Hurling's 2nd biggest all time rivalry and the biggest rivalry of the last 5 years.
I think the Cats are ripe to be skinned. Beaten out the gate against Galway, average against Limerick in a game they should have been bouncing back in.
Richie Hogan suspended after a referee inexplicably took a Kilkenny player to task for dangerous play, Michael Fennelly still coming back from injury.
Now their website has collapsed!
Tipp have been in 2nd gear so far this year and hopefully are coming to the boil. There is a bit of concern about our backs being a bit loose. In attack we are really starting to fire. Bonnar Maher is possibly the most under rated player in hurling at the moment. Lar still has the intelligence and lethalness of old and hopefully the stamina. Pa Bourke is starting to hit a rich vein and I expect something big from Eoin Kelly.
Tipperary by 7.
Could well agree with you that Tipp are favourites for this one, but could not see them winning by 7 points. If there is going to be a big margin in this game then I would see it as being in Kilkennys favour. They are used to putting these types of scores over teams at this period of the season, however, if Tipp can get their heads right mentally going in to this game then the semi and an All Ireland title are well within their grasp.
To put it bluntly I hope Tipp beat them out the gate. Hurling's second biggest hurling rivalry? Really?
I'm still expecting a backlash from the Galway game, which never came against Limerick. If it's going to come it'll be against Tipp imo.
Quote from: Reillers on August 03, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
To put it bluntly I hope Tipp beat them out the gate. Hurling's second biggest hurling rivalry? Really?
We certainly won't be beaten out any gate anyway that's for sure.
Training going well , good spirit in the camp, I'd say we'll edge it by about 4 points if Fennelly & Rice do the business in midfield.
Will Richie Power be fit for this game?
Quote from: kilkennycat2004 on August 05, 2012, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 03, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
To put it bluntly I hope Tipp beat them out the gate. Hurling's second biggest hurling rivalry? Really?
We certainly won't be beaten out any gate anyway that's for sure.
Training going well , good spirit in the camp, I'd say we'll edge it by about 4 points if Fennelly & Rice do the business in midfield.
Good to see a Kilkenny poster on board now, would dip into the cats fourm the odd time, good oul board to be fair
Not sure if Kilkenny are back on track just yet. In the semi-final they were gifted a couple of goals by Limericks defence who seemed to have went walk about, leaving Shefflin on his own inside the 21. That aside, I think Limerick weren't that far away. The return to form of the little darling Tommy will be a bonus for Kilkenny And TJ Reid looked good again.
Tipp have been doing just enough so far to get them through. They'll need to step it up another gear which they are well capable of, I just don't have confidence in Declan Ryan to make the right moves in the heat of battle to get them over the line if its tight.
Will go for Tipp by 2 points.
I was in petits in gorey this morning and there was poster of the irish indo hurling coverage 2012 that showed Tipp v the cats . The final is on early this year.
Quote from: Asal Mor on August 06, 2012, 01:59:32 AM
Will Richie Power be fit for this game?
Yeah no problem with Richie. We'll probably line out the same as the last day other then TJ Reid for the suspended Richie Hogan.
Its going to be a real battle on August 19th, will make some of these olympic events seem like tiddley winks ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2012, 10:35:59 AM
Quote from: kilkennycat2004 on August 05, 2012, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 03, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
To put it bluntly I hope Tipp beat them out the gate. Hurling's second biggest hurling rivalry? Really?
We certainly won't be beaten out any gate anyway that's for sure.
Training going well , good spirit in the camp, I'd say we'll edge it by about 4 points if Fennelly & Rice do the business in midfield.
Good to see a Kilkenny poster on board now, would dip into the cats fourm the odd time, good oul board to be fair
A great forum if you were from Kilkenny and wanted to tell everyone how great Kilkenny were.
A few contributors from other counties who tried to bring a bit of realism to proceedings weren't welcome.
Red Rebel was a great contributor until he got banned.
Quote from: kilkennycat2004 on August 05, 2012, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: Reillers on August 03, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
To put it bluntly I hope Tipp beat them out the gate. Hurling's second biggest hurling rivalry? Really?
We certainly won't be beaten out any gate anyway that's for sure.
Training going well , good spirit in the camp, I'd say we'll edge it by about 4 points if Fennelly & Rice do the business in midfield.
I said I hope, we can all live in hope.
On more than one occasion a hell lot of GAA people hoped Cork would be humiliated (for whichever reasons) and I can't pretend that we (along with most fans I imagine) were delighted to see Galway do it to your lot. (Once in a blue moon but it reminds everyone Kilkenny are human and beatable).
I admit it was nice to see a few Kilkenny fans who got that a little bit ahead of themselves over the last few years, predicting a 10 point plus win, put in their place and reminded that nothing lasts forever. A little bit too much arrogance has crept in over the years. (It says a lot coming from a Cork supporter ;) )
I agree with you though, I imagine a 4/5 point win for Kilkenny. As much as I enjoyed it, I imagine that Galway game was a blip and we're still waiting Kilkenny's real response, whether that's unleashed against Tipp or if they keep that for Galway, or Cork for that matter (God help us) still we'll learn a lot from the game, but I can't see beyond a Kilkenny win unless Tipp have an exceptional day.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2012, 12:54:39 PM
I just don't have confidence in Declan Ryan to make the right moves in the heat of battle to get them over the line if its tight.
I would disagree with that actually Johnney, i feel we have seen a different side to Deccie this year, i know the lads i speak to on the panel have been impressed with him and his compadres thus far this year, i think he was in a lose/lose situation last year having taken over an all Ireland winning team, had he put his own stamp on the team it would have led to questions of why change a winning formula and of course having changed very little(Fanning was retiring win or lose in September 2010) he has been accused since of not evolving Sheedys team !
Dropping Eoin Kelly isn't a decision lightly taken by any Tipp manager(ask Babs !) but Declan went about it in a professional manner as he did with the decision to go with a new captain this year, he approached Eoin personally in both cases and explained his reasoning behind the decisions which was accepted and appreciated by Eoin, i personally don't think Sheedy would have made either call, i also think he handled the Lar situation very well.
I think his decision making on the sidelines in Tipps three games this year has been swift and decisive, making substitutions before half time in two of the three games and giving arguably Tipp greatest ever hurler the curly finger while the Limerick game was still in the melting pot,his handling of a breach of discipline post the Limerick game was handled impressively imho, the individuals involved weren't singled out but the entire panel were called together for a fairly severe dressing down during which he left panel members in no doubt about what was expected of them, i believe his straight talking no nonsense approach has galvanised the entire panel as numbers 16-32 are aware that if they are performing in training then their chance will come, something that a couple of panel members i know didn't feel under the previous management, if the boy wonder aint safe then nobody is !
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 07, 2012, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2012, 12:54:39 PM
I just don't have confidence in Declan Ryan to make the right moves in the heat of battle to get them over the line if its tight.
I would disagree with that actually Johnney, i feel we have seen a different side to Deccie this year, i know the lads i speak to on the panel have been impressed with him and his compadres thus far this year, i think he was in a lose/lose situation last year having taken over an all Ireland winning team, had he put his own stamp on the team it would have led to questions of why change a winning formula and of course having changed very little(Fanning was retiring win or lose in September 2010) he has been accused since of not evolving Sheedys team !
Dropping Eoin Kelly isn't a decision lightly taken by any Tipp manager(ask Babs !) but Declan went about it in a professional manner as he did with the decision to go with a new captain this year, he approached Eoin personally in both cases and explained his reasoning behind the decisions which was accepted and appreciated by Eoin, i personally don't think Sheedy would have made either call, i also think he handled the Lar situation very well.
