A superficial glance at the Ulster championship draw would suggest that Armagh has an easy path to the final with Donegal, Down, Derry and Tyrone all on the other side of the bracket, but this is a wobbly Armagh team that was fortunate to maintain its Division 2 status. What with Cavan's U-21 success and our porous defense, I'm not exactly charged with confidence at the thought of a prelim matchup in Breffni. Still, with Forker acquitting himself fairly well of late, Harold playing well at midfield, and Aaron Kernan looking composed as captain, as well as the return of Jamie Clarke and McKeever, I'm a little more optimistic than I was a few weeks ago. I think we'll be good enough to edge Cavan and to survive long enough to see some football during the summer. Maybe the Grimley era will begin in earnest.
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Your second string were ten points better than a patchwork Cavan team missing 7/8/9 championship starters. Its good that you're happy about the win,but don't lose the run of yourself now.
Armagh will be slight favourites,but there won't be much in it either way.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 01:30:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Your second string were ten points better than a patchwork Cavan team missing 7/8/9 championship starters. Its good that you're happy about the win,but don't lose the run of yourself now.
Armagh will be slight favourites,but there won't be much in it either way.
Ah buck, no need to be sour.
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 02:31:04 AM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 01:30:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Your second string were ten points better than a patchwork Cavan team missing 7/8/9 championship starters. Its good that you're happy about the win,but don't lose the run of yourself now.
Armagh will be slight favourites,but there won't be much in it either way.
Ah buck, no need to be sour.
Us by 4 points!
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 01:30:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Your second string were ten points better than a patchwork Cavan team missing 7/8/9 championship starters. Its good that you're happy about the win,but don't lose the run of yourself now.
Armagh will be slight favourites,but there won't be much in it either way.
I think he lost it years ago and he probably still thinks that win over Armagh last summer was worth something.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 11, 2013, 02:40:15 AM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 01:30:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
Arrah, sure our second string are ten points better than Cavan 8)
Cavan will be buoyant after a third Ulster U21 (and maybe more) and at home there mightn't be a whole lot in this one.
Your second string were ten points better than a patchwork Cavan team missing 7/8/9 championship starters. Its good that you're happy about the win,but don't lose the run of yourself now.
Armagh will be slight favourites,but there won't be much in it either way.
I think he lost it years ago and he probably still thinks that win over Armagh last summer was worth something.
I'm so used to Ros teams beating Armagh teams at this stage I've moved on caring about bigger fish, like Fermanagh or Leitrim.
I would say that Fermanagh are bigger fish since they did beat you in the league, if I remember right. In the meantime, before we have to cower under the hulking shadow of that juggernaut from the west, we have to worry about Cavan. I'd say that with the exception of Donegal and Tyrone, on the one hand, and Antrim on the other, the rest of the Ulster crop is much of a muchness, so I'd say it'll be a tough encounter against Cavan, especially in Breffni.
I was just looking at the Armagh team that beat Galway.
That is a very Strong half back line of Aaron Kernan,Kieran Toner and Finian Moriarty.
Midfield,I know of James Lavery who is a good player but who is this Stephen Harold guy, and how good is he?
Johnny Hanratty or David McKenna will surely start at Centrefield on May 19th ?
When you add in Vernon,Dyas,Forker, the Kiernans and the brilliant Jamie Clarke into it,you just see the huge potential there in this Armagh team.
Charlie Vernon only returned for the Galway game, had be been injured until then?, very handy player.Kevin Dyas is a useful half forward aswell. Stefan Forker is a talented player, younger brother Aidan who was u21 this year, is also on the panel
Ciaran McKeever and Clarke will be coming back into that team aswell, both missed the Galway game. I'd expect a lot of the Cavan u21's to feature, It will take a huge effort to beat Armagh, even if they aren't the team of a few years ago
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 01:41:45 PM
Charlie Vernon only returned for the Galway game, had be been injured until then?, very handy player.Kevin Dyas is a useful half forward aswell. Stefan Forker is a talented player, younger brother Aidan who was u21 this year, is also on the panel
Ciaran McKeever and Clarke will be coming back into that team aswell, both missed the Galway game. I'd expect a lot of the Cavan u21's to feature, It will take a huge effort to beat Armagh, even if they aren't the team of a few years ago
Vernon played a small part in the WM game, came on as a sub. I heard that he was fit before the game but was not used - whether that is true or not is a different matter, but when he did come on he contributed well to the game scoring a point instantly.
Does anyone know what happened the Stevenson? Think I asked on here recently but never seen the reply.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on April 11, 2013, 01:16:15 AM
We were beat by Roscommon last year, they are in the same division as Cavan. It looks like a good draw for Armagh but in reality we aren't the team we were. This has huge potential for an upset. But on the other hand Cavan have no knowledge of what they will be coming up against when it comes to our Championship team, and it will be stronger than any team that played in the league.
It's got zero potential for an 'upset' as who would be shocked if Cavan won? Very much a 50/50 game. I dont know much about the current Cavan tbh, but they are certainly progressing in the right direction and will be a force when it pays off at Senior level - bar Jamie Clarke we've no reason to assume anyone we've introduced into the county senior set up this past year or two is any better than what Cavan have, i wouldn't put tuppence on us coming out of Breffni with a result.
One team on its way up meeting another team on its way down.
The result will tell us who has topped out or bottomed out.
Think we've bottomed out tbh, the only way is up.
Jaysus ye Armagh lads are horrid pessimistic.
While ye didn't have the best league campaign,there is a mountain of talent in that Armagh panel.
As for Cavan,Before last night i would have said, 3 of the under 21's from last night would start against Armagh,Jason McLoughlin,Killian Clarke and Jack Brady would be definite starters with Fergal Flanagan and perhaps Turloc Mooney being potential starters.
Now i wouldn't be suprised to see the likes of Chris Conroy,Conor Gilsenan(He is a better option in goals ahead of Miller) McVitty,Sexton.O Connor and Enda O Reily figure in the panel although with the exception of Gilsenan,they will hardly start.
Gerard Smith who is going to be an absolute star and big Michael Argue may also be called in,both have 2 more years left at under 21.
It would be a good man that would be able to pick Cavans starting 15 right now.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 04:27:47 PM
Jaysus ye Armagh lads are horrid pessimistic.
While ye didn't have the best league campaign,there is a mountain of talent in that Armagh panel.
As for Cavan,Before last night i would have said, 3 of the under 21's from last night would start against Armagh,Jason McLoughlin,Killian Clarke and Jack Brady would be definite starters with Fergal Flanagan and perhaps Turloc Mooney being potential starters.
Now i wouldn't be suprised to see the likes of Chris Conroy,Conor Gilsenan(He is a better option in goals ahead of Miller) McVitty,Sexton.O Connor and Enda O Reily figure in the panel although with the exception of Gilsenan,they will hardly start.
Gerard Smith who is going to be an absolute star and big Michael Argue may also be called in,both have 2 more years left at under 21.
It would be a good man that would be able to pick Cavans starting 15 right now.
Mickey Lyng had been going well in training,so he will be on the 40, Sean Brady half forward, Ciaran Galligan and Ray Cullivan at midfield, Mickey Hannon corner back and Mickey Brides in he other corner. Anthony Gaynor Centre back
After that, the Armagh lads will be guessing...
Well, PaddyPower has us at 15/2 and Cavan at 33/1 for Ulster. With such punter confidence, make room on the mantel for the Anglo Celt . . . the newspaper, I mean.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
I was just looking at the Armagh team that beat Galway.
That is a very Strong half back line of Aaron Kernan,Kieran Toner and Finian Moriarty.
Midfield,I know of James Lavery who is a good player but who is this Stephen Harold guy, and how good is he?
Johnny Hanratty or David McKenna will surely start at Centrefield on May 19th ?
When you add in Vernon,Dyas,Forker, the Kiernans and the brilliant Jamie Clarke into it,you just see the huge potential there in this Armagh team.
Firstly the half back line will include McKeever, the captain. Harold is a solid player, this season first time he has had any real run in the team and proved his worth when needed on Sunday. Vernon is only back one game and Dyas can be hit and miss. David McKenna isn't even on the panel so would say Harold has a good chance of staying put at midfield.
Quote from: supersub on April 11, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
I was just looking at the Armagh team that beat Galway.
That is a very Strong half back line of Aaron Kernan,Kieran Toner and Finian Moriarty.
Midfield,I know of James Lavery who is a good player but who is this Stephen Harold guy, and how good is he?
Johnny Hanratty or David McKenna will surely start at Centrefield on May 19th ?
When you add in Vernon,Dyas,Forker, the Kiernans and the brilliant Jamie Clarke into it,you just see the huge potential there in this Armagh team.
Firstly the half back line will include McKeever, the captain. Harold is a solid player, this season first time he has had any real run in the team and proved his worth when needed on Sunday. Vernon is only back one game and Dyas can be hit and miss. David McKenna isn't even on the panel so would say Harold has a good chance of staying put at midfield.
I don't think McKenna was ever on the Armagh panel in the past either under O Rourke?, Is he not that highly rated in Armagh, looks a good player when playing for Cross, He was class in the All Ireland replay last year in Breffni
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 05:04:42 PM
Quote from: supersub on April 11, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
I was just looking at the Armagh team that beat Galway.
That is a very Strong half back line of Aaron Kernan,Kieran Toner and Finian Moriarty.
Midfield,I know of James Lavery who is a good player but who is this Stephen Harold guy, and how good is he?
Johnny Hanratty or David McKenna will surely start at Centrefield on May 19th ?
When you add in Vernon,Dyas,Forker, the Kiernans and the brilliant Jamie Clarke into it,you just see the huge potential there in this Armagh team.
Firstly the half back line will include McKeever, the captain. Harold is a solid player, this season first time he has had any real run in the team and proved his worth when needed on Sunday. Vernon is only back one game and Dyas can be hit and miss. David McKenna isn't even on the panel so would say Harold has a good chance of staying put at midfield.
I don't think McKenna was ever on the Armagh panel in the past either under O Rourke?, Is he not that highly rated in Armagh, looks a good player when playing for Cross, He was class in the All Ireland replay last year in Breffni
Being from Cross it can be very difficult to get a chance to prove yourself on the Armagh panel as for most of the year you are with your club. McKenna has also been unlucky with injuries that have stopped any chances he might have had. Fit and eager he would be a good addition for Armagh.
Won't be expecting anything other than a Armagh win a Cavan panel thrown together a few weeks before a championship game is no preparation.
I can see the same happening , as its been the same way for the past few years with the u21's not being part of the Senior panel, and not knowing the strongest team. That's result of the u21's success , same as Cross players missing large parts of the league with Armagh most years
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 08:29:59 PM
I can see the same happening , as its been the same way for the past few years with the u21's not being part of the Senior panel, and not knowing the strongest team. That's result of the u21's success , same as Cross players missing large parts of the league with Armagh most years
Thay Cavan beal bocht is very hard to take seriously. Armagh could have been relegated to D3. How many ulsters have they compared to Cavan ?
Quote from: seafoid on April 11, 2013, 08:38:41 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 08:29:59 PM
I can see the same happening , as its been the same way for the past few years with the u21's not being part of the Senior panel, and not knowing the strongest team. That's result of the u21's success , same as Cross players missing large parts of the league with Armagh most years
Thay Cavan beal bocht is very hard to take seriously. Armagh could have been relegated to D3. How many ulsters have they compared to Cavan ?
They have 14 compared to our 39,but sure that means nothing. They have been streets ahead of us over the last decade.
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 08:29:59 PM
I can see the same happening , as its been the same way for the past few years with the u21's not being part of the Senior panel, and not knowing the strongest team. That's result of the u21's success , same as Cross players missing large parts of the league with Armagh most years
They have them well in advance of championship though, at best Cavan will have the U21's 4 weeks before most important Senior Game of year.
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 08:57:54 PM
Exactly 4 weeks, not the same as being with the panel since Januray to train for the biggest game of the year. 4 weeks is being thrown together. But not much they can do about it, when we all want to see the u21's do well
Rodney,i suppose it depends on how many of the under 21's are drafted in. McLoughlin,Clarke and Jack and Fergal Flan have played a fair bit for the seniors so they would probably slot in easily enough. If Hyland calls up many more however,we could see some potential problems with the team gelling together. Certain lads who played in that Roscommon decabcle could see themselves missing out on the 26/28 man championship panel altogether.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 11, 2013, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 11, 2013, 08:57:54 PM
Exactly 4 weeks, not the same as being with the panel since Januray to train for the biggest game of the year. 4 weeks is being thrown together. But not much they can do about it, when we all want to see the u21's do well
Rodney,i suppose it depends on how many of the under 21's are drafted in. McLoughlin,Clarke and Jack and Fergal Flan have played a fair bit for the seniors so they would probably slot in easily enough. If Hyland calls up many more however,we could see some potential problems with the team gelling together. Certain lads who played in that Roscommon decabcle could see themselves missing out on the 26/28 man championship panel altogether.
Yeah those lads would have played with Cavan in the past, the last game they would have played for the Seniors was back in Feb against Monaghan though. No doubt they will be able to adjust back into the Senior team.
Its still very much guessing a team, as the Ross game was a disaster.
Can't see anyone else but Jack, Clarke, McLoughlin and Flanagan being in the Senior team come first round time. All have played Senior Championship before and featured in the league already this year. I think the Cavan team is more or less predictable, I'd fancy my chances at naming around 12 of the starting 15. I think Armagh will win simply because they are a better side than us at the moment. I would however expect us to give them a decent game but ultimately fall short.
If you were at the Ross game it would have been hard to pick 12, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more U21's involved. Possibly Mooney and Conroy. I would actually start Mooney ahead of Pauric Reilly.
We can't keep throwing in U21s that are in good form ahead of lads that have more senior experience. Conroy or Mooney shouldn't be near the Senior Starting team in my opinion. What has Conroy done to put himself ahead of Barry Reilly or Niall Murray or Kevin Meehan or Kevin Tierney for a position? I hope and expect that the Cavan starting team against Armagh will have no Senior debutantes.
That is true, but some of our older lads are not good enough. What has Conroy done,? man of the match yesterday, he is in good form better form than Kevin Meehan, Tierney has only returned from Injury and Niall Murray who I rate, has barely played in the League, a few subs roles is all.
McKeever is a cert to start, Givney, McKiernan, Martin Dunne Alan Clarke, Rory Dunne at full bacl, Damian Reilly, Barry Reilly/Martin Reilly would be a hard call, I would start all those plus Killian Clarke corner back, McGlaughlin, Jack Brady, Fergal Flanagan
Man of the Match at an U21 game at the beginning of April should not hold much weight when choosing a Senior Championship team in May. He has no experience and we are developing a panel with a depth of experience, that won't happen if you keep throwing in debutantes year after year. Next year do we drop Conroy in favour of Conor Madden or another U21 player who impresses? This is why we threw these lads in at the deep end 2 years ago, so they would gain experience and provide a new solid base going forward.
I would be shocked if Dunne was started at full back against Armagh and I'd be mildly surprised if he made the team. I think McEnroe will play there and if not him, Killian Clarke.
Of course not, you have listed players who have either had very poor recent form such as Kevin Meehan, or Kevin Tierney who has only came back from Injury. He will be an option, and Niall Murray who has barely played in the League, Barry Reilly is a good option obviously. Would you just go and start somebody who was older, but who was out of form ahead of a player, that is in form and that is younger?
There should be a settled team year by year, but if players aren't performing in the League what do you expect?
Rory Dunne was one of our better backs against Ross, and played out of position
Why are you saying that Meehan is in such poor form? Age shouldn't be a factor but along with age comes experience, and experience is a huge factor. I think we would be better served by using the lads that have been on the Senior panel all year and playing consistently than throwing more young lads into the deep end. The consistent player turnover needs to stop.
For the most part, the players did perform in the league. They let themselves down against Roscommon but that was a long way from our best side. Does Rory Dunne have a "position" as such? He played one game at full back this year as far as I recall. The rest of the time he has been injured. McEnroe did as well as anyone we have played there in recent years and had a decent run of games in there so I'd go with him, unless Terry is determined that Clarke is destined to take the number 3 jersey and feels he is able for it.
The starting team also depend on the tactics Cavan employ, much will be focused on keeping Clarke quiet. McLoughlin, sadly, seems to be the best man marker Cavan have at the moment and it's likely the job will fall to him.
Kevin Meehan was very poor against Fermanagh and then lost his place. I think on that Fermanagh performance alone I would not start him in the Championship he then lost his place in the team, he seems to go through the motions at times.
McEnroe done solid at Full back and would probably get in ahead of Dunne as Dunne will hardly be stuck in the corner. McEnroe played centre back against ross when Clarke was out, but was very poor which was a surprise as that is his best position
Ronan Flanagan is an option at corner back
When will Jamie Clarke be back from his global tour, and will he be in decent enough shape to play?
I was thinking about who we've "found" through the league this year and i think it amounts to Harold, Donnelly and McCooey, all of who are unproven in my view. Granted, Harold had a great game against Galway but i remain unconvinced. The other two lads have an awful lot to do to be county footballers.
Quote from: Westside on April 12, 2013, 12:08:29 AM
Why are you saying that Meehan is in such poor form? Age shouldn't be a factor but along with age comes experience, and experience is a huge factor. I think we would be better served by using the lads that have been on the Senior panel all year and playing consistently than throwing more young lads into the deep end. The consistent player turnover needs to stop.
For the most part, the players did perform in the league. They let themselves down against Roscommon but that was a long way from our best side. Does Rory Dunne have a "position" as such? He played one game at full back this year as far as I recall. The rest of the time he has been injured. McEnroe did as well as anyone we have played there in recent years and had a decent run of games in there so I'd go with him, unless Terry is determined that Clarke is destined to take the number 3 jersey and feels he is able for it.
The starting team also depend on the tactics Cavan employ, much will be focused on keeping Clarke quiet. McLoughlin, sadly, seems to be the best man marker Cavan have at the moment and it's likely the job will fall to him.
Also Kevin Tierney didn't kick a ball in the League this year and has very little Championship experience, Barry Reilly only came into the team in the middle of the league, and never played Senior football with Cavan before then. Niall Murray only made a few subs roles this, and Kevin Meehan didn't start the last 2 games of the league. I wouldn't say they were getting consistent football.
Niall Murray was playing Senior League in 2011 and has played Senior Championship. Barry Reilly did appear for Cavan before, although briefly, in a league game. He also turned the Sligo game when he came on this year, and most importantly, all 4 have been with the Senior Panel all year. All have some degree of Senior experience. Conroy and Mooney have none at all.
Rodney would you genuinely have these two lads in your starting team? And if not would you give them a place on the bench before the lads mentioned above?
