play senior football in any year until the under 21 championship is over., or if he plays senior in that time he is ineligible for under 21.
I am not a great fan of the under 17 idea. Most championship matches in Ulster anyway take place when exams are over and any that go to university cannot play Sigerson in first year. A big gap.
You could have a situation where a U-21 is ineligible as he brought on in a senior game with 5 minutes to go and for the rest of the year he could be warming the senior bench. The same player if allowed to play for his U-21s could be the difference between his side winning or losing.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 03, 2015, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on November 03, 2015, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 03, 2015, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 03, 2015, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 03, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah, I don't get when they'd abolish the football and not the hurling. I don't think they even want to abolish the football, probably their starting position to be negotiated back to any U21 player becoming ineligible once they have played a senior match.
That would only dilute the competition and you are as well to scrap it if the best players aren't allowed to play in it.
Yeah. It's only less daft because the optics of scraping underage IC over the age of 17 in the most popular sport in Ireland because the GAA has created a mangled calendar is so bad. Both ideas non-runners. Sigerson league needs to disappear into oblivion so the Sigerson can be played in Sept-Dec. And a bonus would there would be absolutely no reason for colleges to be in the IC January competitions because their season would already be over.
I would have to agree with Croi here. The problem is that the elite players are playing too much. I do not feel it would reduce the standard. In fact by making younger elite players have fewer commitments at that age group it should make them less prone to injury and may improve the standard at senior level in the long term. Other players who may not have fully developed may get a chance at under 21 and improve too.
I would suggest also that a rule could simply state that an under 21 player cannot play senior football in any year until the under 21 championship is over., or if he plays senior in that time he is ineligible for under 21.
I am not a great fan of the under 17 idea. Most championship matches in Ulster anyway take place when exams are over and any that go to university cannot play Sigerson in first year. A big gap.
You could have a situation where a U-21 is ineligible as he brought on in a senior game with 5 minutes to go and for the rest of the year he could be warming the senior bench. The same player if allowed to play for his U-21s could be the difference between his side winning or losing.
Yep but counties and managers have to start taking some responsibility for looking after their players. It is in their long term interest. Far be it from me to praise Tyrone but I cannot think of too many of their under 21s who played in this year's league during the under 21 championship. It did not stop them playing senior later in the year.
If U21 was to become U20 instead there would be less cross over to Senior.
Be very simple to make it the rule that you can only be on one IC panel at a time.
Anyway most U21 teams play 1 championship game while 24 are gone by end of March so it wouldn't have too much effect.
Was it Captain Obvious said once a competition loses its appeal ( to whom?) it won't be long before they vote to scrap it?
Obviously they've forgotten about the JFC and the Railway Cup ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 07:45:09 PM
If U21 was to become U20 instead there would be less cross over to Senior.
Be very simple to make it the rule that you can only be on one IC panel at a time.
Anyway most U21 teams play 1 championship game while 24 are gone by end of March so it wouldn't have too much effect.
Was it Captain Obvious said once a competition loses its appeal ( to whom?) it won't be long before they vote to scrap it?
Obviously they've forgotten about the JFC and the Railway Cup ;)
Were those competitions ever proposed to be scrapped? P Duffy has been trying to scrap the U21 football championship for years and my point is he is unlikely to get his wish until that competition loses its appeal.
Everyone talking about the elite players and how they can be helped.........what about the Portlaois lads who had to play a county final on a Saturday and a Leinster club game on Sunday? How can the Gaa top brass allow this to happen yet a county player can't play for his club 2 weeks before a championship game or in Armaghs case 2 months!!!!!!!! Do these proposals really mean that situations like this will be averted? How can the power be wrestled back from county managers? Something more radical is required.......OIsin MCConville had some great ideas on this..........
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 03, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2015, 01:36:43 PM
Why scrap the football U-21 Championship, but not the hurling one?
Are hurlers immune to burnout?
I think they scrap the U21 Football, but replace with U19. I don't like this as it is too big a jump from U19 to senior, for development purposes.
I think this whole idea is arseways.
There is certainly a problem with burnout for a small number of elite players. But that is because every 3rd level institution, club and county (all doubled for a dual players) insists it is their right to play their best players without any consideration given to his health or progression.
But behind every elite 19 year old player playing 3 times a week, is a bench full of lads, who train very hard and are eager to play, who are very close to dropping out of the game. That is worse to me.
The solution is to limit the demands on the small number of players that are the issue, not scrap competitions.
Came in to say this. I'd add by saying that if U17 would be last age category before senior football, your average 17 year old is nowhere close to been ready to play senior football or even train at the level club players are. Will be a run of 17 year olds from the game.
Why do we only talk about elite athletes these days. Is it for grants or something?
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2015, 04:48:56 AM
Why do we only talk about elite athletes these days. Is it for grants or something?
They are one side of the coin. We need less games / less training for them but we need more games / less training for the other 98(!)%. In trying to get more games for the 98% we have to look at ensuring the 2% do not end up with increased demands.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 04, 2015, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 04, 2015, 04:48:56 AM
Why do we only talk about elite athletes these days. Is it for grants or something?
