Surprised this thread hasn't been started yet. Surely its not that forgone a conclusion?
Thought Down looked fairly good today (in an open game), but we will obviously (presumably!) bring a different level of pressure to bear on their forwards when creating chances and shooting. We were poor at midfield for much of the contest against Tyrone, so we will want to improve there, both winning primary ball and the breaks. And presumably Down will have some lessons learnt from last year - can't see a facile eleven point win here again. Still, its hard not to see us winning it, given McGuinness's track record in preparing teams and making adjustments. In the past, I'd always have been fearful of Donegal losing a game like this through poor attitude and preparation. Not any more. Which is not to say that Donegal can't or won't have a bad day. Just that it won't come through poor attitude or treating a fixture lightly.
McCartan basically conceded the game in his interview after the match today. It's one thing being honest but given there is no expectation on Down to begin with there wasn't much need to put it in lads' heads that they're so inferior to Donegal that 'they'd lose nine time out of ten'.
On a side note I have to say Donegal have been excellent about loaning out Sam to neighbouring counties, even going as far as getting some of the players to come down with the cup on occasion . We had it Saturday and most of today at the opening of St. Croan's new pitch in Ballintober. Classy stuff by the Tír Chonaill men.
McCartan is just playing the game. Pretty sure he'll be telling his players differently, playing Donegal is as much mental as physical these days.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 03, 2013, 07:07:39 AM
McCartan is just playing the game. Pretty sure he'll be telling his players differently, playing Donegal is as much mental as physical these days.
Agreed. McCartan doesn't really believe we'd lose 9 outta 10 and neither do the team. That was a soundbite for the journos.
Quote from: Syferus on June 03, 2013, 03:14:57 AM
McCartan basically conceded the game in his interview after the match today. It's one thing being honest but given there is no expectation on Down to begin with there wasn't much need to put it in lads' heads that they're so inferior to Donegal that 'they'd lose nine time out of ten'.
On a side note I have to say Donegal have been excellent about loaning out Sam to neighbouring counties, even going as far as getting some of the players to come down with the cup on occasion . We had it Saturday and most of today at the opening of St. Croan's new pitch in Ballintober. Classy stuff by the Tír Chonaill men.
Are you serious?
Donegal by at least 8-10.
Quote from: Syferus on June 03, 2013, 03:14:57 AM
McCartan basically conceded the game in his interview after the match today. It's one thing being honest but given there is no expectation on Down to begin with there wasn't much need to put it in lads' heads that they're so inferior to Donegal that 'they'd lose nine time out of ten'.
On a side note I have to say Donegal have been excellent about loaning out Sam to neighbouring counties, even going as far as getting some of the players to come down with the cup on occasion . We had it Saturday and most of today at the opening of St. Croan's new pitch in Ballintober. Classy stuff by the Tír Chonaill men.
Hook line and sinker
No doubt he's telling his team differently but there was no need to play the poor mouth and feed into the popular perception, pretty much no one expects Down to win do it's not like he's trying to shake pressure off his team. A lot of managers these days blindly adhere to a 'down-play at all costs' mentality in public and in many cases it sets a poorer environment in their county and in the country.
Players aren't robots (Kildare being the exception) so no matter what they're being told in camp feeding into having people you meet asking you 'do ye have any chance?' is going to leak through to some degree.
It's only a small thing but I'd prefer to see a manager not rubbishing his side before a big game and in this case it does his team absolutely no good.
Donegal by 7/8.
It's merely James' coy style. He's been saying this type of thing for years now.
Derry's Eamonn Colman RIP would have had a similar cute h00r style about him when dealing with the press.
Would agree with McCartans assessment, I think they have little or no chance against Donegal. It will be a totally different game against Donegal and I would be surprised if Down get within 4/5 points of them. Part of the problem for teams facing Donegal now is the growing myth surrounding Donegal (and in particular McGuinness) that they can't be beaten and thats why I'm surprised at McCartan's comments.
One of McGuinness' greatest virtues is nullifying the oppositions strengths so I wouldn't expect Mckernan or Poland to get anywhere near the amount of space they got yesterday. The game between these sides last year was over very early on and it wouldn't be realistic to expect to turn that around in 12 months.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 03, 2013, 02:03:10 PM
Would agree with McCartans assessment, I think they have little or no chance against Donegal. It will be a totally different game against Donegal and I would be surprised if Down get within 4/5 points of them. Part of the problem for teams facing Donegal now is the growing myth surrounding Donegal (and in particular McGuinness) that they can't be beaten and thats why I'm surprised at McCartan's comments.
One of McGuinness' greatest virtues is nullifying the oppositions strengths so I wouldn't expect Mckernan or Poland to get anywhere near the amount of space they got yesterday. The game between these sides last year was over very early on and it wouldn't be realistic to expect to turn that around in 12 months.
After 50 minutes last year, Donegal were only ahead by 2 points and Down were very much in the game. The concession of the 2nd goal seems to deflate them completely and they allowed Donegal to run up 1-09 in the last 20 minutes but the game was very competitive up to that.
shhhhhhhhh..no it wasnt, dont be daft. Donegal and Jedi Jim only let us think we were being competitive and kept us in the game themselves for entertainment purposes. They could have killed us off at any time of their choosing. All Jim had to do was give the nod and we were dead and buried.
And the same thing will happen in a few weeks time.
It'll be very interesting to see how wee James sets his team out the next day. If Down play with the same shape & tactics they did yesterday they'll be bate out the gate by half time. Thats a certainty, they were far too loose. But with the experience of last year etc surely they will have some sort of tactical plan in place? After all whats the point of having a 10 man backroom team if they cant...
It was hard to figure out exactly what Tyrone's plan was against Donegal - i.e it wasnt overly defensive, and it certainly wasnt very attack minded either. I felt we were caught between the two, and the team ultimately lacked conviction & belief in the overall gameplan. Certainly aiming to play any type of possession based football in the Donegal half will prove fruitless & demoralising.
Should McCartan adopt an ultra defensive strategy, gettting everyone behind the ball and try and slow the game down into a real low scoring slug fest?
Or would he be better off sticking the likes of King & Rogers close to the square & lumping early ball repeatedly into them. Get it in early & often. With a speedster like O'Hare making runs for lay offs & picking up the spills...
Jim's a genius an all that, im a big fan of the guy. But its only a matter of time until someone develops a strategy to counteract his method. Down may or may not have the tools to beat Jims system, but someone will. I reckon it'll be this year as well. Fascinating tactical stuff, but whoever comes up with the answers will need to be very creative.
If wee James could get the Down lads to speak Ulster scots throughout the match it could confuse the Donegal men and break their mental resilience.
http://www.northsouthministerialcouncil.org/nsmc_2008_annual_report_ulster_scots-6.pdf
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2013, 04:50:07 PM
If wee James could get the Down lads to speak Ulster scots throughout the match it could confuse the Donegal men and break their mental resilience.
http://www.northsouthministerialcouncil.org/nsmc_2008_annual_report_ulster_scots-6.pdf
I'm a newbie and even to me this looks like a T Fearon post.
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
The game will be alot tighter than most think, Down have the scoring power to be a serious threat, but need to have a day at midfield like yesterday,as Donegal have practically 3 E bradleys in their full forward line and if the supply is good Down wouldn't hold them all
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 03, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
King had his first good game I seen and McKernan is really a wing back. McKernan won't get the same room against dun na ngall. Plus they were up against a 19 yr old lad who was having his second ever championship game at mf(club and county) and a 1/4 fit Patsy Bradley.
Anyway Donegal don't give a hoot about mf to be honest. They win by different means
Quote from: theticklemister on June 03, 2013, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 03, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
King had his first good game I seen and McKernan is really a wing back. McKernan won't get the same room against dun na ngall. Plus they were up against a 19 yr old lad who was having his second ever championship game at mf(club and county) and a 1/4 fit Patsy Bradley.
Anyway Donegal don't give a hoot about mf to be honest. They win by different means
Nearly sure McKernan plays as a forward for Burren...versatile boy all the same.
I think Down will give it a good rattle, I was quite impressed as I had fancied Derry at the weekend.
The full-back line however remains the main concern and keeping McFadden and big Murphy quiet is where the real questions will be asked. Down have a lot of talented forwards though so it will be interesting to see what strategy is employed against Donegal as they won't give them boys an inch to move. Should be a good game, think Down are better than what their league results showed!
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 03, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
I hate that saying! There is always something to lose. Even if you lose a game, it's the manner of the loss.
Quote from: qubdub on June 03, 2013, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on June 03, 2013, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 03, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
King had his first good game I seen and McKernan is really a wing back. McKernan won't get the same room against dun na ngall. Plus they were up against a 19 yr old lad who was having his second ever championship game at mf(club and county) and a 1/4 fit Patsy Bradley.
Anyway Donegal don't give a hoot about mf to be honest. They win by different means
Nearly sure McKernan plays as a forward for Burren...versatile boy all the same.
I think Down will give it a good rattle, I was quite impressed as I had fancied Derry at the weekend.
The full-back line however remains the main concern and keeping McFadden and big Murphy quiet is where the real questions will be asked. Down have a lot of talented forwards though so it will be interesting to see what strategy is employed against Donegal as they won't give them boys an inch to move. Should be a good game, think Down are better than what their league results showed!
Sure Donegal were relegated too!
Neither team falling in line with the conventional wisdom about the dire implications of a bad league campaign so far! Although it has appeared lost on quite a few that Donegal finished with an identical points total last year!
Donegal 4-29
Down 0-5
(HT 1-6 to 0-5)
3-23 in the second half. That would almost match Kerry at the weekend! :P
Has a venue been confirmed for the game? Ive heard Clones and Celtic Park mentioned but have either been confirmed?
To be honest I don't think Down have a hope in hell against Donegal. Down beat Derry, who lost to Westmeath in div 2 final. Look what Dublin did to Westmeath! Down beat an average Derry team and struggled to do so. They'll get hammered against Donegal. No doubt about it.
Did Derry not beat Westmeath in the league final :o
What is the closest Down senior club team to Belfast?
Bredagh Carryduff and Darragh Cross would be closest but are all intermediate, St Pauls Hollywood are junior. Loughinisland I think might be closest senior team to Belfast.
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2013, 08:57:13 AM
Bredagh Carryduff and Darragh Cross would be closest but are all intermediate, St Pauls Hollywood are junior. Loughinisland I think might be closest senior team to Belfast.
So is most of the football in the south of the county ? I was up there recently and it was great passing by signs for places like Mayobridge.
Would they take any notice of an all Ireland in the Protestant towns ?
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2013, 10:20:02 AM
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2013, 08:57:13 AM
Bredagh Carryduff and Darragh Cross would be closest but are all intermediate, St Pauls Hollywood are junior. Loughinisland I think might be closest senior team to Belfast.
So is most of the football in the south of the county ? I was up there recently and it was great passing by signs for places like Mayobridge.
Would they take any notice of an all Ireland in the Protestant towns ?
Not really, there are always people who are interested if sport full stop, but if you were looking for loads of Down flags in Newtownards, Holywood or Bangor you would have a long wait.
majority of players would come from clubs within 15 mile of newy. Players from Castlewellan, bryansford loughinisland and to a lesser extent downpatrick and carryduff would also feature prominently over the years.
Quote from: RMDrive on June 03, 2013, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 03, 2013, 02:03:10 PM
Would agree with McCartans assessment, I think they have little or no chance against Donegal. It will be a totally different game against Donegal and I would be surprised if Down get within 4/5 points of them. Part of the problem for teams facing Donegal now is the growing myth surrounding Donegal (and in particular McGuinness) that they can't be beaten and thats why I'm surprised at McCartan's comments.
One of McGuinness' greatest virtues is nullifying the oppositions strengths so I wouldn't expect Mckernan or Poland to get anywhere near the amount of space they got yesterday. The game between these sides last year was over very early on and it wouldn't be realistic to expect to turn that around in 12 months.
After 50 minutes last year, Donegal were only ahead by 2 points and Down were very much in the game. The concession of the 2nd goal seems to deflate them completely and they allowed Donegal to run up 1-09 in the last 20 minutes but the game was very competitive up to that.
Donegal have a pattern of destroying teams in the last 1/4 of the game.
If Down can stay in the game for 50 minutes and then score 4 quick goals, possibly they have a chance.
Nevertheless, I'll be rooting for the underdog to pull off some (ol' time aristocratic) magic in this game.
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2013, 08:01:27 AM
Has a venue been confirmed for the game? Ive heard Clones and Celtic Park mentioned but have either been confirmed?
Celtic Park no chance.
I don't think it had held a neutral ulster senior football championship game ever.
Quote from: theticklemister on June 04, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2013, 08:01:27 AM
Has a venue been confirmed for the game? Ive heard Clones and Celtic Park mentioned but have either been confirmed?
Celtic Park no chance.
I don't think it had held a neutral ulster senior football championship game ever.
Ulster Semi finals recently are held in clones or casement. Id say Clones will get the nod for both semis this year .
It will be Clones.
I can't remember the last time they made us go to Belfast when we weren't playing Antrim.
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2013, 11:04:04 AM
majority of players would come from clubs within 15 mile of newy. Players from Castlewellan, bryansford loughinisland and to a lesser extent downpatrick and carryduff would also feature prominently over the years.
Thanks
Quote from: ONeill on June 04, 2013, 12:37:55 AM
Donegal 4-29
Down 0-5
(HT 1-6 to 0-5)
So your theory is that you lost to Donegal by six points, so automatically we must lose by way more! Because of course Tyrone are so far ahead of Down that there is no chance that we could actually get anywhere near to losing by as little as you did. That's a pretty arrogant position and it really does you no favours.
There is little merit in trying to denigrate other teams when your own team has just taken a lesson. O'Neill better you maybe just keep your head down and lick your wounds instead of trying to be a smart ass. It just makes you look childish
Down are 5 to 1
http://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football
23rd Jun 2013
14:00 Donegal v Down
1/6
10/1
5/1
there ye go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feck ye seafood ye beat me to it!!!!!!!!!
DUBLIN ARE 1/4!
Quote from: theticklemister on June 04, 2013, 04:01:04 PM
23rd Jun 2013
14:00 Donegal v Down
1/6
10/1
5/1
there ye go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feck ye seafood ye beat me to it!!!!!!!!!
DUBLIN ARE 1/4!
Dublin are probably 10 to 1 in Naas with Kildare 1/20 .
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 04, 2013, 03:17:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on June 04, 2013, 12:37:55 AM
Donegal 4-29
Down 0-5
(HT 1-6 to 0-5)
So your theory is that you lost to Donegal by six points, so automatically we must lose by way more! Because of course Tyrone are so far ahead of Down that there is no chance that we could actually get anywhere near to losing by as little as you did. That's a pretty arrogant position and it really does you no favours.
There is little merit in trying to denigrate other teams when your own team has just taken a lesson. O'Neill better you maybe just keep your head down and lick your wounds instead of trying to be a smart ass. It just makes you look childish
Relax. ;D
Up Down!
Do it for the aristocrats.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2013, 10:16:54 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 03, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Down have absolutely nothing to lose, nobody is expecting them to win.
So they should go for it; yeah, shaky defence, but one hell of a midfield and forward line on Sunday's showing - just score more than Donegal and they win!! Simple!!
I hate that saying! There is always something to lose. Even if you lose a game, it's the manner of the loss.
Relax ;D
A comeback to glory for the aristocrats?
(http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_quotations/images/2008/03/31/coolacreasehouse_b.jpg)
The Big problem for Down is that they lost 2-18 to 0-13 to Donegal and 3-18 to 2-09 to Mayo last year. They lost 2-20 - 0-14 to Cork in 2011. They are big hits from what the media consider to be the big hitters. Down are a good side, they have been playing Division 1 for the last couple of years. But they have taken some beatings in Championship in the last two years. This has to play on the mind once again when they play Donegal.
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2013, 11:38:13 AM
Donegal have a pattern of destroying teams in the last 1/4 of the game.
If Down can stay in the game for 50 minutes and then score 4 quick goals, possibly they have a chance.
Nevertheless, I'll be rooting for the underdog to pull off some (ol' time aristocratic) magic in this game.
Donegal do this because once they get their noses in front, they pick teams off on the counter attack. It's pre-ordained, it's disciplined and it's very clever.
Given that they've got the edge in terms of personnel, I'd guess the only way for Down to beat Donegal is through tactical superiority, and to rigidly play our own defensive formation (even if five points down) and draw them out of their own shape. Almost the antithesis of the way football is traditionally played in Down.
Beyond that, it's a case of never, ever carry the ball into a tackle unless moving at a pace whereby any contact is going to see you tumbling into a heap, drawing a foul, and potentially a card.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2013, 10:12:53 PM
...Beyond that, it's a case of never, ever carry the ball into a tackle unless moving at a pace whereby any contact is going to see you tumbling into a heap, drawing a foul, and potentially a card....
Couldn't agree more with this. The ball should be run in and off-loaded just before the contact. That way a pass is delivered to a player running onto the ball and past the defender who has just committed to the passer. Pass too early and you do not give the receiver any room to run into, pass to late and you are surrounded.
Of course the referee has to take responsibility for awarding frees when a passer is taken out after off-loading. Donegal copped on that referees didn't care what happened after a pass and have systematically taken guys out , but I think there had been a lot of media hype and it isn't so easy any more. There was a lot of it from both Donegal and Tyrone in their game, probably even more so from Tyrone. With the coming advantage rule change, there will be a change as referees call play back for fouls of this nature when the receiver is surrounded and gets nowhere.
Having said that Donegal are also superb at clean tackling, I wouldn't want to be perceived as denigrating their fantastic defensive skills and commitment.
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 04, 2013, 03:17:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on June 04, 2013, 12:37:55 AM
Donegal 4-29
Down 0-5
(HT 1-6 to 0-5)
So your theory is that you lost to Donegal by six points, so automatically we must lose by way more! Because of course Tyrone are so far ahead of Down that there is no chance that we could actually get anywhere near to losing by as little as you did. That's a pretty arrogant position and it really does you no favours.
There is little merit in trying to denigrate other teams when your own team has just taken a lesson. O'Neill better you maybe just keep your head down and lick your wounds instead of trying to be a smart ass. It just makes you look childish
I enjoyed that.
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on June 04, 2013, 04:01:04 PM
23rd Jun 2013
14:00 Donegal v Down
1/6
10/1
5/1
there ye go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feck ye seafood ye beat me to it!!!!!!!!!
DUBLIN ARE 1/4!
Dublin are probably 10 to 1 in Naas with Kildare 1/20 .
;D
5/1 against Down in a two horse race are ridiculous odds :o :o :o
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 05, 2013, 08:54:44 AM
5/1 against Down in a two horse race are ridiculous odds :o :o :o
I thought that last year and look what happened.
Easiest £500 I will ever make
Quote from: supersub on June 05, 2013, 09:35:12 AM
Easiest £500 I will ever make
Do you fancy them that much supersub?
Yeah, 3 grand at 1/6 is a bargain ;)
Only messing, yeah I think they will turn them over (and that being a main tactic too)!