Going to take a stab at a championship 15
1. P Mc Evoy
2. J Morgan
3. B Donaghy
4. P Mc Keown
5. A Kernan
6. K Mc Keever
7. F Moriarity
8. K Toner
9. S Harold/J Lavery
10. C Rafferty
11. C Vernon
12. K Dyas
13. G Mc Parland
14. S Forker
15. J Clarke
Forward options: T Kernan, B Mallon, A Forker, JJ Clarke, E Mc Verry, A Duffy
Midfield options: J Lavery/S Harold, J Hanratty
Defence options: D Mc Kenna, M Sheils, J Donnelly,
Barry came on in a McKenna Cup game against Derry 2 years ago but that was it, He didn't feature in the league that year with being involved with the u21's. same as last year, also had injury trouble last year.
If those lads are showing form they are worth having on the pane.l and close to the team. Killian Clarke was thrown in at the deep end last year with no experience against Donegal and done alright. I would expect Mackey to start , he was fairy consistent for most of the league
So you would drop Niall Murray or Barry Reilly or Meehan off the match day panel and include Mooney or Conroy if they continue to play well at U21? Couldn't disagree with that more. Unless we had an U21 player absolutely dominating games, and we don't, I don't think we need to be bringing in any more inexperience to an already young panel. Conroy or Mooney are currently no better than any of the lads mentioned above.
I never said I would drop Barry Reilly did I ? He will be close to starting, I would have Mooney on current form over Meehan on the panel. What harm would that be, Meehan has very average this year and lucky to be on the panel in my opinion ,whatever about what he did with Cavan u21 in 2011...
I'm not a big fan of Meehan either to be honest. But nonetheless I think we need to be careful about pushing inexperienced players onto the panel from U21 year after year. We should very soon be reaching a point where only an outstanding U21 player should be added to the Senior panel before the Championship.
Yeah, The Seniors can't use them during the League so its always a big ask throwing them in with no experience but that's the way it is I guess. Wouldn't be the case if the Seniors weren't so inconsistent and had a settled team , instead of going
over board with a load of u21 players.
Next year should be more settled with the lads like Flanagan, Brady, Mooney and Clarke all overage for U21.
It's next year that i would be hoping for major improvements.
* Has clarke another year U21?
Yeah those lads will help the Seniors in the league next year
Clarke has another year u21
Is there any chance we will see Larry Reilly?
Quote from: Onion Bag on April 12, 2013, 10:13:42 PM
Is there any chance we will see Larry Reilly?
def not. we sent him to n korea for 8 weeks to kill their army and eat their nukes.
I like your suggested line-up, Onion Bag, but how are we going to clog up the defense so that the Cavan forwards don't have acres of space in which to run riot and expose our vulnerable full backs? Charlie Vernon playing as an extra half back and set-up man for the forwards?
Quote from: Oraisteach on April 13, 2013, 07:52:37 PM
I like your suggested line-up, Onion Bag, but how are we going to clog up the defense so that the Cavan forwards don't have acres of space in which to run riot and expose our vulnerable full backs? Charlie Vernon playing as an extra half back and set-up man for the forwards?
That would be my idea, CV marking space behind midfield and stop the runners coming through
Vernon, as you may now know is out of the game (broken a bone in his foot)
David McKenna is not on the county Panel and as far as I hear has no interest in county football.
Stephen Harold has been progressing well all year and is what Armagh have been lacking for a while - a mobile ball playing midfielder
To my mind I would say the guarenteed starters are...
1.McEvoy
2.
3.B. Donaghy
4.
5. A. Kernan
6. K. Toner
7. C. McKeever
8. S. Harold
9. J. Lavery
10. C. Rafferty
11.
12. K. Dyas
13. J. Clarke
14. S. Forker
15.
Realistic defensive options are Morgan, McKeown, and Shields the 2 Cross men would be most people's choice but shields has more game time behind him.
Realistic Attacking options are J. Hanratty (CHF) and a toss up between T. Kernan / Gavin McParland for 15 (personally I think McParland has more of an impact coming in as a sub)
Just a word on James Donnelly, he was always a midfielder (won minor AI there) played CHB for club this year winning Intermediate champ. recruited onto panel and was be played as a corner back (mainly out of necessity) didnt get great reviews but for me was being as to mark often nippy CFs which is not always easy for a big man. A good player who will hopefully see more game time in a more central position.
How many of the Cavan lads from the championship exit last year are likely to start against Armagh ?
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
How many of the Cavan lads from the championship exit last year are likely to start against Armagh ?
From the Kildare Game
J Reilly; Yes unless O'Mara is fit then its 50/50
K Clarke, Yes
P O'Reilly, Should be a no but will play
D Tighe; No
K Meehan, No
D Reilly, Yes
J McLoughlin; Yes
D Givney, Yes
T Corr; Yes
N Smith, No
G McKiernan Yes
R Flanagan; Probably in defence
N McDermott Probably but i wouldn't start him
E Keating Yes
Not sure about Jason McGlaughlin, he looks awfully light for Senior Football. I mentioned before that he would be in the mix, but the Donegal u21 final game he was brushed off the ball by Paddy McBrearty. If he was to mark somebody like Clarke, he is obviously not as physical but still a big step up from u21's.
Not sure if Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady would be up to the task of marking Clarke, McGlaughlin will still probably get that role.
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 23, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
Not sure about Jason McGlaughlin, he looks awfully light for Senior Football. I mentioned before that he would be in the mix, but the Donegal u21 final game he was brushed off the ball by Paddy McBrearty. If he was to mark somebody like Clarke, he is obviously not as physical but still a big step up from u21's.
Not sure if Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady would be up to the task of marking Clarke, McGlaughlin will still probably get that role.
Paddy McBrearty would have made shite of either Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady he is a beast of a man.
Quote from: tommysmith on April 23, 2013, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 23, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
Not sure about Jason McGlaughlin, he looks awfully light for Senior Football. I mentioned before that he would be in the mix, but the Donegal u21 final game he was brushed off the ball by Paddy McBrearty. If he was to mark somebody like Clarke, he is obviously not as physical but still a big step up from u21's.
Not sure if Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady would be up to the task of marking Clarke, McGlaughlin will still probably get that role.
Paddy McBrearty would have made shite of either Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady he is a beast of a man.
True, but there is lot more players physcial at Senior Level with the build of Paddy McBrearty. Stefan Forker is hardy enough.
Quote from: tommysmith on April 23, 2013, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
How many of the Cavan lads from the championship exit last year are likely to start against Armagh ?
From the Kildare Game
J Reilly; Yes unless O'Mara is fit then its 50/50
K Clarke, Yes
P O'Reilly, Should be a no but will play
D Tighe; No
K Meehan, No
D Reilly, Yes
J McLoughlin; Yes
D Givney, Yes
T Corr; Yes
N Smith, No
G McKiernan Yes
R Flanagan; Probably in defence
N McDermott Probably but i wouldn't start him
E Keating Yes
So 5 or so the next day won't have as much experience.
And are there many players that emigrated?
How are they going in challenge matches ?
Last year I think they were beaten by Leitrim a few days before Kildare.
They all will have some experience i dont expect there to be any championship debuts.
The likes of Mark McKeever and Cian Mackey will play.
Martin Dunne has never played Senior Championship before, more than likely he will be starting Corner forward.
I see Gearoid McKiernan has done his cruciate and is out for the season, a terrible blow for him and Cavan.
http://gaeliclife.com/2013/04/cavan-suffer-huge-injury-blow/
The entire season, bad blow alright.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 24, 2013, 01:35:45 PM
I see Gearoid McKiernan has done his cruciate and is out for the season, a terrible blow for him and Cavan.
A bad blow for the lad. Probably means David Givney will move into midfield.
grugan back as well as clarke
http://gaeliclife.com/2013/04/grugan-and-clarke-back-for-armagh/
Well, the league's done and dusted, the sun's shining (at least here), and I'm feeling an unusual optimism not only about the Cavan game but about the whole Ulster championship. I think we're able to dispatch Cavan and Fermanagh, and though a match-up with Monaghan (no disrespect intended to the Saffrons) would be a tense affair, I think we're better than Meath and can salvage a win there. Which leaves the final, and with all the leading contenders beating the snot out of each other on the dark side of the draw, I think our beyond the Blackwater neighbours with emerge punch-drunk, so you never know. So, looking forward to the Breffni tussle, with Springtime elation at the thought of Paulie winning matches, I do hope that someone is keeping the hinges on the back door well oiled.
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/440_zpscf93ab85.jpg)
Will this game be on telly?
Any word on Andy Mallon returning? If he hasn't returned by now I would imagine his county career is over. I hope he is back, but if not, I think he deserves the usual plaudits that county greats receive when they quit.
Quality corner back, Part of the Galactico Parnells team now.
Toner now too as well as Vernon. Grimley might have to go begging to Mal Mackin
http://gaeliclife.com/2013/05/toner-major-doubt-for-armagh/
Quote from: Don Johnson on May 02, 2013, 12:08:04 PM
Toner now too as well as Vernon. Grimley might have to go begging to Mal Mackin
http://gaeliclife.com/2013/05/toner-major-doubt-for-armagh/
Harold and Lavery started midfield the last match.
Armagh captain Ciaran McKeever has made the startling claim that he is a target for referees who want to "nail" him.
McKeever says that an inter-county referee told him last January that he was being "head-hunted" and he believes he is a "marked man" every time he goes out on the football field.
"The most annoying point for me is, and I am not afraid to say it, in January, I knew I was being head-hunted. An inter-county referee told me that the first chance they would get, they were going to nail me. That is the sad point," he said.
However his claims have been vehemently shot down by national referees chairman Pat McEnaney, who insisted yesterday that no instruction would ever be given to a referee to go after an individual.
"I would categorically refute what Ciaran is saying. Absolutely. There is no way any instruction would go out to referees to pursue an individual. That is not how we do our business," said the three-time All-Ireland final referee.
"And I'm certain none of our referees would take such a policy into their own hands. That is just not the way we operate and it is wrong.
"Our referees are not refereeing to assessors in the stands or to anything that has happened in the past. The clear instruction is that they referee what they see in front of them, and I'm very satisfied with the performances in football."
McEnaney knows McKeever personally and feels that if the player had an issue, he should have discussed it with him.
"There is no point in making such a statement unless you are prepared to back it up and I'd challenge him to provide more information," declared McEnaney.
McKeever (below) has just finished serving a four-week suspension imposed for a verbal altercation with Louth midfielder Brian White in the closing stages of a league meeting on March 16 in the Athletic Grounds.
The incident took place when White was taking a sideline kick and McKeever was acting as his team's water-carrier.
The Armagh defender accepted the offer of a hearing to defend himself against the four-week penalty, but the Central Hearings Committee (CHC) subsequently found that the incident alleged was more likely to have happened than not.
"Of course I was annoyed with the suspension I got and the terms," stated McKeever, who said he would continue to play the game the way he has always played it.
"At the end of the day, what won't kill you, will make you stronger. I will still go out and play the game I like to play and whatever happens, happens," he said.
Bizzare thing to say from McKeever.
Pure stupid thing to say but sure its all the rage to say stupid things. Canavan in the papers today crying about the rough treatment his players are getting, he hadn't too much to say when Barry Owens was putting the boot into a Cavan man who was lying on the ground in the league earlier in the year.
Anyway, does McKeever think that he will get referees on his side by saying this?
If McKeever commits a foul that borders a red, will this interview pop into the ref's head when he's deciding what to do and soften his hand?.. Perhaps.
Is there no one in Armagh that would tell McKeever to stay quiet and stop making an eejit out of himself?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
Is there no one in Armagh that would tell McKeever to stay quiet and stop making an eejit out of himself?
There is and he will, Paul Grimley!
According to twitter.. "Niall McCoy @McCoyNiall..2m
"Jamie Clarke played his first 35 minutes for Armagh today, v Louth, since his break. He scored a hat-trick. "
Clarke looked very fit today but have to say no real intensity to it.
Quote from: our_fella on May 05, 2013, 05:12:47 PM
According to twitter.. "Niall McCoy @McCoyNiall..2m
"Jamie Clarke played his first 35 minutes for Armagh today, v Louth, since his break. He scored a hat-trick. "
A class act & good to see him back.
What was the score in the Armagh-Louth challenge?
Louth 4-14
Armagh 4-13
Defences on top so!
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2013, 11:35:12 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
Is there no one in Armagh that would tell McKeever to stay quiet and stop making an eejit out of himself?
There is and he will, Paul Grimley!
I see you have answered that in the future tense. When we definitively know that Paul has done this?
It should be a great example of McKeever learning and also of Grimley's famed man management skills.
Quote from: LCohen on May 06, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2013, 11:35:12 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
Is there no one in Armagh that would tell McKeever to stay quiet and stop making an eejit out of himself?
There is and he will, Paul Grimley!
I see you have answered that in the future tense. When we definitively know that Paul has done this?
It should be a great example of McKeever learning and also of Grimley's famed man management skills.
Cohen, it would be hard to go back in the past and have Paul fix the issue wouldn't it?
What tense would you have had me use???
I will check my crystal ball and get back to you, K ::)
Quote from: stew on May 06, 2013, 06:38:32 PM
Quote from: LCohen on May 06, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: stew on May 04, 2013, 11:35:12 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 04, 2013, 06:39:26 PM
Is there no one in Armagh that would tell McKeever to stay quiet and stop making an eejit out of himself?
There is and he will, Paul Grimley!
I see you have answered that in the future tense. When we definitively know that Paul has done this?
It should be a great example of McKeever learning and also of Grimley's famed man management skills.
Cohen, it would be hard to go back in the past and have Paul fix the issue wouldn't it?
What tense would you have had me use???
I will check my crystal ball and get back to you, K ::)
Your possibly missing the point there.
Grimley has been in the role for a while now. McKeever has made a couple of gaffes during his tenure. Grimley has not addressed it yet. Why are so sure that Grimley will address this in the future when he has clearly not successfully done it in the past?
Fair few injuries in the Armagh team heading into this one. Toner, Donaghy and Vernon at a minimum likely to miss out. Not as confident as I was a few weeks back
Cavan missing their first choice midfield partnership of Corr and mckiernan. Looks like one of the backups, Declan mckiernan is also struggling. That means we will have to play someone in there that is not used to it at this level, along with most likely Givney.
Quote from: Itchy on May 06, 2013, 10:49:17 PM
Cavan missing their first choice midfield partnership of Corr and mckiernan. Looks like one of the backups, Declan mckiernan is also struggling. That means we will have to play someone in there that is not used to it at this level, along with most likely Givney.
Surely Givney would be a first choice midfielder?
Quote from: regal on May 07, 2013, 09:29:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 06, 2013, 10:49:17 PM
Cavan missing their first choice midfield partnership of Corr and mckiernan. Looks like one of the backups, Declan mckiernan is also struggling. That means we will have to play someone in there that is not used to it at this level, along with most likely Givney.
Surely Givney would be a first choice midfielder?
He was played in full forward during the League, when Eugene Keating was injured. Givney and Geroid McKiernan are both attack minded players and it doesn't work that well, so they played Geroid McKiernan and Corr who is more defensive at midfield. With G McKiernan now out Injured and Corr out, Givney will most likely be midield. His best position anyway.
Hopefully this time next week we will know the line ups. My guess for the armagh team would be:
1 - mcevoy
2 - morgan
3 - donaghy
4 - mckeown or shields
5 - akernan
6 - aforker
7 - mckeever
8 - harold
9 - lavery
10 - rafferty
11 - dyas
12 - tkernan
13 - jclarke
14 - sforker
15 - mcparland
If toner is fit I would imagine he will go to either 6 or 8 with aforker or harold moving to the forward line in favour of kernan / mcparland.
Other options include mckenna / moriarty / hanratty / bmallon / vernon if fit.
Did anyone see the armagh v louth game, if so, who impressed?
Quote from: AFS on May 09, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
Quote from: regal on May 09, 2013, 09:05:10 AM
Hopefully this time next week we will know the line ups. My guess for the armagh team would be:
1 - mcevoy
2 - morgan
3 - donaghy
4 - mckeown or shields
5 - akernan
6 - aforker
7 - mckeever
8 - harold
9 - lavery
10 - rafferty
11 - dyas
12 - tkernan
13 - jclarke
14 - sforker
15 - mcparland
If toner is fit I would imagine he will go to either 6 or 8 with aforker or harold moving to the forward line in favour of kernan / mcparland.
Other options include mckenna / moriarty / hanratty / bmallon / vernon if fit.
Did anyone see the armagh v louth game, if so, who impressed?
No one really, apart from Clarke. It wasn't a proper game for the most part. Armagh used 35+ players, including half a dozen lads from the host club.
Is that not an odd thing to be doing a few weeks before a big game, appeasing a club by playing their players? What benefit is such a game to either team?
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 23, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
Not sure about Jason McGlaughlin, he looks awfully light for Senior Football. I mentioned before that he would be in the mix, but the Donegal u21 final game he was brushed off the ball by Paddy McBrearty. If he was to mark somebody like Clarke, he is obviously not as physical but still a big step up from u21's.
Not sure if Oisin Moynagh or Killian Brady would be up to the task of marking Clarke, McGlaughlin will still probably get that role.
Was just reading back through the thread and saw this. Jaysus Rodney I thought McLoughlin did a decent job on McBrearty considering every single ball that was put in by Donegal was aimed at McBrearty and McBrearty is an animal of a young lad. At the end of the day he got a 10 minute burst out of the whole game. I think McLoughlin would do a decent enough job on Clarke, hes the best we have for the job in my opinion.
Quote from: AFS on May 07, 2013, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 06, 2013, 10:27:21 PM
Fair few injuries in the Armagh team heading into this one. Toner, Donaghy and Vernon at a minimum likely to miss out. Not as confident as I was a few weeks back
Donaghy played in Dorsey yesterday.
Good to hear I understood he hadn't trained or played since National League and was named at the recent county board meeting (the one club delegates are at whatever that's called) as one of the injury doubts.
Have Armagh a challenge game this weekend? if so i'd imagine you'd see as close to the championship team as you're gonna get. We're 1 defender, 1 midfielder (open for discussion) and 2 forwards short of a really good side...but i suppose that ratio goes to about another 10 teams in Ireland.
ARMAGH manager Paul Grimley has handed championship debuts to three players for their Ulster preliminary round clash with Cavan on Sunday.
Mark Shields starts in defence Stephen Harold will line out in midfield while 18-year-old Ciaron O'Hanlon will play in attack.
Armagh: P McEvoy; P McKeown, D McKenna, M Shields; A Kernan, B Donaghy, C McKeever; S Harold, J Lavery; C Rafferty, C O'Hanlon, K Dyas; T Kernan, J Clarke, S Forker.
Armagh team
Mc evoy
Mc keown shields donaghy
Mc kenna mc keever kernan
Lavery Harold
Ohanlon dyas kernan
Rafferty Clarke forker
Toner injured as is Aidan forker and Morgan
Some baptism for killeavys o hanlon
Armagh will be far from full strength with Toner, Forker, Morgan, and Vernon all out.
Did forker and Morgan get injured at the weekend? Grimley let the co players play with clubs at the weekend. bit strange
Forker and Morgan have been injured
I hanlon will be a star but it might be a little soon for him
That being said I am still confident
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 13, 2013, 09:42:50 PM
Armagh will be far from full strength with Toner, Forker, Morgan, and Vernon all out.
