GAA Discussion Paper

[Zulu]

Well exactly. Lads often make those decisions themselves anyway and none of the players involved will be short games anyway.

[Esmarelda]

Is this all being discussed at the same gathering that will discuss the 18 proposals for the restructuring of the inter-county season?

You'd have thought a comprehensive review of all levels would be best.

[6th sam]

I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.

If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.

Exactly , carefully choosing the intercounty age groups eg u17, u20, senior ,and having no crossover and playing the competitions simultaneously , solves alot of problems. If the ic games are played in blocks, it ensures plenty of ic games for all ages . During these blocks the club season goes ahead without ic players, who then return to their clubs for a block of championship games. In jan/feb/March the u17s and u20s could play schools and Colleges games unimpeded. The key point is allowing club games to go ahead without county players, but importantly IC  and schools/colleges players return to their clubs for blocks of 8-10 weeks at a time , when clubs have unimpeded access to them for the high prestige competitions. Central council have to impose this structure and a template of regular games for all counties . If IC players are not named on a panel of 22 for games, they must be released to their clubs .
The GAA calendar could look like this for players with intercounty or schools , colleges commitments:
Dec/jan/feb : off season/preseason
March/April :NFL/schools/sigerson
May/June/July: Clubs
July/aug/sept: provincial /AI
Oct/nov: Clubs culminating in AI club finals .

Meanwhile the club season would be as follows, we'll name club matches without IC/schools/colleges players as "league", and matches with full complement, "championship"
Dec/jan/feb: offseason/preseason
March/April : club league matches
May/June : club championship matches
July/aug/sept: club league matches
Oct/nov: club championship matches
December:AI club semis and finals

Central council need to impose a template of games on county fixture makers, ensuring that when players are released back for their club "championship" games, there are plenty of fixtured games for them ie that all clubs remain active up to qfinal stage ( including a relegation championship for those knocked out of championship proper) .

Such a template , based on European rugby , protects and manages the elite player, while ensuring every club player gets regular football. Interestingly it gives more opportunity for fringe club players, who will get plenty of first team football in the "league" fighting to retain their championship place. These are the type of players most likely to dropout under the current system .

It would be possible under this system for a small rural club with plenty of county/colleges players to be a Division 3 "league" side without their county/colleges players, but a competitive senior "championship" side with their full complement

[Keyser soze]

Beggars belief that the brains' trust of the Gaa could come up with this as a solution to 'burnout' in young players.

Don't have any football for them.

In fact try to encourage themn to retire at 17.

That should keep them injury free.

Musta took a long time to come up with that gem.

[Rossfan]

Good well thought out suggestions by 6th Sam.

[muppet]

I agree with all of that Hound except the necessity to start it at the business end of the senior season. U21 or minor shouldn't be played on provincial lines in a knockout format. Without getting into another competition structures discussion both minor and U21 teams need at least six competitive games and not training three months for one or two. The likes of Carlow can always select their best U21's and not have them field at senior level until they are beyond U21. If their U21 players were guaranteed six or more proper games then they would develop better than playing with the seniors 6 or 7 times in a year.

If a player can only play with one IC team per year then you could have them all running simultaneously which would allow for more games, more players getting exposure to IC level and more time for club games. The only sacrifices we would have to make are dual players and lads on more than one IC team in the same code.

Exactly , carefully choosing the intercounty age groups eg u17, u20, senior ,and having no crossover and playing the competitions simultaneously , solves alot of problems. If the ic games are played in blocks, it ensures plenty of ic games for all ages . During these blocks the club season goes ahead without ic players, who then return to their clubs for a block of championship games. In jan/feb/March the u17s and u20s could play schools and Colleges games unimpeded. The key point is allowing club games to go ahead without county players, but importantly IC  and schools/colleges players return to their clubs for blocks of 8-10 weeks at a time , when clubs have unimpeded access to them for the high prestige competitions. Central council have to impose this structure and a template of regular games for all counties . If IC players are not named on a panel of 22 for games, they must be released to their clubs .
The GAA calendar could look like this for players with intercounty or schools , colleges commitments:
Dec/jan/feb : off season/preseason
March/April :NFL/schools/sigerson
May/June/July: Clubs
July/aug/sept: provincial /AI
Oct/nov: Clubs culminating in AI club finals .