If we ignore Donegal's current form compared with their form last year (which we probably can't) I suppose the question is do we think Down are stronger this year than last?
What would be the reason for them being stronger?
1) Monya/improved fitness ?
2) Defence tightened ?
3) More experience playing against Donegal ?
4) Players like O'Hare with an extra year's valuable experience ?
I also like the notion of a GAA directive from on high to whatever referee to get the Donegal bullying etc stamped out with large swathes of red cards!
Given that the accepted knowledge is that Donegal will win this game at a canter.
Put yourself in JMcC's boots, what would you do to give your team the best chance of getting a result, all out defence? or how?
Serious question what is the best way to stop this Donegal juggernaut?
Serious question lads so keep the smart ass answers to a minimum ;)
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
Given that the accepted knowledge is that Donegal will win this game at a canter.
Put yourself in JMcC's boots, what would you do to give your team the best chance of getting a result, all out defence? or how?
Serious question what is the best way to stop this Donegal juggernaut?
Serious question lads so keep the smart ass answers to a minimum ;)
1 Speed
2 Accuracy from distance
3 Decent bench
4 Intensity for 70 mins
5 Total faith in yourself, the man standing beside you, & the sideline
In other words do what they do but be better at it. Tactics alone will not do it. I've been listening to fellas talking about figuring out the Donegal system & that's all very well but its psychologically they get you, they just are relentless & wear you down. I don't think it is something you can do on the training ground in a few weeks, it has to be your culture & be bred into you over a period of time.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 05, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
Given that the accepted knowledge is that Donegal will win this game at a canter.
Put yourself in JMcC's boots, what would you do to give your team the best chance of getting a result, all out defence? or how?
Serious question what is the best way to stop this Donegal juggernaut?
Serious question lads so keep the smart ass answers to a minimum ;)
tight, physical and very ugly a la Derry beating Tyrone a lock of years back. Down were being physical enough and 'vocal' enough on Sunday (Boyle / Doyle on Enda Lynn was way OTT in my book sledging wise), but would need to go to a whole new level of trench warfare to mix it with Donegal. Contrary to what a lot of folk think, Donegal are much more than ordinary / average players playing a system, they have top top players in all areas as well as being reborn attitude wise.
What about passing the ball about in yer own half until donegal come at ye and then lob the ball over the top of them.
A lot of people over the last 2 years have underestimated what the Donegal juggernaut is all about until they see it in action themselves. I was at both the Cork & Kerry v Donegal last year and both sets of fans all thought they would win after a good battle. They left dismayed & wondered was it a once off.
Most people rate Mickey Harte very highly tactically and he's failed now 3 years in the trot to find a way to beat their system. He said this year that they've actually improved on last year and I think he has shown that trying to beat them at their own game doesn't work either, unless you've got top quality full forwards who can work hard & win their own ball under extreme pressure. We don't.
One chink I notice is when they push up and lose possession they are very fast to give away a free and then delay that free being taken. They go to great costs to stop the ball being hit in early and sometimes when it does then they can be opened up. I've noticed a few times when the FF goes running out to get a ball, that if someone runs in the space he leaves behind him, especially down into one corner then that can be a way for a forward to find space in the scoring zone. The conventional method of kicking a ball into the FF line and a player coming out, getting it and either turning or laying it off looks like they've got that defended down to a tee.
Also, players who are fouled by them need to show the ref they are being impeded from taking the free quick. They need to gamble and kick it off the man standing in front of him or if he's grabbed yer leg like they did v Tyrone then the player needs to somehow let the ref know and not let them get away with these small but important delaying tactics.
I would love to see the Dubs play Donegal now as it would great to see the outcome of two very different styles. I'd love to see teams use the change to the square ball rule more often. We not lamp it in there at much more rather than this hand passing back and forth around the 40 waiting for an opening that is gonna happen.
I'd love to see the stats on McFadden championship games over the last 2 years.
He seems to be getting a goal and 3 or 4 points in a lot of games.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2013, 10:12:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2013, 11:38:13 AM
Donegal have a pattern of destroying teams in the last 1/4 of the game.
If Down can stay in the game for 50 minutes and then score 4 quick goals, possibly they have a chance.
Nevertheless, I'll be rooting for the underdog to pull off some (ol' time aristocratic) magic in this game.
Donegal do this because once they get their noses in front, they pick teams off on the counter attack. It's pre-ordained, it's disciplined and it's very clever.
Given that they've got the edge in terms of personnel, I'd guess the only way for Down to beat Donegal is through tactical superiority, and to rigidly play our own defensive formation (even if five points down) and draw them out of their own shape. Almost the antithesis of the way football is traditionally played in Down.
Beyond that, it's a case of never, ever carry the ball into a tackle unless moving at a pace whereby any contact is going to see you tumbling into a heap, drawing a foul, and potentially a card.
I would agree about how Donegal get a lead then sit their defensive screen back, suck you in to their web, turnover possession and then break at great speed. Therefore I think you would need to have some sort of a lead against them in the 3rd quarter to avoid this happening.
However I would take issue with the second bit: (1) Donegals system is that well honed and rehearsed that there is no way that Down can play Donegal at their own game and better it, a poor imitation would just not work (2) This traditional Down football that you talk about, I don't buy into that either. This perception that Down play this swashbuckling attacking football is not something I would buy into at all. Certainly McCartan could not be considered an attacking coach, its another myth put forward mostly by Down supporters themselves and some within the media.
Good post by Fuzzman. McQuillen is a joke when it comes to off-the ball incidents and slowing down play. Donegal will not get him again in the championship so their delaying tactics will get punished from here in. Fuzzman is right the opposition have to be more vocal/clear about this and push the referee into punishing this offence by always trying to take quick frees (even if they aren't really going to kick it).
As for how to beat Donegal - We do to them for 70 minutes what we did to them for 40 minutes last year. Down were only a few points behind Donegal and had them pretty much pushed back. It was at least even on general play. After we conceded the second goal from a break-away the heads dropped like a bunch of schoolboys and the fight went out of them. The famous thumping ensued. What Down did was push up fast with half backs overlapping the half forwards and the shots coming from distance. On turnover the half forwards chased back to impeded attacks until the half backs could swarm back to recover their positions. basically the hard working area was between the 45's. The Down full forward line served mostly just to push the Donegal defenders back a bit. We probably hadn't the fitness to maintain that approach for 70 minutes.
Tyrone continually hit the ball into their full-forward, it's no wonder they lost. Any team doing that will be snuffed out by Donegal. The only way is to match their fitness with both sets of half forwards and half-backs working together, all defending as six half-backs then all attacking as six half forwards. Rotate full forwards with half forwards to give players rest periods. Don't look for goals, take every point available, especially when behind. Every time you get sight of the posts from 25m, shoot! Most importantly - draw the man but then always off-load before contact.
I wondered last week, if the three players who didn't retreat far enough from Morgan's frees had blocked the shot, would the ref then have booked them?
As someone said, he had so much else to watch in near the box that he tended to forget about the free taker and the yards.
Stevie O'Neill and Sean Cava didn't seem to get a lot of shots away all day.
I think the writing was on the wall for Down last year even before McGlynn's goal. Donegal were already three points up, streaming forward and starting to turn the screw over the previous few minutes, after Down had had plenty of the play in the first half. McGlynn's goal didn't just come out of the blue: it was very much a product of the pressure on the Down backs and the growing dominance of Donegal at midfield over the previous minutes. (The goal came when Michael Murphy gathered a midfield break and sent McGlynn through on goal. McGlynn was up the field at that moment because he was after sending Mark McHugh charging through, except McHugh elected to take his point.) It was similar to the 3rd quarter period where we won the game against Cork, except we didn't stick the ball in the net.
I don't agree with that assessment at all. before McGlynn's goal Down scored a point to make it a two point game 1-09 to 0-10. We were totally in that match to that point. McHugh broke away for a point and then from kickout Donegal claimed possession and put in McGlynn to put six between them. But even then Down came back and got a 13m free. That free would have put 5 between them with 15 minutes to go. Doyler miss-hit the free, it was blocked on the line, Donegal broke from the back two passes and McFadden knocked over a free, to make it a 7 point game. Down heads dropped and we were thumped.
But until that blocked free Down were still competitive. At 5 points Down still were well in it but the sudden turnaround from 5 points to 7 in about 5 seconds was the clincher. That was the pivotal point where the players lost their heart, everything after that was academic.
The evidence is that Donegal, with Lacey and McHugh fit again, are practically at full strength and looking an even more formidable side than last year, when they ultimately crushed Down. It could be argued that both of Donegal's goals were against the run of play at the time, but, as soon as they eventually got into top gear, there was no holding them.
Down are definitely fitter and better organised than in 2012, with a range of players producing noticeably improved displays, but the injury list has been cruel. While you cannot legislate for young men like McComiskey and O'Hagan deciding to try a summer in the US, the loss of Gordon, Garvey, Carr, McParland and Doyle has completely undermined our defensive plans. Ambrose is back, and Hughes may not be far away, but our resources have probably been overstretched. However, 5/1 is still a hell of a price for a Down team which is high on confidence and has nothing to lose.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion Paul, but I seriously doubt if many would agree that Down were still in the game at five points down had the free not been missed. And I'd put my house on Donegal going on to win that game pulling up from three points up too even without the second goal. Down had played well, yet we were still starting to stretch away (unless you think Down were going to close that gap -I don't). Fair enough if you want to argue about the margin and Donegal running up the score, but we were always going to win that game with a few points to spare.
2 pts behind against Donegal is like 5pts behind to any other team, they are very hard to break down and scores in general are hard to come by
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 05, 2013, 09:41:37 PM
2 pts behind against Donegal is like 5pts behind to any other team, they are very hard to break down and scores in general are hard to come by
I think PaulD has the red tinted glasses on above, but this statement here is nonsense. Donegal with a two point lead are the same as every other team in the country; they're just one kick of a ball from being behind.
Donegal are good. They're even very good. But there's a lot of myths being formed about them at present.
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2013, 09:33:44 PM
You're obviously entitled to your opinion Paul, but I seriously doubt if many would agree that Down were still in the game at five points down had the free not been missed. And I'd put my house on Donegal going on to win that game pulling up from three points up too even without the second goal. Down had played well, yet we were still starting to stretch away (unless you think Down were going to close that gap -I don't). Fair enough if you want to argue about the margin and Donegal running up the score, but we were always going to win that game with a few points to spare.
In fairness if you read my post I said that we were still totally in the match when we reduced it to two points (45 minutes). That was before the second goal.
I then said that it was not the goal itself but the missed 13m free that saw the players collapse and a huge margin being run up. At two points down we were still in the game and had a roughly equal share of possession. If the players hadn't thrown in the towel so quickly I believe the 5 point gap would have been too much to close but we wouldn't have been outscored 12 points to 3.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 05, 2013, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 05, 2013, 09:41:37 PM
2 pts behind against Donegal is like 5pts behind to any other team, they are very hard to break down and scores in general are hard to come by
I think PaulD has the red tinted glasses on above, but this statement here is nonsense. Donegal with a two point lead are the same as every other team in the country; they're just one kick of a ball from being behind.
Donegal are good. They're even very good. But there's a lot of myths being formed about them at present.
This is something I have noticed myself this year. Whether it is JMcG playin g more mind games or not I don't know but there is no doubt that if your opposition thinks you are unbeatable then the job is half done. We saw this with Westmeath against Dublin last Sunday, Kilkenny have the same thing & Kerry used to have it. Tiger Woods & Muhammad Ali were other sports people who had this unbeatable aura around them. Opponents just stand back, admire you & take their beating. This air of invincibility is hard earned but if you have it, it makes life a lot easier.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 06, 2013, 10:09:09 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 05, 2013, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 05, 2013, 09:41:37 PM
2 pts behind against Donegal is like 5pts behind to any other team, they are very hard to break down and scores in general are hard to come by
I think PaulD has the red tinted glasses on above, but this statement here is nonsense. Donegal with a two point lead are the same as every other team in the country; they're just one kick of a ball from being behind.
Donegal are good. They're even very good. But there's a lot of myths being formed about them at present.
This is something I have noticed myself this year. Whether it is JMcG playin g more mind games or not I don't know but there is no doubt that if your opposition thinks you are unbeatable then the job is half done. We saw this with Westmeath against Dublin last Sunday, Kilkenny have the same thing & Kerry used to have it. Tiger Woods & Muhammad Ali were other sports people who had this unbeatable aura around them. Opponents just stand back, admire you & take their beating. This air of invincibility is hard earned but if you have it, it makes life a lot easier.
I think you are right. I can't ever remember a team that is seen as basically unbeatable in championship football, and since last year you got the feeling that Donegal were going to win no matter who they were playing and its the same this year. It has infected the average person and its bound to have hit the minds of the opposition which as you say, half wins the battle. Donegal seem to be the best prepared team tactically ever which has resulted in unreal levels of consistency. The days of winning by playing the best football seem to be gone. They seem that strong at the minute that its evident that JMcG has this team so well moulded that it is not reliant on any individual. Each man has a job to do and if he is unavailable then another man can come in and fit into the 'system' as everyone likes to call it. I have no doubt that if JMcG managed any one of the Division 1 teams this year he would win the All Ireland with them within 2 years. No matter how good individuals are on the opposing team, they are snuffed out as the collective sum of the Donegal players playing to strong tactics will over power an individual (no matter how brilliant) most days.
I think Donegal will settle for narrow win no need show their full hand yet. Down good enough to reach the last eight?
Certainly
Teams get their chances during games.
I think it was Donnely who went for a point instead of a goal for Tyrone in the 1st round. There were also a few point chances that Tyrone seemed ro refuse in that game and the window suddenly closed.
Teams like Cork & Kerry took very difficult angled shots last year but they missed alot of very scorable points as well. Teams just seem to panic around the 20-30 yd line and run into tackles.
Maybe it's psychological maybe it's the intensity.
I do think our defence makes mistakes like any other back line it's just that the opposition never really capitalize.
I agree with the myth synopsis and also Bluestack's point about it being in the oppositions heads making it easier. Fuzzy made some good points also and would have to agree with him that defensively Jim's approach has often been cynical but, alot of that was born out of being a nice little team for years who would rather let the oppositions dance there way through defence than foul them i guess.
Around match weeks I often hear young lads in the pubs , chipper shops etc talk about the defence being 'impenetrable'. It's good but it's not that!
I remember when Ireland went to the Euros the same young lads would be saying that about the Irish defence and Dunne and Given etc etc but that myth was quickly exposed as a bit of an over hype.
Donegal do loose possession going forward alot and once a team learn to capitalise ruthlessly on that, it's where alot of the points are.
Imo the best equipped teams to do that atm are Dublin Cork & Mayo . Tyrone gave it a good go but maybe year too early.
Brolly is ironically helping distribute the myth somewhat in his articles!!
Sooner or later, Donegal will enter the final third of a match a couple of points behind, and they will have to chase the game instead of controlling it. That's when we'll find out just how good they are. I hope it's against Down!
Quote from: thewobbler on June 07, 2013, 07:57:18 AM
Sooner or later, Donegal will enter the final third of a match a couple of points behind, and they will have to chase the game instead of controlling it. That's when we'll find out just how good they are. I hope it's against Down!
This is another myth about Donegal. That they've never had to chase down a lead. Against Kildare ... against Tyrone ... ?
Now I'll admit that it hasn't happened that often but there's this perception out there that the lads will be turning in confusion to the sideline looking for instructions on what to do if we are behind. They'll keep doing what they always do.
And I'd suggest we've already found out how good Donegal are. Plenty of teams have had to chance to make us chase a lead - not our fault that so far few have been able to do it.
There's certainly an awful lot of shite talked about Donegal and the "system". I genuinely shudder to think of the stuff that will be written when we are beaten. All the same media people who are fuelling the current myths will rip us to shreds. Is it just an Irish thing I wonder? When a team wins, the importance of the win is exaggerated completed, when they lose, the criticism is way over the top.
Quote from: RMDrive on June 07, 2013, 08:26:06 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 07, 2013, 07:57:18 AM
Sooner or later, Donegal will enter the final third of a match a couple of points behind, and they will have to chase the game instead of controlling it. That's when we'll find out just how good they are. I hope it's against Down!
This is another myth about Donegal. That they've never had to chase down a lead. Against Kildare ... against Tyrone ... ?
Now I'll admit that it hasn't happened that often but there's this perception out there that the lads will be turning in confusion to the sideline looking for instructions on what to do if we are behind. They'll keep doing what they always do.
And I'd suggest we've already found out how good Donegal are. Plenty of teams have had to chance to make us chase a lead - not our fault that so far few have been able to do it.
There's certainly an awful lot of shite talked about Donegal and the "system". I genuinely shudder to think of the stuff that will be written when we are beaten. All the same media people who are fuelling the current myths will rip us to shreds. Is it just an Irish thing I wonder? When a team wins, the importance of the win is exaggerated completed, when they lose, the criticism is way over the top.
RM, I'm not suggesting that the players will be confused and looking for instructions from the sideline. But there has been a pattern in Donegal's play over the past few years that they finish games strongly due to a structured way of playing; once they get a few points ahead after half time, it's about picking teams off on the counter attack as their opponents begin to throw numbers forward.
It is human instinct to push forward when chasing a lead, and what'll be interesting is whether Donegal are disciplined enough to control these instincts, or go hell for leather. They've not thrown caution to the wind since McGuinness came in charge, as they've not had to.
While you might consider an awful lot of shite being talked about their system, there is undeniably a system in place, and one that is probably as finely tuned as we've seen in Gaelic Games. I've no doubt that McGuinness and Gallagher have a Plan B, and that it has been worked on in training and in lectures. But we've yet to see it in Championship football.
My sources say Breffni Park is confirmed venue.
QuoteMy sources say Breffni Park is confirmed venue.
This does not seem sensible, many punters would be heading through Clones to get to Cavan!
Quote from: armaghniac on June 07, 2013, 03:43:41 PM
QuoteMy sources say Breffni Park is confirmed venue.
This does not seem sensible, many punters would be heading through Clones to get to Cavan!
Any Donegal or Down men going through Clones to get to Cavan would need to update the old satnav maps as Clones is north east of Cavan ;D ;D ;D
BSB, You should get the money back on your satnav. Any Downman north of Castlewellan will be going through Armagh,Monaghan, Clones to get to Cavan. Furthest Ulster venue for most of us and it's supposed to be neutral. Great town all the same.
QuoteBSB, You should get the money back on your satnav. Any Downman north of Castlewellan will be going through Armagh,Monaghan, Clones to get to Cavan. Furthest Ulster venue for most of us and it's supposed to be neutral. Great town all the same.
I expect BluestackBoy doesn't get out much.
All of Down is North-East Of Cavan and persons from Inishowen/ N Donegal might well go via Monaghan and Clones.
In fairness Cavan is pretty neutral, it isn't near anywhere!
I stand hugely corrected ::) ::) ::)
Having seen the responses to my post I dug an atlas out & couldn't believe how much Ireland has changed over the years!!!!!!!!