Did forker and Morgan get injured at the weekend? Grimley let the co players play with clubs at the weekend. bit strange
As far as I know Forker did not play at weekend. Morgan was injured a couple of weeks ago.
What about McParland?
Big ask of young O'Hanlon, best of luck to him. Christ knows how it'll go with that team. Caolan Rafferty dislocated a finger at weekend too, prob not keep him out tho.
Did O'Hanlon get a kick of the ball in the league? He's young, so what's his story?
Quote from: naka on May 13, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
Armagh team
Mc evoy
Mc keown shields donaghy
Mc kenna mc keever kernan
Lavery Harold
Ohanlon dyas kernan
Rafferty Clarke forker
Toner injured as is Aidan forker and Morgan
Some baptism for killeavys o hanlon
Big step up for O'Hanlon. He is some prospect.
Armagh by 4.
Ideal draw for both Cavan and Armagh. Both need high octane games to build confidence and that winning feeling.
Expect lots of goals in this game.
I'm hoping Armagh sneak through by one point.
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 13, 2013, 10:16:13 PM
Did O'Hanlon get a kick of the ball in the league? He's young, so what's his story?
He was playing with his school in the MacRory Cup so didn't play in the league.
Thanks, ranch. What was his school? St. Paul's Bessbrook or Coleman's?
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 13, 2013, 10:25:45 PM
Thanks, ranch. What was his school? St. Paul's Bessbrook or Coleman's?
Bessbrook. He also played for Killeavy minors in an ulster club final at Christmas against Glen, Maghera. He played wing forward for armagh minors last year against tyrone in the athletic grounds.
Toner, AForker and Morgan are massive blows for Armagh.
Fair play to Grimley for giving youth a chance. I make it that there are 6 debutants to the ulster championship and 5 others who will be playing their second ulster match! I would imagine this is the youngest armagh team to play in the championship for 30 years?
O'Hanlon, Dyas, Clarke, Forker, Harold and Raffery..... exciting times ahead.
Huge call starting O'Hanlon. Good luck to the lad. Seems a nice enough fella. Seen him a few times and there is definitely talent there. To be the playmaker at 18 is a big ask!
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship
Breffni Park, Sunday 19th May 2013
Cavan v Armagh 2pm
Please Print your ticket(s) for this weekend's game! Your Season Ticket card will not be accepted at the stiles. It is reserved seating so you need to print your seat! Your tickets have been allocated and are now available to print via your on-line account.
Please enter via the turnstiles at rear of stand, stiles 47-50
Will be very interesting to see how the Armagh system pans out on Sunday. Instead of the swarm defence it looks like all out attack for Armagh. In an era where so many teams play with a fear of losing its a brave call by Grimley.
How do ye rate the Armagh Minors? Cavan beat Armagh by 1pt in the Minor league, but Armagh were missing 5 regulars. Cavan were missing a few aswell, Cavan's other results in the Minor league were really poor..
Quote from: yellowcard on May 13, 2013, 11:39:55 PM
Will be very interesting to see how the Armagh system pans out on Sunday. Instead of the swarm defence it looks like all out attack for Armagh. In an era where so many teams play with a fear of losing its a brave call by Grimley.
Brave yes but will it pan out? that is the question.
I like the fresh approach but I have my doubts about blooding so many youngsters, i hope they do well obviously but feck, not close to what i thought he would do, PG is making his mark.
It is an interesting team and I reckon you will see a rotating FF line of 2 out of Clarke, O'Hanlon and Forker. I know James Morgan has been struggling with a hamstring injury for a while so I'm not overly surprised he is not risked. Outside of that there is very little you could argue about. Maybe Johnny Hanratty in as the forward line, though very mobile is not very physically strong, but the way they want to play I reckon mobility and pace is the key to it.
I like the idea of blooding youngsters in this match. What's the worst that can happen? Better to do it now than in a Backdoor game when it's win or go home.
The team selection also in my opinion makes it clear that PG is building for the next manager coming in. Are Aaron Kernan and Ciaran McKeever the oldest players on the team?
Is Gavin McParland injured. Also what about Eugene McVerry, never really appeared during the league. Is he injured?
Quote from: Feckitt on May 14, 2013, 09:28:47 AM
Is Gavin McParland injured. Also what about Eugene McVerry, never really appeared during the league. Is he injured?
I heard that McParland had a slight injury OK. There would be a doubt that he would start anyway as he had a very inconsistent league. He seems to perform well coming off the bench so hopefully he will get a chance to impress at some stage, the subs are being announced tonight I think.
Eugene McVerry was poor when he got a few chances earlier in the year and wouldn't have been a factor in the selection of the first 15 I imagine.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 14, 2013, 09:25:52 AM
I like the idea of blooding youngsters in this match. What's the worst that can happen? Better to do it now than in a Backdoor game when it's win or go home.
I agree with that David. The guys who have been replaced have had their chance and haven't really took it. PG said at the start of the year that he was going to give the young lads their chance and he has been true to his word.
having looked at the team
i can see hanratty coming on with mc parland and finian,
it is a very mobile attack minded outfit and dyas should be ok at chf
i hope raffert takes his chance, he is extremely powerful and has great potential he just needs to score more.
Quoteit is a very mobile attack minded outfit and dyas should be ok at chf
It would be great if Dyas could push on from his last performance.
Be interesting to see who has the best performers from the younger players. Armagh will always produce decent underage talent and bring them through, Cavan have had massive success at u21 level and really need to start showing this at senior level.
Cavan by 2.
Cavan wans should be feeling pretty confident about this one?
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/05/cavan-v-armagh-event-info-2/
Is that supposed to be Sean Cavanagh in an Armagh shirt ?
The Cavan fella looks like he is suffering from Bell's Palsy!
Quote from: Orior on May 14, 2013, 03:44:28 PM
Cavan wans should be feeling pretty confident about this one?
Not really it hard to know what to expect to be honest.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 14, 2013, 09:25:52 AM
I like the idea of blooding youngsters in this match. What's the worst that can happen? Better to do it now than in a Backdoor game when it's win or go home.
The team selection also in my opinion makes it clear that PG is building for the next manager coming in. Are Aaron Kernan and Ciaran McKeever the oldest players on the team?
Aye sure it's a handy enough starter for Armagh, even the bookies have that one worked out. As you rightly say what's the worst that can happen plucky Cavan might raise their game and give ye a bit of a fright and you get a look at some fringe players to see if they have what it takes for the bigger tests that lie ahead. Armagh have to be targeting at least an Ulster final from a very lopsided draw.
Cavan don't have a settled full back, midfield, or full forward. Armagh have a young team but have some top quality experienced players mixed in there too. So it's a huge task for us. A hammering here for Cavan would be a massive blow. If we can be there or there abouts it'll show we are in fact on the right track.
1. Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough Shamrocks)
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels)
3. Rory Dunne (Redhills)
4. Killian Clarke (Shercock)
5. James McEnroe (Ramor United)
6. Alan Clarke (Kingscourt) Captain
7. Ronan Flanagan (Castlerahan)
8. Damien O'Reilly (Belturbet)
9. David Givney (Mountnugent)
10. Cian Mackey (Castlerahan)
11. Jack Brady (Ramor United)
12. Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge)
13. Niall McDermott (Ballinagh)
14. Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels)
15. Eugene Keating (Saint Sylvesters)
Cavan team for Sunday. Two debutantes in Gilsenan and Dunne. Surprised to see Damien O'Reilly at midfield but Corr must be injured. I'd be slightly worried about Gilsenan's temperament in goals but he can kick a long range free and is a decent shot stopper. Other than that it's probably the best Cavan team we can put out.
Hard game to call this, Armagh have a lot of young inexperienced players and playing away from home in an Ulster championship match its hard to get a win anywhere. I think it will go down to the wire and could go either way. Would gladly settle for a 1 point win.
Quote from: Westside on May 14, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
1. Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough Shamrocks)
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels)
3. Rory Dunne (Redhills)
4. Killian Clarke (Shercock)
5. James McEnroe (Ramor United)
6. Alan Clarke (Kingscourt) Captain
7. Ronan Flanagan (Castlerahan)
8. Damien O'Reilly (Belturbet)
9. David Givney (Mountnugent)
10. Cian Mackey (Castlerahan)
11. Jack Brady (Ramor United)
12. Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge)
13. Niall McDermott (Ballinagh)
14. Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels)
15. Eugene Keating (Saint Sylvesters)
Cavan team for Sunday. Two debutantes in Gilsenan and Dunne. Surprised to see Damien O'Reilly at midfield but Corr must be injured. I'd be slightly worried about Gilsenan's temperament in goals but he can kick a long range free and is a decent shot stopper. Other than that it's probably the best Cavan team we can put out.
Think you were a little surprised when I mentioned Dunne for full back before.. Big call for Gilsenan,
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 14, 2013, 07:25:06 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 14, 2013, 09:25:52 AM
I like the idea of blooding youngsters in this match. What's the worst that can happen? Better to do it now than in a Backdoor game when it's win or go home.
The team selection also in my opinion makes it clear that PG is building for the next manager coming in. Are Aaron Kernan and Ciaran McKeever the oldest players on the team?
Aye sure it's a handy enough starter for Armagh, even the bookies have that one worked out. As you rightly say what's the worst that can happen plucky Cavan might raise their game and give ye a bit of a fright and you get a look at some fringe players to see if they have what it takes for the bigger tests that lie ahead. Armagh have to be targeting at least an Ulster final from a very lopsided draw.
What I meant was I'd rather loose a game in a now devaluled provincial championship than loose a qualifier. No disrespect to Cavan but I don't see defeat to them being that devasting at this stage of a rebuild. Going 0-2 again this year would be much worse
I was indeed and still am. Putting in a lad who has played 1 full competitive game at full back all year and who has struggled for fitness all year for the opening round of the Championship is a big call by Hyland. I don't think Killian Clarke should be starting either.
Why so on Killian Clarke?
Who else would start full back though. McEnroe would, but he is selected at half back
Think that team might change, be very surpised if Mark McKeever doesn't start. I don't know why teams have to name the side so early in the week,
is it some rule by the Gaa for the Championship? League teams weren't named until friday. Obviously the championship has a higher profile,
I just don't think his form this year warranted a start for the seniors. Caught for two goals in the Ulster U21 Championship. Gave away a lot of frees in the first half v Cork, granted he played well when brought to midfield. But He doesn't have the physicality for midfield at Senior yet surely. I thought last year he didn't look ready for Senior football and that was when he was imperious in the U21 campaign. I still don't think he's ready this year.
But look, Hyland knows best I'm sure and when there actually does seem to be some strength in depth he wouldn't be starting Clarke if he didn't think he was able for it. Hopefully the experience of last year will have stood to him and he can play his part well.
Can only work with who is on the panel. Dermot Sheridan would be a good addition but has been injured on/off for the last 6/7 months.
Clarke was thrown in too soon last year, and is still very light. Even against Cork he looked light in the u21's in the full back line. Still another year u21. Oisin Moynagh offers a lot more physical presence than McGlaughlin, but McGlaughin was probably selected to man mark Clarke.
Moynagh done a good job on Mattie Donnelly in the u21 final in 2011, never got a chance to nail down the full back position with the seniors. Don't think he was that bad at corner back during the league
It is a very average Cavan team.
Quote from: Westside on May 14, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
Cavan don't have a settled full back, midfield, or full forward. Armagh have a young team but have some top quality experienced players mixed in there too. So it's a huge task for us. A hammering here for Cavan would be a massive blow. If we can be there or there abouts it'll show we are in fact on the right track.
Forget cute kerry hoorism, this is cute Cavan hoorism at it's finest.
Quote from: stew on May 15, 2013, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 14, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
Cavan don't have a settled full back, midfield, or full forward. Armagh have a young team but have some top quality experienced players mixed in there too. So it's a huge task for us. A hammering here for Cavan would be a massive blow. If we can be there or there abouts it'll show we are in fact on the right track.
Forget cute kerry hoorism, this is cute Cavan hoorism at it's finest.
It's true all the same. There wasn't a settled full back during the league due to injuries. Givney didn't play at midfield in the league and Damian Reilly was in defence. Keating missed the majority of the league through Injury.
Still would expect Cavan to be there or thereabouts. Depends how well Jamie Clarke is marked, although Stefan Forker is capable of doing damage aswell. Aaron Kernan is always a big threat from half back. Kevin Dyass gets a few scores every game too. Clarke is the obvious threat.
Be surprised if that's how Cavan will line out on Sunday
1. Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough Shamrocks) Don't think he has even played a game in league for Seniors and prone to . . doing something stupid.
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels) Still very inexperienced for this level but is good player.
3. Rory Dunne (Redhills) Being injured for 2 or 3 years and has played very little this year.
4. Killian Clarke (Shercock) Still very inexperienced for this level but is good player, could make surprise . . . . move to midfield.
5. James McEnroe (Ramor United) Being injured or unavailable for few years and has played at full back in a few . league games.
6. Alan Clarke (Kingscourt) Captain Steady enough center back
7. Ronan Flanagan (Castlerahan) Not a favorite of mine, more likely to go backwards with ball that forward.
8. Damien O'Reilly (Belturbet) Would prefer see him at wing back.
9. David Givney (Mountnugent) Decent midfielder.
10. Cian Mackey (Castlerahan) Good in early part of league hope that form comes back.
11. Jack Brady (Ramor United) Would rather see him in Corner.
12. Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge) He will do a job on A Kernan.
13. Niall McDermott (Ballinagh) One of Hylands Favorites and prob should not be starting
14. Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels) Top Scorer in League so automatic choice.
15. Eugene Keating (Saint Sylvesters) On his day could destroy any full back.
I would have like to see the following starting James Reilly, Mossy Corr, Martin Reilly, and Mark McKeever. Mossy may be injured but no excuse for the others not starting.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 02:04:11 PM
1. Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough Shamrocks) Don't think he has even played a game in league for Seniors and prone to . . doing something stupid.
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels) Still very inexperienced for this level but is good player.
3. Rory Dunne (Redhills) Being injured for 2 or 3 years and has played very little this year.
4. Killian Clarke (Shercock) Still very inexperienced for this level but is good player, could make surprise . . . . move to midfield.
5. James McEnroe (Ramor United) Being injured or unavailable for few years and has played at full back in a few . league games.
6. Alan Clarke (Kingscourt) Captain Steady enough center back
7. Ronan Flanagan (Castlerahan) Not a favorite of mine, more likely to go backwards with ball that forward.
8. Damien O'Reilly (Belturbet) Would prefer see him at wing back.
9. David Givney (Mountnugent) Decent midfielder.
10. Cian Mackey (Castlerahan) Good in early part of league hope that form comes back.
11. Jack Brady (Ramor United) Would rather see him in Corner.
12. Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge) He will do a job on A Kernan.
13. Niall McDermott (Ballinagh) One of Hylands Favorites and prob should not be starting
14. Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels) Top Scorer in League so automatic choice.
15. Eugene Keating (Saint Sylvesters) On his day could destroy any full back.
I would have like to see the following starting James Reilly, Mossy Corr, Martin Reilly, and Mark McKeever. Mossy may be injured but no excuse for the others not starting.
Who would you start instead of McDermott? He had a great game against Meath in Navan, played well against Wicklow, was poor against Fermanagh then again so was Martin Dunne. Dunne was also poor against Ros in the final game and has been in poor form with Cavan Gaels recently. While McDermott has been playing very well
Martin Reilly and put Jack Brady in the corner.
Martin Reilly must have picked up a knock because he played in almost every league game was playing well. I would have had him half forward instead of Flanagan, but it's probably more about tactics to try and stop Kernan making runs up the pitch and Flanagan is a more defensive minded player.
Bit shocked that Gilsenan is starting over Miller, hopefully he doesn't get a rush of blood to the head.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 15, 2013, 02:29:46 PM
Martin Reilly must have picked up a knock because he played in almost every league game was playing well. I would have had him half forward instead of Flanagan, but it's probably more about tactics to try and stop Kernan making runs up the pitch and Flanagan is a more defensive minded player.
Bit shocked that Gilsenan is starting over Miller, hopefully he doesn't get a rush of blood to the head.
McKeever should be playing aswell thats a mystery also.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 02:32:00 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 15, 2013, 02:29:46 PM
Martin Reilly must have picked up a knock because he played in almost every league game was playing well. I would have had him half forward instead of Flanagan, but it's probably more about tactics to try and stop Kernan making runs up the pitch and Flanagan is a more defensive minded player.
Bit shocked that Gilsenan is starting over Miller, hopefully he doesn't get a rush of blood to the head.
McKeever should be playing aswell thats a mystery also.
I agree, usually one of the first lads that would be starting
Artcile from the Gaa site :
Hyland Keeping Cavan on an Upward Curve
Tuesday, May 14, 2013
In a county where patience hasn't always been an abundant virtue, Terry Hyland is sticking admirably to his long-term vision for the development of the county's senior football team.
Keep them on a slight upward step all the time, that they can see progress. That they can see progress within the management and what's been done for them
Terry Hyland
Hyland's young side host Armagh in the Preliminary Round of the Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship at Kingspan Breffni Park on Sunday (throw-in 2pm), and the Lacken man isn't setting any ambitious goals for the year other than for his team to make a little more progress.
Last year, Hyland took over as Cavan senior manager and made the brave decision to base his team primarily around the U21 side he led to an All-Ireland final in 2011. With a very inexperienced squad, Cavan lost to Donegal in the Preliminary Round of the Ulster Championship and were heavily beaten by Kildare in Round 2 of the Qualifiers.
An up and down Allianz League campaign followed this spring – they won three, lost three and drew one of their games – but Hyland says they made a little more progress, and that is key to convincing his players that they are taking the right approach.
"Like anything else, it's a learning curve for us as management as well but I would say probably the biggest thing is you don't keep lads disillusioned," Hyland told GAA.ie. "Keep them on a slight upward step all the time, that they can see progress. That they can see progress within the management and what's been done for them, that they can see progress when they go out and play their games.
"Go back to the national league. We didn't have a brilliant national league but it probably was the best in the last three or four years so that would be a little bit of progress. We only take things as percentages, as small steps at a time.
"We're not looking to suddenly win an Ulster title or an All-Ireland title within a year or two. We're building for the future and that was a conscious decision taken in Cavan in the last few years, that we were going to look at certain age levels and focus on that and try and put in a good strong foundation going forward.
"We have brought in some of the older players who have featured in the last three or four years to build on that and to add physical and mental strength to the squad, and that has worked out quite well for us this year as well."
After last year's dramatic overhaul, Hyland has added seven more new faces to his squad from the U21 team that reached the All-Ireland U21 semi-final and only lost to Cork by a point in a dramatic conclusion to the game.
Cavan have now won three Ulster U21 titles in a row and Hyland says an invaluable winning mentality is among the qualities the new players he has brought into the squad possess.
"They're good footballers, for a start. That's the first thing you have to be when you are playing at inter-county level. They are good natural footballers and they have a good work ethic.
"The most important thing they have is a winning mentality. The whole secret for us is that they don't lose that.