I think his decision making on the sidelines in Tipps three games this year has been swift and decisive, making substitutions before half time in two of the three games and giving arguably Tipp greatest ever hurler the curly finger while the Limerick game was still in the melting pot,his handling of a breach of discipline post the Limerick game was handled impressively imho, the individuals involved weren't singled out but the entire panel were called together for a fairly severe dressing down during which he left panel members in no doubt about what was expected of them, i believe his straight talking no nonsense approach has galvanised the entire panel as numbers 16-32 are aware that if they are performing in training then their chance will come, something that a couple of panel members i know didn't feel under the previous management, if the boy wonder aint safe then nobody is !
I'll bow to your greater knowledge hoh, but I think he'll have a few more big calls to make next sunday on whether he sticks Paudie Maher on shefflin no matter where he goes or takes a chance on the man in that position to do a job. I personally thought Kilkenny deliberately targeted the Tipp rhb in the AI last year and got too much joy before a change was made. Tipp can't afford that to happen again.
I would think the chances of man marking Shefflin with Paudie are zero Johnney, Paudies deliveries into the forwards are far too important for Tipp, i have a feeling Shefflin will be on O'Brien in the corner to start with to try and exploit the height difference.
I wouldn't have any great worries about Shefflin on Tom Stapelton either as Henrys game ain't about speed and thats Toms achilles heel,in fairness I don't believe Tipp will be worrying unduly about Shefflin in any case, Rice and Fennelly are the beating heart of this Kilkenny team now,Fennelly in particular, the work the pair of them are asked to do to link the forwards and backs is phenomenal as Cody will undoubtedly have his halfbackline as deep as last years final to limit the space in front of the full backline that cost them so dearly in 2010, the result will largely hinge on Tipp creating space by dragging the half backs out which will require us to at least break even in midfield.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 07, 2012, 04:55:42 PM
I would think the chances of man marking Shefflin with Paudie are zero Johnney, Paudies deliveries into the forwards are far too important for Tipp, i have a feeling Shefflin will be on O'Brien in the corner to start with to try and exploit the height difference.
I wouldn't have any great worries about Shefflin on Tom Stapelton either as Henrys game ain't about speed and thats Toms achilles heel,in fairness I don't believe Tipp will be worrying unduly about Shefflin in any case, Rice and Fennelly are the beating heart of this Kilkenny team now,Fennelly in particular, the work the pair of them are asked to do to link the forwards and backs is phenomenal as Cody will undoubtedly have his halfbackline as deep as last years final to limit the space in front of the full backline that cost them so dearly in 2010, the result will largely hinge on Tipp creating space by dragging the half backs out which will require us to at least break even in midfield.
Can't see Shefflin starting in the half forwards on Sunday week either, but was just making the point that I thought Deccy let it go on too long before he made the change, maybe he has improved with experience in this regard.
I've always thought you'd need to take a few long range points early on and get a bit of a lead to draw the Kilkenny half backs out, but Hogan will invariably sit deep no matter what's happening in front of him and as you say they rely very heavily on Fennelly in particular to cover the ground left by Hogan
I have a feeling that Deccie and co have had that deep lying Kilkenny half backline and how to counteract it in the back of their mind since last September, i think the role Lar played in the second half of the Munster final was a glimpse of what the plan is, Sheedy started Lar at 11 on Hogan in 2009 with the plan being to drag Hogan out but Hogan is a disciplined performer and refused to budge which led to Lar popping over four points from distance, in Bren Maher and Shane McGrath we have two lads in centrefield well able to pop over a score as well as Noel McGrath, the middle third is going to be some battleground Sunday week !
I think the teams that are left, Tipp, Galway and Cork do not fear Kilkenny the way others do. All 3 (well all 2) are absolutely capable of beating Kilkenny. Tipp need to keep their head, don't get brought down to Kilkenny's game, let them play their own.
'Get brought down to Kilkenny's game'??? Are you for real? They have been the best team in the country for the last 10 years.
This is going to be a massive match . Shefflin might retire after this year and if they win the all ireland he'll have 9 medals. Tipp have only won one all Ireland with this team and they know that isn't very good.
Was at a loose end Thursday evening so i headed down to training to see how things were going, it was probably the 10th or 11th Tipp training session i have been to this year and by far the most impressive.
I had some doubts about Ross Dunphy taking over from Cian this year but i must admit he seems to have timed the physical conditioning to perfection,it took the lads a while to get used to Dunphys way of doing things having had Cians particular brand of cajoling for the previous three years, Dunphys approach is more drill sargeant than Cians but it seems to be working, the drills were excellent with Tommy taking the forwards and Declan Fanning the backs, one thing is certain our forwards wont be sticking rigidly to their positions like they did in last years all Ireland.
In the game played all the forwards on view were a blur of movement, Shane Bourke, Pa and Lar were particularly impressive with Lar looking ultra sharp, Shane must be pretty close to starting at this stage but i believe the team will be the same side that started the Munster final, Eoin Kelly and Noel McGrath didn't train but will both be fine, Gearoid Ryan is out though with a broken finger, the game at the end of training was pretty feisty, Paudie Maher creased Seamie Callinan and then hit him another dunt for good measure( must have been channeling his inner "Tyrell" ;)), Shane McGrath and James Woodlock knocked sparks off each other as well, Brendan Maher looked to be approaching his 2010 form and Paul Curran was moving more freely than of late, i think Tommy forgot to borrow the whistle from Brian Cody for the night ;)
Its going to be one hell of a battle on Sunday.
QuoteTipp need to keep their head, don't get brought down to Kilkenny's game,
You never lost it Reillers, it could only come from a Cork man.
Tipp talk is that if they win on Sunday that the defeat will "finish" this KK team.
Dangerous talk that.
The Cork team of the mid noughties were in my view much, much better than this Tipp team and the Cork lads did their best but KK prevailed.
Intriguing match. Kk midfield really need to get back to their best to win this one.
Kilkenny are a wounded animal. I think they will win this one maybe by a bit.
Be interesting to see how lar does.
I'd like to see a tipp Galway final. It's a great rivalry and you can see the claws come out with a few boys here.
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Tipp talk is that if they win on Sunday that the defeat will "finish" this KK team.
Dangerous talk that.
The Cork team of the mid noughties were in my view much, much better than this Tipp team and the Cork lads did their best but KK prevailed.
What "Tipp talk" is that then ? Throw up an auld link to an article or radio/tv interview with one of the Tipp lads saying they will "finish" Kilkenny like a good chap.
I know a fair clatter of lads from both sides and there is nothing but the height of respect between both camps( Jaysus is there ever a wedding of a panel member that isn't attended by half of the other sides panel), i know some of the Kilkenny lads were disappointed with the stories that appeared after last years All Ireland about them being unhappy with Tipps reaction to winning in 2010, just like Tipp were unhappy that stories were going around after 2010 that Tipp were gunning for Kilkenny after 09 as Kilkenny were saying that Tipps performance in 09 was a flash in the pan, its all bullshit made up by journalists trying to sell papers, any senior hurler who needs a perceived sleight to get up for an All Ireland final ( or semi) shouldn't be let near a jersey and wouldn't be, all the rubbish that pundits come up with about teams pinning negative articles to a dressing room wall for motivation are just that,rubbish, these lads are elite athletes at the pinnacle of their chosen sport, they are,to a man, winners , who need no motivation other than to be the best.
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Tipp talk is that if they win on Sunday that the defeat will "finish" this KK team.
Dangerous talk that.
The Cork team of the mid noughties were in my view much, much better than this Tipp team and the Cork lads did their best but KK prevailed.
That was a much younger KK team back then and alas every dog has its day.