Put it down to the ramblings of an old man whose mind is slowly but surely slipping away :-[ :-[ :-[
Quote from: armaghniac on June 07, 2013, 08:04:50 PM
QuoteBSB, You should get the money back on your satnav. Any Downman north of Castlewellan will be going through Armagh,Monaghan, Clones to get to Cavan. Furthest Ulster venue for most of us and it's supposed to be neutral. Great town all the same.
I expect BluestackBoy doesn't get out much.
All of Down is North-East Of Cavan and persons from Inishowen/ N Donegal might well go via Monaghan and Clones.
In fairness Cavan is pretty neutral, it isn't near anywhere!
It's too near us.
Apparently Lacey had minor knee surgery on Thursday and is doubtful for this game.
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2013, 02:16:15 PM
Apparently Lacey had minor knee surgery on Thursday and is doubtful for this game.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that he will not play.
which knee ? ;)
Quote from: RMDrive on June 09, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2013, 02:16:15 PM
Apparently Lacey had minor knee surgery on Thursday and is doubtful for this game.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that he will not play.
It's not confirmed but he's a big doubt. Will mean young Declan walsh will get another start in the championship. Declan is a very capable defender and will be able to do the job jim asks of him
Lacey, Neil Gallagher & Frank McGlynn struggling. Last year this would have been more of a problem but the bench has strengthened considerably during the winter. If we get over Down I would be happy enough to have these lads bsck by the QF.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 09, 2013, 06:04:43 PM
Lacey, Neil Gallagher & Frank McGlynn struggling. Last year this would have been more of a problem but the bench has strengthened considerably during the winter. If we get over Down I would be happy enough to have these lads bsck by the QF.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves! We wouldn't be appearing unopposed in the Ulster Final!
Quote from: donegal lad on June 09, 2013, 04:34:43 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on June 09, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2013, 02:16:15 PM
Apparently Lacey had minor knee surgery on Thursday and is doubtful for this game.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that he will not play.
It's not confirmed but he's a big doubt. Will mean young Declan walsh will get another start in the championship. Declan is a very capable defender and will be able to do the job jim asks of him
Corner forward?
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2013, 06:50:21 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on June 09, 2013, 04:34:43 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on June 09, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 09, 2013, 02:16:15 PM
Apparently Lacey had minor knee surgery on Thursday and is doubtful for this game.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that he will not play.
It's not confirmed but he's a big doubt. Will mean young Declan walsh will get another start in the championship. Declan is a very capable defender and will be able to do the job jim asks of him
Corner forward?
You are thinking on the other walsh in the squad David walsh. The game is now confirmed to be taking place in Cavan on 23rd June
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
Quote from: armaghniac on June 07, 2013, 08:04:50 PM
QuoteBSB, You should get the money back on your satnav. Any Downman north of Castlewellan will be going through Armagh,Monaghan, Clones to get to Cavan. Furthest Ulster venue for most of us and it's supposed to be neutral. Great town all the same.
I expect BluestackBoy doesn't get out much.
All of Down is North-East Of Cavan and persons from Inishowen/ N Donegal might well go via Monaghan and Clones.
In fairness Cavan is pretty neutral, it isn't near anywhere!
People from South Down most certainly shouldn't be going through Clones to get to Breffni Park. Dundalk or Crossmaglen, Carrickmacross, Shercock, Cootehill or Bailieborough, and then Cavan should be their route.
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Only this last wee while. Lacey wasn't much talked about 3 or 4 years ago when Donegal were at a low ebb.
I don't think Turley is the man to play sweeper, if James deploys one. Against Derry I thought he got in McArdles way quite a bit, which helped Bradley gain more room. What's the latest with Aiden Carr?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 12, 2013, 11:02:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Only this last wee while. Lacey wasn't much talked about 3 or 4 years ago when Donegal were at a low ebb.
Are you joking?
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2013, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 12, 2013, 11:02:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Only this last wee while. Lacey wasn't much talked about 3 or 4 years ago when Donegal were at a low ebb.
Are you joking?
Yes, clearly I was
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 12, 2013, 11:02:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Only this last wee while. Lacey wasn't much talked about 3 or 4 years ago when Donegal were at a low ebb.
Yeah, he was only arguably the best man marker around, with two All Stars in 06 and 09, playing in an average team.
Quote from: J70 on June 12, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 12, 2013, 11:02:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: naka on June 09, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Lacey could be a big loss if down could get their full back line sorted they would be in with a shout
How long has that been said for though?
Only this last wee while. Lacey wasn't much talked about 3 or 4 years ago when Donegal were at a low ebb.
Yeah, he was only arguably the best man marker around, with two All Stars in 06 and 09, playing in an average team.
You boys are easy sidetracked from talking about the Down defence. I hope the down defence aren't as easy sidetracked.
jim mcguinness more or less confirmed today tat we will be with Lacey and Gallagher for this game. Both are struggling with knee injuries. Strange decision by ulster council to make the game an all ticket affair just giving the county boards and clubs more work when it not necessary as Cavan holds over 30000
Can see Donegal having this wrapped up at half time.
Quote from: ONeill on June 14, 2013, 09:55:42 PM
Can see Donegal having this wrapped up at half time.
Surely if they're to do anything at all it wont be at half time. first or second half be as good a time as any til do whatever Donegal had in mind.
There is an awful lot of optimism among Down fans that I have been talking to which is entirely misplaced imo. I'd be surprised if Down get within 5 points of Donegal on Sunday. McKernan had the freedom to make 40 yard solo runs against Derry, if he gets to run 10 yards against Donegal I'd be surprised, look at Sean Cavanagh's ineffectiveness and he is a better player than McKernan.
There'll be battles going all on over the field....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Francois_Dubois_001.jpg/640px-Francois_Dubois_001.jpg)
Pretty sure McCartan is just facing up to the fact, that lets face it lads, Donegal are CLASS. The way McGuinness has taken them to an amazing level of fitness, skill and physiological strength is incredible. They train like demons nearly every day of the week, and last year, they reaped their richly deserved rewards. Fair play to them. As for down, I reckon they are (obviously) trying to play themselves down so that donegal will become complacent, but in my humble opinion, that's not going to work. McGuiness is too canny for that one. I'd say down are going to try and attack donegal physically, but they will be no match for them. Hon the lads!!!
No one in Down expects to beat donegal.
we hope we perform better than in last years Ulster Final, but i dont know of any optimistic Down fans.
Donegals superior fitness and system will win them the game. Down conceded 1.15 against Derry so i would expect us to concede more against the All Ireland champions.
Will it be possible to buy stand tickets at the stiles in cavan on Sunday?
Quote from: Ruby Molloy on June 18, 2013, 04:23:42 PM
Will it be possible to buy stand tickets at the stiles in cavan on Sunday?
Definitely not. Down clubs are only getting 12 stand tickets each. As far as I know you will have to buy terrace tickets in advance as well. There will be no tickets on sale on the day unless the UC change their plans. Best get yourself along to your local Supervalu.
Stand ticket sorted through the seasonticket, great job again.
What is the main terrace in Breffni called. Tickets.ie are selling only south and east terrace??
Quote from: snoopdog on June 19, 2013, 11:45:48 AM
What is the main terrace in Breffni called. Tickets.ie are selling only south and east terrace??
As far as i know you can access any terrace after you enter the ground itself.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
There is an awful lot of optimism among Down fans that I have been talking to which is entirely misplaced imo. I'd be surprised if Down get within 5 points of Donegal on Sunday. McKernan had the freedom to make 40 yard solo runs against Derry, if he gets to run 10 yards against Donegal I'd be surprised, look at Sean Cavanagh's ineffectiveness and he is a better player than McKernan.
McKernan won't have the same impact against Donegal but Cavanagh was stuck at number 11 the last day and that position doesn't suit him, add on to that the fact that when playing midfield you aren;t as tightly marked as you are when playing in a forward position.
Quote from: cluaineois on June 19, 2013, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on June 19, 2013, 11:45:48 AM
What is the main terrace in Breffni called. Tickets.ie are selling only south and east terrace??
As far as i know you can access any terrace after you enter the ground itself.
True from any entrance from the top of the hill to the bottom. Wide open spaces. East terrace opposite main stand.
Quote from: 5 Sams on June 18, 2013, 08:49:45 PM
Quote from: Ruby Molloy on June 18, 2013, 04:23:42 PM
Definitely not. Down clubs are only getting 12 stand tickets each. As far as I know you will have to buy terrace tickets in advance as well. There will be no tickets on sale on the day unless the UC change their plans. Best get yourself along to your local Supervalu.
Thanks a million for your help.
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 19, 2013, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 19, 2013, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on June 19, 2013, 11:45:48 AM
What is the main terrace in Breffni called. Tickets.ie are selling only south and east terrace??
As far as i know you can access any terrace after you enter the ground itself.
True from any entrance from the top of the hill to the bottom. Wide open spaces. East terrace opposite main stand.
Cheers Folks
Hi guys,
Tactical preview of the game now up http://action81.com/blog/?p=7347
Thanks,
Emmet
Good article Emmett.
Odds a little wide for two division one sides?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 20, 2013, 02:59:17 PM
Odds a little wide for two division one sides?
They were the exact same odds as last year's Ulster final.
Down have never, in my(considerable) life-time been 5 to 1 going into a game.
QuoteDown have never, in my(considerable) life-time been 5 to 1 going into a game.
If the bookies are overturned in the semis, you'd have a traditional Down-Cavan final. One last outing for the Ancien Régime. The BBC could show it in 405 line black and white.
That Down defence worries me, in fact it gives me nightmares.
They're plenty capable of getting enough scores to trouble Donegal but totally incapable of keeping concessions down to a reasonable enough amount to be in with a chance of winning.
Will there be close to a full house at this match, it would be great to see Breffni full. I don't believe it ever has been since its new stands/terraces were built
Your own defence is hardly the stuff of blissful dreaming ::)
Latest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal. That can't be correct, can it? ???
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 20, 2013, 08:08:13 PM
Your own defence is hardly the stuff of blissful dreaming ::)
Ah, the great excuser - 'sure what would you know, you're county's terrible too!'
You didn't deny the point, though. Down's defence need a vintage performance above and beyond anything we've seen in years from them for the team to have a shot at this one.
Quote from: western exile on June 20, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
Latest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal. That can't be correct, can it? ???
Was told last night there was 19000 tickets sold overall. And see there is no tickets available online today so would imagine it will be near a full house
how big a loss will Gallagher prove to be for Donegal. may swing midfield in Downs favour?
Quote from: Syferus on June 20, 2013, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 20, 2013, 08:08:13 PM
Your own defence is hardly the stuff of blissful dreaming ::)
Ah, the great excuser - 'sure what would you know, you're county's terrible too!'
You didn't deny the point, though. Down's defence need a vintage performance above and beyond anything we've seen in years from them for the team to have a shot at this one.
It is a great excuser because it's so simple even the youngest in society can ably understand! Beginning in the playground with "when you point at someone you've three fingers poining back at yourself" later in life it becomes "pot, kettle and black".
I didn't and don't deny your point, I'm just making clear your pot is very, very, very much blacker than my kettle.
Quote from: donegal lad on June 20, 2013, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: western exile on June 20, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
Latest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal. That can't be correct, can it? ???
Was told last night there was 19000 tickets sold overall. And see there is no tickets available online today so would imagine it will be near a full house
I wasn't doubting the total number sold. I was surprised about the disproportionate ratio
Quote from: western exile on June 20, 2013, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on June 20, 2013, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: western exile on June 20, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
Latest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal. That can't be correct, can it? ???
Was told last night there was 19000 tickets sold overall. And see there is no tickets available online today so would imagine it will be near a full house
I wasn't doubting the total number sold. I was surprised about the disproportionate ratio
I wasn't doubting your figurs just adding info to them. Know donegals original allocation was around 9000 mark and ticket sales in the super values in the county have been steady so the 13500 figure migh be about right be very surprised if down only sold 4500 though that's only half their original allocation
It would actually seem that them figures are correct. Down gaa were appealing to supporters to go buy tickets today on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484242191650829&set=pb.112290905512628.-2207520000.1371769630.&type=3&theater
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
I remember being one of maybe 200 Donegal people in Newbridge for a qualifier in 2001. Like most counties, we have a hard core of supporters, and various grades who will come out as the team gets more successful.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
Was probably about 500-1000 of us at that game. We were at rock bottom that year and was the hardcore that made the journey
Quote from: donegal lad on June 21, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
Was probably about 500-1000 of us at that game. We were at rock bottom that year and was the hardcore that made the journey
Ye big lads thinking a few down years are rock bottom. You should ask small counties like Roscommon and Galway about rock bottom.
Quote from: Syferus on June 21, 2013, 12:46:34 AM
Quote from: donegal lad on June 21, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
Was probably about 500-1000 of us at that game. We were at rock bottom that year and was the hardcore that made the journey
Ye big lads thinking a few down years are rock bottom. You should ask small counties like Roscommon and Galway about rock bottom.
Laughable alright, rockbottom sure didnt you take the All Ireland finalists that year to extra time and could have beaten them.
Is anyone predicting a Down win? I'm trying to convince myself..
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 21, 2013, 09:06:32 AM
Is anyone predicting a Down win? I'm trying to convince myself..
It takes a bit of convincing to imagine a Down win.
Bookies have been wrong before.
Any guesses as to how that Down team named will actually line out? Personally, Im a lot more worried about McFadden that Murphy. Then throw McBrearty into the mix.
A lot will come down to how James and his team go about this game. If we play our normal game I can only see a Donegal win.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 21, 2013, 09:04:47 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 21, 2013, 12:46:34 AM
Quote from: donegal lad on June 21, 2013, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
QuoteLatest reports are that 4,500 tickets have been sold in Co. Down, so far, and 13,500 sold in Co. Donegal
There wasn't 1350 from Donegal in Cross' 3 years ago. Support seems to be growing in Tír Chonaill! The train from Bundoran will be packed.
Was probably about 500-1000 of us at that game. We were at rock bottom that year and was the hardcore that made the journey
Ye big lads thinking a few down years are rock bottom. You should ask small counties like Roscommon and Galway about rock bottom.
Laughable alright, rockbottom sure didnt you take the All Ireland finalists that year to extra time and could have beaten them.
Rock bottom in terms of supporters travelling. Your right we did bring the ai finalist to extra time that year but its a game we should of won and would of only for stupid changes from the management
Whilst I genuinely think Donegal will win this game in 2nd gear, I'd love to see Down come out all guns blazing and try to build up an early lead.
Tyrone have not managed this in the last 3 years mainly because we haven't been accurate enough in front of goals. I think this year particularly there seemed to be the body language of too much respect and fear of the Donegal machine even before the game started.
Hope Down try to rise above that and go hell for leather with nothing to lose.
Frustration for forwards is the biggest problems most teams face when playing Donegal but I suspect Donegal will be much less defensive now they've got past the first round and they'll open up and play a much more attacking brand of football.
Down by 5
In February we played Doengal in Ballyboofey. Donegal were not the effective unit that they are famed to be for about the whole of the first half. They started without Gallagher and Lacey. The big change came in the second half when they introduced Neil Gallagher. Then Donegal won midfield and dominated us.
All the players who lined out against Down played against Tyrone except Ryan McHugh at corner back who was replaced by McGrath. Against Tyrone, Donegal brought on Mark McHugh who started against us. They were also able to bring on Lacey. Most importantly Gallagher played the whole match and dominated midfield.
As I said the big change came when Gallagher won midfield, prior to that Down were doing ok against what has now been shown to be about 12-13 of the Donegal championship side.
Since then Gallagher has become unavailable and Lacey will not be there either. But Down have strengthened with the return of Ambrose, Benny (who didn't start in Ballyboofey), the introduction of the strong looking Madine, and the possible availability of Danny Hughes.
Look I am not going to be foolish. I expect a Donegal victory but my point is that we are not so far behind them as is being made out. We are certainly not that far behind Tyrone. Donegal are missing a critical man and Down have several returned. I believe fully that Down could still be in a tight match with ten minutes to go. I think Donegal will have too much but I do not think that it is inevitable that Down will be over-run.
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 21, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
In February we played Doengal in Ballyboofey. Donegal were not the effective unit that they are famed to be for about the whole of the first half. They started without Gallagher and Lacey. The big change came in the second half when they introduced Neil Gallagher. Then Donegal won midfield and dominated us.
All the players who lined out against Down played against Tyrone except Ryan McHugh at corner back who was replaced by McGrath. Against Tyrone, Donegal brought on Mark McHugh who started against us. They were also able to bring on Lacey. Most importantly Gallagher played the whole match and dominated midfield.
As I said the big change came when Gallagher won midfield, prior to that Down were doing ok against what has now been shown to be about 12-13 of the Donegal championship side.
Since then Gallagher has become unavailable and Lacey will not be there either. But Down have strengthened with the return of Ambrose, Benny (who didn't start in Ballyboofey), the introduction of the strong looking Madine, and the possible availability of Danny Hughes.
Look I am not going to be foolish. I expect a Donegal victory but my point is that we are not so far behind them as is being made out. We are certainly not that far behind Tyrone. Donegal are missing a critical man and Down have several returned. I believe fully that Down could still be in a tight match with ten minutes to go. I think Donegal will have too much but I do not think that it is inevitable that Down will be over-run.
I just don't see why people even reckon Down will get close to Donegal. They are an average side who have not beaten any of the top teams over the past 10 years (apart from catching Tyrone on the hop in 2008 and beating a severely understrength Kerry team in 2010).
Bit of a contradiction above.
Quote from: southdown on June 21, 2013, 01:38:27 PM
Bit of a contradiction above.
I was simply pointing out the two arguments Down fans would have to try and back up any claims of big wins. My argument would be that since the new millenium Down have done little of note and apart from beating an under-strength Kerry in 2010 they got a handy run to an All Ireland final. They have consistently been found out in Ulster when facing the better sides and have not really done anything of note.
A down win would be great for the championship. Hopefully they go out and give it a real go. They'll have to get stuck in to Donegal and take their chances. There's a risk of teams at the minute being beaten by Donegal before the game such is the hype round them. Down need to be totally convinced they're as good as Donegal. There is a chance that Down have actually improved from last year. They looked fitter and have a few new players in. I don't believe a Down win is as impossible as some think albeit it is unlikely.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 21, 2013, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 21, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
In February we played Doengal in Ballyboofey. Donegal were not the effective unit that they are famed to be for about the whole of the first half. They started without Gallagher and Lacey. The big change came in the second half when they introduced Neil Gallagher. Then Donegal won midfield and dominated us.
All the players who lined out against Down played against Tyrone except Ryan McHugh at corner back who was replaced by McGrath. Against Tyrone, Donegal brought on Mark McHugh who started against us. They were also able to bring on Lacey. Most importantly Gallagher played the whole match and dominated midfield.
As I said the big change came when Gallagher won midfield, prior to that Down were doing ok against what has now been shown to be about 12-13 of the Donegal championship side.
Since then Gallagher has become unavailable and Lacey will not be there either. But Down have strengthened with the return of Ambrose, Benny (who didn't start in Ballyboofey), the introduction of the strong looking Madine, and the possible availability of Danny Hughes.