They are one side of the coin. We need less games / less training for them but we need more games / less training for the other 98(!)%. In trying to get more games for the 98% we have to look at ensuring the 2% do not end up with increased demands.
The obvious answer is one player / one panel at a time, at intercounty level anyway.
If you look at the FA Youth Cup in soccer, its a very presitigous competition taken seriously by all the clubs - recent winners being Chelsea, ManU, ManC, Arsenal, Liverpool. But also smaller clubs like Norwich and Ipswich have won it and others like Fulham, Sheff Utd, Blackburn have got to finals. But if a young player is a star and makes the first team squad, he's removed from the youth team panel. Because the clubs care for their players (now its completely protecting their investment rather than actually caring, but even if for the wrong reason its the right outcome, i.e. doing their best to prevent player burnout, while letting the rest of the young players get on with playing.)
Removing competitions is not the answer, removing the players at risk is.
In saying that a blanket ban on all senior intercounty players playing U21 would hurt the smaller counties more than bigger counties. So the answer is to play the U21 at the same time as the business end of the senior championship - i.e. start it at around the same time as the provincial finals and go from there, with the rule being if you are on the senior panel, then you're off the U21 panel.
So if Carlow play Dublin at U21, it will likely be a full strength Carlow team against a not so full strength Dublin team - and the same in the other provinces. You will have the "win at all cost" people bleating about unfairness, but the important thing is it takes account of the players. It will benefit the players who come in to replace the senior lads, and in the long run it will benefit the senior players who have to miss out.
I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.
If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.
Quote from: Zulu on November 04, 2015, 09:03:49 AM
I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.
If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.
That's a very small group given the advantages to players in the GAA as a whole
Well exactly. Lads often make those decisions themselves anyway and none of the players involved will be short games anyway.
Is this all being discussed at the same gathering that will discuss the 18 proposals for the restructuring of the inter-county season?
You'd have thought a comprehensive review of all levels would be best.
Quote from: Zulu on November 04, 2015, 09:03:49 AM
I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.
If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.
Exactly , carefully choosing the intercounty age groups eg u17, u20, senior ,and having no crossover and playing the competitions simultaneously , solves alot of problems. If the ic games are played in blocks, it ensures plenty of ic games for all ages . During these blocks the club season goes ahead without ic players, who then return to their clubs for a block of championship games. In jan/feb/March the u17s and u20s could play schools and Colleges games unimpeded. The key point is allowing club games to go ahead without county players, but importantly IC and schools/colleges players return to their clubs for blocks of 8-10 weeks at a time , when clubs have unimpeded access to them for the high prestige competitions. Central council have to impose this structure and a template of regular games for all counties . If IC players are not named on a panel of 22 for games, they must be released to their clubs .
The GAA calendar could look like this for players with intercounty or schools , colleges commitments:
Dec/jan/feb : off season/preseason
March/April :NFL/schools/sigerson
May/June/July: Clubs
July/aug/sept: provincial /AI
Oct/nov: Clubs culminating in AI club finals .
Meanwhile the club season would be as follows, we'll name club matches without IC/schools/colleges players as "league", and matches with full complement, "championship"
Dec/jan/feb: offseason/preseason
March/April : club league matches
May/June : club championship matches
July/aug/sept: club league matches
Oct/nov: club championship matches
December:AI club semis and finals
Central council need to impose a template of games on county fixture makers, ensuring that when players are released back for their club "championship" games, there are plenty of fixtured games for them ie that all clubs remain active up to qfinal stage ( including a relegation championship for those knocked out of championship proper) .
Such a template , based on European rugby , protects and manages the elite player, while ensuring every club player gets regular football. Interestingly it gives more opportunity for fringe club players, who will get plenty of first team football in the "league" fighting to retain their championship place. These are the type of players most likely to dropout under the current system .
It would be possible under this system for a small rural club with plenty of county/colleges players to be a Division 3 "league" side without their county/colleges players, but a competitive senior "championship" side with their full complement
Beggars belief that the brains' trust of the Gaa could come up with this as a solution to 'burnout' in young players.
Don't have any football for them.
In fact try to encourage themn to retire at 17.
That should keep them injury free.
Musta took a long time to come up with that gem.
Good well thought out suggestions by 6th Sam.
Quote from: 6th sam on November 04, 2015, 09:56:48 AM
Quote from: Zulu on November 04, 2015, 09:03:49 AM
I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.
If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.
Exactly , carefully choosing the intercounty age groups eg u17, u20, senior ,and having no crossover and playing the competitions simultaneously , solves alot of problems. If the ic games are played in blocks, it ensures plenty of ic games for all ages . During these blocks the club season goes ahead without ic players, who then return to their clubs for a block of championship games. In jan/feb/March the u17s and u20s could play schools and Colleges games unimpeded. The key point is allowing club games to go ahead without county players, but importantly IC and schools/colleges players return to their clubs for blocks of 8-10 weeks at a time , when clubs have unimpeded access to them for the high prestige competitions. Central council have to impose this structure and a template of regular games for all counties . If IC players are not named on a panel of 22 for games, they must be released to their clubs .