"With the fellas we had in last year, we had four in from last year and we have brought in three on top of that. So seven from that team is in. In fairness, they only featured in two of the national league games and so I suppose you could say we are bringing in seven new lads now."
Inconsistency this spring was one of the inevitable outcomes of putting faith in such an inexperienced squad. Cavan comfortably beat the top two sides in Division III, Monaghan and Meath, results that were particularly hard to fathom when you consider they lost to Antrim in Round 1 and were heavily beaten by Roscommon in the final game of the campaign.
"That's the learning curve for us, and that's where we have to harness probably the young potential we have where we can out and play so well and then sometimes go out and be not as good as we should be. It's up to us to get the balance right.
"That is probably the challenge and the trick for management to do that. We feel within the management of the county that we have some very good quality players coming up if we can harness the talent properly.
"We had very good wins over Monaghan and Meath. Antrim pipped us the first day by two points and Fermanagh by two points. Ok, Roscommon gave us a bit of a hiding on the last day but apart from that we didn't take any big beatings in the league."
Despite that inconsistency and their lack of experience, Hyland says home advantage will count for something on Sunday. Armagh have won seven Ulster titles since Cavan's last success, back in 1997, and have been operating in Division II of the Allianz League this year, but Hyland still sees it as a '50-50' game.
"We played them in the McKenna Cup. Armagh are under new management with Paul and are probably developing their style. In fairness, they improved a lot as they went on in the national league. They had a shaky start but had a very good finish to the league.
"To me, it's a 50:50 game. People will say that's a cliche in the GAA, but I would say that's what it is. They have a great proud history, Armagh, in Ulster football, and in the last 20 years have probably won more titles than anybody else. I would call it a 50:50 game because of the fact that it's in Breffni Park."
With the big hitters – Donegal, Tyrone, Down and Derry – all on the other side of the draw, the winners of Sunday's game have a great chance of making some decent progress in the competition. Hyland believes that part of the appeal of the Ulster Championship is that it is the most competitive of the four provincial championships and it offers his side a chance to take a big scalp against a more established force.
"It is competitive and is probably one of those unique championships where every county within the province believes they can beat each other. And that is why it makes it unique," he adds.
"Look at the other provinces. There are usually some very, very strong teams and then some weak counties. But every county in Ulster, whether it is Cavan, Fermanagh, whoever, we all believe that we can beat Donegal or Tyrone on a given day and that's what makes it unique
It will be interesting to hear what his excuse will be if we are beat on Sunday. He wouldn't want to say it was lack of experience when he hasn't picked the experienced players who in my opinion offer more than those he has picked.
i hope im wrong but i think Armagh will win by at least 5 or 6 points.
I think this year has been an improvement on last year. Tommy Carr set Cavan back a few years, and then Val Andrews almost got Cavan relegated last year. And fell out with far too many players. an example being Alan Clarke, he wasn't even on the panel last year and is captain this year. Cian Mackey was let go by Andrews and is a key player this year too. The league form was steady enough this year, the Fermanagh game was where promotion was lost .
Strange enough selection, but no point giving up before the game is played. Armagh are no world beaters.. granted they have a couple of really good players.
I don't think he has picked the strongest team which is a pity but i will still be there hoping for the win and cheering them on. I think it's time to be winning championship games and not taking moral victories from losing by a few points or a good performance.
No point in bringing Val Andrews into anything he was setup by both Hyland and the county board for a fall last year.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
I don't think he has picked the strongest team which is a pity but i will still be there hoping for the win and cheering them on. I think it's time to be winning championship games and not taking moral victories from losing by a few points or a good performance.
No point in bringing Val Andrews into anything he was setup by both Hyland and the county board for a fall last year.
I don't think you could say he was set up by Hyland. That was the Co Boards mess.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 15, 2013, 04:50:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
I don't think he has picked the strongest team which is a pity but i will still be there hoping for the win and cheering them on. I think it's time to be winning championship games and not taking moral victories from losing by a few points or a good performance.
No point in bringing Val Andrews into anything he was setup by both Hyland and the county board for a fall last year.
I don't think you could say he was set up by Hyland. That was the Co Boards mess.
Whatever you think ,it is not the thread for it but at the start of year Hyland could not commit and then boom he is manager.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 15, 2013, 04:50:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
I don't think he has picked the strongest team which is a pity but i will still be there hoping for the win and cheering them on. I think it's time to be winning championship games and not taking moral victories from losing by a few points or a good performance.
No point in bringing Val Andrews into anything he was setup by both Hyland and the county board for a fall last year.
I don't think you could say he was set up by Hyland. That was the Co Boards mess.
Whatever you think ,it is not the thread for it but at the start of year Hyland could not commit and then boom he is manager.
its not the thread, but may as well clealr it If you have an agenda with Terry Hyland maybe say so, He took the job after the u21's campaign was finished as he was joint manager the year before and said he couldn't give the full commitement for the second year. Andrews was set up by the Co board chairman. that was nothing to do with Hyland.
It's not the thread so i will comment no further on it leave this for the match please.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 04:19:40 PM
It will be interesting to hear what his excuse will be if we are beat on Sunday. He wouldn't want to say it was lack of experience when he hasn't picked the experienced players who in my opinion offer more than those he has picked.
i hope im wrong but i think Armagh will win by at least 5 or 6 points.
Why does he need an excuse?? Maybe we will be beaten by a better team? Whatever Hyland does there will always be morons in Cavan who will use it as a stick to beat him with, if he starts with the experienced lads he's going with players who were already proven not up to scratch, when he goes with the younger lads Martin Reilly and McKeever become All Stars all of a sudden.
f**k sake Tommy I expected better from you! McKeever is supposed to be injured for a start as is Declan McKiernan and Thomas Corr. Secondly, neither you or me knows how well training has been going and who is showing well in the internal challenge games that are being played. We have to assume that Hyland and Forde are picking players to fit their system that are showing well. I don't buy this crap about "favourites", the manager will pick what he thinks are his best players. We also see some changes at throw in so who's to say what team will start. I think only in Cavan to we get such negativity, a quick look at the hoganstand forum and you'd swear the game was over and we were bet.
I also think there is great strength on the bench and this could help us turn a tight game.
Better off staying away from Breffni with that attidude. Squad game nowadays, probably players unlucky to make it, but no doubt they will be called upon if needed. Was thinking McKeever had a knock.
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 07:39:28 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 15, 2013, 04:19:40 PM
It will be interesting to hear what his excuse will be if we are beat on Sunday. He wouldn't want to say it was lack of experience when he hasn't picked the experienced players who in my opinion offer more than those he has picked.
i hope im wrong but i think Armagh will win by at least 5 or 6 points.
Why does he need an excuse?? Maybe we will be beaten by a better team? Whatever Hyland does there will always be morons in Cavan who will use it as a stick to beat him with, if he starts with the experienced lads he's going with players who were already proven not up to scratch, when he goes with the younger lads Martin Reilly and McKeever become All Stars all of a sudden.
Most mangers are asked in post match interview what went wrong, where game was lost etc.
Not a lot of Armagh ones on this thread. There's nearly as many Cavan posters as Mayo on this board! It's good to see Armagh have an attacking look about them and a few fresh faces involved. In previous years we've had too many half forwards who've been defensive minded players. I hope we can get the balance right defensively and aren't too niaive though. I'd be worried how we'd fare against a well organised counter attacking team.
Managers interviewed after games may be asked why they lost the game, that is not the same as an excuse for losing. Also Tommy who are these raft of experienced players that we have on the bench that are so much better than the young lads playing? Bearing in mind that Corr and McKeever are injured.
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
In previous years I may have agreed with Tommy regarding team selection but I think this year what the management have done has to be respected. There seems to be foresight in terms of giving lads proper chances to make an impact. We have some good options on the bench also which may give us a Plan B. Some people are worrying about Jamie Clarke, I think Mc Laughlin is up to the job but if he's not I believe we have Minagh and Killian the Gunner who could do the job.
No matter the result on Sunday I don't envisage a performance like the one we saw against Donegal two years ago. This team appears to be making progress, slowly but surely, and they deserve the backing of everybody on Sunday. Best of luck to all involved.
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Managers interviewed after games may be asked why they lost the game, that is not the same as an excuse for losing. Also Tommy who are these raft of experienced players that we have on the bench that are so much better than the young lads playing? Bearing in mind that Corr and McKeever are injured.
I didn't know Mckeever was injured Westside, is there a link to that anywhere.
Anyone know who is on the bench as i see now you believe Mckeever, Corr and Declan Mckiernan are injured.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 16, 2013, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Managers interviewed after games may be asked why they lost the game, that is not the same as an excuse for losing. Also Tommy who are these raft of experienced players that we have on the bench that are so much better than the young lads playing? Bearing in mind that Corr and McKeever are injured.
I didn't know Mckeever was injured Westside, is there a link to that anywhere.
Anyone know who is on the bench as i see now you believe Mckeever, Corr and Declan Mckiernan are injured.
Why do you not believe Corr is injured? he has been out Injured for the past the past few weeks with a hamstring injury. He wasn't going to be risked if he wasn't fully fit It was mentioned in the Celt that he wasn't 100%. McKiernan and McKeever were not fit enough to start, McKeever could be sprung from the bench. Not every injury needs to be noted in the papers
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 16, 2013, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 16, 2013, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Managers interviewed after games may be asked why they lost the game, that is not the same as an excuse for losing. Also Tommy who are these raft of experienced players that we have on the bench that are so much better than the young lads playing? Bearing in mind that Corr and McKeever are injured.
I didn't know Mckeever was injured Westside, is there a link to that anywhere.
Anyone know who is on the bench as i see now you believe Mckeever, Corr and Declan Mckiernan are injured.
Why do you not believe Corr is injured? he has been out Injured for the past the past few weeks with a hamstring injury. He wasn't going to be risked if he wasn't fully fit It was mentioned in the Celt that he wasn't 100%. McKiernan and McKeever were not fit enough to start, McKeever could be sprung from the bench. Not every injury needs to be noted in the papers
I do believe he is injured sure he has being doubtful for weeks?
He has, you said I see you now believe Corr was injured. Which looked like you thought he wasn't injured.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 16, 2013, 10:27:56 AM
He has, you said I see you now believe Corr was injured. Which looked like you thought he wasn't injured.
No i was responding to westside who was saying that all of corr, mckeever and D Mckiernan are injured.
So i reckon it wont be a strong bench if they are out.
Quote from: Armamike on May 15, 2013, 10:13:15 PM
Not a lot of Armagh ones on this thread. There's nearly as many Cavan posters as Mayo on this board! It's good to see Armagh have an attacking look about them and a few fresh faces involved. In previous years we've had too many half forwards who've been defensive minded players. I hope we can get the balance right defensively and aren't too niaive though. I'd be worried how we'd fare against a well organised counter attacking team.
We can't get a word in with them Mexicans...lol (only messin lads). Yeah i think PG is smart enough to realise that we needed to start over again, he's giving the youth a chance and as you say attack minded players rather that defensive 6'2" half forwards. I think the bookies have this wrong with the odds. No way should Armagh be 4/7 shots away from home, they deserve to be favourites but only just. If i was giving odds it shout be 5/4 Cavan 7/1 Armagh 4/5. I fancy Armagh to win by 1-2 pts as i expect a very tight game but even if we're beat i hope PG sticks to his guns and it will eventually pay off for us...
An bhfuil an cluiche seo ar an Telefis?
Sea
Suas an Cabhán
Suas Ard Mhacha
+1001
Suas Ard Mhacha
-1001
V Good...up our ma too ;)
And may the childer we have up front score lots of goals, as Larry Reilly would do wearing hob-nailed boots and a ball and chain.
I expect we are in for a great game of football on Sunday with plenty of scores. Grimley will stick to his attacking philosophy, no matter what, and fair play to him for giving young O'Hanlon a start. I'd imagine that McKenna and Donaghy will switch and it is imperative that not many goals are conceded. I'll be very disappointed if Armagh don't win this with a few points to spare.
This game could go either way. Armagh's form was indifferent during the league Breffni park is a tough place to get a win. If Jamie Clarke is on form Armagh should win by a few points.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2013, 07:29:38 PM
This game could go either way. Armagh's form was indifferent during the league Breffni park is a tough place to get a win. If Jamie Clarke is on form Armagh should win by a few points.
Not any more. Countless teams have came to Breffni and hammered us in the past few years, especially in the Championship.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKcvsPbCMAAhLF3.jpg)
Gee, Ciaran O'Hanlon looks awfully exposed at CHF. Do you think he'll start there? Who would replace him anyway--T Kernan? How big is O'Hanlon? I hope he has good speed and decent enough size. Sure looks like an attacking format with A. Kernan and Dyas at wing backs. Looks like a high scoring game potentially. Hoping for Armagh 3-13 to Cavan's 1-16. Concerned, though, that with an attacking ethos, our exposed full backs will concede 2 or 3 goals.
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
. When exactly would you expect the present management to start producing? Given that hyland himself has been in or around the senior set up 4/5 years. Lads like Givney McDermott dunne were all u21 in 2010 . Lads like Murray Meehan seem to have been discarded already and they were u21 in 2011. Fergal Flanagan comes back in for his annual first round of the championship game . He was brutal against Donegal last year and was at fault for Corks last 3 points in the u21 semi . And to call him a senior county footballer is complete nonsense. If you look at last years first round team v Donegal and look at this years team v Armagh there not a lot of similarities to show the management know what they are doing. As a poster here said already hyland played a big part in the downfall of Andrews by not opening his mouth regarding team selection and regarding who was dropped from the panel. He set Val up for a fall and jumped in when Val left. He got 4 and a half years and from the way he is shaping up he will leave it no better than when he joined it all those years ago. Yes he worked wonders with the u21s .but so did Peter Reilly this year. That doesn't make them senior managers. Nor does jumping on the sideline like a headless chicken roaring his guts of make forde and better than a selector with a bit of cop. Armagh by 5 and wait for Terry's work in progress press conference.
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 17, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
. When exactly would you As a poster here said already hyland played a big part in the downfall of Andrews by not opening his mouth regarding team selection and regarding who was dropped from the panel. He set Val up for a fall and jumped in when Val left. He got 4 and a half years and from the way he is shaping up he will leave it no better than when he joined it all those years ago. Yes he worked wonders with the u21s .but so did Peter Reilly this year. That doesn't make them senior managers. Nor does jumping on the sideline like a headless chicken roaring his guts of make forde and better than a selector with a bit of cop. Armagh by 5 and wait for Terry's work in progress press conference.
It was me that made a comment about Hyland and then was near lynched people here will believe what they want but they should also respect other posters opinions and views.
This is Hylands first year as Senior management last year did not count as he came into the job so late (that was the deal that was done with Cavan County Board). He has 4 years after this year.
In all fairness to the man, a few things went against the team in the league this year but i must say the most impressive performances where when the few U-21 lads were allowed to play but i think a key problem was the injury to O'Mara as his kickouts were top class and led to midfield being on top. If promotion had of been achieved and GMAC hadn't done his knee in, we would be looking at this saying we will beat Armagh. I'm a bit puzzled about the team selection but all we can do now is get behind them and hope for the best.
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 17, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
. When exactly would you expect the present management to start producing? Given that hyland himself has been in or around the senior set up 4/5 years. Lads like Givney McDermott dunne were all u21 in 2010 . Lads like Murray Meehan seem to have been discarded already and they were u21 in 2011. Fergal Flanagan comes back in for his annual first round of the championship game . He was brutal against Donegal last year and was at fault for Corks last 3 points in the u21 semi . And to call him a senior county footballer is complete nonsense. If you look at last years first round team v Donegal and look at this years team v Armagh there not a lot of similarities to show the management know what they are doing. As a poster here said already hyland played a big part in the downfall of Andrews by not opening his mouth regarding team selection and regarding who was dropped from the panel. He set Val up for a fall and jumped in when Val left. He got 4 and a half years and from the way he is shaping up he will leave it no better than when he joined it all those years ago. Yes he worked wonders with the u21s .but so did Peter Reilly this year. That doesn't make them senior managers. Nor does jumping on the sideline like a headless chicken roaring his guts of make forde and better than a selector with a bit of cop. Armagh by 5 and wait for Terry's work in progress press conference.
You continue to write the obituary before the game has been played. Lets see if you come back on Monday afterwards and say something positive if we win. I have no problem with people being constructive in criticism but the likes of you have nothing to offer and will never be happy.
When the two sides met in the Championship in Breffni in 2008, it was Cavan's first game since Sean Brady was made Cardinal (in late 07). He was introduced to the crowd as "Sean Cardinal!" Would give 100 euros or sterling to see Myles' face if something similar was to happen this Sunday!
Quote from: T Fearon on May 17, 2013, 03:58:36 PM
When the two sides met in the Championship in Breffni in 2008, it was Cavan's first game since Sean Brady was made Cardinal (in late 07). He was introduced to the crowd as "Sean Cardinal!" Would give 100 euros or sterling to see Myles' face if something similar was to happen this Sunday!
I was there Tony and I wasnt impressed either. No place for that sort of thing in the GAA, it is non denominational.
Surely when a native of the County achieves high office or the top office in the land, either clerical (regardless of denomination) or layman, and and ex player as well, the achievement deserves some recognition, or at the very least, there is no harm in fellow gaels according him or her some recognition.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 17, 2013, 04:23:48 PM
Surely when a native of the County achieves high office or the top office in the land, either clerical (regardless of denomination) or layman, and and ex player as well, the achievement deserves some recognition, or at the very least, there is no harm in fellow gaels according him or her some recognition.
Perhaps but he wasn't just introduced to the crowd, the two teams lined up and he met each player like the president does at a rugby international. I have never seen it before or since at a GAA match and personally I think it was totally inappropriate. Anyway, this is for football - there is another section for that stuff.
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 17, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
. When exactly would you expect the present management to start producing? Given that hyland himself has been in or around the senior set up 4/5 years. Lads like Givney McDermott dunne were all u21 in 2010 . Lads like Murray Meehan seem to have been discarded already and they were u21 in 2011. Fergal Flanagan comes back in for his annual first round of the championship game . He was brutal against Donegal last year and was at fault for Corks last 3 points in the u21 semi . And to call him a senior county footballer is complete nonsense. If you look at last years first round team v Donegal and look at this years team v Armagh there not a lot of similarities to show the management know what they are doing. As a poster here said already hyland played a big part in the downfall of Andrews by not opening his mouth regarding team selection and regarding who was dropped from the panel. He set Val up for a fall and jumped in when Val left. He got 4 and a half years and from the way he is shaping up he will leave it no better than when he joined it all those years ago. Yes he worked wonders with the u21s .but so did Peter Reilly this year. That doesn't make them senior managers. Nor does jumping on the sideline like a headless chicken roaring his guts of make forde and better than a selector with a bit of cop. Armagh by 5 and wait for Terry's work in progress press conference.
So you decided to join the, what was it you called us.. "lick arses" over here on GAABoard?