Look I am not going to be foolish. I expect a Donegal victory but my point is that we are not so far behind them as is being made out. We are certainly not that far behind Tyrone. Donegal are missing a critical man and Down have several returned. I believe fully that Down could still be in a tight match with ten minutes to go. I think Donegal will have too much but I do not think that it is inevitable that Down will be over-run.
I just don't see why people even reckon Down will get close to Donegal. They are an average side who have not beaten any of the top teams over the past 10 years (apart from catching Tyrone on the hop in 2008 and beating a severely understrength Kerry team in 2010).
Do teams be caught on the hop in replays (and with extra time in the replays)?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 21, 2013, 03:21:34 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 21, 2013, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 21, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
In February we played Doengal in Ballyboofey. Donegal were not the effective unit that they are famed to be for about the whole of the first half. They started without Gallagher and Lacey. The big change came in the second half when they introduced Neil Gallagher. Then Donegal won midfield and dominated us.
All the players who lined out against Down played against Tyrone except Ryan McHugh at corner back who was replaced by McGrath. Against Tyrone, Donegal brought on Mark McHugh who started against us. They were also able to bring on Lacey. Most importantly Gallagher played the whole match and dominated midfield.
As I said the big change came when Gallagher won midfield, prior to that Down were doing ok against what has now been shown to be about 12-13 of the Donegal championship side.
Since then Gallagher has become unavailable and Lacey will not be there either. But Down have strengthened with the return of Ambrose, Benny (who didn't start in Ballyboofey), the introduction of the strong looking Madine, and the possible availability of Danny Hughes.
Look I am not going to be foolish. I expect a Donegal victory but my point is that we are not so far behind them as is being made out. We are certainly not that far behind Tyrone. Donegal are missing a critical man and Down have several returned. I believe fully that Down could still be in a tight match with ten minutes to go. I think Donegal will have too much but I do not think that it is inevitable that Down will be over-run.
I just don't see why people even reckon Down will get close to Donegal. They are an average side who have not beaten any of the top teams over the past 10 years (apart from catching Tyrone on the hop in 2008 and beating a severely understrength Kerry team in 2010).
Do teams be caught on the hop in replays (and with extra time in the replays)?
Tyrone weren't at the races at that period of time in 2008. They regrouped and the Tyrone team that progressed through that summer was a different animal altogether.
Donegal will have an off day on Sunday yet scrape through. The adrenaline was pumpin v Tyrone but they will struggle to get the same levels of intensity on Sunday
A down win would be great for the championship. I do believe they have a squeak of a chance but they need all their big players to hit form on the one day.
really fancy my mourne neighbours in this one
down by 2
down will need a couple of goals though
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 31, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
Of course (and I'm not saying this is fair excuse, or it is reasonable) a dry pitch would have made, and will make, a hell of a difference to this Down team. Blah blah blah, yeah I know it probably sounds boring and you’re probably thinking it’s the same old tired excuse but in over twenty years I have never seen Down play well in the rain. Yeah I know it’s a pathetic excuse but I can only say what I see. You will only see if we are any good on a dry hard pitch.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 31, 2011, 08:37:38 PM
Sadly, it is true that Down have seldom played decent championship football in wet conditions over the last couple of decades. We beat Donegal during a downpour at Clones in 96, but they had a man sent over in the first minute, their goalkeeper was judged to have carried a harmless ball over his line and we were hanging on by a point at the end. The only other success in really bad weather I can recall was against Laois at Newry in the 09 qualifiers.
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/464_zps416d71ca.jpg)
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/465_zps1735bba3.jpg)
The last thing this Down team and Their management need is another hammering in championship football.
Management will have run out of road surely if that were to happen ?
I can't see Down getting the mauling they got in Clones last year.
Quote from: orangeman on June 22, 2013, 01:08:28 AM
The last thing this Down team and Their management need is another hammering in championship football.
Management will have run out of road surely if that were to happen ?
I can't see Down getting the mauling they got in Clones last year.
Familiarity breeds contempt but Down were going no where before McCartan and would be smart to hold on to the management team they've got no matter what happens on Sunday.
Quote from: orangeman on June 22, 2013, 01:08:28 AM
The last thing this Down team and Their management need is another hammering in championship football.
Management will have run out of road surely if that were to happen ?
I can't see Down getting the mauling they got in Clones last year.
The amount of players they have lost since 2010 it would be hard to gain momentum, year by year. They had a great win against Derry.
10 players from the 2010 panel, either injured or left the country through emigration. Bar Dublin not many counties could afford to lose that many.
Miserable day in the west; I presume it'll be no different in Cavan. I was disappointed that a season ticket didn't even get me under the cover in Breffni today - I'm expecting a soaking.
Safe travels to all.
Championship day optimism has kicked in and I can see us sneaking a win here today. I was very impressed with Madine last day out I hope he picks up where he left off against Derry and that King and McKernan win the midfield tussle. Im not sure who will pick up Murphy but Im sure James has some plan in place.
Donegal to win by six points.
Quote from: ardtole on June 23, 2013, 10:48:19 AM
Championship day optimism has kicked in and I can see us sneaking a win here today. I was very impressed with Madine last day out I hope he picks up where he left off against Derry and that King and McKernan win the midfield tussle. Im not sure who will pick up Murphy but Im sure James has some plan in place.
Plans are all well and good but you need to have the personnel to implement them. Down don't have anybody capable of marking Murphy. Nor do they have anybody capable of marking McBrearty. Nor do they have anybody capable of marking McFadden. Combine all three of these and it will most likely spell disaster. Down's only hope is to completely dominate midfield but even that probably wouldn't be enough as Donegal will switch to short 20-30yard kick-outs to men in space if they are being bettered in midfield.
Hope Down can make a game of it with big performances from their big players McKernan/King/Rodgers/Poland/Laverty/Coulter/O'Hare but I just can't see it happening.
Donegal by 10-12pts.
After the Derry game i thought Down could give Donegal a game of it, but the closer the game i cant see anything but Donegal winning pulling up though the way donegal play that could mean only 5/6pts in it but a very comfortable margin to the way they play
Game delayed by 5 mins, looks like a big crowd in Breffni
SHOULD TOOK IT TO CLONES
Good to see Spillane has been given a rest from afternoon duties on The Sunday Game. :D
This game so far is the nearest thing I've ever seen to a Rugby League game.
Could someone stick up scores? I can't access tv and bbc radio ulster coverage not working for me. Cheers.
2nd min - Ref gives free out against Benny Coulter for non existent push
5th min - Ref gives free in to Donegal for Down doing the exact same thing Donegal defenders have done for previous 4 minutes
5th min - Ref moves ball in 13 metres to make sure Donegal score from resulting free
Our retention of the ball in contact is nothing short of pathetic
Ref consistently ignoring Donegal fouls, throws, etc. Joke.
14th min - Coulter pushed clearly in back but not given free until 10 seconds later when he is fouled again
Ref being extremely harsh on Down. FFS, Down man clearly pulled back when about to pick up the ball, and Coulter was definitely fouled before the free in was eventually given.
Donegal 4 to 1 up, 16 mins
Donegal is much the better team they don't this amount of help from the ref
Down playing well! They are doing their best to play Donegal at their own game. Will take allot of disciple and patience. Important not to panic and keep in the game.
Lots of soft frees to Donegal.
19th min - Clear throw ball by Donegal defender 20 metres from Donegal goal = play on
20th min - 4 Down defenders surround Doengal foward who flops to the ground under little contact 30 metres from goal = free in
Jesus, you seemingly can't touch Michael Murphy without giving away a free. A joke of a decision.
Very much so Ger
22 min - Donegal player touches ball on ground = Donegal free
Feck referee is kak! Giving Donegal all the decisions!
Ref is riding down out of it. He's a w**ker.
ref certainly favouring donegal so far
As disgusting as the ref's been, we've been incredibly stupid in the mistakes we've been making. Our own worst enemy. Pretty typical when we play in these conditions it must be said.
Wonder what Brolly will say (if anything) about this ref.
Martin Carney is making my head hurt
So to speak
Down have not even had an attempt at the posts from play. They are as crap as the ref!
6 to 3Donegal 27 mins
Quote from: Tubberman on June 23, 2013, 02:34:05 PM
Wonder what Brolly will say (if anything) about this ref.
Ah, he won't want to offend his 'Donegal Contact'! :'(
Quote from: Minder on June 23, 2013, 02:35:25 PM
Martin Carney is making my head hurt
So to speak
Yeah, I switched over to the BBC. Oisin much better!
This is hard shit to watch .ref is muck
Another clear pick off the ground!
29th min - Another clear throw ball from Donegal = play on
20 frees in 28mins !!
Surprising amount of room there for Poland. Good score.
This ref is the worse I have seen this year if we touch a donegal player it's a foul yet they can mug us and no free
Given how poor we've been, how many stupid mistakes we've made and how biased the ref's been, I am flabbergasted we're only 2 points down. Think we have the wind this half though.
Quote from: Collins on June 23, 2013, 02:42:12 PM
Given how poor we've been, how many stupid mistakes we've made and how biased the ref's been, I am flabbergasted we're only 2 points down. Think we have the wind this half though.
Don't know what game you are watching Down are playing well. This is how you have to play tactically versus Donegal. Try to play open football and you will get crushed!
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks the Ref is riding Down!!
POOR GAME, foul ridden
Quote from: Highlander3 on June 23, 2013, 02:41:59 PM
This ref is the worse I have seen this year if we touch a donegal player it's a foul yet they can mug us and no free
Poor ref, but he has missed every one of Kings late challenges as well.
Is it just me or is the picture on both channels terrible?
must be near a foul a min here
The Donegal cynicism is unreal. 38th min, Donegal player rightfully booked for the most blatant foul you'll ever see as Down break up the field.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on June 23, 2013, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: Highlander3 on June 23, 2013, 02:41:59 PM
This ref is the worse I have seen this year if we touch a donegal player it's a foul yet they can mug us and no free
Poor ref, but he has missed every one of Kings late challenges as well.
Is it just me or is the picture on both channels terrible?
Picture itself is fine (on RTE anyway), but it must be windy because the camera is constantly wobbling.
wouldnt counted the hit on bradley, ball was there to be won, and the bigger man won it in style
I'll take back that we're playing poorly, we're not, we're doing well, but we're still making some really silly mistakes that have cost us 2/3 points. We need to eradicate those just to keep it close.
Quote from: Highlander3 on June 23, 2013, 02:41:59 PM
This ref is the worse I have seen this year if we touch a donegal player it's a foul yet they can mug us and no free
Ive got to agree with this, some of the "tackles" Donegal are getting away with are astounding.
I notice Donegal are being let hit the quick frees when the ref talks to a player (fair enough, keeps the game moving) but when Down tried the same (to their adv) the free was brought back.
Thanks to Owen Mulligan on BBC for his insight into this game ... "I think both managers will want to win this game"
Eddie Kinsella is a poor ref, seems to had his mind made up that Donegal were going to win this match and is reffing accordingly.
Have sympathy for the neutrals here in fairness this is a god awfull spectacle.
Its hard hitting championship football in wet conditions. Im enjoying it think the ref is riding us though.
Quote from: hardstation on June 23, 2013, 02:51:09 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 23, 2013, 02:48:37 PM
wouldnt counted the hit on bradley, ball was there to be won, and the bigger man won it in style
He had two off the ball shoulders in the face and two other fouls in the first 10 mins. He hasn't even been booked.
The one on McLoone was an elbow.
Quote from: Whitnail on June 23, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Have sympathy for the neutrals here in fairness this is a god awfull spectacle.
Yep, and as I've said before, this is Donegal's fault. To be successful, this is how you have to play nowadays. They've made sure of that and it's horrible to watch.
Anyone's game. Donegal not the well-oiled machine today.
Commentary on this game by Carney and Canning is god awful, eulogising Donegal every time they touch the ball.
Quote from: Collins on June 23, 2013, 03:03:17 PM
Quote from: Whitnail on June 23, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Have sympathy for the neutrals here in fairness this is a god awfull spectacle.
Yep, and as I've said before, this is Donegal's fault. To be successful, this is how you have to play nowadays. They've made sure of that and it's horrible to watch.
Its Donegal's fault that Down are playing the exact same way? Are you now going to forgo watching your county given your strong convictions?
It's set up perfectly for Donegal though. Regardless of how they're playing, being ahead at half time is what they want. Eventually their opponents need to open up a bit to get back to level terms and that's when they come into their own.
Quote from: Mac2 on June 23, 2013, 03:05:47 PM
Commentary on this game by Carney and Canning is god awful, eulogising Donegal every time they touch the ball.
Very much so.
Jimmy knows that no ref will blow every single foul so he has coached every Donegal player to tackle accordingly. Most tackles are high to the upper body, arms and neck and their superior physical condition spells trouble for most opponents. Then there is the cynical foul, ankle taps, crossing a players path, landing on a player on the ground etc, all have been mastered by Donegal. Refs don't stand a chance with them and furthermore they have to put up with Murphy & co's constant gubbing.
What's the solution if officials continue to allow it?
I'm enjoying it as a neutral, think Down will be happy with their 1st half performance and will buy-in to the tactical plan even more, a goal could decide this.
Yes J70, it is. You play to win and you can't win at the highest level in the modern game unless you play the nasty, negative, disgustingly cynical, cheating way Donegal do. I've said this before. That's why I had my house on them at 7/1 to win the All Ireland last year.
Having said that J70, there's a level we won't stoop to that Donegal players will as soon as Jimmy gives them the order. And that's the vile mind games and verbal abuse they give opposition players. Reports I've heard of things they've said, especially against Tyrone players, would make you sick to your stomach.
Down owning the ball so far in the second half, couple of poor misses.
Boyle killing us with two bad mistakes this 2nd half
Why has the ref moved that ball 26 metres instead of 13?
Deliberate knee in the back of Boyle there after he was fouled.
Jaysus that was a terrible miss from Boyle - feck me Down need to hit every single chance like that
Why the fck didn't Coulter just stick that over!!?
Another cynical foul from McFadden there as we were on the counter
We're still losing the ball so easily in contact. Seriously, its so poor. Madine needs hooked.
Down should be level here
That could be a killer for Down. They have had chances, but nobody able to take them
If only Down could hit the net.......
Down overdoing it in attack like we were in first half.
Dublin would take Donegal the day on this performance
There we go. YET ANOTHER stupid mistake that costs us a point.
Hand pass to the sideline >:(
Costs another point. 5 points from Donegal come directly from our c**k ups
What is the rule on bringing the ball forward?
As befits a maths teacher...jesus wept
McFadden the difference so far
Very good performance from Down. Tackling from both sides is awful, particularly Donegal. The ref is letting them away with murder.
Down could sneak this game if they keep their heads....
c'mon somebody score a goal..
Give it to Wherrity... did he get a haircut?
Sheer, blind panic from us
Turley is f**king excellent. Lavery and O'Hare have been good. Ambrose decent and mcArdle who has been excellent.
Murphy showing his true colours once again
Free in if anything....
This ref is pathetic.
Some amount of steps from Thompson
Kinsella should be locked in the boot of a renault megane.
Down never got to within a point.
12-9 FT
We gave a good performance overall. Never easy against such a quality side. But they were just always 2 or 3 points ahead throughout and we made too many silly mistakes to really have a go at winning it. Add the fact the ref didn't help us at all and it just wasn't going to happen.
Mayo the best team in the country for me. Followed by Dublin then Donegal.
Down just kept running into the wall, and turned the ball over too much. Donegal were there for the taking mid way through the 2nd half.
The last 2 mins before full time were crucial and the ref screwed it up. Laverty was fouled going in and Donegal got a free out for nothing coming out. That would've put 1 in it. Where did they pull this lad from and why do we have to take refs from other provinces when the same rule doesn't apply elsewhere?
Phew! Just about made it! Happy enough we ground it out with some boys missing. Should ease back on the hype a little too ahead of the final.
Woeful stuff to watch.
Donegal won't care, it's all about winning, blah blah blah
Donegal are worse than Kilkenny for getting favours from refs. The amount of fouls and pick-ups he missed was embarrassing. Then if a Down player did the same they were penalised. 16 against 15 there today.
How there was only 2 minutes added, I'll never know.
Wind was huge too. Underrated factor. We needed to be 2 points up at half time, not 2 points down.
All in all though, as pleased as you can be after a defeat, I'm pleased.
Quote from: Collins on June 23, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
Yes J70, it is. You play to win and you can't win at the highest level in the modern game unless you play the nasty, negative, disgustingly cynical, cheating way Donegal do. I've said this before. That's why I had my house on them at 7/1 to win the All Ireland last year.
Having said that J70, there's a level we won't stoop to that Donegal players will as soon as Jimmy gives them the order. And that's the vile mind games and verbal abuse they give opposition players. Reports I've heard of things they've said, especially against Tyrone players, would make you sick to your stomach.
I heard Jimmy has voodoo dolls and sticks pins in the opposition players before games. We need to do something to stop this practice.
Somebody think of the children.
That game makes me think Donegal won't win the All Ireland this year.
Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry have seen the gameplan to rattle Donegal and I don't think they will let the opportunity slip as Down have today!
Colm McFadden accepting the MOTM award on behalf of Eddie Kinsella. Can't believe I was supporting Down in that game, but when are referees going to cop on to Donegals antics.
Infuriating game to watch.
It was there for Down.
Too many cases of 'right place, wrong man' when it came to shooting opportunities.
Quote from: Collins on June 23, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
Yes J70, it is. You play to win and you can't win at the highest level in the modern game unless you play the nasty, negative, disgustingly cynical, cheating way Donegal do. I've said this before. That's why I had my house on them at 7/1 to win the All Ireland last year.
Having said that J70, there's a level we won't stoop to that Donegal players will as soon as Jimmy gives them the order. And that's the vile mind games and verbal abuse they give opposition players. Reports I've heard of things they've said, especially against Tyrone players, would make you sick to your stomach.
Sorry, but its just ludicrous to blame Donegal for a change in the style of the game while your own team does the exact same thing. Just as it would be ludicrous of us Donegal people to blame Tyrone and Armagh for starting us down this road of the blanket defense and verbal abuse. We didn't have to follow, especially given that we didn't like seeing our own players on the receiving end for so many years. Neither do Down have to follow now. I've said this numerous times before - if the GAA is so concerned about where the game is going, they can change the rules. Crying about Donegal, while just about everyone else follows in their footsteps (oh, the humanity!), is just pathetic.
Hard luck Down I would say. Both very defensive set ups. Down actually created more chances but for some poor ball handling and the final pass they could have won it.. Donegal scored 12 and kicked two wides (which is an amazing stat) Down scored 9, probably kicked 4/5 wides but it was the wasted opportunities which cost them..
Dublin will mince Donegal if and when they meet.
Down playing against 16 men still threw that game away.....
Have to say for such a big lad your man Bradley goes down so easy at the slightest contact you'd swear he was on an iceskating rink...
Hard luck Down. Nobody before the game though you had a chance (bookies had you at 5/1) but you really were unlucky not to be coming away with a win. Whilst Donegal are experts at exerting pressure on the opposition it was Down's unforced errors and missed chances that lost them this game. Must be a hard pill to swallow.
Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2013, 03:56:03 PM
That game makes me think Donegal won't win the All Ireland this year.
Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry have seen the gameplan to rattle Donegal and I don't think they will let the opportunity slip as Down have today!
You may be right, especially if we don't get the likes of Lacey back to full steam. Don't think those teams would pass up opportunities like Down did today (although Donegal were equally guilty in the spell before half time). No harm in dampening a bit of the hype though, although it seems irrelevant to McGuinness and this squad, unlike Donegal teams of yore.
Quote from: Collins on June 23, 2013, 03:47:50 PM
12-9 FT
We gave a good performance overall. Never easy against such a quality side. But they were just always 2 or 3 points ahead throughout and we made too many silly mistakes to really have a go at winning it. Add the fact the ref didn't help us at all and it just wasn't going to happen.
Mayo the best team in the country for me. Followed by Dublin then Donegal.
I'd honesty say it's the other way around.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 04:04:08 PM
Dublin will mince Donegal if and when they meet.
Don't be so sure! This Donegal outfit will have players back and are still formidable. allot of these young Dublin u-21's may have been great at under age and in the League for Dublin. But when they get in with the Big Boys they will be really tested.
Dublin have pace and power all over the field and 6 scoring forwards.
I couldn't see a dogfight like 2011 happening again.
Bear in mind, they won that dogfight too.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 04:15:30 PM
Dublin have pace and power all over the field and 6 scoring forwards.
I couldn't see a dogfight like 2011 happening again.
Bear in mind, they won that dogfight too.
Oh I don't doubt that Dublin are well equipped to deal with Donegal. But in 2011 they were fine tuning their system and were lacking the confidence in their ability that they have now. Look we are all looking forward to seeing how Cork/Kerry/Dublin/Mayo deal with Donegal should they meet.
Great effort from the majority of the Down team and Management have to take great credit for coming up with a game-plan to give them a battling chance right to the end against the All-Ireland champions.
Fantastic individual performances from Mark Poland, Conor Laverty, Donal O Hare, Kalum King, Ambrose Rodgers and Peter Turley.
On the other hand how Niall Madine remained on the pitch after the 15-20 minute mark absolutely baffled me. I didn't see one single positive contribution throughout the entire game. Perhaps a reflection of the poor strength in depth on the panel at the moment.
McFadden's long range kicking was the difference. Some sublime scores in the last 10 mins when the game needed won.
Highlight of the game for me was when the 9 1/2 stone Down substitute Jerome Johnston somehow managed to dump Donegal's favourite bully-boy Neil Magee on the seat of his pants when he came on.
An understrength Donegal won ugly playing against a team deploying their (Donegal) tactics. That's a good day at the office IMHO! I still think they'll be very hard to beat.
Stop McFadden and you stop Donegal.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Stop McFadden and you stop Donegal.
Not going to get into the debate on your overall statement, but it is incredible how consistent the lad has been over the past couple of years. He was the epitome of hot and cold for the first six or seven years of his senior intercounty career.
When the game is in the balance McFadden is the one that always steps up by drifting out to the HF line to take a lay-off and slot the score.
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Down's template was fine today. Silly final passes, poor shot selection is what cost them.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Except Dublin. And there is a queue waiting for them this year! ;)
McFadden is the man allright.
McLoone on the otherhand... well I don't know what's happened to him at all. He used to get crucial scores in the last 2 years.
Im not sure he's managed a point in any game so far... and that's including the league!
Quote from: Tubberman on June 23, 2013, 04:47:54 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Down's template was fine today. Silly final passes, poor shot selection is what cost them.
But you could find the same fault with the Donegal attack today, especially in the second quarter. Both sides were guilty of trying to work it in too much, probably due to that breeze against them into that goal. Even Murphy sent an easy chance low into the keeper's arms.
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2013, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 23, 2013, 04:47:54 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Down's template was fine today. Silly final passes, poor shot selection is what cost them.
But you could find the same fault with the Donegal attack today, especially in the second quarter. Both sides were guilty of trying to work it in too much, probably due to that breeze against them into that goal.
Not to the same extent - they still had McFadden to get the big scores.
And even if that were the case, it wouldn't mean Down's gameplan wasn't the correct one.
Quote from: Tubberman on June 23, 2013, 04:57:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2013, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 23, 2013, 04:47:54 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Horrible horrible game to watch. Would love to know the stats on the number of kick passes in that match. You have to admire what Donegal have achieved but they are a glorified rugby league grinding machine. Still no manager has yet devised a template for beating their system.
Down's template was fine today. Silly final passes, poor shot selection is what cost them.
But you could find the same fault with the Donegal attack today, especially in the second quarter. Both sides were guilty of trying to work it in too much, probably due to that breeze against them into that goal.
Not to the same extent - they still had McFadden to get the big scores.
And even if that were the case, it wouldn't mean Down's gameplan wasn't the correct one.
Of course not. Just saying that people are focusing on Down's failings in front of goal. Donegal had similar problems. They just had a couple of lads who allowed them to overcome it.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 23, 2013, 04:25:23 PM
An understrength Donegal won ugly playing against a team deploying their (Donegal) tactics. That's a good day at the office IMHO! I still think they'll be very hard to beat.
I'm happy enough. We won a tough game missing, ultimately, two very influential half-backs (Lacey, and McGlynn, who went off early, presumably still struggling with his injury) and two midfielders (Gallagher, and then Bradley, who was having an excellent match to that point). IF they get back, we'll still be hard to beat.
Hi guys,
Tactical analysis of Donegal's win over Down is up here:
http://action81.com/blog/?p=7351
Emmet
Football is gas.
I'd fancy Dublin to beat Donegal or Kerry.
I'd fancy Kerry to beat Cork or Mayo.
I'd fancy Mayo to Beat Tyrone or Donegal.
I'd fancy Donegal to beat Cork or Kerry.
I'd fancy Cork to beat Mayo or Tyrone.
It's all about the match-ups.
Good result for Donegal, keeps them out of the spotlight for the next few weeks and gives them plenty to work on.
It just shows how much of a difference a few missing players makes to even the best teams - Dublin, take say MDMA and O'Carroll out of the team and they would be up against it against the other top teams.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 05:15:15 PM
Football is gas.
I'd fancy Dublin to beat Donegal or Kerry.
I'd fancy Kerry to beat Cork or Mayo.
I'd fancy Mayo to Beat Tyrone or Donegal.
I'd fancy Donegal to beat Cork or Kerry.
I'd fancy Cork to beat Mayo or Tyrone.
It's all about the match-ups.
That it is Jinxy! That it is. That's why Mayo won't win Sam. They will (probably) have to beat the Top two - Donegal in Semi and Dublin in Final. For once (and probably the only time) the Ulster/Connacht side will be the stronger side of the draw! Not that Connacht and Ulster Football is strong - Just that Mayo and Donegal are strong. Who would have said that 3 years ago? Not I for one.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 05:51:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 05:15:15 PM
Football is gas.
I'd fancy Dublin to beat Donegal or Kerry.
I'd fancy Kerry to beat Cork or Mayo.
I'd fancy Mayo to Beat Tyrone or Donegal.
I'd fancy Donegal to beat Cork or Kerry.
I'd fancy Cork to beat Mayo or Tyrone.
It's all about the match-ups.
That it is Jinxy! That it is. That's why Mayo won't win Sam. They will (probably) have to beat the Top two - Donegal in Semi and Dublin in Final. For once (and probably the only time) the Ulster/Connacht side will be the stronger side of the draw! Not that Connacht and Ulster Football is strong - Just that Mayo and Donegal are strong. Who would have said that 3 years ago? Not I for one.
Ulster football would still be a higher then Connacht.
As a Down man id love to see us meet Donegal later in the championship. I think McCartan will learn a lot from todays game. On a sidenote if that was Benny last ulster championship game surely be must go down as the best player never to win an Usfc medal. Some amazing performances over the years and 100% every time he took the field. I saw him play for the bridge a good few times, but the supporters from his club have been spoilt over the years watching a true legend week in week out.
I enjoyed today's game, despite the criticism I hear others giving it. Both defences were superb, and Donegal's attack was better than Down's, that's what gave them the win in my opinion. I thought the Donegal myth took a bit of a battering as well.
Quote from: Ard-Rí on June 23, 2013, 07:02:59 PM
I enjoyed today's game, despite the criticism I hear others giving it. Both defences were superb, and Donegal's attack was better than Down's, that's what gave them the win in my opinion. I thought the Donegal myth took a bit of a battering as well.
What's the myth?
Absolutely delighted with what Down did today. James has threatened to go against the grain since he took the job on, and I always got the feeling that the players either wouldn't or couldn't do spoiling football. Today showed that Down (players and management) are willing to go the extra yard and do things unnatural, in order to win.
This doesn't mean that we have to play like this every week. But it does mean that we can actually approach the qualifiers and want to prolong the summer. Eventually we would have to meet 2 or more of Mayo, Dublin, Donegal or Cork. And now we might potentially give them a game.
The only difference between the teams was not the ability of McFadden or Murphy, as suggested, but simply experience and composure. Donegal's forwards have been fine tuned into performing in these conditions for almost 3 years. Down's forwards are only getting started in this way of thinking. They turn up where Keith Quinn, Mallon and Boyle kept turning up, because they know how it pans out.
One last thing, without sounding like I think 15 man defences are the way forward, I'd point out that today King and Turley looked like superstars. Two men who the average Down fan would normally turn their noses up to. Here's the thing, they'll always get exposed in a team that doesn't defend as a unit - but their power is significant in a team that does. Here's hoping a few more Down fans start understanding this.
McCartan, Rogers, Laverty and Poland were also immense.
I have to agree with you wobbler. I hate the shite talk about the down way and the aristocrats of ulster football, it was always bullshit to me. Every game is there to be won regardless of what system you use to get desired result. I remember posting at the start of the year that King had been found out and opposing players knew not to take the ball into contact with him, but im delighted to say I was wrong he has been exceptional in the two games this year in the championship. Im looking forward to the qualifiers Im hoping for an away tie against a div 3 /4 team. A win away from home in the qualifiers can really bring a team on and a good day out. Having said that I wouldnt mind tyrone in newry either.
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 23, 2013, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 05:51:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 23, 2013, 05:15:15 PM
Football is gas.
I'd fancy Dublin to beat Donegal or Kerry.
I'd fancy Kerry to beat Cork or Mayo.
I'd fancy Mayo to Beat Tyrone or Donegal.
I'd fancy Donegal to beat Cork or Kerry.
I'd fancy Cork to beat Mayo or Tyrone.
It's all about the match-ups.
That it is Jinxy! That it is. That's why Mayo won't win Sam. They will (probably) have to beat the Top two - Donegal in Semi and Dublin in Final. For once (and probably the only time) the Ulster/Connacht side will be the stronger side of the draw! Not that Connacht and Ulster Football is strong - Just that Mayo and Donegal are strong. Who would have said that 3 years ago? Not I for one.
Ulster football would still be a higher then Connacht.
Wouldn't be hard in fairness. London were 1 minute away from the Connacht final today.
I've long been of the opinion that the only way to beat the blanket defence is to do it better than the other team. That's why more and more teams are changing their tactics like Down today and my own county. The result is the muck we watched today. If that is the product the GAA want to produce and market well in my opinion they will lose the hearts and minds of the next generation. In my opinion the GAA needs to address this through the rule book. No doubt this won't happen until each and every team in playing this system but I imagine that is at the most 2 years away.
Quote from: Minder on June 23, 2013, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Ard-Rí on June 23, 2013, 07:02:59 PM
I enjoyed today's game, despite the criticism I hear others giving it. Both defences were superb, and Donegal's attack was better than Down's, that's what gave them the win in my opinion. I thought the Donegal myth took a bit of a battering as well.
What's the myth?
I'm wondering that too, especially given that most people had Dublin ahead of them in likely winners this year and their squad depth has been questioned all year.
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
disappointed but proud after todays performance. none of the experts in the media or on here gave us a chance. if only we had a bit more belief especially in the 1st 15mins the result could have been different. a lot of turn overs and silly mistakes cost us. thought murphy and McFadden were the difference between the teams. we have a lot of positives to take into the qualifiers though. hopefully we can get an easy draw to get a bit of momentum going and get some of our injured players back.
one downside was the performance of the ref, thought he was really poor and clearly gave Donegal a lot of easy frees.
Well in Downs case they showed they can play football the conventional way and win against Derry, i wait to watch Donegal do that some day and see if they actually have a plan B, still THINK MAN FOR MAN there about 3 teams possible ahead of them in the playing stakes in an open game of football
A lot of people are overlooking the fact that Down were missing Gordon, Carr and Hughes today not to mention our other émigrés.
Gutsy performance. We will get a good run in the back door. McCartan and his management team deserve a lot if credit for how this team were prepared and how they executed their game plan.
People seem very keen to berate the "modern game" these days as a spectacle. Personally I thought it was very entertaining. Brilliant to see two teams go at it hammer and tongs, to put their bodies on the line consistently and to keep up that level of intensity for 70 minutes, loved it. I thought Down performed brilliantly, really didn't think that group of players could perform as they did. In saying that they missed a massive chance to beat Donegal today. It had all the makings of an upset, with Donegal missing two extremely important players at the start of the game (and another two by the end of the first half) and being billed as some supermen world beaters in nearly all sections of the media. Down were set up perfectly and if it weren't for some largely unforced individual errors (O'Hare handpassing over the sideline, couple of misplaced passes from Coulter, a
couple dropped short) then it would've really went right down to the wire. I think the game also highlighted how heavily Donegal rely on McFadden and his scores from long range/tight angles to bring them over the line in tight games. McBrearty is very good but not at McFadden's level yet as a poacher and he was poor today. Murphy is a superb footballer and could probably play the poacher role, but he is not as well suited to it as McFadden. Interesting that you often see McBrearty and Murphy roam out the field at different stages of the game but never McFadden. If McFadden gets injured Donegal will be in serious trouble this year.
Quote from: James Gatz on June 23, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
McBrearty is very good but not at McFadden's level yet as a poacher and he was poor today.
Patrick had to make a visit to the dentist from the hotel last night - in a lot of pain.
Quote from: James Gatz on June 23, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
People seem very keen to berate the "modern game" these days as a spectacle. Personally I thought it was very entertaining. Brilliant to see two teams go at it hammer and tongs, to put their bodies on the line consistently and to keep up that level of intensity for 70 minutes, loved it. I thought Down performed brilliantly, really didn't think that group of players could perform as they did. In saying that they missed a massive chance to beat Donegal today. It had all the makings of an upset, with Donegal missing two extremely important players at the start of the game (and another two by the end of the first half) and being billed as some supermen world beaters in nearly all sections of the media. Down were set up perfectly and if it weren't for some largely unforced individual errors (O'Hare handpassing over the sideline, couple of misplaced passes from Coulter, a
couple dropped short) then it would've really went right down to the wire. I think the game also highlighted how heavily Donegal rely on McFadden and his scores from long range/tight angles to bring them over the line in tight games. McBrearty is very good but not at McFadden's level yet as a poacher and he was poor today. Murphy is a superb footballer and could probably play the poacher role, but he is not as well suited to it as McFadden. Interesting that you often see McBrearty and Murphy roam out the field at different stages of the game but never McFadden. If McFadden gets injured Donegal will be in serious trouble this year.
The game was kept interesting by virtue of the fact that Down were still in it right up until the end but to describe it as entertaining depends on your take on Gaelic football. Personally I prefer the ball to be kicked rather than the pass the parcel risk free handball played in today's game. I definitely didn't find it entertaining, in fact I found myself constantly thinking that I wish someone would just kick the bloody thing.
Quote from: DownFanatic on June 23, 2013, 08:04:55 PM
A lot of people are overlooking the fact that Down were missing Gordon, Carr and Hughes today not to mention our other émigrés.
Gutsy performance. We will get a good run in the back door. McCartan and his management team deserve a lot if credit for how this team were prepared and how they executed their game plan.
Really? Because I've been reading all week about the ten players Down have lost.
The difference between Martin Clarke and Karl Lacey is that Lacey will be back, and all going well, anchor the Donegal team this season. Clarke won't be back, and as such, is irrelevant to what Down will do.
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
You never looked like winning this game because in the 2nd half your forwards (except O'Hare) were afraid to shoot and your backs couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 23, 2013, 07:49:00 PM
Well in Downs case they showed they can play football the conventional way and win against Derry, i wait to watch Donegal do that some day and see if they actually have a plan B, still THINK MAN FOR MAN there about 3 teams possible ahead of them in the playing stakes in an open game of football
If there are three teams ahead of them in the man for man stakes why on earth would Donegal change the way they play?
The people on here criticising the game today are looking at games in the past with rose tinted glasses. Im working in navan and a couple of years ago a local bar was showing the four game saga v dublin in 1991. The pub was well packed the first evening, the consensus was the replay was a cracker, i was there the following week, plenty of hard hitting and poor football, but exciting, much the same the following week and im not sure they showed the final game.
Down v Derry was probably a better game than todays, in terms of scores and open football, but when it comes to championship football id prefer raw intensity, boys putting their bodies on the line, hard physical tackling and 100% effort, i couldnt fault either team today. Compared to the games in the other provinces to date I know which game I would prefer to watch
In fairness, it was very intense and I let a few roars at the telly towards the end as I thought the game was there for Down only they kept making a balls of things.
I've seen plenty worse games.
In fairness, sloppiness and unforced errors are the only thing that make a football game exciting these days.
What was the problem with Coulter today he had 2 or 3 chances to put the ball over the bar but opted to pass the ball instead and none ended up with scores.
Quote from: ardtole on June 23, 2013, 08:52:59 PM
The people on here criticising the game today are looking at games in the past with rose tinted glasses. Im working in navan and a couple of years ago a local bar was showing the four game saga v dublin in 1991. The pub was well packed the first evening, the consensus was the replay was a cracker, i was there the following week, plenty of hard hitting and poor football, but exciting, much the same the following week and im not sure they showed the final game.
Down v Derry was probably a better game than todays, in terms of scores and open football, but when it comes to championship football id prefer raw intensity, boys putting their bodies on the line, hard physical tackling and 100% effort, i couldnt fault either team today. Compared to the games in the other provinces to date I know which game I would prefer to watch
The 95-99 Mayo Galway matches didn't look like rugby league.
You'd have max 3 players around the man with the ball usually.
There were no rucks.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
But Down were missing men like Gordon and Hughes (although would lads who've been around as long as them be automatic starters?). Bluestack Boy is right though. I was seriously worried halfway through that second half. That was not the case against Mayo last year (at least once we got to half-time) and it was maybe only the case for a minute or so at the end of the Kerry game.
Down were missing Gordon, Hughes, garvey and Carr. Players who may not mean much to those outside the county but whom most inside the county would agree would be certain starters and big misses today.