Kilkenny no matter what happens this year will have key positions to fill very shortly as Noel Hickey is past his best, JJ Delaney has some miles on the clock, Big Hogan is getting more and more injuries, Larkin and Shefflin also have been on the go for quite a while as well.
There are players there to fill spaces like TJ Reid, Richie Power et all, but certainly a new fullback will be required in the next year, Cody may have a ready replacement in mind or move Tyrell in but changes will need to be made.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 14, 2012, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Tipp talk is that if they win on Sunday that the defeat will "finish" this KK team.
Dangerous talk that.
The Cork team of the mid noughties were in my view much, much better than this Tipp team and the Cork lads did their best but KK prevailed.
What "Tipp talk" is that then ? Throw up an auld link to an article or radio/tv interview with one of the Tipp lads saying they will "finish" Kilkenny like a good chap.I know a fair clatter of lads from both sides and there is nothing but the height of respect between both camps( Jaysus is there ever a wedding of a panel member that isn't attended by half of the other sides panel), i know some of the Kilkenny lads were disappointed with the stories that appeared after last years All Ireland about them being unhappy with Tipps reaction to winning in 2010, just like Tipp were unhappy that stories were going around after 2010 that Tipp were gunning for Kilkenny after 09 as Kilkenny were saying that Tipps performance in 09 was a flash in the pan, its all bullshit made up by journalists trying to sell papers, any senior hurler who needs a perceived sleight to get up for an All Ireland final ( or semi) shouldn't be let near a jersey and wouldn't be, all the rubbish that pundits come up with about teams pinning negative articles to a dressing room wall for motivation are just that,rubbish, these lads are elite athletes at the pinnacle of their chosen sport, they are,to a man, winners , who need no motivation other than to be the best.
I don't know who Cahill what players Cahill was talking to if any. You'd need to ask him. He's a Tipp man.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/333321/ From about 39 minutes into this podcast.
I was surprised he came out with this stuff live on air. There must be some sort of talk about it ?. But I'm not surprised being a Tipp man that you'd want to avoid this sort of loose talk. The KK lads would love to hear it. Cats are dangerous enough without being goaded about retiring them.
Jesus wept, so as i suspected the "Tipp talk" is pub talk rehashed by a journalist,nothing to do with the panel or management team, a journalist by the way who wouldn't be privy to any inside info following his publication of an off the record conversation under Sheedys reign, i was at a wedding in Cork in July and a couple of Kilkenny people told me that they would beat us by a point a man, that's fair dangerous talk don't you think, Kilkenny talk of beating us by a point a man, fierce dangerous that loose talk ;)
Why on earth as a Tipp man would i "want to avoid any loose talk", do you think either the Tipp or Kilkenny lads give a flying fcuk what an assortment of malcontents,has beens,never have beens and never will bes say on a website or in the pub, i can see Declan at training tonight, "a shure fcuk it lads, no point turning up Sunday, Jimmy below in the Arch told Jackie that we will finish the cats Sunday, shure we have ne'er a chance now, Cody and the boys will be bulllin".
I wonder will the Tipp lads have a recording of Mulcahy accusing Lar of cheating on Sunday night Sunday game playing on the old mp3 players before they go out Sunday,will the rehashing of pub talk by a pundit be on their minds, will it fcuk as like.
I wonder will Eddie Kehers famous "Kilkenny have no interest in back door All-Irelands" be weighing on the minds of the Kilkenny panel on Sunday or will Mulhalls "Tipperary kiss my arse " jibe at last years homecoming be foremost in Tipp minds, will it fcuk as like, what will be foremost in the minds of both panels of players will be the 75-77 minutes of pain and hurt that face them on the sacred sod and the 12 months of pain and hurt that await the losers.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 14, 2012, 12:56:16 PM
Jesus wept, so as i suspected the "Tipp talk" is pub talk rehashed by a journalist,nothing to do with the panel or management team, a journalist by the way who wouldn't be privy to any inside info following his publication of an off the record conversation under Sheedys reign, i was at a wedding in Cork in July and a couple of Kilkenny people told me that they would beat us by a point a man, that's fair dangerous talk don't you think, Kilkenny talk of beating us by a point a man, fierce dangerous that loose talk ;)
Why on earth as a Tipp man would i "want to avoid any loose talk", do you think either the Tipp or Kilkenny lads give a flying fcuk what an assortment of malcontents,has beens,never have beens and never will bes say on a website or in the pub, i can see Declan at training tonight, "a shure fcuk it lads, no point turning up Sunday, Jimmy below in the Arch told Jackie that we will finish the cats Sunday, shure we have ne'er a chance now, Cody and the boys will be bulllin".
I wonder will the Tipp lads have a recording of Mulcahy accusing Lar of cheating on Sunday night Sunday game playing on the old mp3 players before they go out Sunday,will the rehashing of pub talk by a pundit be on their minds, will it fcuk as like.
I wonder will Eddie Kehers famous "Kilkenny have no interest in back door All-Irelands" be weighing on the minds of the Kilkenny panel on Sunday or will Mulhalls "Tipperary kiss my arse " jibe at last years homecoming be foremost in Tipp minds, will it fcuk as like, what will be foremost in the minds of both panels of players will be the 75-77 minutes of pain and hurt that face them on the sacred sod and the 12 months of pain and hurt that await the losers.
Thanks for clearing all that up and it's good to hear it's all bullshit and all pub talk just like Cahill said it was in that podcast. I never believed a word of it myself.
But sure some players, supporters and internet posters would nearly believe anything.
Indeed they would, shur didn't Lar have a £3000 bet on himself not to score in the Munster hurling final, placed by his good friend Redser O'Grady, it must be true a fine upstanding gentleman like ex Cork captain Tomas Mulcahy mentioned it on national television on Sunday night ;)
It must be in the water in Tipp, shur didn't Babs bet the ranch on Cork to beat Tipp in the 1990 Munster final ;)
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 13, 2012, 10:51:57 AM
Was at a loose end Thursday evening so i headed down to training to see how things were going, it was probably the 10th or 11th Tipp training session i have been to this year and by far the most impressive.
I had some doubts about Ross Dunphy taking over from Cian this year but i must admit he seems to have timed the physical conditioning to perfection,it took the lads a while to get used to Dunphys way of doing things having had Cians particular brand of cajoling for the previous three years, Dunphys approach is more drill sargeant than Cians but it seems to be working, the drills were excellent with Tommy taking the forwards and Declan Fanning the backs, one thing is certain our forwards wont be sticking rigidly to their positions like they did in last years all Ireland.
In the game played all the forwards on view were a blur of movement, Shane Bourke, Pa and Lar were particularly impressive with Lar looking ultra sharp, Shane must be pretty close to starting at this stage but i believe the team will be the same side that started the Munster final, Eoin Kelly and Noel McGrath didn't train but will both be fine, Gearoid Ryan is out though with a broken finger, the game at the end of training was pretty feisty, Paudie Maher creased Seamie Callinan and then hit him another dunt for good measure( must have been channeling his inner "Tyrell" ;)), Shane McGrath and James Woodlock knocked sparks off each other as well, Brendan Maher looked to be approaching his 2010 form and Paul Curran was moving more freely than of late, i think Tommy forgot to borrow the whistle from Brian Cody for the night ;)
Its going to be one hell of a battle on Sunday.
Great stuff HOH. It's always interesting to get the inside track. This one is gonna be fierce. Neither Tipp or Kilkenny have been at their best so far this year but they should both be bursting out of their skins on Sunday. I can't wait - it will be fascinating, exciting and hopefully a bit scary too.