Saying that Terry set Val up for a fall is bordering on conspiracy theorist type idiocy. If Val picks a terrible team, then that is Val's issue, he is not a simpleton that Terry was there to look after. And you have absolutely no idea what was going on between them behind the scenes. Maybe there was war between them over team selections, maybe not. But at the end of the day Val had the final say and the buck stops with him, as he said himself many times. Terry Hyland was always going to take over this Cavan team, the CB knew it, we knew it, Val knew it, and Terry knew it. He had no reason to "set him up for a fall" You think Hyland, a man who has given more to Cavan than any manager in the past decade, would be happy to see us fail miserably so he would improve his already massive claim to the managers position? You think he was satisfied to see Antrim come to Breffni and hammer us out the gate? Maybe you're a pathetic man with no integrity but Terry Hyland is not.
Now Hyland is the main man, and the buck will stop with him. And he is well entitled to call this what it is, a long term project that requires work and patience. Now you and the rest of the "experts" in the stand might not like that, but it's the truth. In short, there are a lot of morons in Cavan - including yourself - who want a quick fix that does not exist. You wanted it before 2011 when you said we had the players we just needed the right manager (which was bull), now we have a few decent underage teams (not exceptional) and that ramps up the impatience. Suddenly 2 years after we won our first U21 Ulster title and we should be making huge strides despite the depressingly low ebb we were at in 2010 and that we have almost no quality older Senior Intercounty Players in the county to build these lads around? There has been progress under Hyland this year, small progress but progress. For the last 4 years it has been a downward slope but that has stopped. This is not like turning a Micra in a driveway it's like turning a 747. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. (You)
Also, can you honestly tell me that the U21s in 2010 were that good that we should be making senior progress on the back of that? They won a grand total of TWO games. Do you think anyone remembers who was in the Leinster U21 Final in 2010? Do you think the losing county have raised expectations because their players appeared in an underage final that year?
And yes I do see some similarities between the team that played v Donegal last year and the team v Armagh this Sunday. 8 players are starting again, 2 more would have if Gearoid and McKeever weren't injured, 2 lads are no longer involved, both emmigrated. 5 Subs came on, 4 of whom are still involved. So from the 20 that day 17 are still on the panel either starting, on the bench or injured.
Now for the good of the board and for the genuine supporters on it, please crawl back under your rock, we'll probably be seeing you Sunday evening where you can brand Hyland as the sole cause for anything that might have went wrong. If we manage to pull off a result I hope you won't be too upset.
H'on Cavan!
I'd agree with nearly everything Westside has to say and it's borne out by Paul Fitz's recent article in the Celt where he pointed out that the last seven years have been our worst in senior championship history and we cant expect a few good years at under 21 level to turn things around straight away. Delighted and all as we should be with the Under 21 progress maybe we should not be getting too carried away with it either. We have allowed our under 21 panels much more space than other counties in the last few years in segregating them from senior panels and this is part of the success formula I think. Maybe our success has been based on panels of 25 who work for each other rather than a couple of really outstanding players.
Having said all that I hope to jasus this "long term project" line is not affecting the heads of any players on the panel. We are up against a relatively young Armagh team in Breffni park and there is every reason we can give them a bloody good game and beat them if players believe we can beat them. Win on Sunday and its a huge boost and the prospect of a few more days out.
Gowan da blues
Westside in all fairness the man is entitled to his opinion and to tell him to crawl back under his rock is unfair.
Quote from: tommysmith on May 17, 2013, 06:36:26 PM
Westside in all fairness the man is entitled to his opinion and to tell him to crawl back under his rock is unfair.
Casting aspersions on the character of a good man, singling out a 21 year old and calling his inclusion on a County Senior panel as "laughable" Is low. "Supporters" like him disgust me. I stand by what I said.
Quote from: Westside on May 17, 2013, 06:47:29 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 17, 2013, 06:36:26 PM
Westside in all fairness the man is entitled to his opinion and to tell him to crawl back under his rock is unfair.
Casting aspersions on the character of a good man, singling out a 21 year old and calling his inclusion on a County Senior panel as "laughable" Is low. "Supporters" like him disgust me. I stand by what I said.
I don't think he did say that?
Is Dirtbag Tommy's alter ego??? :-\
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 17, 2013, 07:37:48 PM
Is Dirtbag Tommy's alter ego??? :-\
(http://global3.memecdn.com/Why-wont-they-stop-f**king-following-me_c_94651.jpg)
Do any of you Cavan ones know there is a match on Sunday!
Can see it going either way. If Lavery and Harold can get possession in midfield Armagh should have a good chance.
Quote from: Westside on May 17, 2013, 06:12:01 PM
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 17, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 15, 2013, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 15, 2013, 10:27:46 PM
Well I have faith in Terry Hyland to put the right team on the pitch and have them motivated. His record is unmatched in Cavan as a manager. I have no problem giving him time to get this team right. I am looking for a good solid performance and I am hoping we sneak a win. I will not be throwing the toys out of the pram if we lose, Armagh are still a little ahead of us.
Nail on the head there Myles lad. Patience is needed. A time will come where we will have to say "it's time to deliver". That time is bit away yet.
. When exactly would you expect the present management to start producing? Given that hyland himself has been in or around the senior set up 4/5 years. Lads like Givney McDermott dunne were all u21 in 2010 . Lads like Murray Meehan seem to have been discarded already and they were u21 in 2011. Fergal Flanagan comes back in for his annual first round of the championship game . He was brutal against Donegal last year and was at fault for Corks last 3 points in the u21 semi . And to call him a senior county footballer is complete nonsense. If you look at last years first round team v Donegal and look at this years team v Armagh there not a lot of similarities to show the management know what they are doing. As a poster here said already hyland played a big part in the downfall of Andrews by not opening his mouth regarding team selection and regarding who was dropped from the panel. He set Val up for a fall and jumped in when Val left. He got 4 and a half years and from the way he is shaping up he will leave it no better than when he joined it all those years ago. Yes he worked wonders with the u21s .but so did Peter Reilly this year. That doesn't make them senior managers. Nor does jumping on the sideline like a headless chicken roaring his guts of make forde and better than a selector with a bit of cop. Armagh by 5 and wait for Terry's work in progress press conference.
So you decided to join the, what was it you called us.. "lick arses" over here on GAABoard?
Saying that Terry set Val up for a fall is bordering on conspiracy theorist type idiocy. If Val picks a terrible team, then that is Val's issue, he is not a simpleton that Terry was there to look after. And you have absolutely no idea what was going on between them behind the scenes. Maybe there was war between them over team selections, maybe not. But at the end of the day Val had the final say and the buck stops with him, as he said himself many times. Terry Hyland was always going to take over this Cavan team, the CB knew it, we knew it, Val knew it, and Terry knew it. He had no reason to "set him up for a fall" You think Hyland, a man who has given more to Cavan than any manager in the past decade, would be happy to see us fail miserably so he would improve his already massive claim to the managers position? You think he was satisfied to see Antrim come to Breffni and hammer us out the gate? Maybe you're a pathetic man with no integrity but Terry Hyland is not.
Now Hyland is the main man, and the buck will stop with him. And he is well entitled to call this what it is, a long term project that requires work and patience. Now you and the rest of the "experts" in the stand might not like that, but it's the truth. In short, there are a lot of morons in Cavan - including yourself - who want a quick fix that does not exist. You wanted it before 2011 when you said we had the players we just needed the right manager (which was bull), now we have a few decent underage teams (not exceptional) and that ramps up the impatience. Suddenly 2 years after we won our first U21 Ulster title and we should be making huge strides despite the depressingly low ebb we were at in 2010 and that we have almost no quality older Senior Intercounty Players in the county to build these lads around? There has been progress under Hyland this year, small progress but progress. For the last 4 years it has been a downward slope but that has stopped. This is not like turning a Micra in a driveway it's like turning a 747. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. (You)
Also, can you honestly tell me that the U21s in 2010 were that good that we should be making senior progress on the back of that? They won a grand total of TWO games. Do you think anyone remembers who was in the Leinster U21 Final in 2010? Do you think the losing county have raised expectations because their players appeared in an underage final that year?
And yes I do see some similarities between the team that played v Donegal last year and the team v Armagh this Sunday. 8 players are starting again, 2 more would have if Gearoid and McKeever weren't injured, 2 lads are no longer involved, both emmigrated. 5 Subs came on, 4 of whom are still involved. So from the 20 that day 17 are still on the panel either starting, on the bench or injured.
Now for the good of the board and for the genuine supporters on it, please crawl back under your rock, we'll probably be seeing you Sunday evening where you can brand Hyland as the sole cause for anything that might have went wrong. If we manage to pull off a result I hope you won't be too upset.
H'on Cavan!
. I write something you don't like u get upset and I have to crawl back under a rock? Some discussion board this. Agree with the chosen few is the way it seems to be. Let me tell you hyland set Val up for a big fall by publicly not backing his calls when he was joint manager .thats fact. He let Val make mistakes knowing it would land him the hot seat. Now Hyland has to deliver . Now hyland has to show improvement in his own tactical knowledge to prove regardless of results he is capable . He hasn't done that yet. Our underage structured is better than most. Lads that are pushing the 23/24 mark should be reaching their peak. It's time to start performing. Yes this year,
(http://img.rasset.ie/00013d0c-642.jpg)
Let nobody be under any illusion that Armagh are facing into a very difficult challenge tomorrow. Our recent championship record, the Down match in 2011 apart, makes sorry reading so any suggestion that, even if we were at full strength, we would be dismissing Cavan is a bit fanciful. Add in the fact that we are away from home and missing our most natural defender (Morgan), possibly also one of key defenders in recent years (Donaghy) and definitely what has been arguably our most established midfield partnership (Toner and Vernon) and its very difficult to predict what might happen tomorrow. The positive for Armagh of course is that, unlike the vast majority of our matches in recent years, we have what I believe to be our key trio of Kernan, McKeever and Jamie Clarke in place. I still think we'll just about squeeze home but with the teams priced at 4/7 and 15/8, there's little doubt in my mind that Cavan represent the better bet.
Dirtball - why don't you write another letter into the celt, the last one was fascinating. It should keep you busy for a few days and the rest of us will head to Breffni.
Good luck to Cavan seniors and minors tomorrow. If we can play to the best of our ability we can win.
Good interview with Jamie Clarke in todays indo - hopefully Cavan can keep him quiet tomorrow , http://t.co/KBokLOP0xT
If this game was on in today's weather, I'd fancy Cavan to win it. It ain't gonna be pretty, 15 men in blue behind the ball, short passing, rugby league stuff. Armagh's superior attack should have enough to come out on top if the weather conditions allow it.
QuoteGood interview with Jamie Clarke in todays indo - hopefully Cavan can keep him quiet tomorrow , http://t.co/KBokLOP0xT
The other Armagh forwards need to step into the breach, be available for a pass etc, if Cavan double mark Jamie. Cross' have often scored well without Jamie getting many directly himself, because the other forwards made hay when the defence was occupied with Jamie.
I'd be hopeful that they can.
QuoteIf this game was on in today's weather, I'd fancy Cavan to win it.
Sunday: Fog clearing to give a mild, mostly dry day tomorrow with sunny spells.
Highest temperatures generally 15 to 17 degrees away from the east and south coast where onshore breezes will keep values at 11 to 13 degrees
So a decent day for the game.
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
Was the last manager from cavan gaels? He wasn't very good.
Up cavan tomorrow.
Quote from: seafoid on May 18, 2013, 04:11:35 PM
Was the last manager from cavan gaels? He wasn't very good.
Up cavan tomorrow.
Val Andrews is a Dub, Ballymun.
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 18, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
To be fair, it's hard to believe that there are two morons of this magnitude both from a small county like Cavan. Possible though I guess.
I do like your "we're going to be hammered-put the farm on Armagh-if I convince myself we're going to lose I can't get hurt if it happens" attitude. The self preservation instinct is a marvel.
Shite weather today, hope it doesn't leave Breffni too greasy and slippy tomorrow...
Can't wait - still don't know what way to call both games
Rain will be gone about 4am, not much wind bit hopefully sun will come out and dry it up. I predict ideal conditions and 2 wins for Cavan :)
Pauric Reilly was playing last night against Lacken, he mustn't be on the 26 man panel for tomorrow.
Armagh by 4
I feel it in my bones
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
Pauric Reilly was playing last night against Lacken, he mustn't be on the 26 man panel for tomorrow.
Shame to hear that he's no on the panel as he has good experience but I have to say he probably wouldn't be on my first 15 due to his lack of pace on a fast summer pitch
Actually think Armagh will make the ulster final this yr coming through the easier side of the draw though monaghan could cause them problems, On paper after winning 4 -21 ulster titles Cavan should be emerging as a team to beat in ulster, we should be see progress of this now, it hasnt happened. Would a high profile manager take Cavan forward to where they should be in the next few years, they should be placed for a shout at an ulster title on the weak side of the draw but playing division 3 football badly counts against them.
Donaghy out, F Mo in. Strange seeing a social media released statement to confirm night before a match. Changed times in the format of the message & in not lying like f**k to cover things up.
Are these type of announcements normal in Armagh. Wouldn't they be better off saying nothing or is this some sort of double bluff?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 18, 2013, 06:52:11 PM
Actually think Armagh will make the ulster final this yr coming through the easier side of the draw though monaghan could cause them problems, On paper after winning 4 -21 ulster titles Cavan should be emerging as a team to beat in ulster, we should be see progress of this now, it hasnt happened. Would a high profile manager take Cavan forward to where they should be in the next few years, they should be placed for a shout at an ulster title on the weak side of the draw but playing division 3 football badly counts against them.
Cavan have 3 Ulster titles recently not 4. The first of those was won just a little over 2 years ago. Are you really saying that a group of 23 year olds who were about the 3rd best team in Ireland when they won that Ulster title should be emerging to dominate Ulster at Senior Level 2 years later?
And what do you think a "high profile" manager will do that Hyland will not?
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2013, 06:34:50 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
Pauric Reilly was playing last night against Lacken, he mustn't be on the 26 man panel for tomorrow.
Shame to hear that he's no on the panel as he has good experience but I have to say he probably wouldn't be on my first 15 due to his lack of pace on a fast summer pitch
His pace was always holding him back alright i'D agree
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2013, 06:34:50 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
Pauric Reilly was playing last night against Lacken, he mustn't be on the 26 man panel for tomorrow.
Shame to hear that he's no on the panel as he has good experience but I have to say he probably wouldn't be on my first 15 due to his lack of pace on a fast summer pitch
His pace was always holding him back alright i'D agree
Wee Marty was commenting on the radio on Friday on Cavan's need to find a settled team. He made the point that last years captain (Podge) is not in the 26 this year while this years captain wasn't in the 26 last year. He also made the point that I find hard to disagree with that the under 21 success that we have had may be due to a whole pile of really hard working lads who will all make great club players, whether there are enough to turn into really top class inter county players is another matter. Still if the likes of Barry and Martin Reilly are fit and not starting you would be confident we are fairly well fixed for replacements up the pitch at any rate.
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2013, 06:34:50 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
Pauric Reilly was playing last night against Lacken, he mustn't be on the 26 man panel for tomorrow.
Shame to hear that he's no on the panel as he has good experience but I have to say he probably wouldn't be on my first 15 due to his lack of pace on a fast summer pitch
His pace was always holding him back alright i'D agree
Wee Marty was commenting on the radio on Friday on Cavan's need to find a settled team. He made the point that last years captain (Podge) is not in the 26 this year while this years captain wasn't in the 26 last year. He also made the point that I find hard to disagree with that the under 21 success that we have had may be due to a whole pile of really hard working lads who will all make great club players, whether there are enough to turn into really top class inter county players is another matter. Still if the likes of Barry and Martin Reilly are fit and not starting you would be confident we are fairly well fixed for replacements up the pitch at any rate.
He is probably right, there was nothing outstanding about this year u21 team. Hard working team with a never say die attidude. Didn't think they were any better than the previous U21 teams. The 2010 team, while they only won TWO games, have produced a good number of players to the Senior team, David Givney,James McEnroe,
Rory Dunne, (Eugene Keating would have been part of that squad but missed out through injury).. Oisin Moyaagh would have been starting then too and Barry Reilly, Niall McDermott. Gearoid McKiernan too. Martin Dunne had been on that panel too, but left after the Hastings Cup due to lack of game time. Other squad players too like Decland McKiernan , Josh Hayes were part of the team/panel that got to the Ulster Final
Michael Murphy was the difference in that final.
I think this years team had some serious class players. Mcvitty, Gerard Smith, McLoughlin, Killian Clarke, Moynagh and Jack Brady will all be top class senior players. Few others like O Connor, Madden and Argue possibly too could also come through. That was our best team of the last 4 I think. Martin likes to talk crap about Cavan, he should remember a team of workhorses won his county an all Ireland last year.
Better gauge of those players on next years u21 team. Smith Mcvitty are very good players, but still light.
Paul O Connor might make it or might not, some players are good u21's and that its. Finbar Jordan was a brilliant under age player and and never got a look at Senior level. So too Enda Gaffney
Jack should be a very good player with the seniors and hopefully McGlaughlin too, Clarke
Anyone know what odds are being offered for Jamie Clarke to get 3 goals?
Not sure but Armagh to score more than 2 goals is 7/1
Clarke first goal 9/2
I suspect b donaghy wasn't fit enough for 70 mins and just couldn't be risked. finn mo gives terrible amount of frees a away and thats a worry. you will see b donaghy on for last 20 mins if armagh r in trouble.
armagh 3-13 cavan 3-11...it'll prob end up 0-12 - 0-11...lol
This is going to be a high scoring game. I will have a go at predicting 2-14 to 1-13
Expect Cavan to be very defensive today lads. Can't see them scoring more than a total of 14/15 points max. The big test is if they can keep Armagh to less than that.
Quote from: Westside on May 19, 2013, 09:36:57 AM
Expect Cavan to be very defensive today lads. Can't see them scoring more than a total of 14/15 points max. The big test is if they can keep Armagh to less than that.
Correct - Cavan will have a swarm of men behind the ball and while it might not be pretty, I couldn't care less...
When is the last time we won in Ulster? Fermanagh in 09?
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2013, 11:14:02 PM
Better gauge of those players on next years u21 team. Smith Mcvitty are very good players, but still light.
Paul O Connor might make it or might not, some players are good u21's and that its. Finbar Jordan was a brilliant under age player and and never got a look at Senior level. So too Enda Gaffney
Jack should be a very good player with the seniors and hopefully McGlaughlin too, Clarke
Rumors are that Finbar Jordans footballing career has ended after a fall off a ladder. Probably too small for county senior, and most likely wouldn't have ever made it anyway, but he was a brilliant minor and u-21.
http://www.firstrow1.eu/sport/others.html
For any men that need a link
Quote from: supersub on May 19, 2013, 12:05:08 AM
Not sure but Armagh to score more than 2 goals is 7/1
Clarke first goal 9/2
Cheers lad
Thats a fairly young Cavan team, dont know half them
Very poor standard so far.
Should have been at least one red card there.
Cavan No 8 should count his blessings!
Jamie needs to calm down a little
He could have walked that into the net.