The GAA calendar could look like this for players with intercounty or schools , colleges commitments:
Dec/jan/feb : off season/preseason
March/April :NFL/schools/sigerson
May/June/July: Clubs
July/aug/sept: provincial /AI
Oct/nov: Clubs culminating in AI club finals .
Meanwhile the club season would be as follows, we'll name club matches without IC/schools/colleges players as "league", and matches with full complement, "championship"
Dec/jan/feb: offseason/preseason
March/April : club league matches
May/June : club championship matches
July/aug/sept: club league matches
Oct/nov: club championship matches
December:AI club semis and finals
Central council need to impose a template of games on county fixture makers, ensuring that when players are released back for their club "championship" games, there are plenty of fixtured games for them ie that all clubs remain active up to qfinal stage ( including a relegation championship for those knocked out of championship proper) .
Such a template , based on European rugby , protects and manages the elite player, while ensuring every club player gets regular football. Interestingly it gives more opportunity for fringe club players, who will get plenty of first team football in the "league" fighting to retain their championship place. These are the type of players most likely to dropout under the current system .
It would be possible under this system for a small rural club with plenty of county/colleges players to be a Division 3 "league" side without their county/colleges players, but a competitive senior "championship" side with their full complement
That looks waayyy too organised and neat. It would obviously work, which is completely missing the point.
Surely the point is to have crazy arbitrary systems that don't work? What would Congress talk about each year otherwise?
6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 12:49:08 PM
6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.
Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!
Quote from: johnneycool on November 04, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 12:49:08 PM
6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.
Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!
JohnnyCool can u see a similar system working for Hurling , where there is a major problem with inconsistent fixturing. If you had blocks of intercounty fixtures and club fixtures, would there be scope for an extended ulster club championship in autumn . The AI club series is the one area in which ulster teams (including your own club) have been very competitive at the very top. Imagine if the 3 Ards clubs , and say Derry's top 3, and Antrims top 6, competed in an extended Ulster club championship in the autumn , it could make for a really attractive competition, and prepare the eventual Ulster club champions for a tilt at an allIreland A title that they would be well capable of winning. During the intercounty block of fixtures , there could be time to run off a competitive NHL div 2 competition in the spring , with the winners rewarded with entry to the AllIreland proper and the rest playing chrissy ring and ulster championship in the summer. During this intercounty block your club matches go ahead without county players allowing u to blood players for your Down And Ulster club campaigns
6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).
In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).
So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 01:29:23 PM
6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).
In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).
So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?
Is this not exactly where burnout issues would come from though?
I'm talking about club here, not county. I don't see how you can't allow a player play club matches in both codes, that would basically kill one code or the other in different clubs. So it is a major challenge. I'm wondering how these proposals would affect the club dual player.
I'm willing to accept that at county level, particularly U21 and Senior, you can't play county dual anymore. It's just not feasible.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 01:33:20 PM
I'm talking about club here, not county. I don't see how you can't allow a player play club matches in both codes, that would basically kill one code or the other in different clubs. So it is a major challenge. I'm wondering how these proposals would affect the club dual player.
I'm willing to accept that at county level, particularly U21 and Senior, you can't play county dual anymore. It's just not feasible.
The problem then is AZ you are making a fixture template to accommodate dual players when a large proportion of counties don't really have that issue.
Its going to be hard to get a one size fits all solution
Exactumundo. That's why it's difficult, but I don't like to see proposals that essentially forget about the issue. Having said that, even in staunch football counties, or staunch hurling counties, the other code exists at club level, and normally has a competitive championship of some sort. It still has to be catered for.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 01:29:23 PM
6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).
In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).
So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?
I suppose you could alternate the club league and championship months during the early rounds. Dual players would play mainly championship games in that case. Later in the year there are more weekends for less and less teams so the issue would only arise on the rare occasion that both clubs go on a very long run.
There are only 30 games at U21 level. No league, no provincial backdoor, no AI quarter finals , no London, NY.. 10 in Leinster, 8 in Ulster, 5 Munster, 4 in Connacht and 3 in the AI series. Getting rid of this, which is one of the best competitions within the GAA , would be madness. Maybe they should take a look at fixtures and why Portlaoise play back to back and why Waterford championship final is only on this Friday and the winners have to play following day in Munster. (Could they not even wait till Sunday!)
For most counties who hav an unsuccessful senior team, the U21s can give the whole county a boost with a decent run and provides some hope for future days. Also, its an honour to make your country u21 team. Taking all this away to eliminate 30 games is not the answer.
I agree Lily, and it is an important stepping stone with regard to development as well. It's an awful big step from U17 to Senior.
How many feckin' reports, to always come out with the same bs conclusions.