Quote from: Asal Mor on August 14, 2012, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 13, 2012, 10:51:57 AM
Was at a loose end Thursday evening so i headed down to training to see how things were going, it was probably the 10th or 11th Tipp training session i have been to this year and by far the most impressive.
I had some doubts about Ross Dunphy taking over from Cian this year but i must admit he seems to have timed the physical conditioning to perfection,it took the lads a while to get used to Dunphys way of doing things having had Cians particular brand of cajoling for the previous three years, Dunphys approach is more drill sargeant than Cians but it seems to be working, the drills were excellent with Tommy taking the forwards and Declan Fanning the backs, one thing is certain our forwards wont be sticking rigidly to their positions like they did in last years all Ireland.
In the game played all the forwards on view were a blur of movement, Shane Bourke, Pa and Lar were particularly impressive with Lar looking ultra sharp, Shane must be pretty close to starting at this stage but i believe the team will be the same side that started the Munster final, Eoin Kelly and Noel McGrath didn't train but will both be fine, Gearoid Ryan is out though with a broken finger, the game at the end of training was pretty feisty, Paudie Maher creased Seamie Callinan and then hit him another dunt for good measure( must have been channeling his inner "Tyrell" ;)), Shane McGrath and James Woodlock knocked sparks off each other as well, Brendan Maher looked to be approaching his 2010 form and Paul Curran was moving more freely than of late, i think Tommy forgot to borrow the whistle from Brian Cody for the night ;)
Its going to be one hell of a battle on Sunday.
Great stuff HOH. It's always interesting to get the inside track. This one is gonna be fierce. Neither Tipp or Kilkenny have been at their best so far this year but they should both be bursting out of their skins on Sunday. I can't wait - it will be fascinating, exciting and hopefully a bit scary too.
Whilst last Sundays game was always going to be a bit nervy this Sundays will be far from it. There'll be a few markers laid down early on, on the scoreboard and elsewhere.
Once the dothing of cloth hats is over in the stands between the two traditional powers it'll be full steam ahead..
great stuff.
I wonder whose turn it is to be "jackied" on the Tipp side, 2009-Seamie -frontal charge, 2010- Brendan Maher- frontal charge, 2011- Lar Corbett-various, 2012-The Bonner ? ;)
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 14, 2012, 04:26:55 PM
I wonder whose turn it is to be "jackied" on the Tipp side, 2009-Seamie -frontal charge, 2010- Brendan Maher- frontal charge, 2011- Lar Corbett-various, 2012-The Bonner ? ;)
I fancy Jackie to get "jackied" on the KK side.
Can't wait for this.
Got my ticket today and will have to find something blue and gold to wear to pish off my KK friends and family.
So hard to call this one!! As a Galwayman, I honestly don't care who wins this one either! I know everyone keeps saying that we would rather face Tipp than Kilkenny but that in itself is disrespectful to Tipp as they would be just as hard a team to play as the cats!! Whoever wins this one will go in as favourites and that suits me just fine! Galway have a hell of a lot to do before the final when serious questions will be asked of them! They have to be careful in the lead up to the final and both KK and Tipp have now so much experience in All Ireland final build ups don't they?? With regard to Sunday's match no matter how motivated Kilkenny are I just feel that Tipp have the easier capacity to move up to that 4th gear needed as they are younger with less miles on the clock!!This behind closed doors training is a load of bullshit I feel from the cats purely designed to give off an impression of serious training, to intimidate the opposition etc etc I mean wasn't everyone saying a few years ago that their training sessions were like intercounty matches and they were also saying that all were welcome to watch them as well??!!!These training sessions can't hide one obvious fact, that the team is on the slide and while they might have one sting left, their marquee players Shefflin, Walsh are shoving on and they do not have the talent on the line to step into those massive shoes straight away! They are the greatest team ever in my opinion and they have thrilled us so much for the last 12 years but father time is catching up! Tipp to win by 2 or 3 points I think though a Kilkenny win wouldn't surprise me either! One thing for sure, there will be plenty of timber flying!!1
1.B Cummins
2.Conor O'Brien
3.Paul Curran (captain)
4.Michael Cahill
5.Tom Stapelton
6.Conor O'Mahoney
7.Padraig Maher (vice captain)
8.Brendan Maher
9.Shane McGrath
10.Pa Burke
11.Patrick Maher
12.Lar Corbett
13.Brian O'Meara
14.John O'Brien
15.Noel McGrath
As expected, no changes from the Munster final, I believe that Johnno will start despite his horrible news earlier in the week.
Was down at training last night, very sombre mood in there for obvious reasons, was talking to Eoin Kelly afterwards and he reckons he will be fit to tog Sunday, i must admit he didn't look right at all during training, his movement was very laboured, one thing i noticed was Noel McGrath taking a lot of frees during the session which would suggest to me that the management aren't too confident of Eoin being fit, obviously Pa will be on the frees from the start but if anything were to happen to him and Eoin wasn't fit then Noel would be next in line.
I hope Tipp win this because I just feel Kilkenny will be able to exact revenge on us.
We owe Tipp a beating after the lucky way they squeezed by us 2 years ago.
This analysis by Nicky English is worth a read. Tipp are going for a 4th consecutive all ireland final but they have only one all ireland to show for it so far . And Kilkenny have their own problems. And whoever wins will be favs.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0818/1224322383826.html
There is a perception that Tipp are on an upward curve but I would only agree with that up to a certain point. They were really poor in the league semi-final and although they improved enough to win against Limerick, they were coming from a very low base and it took Bonnar Maher's introduction to lift themThey improved the next day against Cork with Lar Corbett's return but I feel they plateaued in the Munster final. The full-back line did step up considerably but that line apart, there was no improvement. The rest of the team as a unit were no better than they had been against Cork. Take their year as a whole and their form really has been patchy. For them to win tomorrow, they will have to take a significant step up collectively.
Kilkenny had the Dublin game circled in the calendar from months out. I met Brian Cody at a function in Cork around Christmas and he was talking about Dublin even then. They were ready to function at a very high level in that game and they haven't got back to that level since.
Some of their best players – in the forwards especially – haven't been in their best form. As a team, even their free-taking has been unusually unreliable. Although Aidan Fogarty has looked dangerous on his return, Eoin Larkin hasn't scored freely since the league final and Richie Power has been in and out as well, albeit that he took a heavy knock against Limerick. When you consider that they've lost Eddie Brennan since last year's All-Ireland final and are facing Tipp tomorrow without Richie Hogan, you're really putting a huge onus on Henry Shefflin to get the scores.
It would have been hard to imagine after the league final that Kilkenny would reach this part of the year still so reliant on Henry to carry the scoring burden. He will step up to his task as he always does but unless Power and Larkin step up with him, it's hard to see Kilkenny racking up the kind of high 20-point total that usually wins them games.
I was favouring Tipp for this but I think with Kilkenny having JJ Delaney fully fit, Rice and Fennelly in midfield and time to prepare they will be hard to stop. Will be a bit of softening up before the ball goes in I would say.
Yeah going for Tipp also. Should be a thumping good game
Look's like Kilkenny are going to have to beat the ref as well. Some soft decisions going Tipp's way
Jez, for a game that is supposed to be a mans game, there's alot of diving to get frees on both sides! (But don't tell anybody, because it's a mans game. ;) )
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 19, 2012, 03:59:48 PM
Jez, for a game that is supposed to be a mans game, there's alot of diving to get frees on both sides! (But don't tell anybody, because it's a mans game. ;) )
You'll see plenty of the diving when Mayo play the Dubs!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2012, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 19, 2012, 03:59:48 PM
Jez, for a game that is supposed to be a mans game, there's alot of diving to get frees on both sides! (But don't tell anybody, because it's a mans game. ;) )
You'll see plenty of the diving when Mayo play the Dubs!!