Armagh do not have a defence.
Cavan the better team but make some strange decision, Keating should be playing in at full forward he winning everything
christ not another keeper taking 45`s
"The build of a sprinter" class !!!
mcconville is an excellent co commentator. very informative
Quote from: our_fella on May 19, 2013, 12:50:38 PM
http://www.firstrow1.eu/sport/others.html
For any men that need a link
Canvas v Armagh
http://www.firstrow1.eu/watch/187552/1/watch-gaa-football-:-canvas-vs-armagh.html
Who scored the goal?
couldnt listen to BBC watching it on rte instead
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2013, 02:32:19 PM
Who scored the goal?
Mackey. This game is by-passing O'Hanlon.
Don't know if I can watch this anymore, whatever Armagh are playing it isn't football.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 19, 2013, 02:33:45 PM
This game is by-passing O'Hanlon.
Cavan are playing the sweeper to perfection, you can't single out one player, the game is by-passing the entire Armagh team, especially the management.
Worst Armagh 35 mins in a long long time. Cavan could win this despite themselves!
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 19, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 19, 2013, 02:33:45 PM
This game is by-passing O'Hanlon.
Cavan are playing the sweeper to perfection, you can't single out one player, the game is by-passing the entire Armagh team, especially the management.
I mean it was a high risk that this could happen starting an 18 year old. No means slating the lad.
4 points in 35 minutes.
This is an utter disgrace. Management don't appear to have a clue. Naive to say the least. I've watched this crap all year so far and it's the same pathetic result each time. Grimley has neither the vision nor intellect to manage a county team.
Reality is, if cavan werent doing so much messing about, and unsure of themsleves they be 10pts clear
Armagh are awfully disorganised. They have the look of a team that don't know how they're supposed to do when they get the ball. I'd have expected Grimley to have them better prepared. The enormous space in front of Keating and Dunne is a huge advantage to Cavan who themselves are putting in a very spirited if a little nervous display. Cavan by far the better team in the opening half and if they can keep their composure should win.
Now I know why I rarely watch football. How many times will Armagh pump the ball into a saturated full forward line before they realise it isnt working?!
In other news Mulligan is in serious need of a short back and sides.
Cavan playing some very smart football. They're creating a lot of space for their full forward line to do the damage.
Great to see Cavan playing well. I hope they can keep it up.
I hope stew is still asleep.
Grimley is so clueless he has nothing to say to the failing team at half time???? Joker
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 19, 2013, 02:45:58 PM
Now I know why I rarely watch football. How many times will Armagh pump the ball into a saturated full forward line before they realise it isnt working?!
In other news Mulligan is in serious need of a short back and sides.
To be trendy that should be a short, back and sandpaper!!!!!
that keeper fair and strong under a high ball
Grimley makes POR look like a football mastermind.
Deegan has been poor, but that is a shocking decision.
Hopefully that decision motivates Armagh
poor call alright, should let it go, but u could hear the whistle and the cavan lads seemed to stop
That was a howler of a mistake by the ref, not to let that goal stand. A blatant endorsement of cynical play.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 19, 2013, 03:08:29 PM
poor call alright, should let it go, but u could hear the whistle and the cavan lads seemed to stop
Not the ones who could have done anything.
Sludden come back, all is forgiven.
Keating a greedy bollix, that been the game there
Carved open again. Fair play the keeper.
Cavan 15 will get some stick if they end up losing this. Messed up a certain goal.
keating miss coming back to haunt them now with that Armagh goal
Cavan full back at fault. Simple pick up missed.
1 point in it.
Important point. Donaghy not doing enough.
Goal nearly wiped out.
Armagh have f**k all left, game over.
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Thats a hell of a cavan fullforward, hes seems so light looking on tv, best player on the field by a mile
1.12 cavan to 1.09 ormaugh
Dunne kicking some great points.
Dunne is a class act. Did the same to us in McKenna cup
Armagh's goal flatters them.
Armagh officially now the toilet brush of Ulster football??
Nice message to Seanie as well.
How the hell i not hear of Dunne before filling out my fantasy football team, damn
I know its very trendy right now, but I really didn't need Armagh football to return to the 80s
Nobody will lose any sleep at the prospect of meeting Armagh through the back door.
Awful performance by Armagh team and management. And I need not say anything about the embarrassment Deegan brought upon himself. Absolutely disgusted all round.
Quote from: Family guy on May 19, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Ah shut up. The boo boys always crawl out when a team loses. Clarke did as much as he could with two to three men marking him at all times. No support, same as last year.
I knew Armagh were bad - but that bad?
Congrats to Cavan - showed much more for the ball and could have/should have won by more.
Also, our last 2 c'ship defeats have come at the hands of Roscommon and Cavan. Jesus wept
Quote from: Syferus on May 19, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: Family guy on May 19, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Ah shut up. The boo boys always crawl out when a team loses. Clarke did as much as he could with two to three men marking him at all times. No support, same as last year.
Cop on. Management let him down. Not about boo boys you muppet it's about passion for the Armagh cause and that was awful leadership.
Quote from: machaman on May 19, 2013, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 19, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: Family guy on May 19, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Ah shut up. The boo boys always crawl out when a team loses. Clarke did as much as he could with two to three men marking him at all times. No support, same as last year.
Cop on. Management let him down. Not about boo boys you muppet it's about passion for the Armagh cause and that was awful leadership.
Did you even read the post I was responding to?
Congratulations to Cavan, they played well and they deserve to be credited with that regardless of what happened with Armagh.
Quote from: Syferus on May 19, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: Family guy on May 19, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Ah shut up. The boo boys always crawl out when a team loses. Clarke did as much as he could with two to three men marking him at all times. No support, same as last year.
Well said Syferus.
I've been a big supporter of Grimley but not adapting to Cavan's set up is unforgivable. The defence were hung out to dry. Brendy Donaghy clearly not fit, lavery is as mobile as a one legged elephant, some awful wides too, but what really annoyed me was the severe lack of tackling.
Fair play to Cavan though, they played well and i wish them all the best in the Ulster championship this year.
To say i am gutted is an understatement.............
Fair play to Martin McHugh who said it as it was. Deegan had a nightmare. Cavan deserved the win but referees are generally inept and that is contributing to general negativity
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 18, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
What a tool!!!! Up Cavan
Quote from: Syferus on May 19, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
Quote from: machaman on May 19, 2013, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 19, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: Family guy on May 19, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
Clarke will be on a flight away this week,doesn't wana be there at all
Ah shut up. The boo boys always crawl out when a team loses. Clarke did as much as he could with two to three men marking him at all times. No support, same as last year.
Cop on. Management let him down. Not about boo boys you muppet it's about passion for the Armagh cause and that was awful leadership.
Did you even read the post I was responding to?
Did you read mine?? Muppet. Be realistic and accept that it was managements fault. I agree Clarke had no chance. Ask yourself why and stop attacking people who speak their mind.
He was replying to the comment that Jamie Clarke didn't want to be there. Which is daft. I thought he tried hard in an impossible tour of duty.
Nothing to do with the ref, macha. Horrible defensive strategy, especially with those personnel, and Cavan took advantage with much crisper play. Just dismal.
First team out in the "weaker" side of the Ulster draw. Great stuff.
Expected a lot more out of Armagh. They have great young talent on that panel and one of the best forwards in Ireland
The defence was hung out to dry with those tactics. Every one of them roasted.
Brolly was right - Bat signal for the McEntees.
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 18, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
Have to say reading the above now is hilarious.
So is Paul Grimley as tactically poor as that performance suggests? All of the talk over the years suggested that he was the force behind the Monaghan resurgence under McEneaney, he was the tactical driving force behind Joe Kernan during the early 00's .... something that appears to have little foundation after that debacle today.
Should have just put Cross out in orange jerseys. Better management, better tactically, and would play more as a team.
Quote from: balladmaker on May 19, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
So is Paul Grimley as tactically poor as that performance suggests? All of the talk over the years suggested that he was the force behind the Monaghan resurgence under McEneaney, he was the tactical driving force behind Joe Kernan during the early 00's .... something that appears to have little foundation after that debacle today.
I'm afraid that this was a nonsense that was bandied about a lot. Amazing how no one but Grimley deserved any credit. Kernan, mceneany, geezer Etc. look at his record as a manager.... McKenna cup, league and championship. He has no nous. I have never called for the head of an Armagh manger before but I feel this is too important to let go. We have minors and other players who need taught, leadership and a style of play that is neither naive nor headless chicken-ism.
Fermanagh will need a bear trap for that Keating fella
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 19, 2013, 03:55:57 PM
Nothing to do with the ref, macha. Horrible defensive strategy, especially with those personnel, and Cavan took advantage with much crisper play. Just dismal.
I agree. As per my post
What was the free for that cancelled out Clarke's goal? At last we got some luck. Well done lads.
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 19, 2013, 04:30:27 PM
What was the free for that cancelled out Clarke's goal?
Clarke was pulled back just before he shot, common sense would have allowed him to play on.
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2013, 02:53:45 PM
I hope stew is still asleep.
Stew was wide awake as is now f**king depressed enough to beat the band.
I am simply wiped out after that, for fucks sake, players at this level should know how to defend and by the way, when one man has three defenders around him you might want to pass the fecking thing to someone other than Clarke.
I have always been a fan of big Paul's but he shit the bed the day from a tactical perspective.
This is the worst i have felt since we didnt have enough players to field 30 odd years ago and right now the Suggestion to simply play the Cross men in orange uniforms sounds good to me, Cross would have beaten us by ten points today.
Fcuk it, at 12:01 I am going to start quaffing pints and drown my sorrows, I am absolutely sickened by everything about this game and the ramifications and implications of it.
It could be worst, you could be Galway
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 19, 2013, 04:37:35 PM
It could be worst, you could be Galway
It could not be worse, rock bottom baby!
I hope the twins are ready to give the job a rattle, the McEntee's that is.
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 19, 2013, 04:37:35 PM
It could be worst, you could be Galway
It could not be worse, rock bottom baby!
I hope the twins are ready to give the job a rattle, the McEntee's that is.
I think the twin Fields from Banbrook would have done better ;)
That has to be the worst performance by an Armagh team ever in my experience.....absolutely no physicality, a forward scores 9 points and the back isn't changed...and no harm to the Cavan lad but he's no Gooch or O'Neill!
Well done Cavan and enjoy. As for Armagh....I just don't know.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 19, 2013, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 19, 2013, 04:30:27 PM
What was the free for that cancelled out Clarke's goal?
Clarke was pulled back just before he shot, common sense would have allowed him to play on.
nine or ten steps before the bounce. Thought he blew for a free out initially.
Armagh were woeful. Some of the defenders are faster on twitter !
Complete and utter shambles!!
Blame has to lie with Grimley. Made the O'Rourke years look like a golden era.
Why the hell were we playing with 7 fowards when the backline was so exposed???? taking off finn mo for rafferty made no sense what so ever. It led to the first goal as we had no chb allowing the Cavan man run straight through.
All the tinkering ongoing in the game never let the players settle. I got the sense players weren't sure what position they should be in. Caolan Rafferty and especially Tony Kernan got passed about between attack and defense.
Throughly annoyed right now.
Well you`s couldnt wait to get rid of O`Rourke. I said earlier through the league the players arent there, take jamie Clarke away, who do you expect to score regularly for u? when Armagh were strong they have McConville, Marsden, McDonnell, Clarke, they had options if one player was held there were others there to take up the scoring burden. Its time to face reality, Armagh nearly ended up in division 3. People said then they were too good for that. Well they were well beaten by a division 3 team the day!!
Delighted with the two wins. And delighted for the Armagh supporters. The most disgusting group of supporters that I have ever attended a game with. The element that I ended up sitting with at any rate.
Quote from: balladmaker on May 19, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
So is Paul Grimley as tactically poor as that performance suggests? All of the talk over the years suggested that he was the force behind the Monaghan resurgence under McEneaney, he was the tactical driving force behind Joe Kernan during the early 00's .... something that appears to have little foundation after that debacle today.
100% plus 1,
Very poor from Armagh today and Grimleys post match interview highlights exactly why we were so poor. Stupid thing for him to say
Missed the interview, David, what did he say to explain away that debacle?
That was thoroughly depressing, Grimley got it horribly wrong & hadn't a clue how deal with Cavan. His team, his tactics, his fault.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on May 19, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
That was thoroughly depressing, Grimley got it horribly wrong & hadn't a clue how deal with Cavan. His team, his tactics, his fault.
Hope you're feeling better today.
It's a 24 hour thing apparently.
Quote from: Gaffer on May 19, 2013, 04:01:52 PM
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 18, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
Have to say reading the above now is hilarious.
At least he put himself out there, sometimes you are right and then there is well.................predictions and adv ice like that.
Quote from: Westside on May 19, 2013, 06:02:52 PM
Delighted with the two wins. And delighted for the Armagh supporters. The most disgusting group of supporters that I have ever attended a game with. The element that I ended up sitting with at any rate.
You are going to get that, our fans are usually dead on but you are always going to get a few slabbers here and there with any set of supporters, we have our good one's as well.
Cavan deserved to win, we were awful and I hope they go on to win Ulster now, they have been great in the past and I think it would do Gaelic football the power of good if Cavan could grow from this and win the Ulster.
Quote from: Count 10 on May 19, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: stew on May 19, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 19, 2013, 04:37:35 PM
It could be worst, you could be Galway
It could not be worse, rock bottom baby!
I hope the twins are ready to give the job a rattle, the McEntee's that is.
I think the twin Fields from Banbrook would have done better ;)
That has to be the worst performance by an Armagh team ever in my experience.....absolutely no physicality, a forward scores 9 points and the back isn't changed...and no harm to the Cavan lad but he's no Gooch or O'Neill!
Well done Cavan and enjoy. As for Armagh....I just don't know.
as poor a perforamnce since the derry game in the 90s under mc corry and morrison
ffs i throw good money into armagh to listen to crap from grimley" i knew we needed a sweeper but i wasnt going to compromise my principles"
nver heard as much tosh in my life
mc kenna and mc keown were getting roasted common sense says help them play someone in front.
wtf are peter mc donnell, hughes and mc quillan doing with this team if this is the mantra
every gaa man i met today in the office has laughed at our managers naivety
I feel sorry for grimley. He has been a good servant to Armagh, Monaghan. Meath, Cavan and others. I just think his ideas are so 2002. After this year The scene is set for the return of the mc. Step forward k mc geeney and teach these cubs how to defend. I dont think they will win any more this year however we must remember that there will be a big boost when Jamie Clarke gets back from his holidays.
Quote from: stew on May 20, 2013, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 19, 2013, 06:02:52 PM
Delighted with the two wins. And delighted for the Armagh supporters. The most disgusting group of supporters that I have ever attended a game with. The element that I ended up sitting with at any rate.
You are going to get that, our fans are usually dead on but you are always going to get a few slabbers here and there with any set of supporters, we have our good one's as well.
Cavan deserved to win, we were awful and I hope they go on to win Ulster now, they have been great in the past and I think it would do Gaelic football the power of good if Cavan could grow from this and win the Ulster.
How would an Armagh man today know what's good for Gaelic football?
What did Grimley say after the match?
From the papers today it sounds like he had decided back some time ago to try to combat teams who play a sweeper by letting his man follow the forward (sweeper) back into his own defence. This "pushing up" tactic was a bold decision I suppose as its like we now have an extra player in the scoring zone, however he got burnt and learnt that even if you don't like it, its near impossible to combat this style game unless you play the same tactic yourself. Donegal have won an AI playing this way.
The other side of this is of course we only have 5 defenders v 5 attackers but there is much more space for their forwards.
How to Crossmaglen normally deal with the other team playing a sweeper?
Do they let the guy just go back and keep the spare man in his own defence then?
It sounds like he was just pig headed stubborn and not at least changing McKenna off Dunne. I wonder what players like McKeever & Aaron Kernan made of it all? I read somewhere Donaghy isn't too happy with the tactics decision during the league.
Well done Cavan, clearly the better side on the day and good luck for remainder.
Cannot believe the space Cavan full forward line was given. In the past when you watched Armagh without the ball you knew there was a fair chance that someone would get a hand in somewhere and we would win back possession. Yesterday if Cavan got the ball on their own 21 you knew that the end of that move was going to be at the very least a shot for Cavan, i.e there was no chance of Armagh winning back possession. Where the hell was the tackling ? Looking for Clarke everytime is not going to win us anything.
Big improvement needed the next day whoever we get.
It sounds like he was just pig headed stubborn and not at least changing McKenna off Dunne. I wonder what players like McKeever & Aaron Kernan made of it all? I read somewhere Donaghy isn't too happy with the tactics decision during the league.
[/quote]
ak wasnt happy
in irish times ak said
"ideally we should play a sweeper...."
he doesnt accept this mantra of all out attack
we will be roasted in june by carlow or somebody and another year will be wasted.
It was odd listening to a manager basically saying, "I knew what was wrong and I knew how to fix it, but I didn't want to do it."
Or "I would do anything to win but I wont do that."
Jesus, Armagh are shite, like.
Quote from: thejuice on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
It was odd listening to a manager basically saying, "I knew what was wrong and I knew how to fix it, but I didn't want to do it."
Or "I would do anything to win but I wont do that."
Wasn't that a Meat Loaf song? ;D
I'll get my coat!
A good few Dubs I spoke to today are a tad worried now after seeing what can happen if ye don't follow the mob and play a sweeper, though in fairness they weren't as wide open in the league final.
I could be wrong but to me it sounds like Grimley, is a bit like the older ex players who won't give in to the idea that 6 on 6 is the best way to play gaelic football.
Spillane took a lot of persuading over the last 3 years or so that modern football needs to have some sort of system of play and even now Cork & Kerry have changed their ways as you only really appreciate how effective it is after you lose to a team playing it like Donegal or Tyrone.
I suppose Grimley's attitude was that Armagh have still got some very good defenders and we should be able to at least make it harder for them to shoot, under pressure. If he had kept the 6th defender in around their own 40 it could have been so different.
You could certainly see a player revolt in the weeks ahead if they don't reach some sort of an agreement between themselves.
QuoteWhat did Grimley say after the match?
From the papers today it sounds like he had decided back some time ago to try to combat teams who play a sweeper by letting his man follow the forward (sweeper) back into his own defence. This "pushing up" tactic was a bold decision I suppose as its like we now have an extra player in the scoring zone, however he got burnt and learnt that even if you don't like it, its near impossible to combat this style game unless you play the same tactic yourself
Newstalk 43:0 mins in or so http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/19/1244/19th_May_2013_-_Newstalk_Sport_Part_5
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/22588219
RTÉ
http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!rii=9:3535159:0::
Basically we'll go forward, no plan B. I've set my stall out and I wouldn't be much of a manager if I abandoned it.
As an Armagh man, I would love to say the only way is up. But if PG persists with the same tactic then we could be in for a further dip.
I would think any team would be happy to get Armagh in the Qualifiers.
As for Cavan, let me first apologise for any rude supporters. Cavan is a nice little harmless county. And so is your football team, which is why unfortunately you will get beat by plucky wee Fermanagh.