I'm not saying they would have made the difference today but when people mention those that are missing for Donegal don't forget Down were missing a few as well.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
connor garvey, dan Gordon, danny hughes, aiden carr were missing for down. it was close because down are a good team. a team that was given no respect by the media all week. even though we were beat we know the team gave everything and you cant ask much more. Donegal had murphy and McFadden, that was the difference. oh and the the fact that the ref was biased didn't help.
hard luck to Down today. it was enthrawling at breffni today. Donegal were rattled for first time since dubs beat them in 2011. maybe its time the media give Down the respect they deserve, no we won't win an all lreland but we are more than capable of rattling the favoured teams. hoping for Tyrone in newry in the qualifiers . give it a go lads.
Quote from: SHEEDY on June 23, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
connor garvey, dan Gordon, danny hughes, aiden carr were missing for down. it was close because down are a good team. a team that was given no respect by the media all week. even though we were beat we know the team gave everything and you cant ask much more. Donegal had murphy and McFadden, that was the difference. oh and the the fact that the ref was biased didn't help.
I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't see much bias from the ref (plus I'm so used to Ulster opposition on this board crying about the ref when playing Donegal - this goes back well before McGuinness). Gave some easy frees both ways, missed some stuff as well (the elbow or forearm strike on McLoone, for example), but I don't see how he affected the outcome. If either team has regrets, it will be not taking shots when opportunities arose playing into the town end and the breeze rather than the referee.
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2013, 09:49:06 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
But Down were missing men like Gordon and Hughes (although would lads who've been around as long as them be automatic starters?). Bluestack Boy is right though. I was seriously worried halfway through that second half. That was not the case against Mayo last year (at least once we got to half-time) and it was maybe only the case for a minute or so at the end of the Kerry game.
Gallagher is hardly a youngster , he is probably around as long as Danny Hughes and Gordon. Those players would have been a help for Down the same as Gallagher and Lacey for Donegal
A hallmark of James as a player was courage in the face of adversity and his teams display the same qualities. Players who may never compete for all-stars consistently give 100% commitment to the red and black - thinking of Kalum King, Peter Turley and Daniel Mc Cartan- thought he had another good game on Mc Fadden but allow him three half-chances and he punished us. Donegal have picked up the mantle from Armagh and Tyrone as highlighted in this thread but you can't really complain that Mc Guinness and Gallagher just do it better. I rarely criticise refs as the job is really tough with this style of football but Kinsella was inconsistent; another big issue not mentioned here yet was at the start of the second half when the
linesman clearly raised his right hand to give a sideline ball to us- Donegal took it and got a point -yet Kinsella played on.
Very disappointed with the minors; yet again wee Pete's reading of the game cost us.
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 23, 2013, 10:09:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2013, 09:49:06 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
But Down were missing men like Gordon and Hughes (although would lads who've been around as long as them be automatic starters?). Bluestack Boy is right though. I was seriously worried halfway through that second half. That was not the case against Mayo last year (at least once we got to half-time) and it was maybe only the case for a minute or so at the end of the Kerry game.
Gallagher is hardly a youngster , he is probably around as long as Danny Hughes and Gordon. Those players would have been a help for Down the same as Gallagher and Lacey for Donegal
Was asking, thus the question mark.
For sure the hard yards have been done in Down this year. Thanks for the effort so far this year lads and keep them lit wee James. Hopefully a few more days in it for us in 2013.
Down put up a decent fight today but did anyone really think they might win. Donegal kept them at least 2 points behind and I never felt they were in real danger, despite holding a slenderish lead.
A great display by Down today - I thought they were the better team, not being biased.
The difference for me was that when it came to the crunch, Donegal's big names made sure they won the match.
Although I thought the following players were brilliant the whole match, McCartan, Ambrose, Poland, McKernan, Coulter (x3) and O'Hare all wasted possession at crucial times in the second half.
Our last two points were scored by U21s.
I hope this doesn't sound critical because I thought Down were fantastic today - showed tremendous discipline, and hats off to wee James - just trying to figure out what went wrong.
Thought the referee was poor as well.
Quote from: Itchy on June 23, 2013, 10:45:46 PM
Down put up a decent fight today but did anyone really think they might win. Donegal kept them at least 2 points behind and I never felt they were in real danger, despite holding a slenderish lead.
For a ten minute period in the second half I thought there was a distinct possibility they could win. When Donegal got back into it and kept clipping on a point to keep putting the gap out to three, I relaxed a bit, but Down were well in it right until the end.
Mightily impressed with what McCartan tried to do today. Most teams wilt against the Donegal wall around the 50 mark. Down kept driving at them, showing tremendous fitness levels. Their tackling was a match for them too - how often did you see Murphy and Co dispossessed?
Just a pity they didn't take 2-3 long range scores in the second half, the way McFadden did. I thought Coulter was the man to do that but was very reluctant to take a pop.
Donegal are masters at exerting just enough energy to win games like this. You always feel you'd like another pop at them later in the summer but they'd just do enough again.
Great intensity, pace and power from both sides.
Is Danny Hughes injured?
He was made for that game today.
The margins were very slim in Breffni, unlike last year's Ulster final when we ultimately took a tanking, and a little more composure and experience would have got us at least a draw. We can be proud of our squad and management, who gave us everything on the day and made the 5/1 odds look ridiculous.
Essentially, we had to match Donegal's intensity, prevent them from scoring a goal and somehow snatch one at the other end. We got two out of three, and a couple of half chances might even have ended up in their net, so it was much closer than most people expected. Donegal were just about the better side, but it could have gone either way.
The referee probably gave two thirds of the tight calls to Donegal and the very first free awarded to Murphy, which he also brought forward, as he did repeatedly, was probably the worst decision of the day and summed up his approach . However, our handling let us down on a couple of crucial occasions and we are still carrying the ball into tackles too often.
Both sides managed six points from frees, but they got another six from play against our three which made the difference. Holding Donegal to 12 points was quite an achievement, but we are unlikely to win any game when we only hit three scores from play.
McVeigh was excellent under the dropping ball, and, with only a couple of exceptions, his kick-outs were fine. McCartan had a decent game overall and was unfortunate that, after restricting McFadden to three shots from distance, all of them went over with the mark of a quality forward. McArdle looked as though he would struggle early on but improved steadily and Murphy was only a threat from frees after the break. Quinn did well on McBrearty before tiring, although he missed a relatively simple point at an important stage.
Rooney and Boyle also missed straightforward opportunities,but competed well throughout, while Turley, apart from a misplaced pass which cost a point, had his best ever game for Down, showed great anticipation and was unlucky that his handling let him down while pushing up in the closing minutes.
Our midfield edged their contest without ever playing as well as in the Derry game. King took a while to get going but remains crucial to our plans and his fisted intervention to win the aerial ball and legitimately flatten Boyle was a highlight of the day. While McKernan hit a couple of amazingly awful passes, he also showed leadership throughout and should be our next captain.
This year's skipper, Poland, had another good day, linking up everywhere and bemusing the Donegal defence for his point. Laverty was the most fouled player on the pitch, which tells a tale, and had great twists but seldom really hurt the opposition. Ambrose, after a slow start, was probably our man of the match, covering a huge amount of ground and tackling like a man possessed.
O'Hare was just about as good, working endlessly, showing top class free taking and very close to getting in for a goal two or three times against the tightest defence in the country. Madine is a fine ball winner, but a couple of misplaced passes cost us dearly. Benny won two brilliant frees under intense pressure but the legs are plainly going and he may be better as an impact sub.
It might be better to start Mallon in front of Benny the next day in the half forwards, as he has great pace and power going forward even if the odd pass goes astray. Johnston is small but game as he showed by responding to McGee's provocation and scoring a clever point, while Savage is no bigger but can also take a score, and both are good options late on.
Sadly, the chances of Hughes and Carr being available for the next match look slim, while Garvey and Gordon are further back and Doyler's latest involvement was only as a water carrier, but we can still look forward to the second round qualifier draw with a reasonable amount of hope.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on June 24, 2013, 12:36:27 AM
The margins were very slim in Breffni, unlike last year's Ulster final when we ultimately took a tanking, and a little more composure and experience would have got us at least a draw. We can be proud of our squad and management, who gave us everything on the day and made the 5/1 odds look ridiculous.
Essentially, we had to match Donegal's intensity, prevent them from scoring a goal and somehow snatch one at the other end. We got two out of three, and a couple of half chances might even have ended up in their net, so it was much closer than most people expected. Donegal were just about the better side, but it could have gone either way.
The referee probably gave two thirds of the tight calls to Donegal and the very first free awarded to Murphy, which he also brought forward, as he did repeatedly, was probably the worst decision of the day and summed up his approach . However, our handling let us down on a couple of crucial occasions and we are still carrying the ball into tackles too often.
Both sides managed six points from frees, but they got another six from play against our three which made the difference. Holding Donegal to 12 points was quite an achievement, but we are unlikely to win any game when we only hit three scores from play.
McVeigh was excellent under the dropping ball, and, with only a couple of exceptions, his kick-outs were fine. McCartan had a decent game overall and was unfortunate that, after restricting McFadden to three shots from distance, all of them went over with the mark of a quality forward. McArdle looked as though he would struggle early on but improved steadily and Murphy was only a threat from frees after the break. Quinn did well on McBrearty before tiring, although he missed a relatively simple point at an important stage.
Rooney and Boyle also missed straightforward opportunities,but competed well throughout, while Turley, apart from a misplaced pass which cost a point, had his best ever game for Down, showed great anticipation and was unlucky that his handling let him down while pushing up in the closing minutes.
Our midfield edged their contest without ever playing as well as in the Derry game. King took a while to get going but remains crucial to our plans and his fisted intervention to win the aerial ball and legitimately flatten Boyle was a highlight of the day. While McKernan hit a couple of amazingly awful passes, he also showed leadership throughout and should be our next captain.
This year's skipper, Poland, had another good day, linking up everywhere and bemusing the Donegal defence for his point. Laverty was the most fouled player on the pitch, which tells a tale, and had great twists but seldom really hurt the opposition. Ambrose, after a slow start, was probably our man of the match, covering a huge amount of ground and tackling like a man possessed.
O'Hare was just about as good, working endlessly, showing top class free taking and very close to getting in for a goal two or three times against the tightest defence in the country. Madine is a fine ball winner, but a couple of misplaced passes cost us dearly. Benny won two brilliant frees under intense pressure but the legs are plainly going and he may be better as an impact sub.
It might be better to start Mallon in front of Benny the next day in the half forwards, as he has great pace and power going forward even if the odd pass goes astray. Johnston is small but game as he showed by responding to McGee's provocation and scoring a clever point, while Savage is no bigger but can also take a score, and both are good options late on.
Sadly, the chances of Hughes and Carr being available for the next match look slim, while Garvey and Gordon are further back and Doyler's latest involvement was only as a water carrier, but we can still look forward to the second round qualifier draw with a reasonable amount of hope.
I could be wrong but I thought it was Rooney who did a solid man marking job on McBrearty.
Frank Dawson and McCartan have instrumented tactics the last couple of Sundays neither of which could possibly try and win either game but at least kept the margin of victory down.
Well done Antrim and Down in the face of tankings.
Now on to the Qualifiers.
A massive opportunity missed by Down there I think. A poster above hit the nail on the head; the composure and familiarity with this type of method that Donegal have was a huge factor in what separated the sides at the end.
Down were absolutely voracious and did so, so many things well, but ultimately, after doing trojan work to surgically engineer a number of attacking platforms deep in Donegal territory, when they had carved out those rare oh-so-precious clear-cut opportunities in front of the posts, either option selection (Coulter twice the most memorable culprit) or shooting accuracy let them down. Donegal were much more precise and out of the small handful of informative things that Ger Canning managed to utter on TV yesterday, identifying that Donegal's first wide of the game, a wild wide from Kavanagh on 56 mins or so, tells its own tale in the context of the result.
Donegal present such a challenge and such a conundrum, and are now such a prized scalp, that I think Down almost overthought it a little when in attacking positions yesterday. McCartan's reaction at the final whistle said it all it was there for the taking but it was left behind. But Down should be damn proud of a stirring display like that, nobody will want them in the qualifiers now. It was great to hear the atmosphere coming over the TV in Breffni too, it's for days like that the place was built.
It'll be interesting to see if this gives other teams more heart against Donegal now, or if it is something of a small wake up call for the champs. Time will tell.
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 21, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
...Look I am not going to be foolish. I expect a Donegal victory but my point is that we are not so far behind them as is being made out. We are certainly not that far behind Tyrone. Donegal are missing a critical man and Down have several returned. I believe fully that Down could still be in a tight match with ten minutes to go. I think Donegal will have too much but I do not think that it is inevitable that Down will be over-run.
As I said before the game, we are not that far behind Donegal and Tyrone. We were not over-run and there was no whitewash. The optimisim for Down is that we are still a work in progress. Big Dan has not given up hope of playing this season and Hughes and Carr are not far away from fitness. We need to improve but, if we can improve, then we are not so far behind any team in Ireland that we can not at least have a chance against them. The teams that are on top now could very quickly have a bad day/lose form/suffer injuries...
Down are a top 8 side, we are towards the lower end of that top 8 but when much of the media rates Armagh, Derry, Galway, Meath... ahead of us and tries to tell us that Tyrone and Kildare are way ahead of us then it is disrespectful. Yesterdays game proved that currently Dublin, Donegal and Mayo are ahead of the pack. But that Down are seriously in that chasing pack and deserve their place.
There is still potentially a long summer to go (fingers crossed) and a potential for improvement. If James and Prof Moyna can get more out of this team then we have every chance of again proving that we deserve the respect we have not been getting. I have never seen as as the best but we deserve more respect than we have received.
A few things more.
Young Madine found it tough going. I'd imagine he's spent the last 4-5 years of his life dominating all his opponents physically, but yesterday he was up against 15 powerhouses, and he seemed a bit shocked by the intensity of it all. Knowing that being naturally big isn't enough for the top-level should stand him in good stead.
Benny. Mourne Rover touched on it above, and it does look like father time has caught up with him a little. Here's hoping harder pitches and a few weeks more training will play into his hands, but the most worrying thing watching him is that he doesn't seem to have the patience to play full-forward in a defensive team; he was too eager to force the game when he did touch leather. Would he be happy with the role of impact sub, and relish the thought of taking on tiring defenders? I couldn't see it; he's never been a sub in his life.
Boyle and Quinn. Two lads with great engines, who actually do understand how to make space by running off the ball, which means they're going to get on the end of attacks regularly. Yesterday's conditions were appalling, and can somewhat explain the poor/hesitant shooting, but the management should be looking at how they can make these fellas into reliable scoring threats from deep, like Lacey, Kernan or Jordan. We are a couple of scoring forwards light, and their ability to split the posts could be vital.
Hi guys
Video analysis of what Down did in defence and transitioning into attack now up
http://action81.com/blog/?p=7356
Thanks,
Emmet
High on intensity and low on quality which i'll put down to the weather conditions and constant pressure on the ball.
Down whilst could have won if they kicked instinctively like Donegal did (especially McFadden) I feel Down maybe were under the instruction of looking the goal as it was the only way they would likely win. Donegal kicked 2 wides (i think?) which tells it's own tale, Monaghan a few week prior kicked something like 16 against a much inferior Antrim side.
That game yesterday was completely opposite to the Derry/Down game and showed that Down could mix it up, they would be some team if they had all players at their disposal. Currently they are behind the 3 or 4 big boys but i still think there is a long summer in them especially if they can get Carr, Garvey and Gordan back.
Both teams deserve credit for that game. I'm not saying it was in any way pleasant to watch but it certainly was engaging and much better entertainment that what passes for championship fare in most of the other provinces.
Donegal were put to the pin of their collar. Mainly this was down to the players who either had to go off or were unavailable. If someone had said Donegal could play without Lacey, Gallagher, Bradley (2nd half), McGlynn (2nd half) and Walsh (2nd half) and still win, I'd have had my doubts. A Dublin, Mayo or Kerry would have put them away yesterday but will they get the chance? A lot depends on injuries for Donegal. Still, they deserve immense credit for coming through that with those men missing. No squad in the country can lose 4-5 'starters' without some detrimental effect. McGuinness will be delighted to have come through that.
Down will also have one eye on absentees which may have been the difference. They just lacked the usual composure up front and seemed to neglect this part of the game. The boys that were there deserve great credit. They hit and harried all day. I thought Rogers was simply immense. Many of the Down hits were deliberately late and went unpunished although they were playing horses for courses in that respect, and fair play to them for it.
The referee was very poor. He didn't seem to understand what was cynical play and what wasn't. Which begs an interesting question for next year: How many black cards would have been issued yesterday? and how would it have affected the game?
For instance, Frank McGlynn's deliberate foul 55 yards from goal was a 'black card' for me in the spirit of the thing, but I'm not it will be classified as such. (There were instances on both sides so I'm not singling out Donegal. This is just one classic example.)
As a reminder:
The proposed black card offences are:
1 Deliberatively pulling down an opponent
2 Deliberately tripping an opponent with hand, arm or foot
3 Deliberately colliding with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play
4 Using abusive or provocative language or gestures to players
5 Remonstrating in an aggressive manner with a match official.
Where does the 'slight pull on jersey, or shorts, 60 yards from goal' fit in? Could be 1; although is 'pulling back' the same as 'pulling down'?
Jarlath Burns said yesterday that it is still profitable to foul in Gaelic football and until that changes there will continue to be games like yesterday's. He's 100% correct.
I thought the ref was just terrible, he simply got far to many calls missed. One simple one was how on earth did he and his officials miss the two hits that King put in off the ball in the first ten minutes, this set the tone for his performance for me, just dreadful.
Quote from: J70 on June 23, 2013, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on June 23, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on June 23, 2013, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 23, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 23, 2013, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 23, 2013, 07:33:52 PM
I would agree with wobbler as well. I didn't think that this team was capable of playing with that level of intensity. If we can match that intensity the rest of the year we will beat most teams outside of the top 5.
Was very impressed with Rooney, Turley, King and Ambrose. Coincidently all big strong men who were able to match Donegals tackling and power.
However let's get it straight, from 5 mins in Down didn't get within a point of Donegal. They had chances but were not capable of taking these chances. We never looked like winning this game because of the machine that is Donegal. Fair play to them, they know how to win ugly, do whatever it takes to get over the line and that's all they care about and rightly so.
Just like last years AI final versus Mayo. Mayo huffed and puffed after a bad start. but never got near Donegal (Really). I suppose the same could be said of Cork and Kerry last year?
Today was different. This was the closest Donegal have come to being beaten since 2011. Neither Mayo Kerry or Cork came near to the levels of intensity Down showed today.
That was your most depleted panel since 2011 as well, Down did well today but you have to consider that Lacey, Gallagher plus a few others were missing that's why it was close.
connor garvey, dan Gordon, danny hughes, aiden carr were missing for down. it was close because down are a good team. a team that was given no respect by the media all week. even though we were beat we know the team gave everything and you cant ask much more. Donegal had murphy and McFadden, that was the difference. oh and the the fact that the ref was biased didn't help.
I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't see much bias from the ref (plus I'm so used to Ulster opposition on this board crying about the ref when playing Donegal - this goes back well before McGuinness). Gave some easy frees both ways, missed some stuff as well (the elbow or forearm strike on McLoone, for example), but I don't see how he affected the outcome. If either team has regrets, it will be not taking shots when opportunities arose playing into the town end and the breeze rather than the referee.