Ah sure you probably will, but that's not a mans game! ;)
Listening from the other side of the world - sounds like a phenomenal game. Years from now people will talk about this rivalry like they still do about the Kerry / Dublin one of the seventies. They'll be selling DVD's and books about it. I'll buy them all if I'm still around. Sounded like Kilkenny were the better side but gave away a soft goal and let Tipp right back in. It's a huge test for them now - a point down and Michael Rice down. It's great when referees let a game flow but I'd say there will be some criticism that McAllister hasn't done enough to protect the players, especially after Michael Rice's injury.
Was always going to start like this. Lads laying down markers and to be fair to the referee he let it go for a bit then booked one player and its basically stopped. Hurling resumes
If Lar spends his time trying to get Walsh sent off he will be left out of this game. Should spend his time winning ball and Tommy will have to go to him instead.
Looking good for the Kats now however Cummins should have done better on that goal.
Cats gettin feic all out of the ref!!!! P Maher---dirt machine!!
The Kats really turning on the style in this 2nd half 14 point lead :o
Dirt machine is right - should have walked
Refs a joke!
FT Kilkenny 4-24 tipperary 1-15
Jaysus! Is there any point showing up in 3 weeks? Kilkenny back to their awesome best. I felt before today that this was going to be our year. I still think we've a chance but I'm not too confident now.
About Padraig Maher I would say he's a brilliant , usually clean hurler who should have been sent off today. Tipp got a lot wrong today. Some bizarre behaviour from Lar and strange positioning of Bonner Maher at full-forward. Definitely the end of Declan Ryan's tenure.
Some second half by Kilkenny !!
Time the stick boys abolished the post of referee and let the sideline official count the scores.
That Ref was as well off not being there at all. Appalling fouling and belts let go and a yellow card for hitting a lad woth a hurl ::)
Time to scrap the referee in hurling. He only gets in the way!
Kilkenny will be expected to walk the final now.
At least the heat is off Galway!
Another handy one for us in the final.
Quote from: andoireabu on August 19, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
If Lar spends his time trying to get Walsh sent off he will be left out of this game. Should spend his time winning ball and Tommy will have to go to him instead.
Lar did a good job marking Tommy though! Kept him quiet for most of the game.
All over for Tipp. Ta Corcaigh agus Gaillimh ag teacht anois.
Just in the door, what a ridiculously impressive performance from Kilkenny - the hunger and intensity they have for winning never appears to dim.
Thought all the better, easier hurling in the first half, a well a the intensity, was coming from Kilkenny and to see them go five points up at one stage only to go in a point down was unusual to say the least. Lot of KK men I know were worried at that point that having failed to drive on from the five point lead, Tipp would sniff blood.
Incredible second half performance from Kilkenny though, just beat them out the gate with their tails between their legs. First time in a while they've been hurling at top speed from the get-go. Murphy, Joyce and Walsh in defence were sensational. Felt TJ and Fogarty were the best amongst the forwards. TJ comes in for a fair bit of stick about being soft, lazy and unable to do it when it matters but he really put his hand up there today and was outstanding. Buckley played very well when he came on as well.
As for Tipp, they were all anonymous in the second half, and Corbett was anonymous for the entire game. Maher should have walked, no question. He looked rattled early on and was losing the plot entirely. They'll be back as they're young and their minor team looked very impressive, the two wing backs in particular.
Final will be very interesting and I reckon Galway might be feeling more than a little edgy this eveing!
On a sour note, the KK fans on the Hill who wouldn't shut up during the minute's silence, with one individual audibly screaming "Tipperary w**ker" were an utter disgrace.
It should be a cracking final. Will the cats train on their own for the next 3 weeks or has the crisis been overcome?
What was Ryan's explanation for that brainless shit he had Corbett at today?
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2012, 09:15:37 PM
What was Ryan's explanation for that brainless shit he had Corbett at today?
Said it was a tactic that didn't work and something they'll have to take a look at. Disgraceful.
Was hilarious though, Walsh and Tyrell took their turns winding him up, all the time continuing to hurl. Corbett wasn't even looking at the play half the time.
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on August 19, 2012, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on August 19, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
If Lar spends his time trying to get Walsh sent off he will be left out of this game. Should spend his time winning ball and Tommy will have to go to him instead.
Lar did a good job marking Tommy though! Kept him quiet for most of the game.
Obviously Lar was to pick up Tommy but Kilkenny had other idea's and Tyrell was to pick up Lar. No one side wanted to back down, but the only winner was kilkenny in this exchange as Lar did very little bar upending the keeper for the Tipp goal.
Tipp line should have been doing more to get Lar into the game when those shenanigans were going on, not to mention placing Bonnar Maher in to full forward, he's a ball winner more so than a finisher and was needed more out the field..
Cody got his match ups right with TJ Reid, Fogarty getting serious joy off their opposite numbers before changes were made a weakness in Ryan I've always had doubts about.
The ref will be lambasted from pillar to post, but it was near on impossible for him to referee that game today, he had to apply a bit of common sense as opposed to the rule book or it would have ended up 10 a side. Maybe a few reds would have settled the encounter down, but there was loads of jabbing et all but no real dirty pulls that would have warranted a straight red. The one handed pull by Paudie Maher along the sideline, I'm not so sure about as a one handed pull isn't a foul any more than a two handed pull and possibly made it look worse. He did have a dig a Shefflin later on, but Shefflin knew he'd bigger fish to fry in the coming weeks and didn't respond (this time).
Thoroughly enjoyed the first half, but when Kilkenny pulled away in the second and emptied the bench with 10 minutes to go i nearly felt sorry for Tipp.
Galway have it all to do again, but I'm sure that's the way they'd like it to be.
"On a sour note, the KK fans on the Hill who wouldn't shut up during the minute's silence, with one individual audibly screaming "Tipperary w**ker" were an utter disgrace."
Watched the match on the tv... Camera zoomed in on the kk supporters a few times. My question.... Is there a serious obesity problem in the county? Their hurlers might be fit but some of their supporters could get of their behinds.
Ah, if people accept that Richie Hogan deserved to go against Limerick for a deliberate slap, then there's nobody can say Maher should have stayed on. He had a swing at Shefflin and missed and then a Benny Dunne style one that landed on Reid. Straight red, no two ways about it.
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2012, 09:23:43 PM
Ah, if people accept that Richie Hogan deserved to go against Limerick for a deliberate slap, then there's nobody can say Maher should have stayed on. He had a swing at Shefflin and missed and then a Benny Dunne style one that landed on Reid. Straight red, no two ways about it.
I was commenting on the first five minutes or so. The ref was bolloxed no matter what he did.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 19, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2012, 09:23:43 PM
Ah, if people accept that Richie Hogan deserved to go against Limerick for a deliberate slap, then there's nobody can say Maher should have stayed on. He had a swing at Shefflin and missed and then a Benny Dunne style one that landed on Reid. Straight red, no two ways about it.
I was commenting on the first five minutes or so. The ref was bolloxed no matter what he did.
That was largely handbags, no serious swinging or anything. Too much going on from both sides that I felt his approach to tell players involved in both large skirmishes (far left corner and midfield) to feck off and play the game was the correct one.
I was at the game today and just a few observations.
Tipp were totally out-thought, out-fought and out-played. However most of this must be attributed to the farcical tactics of the management but in fairness to the cats they were ruthless and the second half was exhibition stuff.
The Tipp puck-outs were not varied and repeatedly landed into the cats HB line where they had extra numbers due to the MFielders dropping deep. There was no movement from midfield to counter-act this.