As a neutral I found the game very enjoyable to watch for a first round c'ship game.
And, in my opinion, Armagh weren't as bad as everyone is making out.
When they were just 3 points behind, they had the foot on the gas, and missed four very kickable frees, the worst coming from Aaron Kernan - the last fella you would expect to miss.
At that stage they had the share of midfield, your man Rafferty (No.23 I think?) looks a really good prospect, and add in Clarke's disallowed goal, you could say that Armagh could have won the game, whilst not playing at their best.
But who does play at their best at this time of year?
The only thing I couldn't forgive them for was the lack of tackling when Cavan were on the attack - not a hand was put on them, not even a cynical foul. But again, Cavan passing on the attack was top notch and very hard to defend against. They stuck to their counter attacking, confident that they could implement it.
They did the same to Down U21s and it could just be that Cavan have a very good set of players who know how to play football.
Armagh have played plenty of poor games in the past ten years and won, maybe that know-how was missing yesterday.
Quote from: rrhf on May 20, 2013, 04:22:14 PM
I feel sorry for grimley. He has been a good servant to Armagh, Monaghan. Meath, Cavan and others. I just think his ideas are so 2002. After this year The scene is set for the return of the mc. Step forward k mc geeney and teach these cubs how to defend. I dont think they will win any more this year however we must remember that there will be a big boost when Jamie Clarke gets back from his holidays.
FACK AFF you horror story!!!!!!! Feeling bad enough. :'(
That Clarke comment made me laugh out loud though, very droll.
Quote from: Orior on May 20, 2013, 05:47:04 PM
As an Armagh man, I would love to say the only way is up. But if PG persists with the same tactic then we could be in for a further dip.
I would think any team would be happy to get Armagh in the Qualifiers.
As for Cavan, let me first apologise for any rude supporters. Cavan is a nice little harmless county. And so is your football team, which is why unfortunately you will get beat by plucky wee Fermanagh.
You think so, fair enough ??? Ye were all pretty confident of beating Cavan yesterday too.
Was this the best individual performance again Armagh since frank the king mc guigan scored 5 with the left 5 with the right and a header.
Quote from: Orior on May 20, 2013, 05:47:04 PM
As an Armagh man, I would love to say the only way is up. But if PG persists with the same tactic then we could be in for a further dip.
I would think any team would be happy to get Armagh in the Qualifiers.
As for Cavan, let me first apologise for any rude supporters. Cavan is a nice little harmless county. And so is your football team, which is why unfortunately you will get beat by plucky wee Fermanagh.
Don't bite lads,Orior is fishing for some Cavan reactions to his condescending post. ;D
Here's the reality missed by many!
Grimley is a 2nd rate manager (at best). There are a few ex Armagh players currently managing other county teams yet Armagh give the job to a Down man (POR) then follow it up by appointing a man who has never managed a county team before. Just look at Grimleys record this year,,, Grimley comes in and bans his students from playing with their colleges in the McKenna, they proceed to loose all their games. He then enters NFL and again under achieves narrowly avoiding relegation. He then trumps it all by loosing to Cavan in the first round of the C'ship. Could his record be any worse?
He was on the news today saying this was "a project". A PROJECT?! This is a county who won an All-Ireland minor 4 years ago. This is a county who has access to Cross players. Look through their team and you see a bunch of very talented players. Grimleys conclusion that this is a project is just a cop out from "a manager who is way out of his depth" to quote Joe Brolly.
Grimley out for the sake of Armagh football.
New manager no improvement for Armagh will it get better the qualifiers? Well done to Cavan the best side won.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 20, 2013, 07:16:04 PM
New manager no improvement for Armagh will it get better the qualifiers? Well done to Cavan the best side won.
You don't think a new manager would improve Armagh?! Armagh are currently an absolute shambles and have been all year. Grimley took a mess from O'Rourke and made it a shambles. Armagh county board should be proud of themselves
Situation with Armagh and Paul Grimley is very reminiscent of Sunderland under Martin O'Neill,who refused to change tactics with an under performing team.Sunderland took the nuclear option and changed managers before slipping over into the abyss.Armagh,with 5 or 6 weeks to the next game,might consider doing likewise and appoint the Mc Entees before some Leinster county snaps them up.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 07:27:11 PM
Situation with Armagh and Paul Grimley is very reminiscent of Sunderland under Martin O'Neill,who refused to change tactics with an under performing team.Sunderland took the nuclear option and changed managers before slipping over into the abyss.Armagh,with 5 or 6 weeks to the next game,might consider doing likewise and appoint the Mc Entees before some Leinster county snaps them up.
You do come out with some nonsense in fairness.
What's nonsensical about that? A manager with outdated tactics who refuses to change.What is there to lose by making the change now?
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 07:41:20 PM
What's nonsensical about that? A manager with outdated tactics who refuses to change.What is there to lose by making the change now?
Things at Sunderland had simply gone stale.
They didn't use the same tactics in every game and refuse to change when it was obvious that change was needed. In football (the proper 11 a side variety) at the top level managers adapt their tactics depending on the opposition's. O'Neill was no different at Sunderland, the problem was players were too comfortable and not executing their tactics properly.
Armagh's failure yesterday is not comparable to Sunderland pre Di Canio (IMO anyway).
Underperformimg players,not motivated,struggling to win all season long? Plenty of comparisons imo
Not sure how reliable my source is but I have heard that Jamie is heading to New York now to play with Leitrim, the figure $10k was mentioned
Don't want to comment on yesterday's match, still so disappointed
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 07:54:09 PM
Underperformimg players,not motivated,struggling to win all season long? Plenty of comparisons imo
Your first post suggested Sunderland's problem was tactical?
It was about an under performing team not being motivated by a manager,with his outdated tactics playing a part
Was out at club this evening and I do think PG underestimates the reaction in the county if he thinks that yesterday was acceptable .
It is mind boggling that he persisted with the tactics knowing they were not working
An u10 manager would be crucified for less
I am so so annoyed at what went on in breffni before my eyes , we had a chance of a run and management imploded.
If I was Jamie why wouldn't I go to US he deserves better.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 08:36:40 PM
It was about an under performing team not being motivated by a manager,with his outdated tactics playing a part
What was outdated about his tactics? Their tactics weren't the same each game for 90 minutes, which was my original point.
The problem with Grimley, which Dermot Earley appeared to suggest also, is that he's undoubtedly a good coach but management is completely different. Instead of comparing him to O'Neill I'd be thinking more along the lines of Sammy Lee or Brian Kidd.
Both Grimley and O'Neill failed to get the best out of their players.Sunderland owner is on record as saying O'Neill wouldn't change,Grimley has stated he wont change.Close similarity in my book.
Tony - maybe you should have got your beloved cardinal to bless Armagh before the game.
Quote from: big balla on May 19, 2013, 03:49:35 PM
Quote from: Dirtyball on May 18, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 18, 2013, 03:16:30 PM
Dirtyball, different username same old Richiej ;)
. Spare me! Can I not just be me? It's a discussion board. Posters don't necessarily have to agree with you or mylestheslasher or westside. Or mylestheslashers other mate Itchy. I believe Val was stitched up properly. Hammered on this board and other boards. Stabbed in the back by fellow selector and shit on by an excuse for a county chairman. It's Armagh by 2 plus tomorrow. Lump on at 11/10 . Get the Christmas money in early. Biggest certainty since Shergar won the Derby.
What a tool!!!! Up Cavan
No sign of this p***k to come back and man up and admit he hasn't a clue. Slipped back into the sewer where he belongs most likely.
Myles,maybe his eminence blessed his native county players ;D
By the way Anthony Forde doesn't half get animated on the touchline.Thought he was going to have a cardiac arrest a few times yesterday!
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 09:25:20 PM
Myles,maybe his eminence blessed his native county players ;D
By the way Anthony Forde doesn't half get animated on the touchline.Thought he was going to have a cardiac arrest a few times yesterday!
Anthony should smoke some weed or something, he completely loses the plot in every game. I'm not sure it is helpful to be honest, sure he was the same when he was playing.
QuoteMyles,maybe his eminence blessed his native county players
Well Armagh didn't have a prayer.
QuoteBy the way Anthony Forde doesn't half get animated on the touchline.Thought he was going to have a cardiac arrest a few times yesterday!
He was going pure rulya. He certainly didn't appreciate that point that was narrowly wide. If he is involved in a close game he'll combust.
Ive watched the game twice so far. i cant see anything wrong with the team at all except the way they were set up. several times during yesterdays game the only players in armaghs half were the cavan forwards two armagh backs and the armagh goalkeeper(who was very good). all the armagh team were up swamping the cavan defence who simply fouled and fouled (the ref was pathetic). grimley was not my choice for manager but when i saw who was with him i nearly boiled. peter mc donnell!! ffs the man who destroyed armagh football aided an abetted by por. i feel sorry for Arron kernan and ciaran mc keever who's county careers have been wasted they are super footballers who'd get on any team but since the departure of big Joe they have been betrayed by the armagh county committee(not the county board) who have picked managers who have been useless and coaches who have been useless one after the other. Paul grimley freely admits hes not the man for the job. "I'll stay until someone better comes along" are his own words. armagh under the two Brian's changed the way Gaelic football is played today, that is undisputed. but now we have management who want to turn the clock back 15years and do you know what? they have succeeded we are back in that place where Brian mc alinden and Brian canavan found us.. struggling to the beat teams that are third rate and lucky to stay in division 2.
thank god it was not Tyrone yesterday stephen o Neill on one leg would have scored about 5 goals we'd be coming back through clones with paper bags over our heads and grimley and co would be telling us that Tyrone are a great team blah blah..
the best we can hope for now is that meath or somebody finish us off in the next game and the "management" can get back in the time machine they came out of.
Mc Keever and Aaron Kernan are pale shadows of the players they once were.Say what you like about POR but he was far better than the current set up,and gave us a few great days (DIv 2 title,League win away in Kerry,and Championship wins against Down etc.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 09:52:11 PM
Mc Keever and Aaron Kernan are pale shadows of the players they once were.Say what you like about POR but he was far better than the current set up,and gave us a few great days (DIv 2 title,League win away in Kerry,and Championship wins against Down etc.
yes! mck and arron were shafted yesterday. i dont think either of them knew what their roles were. but as the captain mckeever should have said hold on a minute this isnt working and set up a line of defence himself and told a few of his teamates to get back to fuk and defend for your life. what disturbed me was arrons post match interview where he seems convinced that the "tactic"(there only was one) employed yesterday is somehow going to work. if armagh want to play like crossmaglen then it follows that it would be easier for cross to put on the orange jerseys instead of trying to get other players to play like cross. saying that cross wouldnt win the anglo celt
Quote from: Onion Bag on May 20, 2013, 08:08:45 PM
Not sure how reliable my source is but I have heard that Jamie is heading to New York now to play with Leitrim, the figure $10k was mentioned
Don't want to comment on yesterday's match, still so disappointed
if your source is correct "if," then he(clarke) can go on to fuk and stay there. any player who isnt fully committed shouldnt be there in the first place and there no point in having a manager who has to kiss his ass every time the wind changes to keep the humour on him. one minute hes staying the next minute hes travelling he should be chased >:( tyrone won an all ireland without stephen o neill
The myth that the current Cross players would significantly enhance Armagh has been exploded big time.It was the old brigade that made Cross the team they were,for example when Oisin went off injured in this years semi final,they were lost and did lose without him.Crossmaglen will not win another AI in the next five years.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 10:20:04 PM
The myth that the current Cross players would significantly enhance Armagh has been exploded big time.It was the old brigade that made Cross the team they were,for example when Oisin went off injured in this years semi final,they were lost and did lose without him.Crossmaglen will not win another AI in the next five years.
completely true. tony kernan is not a starting county player. i'd say his stats if grimley and co bothered to take them yesterday were woeful. he gives an awful lot of stray passes really stray.. miles away
theres no reason why grimley could not be replaced NOW who'd notice? it doesnt happen in gaelic football but i wouldnt complain
There's six weeks to go,if the Mc Entees were willing,judging by his demeanour on tv,I'd say he'd happily go himself.His place in Armagh's history is secured,and no body would think bad of him.
Only so much that you can attribute bad performances to the manager/tactics. The reality is that Armagh are no longer a top ten team. They have of course an exceptional talent in Clarke, whilst A Kernan and McKeever are established intercounty players, but I don't see anything else to suggest they are any further ahead of the likes of Cavan at this present time.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 20, 2013, 11:05:46 PM
There's six weeks to go,if the Mc Entees were willing,judging by his demeanour on tv,I'd say he'd happily go himself.His place in Armagh's history is secured,and no body would think bad of him.
Why both McEntee's? Would the old Cross management not suffice?
I think all Armagh fans cans ask at the minute is too having a management setup capable of getting the best out of the players. We realise we are no world beaters but we do have the players to be at least competitive. The players must feel very disillusioned with the amount of stick Grimley is getting for his tactics, surely it will be very difficult for them to take his tactics seriously again
Grimley is a laughing stock.
QuoteThe myth that the current Cross players would significantly enhance Armagh has been exploded big time.It was the old brigade that made Cross the team they were,for example when Oisin went off injured in this years semi final,they were lost and did lose without him. Crossmaglen will not win another AI in the next five years.
In one respect you are bullshitting, Cross were beaten by a single point having missed an open goal against a great club that had been building for years. If only Armagh generally had losers like that. But in another respect you are right, Cross has 2.5% of the players in Armagh, the reason why they win is because they are a team and play as a team, which Armagh do not. If Jamie had 3 men marking him against Cross, Carragher, Cunningham or McNamee would be making hay.
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 17, 2013, 01:11:57 PM
Gee, Ciaran O'Hanlon looks awfully exposed at CHF. Do you think he'll start there? Who would replace him anyway--T Kernan? How big is O'Hanlon? I hope he has good speed and decent enough size. Sure looks like an attacking format with A. Kernan and Dyas at wing backs. Looks like a high scoring game potentially. Hoping for Armagh 3-13 to Cavan's 1-16. Concerned, though, that with an attacking ethos, our exposed full backs will concede 2 or 3 goals.
the signs were there read above
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 19, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Grimley makes POR look like a football mastermind.
Interesting considering you've previously said on this site ..
"
Congratulations Monaghan, completely blew Armagh away. Biggest defeat we have had in a few years.
Armagh REALLY missing out on Grimley, bet the county board are reeling, and so they should be!"
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16242.msg795018#msg795018
And on the Armagh GAA forum you also said,
"As for Grimley....less than 12 months ago we could have beaten Monaghan...12 months later Grimley is commanding everything and Armagh are destroyed by them."
"One thing about Grimley, he knows Armagh football better than anyone, thats all there is to it. Yet he is an Armagh man pretty much managing [yes managing] an outside county. It wasn't Banty disctating how things went it was Grimley!!" (Armaghgeddon_02)
I disagreed with this view on the Armagh site at the time.
Be careful what you wish for!!
Grimleyis a No2 and a good one, promoted beyond his ability to No 1
Quote from: Pangurban on May 21, 2013, 12:47:58 AM
Grimleyis a No2 and a good one, promoted beyond his ability to No 1
So he's the Commander Spock of the Starship Armagh?
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 12:46:52 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 19, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Grimley makes POR look like a football mastermind.
Interesting considering you've previously said on this site ..
"Congratulations Monaghan, completely blew Armagh away. Biggest defeat we have had in a few years.
Armagh REALLY missing out on Grimley, bet the county board are reeling, and so they should be!"
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16242.msg795018#msg795018
And on the Armagh GAA forum you also said,
"As for Grimley....less than 12 months ago we could have beaten Monaghan...12 months later Grimley is commanding everything and Armagh are destroyed by them."
"One thing about Grimley, he knows Armagh football better than anyone, thats all there is to it. Yet he is an Armagh man pretty much managing [yes managing] an outside county. It wasn't Banty disctating how things went it was Grimley!!" (Armaghgeddon_02)
I disagreed with this view on the Armagh site at the time.
Be careful what you wish for!!
At what point did I deny saying that? Most Armagh fans wanted Grimley in.
Also, Grimley does know Armagh football, I think he has got the players in but the tactics he is using is wrong, any other manager in the country would have seen that they other day. In my opinion I think most Armagh fans expected him to be so wrong tactically.
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 12:46:52 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 19, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Grimley makes POR look like a football mastermind.
Interesting considering you've previously said on this site ..
"Congratulations Monaghan, completely blew Armagh away. Biggest defeat we have had in a few years.
Armagh REALLY missing out on Grimley, bet the county board are reeling, and so they should be!"
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16242.msg795018#msg795018
And on the Armagh GAA forum you also said,
"As for Grimley....less than 12 months ago we could have beaten Monaghan...12 months later Grimley is commanding everything and Armagh are destroyed by them."
"One thing about Grimley, he knows Armagh football better than anyone, thats all there is to it. Yet he is an Armagh man pretty much managing [yes managing] an outside county. It wasn't Banty disctating how things went it was Grimley!!" (Armaghgeddon_02)
I disagreed with this view on the Armagh site at the time.
Be careful what you wish for!!
Grimley got a ridiculous amount of credit in that thread for that 1st round game in 2010 when Monaghan beat Armagh. It was claimed by non Monaghan folk that the Messiah had come to Monaghan and Banty was merely his puppet.
Well done to Cavan, especially after Armagh got close with 15 minutes to go, Cavan just regained control of the game with ease.
Regardless of who gets through to the final from this half of the draw, the odds are weighed heavily in favour of the team who emerges from the other half.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 21, 2013, 01:52:31 AM
At what point did I deny saying that? Most Armagh fans wanted Grimley in.
Explains exactly why supporters shouldn't have a say in choosing their manager. I for one queried his selection on the Armagh site at the time. He was no.2 to POR last year ffs, definitely part of the problem rather than the solution.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 21, 2013, 01:52:31 AM
Also, Grimley does know Armagh football, I think he has got the players in but the tactics he is using is wrong, any other manager in the country would have seen that they other day.
I know Armagh football well but it certainly doesn't qualify me to manage the county team. As for the players he has in, Brian Mallon is playing great stuff for his club yet was sat on the bench yesterday. Robbie Tasker is back playing for his club, considering some of the players we have in and about the squad surely he's worthy of a spot?
Lads like Ulty Lennon from Harps, Sheridan from Forkhill, Brendy Mackin from Shane O'Neill's and Tony Donnelly from Cullyhanna should have been given their chance during the McKenna Cup and league.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 21, 2013, 01:52:31 AM
In my opinion I think most Armagh fans expected him to be so wrong tactically.
Those who watched us during the league most certainly did.
The biggest disappointment of all has been the failure to nurture the talent from the 2009 AI minor winning side.Not one player from that team has consistently made his Mark at senior level,4 years down the line.