The solution is soooo feckin' easy it's a joke. In my mind they need to do something like the following
1 -Year divided up into playing seasons
a) Club- (3-4 months priority)
b) Intercounty (3-4 months priority)
c) Schools and colleges (3-4 months priority)
2 - Schedule games in an efficient manor, for example
a) Club teams - Pick a day to play U-8 - U14 games - Play blitz's or league, doesn't matter, (for example; Friday Nights, Saturday mornings) then play the games U8 first, then U10 etc. This frees up the rest of the week for quality coaching
b) School competitions to be played during the same period (e.g. Dalton, Corn na Nog, Ranafast and MacRory played on the same day (just like schools rugby) One school plays the other in all competitions thus stopping lads playing for more than two teams) The atmosphere would be fantastic.
c) same with inter-county, senior, U21, U18 Junior, all played in the same period- forces counties to make squad decisions
d) league and championship to be run concurrently. No separate League and championship campaign, (or scrap 2nd rate provincial championships, and condense championship
3) Club competitions can overlap inter-county and school competitions, but you can't play players who are on inter county / school teams (this actually stops burn out)
This might not be the complete answer, but in principle, overlapping competitions need to stop
Again I'll throw in the hurling question. What do you do with club players who play both hurling and football?
Forgot one thing,
Eliminate development squads
Use the school system as development squads, or develop development schools for players of all abilities for clubs in a certain area and pick a development selection to play
At the moment, you can have a kid, playing three games in one week, and a couple of training sessions.
The week should be majority training, and one day of games
Quote from: Kickham csc on November 04, 2015, 02:42:31 PM
Forgot one thing,
Eliminate development squads
Use the school system as development squads, or develop development schools for players of all abilities for clubs in a certain area and pick a development selection to play
At the moment, you can have a kid, playing three games in one week, and a couple of training sessions.
The week should be majority training, and one day of games
Can't agree with that, but I'm selfish :) In all seriousness, the Development Squads do serve a purpose, so I wouldn't be removing them. Your regional development squads might be a runner.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 02:39:52 PM
Again I'll throw in the hurling question. What do you do with club players who play both hurling and football?
That's the truly hard question,
for me one solution is making football a autumn / winter sport and hurling a spring summer sport
or make the club season last 6 months, and alternate the hurling football weekends in regards to priority
or for adults, football games are Sunday's, hurling games are Friday night etc
No easy solution, but the GAA needs to come up with a proposal some about this particular issue.
Getting rid of U-21 football, JHC, are they for real
Quote from: 6th sam on November 04, 2015, 01:26:19 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 04, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 12:49:08 PM
6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.
Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!
JohnnyCool can u see a similar system working for Hurling , where there is a major problem with inconsistent fixturing. If you had blocks of intercounty fixtures and club fixtures, would there be scope for an extended ulster club championship in autumn . The AI club series is the one area in which ulster teams (including your own club) have been very competitive at the very top. Imagine if the 3 Ards clubs , and say Derry's top 3, and Antrims top 6, competed in an extended Ulster club championship in the autumn , it could make for a really attractive competition, and prepare the eventual Ulster club champions for a tilt at an allIreland A title that they would be well capable of winning. During the intercounty block of fixtures , there could be time to run off a competitive NHL div 2 competition in the spring , with the winners rewarded with entry to the AllIreland proper and the rest playing chrissy ring and ulster championship in the summer. During this intercounty block your club matches go ahead without county players allowing u to blood players for your Down And Ulster club campaigns
Ironically IMO there's no hurler in Down ever likely to suffer from burn out as they just don't get enough fixtures for that.
The Christy Ring games are played on saturdays which means our lads can play club senior in Antrim the next day, its the best of a bad lot TBH, but its been like that for years and we just couldn't field without the 5 or 6 county lads.
The current Down senior hurling championship consists of two knock out games, one semi-final and then the final, surely there's some way of sprucing it up considering the pretty decent system in place for the Down senior football championship!!
As for juvenile fixtures our U16's didn't play one game through most of the whole summer months of July and August. There were a few too old for U14 and a bit lacking at minor who only got the odd run out for the minors when management squeezed them in, now there's a reason for a youngster giving up the sport if there ever was one!
Burn out is not the issue for attrition rates in Down hurling, if anything its the opposite!
That's what I said elsewhere. Burn Out is a bit of a misnomer for the majority of players. The underlying reasons may be the same (poor calendaring etc) but the average club player is under cooked in terms of regular games, while the elite players are being burned out due to their commitments.
I would encourage players at club level, and underage, to play both games, but I would reduce the number of age groups they can play in. At county level minors don't play U21. U21s don't play senior. If you do step up a grade, you are immediately ineligible for the grade below. You should be able to run all 3 of those competitions side by side in one code. Same rule apply for hurling.
But the calendar has to be right to ensure regular games for the club players in both. That's why, as someone else said earlier, a one size fits all model will not work, and it's why I am suspicious of proposals that only mention Football, or only mention the Inter County calendar.
What should probably happen is Central Council, or Congress, adopt a formal inter county calendar, which leaves space for club games in both codes, across all age groups and grades, and across both codes. This calendar should have the various eligibility rules embedded in it, as above. This calendar should also contain the Inter Provincial Club Championships.
That then would at least give a framework to each county for them to play their club fixtures, and they should operate within the rules regarding playing above your age which are already there.