The tipp full back line left oceans of space behind it for the cat forwards to run straight in on goal. Bonner and O,meara were played in the FF line. While Lar was obviously told to try and get between Pa Bourke and Walsh to protect him. Total madness. Half the time corbett wasn't even looking at the ball never mind for the ball. Mind you, you could see why Tipp tried to protect Bourke because any time Walsh got near him he clobbered him. I'm a great admirer of Walsh when he hurls but how he is not sent off more often is a mystery if today is anything to go by. Granted the ref should have sent Maher off for a wild swing when the game was over. the linemen and umpires really need to be more active.
In the end it was men against boys. this is the best hurling team I've ever seen and henry is so far the greatest I've had the joy of watching but i fear for hurling with all the off the ball stuff that was let go today and i'm not on about the 1st 5 minutes of sorting out which was to be expected. I had my son at the game and lets be honest I won't be encouraging him to pick up a hurl if he is expected to take the abuse that was dished out off the ball today.
The Tipp management seem to be getting a lot of stick after this.
And rightfully so. Ryan worked with a lot of these boys at minor but something tells me he feels the need to show that he is different from Liam Sheedy who was certainly a tough act to follow.
Corbett was took to the cleaners in last years AI final by KK and maybe he thought he would outwit them with something or other this time. He wasn't playing to his strengths and ballsed it up.
Quote from: splintered arse on August 19, 2012, 11:48:31 PM
I was at the game today and just a few observations.
Tipp were totally out-thought, out-fought and out-played. However most of this must be attributed to the farcical tactics of the management but in fairness to the cats they were ruthless and the second half was exhibition stuff.
The Tipp puck-outs were not varied and repeatedly landed into the cats HB line where they had extra numbers due to the MFielders dropping deep. There was no movement from midfield to counter-act this.
The tipp full back line left oceans of space behind it for the cat forwards to run straight in on goal. Bonner and O,meara were played in the FF line. While Lar was obviously told to try and get between Pa Bourke and Walsh to protect him. Total madness. Half the time corbett wasn't even looking at the ball never mind for the ball. Mind you, you could see why Tipp tried to protect Bourke because any time Walsh got near him he clobbered him. I'm a great admirer of Walsh when he hurls but how he is not sent off more often is a mystery if today is anything to go by. Granted the ref should have sent Maher off for a wild swing when the game was over. the linemen and umpires really need to be more active.
In the end it was men against boys. this is the best hurling team I've ever seen and henry is so far the greatest I've had the joy of watching but i fear for hurling with all the off the ball stuff that was let go today and i'm not on about the 1st 5 minutes of sorting out which was to be expected. I had my son at the game and lets be honest I won't be encouraging him to pick up a hurl if he is expected to take the abuse that was dished out off the ball today.
Bourke would have the reputation of being a bit soft and little Tommy obviously knew that but if you need a minder in an AI semi-final then you really shouldn't be there.
The Kilkenny fans on the Hill have been a problem for a while and I brought it up about them meself a few years ago. The thing about it is, they, like supporters from my own county, are a very small minority. A few years ago stewards had to move in and form a barrier between them and other supporters, after they arrived in late on AIF day and started pushing their way down from the back of the Hill. They need to be sorted out.
The other thing that amuses me about the Cat's is the amount of them that have Premium tickets and who sit inside watching the game on TV - FFS ! I brought a fella from Tipp one day and he stayed in and drank about seven pints of smithwicks and when I came in after the game he said "Shure t'would have been a great game to be at.
QuoteI'm a great admirer of Walsh when he hurls but how he is not sent off more often is a mystery if today is anything to go by. Granted the ref should have sent Maher off for a wild swing when the game was over. the linemen and umpires really need to be more active.
In the end it was men against boys. this is the best hurling team I've ever seen and henry is so far the greatest I've had the joy of watching but i fear for hurling with all the off the ball stuff that was let go today and i'm not on about the 1st 5 minutes of sorting out which was to be expected. I had my son at the game and lets be honest I won't be encouraging him to pick up a hurl if he is expected to take the abuse that was dished out off the ball today.
Ara it wasn't that bad. The first five minutes aside you have to expect a few wallops during any game of hurling. Watch next weeks basketball match and see the difference. Don't bother Tommy and Tommy won't bother you is what Cody would be thinking I'd say.
I thought it was a bit anarchic but without any realy malice. Pushing and shovign when holding hurls might look bad, but there's very rarely any physcial harm in it.
As for Walsh, he plays tough and hard, constantly on the edge, but how often has he ever pulled a really dirty stroke like Maher yesterday or Benny Dunne three years ago?!
Quote from: johnneycool on August 19, 2012, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on August 19, 2012, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on August 19, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
If Lar spends his time trying to get Walsh sent off he will be left out of this game. Should spend his time winning ball and Tommy will have to go to him instead.
Lar did a good job marking Tommy though! Kept him quiet for most of the game.
Obviously Lar was to pick up Tommy but Kilkenny had other idea's and Tyrell was to pick up Lar. No one side wanted to back down, but the only winner was kilkenny in this exchange as Lar did very little bar upending the keeper for the Tipp goal.
Tipp line should have been doing more to get Lar into the game when those shenanigans were going on, not to mention placing Bonnar Maher in to full forward, he's a ball winner more so than a finisher and was needed more out the field..
Cody got his match ups right with TJ Reid, Fogarty getting serious joy off their opposite numbers before changes were made a weakness in Ryan I've always had doubts about.
The ref will be lambasted from pillar to post, but it was near on impossible for him to referee that game today, he had to apply a bit of common sense as opposed to the rule book or it would have ended up 10 a side. Maybe a few reds would have settled the encounter down, but there was loads of jabbing et all but no real dirty pulls that would have warranted a straight red. The one handed pull by Paudie Maher along the sideline, I'm not so sure about as a one handed pull isn't a foul any more than a two handed pull and possibly made it look worse. He did have a dig a Shefflin later on, but Shefflin knew he'd bigger fish to fry in the coming weeks and didn't respond (this time).
Thoroughly enjoyed the first half, but when Kilkenny pulled away in the second and emptied the bench with 10 minutes to go i nearly felt sorry for Tipp.
Galway have it all to do again, but I'm sure that's the way they'd like it to be.
It would be great to win an all Ireland beating all of the old firm one after the other. But I'd settle for beating the cats twice any day.
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
I thought it was a bit anarchic but without any realy malice. Pushing and shovign when holding hurls might look bad, but there's very rarely any physcial harm in it.
As for Walsh, he plays tough and hard, constantly on the edge, but how often has he ever pulled a really dirty stroke like Maher yesterday or Benny Dunne three years ago?!
A good few times. Broke the hurl over a Wexford lads legs as he was going away from him was a standout one. Tommy is cute enough and was messing around with Dunnes helmet before Benny let fly at him.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 20, 2012, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
I thought it was a bit anarchic but without any realy malice. Pushing and shovign when holding hurls might look bad, but there's very rarely any physcial harm in it.
As for Walsh, he plays tough and hard, constantly on the edge, but how often has he ever pulled a really dirty stroke like Maher yesterday or Benny Dunne three years ago?!
A good few times. Broke the hurl over a Wexford lads legs as he was going away from him was a standout one. Tommy is cute enough and was messing around with Dunnes helmet before Benny let fly at him.
That one gets trotted out quite a bit. Even if true (I'm not saying it's not), there's a world of difference between, as you say "being cute", and letting fly like Dunne or Maher.
People were screaming that Walsh should have been sent off last year when the ref got a cut nose. There were about ten hurls flailing about, nothing particularly vicious. Walsh's was the on that maged to catch the ref, so immeidately the cry goes up that he should have been dismissed.