As an Armagh man I wouldn't have much sympathy with Down. That said the Ref's performance was somewhat erratic. Donegal have developed the half foul which slows the player down just enough and cons the ref into playing advantage which then doesn't accrue and never will as slowing the game lets Donegal regroup. A foul or half foul is still a foul. However Down like Tyrone paid the penalty for the poor return from theis forwards. If anything happens to McFadden or Murphy though Donegal will be in diffs. Interestingly I would have had the same criticism of the ref in the Tyrone game, and to a lesser extent in Cavan vs Armagh. Where is the much lauded push from the GAA to get rid of cynical fouling? As a spectacle this game was pure crap but a gripping finish none the less.
Well said apples. The half foul indeed looks to be well perfected by Jimmy & Co. Refs are so encouraged to let the game flow as they know already it will be a painful watch against so many defenders. If they blew up every little drag back (as they should) then it would be ruined as a spectacle.
Donegal have indeed taken the baton to a whole new level from Tyrone (as we took it from ye in Armagh) of how the game is played. We've all changed the mindset of what gaelic football is now and what is acceptable and what isn't. If you want to remain in the "grumpy old man" corner and talk about how football should be played then people will soon get tired listening to you.
Until you come up against Donegal, you don't quite understand or appreciate the level of effort and planning needed to compete with them. Down reached that level yesterday but a bit like Tyrone they failed to take vital scores when on top whereas Donegal continue to rely on M&M to kick vital scores from scraps. The 3rd M wasn't as good yesterday as he was v Tyrone (toothache I believe) but McFadden has become one hell of a player who seems to have been hugely transformed.
If you compare him now to back in 2007 when he punched Dooher in the face in the second half semi final as he got so frustrated playing against our defence. Now he accepts all sorts of punishment and battles like crazy for every scrap of a ball going his way but unlike many other good forward such as our own SoN, Benny yesterday, Gooch and many more, he can keep his head v 3 or 4 defenders and still manage to kick scores under massive pressure.
It's as if he's become so used to battles like this every week in training that he sees it now as the norm.
I must say I really hate the way Donegal play now and hate the direction the game is going because of this. However, I know to well this road was also travelled by Armagh & maybe more so Tyrone and when you're in the middle of successful run, you are happy to turn a blind eye to how aesthetic is looks when you're winning. More and more fans are beginning to see the intensity battle as the new excitement in matches and I know what ye mean but are you just trying to make the most of what is there. We very rarely now see great scores, passes, runs, catches, turns from our best players on show as they've got 3 or 4 men on them each time. How often do we see a move breaking down cos there is no room to pass.
Maybe I'm just sad & jealous that Tyrone's run of success if over and that Donegal are the new kids on the block and are better than us now. I was happy to see them win last year but already I want to see them get knocked out asap. It's nothing personal as I don't hate any Donegal fans but I just don't enjoy watching these style of games any more. I know a lot of the other games we've saw this year have lacked any sort of intensity, especially in Leinster but there must be some middle ground.
I really am looking forward to seeing how the Dubs will deal with Donegal should they meet but I can't see anyone else really testing them unless they take McFadden out of the game.
It's like a hybrid of Rugby league, football and Aussie rules. You just have the see the change of the physique in the majority of players in the last few years.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 24, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
It's like a hybrid of Rugby league, football and Aussie rules. You just have the see the change of the physique in the majority of players in the last few years.
More like a hybrid of handball. If Down actually kicked the ball in early to forwards instead of handing it off to each other all the way up only to throw it into a Donegal backs hand. Dia dha reiteach anocht, the amount of times the early ball was on!
Fair play to McFadden, the only man with a pair of balls on the field, some great points from way out. People who question Donegal's hunger this year are in for a bit of a shock.
Also, the third man tackle/foul. My own county are no angels at this but the amount of times it was going on in this watch was disgusting. There was one occasion where a Down defender ran almost 10 yards in the wrong direction to take Kavanagh out of it after he laid it off to McFadden. If he had actually turned and tried to tackle McFadden he might have prevented a Donegal point.
Stamp out the 3rd man tackle for christ sake.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 24, 2013, 12:12:14 PM
I really am looking forward to seeing how the Dubs will deal with Donegal should they meet but I can't see anyone else really testing them unless they take McFadden out of the game.
I can tell you, we're desperate to have another rattle at them this year.
Quote from: ballinaman on June 24, 2013, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 24, 2013, 12:12:14 PM
I really am looking forward to seeing how the Dubs will deal with Donegal should they meet but I can't see anyone else really testing them unless they take McFadden out of the game.
I can tell you, we're desperate to have another rattle at them this year.
That game may well happen later in the year but its likely to be played in a similar manner to yesterdays slug fest. When a team tries to play in a similar manner to Donegal by flooding the scoring zone with bodies and playing possession based risk free football it can make for frustrating viewing. Purely from a style point of view I would prefer to see someone like Dublin win an AI this year.
Not pretty, but I accept Fuzz's point if Armagh were winning like this I'd be fairly content. Maybe the advantage rule will change this.
I thought it was a fascinating game. Instead of the Donegal avalanche in the last quarter, Down just kept going.
The reality was that it was akin to middleweight sparring away at a heavyweight, just enough to annoy but not enough to knock down.
2 in a rows don't come easy, If Donegal had other ideas (which I doubt), now they know different.
Where's Danny hughes at these days?
thought it was a horrible game to watch
down`s tactics mirrored donegals
king should have been lined at the start of the match
turning point for me was o hare hitting the post and it going from a one point game to a 3 point games within a couple of minutes. although always felt that donegal had enough to win whilst playing pretty poorly.
as i said earlier last week for down to win they needed goals which they never really looked likely to get unfortunately
Quote from: naka on June 24, 2013, 02:31:29 PM
thought it was a horrible game to watch
down`s tactics mirrored donegals
king should have been lined at the start of the match
turning point for me was o hare hitting the post and it going from a one point game to a 3 point games within a couple of minutes. although always felt that donegal had enough to win whilst playing pretty poorly.
as i said earlier last week for down to win they needed goals which they never really looked likely to get unfortunately
Donegal seem to score with an efficiency no other team can match. McFadden in particular is great at taking his scores and they are by no means easy chances he converts. (in my opinion he was footballer of the year last year, if he keeps this up he will get it this year)
It's interesting to read Jim's comments about the vibe coming from the stand.
"People were saying are Donegal going to have the bottle. I could feel that coming from the stands."
I certainly could sense a fear in the Donegal crowd. The accumulating errors, the unceasing intensity from Down, the forced and unforced substitutions ... for about 10 minutes in the 2nd half you could feel the supporters beginning to think that party was about to end. I hasten to add that it's wasn't driven by cockiness. In fact, all the talk before the game was about how Down were really going to put it up to us and how the media were well off with their predictions. But we've become accustomed to seeing the lads able to up it when required and for a while it looked like that wasn't going to happen. If Down had tagged on a few points at that stage - to draw level for example, I think that would have been the winning of the game for them. Instead the ship was settled (by McFadden and Ryan McHugh mainly) and the "fear" was gone for the last 5-10 minutes. I found interesting that Jim picked up on that vibe too. I wonder do the players sense the emotion of the crowd or are they completely oblivious to it?
I have noticed this before that Jim seems to listen and even get involved with the fans around him.
I'd say the players in the pitch though wouldn't catch onto it.
The one big thing I think that he has done that Harte failed to do with Tyrone is to make the squad much more strong willed and single minded like Armagh were back in their day. Even when Armagh weren't playing particularly well, they would grind out wins from sheer belief and determination.
Down really did put it up to them yesterday but every time there was 2 points in it, Donegal seem to extend it to three again almost at will.
Does anyone know what do Donegal do after a match? Do they not meet up again until the Tuesday or what?
Quote from: Main Street on June 24, 2013, 02:21:19 PM
I thought it was a fascinating game. Instead of the Donegal avalanche in the last quarter, Down just kept going.
The reality was that it was akin to middleweight sparring away at a heavyweight, just enough to annoy but not enough to knock down.
2 in a rows don't come easy, If Donegal had other ideas (which I doubt), now they know different.
This doesn't apply to McGuinness or the squad, but any Donegal person thinking otherwise should be focused on nothing except the Ulster final. Yesterday should be a wake-up call for any supporters getting cocky. Cavan can certainly not be taken for granted. As for Monaghan, does anyone know when we last beat them in the championship? They beat us in. 08 and hammered us in 07 and 95 (when we all went to Ballybofey expecting a stroll after beating Down and were beaten out the gate by a young Monaghan team who did nothing thereafter!) . Did we beat them in the 80s?
Quote from: J70 on June 24, 2013, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 24, 2013, 02:21:19 PM
I thought it was a fascinating game. Instead of the Donegal avalanche in the last quarter, Down just kept going.
The reality was that it was akin to middleweight sparring away at a heavyweight, just enough to annoy but not enough to knock down.
2 in a rows don't come easy, If Donegal had other ideas (which I doubt), now they know different.
This doesn't apply to McGuinness or the squad, but any Donegal person thinking otherwise should be focused on nothing except the Ulster final. Yesterday should be a wake-up call for any supporters getting cocky. Cavan can certainly not be taken for granted. As for Monaghan, does anyone know when we last beat them in the championship? They beat us in. 08 and hammered us in 07 and 95 (when we all went to Ballybofey expecting a stroll after beating Down and were beaten out the gate by a young Monaghan team who did nothing thereafter!) . Did we beat them in the 80s?
No matter what kind of team we sent up to Donegal, we came away victors.
But unfortunately, us Monaghan folk aren't allowed yet to salivate at the thoughts of turning over a fancied Donegal team for the umteenth time in a championship game. But if Cavan should get through, Donegal would have less to worry about and the prestige of the Ulster Final would certainly be the loser.
Well if the prestige of the final is at stake, let's hope Donegal get the opportunity for a historic and rare win over Monaghan! :P
I'm a neutral fan and have no real love for Down but i thought the ref had a shocker yesterday. He gave Donegal some really soft frees early to get them settled and also Down had to work really hard for their frees. Also Donegal will struggle with the same gameplan next year. All their cynical fouls around the midfield area will result in black cards and they will soon run out of players. Having said that Down were fairly cynical on a few occasions also.
Quote from: lenny on June 24, 2013, 06:11:46 PM
I'm a neutral fan and have no real love for Down but i thought the ref had a shocker yesterday. He gave Donegal some really soft frees early to get them settled and also Down had to work really hard for their frees. Also Donegal will struggle with the same gameplan next year. All their cynical fouls around the midfield area will result in black cards and they will soon run out of players. Having said that Down were fairly cynical on a few occasions also.
Agree with the above statement, but that is no fault of Donegal. Referee had a shocker. His consistency was terrible. I had to turn over from RTE coverage With Martin Carney to the BBC with Oisin. Martin ( a Donegal man) naturally papered over the cracks of the referees performance where as Oisin called it as it was! Anyway Donegal were still the better team. They controlled things (even the referee).
it will be interesting to see how far Down go for the rest of the summer. if they are in the qf draw a few big teams will want to avoid them after yesterdays game.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 24, 2013, 08:32:49 PM
it will be interesting to see how far Down go for the rest of the summer. if they are in the qf draw a few big teams will want to avoid them after yesterdays game.
By the QF stage there usually will only be big-hitters left. Any team with All Ireland ambitions would relish Down in a QF. That is not to say Down would not be capable of causing a shock, but any one of Dublin/Mayo/Donegal/Cork would seriously fancy themselves and with good reason. Kerry mightn't because of the apparent hoodoo Down have over them (has to end some day) and Tyrone mightn't because I would put Down on par with them and yet the media and their supporters would probably heavily favour Tyrone.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 24, 2013, 08:32:49 PM
it will be interesting to see how far Down go for the rest of the summer. if they are in the qf draw a few big teams will want to avoid them after yesterdays game.
I always thought Down classed themselves as a big team !!!
Sure Armagh fancy themselves as a big team also 8)
There has been an constant theme in Ulster this summer and that is inconsistent refereeing and whilst in none of the games has been the sole reason for the winners victory it has still been a major factor.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:12:38 AM
There has been an constant theme in Ulster this summer and that is inconsistent refereeing and whilst in none of the games has been the sole reason for the winners victory it has still been a major factor.
Only in Ulster?????
The referee awarded Down a lot of soft frees too, they got a lot towards the end taht weren;t in scoring positions but were very, very soft. One that sticks out was McKernan acting the tube waving the finger at the referee after McLoone had been blown up for over carrying (even though McKernan was pulling his arm the whole time).
Good article by Tony McEntee with plenty of 'analysis' in it unlike many media pundits.
Why Donegal won't win the All-Ireland
Monday, June 24, 2013
Jim McGuinness' greatest trick is convincing the world that Donegal are invincible.
By Tony McEntee
Last September by the time Mayo realised otherwise, a compound series of mistakes put the game beyond their control. They had the ability and the know-how but lacked the conviction and belief.
Mickey Harte's Tyrone lacked the ability and conviction to best McGuinness. Indeed the match was over long before the final whistle and provided Donegal with little test. Ironically, Tyrone learned more about themselves from the outcome. Their deficiencies were exposed, allowing Harte the opportunity to turn their season around.
James McCartan is a different animal, supremely confident as a footballer and as an individual. When sharing a room with the great Jack O'Shea on Compromise Rules duty he was asked what was it like to be with a legend: "You'll need to ask Jack," he replied. If only he was able to instil a morsel of that confidence into his players, then they would savour the tasks ahead of them. As events transpired yesterday, Down dominated large sections of the meeting with the All-Ireland champions, played with loads of confidence and came within a few bad decisions of winning it.
The allure of Breffni Park for me was the application of the sweeper.
From open play Mark McHugh sat deep in defence, in front of Benny Coulter, manning the edge of the D where it intersects the 20m line. His task was to sweep secondary possession from direct ball, double-team whatever Down forward received initial possession within the scoring zone, be a spare man for the build-up from defence, link play to the forwards and, most interestingly, pushing up and marking his man for opposition kickouts — though not Donegal's own kickouts. For Down kicksouts, Donegal played 15 v 15. For their own, they looked to utilise the sweeper as an outlet.
McHugh's effect on the game was compromised by Down's methodical and slow build-up play, plus a lack of discipline in the Donegal defence. This was a deliberate Down tactic that worked by frustrating Donegal and nearly won the match for the underdogs but for a lack of composure in front of goal.
Down played with Peter Turley as an orthodox holding centreback, assisted by either Ryan Boyle or more frequently Kevin McKernan as an extra sweeper. Turley's role was much more clearly defined. He, along with Boyle/McKernan spread themselves equidistant across the field covering the centre closest to themselves and the nearest wing for early deliveries. In the second half Turley manned the centre more and focused his energy on shoring up the defence. His tackling was superb and his attacking runs showed many qualities of a leader.
What we should be asking is what are the benefits of a sweeper and why are so many teams now using it?
The benefits are self-evident. Crowding of defence, picking up loose runners, cover for mistakes and support play, to mention a few.
The why is more complicated.
For both Down and Donegal it masks many defensive frailties. Neither team are confident in their ability to go man-to-man in the true sense. Neither team display the confidence in the outfield players to mark the runners nor apply sufficient pressure on the kicker.
In Donegal's case the sweeper allows runners from deep in defence to have disregard for their defensive duties and to recover when returning to their numerical position while McHugh remains in position for his own kickouts, providing additional options for primary possession or secondary break ball. And the final 'why' is to create space for your own forwards to work in. Unfortunately, this reason is not something that either team considered yesterday as both forward units survived on scores from free kicks or long distance efforts in the case of Colm McFadden.
This very point is the reason Down lost and the same reason Donegal simply cannot win this year's All-Ireland.
Colm McFadden was the only man that even looked like scoring from play and he was reduced to points from 40 yards or more. David Walsh was given a man-marking role on Laverty while Leo McLoone was not himself. Patrick McBrearty was well marked and didn't look able to find space or freedom while Michael Murphy roamed in and out when it suited. How do you win against good teams with only one forward?
However, as long as Donegal are winning they remain the team to beat. They do not look fully conditioned yet, some key players are missing and realistically they are working with about 13 players. I don't suspect they will get the chance to go the backdoor route so the invincible tag remains for now. But if they do then so does the cloak.
McGuinness is going to stick to the plan that has taken him thus far, why should he change?
That is his power. The greatest trick he ever pulled was convincing the world he couldn't be beaten. And like that, poof. He's gone.
Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 25, 2013, 09:21:36 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 09:12:38 AM
There has been an constant theme in Ulster this summer and that is inconsistent refereeing and whilst in none of the games has been the sole reason for the winners victory it has still been a major factor.
Only in Ulster?????
I haven't seen other Provincial games.
The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.
Having said that it, there was plenty of time for Down to score, they gained enough possession and created enough opportunities. We lost because of our own errors in both shot selection and shooting itself. We did not lose directly because of the referee, the largest portion of the reasons for us losing lie with ourselves, but he certainly had an influence in our defeat.
That is all in the past now, the big question is where do we go from here. Sunday was our highest level of fitness and commitment. Can we push on and improve yet further? I see no reason why not, after all there are players to come back and the more the boys practice the new system the better they should get. By Sunday's standard, Down are easily worth a quarter final place. With an improvement we could be a top 4-5 side.
Or was it our peak? I hope not!!
I have to agree with Tony McEntee column, The same thing crossed my mind on Sunday, That Donegal are built up to be a superpower, while in fact they have a lot of very average footballers. If Murphy or Mcfadden get injured or sent off they are in huge trouble. They are both irreplaceable, (not exactly a revelation).
Line of the day had to be Martin Carney after about six or eight handpasses, " this is the new modern football, let's rejoice. I almost choked on my breakfast."
What paper or site is the Tony McEntee article from?
I read his article and thought it was a bit soon to write about their demise.. You have to consider that Donegal were missing their first choice midfielder and then his replacement got injured so you were down to fourth choice.
Karl Lacey was also injured too and not only did that take Karl Lacey out of it but it took Frank McGlynn away from his normal game where he'd be very influential.
Donegal are definitely beatable however I think it's too early to tell whether or not that's this year and there is a myth that they are a bunch of average footballers. They play an excellent system and are no doubt "greater than the sum of their parts" but there are a lof of them boys who are far from average footballers.
I don't think Donegal are over-reliant on any one player to be honest. There is a core of 5 or 6 players they rely on and they so far can seem to survive if missing one or two of them. I said last year that they had been lucky with injuries and that it was inevitable given their style of play and training methods that they would start losing players through injury. They were missing Lacey and Gallagher and still one. But every team has to cope with the loss of players, name a county team that isn't missing 3 or 4 players through injury. Be interesting to see how Donegal fare in that situation. I don't think Donegal are loaded with a pile of average footballers, but the players they have are no better individually than say any of the other division 1 teams. What is setting them apart is their preparation (training, tactics, fitness etc). They are set-up to be very hard to beat and on top of that they attack in numbers and are clinical. JMG is key to Donegal obviously, take him away and they wouldn't stay at the top too long. People like talking about their 'system', and in a way it is so well defined that if a man drops out then another man simply comes in and knows the role they are to play and there doesn't seem to be much disruption.