I think the college competitions should be downgraded or else fit into the inter county schedule.
Each county then should submit their master schedule for the start of the year, and a committee should review the 32 calendars (or more if we include Britain and the US), and ensure they are meeting explicit criteria regarding regular club games, league and championship, in accordance with the slots laid out in the inter county calendars.
Reduce panel sizes. Gone way beyond a joke now.
Saw a picture of the Ballyboden panel at the county final in the Herald. 36 (yes I counted them) players togged out. Not picking on BBSE by the way, most club panels photographed at county finals have close to 30 players.
Max of say 24 on a match day panel.
That's hard to do Canalman. Most of the lads on that panel would be training all year with the club team, and playing league games in the muck and shite. They may not get near a game in a championship final, but you'd be hard hearted to deny them their day in the sun.
Quote from: Canalman on November 04, 2015, 03:26:33 PM
Reduce panel sizes. Gone way beyond a joke now.
Saw a picture of the Ballyboden panel at the county final in the Herald. 36 (yes I counted them) players togged out. Not picking on BBSE by the way, most club panels photographed at county finals have close to 30 players.
Max of say 24 on a match day panel.
Tyrone togged out 30+ to play Louth in the qualifiers in 2013, beyond a joke, the rule for county has since been changed, i don't think it should be changed for club though
Yeah, County you can only name 26 on match day.
The dual club player is challenging alright but I'd differ from 6th Sam insofar as I'd probably suggest club action in one continuos block and IC in another. Strong (club) dual counties would just have to set competition parameters that account for getting all their games played within the block for clubs. So for example, a football only county might have 14 weeks of football for their clubs while dual ones might have to make groups smaller and have 7 hurling and 7 football. To my mind, any sports season should provide players with enough games and at the moment most IC players don't get that and most club players get a disjointed season.
There is no reason the IC year couldn't be played in June, July, August, September and October and the club season in November, January, February, March, April and May (or some variation of that) but that would give the IC scene 16 to 20 weeks and the clubs 20-24 weeks. Some people object to playing club games in the winter but we live in Ireland so we can't squeeze everything into the 2 good weeks we get each year. With better pitches and more floodlighted venues there is no reason we couldn't have a vibrant club GAA scene in the winter and finals would be played in April and May which are traditionally two of the best months.
I agree with that Zulu, but you would need some sort of off season as well.
Another factor on elite player burn out, which is very hard for the GAA to control, is that your elite young player is going to be elite across several sports, never mind the hurling v football debate. In an U14 development squad, for example, you will absolutely have players on Kennedy Cup Soccer, rugby academies, etc. As they age, they tend to focus on one sport over another, but at the younger ages, you are certainly challenged in that area, as anyone who tries to organise a challenge match at a weekend for a development squad can attest.
Bring back the ban AZ!!
I know what you're saying about an offseason but I think that's partly included in the framework I had. For example, county finals could be concluded by mid May and even if going into the last week of May that would only be two clubs per county with most finished by the end of April. Likewise October would only be for the final four counties in each competition so most IC players would have October off. To be fair, it's easy enough to put up something like what me or 6th Sam did but an altogether more challenging task to put the meat on it. However, reducing the number of teams a small number of elite players play on and creating blocks of IC weeks would be a major step forward IMO.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 03:28:01 PM
That's hard to do Canalman. Most of the lads on that panel would be training all year with the club team, and playing league games in the muck and shite. They may not get near a game in a championship final, but you'd be hard hearted to deny them their day in the sun.
I dunno about that AZ, if you're not getting near a game I'd rather be comfortable up in the stand. It's not like you need 30 for a full on warm up match beforehand.
Maybe that's just you. I know lads that come down to training a week before a county final to tog out and see if there's any free gear going 😀
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 01:33:20 PM
I'm talking about club here, not county. I don't see how you can't allow a player play club matches in both codes, that would basically kill one code or the other in different clubs. So it is a major challenge. I'm wondering how these proposals would affect the club dual player.
I'm willing to accept that at county level, particularly U21 and Senior, you can't play county dual anymore. It's just not feasible.
Fixtures in all counties where both codes are played , and there are possible dual players( most counties) must always take that into account in fixtures eg football games could be on a Friday and hurling on a Sunday . Alternate weeks is another option but again it creates a problem of the majority of players not playing every week
Has there ever been a player caught up in the one year with all of the following ?
And most of these teams were at the business end of their relevant competitions.
Senior (Intermediate, Junior) club team.
County team.
under 21 club team.
Under 21 inter county.
Sigerson
Railway Cup
International Rules
Michael Murphy must have been close.
Quote from: muppet on November 04, 2015, 08:12:11 PM
Michael Murphy must have been close.
Could be wrong but I don't think he was on the DCU panel that won Sigerson in 2010 (he may have been a fresher that year). That was his last year u21 (Donegal lost final to Dublin). Plus I don't think Donegal's senior championship dragged on too long that year either.
There may be someone, but it shows that the number of guys getting absolutely flogged is relatively small.
Quote from: shark on November 04, 2015, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 04, 2015, 08:12:11 PM
Michael Murphy must have been close.