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 11:01:21 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 20, 2012, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
I thought it was a bit anarchic but without any realy malice. Pushing and shovign when holding hurls might look bad, but there's very rarely any physcial harm in it.
As for Walsh, he plays tough and hard, constantly on the edge, but how often has he ever pulled a really dirty stroke like Maher yesterday or Benny Dunne three years ago?!
A good few times. Broke the hurl over a Wexford lads legs as he was going away from him was a standout one. Tommy is cute enough and was messing around with Dunnes helmet before Benny let fly at him.
That one gets trotted out quite a bit. Even if true (I'm not saying it's not), there's a world of difference between, as you say "being cute", and letting fly like Dunne or Maher.
People were screaming that Walsh should have been sent off last year when the ref got a cut nose. There were about ten hurls flailing about, nothing particularly vicious. Walsh's was the on that maged to catch the ref, so immeidately the cry goes up that he should have been dismissed.
It does get trotted out quite a bit because it beggared belief that he didn't even see a yellow for it.
Little Tommy has led a charmed life with referee's IMO.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 20, 2012, 09:41:22 AM
The Kilkenny fans on the Hill have been a problem for a while and I brought it up about them meself a few years ago. The thing about it is, they, like supporters from my own county, are a very small minority. A few years ago stewards had to move in and form a barrier between them and other supporters, after they arrived in late on AIF day and started pushing their way down from the back of the Hill. They need to be sorted out.
The other thing that amuses me about the Cat's is the amount of them that have Premium tickets and who sit inside watching the game on TV - FFS ! I brought a fella from Tipp one day and he stayed in and drank about seven pints of smithwicks and when I came in after the game he said "Shure t'would have been a great game to be at.
QuoteI'm a great admirer of Walsh when he hurls but how he is not sent off more often is a mystery if today is anything to go by. Granted the ref should have sent Maher off for a wild swing when the game was over. the linemen and umpires really need to be more active.
In the end it was men against boys. this is the best hurling team I've ever seen and henry is so far the greatest I've had the joy of watching but i fear for hurling with all the off the ball stuff that was let go today and i'm not on about the 1st 5 minutes of sorting out which was to be expected. I had my son at the game and lets be honest I won't be encouraging him to pick up a hurl if he is expected to take the abuse that was dished out off the ball today.
Ara it wasn't that bad. The first five minutes aside you have to expect a few wallops during any game of hurling. Watch next weeks basketball match and see the difference. Don't bother Tommy and Tommy won't bother you is what Cody would be thinking I'd say.
Was in Kilkenny town last AIF day having a few pints and watching the game. 2 locals started boxing at the front door of the pub and it spilled outon to the street, a few others got involved and proceeded to pull the metal poles from the partition around the outside tables and beat each other with them. One guy was knocked out cold and others well cut up. another eejit proceeded to throw magners bottles through the front windows and he wasn't fighting :o.
We got out of there sharpish.
Quote from: hardstation on August 20, 2012, 11:15:02 AM
He threw the stick back at Corbett more than once yesterday. Not hard enough, if you ask me though.
What was the story with Corbett coming out late for the second half? Was that more "tactics" or was he just caught short?!
Quote from: johnneycool on August 20, 2012, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 11:01:21 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 20, 2012, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
I thought it was a bit anarchic but without any realy malice. Pushing and shovign when holding hurls might look bad, but there's very rarely any physcial harm in it.
As for Walsh, he plays tough and hard, constantly on the edge, but how often has he ever pulled a really dirty stroke like Maher yesterday or Benny Dunne three years ago?!
A good few times. Broke the hurl over a Wexford lads legs as he was going away from him was a standout one. Tommy is cute enough and was messing around with Dunnes helmet before Benny let fly at him.
That one gets trotted out quite a bit. Even if true (I'm not saying it's not), there's a world of difference between, as you say "being cute", and letting fly like Dunne or Maher.
People were screaming that Walsh should have been sent off last year when the ref got a cut nose. There were about ten hurls flailing about, nothing particularly vicious. Walsh's was the on that maged to catch the ref, so immeidately the cry goes up that he should have been dismissed.
It does get trotted out quite a bit because it beggared belief that he didn't even see a yellow for it.
Little Tommy has led a charmed life with referee's IMO.
I'd agree. Sure every time you see a rerun of a Corbett goal 2 years ago all you can see is Walsh's hurl flying at him.
The helmet pulling stroke which Dunne lost the rag at was shocking.
He's absolutely brilliant but wish he would cut that stuff out - he can play without it.
Tipperary tactics were shocking yesterday as already talked about. Corbett could have been a real threat and instead he was just a joke. To come out of retirement for that was a waste of time.
I had to laugh at Maher too - always riling up. He turned round at one point and it was King Henry. He didn't shift him so handily!
People talk about conditioning with football teams - you'll not get much better than that KK team. The main difference in my view was how physical they were rather than, just, pure hurling. Tipp also have slipped this past few years for some reason. With a young(ish) team that shouldn't really be happening.
Paul Curran should have been sent off for chucking the hurl at Reid yesterday, and Tipperary somehow got a free when one of their players ripped Richie Powers helmet off by the face guard. Still dunno why the free was given against him as he wasn't holding onto the ball or laying on top of it. Maher should have also seen red for his pull.
Things must be very brónach in the home of hurling today. It is a long time since the blue and gold were pasted by 18 points by their neighbours.
Unreal atmosphere at the start of the match in Croker yesterday, especially when the melees started. Can't remember the last time I experienced noise like it. The only black mark on the day were the KK "fans" on the Hill. Shame on them, at the time I presumed it was lads coming in who wouldn't have been aware of the minute's silence.
The Lar and Tommy Walsh sideshow became fairly evident to us early on. I'd love to know what Lar was saying because he had the helmet turned in towards him any time I checked in on them. To be fair to Tommy he didn't take the bait or adjust his line of vision once from the game. He was lucky though not to be spotted doing a "Ritchie Hogan" early on. He got a fair amount of mentions in the queue for the jacks at half time anyway. I wonder how staged Lars late introduction to the second half was as it coincided with Tommy being near the tunnel and he gave him an almighty dunt.
Was disappointed KK pulled away in the second half, nobody saw that coming at ht. My MOTM was Brian Hogan or Hogie as the man behind kept roaring, KK are a different team with him holding the center. Rice will be a big loss at midfield the next day although Buckley did well when he came in. Can only see a KK win at this moment in time. Galway better be hoping there'll be more than hurls broken in Nolan Park in the next few weeks.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 20, 2012, 02:16:17 PM
Unreal atmosphere at the start of the match in Croker yesterday, especially when the melees started. Can't remember the last time I experienced noise like it. The only black mark on the day were the KK "fans" on the Hill. Shame on them, at the time I presumed it was lads coming in who wouldn't have been aware of the minute's silence.
The Lar and Tommy Walsh sideshow became fairly evident to us early on. I'd love to know what Lar was saying because he had the helmet turned in towards him any time I checked in on them. To be fair to Tommy he didn't take the bait or adjust his line of vision once from the game. He was lucky though not to be spotted doing a "Ritchie Hogan" early on. He got a fair amount of mentions in the queue for the jacks at half time anyway. I wonder how staged Lars late introduction to the second half was as it coincided with Tommy being near the tunnel and he gave him an almighty dunt.
Was disappointed KK pulled away in the second half, nobody saw that coming at ht. My MOTM was Brian Hogan or Hogie as the man behind kept roaring, KK are a different team with him holding the center. Rice will be a big loss at midfield the next day although Buckley did well when he came in. Can only see a KK win at this moment in time. Galway better be hoping there'll be more than hurls broken in Nolan Park in the next few weeks.
dickheads.