On Sunday it was obvious that the Cavan management had done their homework on Armagh and hence got their tactics spot on.The same cannot be said for the Armagh management, who obviously wrongly assumed that a cavalier approach would suffice against what they assumed would be a "third division team".
irish news good craic today
Grimley" i have no problem whatsoever with the criticism laid at me.I was responsible for us losing the match.I`ve no issue with that"
when was the last time you heard a manager say something like that.
hopefully some players stand up tonite and be counted at the team meeting to discuss what went wrong
Honesty, yes, but also sounding like an interim manager, only holding the fort etc.
just noticed that Tony
strange words
"Joe`s admiration for John and Tony Mc eNTEE WOULD ONLY BE MATCHED BY MY OWN
WHEN THESE FORMER PLAYERS BECOME AVAILABLE I WILL SIT DOWN AND TALK TO THE COUNTY bOARD"
sounds like if Mc Entee wants to step in he will step aside
He said from day one, that he feels some of the 2002 team should be managing Armagh, and implied that he is only doing so due to their inavailability. For all intents and purposes he is by his own admission an "interim manager", who obviouslysees no long term future for himself in the role. He even said on tv last night that he has started a project that "I or someone else will have to finish"
QuoteHonesty, yes, but also sounding like an interim manager, only holding the fort etc.
This idea of holding the fort does not gel well with the doctrinaire, my way or no way, approach to tactics, The players on that team would have benefited as much from another game or two in Ulster as from another 20 minutes playing fixed tactics in the Cavan game. Changing the tactics might have given them that other game.
Dunne getting a lot of praise but to be honest its been years since I have saw an intercounty match where a full forward could get out in front and be simply faced with his man and nobody else all game long. There was so much space it was unbelievable. Dunne was able to just get his hands to the ball and kick the balls over at ease without being under any pressure, I doubt he would score too many against Donegal or Tyrone. I appreciate Grimleys philosophy, but its not going to work in this day and age. Imagine the damage Jamie Clarke would have done if he was in Dunnes position. Sunday was simply a game which showed how the modern game fares against the tradional game, Cavan simply crowded JC out anytime he got the ball, yet he got one sniff and got a 'goal'. Armagh were pretty brutal at times yesterday, yet still could have clawed something out of this game. Forker just seems to stick the boot to the ball without looking up for any alternative options, Aaron Kernan is looking more and more leggy each year and Kieran McKeever was taken to the cleaners too.
The most bizarre statement of all was "I wou;dnt be much of a manager if I changed tactics/gameplan at half time!" Paul, the best managers are those who do change tactics immediately on becoming aware that those employed aren't working.
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 21, 2013, 10:35:25 AM
Dunne getting a lot of praise but to be honest its been years since I have saw an intercounty match where a full forward could get out in front and be simply faced with his man and nobody else all game long. There was so much space it was unbelievable. Dunne was able to just get his hands to the ball and kick the balls over at ease without being under any pressure,
I thought it was more the Armagh full back having a nightmare game, which made Dunne look better than he is.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 21, 2013, 12:02:10 PM
The most bizarre statement of all was "I wou;dnt be much of a manager if I changed tactics/gameplan at half time!" Paul, the best managers are those who do change tactics immediately on becoming aware that those employed aren't working.
Seen that, T. Baffling to say the least!
Dunne was marked by 3 different people at various stages of the game.
What stuck out to me was Cavan were prepared for a battle and Armagh didn't seem to be.
A prime example was Mackey's goal. He should have been nailed.
I thought Jamie Clarke got a bit of a raw deal from the ref who really was very poor. The amount of pulling and dragging going on was shocking - none of it was punished. Clarke got some boys knees fired into him too just before the yellow.
It had no impact on the game as Cavan were much superior but if you allow boys to just hang of their markers jersies then it becomes a lot easier to mark dangerous forwards
Quote from: T Fearon on May 21, 2013, 12:02:10 PM
The most bizarre statement of all was "I wou;dnt be much of a manager if I changed tactics/gameplan at half time!" Paul, the best managers are those who do change tactics immediately on becoming aware that those employed aren't working.
yeah, but only when they have the players to allow that
I think Armagh people need to get real and realise they are on year 1 of a 25 year development plan. Your next all Ireland winner ain't born yet.
On a less positive note I notice grimley shined a light on the fact that he is a volunteer doing this work, and rte punditry is paid. It is a point worth making. Volunteers getting slagged on an ongoing basis. What do the rest think?
rrhf
i will be dead when this comes back around
the volunteer point from Grimley was a strong point
it may be one of the reasons why there is no queue of 2002 players stepping forward, Armagh at present dont have a pot to pee in.
Point taken that we aren't world beaters currently, but in a mediocre div 2 to say the least,we should not have been struggling to survive, nor should we be getting beat in the Championship by Roscommon and Cavan.
As I say the biggest indictment is the failure to bring through anyone from the 2009 AI Minor team that has established himself as a Senior player
I like the fact Grimley is a volunteer in management, and I think that Joe was teasing and having a little fun - unfortunately now it has been taken all personally and will fester on. I actually like both characters and hope neither get the sack... ;)
The key question here is.... are the 2002 bunch of Armagh footballers that driven by money they will not step forward and help Paul Grimley and others to work and improve Armagh football. Even If the man hasnt the foggiest idea, as GAA people we have to respect the fact that he is a non earning county manager in an era where plenty line their pockets, people are insulting his ego, I think that he is entitled to be held in respect due to his role in Armaghs 2002 success. I do think Joe Kernan will eventually make a return to Armagh senior football by the way and will achieve renewed success. Better than that it might happen sooner rather than later.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 21, 2013, 02:17:49 PM
Point taken that we aren't world beaters currently, but in a mediocre div 2 to say the least,we should not have been struggling to survive, nor should we be getting beat in the Championship by Roscommon and Cavan.
As I say the biggest indictment is the failure to bring through anyone from the 2009 AI Minor team that has established himself as a Senior player
and out of the managers since JK/PG era Grimley i think is the one trying hardest to give youth a chance. he will take some batterings in press after a beating like sunday, but he still has to be given a chance. I wouldnt get too hung up on near relegation in league either as a lot of boys were missing throughout and there was never any consistency getting built up, and thus also part reason for sunday.
Quote from: rrhf on May 21, 2013, 02:32:09 PM
I like the fact Grimley is a volunteer in management, and I think that Joe was teasing and having a little fun - unfortunately now it has been taken all personally and will fester on. I actually like both characters and hope neither get the sack... ;)
The key question here is.... are the 2002 bunch of Armagh footballers that driven by money they will not step forward and help Paul Grimley and others to work and improve Armagh football. Even If the man hasnt the foggiest idea, as GAA people we have to respect the fact that he is a non earning county manager in an era where plenty line their pockets, people are insulting his ego, I think that he is entitled to be held in respect due to his role in Armaghs 2002 success. I do think Joe Kernan will eventually make a return to Armagh senior football by the way and will achieve renewed success. Better than that it might happen sooner rather than later.
Answer to your question? is YES!
Justin McNulty in laois, Cathal O'rourke in Louth and McGeeney in Kildare all there to "supplement their income" as it was described in a paper recently. Armagh needs them but they need money.
Quote from: ck on May 21, 2013, 02:38:54 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 21, 2013, 02:32:09 PM
I like the fact Grimley is a volunteer in management, and I think that Joe was teasing and having a little fun - unfortunately now it has been taken all personally and will fester on. I actually like both characters and hope neither get the sack... ;)
The key question here is.... are the 2002 bunch of Armagh footballers that driven by money they will not step forward and help Paul Grimley and others to work and improve Armagh football. Even If the man hasnt the foggiest idea, as GAA people we have to respect the fact that he is a non earning county manager in an era where plenty line their pockets, people are insulting his ego, I think that he is entitled to be held in respect due to his role in Armaghs 2002 success. I do think Joe Kernan will eventually make a return to Armagh senior football by the way and will achieve renewed success. Better than that it might happen sooner rather than later.
Answer to your question? is YES!
Justin McNulty in laois, Cathal O'rourke in Louth and McGeeney in Kildare all there to "supplement their income" as it was described in a paper recently. Armagh needs them but they need money.
If you're going to dish out the dirt you would need to get your facts right. Not all of the 2002 stars are driven for money, let's not get carried away with generalisations. Paul McGrane is one of the driving forces in the newly formed Orchard Academy and I have not heard any suggestions of the McEntees taking money.
This obsession with getting a member of the 02 team in to manage the team is ridiculous too. Why should Grimley decide who succeeds him? It should be the best man for the job, end of.
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
This obsession with getting a member of the 02 team in to manage the team is ridiculous too. Why should Grimley decide who succeeds him? It should be the best man for the job, end of.
[/quote
best men for the job= Mc Entees or McGeeney at present
still think we are about 4 years off having a strong team but like the two Brian`s did they can set up a pattern of play which can be fine tuned over the next few years
PGs tactics are chilishly naive and will only work if the other side decide to match his tactics, if they dont he will fail, any side that play Armagh will pull back 13 men and leave acres of space for the two nippy forwards to run into who will mostprobably score or be fouled.
his plan works in training because both the teams in the training session are playing the same way, a shrewd coach should have different solutions for the various scenarios he will encounter .
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
This obsession with getting a member of the 02 team in to manage the team is ridiculous too. Why should Grimley decide who succeeds him? It should be the best man for the job, end of.
And I would suggest that the best man for the job could easily be found within that 2002 squad. There are any amount of candidates.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 21, 2013, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
This obsession with getting a member of the 02 team in to manage the team is ridiculous too. Why should Grimley decide who succeeds him? It should be the best man for the job, end of.
And I would suggest that the best man for the job could easily be found within that 2002 squad. There are any amount of candidates.
Yous would need to make yer mind up. When it was POR it should have been grimley. Now Grimley stock has fallen its someone else within 2002 panel !
Reality is Armagh are second if not thrid tier from where they where 10 years ago. You have to be realistic as to what can be achieved. A favourable back door draw and yous could get a few days out but other than that forget it. Yous are there to make up the numbers now !
All this talk about Cross means nothing whatsoever. Armagh are now like Carlow, one good clubteam and a poor county side.
Havn't posted about sunday til now and havn't read all the posts yet, but havn't seen ANYONE yet blame the players!
All grimbo bashing, have armagh people lost the plot? saying kernan and mckeever have been hung out to dry and
such things. PLayers are there to play, some of our boys have done a poor job of it all year. Granted some new lads
deserve time and proper guidance but it's time for lads to step, grimbo has taken all the blame on the chin himself so
fair play. Armagh are useless, end off. Maybe, just maybe we could get our act together and reach the last 8 at a push
McGeeney is obviously a different scenario but it is surely ridiculous to suggest that county managers outside the top echelons are 'earning' rather than being reimbursed for their time and expense? Any of them I know of hold down full time jobs. Grimley would be one of the few that doesn't and certainly is reasonably reimbursed in my book if the renumerartion talked about is any way accurate.
Doubt if anyone outside the serial managers - who are largely found out and gone at this stage - are in it for money.
Quote from: Bensars on May 21, 2013, 04:34:41 PM
Yous would need to make yer mind up. When it was POR it should have been grimley. Now Grimley stock has fallen its someone else within 2002 panel !
Reality is Armagh are second if not thrid tier from where they where 10 years ago. You have to be realistic as to what can be achieved. A favourable back door draw and yous could get a few days out but other than that forget it. Yous are there to make up the numbers now !
All this talk about Cross means nothing whatsoever. Armagh are now like Carlow, one good clubteam and a poor county side.
I don't need to make my mind up, I was against Grimley's appointment from day one. If POR had to go then why bring in his no.2?
Of all those from the 2002 panel I'd prefer Aidan O'Rourke, but we had our chance last year to appoint him and have instead opted for Grimley. Only the powers that be know why. Outside of the 2002 panel there are still good options within the county.
I think Justy is leaving Laois this Summer no matter what happens. Whether he's willing to take a step down and manage Armagh is another matter though.
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 21, 2013, 07:21:26 PM
I think Justy is leaving Laois this Summer no matter what happens. Whether he's willing to take a step down and manage Armagh is another matter though.
Apart from the cheeky aside I think you should keep him.
QuoteWhether he's willing to take a step down and manage Armagh is another matter though.
Perhaps he'll bring that nice Billy boy with him.
Quote from: Bensars on May 21, 2013, 04:34:41 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 21, 2013, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: ranch on May 21, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
This obsession with getting a member of the 02 team in to manage the team is ridiculous too. Why should Grimley decide who succeeds him? It should be the best man for the job, end of.
And I would suggest that the best man for the job could easily be found within that 2002 squad. There are any amount of candidates.
Yous would need to make yer mind up. When it was POR it should have been grimley. Now Grimley stock has fallen its someone else within 2002 panel !
Reality is Armagh are second if not thrid tier from where they where 10 years ago. You have to be realistic as to what can be achieved. A favourable back door draw and yous could get a few days out but other than that forget it. Yous are there to make up the numbers now !
All this talk about Cross means nothing whatsoever. Armagh are now like Carlow, one good clubteam and a poor county side.
An ultra successful club is not usually good for the county. Not enough variety.
G lads every man has to work, even if they have full time jobs, extra money managing a county team brings more more into a household. At the end of the day a family will always come be county, even though they may have given so much to that county in a playing capacity before hand,
Do Cavan get any credit in this postmortem? Dunne kicked some fine points and 8 from play, no matter how naive Armagh were is a superb tally, especially on his champ debut. Maybe ye are just not as good as you think ye are, I think we would have won even if you had a sweeper as I am sure Hyland had planned for that anyway. Good luck in the back door anyway, manys a team was reincarnated in it.
Oh theres no argument cavan were the better team, even if Armagh played different tactics, Cavan would have won. the worrying aspect from Cavan points of view was that there team looked unsure of themselves and their own ability before they realized Armagh were there for the taking. They should be too strong for Fermangh but Monaghan will not laid down and if Cavan are unsure of themselves early on, they could be in trouble no matter how good there players are.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 21, 2013, 08:47:25 PM
Oh theres no argument cavan were the better team, even if Armagh played different tactics, Cavan would have won. the worrying aspect from Cavan points of view was that there team looked unsure of themselves and their own ability before they realized Armagh were there for the taking. They should be too strong for Fermangh but Monaghan will not laid down and if Cavan are unsure of themselves early on, they could be in trouble no matter how good there players are.
I put that down to a lot of young lads getting nervous on a big day. That win will give them huge confidence and was so important to their development. I think Fermanagh will be a very tough game and it is 50:50. They are never easy bet, especially by Cavan.
From what I saw on Sunday I would expect Cavan to take care of Fermanagh.They have far more fire power,and a tighter defence.
Fermanagh certainly have a tighter defense than Cavan. It'll be a close match.
It's defo a 50/50 game. Most games between the two are generally tight affairs. Cavan have the better firepower up front with Dunne and Keating, but I think fermanagh have the better defender and possibly midfield also, esp with McKiernan out.
Will be greatly surprised if Fermanagh beat Cavan.The game under their belt and win against Armagh give Cavan a huge advantage,and even Armagh have better firepower than Fermanagh,and this was easily neutralised by Cavan.
Greatly surprised? It's hardly a David versus Goliath clash!
Can't see Fermanagh winning this,Cavan have momentum and confidence.No one would give Fermanagh a chance if they were playing Armagh
Fermanagh have been ultra defensive in the league. This game a different kettle of fish. Fermanagh were useful in the league and i think they may shade it.
Some great hard to call ties in ulster this year. Apart from antrim monaghan >:( all the rest very tough to call.
For Armagh its back to the drawing board and we need to decide whether to abandon this suicide football. I'd say a lot of home truths will come out of the meeting tonight and I hope that we can salvage at least one championship win from the season.
On the game itself I think you could see cavan visibly growing in belief as the game wore on. They have a young enough side not to have too many mental scars from previous failed campaigns. Anytime I have seen Keating he has looked very impressive and will be a handful for anyone in Ulster. Whilst Dunne appears to be a great finisher I think the Fermanagh game will be a greater test of his mettle, not sure if he has the same ball winning capabilities in a tight game that Keating has. Imo the Cavan v Fermanagh game is 50/50 but Cavan's greater scoring power in their inside line might just sway it their way.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 21, 2013, 08:37:41 PM
Do Cavan get any credit in this postmortem? Dunne kicked some fine points and 8 from play, no matter how naive Armagh were is a superb tally, especially on his champ debut. Maybe ye are just not as good as you think ye are, I think we would have won even if you had a sweeper as I am sure Hyland had planned for that anyway. Good luck in the back door anyway, manys a team was reincarnated in it.
That is what is wrong with TSG - football.
Imagine the hurling pundits if a player made a debut like Dunne did. They would be rightly raving, instead we have a spat between Brolly and the losers.
Exactly.
Armagh folk need to accept that they are rebuilding at present and that the current crop available aren't anywhere near the level of the sides from 02-08 or so. They were dumped out by Roscommon last year and scraped past Wicklow also I seem to remember a couple of years back in the qualifiers.
Apologies for the delay on this, I was on my hols, here's my tactical analysis of Cavan's win over Armagh http://action81.com/blog/?p=7262
Quote from: T Fearon on May 21, 2013, 10:20:49 PM
Can't see Fermanagh winning this,Cavan have momentum and confidence.No one from Armagh would give Fermanagh a chance if they were playing Armagh
Fixed that there. People outside Armagh see them on a similar level.
Quote from: AFS on May 22, 2013, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 21, 2013, 11:03:22 PM
Armagh folk need to accept that they are rebuilding at present and that the current crop available aren't anywhere near the level of the sides from 02-08 or so.
Jaysus, you're right! Can't believe none of us eejits had twigged this before now. tintin25, you truly have lifted the fog from before our eyes. Sure we're away in the head altogether to be even a little disappointed about losing to the mighty men from Cavan, especially since the current crop available aren't anywhere near the level of the sides from 02-08 or so. From now on I'm going to be content with the fact that we can even field a team at all. I mean, to expect anything more is just ridiculous.
8) Hope you took the defeat well ;D
Gobshite? BTW, not trying to lecture anybody. Just giving my 2 cents worth, like anyone else does from time to time on this board. Not arguing with the fact that you appear to be an avid follower of the team, and are in a better position to judge their ability than I am.
Interesting points made by Mickey Harte in I News today, where he looks at what would have happened had Jamie's goal stood (as it should have), with loads of time left Cavan possibly crumbling after their best efforts to stifle him fail, and Armagh going on to win the game (points out a couple of glaring misses by Mark Shields the seventh forward), and how PG would then have been lauded for his attacking tactics, the Armagh team for its character to come back, and the Cavan management lambasted for their ineffective negative tactics, and wasting a second man on Jamie etc. Fair points I suppose.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Interesting points made by Mickey Harte in I News today, where he looks at what would have happened had Jamie's goal stood (as it should have), with loads of time left Cavan possibly crumbling after their best efforts to stifle him fail, and Armagh going on to win the game (points out a couple of glaring misses by Mark Shields the seventh forward), and how PG would then have been lauded for his attacking tactics, the Armagh team for its character to come back, and the Cavan management lambasted for their ineffective negative tactics, and wasting a second man on Jamie etc. Fair points I suppose.
So play should continue after whistle?
The whistle should not have been sounded until the advantage was assessed.