Could be wrong but I don't think he was on the DCU panel that won Sigerson in 2010 (he may have been a fresher that year). That was his last year u21 (Donegal lost final to Dublin). Plus I don't think Donegal's senior championship dragged on too long that year either.
There may be someone, but it shows that the number of guys getting absolutely flogged is relatively small.
Aidan Walsh probably has played more, given he was a dual U-21 player, but did he ever win a Sigerson or Fitzgibbon?
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:31:43 PM
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
Fantastic suggestion, but without seriously policing and serious penalties for breach then worthless.
Quote from: smelmoth on November 04, 2015, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:31:43 PM
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
Fantastic suggestion, but without seriously policing and serious penalties for breach then worthless.
Best suggestion of the lot in my opinion.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 04, 2015, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on November 04, 2015, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 03, 2015, 01:31:43 PM
7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.
Fantastic suggestion, but without seriously policing and serious penalties for breach then worthless.
Best suggestion of the lot in my opinion.
Agree - as long as it isn't too easy to get around
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 06:09:36 PM
Maybe that's just you. I know lads that come down to training a week before a county final to tog out and see if there's any free gear going 😀
There are those lads as well. Another reason to limit it to 24 on match day.
Anyone that can't make the 24 should be playing with the B team anyway.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:08:48 AM
Anyone that can't make the 24 should be playing with the B team anyway.
Easy to say that come the final. But in a league game in July when the county lads are away, those lads are on the team in a lot of cases.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 04, 2015, 07:58:41 PM
Has there ever been a player caught up in the one year with all of the following ?
And most of these teams were at the business end of their relevant competitions.
Senior (Intermediate, Junior) club team.
County team.
under 21 club team.
Under 21 inter county.
Sigerson
Railway Cup
International Rules
Coulter?
Well take out the International Rules, and substitute hurling for football, and I'd imagine Noel McGrath, Tony Kelly and a couple of others from Clare, Tipp, Kilkenny, Limerick have been in that boat. Noel would have been with Loughmore Castleiney, who are always fairly team in hurling and football at club level, and was obviously with the U21s when he was playing senior and U21 county. He played Fizgibbon Cup as well, so I'd say he'd be one. Joe Canning with Portumna and LIT, Galway must be another.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 04, 2015, 07:58:41 PM
Has there ever been a player caught up in the one year with all of the following ?
And most of these teams were at the business end of their relevant competitions.
Senior (Intermediate, Junior) club team. ✔️✔️ (hurling & football)
County team. ✔️
under 21 club team. ❓
Under 21 inter county. ✔️✔️ (hurling & football)
Sigerson ✔️ (debatable - but he played for Cork Institute of Technology in hurling)
Railway Cup ❓(was there even a Railway Cup in 2011?)
International Rules ✔️
2011 Aidan Walsh
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 04, 2015, 02:02:57 PM
I agree Lily, and it is an important stepping stone with regard to development as well. It's an awful big step from U17 to Senior.
How do you propose to stop the horrific injuries and abuse of players in this bracket?
I work with this bracket of players every week and it's disgusting how flogged these guys are by club and county
It's alright having romantic ideals about u21 players but the reality is - it's a problem grade and whether people like it or not it is a serious contributor towards burnout because of when it is scheduled.
By not allowing U21s play senior, and if they do, then they are ineligible for U21s. Also, remove or move the College competitions.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
By not allowing U21s play senior, and if they do, then they are ineligible for U21s. Also, remove or move the College competitions.
+1 but make it U20.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
By not allowing U21s play senior, and if they do, then they are ineligible for U21s. Also, remove or move the College competitions.
Will never be passed . College scholarships are an integral part of the GAA professional structure at elite level .
In an ideal world you're spot on but the politics will ensure it never happens . You have to remember most GAA managers don't give a shirt about the welfare of their players
Even bringing in the rule that you can only play intercounty in one grade would help. If U21s weren't allowed play senior, or else had to forfeit their U21 status, that would take a load off. The U21 championship itself, being straight knockout, is not a huge demand on players if they weren't also on senior panels.
If they do away with it, you'll end up with a pile of 18 year olds doing county senior training, which would be mental.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
By not allowing U21s play senior, and if they do, then they are ineligible for U21s. Also, remove or move the College competitions.
Odds are very high that the third level educational institutes would simply run the games independent of the official GAA if the GAA did this, so the idea of removing college competitions is a non-runner.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 12:27:39 PM
Even bringing in the rule that you can only play intercounty in one grade would help. If U21s weren't allowed play senior, or else had to forfeit their U21 status, that would take a load off. The U21 championship itself, being straight knockout, is not a huge demand on players if they weren't also on senior panels.
If they do away with it, you'll end up with a pile of 18 year olds doing county senior training, which would be mental.