Meanwhile the club season would be as follows, we'll name club matches without IC/schools/colleges players as "league", and matches with full complement, "championship"
Dec/jan/feb: offseason/preseason
March/April : club league matches
May/June : club championship matches
July/aug/sept: club league matches
Oct/nov: club championship matches
December:AI club semis and finals

Central council need to impose a template of games on county fixture makers, ensuring that when players are released back for their club "championship" games, there are plenty of fixtured games for them ie that all clubs remain active up to qfinal stage ( including a relegation championship for those knocked out of championship proper) .

Such a template , based on European rugby , protects and manages the elite player, while ensuring every club player gets regular football. Interestingly it gives more opportunity for fringe club players, who will get plenty of first team football in the "league" fighting to retain their championship place. These are the type of players most likely to dropout under the current system .

It would be possible under this system for a small rural club with plenty of county/colleges players to be a Division 3 "league" side without their county/colleges players, but a competitive senior "championship" side with their full complement

That looks waayyy too organised and neat. It would obviously work, which is completely missing the point.

Surely the point is to have crazy arbitrary systems that don't work? What would Congress talk about each year otherwise?

[Esmarelda]

6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.

[johnneycool]

6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.

Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!

[6th sam]

6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.

Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!

JohnnyCool can u see a similar system working for Hurling , where there is a major problem with inconsistent fixturing. If you had blocks of intercounty fixtures and club fixtures, would there be scope for an extended ulster club championship in autumn . The AI club series is the one area in which ulster teams (including your own club) have been very competitive at the very top. Imagine if the 3 Ards clubs , and say Derry's top 3, and Antrims top 6, competed in an extended Ulster club championship in the autumn , it could make for a really attractive competition, and prepare the eventual Ulster club champions for a tilt at an allIreland A title that they would be well capable of winning. During the intercounty block of fixtures , there could be time to run off a competitive NHL div 2 competition in the spring , with the winners rewarded with entry to the AllIreland proper and the rest playing chrissy ring and ulster championship in the summer. During this intercounty block your club matches go ahead without county players allowing u to blood players for your Down And Ulster club campaigns

[AZOffaly]

6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).

In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).

So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?

[muppet]

6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).

In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).

So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?

Is this not exactly where burnout issues would come from though?

[AZOffaly]

I'm talking about club here, not county. I don't see how you can't allow a player play club matches in both codes, that would basically kill one code or the other in different clubs. So it is a major challenge. I'm wondering how these proposals would affect the club dual player.

I'm willing to accept that at county level, particularly U21 and Senior, you can't play county dual anymore. It's just not feasible.

[blewuporstuffed]

I'm talking about club here, not county. I don't see how you can't allow a player play club matches in both codes, that would basically kill one code or the other in different clubs. So it is a major challenge. I'm wondering how these proposals would affect the club dual player.

I'm willing to accept that at county level, particularly U21 and Senior, you can't play county dual anymore. It's just not feasible.

The problem then is AZ you are making a fixture template to accommodate dual players when a  large proportion of counties don't really have that issue.
Its going to be hard to get a one size fits all solution

[AZOffaly]

Exactumundo. That's why it's difficult, but I don't like to see proposals that essentially forget about the issue. Having said that, even in staunch football counties, or staunch hurling counties, the other code exists at club level, and normally has a competitive championship of some sort. It still has to be catered for.

[muppet]

6th Sam, how would you envision this working for a county which has a serious crossover of dual clubs and players. (I'm talking about the club fixtures here primarily).

In Offaly, things tend to be alternate weeks, hurling, football, hurling etc. We would have quite a few players playing senior club in both. (Or if not, Intermediate/Junior in one or the other).

So how would the Offaly County Board, for example, run your 'block' approach?

I suppose you could alternate the club league and championship months during the early rounds. Dual players would play mainly championship games in that case. Later in the year there are more weekends for less and less teams so the issue would only arise on the rare occasion that both clubs go on a very long run.