If Donegal have their best 15 they will win the All Ireland. The only other teams in the running are Dublin and Mayo.
I'm not so sure lads
In my biased eyes, if you take McFadden out of that team then you lose one hell of a target man and score getter. I'd love to see his scoring (or even assists) stats for the last 2 seasons. Jimmy has made him into one of the hard to mark forwards ever and he's married to his sister.
I would agree with a lot of what McEntee has to say but I think he sells Donegal a bit short.
After the semi final last year Colm O'Rourke said that Donegal had "humiliated" Cork in the second half. You don't do that wit a team full of ordinary players. We are early in the championship yet, the weather was awful on Sunday & Donegal were missing some influential players. When/If we hit Croke Park in August will be the time to judge this Donegal team, not before then
Yeah, the big banana skin for Donegal was Tyrone in the first match. There is a fair bit of football to be played until the end of September (if Donegal are there?). And it's all about peaking towards the end of the season. The game on Sunday was a bigger game for Down than Donegal, Down (at the moment) are not looking at an AI title, more so a big scalp to build confidence in the squad. Donegal on the other hand are looking to having players right for August.
On Donegal not needing all their players. McFadden makes them tick. Murphy is the Captain and Poster boy, but without McFadden Donegal would be in serious trouble. How he did not get player of the year last year is beyond me!
Quote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2013, 03:13:15 PM
What paper or site is the T frpony McEntee article from?
Is it this one from the Examiner?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tony-mcentee-why-donegal-wont-win-the-all-ireland-234972.html
There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.
I don't think Donegal are invincible but you can't deny that Jimmy McGuinness has created a mythology about his training, psychology and the way he goes about his business. Also Brolly harping on about the fact "I can't see Donegal being beaten" has created an air of invincibility too.
The way they waltzed through the All Ireland last year and swatted Tyrone away with relative ease helped to build that air of invincibility but the game against Down made Donegal look like humans after all and it looks like a better team than Down could take the blueprint and beat them this year.
2 Years ago I think Dublin caught Donegal early in their development which is how they scraped through, this years Dublin team are another step above 2 years ago. They've lost the gym monkeys in favour of fast lads who can play football and they're playing great stuff which will take some stopping.
I always thought it would be a great achievement for McGuinness to do the 2 in a row but given the Down performance I think it'll be a miracle that will mark him as one of the greatest managers ever if he pulls it off this year!
Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense ::)
It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.
Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 25, 2013, 02:48:55 PM
The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.
On the other hand, Down were lucky not to have played the last hour of the game with 14 men, while one or two of Coulter's frees looked marginal to my (admittedly biased) eyes.
Quote from: Sea The Stars on June 25, 2013, 06:01:13 PM
Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense ::)
It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.
Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.
Big difference between a gym monkey and a lad on a proper S & C programme.
Dublin are like a team of 200/400m runners now.
They don't have that over-developed upper body you see on players in some counties.
You don't run around a pitch on your hands.
Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2013, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.
I don't think Donegal are invincible but you can't deny that Jimmy McGuinness has created a mythology about his training, psychology and the way he goes about his business. Also Brolly harping on about the fact "I can't see Donegal being beaten" has created an air of invincibility too.
The way they waltzed through the All Ireland last year and swatted Tyrone away with relative ease helped to build that air of invincibility but the game against Down made Donegal look like humans after all and it looks like a better team than Down could take the blueprint and beat them this year.
2 Years ago I think Dublin caught Donegal early in their development which is how they scraped through, this years Dublin team are another step above 2 years ago. They've lost the gym monkeys in favour of fast lads who can play football and they're playing great stuff which will take some stopping.
I always thought it would be a great achievement for McGuinness to do the 2 in a row but given the Down performance I think it'll be a miracle that will mark him as one of the greatest managers ever if he pulls it off this year!
How did Jim "create" the myth? What has he said or done? If a myth exists, its because of results and media hype.
As for the rest, you're also being a bit knee jerk in declaring that Down have exposed the real, "human" Donegal. Down, a big, physical team, still lost and still only scored nine points. Sure, Dublin might well beat us, but no one has argued otherwise (to my knowledge) all year, especially amidst all the hype about THEM. If there was a feeling abroad that Donegal were going to coast through Ulster and on to another AI final appearance, it was media-fueled hype, same as the popular dismissal of our chances in the spring. Neither were positions shared by myself or any other serious supporter I know.
Quote from: Sea The Stars on June 25, 2013, 06:01:13 PM
Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense ::)
It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.
Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.
I totally agree with that and spoke about it at great length at the time that I think Dublin had a lot of lads in their team who were big and fit but not necessarily good footballers. That trend has reversed now!
Maybe you're right about point one but in modern football I would consider it a miracle for a team to retain their All Ireland title seeing as it's only been achieved once in the last 23 years!
Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2013, 06:45:57 PM
Quote from: Sea The Stars on June 25, 2013, 06:01:13 PM
Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense ::)
It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.
Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.
I totally agree with that and spoke about it at great length at the time that I think Dublin had a lot of lads in their team who were big and fit but not necessarily good footballers. That trend has reversed now!
Maybe you're right about point one but in modern football I would consider it a miracle for a team to retain their All Ireland title seeing as it's only been achieved once in the last 23 years!
Ah yes but none of those teams had the mythical godlike figure of JMcG managing them ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 25, 2013, 02:48:55 PM
The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.
Having said that it, there was plenty of time for Down to score, they gained enough possession and created enough opportunities. We lost because of our own errors in both shot selection and shooting itself. We did not lose directly because of the referee, the largest portion of the reasons for us losing lie with ourselves, but he certainly had an influence in our defeat.
That is all in the past now, the big question is where do we go from here. Sunday was our highest level of fitness and commitment. Can we push on and improve yet further? I see no reason why not, after all there are players to come back and the more the boys practice the new system the better they should get. By Sunday's standard, Down are easily worth a quarter final place. With an improvement we could be a top 4-5 side.
Or was it our peak? I hope not!!
Id agree with alot of this. Feard a bit for Down after beating Derry in an open game. But theyve showed they can adapt. Whats the craic with these refs, yet another shorter than my wife. Another ref, Down could have pipped this one. Can take a huge amount from the match....could be a long summer for the Down men
As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1)
Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.
Like the two Brians did with Armagh in the late '90's, Jim McGuinness has found a footballing philosophy that suits the talent at his disposal. He plays a system and uses tactics that get results. Are they invincible, well no, but they have created a self belief and an edge that gives them a couple of points advantage in the minds of opponents and in tight games as with Sunday it makes the difference. I was disappointed that Tyrone did not give more of a challenge and surprised that Down did what they did. It isn't pretty to watch at times, but as I said before I'd rather Armagh won ugly as opposed t getting drubbed by Cavan. The other advantage that Donegal have is the way they tackle...the half foul I called it, it will be interesting to see what difference the advantage rule will make. Bizarrely I still believe the only teams that can stop Donegal this year are Tyrone or maybe just maybe Kerry as in my opinion they have slightly better footballers and in Kerry's case an innate belief in their entitlement to win. But if Donegal do go on to lift Sam, fair play they will have earned it and winning is what matters.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1)
Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.
Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!
I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!
I am surprised you think Tyrone still have what it takes to defeat Donegal as we've come up short now three times in a row.
This year especially we had near enough our full squad fit & hungry for them but we just ran out of ideas and couldn't get the ball into scoring positions.
We don't have enough talented & strong enough forwards to battle it out under such intense circumstances. We tried Big Sean & Stevie in the FF line but again we couldn't get them on the ball enough. I think we still are a bit slow at moving the ball fast and play into Donegal's trap of playing counter attacking football.
Donegal are masters at getting 12/13 men behind the middle third and letting you push into their half. As your midfielders and often half backs push forward to support the attack, they leave massive space behind them. Donegal make this happen on purpose so then they let you pass laterally back and forth waiting for an opening that often never comes. Instead someone gets a hand in and strips the ball from you.
Suddenly the moment of realisation that the pants are truly around your ankles and your caught out of position.
Before you know it the mass blanket defence you've been staring at, has passed you out accelerating up the field into the space you've left them. As per the second goal v Tyrone, they can hit a pass then into McFadden or McBrearty who has space to create a much easier scoring chance and maybe even a goal.
I think Down didn't fall for this trap as much as we and many others have done in the past. They kept a lot of bodies back at all times and made it very hard for Donegal to find room to get easy scores. That's why so many scores were from frees.
Quote from: screenexile on June 26, 2013, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1)
Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.
Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!
I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!
I'd agree but we have to acknowledge that this guy has had about three days to get his thoughts down on paper. Most of Spillane's stuff is pure knee jerk.
All the Club Championship games moved to this Saturday night now.
The two teams who go through to the Quarter Finals will be decided in Groups 1, 2 and 4 with Group 3 being one game behind following Gaoth Dobhair's successful turas to An Rinn to defend their All Ireland Title.
(Hopefully the Minor Championships will be also run off in better time this year)
Spillane has been spouting this stuff for years now and he never acknowledged that his own team when he played often brought back wing backs to help the defence. Sure you'd often see Pat back in his own full back line helping out
He often talks about kicking direct ball into the FF line but as stated this no longer works.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 26, 2013, 01:20:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 26, 2013, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1)
Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.
Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!
I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!
I'd agree but we have to acknowledge that this guy has had about three days to get his thoughts down on paper. Most of Spillane's stuff is pure knee jerk.
Yeah he has plenty of time to gather his thoughts. Let me tell you a story about Darragh O'Se. I wrote a forum post two years ago before the Down vs Cork qualifier explaining what happened in the AI Final and why Cork would prevail again. That weekend Darragh O'Se straight-out word for word copied it into the paper as his own article (I still have the original print).
I called the paper who took one look at it and abdicated to him for an answer saying it was his responsibility. He emailed me and said that it was a pure co-incidence. Cheeky sod, like I said it was word-for-word and about 500 words long (some co-incidence!!)
Don't trust Darragh O'Se to be an expert witness when on the spot!
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 26, 2013, 02:14:15 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 26, 2013, 01:20:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 26, 2013, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1)
Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.
Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!
I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!
I'd agree but we have to acknowledge that this guy has had about three days to get his thoughts down on paper. Most of Spillane's stuff is pure knee jerk.
Yeah he has plenty of time to gather his thoughts. Let me tell you a story about Darragh O'Se. I wrote a forum post two years ago before the Down vs Cork qualifier explaining what happened in the AI Final and why Cork would prevail again. That weekend Darragh O'Se straight-out word for word copied it into the paper as his own article (I still have the original print).
I called the paper who took one look at it and abdicated to him for an answer saying it was his responsibility. He emailed me and said that it was a pure co-incidence. Cheeky sod, like I said it was word-for-word and about 500 words long (some co-incidence!!)
Don't trust Darragh O'Se to be an expert witness when on the spot!
Not at all like a Kerry man to get one over on a Down man ;)
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 12:18:09 PM
I am surprised you think Tyrone still have what it takes to defeat Donegal as we've come up short now three times in a row.
This year especially we had near enough our full squad fit & hungry for them but we just ran out of ideas and couldn't get the ball into scoring positions.
We don't have enough talented & strong enough forwards to battle it out under such intense circumstances. We tried Big Sean & Stevie in the FF line but again we couldn't get them on the ball enough. I think we still are a bit slow at moving the ball fast and play into Donegal's trap of playing counter attacking football.
Donegal are masters at getting 12/13 men behind the middle third and letting you push into their half. As your midfielders and often half backs push forward to support the attack, they leave massive space behind them. Donegal make this happen on purpose so then they let you pass laterally back and forth waiting for an opening that often never comes. Instead someone gets a hand in and strips the ball from you.
Suddenly the moment of realisation that the pants are truly around your ankles and your caught out of position.
Before you know it the mass blanket defence you've been staring at, has passed you out accelerating up the field into the space you've left them. As per the second goal v Tyrone, they can hit a pass then into McFadden or McBrearty who has space to create a much easier scoring chance and maybe even a goal.
I think Down didn't fall for this trap as much as we and many others have done in the past. They kept a lot of bodies back at all times and made it very hard for Donegal to find room to get easy scores. That's why so many scores were from frees.
I think Tyrone will have learned from their own and Down's encounters with Donegal.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 12:18:09 PM
I am surprised you think Tyrone still have what it takes to defeat Donegal as we've come up short now three times in a row.
This year especially we had near enough our full squad fit & hungry for them but we just ran out of ideas and couldn't get the ball into scoring positions.
We don't have enough talented & strong enough forwards to battle it out under such intense circumstances. We tried Big Sean & Stevie in the FF line but again we couldn't get them on the ball enough. I think we still are a bit slow at moving the ball fast and play into Donegal's trap of playing counter attacking football.
Donegal are masters at getting 12/13 men behind the middle third and letting you push into their half. As your midfielders and often half backs push forward to support the attack, they leave massive space behind them. Donegal make this happen on purpose so then they let you pass laterally back and forth waiting for an opening that often never comes. Instead someone gets a hand in and strips the ball from you.
Suddenly the moment of realisation that the pants are truly around your ankles and your caught out of position.
Before you know it the mass blanket defence you've been staring at, has passed you out accelerating up the field into the space you've left them. As per the second goal v Tyrone, they can hit a pass then into McFadden or McBrearty who has space to create a much easier scoring chance and maybe even a goal.
I think Down didn't fall for this trap as much as we and many others have done in the past. They kept a lot of bodies back at all times and made it very hard for Donegal to find room to get easy scores. That's why so many scores were from frees.
I think Tyrone will have learned from their own and Down's encounters with Donegal.
If they have it wasn't very evident in the last game!
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 25, 2013, 04:16:59 PM
I'm not so sure lads
In my biased eyes, if you take McFadden out of that team then you lose one hell of a target man and score getter. I'd love to see his scoring (or even assists) stats for the last 2 seasons. Jimmy has made him into one of the hard to mark forwards ever and he's married to his sister.
totally agree, take McFadden out of the equation and Down would have won on sunday. A system alone wont win an all Ireland you also need quality footballers which donegal have. to say a system alone won donegal last years All Ireland is a massive kick in the teeth for a lot of those guys in green and gold. they all deserved massive credit for their own ability and class.
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 25, 2013, 02:48:55 PM
The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.
On the other hand, Down were lucky not to have played the last hour of the game with 14 men, while one or two of Coulter's frees looked marginal to my (admittedly biased) eyes.
I suppose you missed the clothes line on Laverty and then the clenched fist swing at laverty from McFadden, athough he didnt strike him the intent was clearly there.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 26, 2013, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on June 25, 2013, 02:48:55 PM
The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.
On the other hand, Down were lucky not to have played the last hour of the game with 14 men, while one or two of Coulter's frees looked marginal to my (admittedly biased) eyes.
I suppose you missed the clothes line on Laverty and then the clenched fist swing at laverty from McFadden, athough he didnt strike him the intent was clearly there.
Missed the McFadden one. The other -didn't David Walsh get booked? And not excusing it (players still have to be held accountable), but Laverty is a tad on the small size. I would imagine he gets clotheslined a fair bit, not necessarily maliciously.
Regardless, I'm not claiming that Donegal didn't get easy frees or perhaps escaped cards. Just countering the whinging that a biased ref basically decided the result.
Does anyone have the free/card breakdown?
The last stat I heard during the match, if I remember correctly, was when 43 frees had been awarded overall, 22 of them to Down.
Yis will be fighting this battle all year (Donegal) lads and it will probably get worse next year with the new rules.
It's part and parcel of being AI champs (as far as I can remember).
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 05:07:38 PM
Yis will be fighting this battle all year (Donegal) lads and it will probably get worse next year with the new rules.
It's part and parcel of being AI champs (as far as I can remember).
I've been on the board for more than a decade and its always been this way, especially with other Ulster teams!
If there were more Donegal members on the board, then perhaps some of us would always be crying about the referee every game as well.
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2013, 05:34:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 05:07:38 PM
Yis will be fighting this battle all year (Donegal) lads and it will probably get worse next year with the new rules.
It's part and parcel of being AI champs (as far as I can remember).
I've been on the board for more than a decade and its always been this way, especially with other Ulster teams!
If there were more Donegal members on the board, then perhaps some of us would always be crying about the referee every game as well.
No we wouldn't. We're above that sort of stuff. 8)
Quote from: RMDrive on June 26, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2013, 05:34:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2013, 05:07:38 PM
Yis will be fighting this battle all year (Donegal) lads and it will probably get worse next year with the new rules.
It's part and parcel of being AI champs (as far as I can remember).
I've been on the board for more than a decade and its always been this way, especially with other Ulster teams!
If there were more Donegal members on the board, then perhaps some of us would always be crying about the referee every game as well.
No we wouldn't. We're above that sort of stuff. 8)
Donegal men crying about the referee? Never did happen never will happen. Far too classy ::) ::) ::)
Do the lads on Highland radio still give the refs a hard time.
I used to love listening to donegal matches on that channel just to hear the craic with them.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
Do the lads on Highland radio still give the refs a hard time.
I used to love listening to donegal matches on that channel just to hear the craic with them.
The commentator that gave out about the refs all the time on Highland, Charlie Collins, left just the week before last. Not to sure what the commentary was like last Sunday as I was at the match, and NOT giving out about the Ref as indeed we are too classy 8) Though it was a bad ref ;D
Quote from: Goldengreen on June 27, 2013, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
Do the lads on Highland radio still give the refs a hard time.
I used to love listening to donegal matches on that channel just to hear the craic with them.
The commentator that gave out about the refs all the time on Highland, Charlie Collins, left just the week before last. Not to sure what the commentary was like last Sunday as I was at the match, and NOT giving out about the Ref as indeed we are too classy 8) Though it was a bad ref ;D
Did he retire or get a job somewhere else?
Would always enjoy Charlie's biased commentary.
Alas couldn't always listen to him though as he was about 15 secs ahead of the picture commentary on RTE and about12 secs ahead of BBC .
Ahead of his time he was :)
Has he retired from the commentary too? I know he gave up managing the station.
Tom Comack used to do a bit of commentary, but that may have been with Northwest/Ocean. Given that he's a Roscommon man, his commentary wasn't quite as nakedly biased as Charlie's!
I always thought McHugh was a good foil for Charlie. McHugh was biased in who he wanted to win, but he was also brutally honest and perhaps too pessimistic and severe at times in his assessment of Donegal.
Quote from: J70 on June 27, 2013, 01:54:40 PM
Has he retired from the commentary too? I know he gave up managing the station.
Tom Comack used to do a bit of commentary, but that may have been with Northwest/Ocean. Given that he's a Roscommon man, his commentary wasn't quite as nakedly biased as Charlie's!
I always thought McHugh was a good foil for Charlie. McHugh was biased in who he wanted to win, but he was also brutally honest and perhaps too pessimistic and severe at times in his assessment of Donegal.
As far as i know he is gone from the station completely, open to correction though. He did do a podcast, a preview of the Donegal v's Down game that was released on youtube, maybe this is more the road he is going down, his own media company.