It would make scheduling of games much easier if you were either U21 or senior but not both - as it is now the number of under 21 players who play a significant amount of senior football is probably at an all-time low - there was no player on panels of the two teams who contested the All-Ireland who was eligible for the YPOTY (which is an U21 award)
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 09, 2015, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 12:27:39 PM
Even bringing in the rule that you can only play intercounty in one grade would help. If U21s weren't allowed play senior, or else had to forfeit their U21 status, that would take a load off. The U21 championship itself, being straight knockout, is not a huge demand on players if they weren't also on senior panels.
If they do away with it, you'll end up with a pile of 18 year olds doing county senior training, which would be mental.
It would make scheduling of games much easier if you were either U21 or senior but not both - as it is now the number of under 21 players who play a significant amount of senior football is probably at an all-time low - there was no player on panels of the two teams who contested the All-Ireland who was eligible for the YPOTY (which is an U21 award)
Galway had a few
Control the training, problem is when a player is on several teams he is expected to train with them all as well as play, a training record and schedule as well as playing schedule for each player recording length and time for each player, proper rest time must be observed and best interest and health of the player before all else, there is currently an app available to help with this, each management team must take responsibility and insure the player is protected. If this is implemented {and must be done and made law by congress} it will sort out most of the problems.
How and who will police this?
We only had Johnny in for training 3 times this month - sure look at the record.
Thats the attitude rossfan, it cant be done so dont even try, the player will maintain his or her own records with team managements having joint responsibility, players train to get themselves into the best possible shape, why would they do anything to put that at risk?, Gaa, Gpa, and county boards should buy into this, as I said before it must be initiated at congress, our own Cathal Cregg is advocating this for some time now.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 11:29:18 PM
How and who will police this?
We only had Johnny in for training 3 times this month - sure look at the record.
What do you mean police it ? If a player comes to you and has been training three days in a row - don't be like all those other gobshites and train him for a 4th day in a row
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 09, 2015, 12:27:39 PM
Even bringing in the rule that you can only play intercounty in one grade would help. If U21s weren't allowed play senior, or else had to forfeit their U21 status, that would take a load off. The U21 championship itself, being straight knockout, is not a huge demand on players if they weren't also on senior panels.
If they do away with it, you'll end up with a pile of 18 year olds doing county senior training, which would be mental.
Club football could be used to develop lads
Quote from: INDIANA on November 11, 2015, 05:09:35 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2015, 11:29:18 PM
How and who will police this?
We only had Johnny in for training 3 times this month - sure look at the record.
What do you mean police it ? If a player comes to you and has been training three days in a row - don't be like all those other gobshites and train him for a 4th day in a row
Self regulation......we're good at that alright ::)
It'll be "I want 100% turn out - no excuses" then Co Board will sanitise the training records.
QuoteSelf regulation......we're good at that alright
Jimmy Hyland, played on Rathangan school team that won All-Ireland 'C' this year. Also played county minor and club minor, u21 and senior (intermediate). Back in school and his school coach refuses to pick him till January. Some coaches will put player welfare first. Appreciate not norm but all we can do is educate.
To be fair, I think coaches get too hard a time on this. Coaching isn't just about getting a guy fit and a player won't necessarily be playing in the same position or the team the same style of play so not having a player at training can be detrimental. Besides, a guy who is on 8 teams might only end up at less than 30% of some teams training sessions but still plays as he is a star player while another guy who might only have that team and is at every training session gets dropped when the star returns. One IC team in a year, no, ifs, buts or maybes. Two levels at club (U21 and senior for example) and one level at school. No dual players at IC level from minor up. Do that and we would go along way to solving the flogging of some players and we'd also go some way to keeping more lads involved for longer.
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2015, 03:35:20 PM
To be fair, I think coaches get too hard a time on this. Coaching isn't just about getting a guy fit and a player won't necessarily be playing in the same position or the team the same style of play so not having a player at training can be detrimental. Besides, a guy who is on 8 teams might only end up at less than 30% of some teams training sessions but still plays as he is a star player while another guy who might only have that team and is at every training session gets dropped when the star returns. One IC team in a year, no, ifs, buts or maybes. Two levels at club (U21 and senior for example) and one level at school. No dual players at IC level from minor up. Do that and we would go along way to solving the flogging of some players and we'd also go some way to keeping more lads involved for longer.
If a player is playing for his senior club & U-21,Senior county & U-21 and Sigerson cup team which includes championship and league how hard would it be for the five managers to sit down with each other and come up with a suitable training plan for that player?
Not easy at all, near impossible in fact.
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2015, 06:42:06 PM
Not easy at all, near impossible in fact.
It might be in the pipeline but the current scheduling for underage players isn't going to change anytime soon and if player welfare is a priority then the near impossible will have to be made possible.
You can't force multiple managers from all over the country to do that though. If we both manage the same player and you agree to managing him but I don't because I have.....a small panel, he's an important player, my team should be his main team (take your pick!) then there is nothing you or anyone else can do (and importantly follow through on) so it will remain impossible IMO.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 11, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: Zulu on November 11, 2015, 03:35:20 PM
To be fair, I think coaches get too hard a time on this. Coaching isn't just about getting a guy fit and a player won't necessarily be playing in the same position or the team the same style of play so not having a player at training can be detrimental. Besides, a guy who is on 8 teams might only end up at less than 30% of some teams training sessions but still plays as he is a star player while another guy who might only have that team and is at every training session gets dropped when the star returns. One IC team in a year, no, ifs, buts or maybes. Two levels at club (U21 and senior for example) and one level at school. No dual players at IC level from minor up. Do that and we would go along way to solving the flogging of some players and we'd also go some way to keeping more lads involved for longer.
If a player is playing for his senior club & U-21,Senior county & U-21 and Sigerson cup team which includes championship and league how hard would it be for the five managers to sit down with each other and come up with a suitable training plan for that player?
I think that's the problem, players are busy ,managers are busy, fixture makers have a nightmare of a task fitting in games. The danger is when u leave it up to goodwill & organisation the player is still likely to suffer. Why should managers be expected to weaken their team while there is no obligation on other managers to do so. In this case the most bullish and selfish managers often succeed.
What we need to do is legislate to reduce the demands on the small percentage of elite players while providing weekly games for all. I think the suggestion of u17s not playing senior is a good one , even though it considerably disadvantages my own club this year. Similarly replacing minor Intercounty to u17 , and u21 to u20, while not allowing Intercounty players to play above their Intercounty age group , are two simple changes to aim for over the next few years.
Conditioning wise Gaelic footballers are getting heavier , much like rugby , and it's notable that it's almost unheard of an u20 player to play senior rugby. It makes sense to put a block on u20s playing senior Intercounty football. The u17 Intercounty season could provide more games eg over the summer which would aid elite player development, this would be much easier now that u17s can't play senior club . While these intercounty matches go ahead, club league matches go ahead, but all intercounty players will be available for an extended club championship campaign.
Its not about the number of teams or matches a player has its what he is asked to do in between games,
players involved in multi teams must have a strict training schedule with regular assessment by a qualified trainer, until proper structures are put in place we will have players and coaches doing damage, it has to be regulated.
Professional structures must be put in place in all counties to protect the players and funded by the gaa of course.
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 11, 2015, 10:54:17 PM
Its not about the number of teams or matches a player has its what he is asked to do in between games,
players involved in multi teams must have a strict training schedule with regular assessment by a qualified trainer, until proper structures are put in place we will have players and coaches doing damage, it has to be regulated.
Professional structures must be put in place in all counties to protect the players and funded by the gaa of course.
An intercounty player management scheme as per rugby union would be the way to go , this works in rugby because the ordinary club player has matches every week, the international player joins his club colleagues for specific blocks whilst also adhering to an international fitness program. The key is the blocks of intercounty action, during this period county players should have matches every week, whilst their club colleagues also have games. I can not see any other system that would better protect intercounty players whilst allowing regular club football. Importantly during the intercounty championship season , we have to develop a system whereby all counties are having regular games. I often think that it's a nightmare for managers and players alike , when there are 3 to 4 weeks between intercounty matches, where intercounty players are either stood down from club matches, or no club matches are fixed, or worse still that fixture makers have to squeeze in as many club fixtures as possible before the ?10 day period prior to county games when county players aren't allowed to play for their clubs. Thus risking injury to not only county players but to club players not conditioned to survive an increased load of games.
The block of county fixtures allows county managers unrestricted access to their players, but then they return to the club's albeit still having a certain amount of permitted intercounty sessions.
Down clubs rejected the proposed trial period of 3 years changing the age groups to the odd.
TBH, Croke Park/ Down CB didn't really do a lot to convince the clubs of the merits of the trial other than some very generic nonsense about dropout without giving a whole pile of detail and how these new age groupings would prevent it.
Wexford, Longford and someone else will need to take the plunge it seems!
Quote from: johnneycool on November 17, 2015, 10:27:00 AM
Down clubs rejected the proposed trial period of 3 years changing the age groups to the odd.
TBH, Croke Park/ Down CB didn't really do a lot to convince the clubs of the merits of the trial other than some very generic nonsense about dropout without giving a whole pile of detail and how these new age groupings would prevent it.
Wexford, Longford and someone else will need to take the plunge it seems!
Any more feedback?
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 17, 2015, 11:57:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 17, 2015, 10:27:00 AM
Down clubs rejected the proposed trial period of 3 years changing the age groups to the odd.
TBH, Croke Park/ Down CB didn't really do a lot to convince the clubs of the merits of the trial other than some very generic nonsense about dropout without giving a whole pile of detail and how these new age groupings would prevent it.
Wexford, Longford and someone else will need to take the plunge it seems!
Any more feedback?
From who, CP?
Quote from: johnneycool on November 17, 2015, 01:56:54 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 17, 2015, 11:57:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 17, 2015, 10:27:00 AM
Down clubs rejected the proposed trial period of 3 years changing the age groups to the odd.
TBH, Croke Park/ Down CB didn't really do a lot to convince the clubs of the merits of the trial other than some very generic nonsense about dropout without giving a whole pile of detail and how these new age groupings would prevent it.
Wexford, Longford and someone else will need to take the plunge it seems!
Any more feedback?
From who, CP?
Was the meeting about the various proposals not on at the weekend?