And for the first time ever I saw a row at a gaa match. On the hill as well, in the vicinity of them bucks. There were about 9 or 10 involved, and it was harmless enough, but there were a fair few punches thrown before sanity intervened and lads were escorted away by friends. The Cops and Stewards arrived on the scene only 10 minutes late.
Dickheads is right. Was the row shortly after the catcalling? You'd have trouble keeping your composure if you were in the vicinity of that, whether from the opposition supporters or your own.
I mentioned on another thread that the Munster final in 84 was the lowest I've felt as a Tipperary supporter and it was up to yesterday afternoon.
First off congrats to Kilkenny, the finest team to have played the game in my lifetime, unbelievable levels of skill, physicality and drive, in years to come we will look back on this set of players and consider ourselves lucky to have seen them in the flesh.
Babs wrote in his book that winning an All Ireland changes players, some players it changes for the better, the feeling of winning becomes addictive and drives them to redouble their efforts , some players it changes for the worse, a Celtic cross in their arse pocket and the adulation of the masses is enough for them, it makes them "soft" unwilling to put the effort in and unfortunately its difficult to spot which camp a player falls into until they have won their All Ireland, i would say their are a good few of this current Tipp team who are in the latter camp, whoever takes over from Deccie and co next year will need to make significant changes to the panel.
Its too early for a post mortem, i will have a look at the recording tonight, i doubt it will get any better on the second viewing, one thing though, i think some people on here and elsewhere are being a little harsh on Deccie and Lar for the tactics yesterday, ok it didn't work but as they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, i wouldn't be too hard on the management for trying something different.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 20, 2012, 04:16:04 PM
I mentioned on another thread that the Munster final in 84 was the lowest I've felt as a Tipperary supporter and it was up to yesterday afternoon.
First off congrats to Kilkenny, the finest team to have played the game in my lifetime, unbelievable levels of skill, physicality and drive, in years to come we will look back on this set of players and consider ourselves lucky to have seen them in the flesh.
Babs wrote in his book that winning an All Ireland changes players, some players it changes for the better, the feeling of winning becomes addictive and drives them to redouble their efforts , some players it changes for the worse, a Celtic cross in their arse pocket and the adulation of the masses is enough for them, it makes them "soft" unwilling to put the effort in and unfortunately its difficult to spot which camp a player falls into until they have won their All Ireland, i would say their are a good few of this current Tipp team who are in the latter camp, whoever takes over from Deccie and co next year will need to make significant changes to the panel.
Its too early for a post mortem, i will have a look at the recording tonight, i doubt it will get any better on the second viewing, one thing though, i think some people on here and elsewhere are being a little harsh on Deccie and Lar for the tactics yesterday, ok it didn't work but as they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, i wouldn't be too hard on the management for trying something different.
I'm all on for trying something different, but when it stops being effective (basing it on Lar's assumption that it was working ok in the first half) then you've got to call a halt to it and go for plan B.
The failure to see that it wasn't working is what I'd be miffed at.
You have a point about lads winning a celtic cross and that it changes them and that's maybe affected Tipp in terms of the team that won in 2010 maybe had their heads full of shíte about how great they were and the future was theirs.
Contrast that with someone in Kilkenny with one celtic cross, they're almost nobodies, 'another bale on the trailer' to coin a phase trotted out by John Power once. One Celtic cross isn't enough for a Kilkenny hurler, you need three, four or five to even get a look in as a great hurler and therein lies the difference.
Another thing, this isn't the same Kilkenny team that started it back in the early 00's. Barring the odd exception like JJ delaney, Tommy Walsh, Shefflin, this team has changed along the way and will possibly need to evolve again but that doesn't look to be beyond them either after yesterday.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 20, 2012, 04:16:04 PM
I mentioned on another thread that the Munster final in 84 was the lowest I've felt as a Tipperary supporter and it was up to yesterday afternoon.
First off congrats to Kilkenny, the finest team to have played the game in my lifetime, unbelievable levels of skill, physicality and drive, in years to come we will look back on this set of players and consider ourselves lucky to have seen them in the flesh.
Babs wrote in his book that winning an All Ireland changes players, some players it changes for the better, the feeling of winning becomes addictive and drives them to redouble their efforts , some players it changes for the worse, a Celtic cross in their arse pocket and the adulation of the masses is enough for them, it makes them "soft" unwilling to put the effort in and unfortunately its difficult to spot which camp a player falls into until they have won their All Ireland, i would say their are a good few of this current Tipp team who are in the latter camp, whoever takes over from Deccie and co next year will need to make significant changes to the panel.
Its too early for a post mortem, i will have a look at the recording tonight, i doubt it will get any better on the second viewing, one thing though, i think some people on here and elsewhere are being a little harsh on Deccie and Lar for the tactics yesterday, ok it didn't work but as they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, i wouldn't be too hard on the management for trying something different.
HoH
It is very hard to win 2 all Irelands and the country will forever have the gratitude of Tipp hurling for the 2010 final.
Losing like that is hard but Tipp have a decent record underage and they'll be back.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 20, 2012, 03:19:29 PM
d**kheads is right. Was the row shortly after the catcalling? You'd have trouble keeping your composure if you were in the vicinity of that, whether from the opposition supporters or your own.
No the row was nearer the end of the game. I suspect it was related to OTT slagging off of Tipp lads that wasn't appreciated. That was the depressing thing for me, it was fans from opposing sides throwing punches.
Very silly tactic by Tipp to put so much work into targetting Walsh.
He might be a timber merchant, but he definitely isn't an easily to wind up hot head.
There is a difference and the Tipp management failed to appreciate it.
If they really wanted to get a player sent off, then perhaps they should have targetted a very non-obvious player. Someone who isn't so experienced at walking the disiplinary tightrope at I/C level.
Like how would a relatively inexperienced player like Kieran Joyce have reacted to the same level of provaction?
2 years ago against Kilkenny, Tipp had a very advanced attacking gameplan of forwards moving off the ball with great angled runs, dragging backs out of positions and creating space.
It was sad to see what they were reduced to on Sunday.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on August 20, 2012, 04:16:04 PM
I mentioned on another thread that the Munster final in 84 was the lowest I've felt as a Tipperary supporter and it was up to yesterday afternoon.
First off congrats to Kilkenny, the finest team to have played the game in my lifetime, unbelievable levels of skill, physicality and drive, in years to come we will look back on this set of players and consider ourselves lucky to have seen them in the flesh.
Babs wrote in his book that winning an All Ireland changes players, some players it changes for the better, the feeling of winning becomes addictive and drives them to redouble their efforts , some players it changes for the worse, a Celtic cross in their arse pocket and the adulation of the masses is enough for them, it makes them "soft" unwilling to put the effort in and unfortunately its difficult to spot which camp a player falls into until they have won their All Ireland, i would say their are a good few of this current Tipp team who are in the latter camp, whoever takes over from Deccie and co next year will need to make significant changes to the panel.
Its too early for a post mortem, i will have a look at the recording tonight, i doubt it will get any better on the second viewing, one thing though, i think some people on here and elsewhere are being a little harsh on Deccie and Lar for the tactics yesterday, ok it didn't work but as they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, i wouldn't be too hard on the management for trying something different.
Tipp can take a lot of comfort from the performance of their minors. Some serious talent there - Heffernan, Hamill, Fox, Mcgrath , Cahilll , McCarthy. Their stick passing was beautiful - pinpoint every time. There will be a few retirements and a change of manager for the seniors and it's no harm. Fair play to Ryan for taking on the job when he did. It was brave but Tipp have gone badly backwards in the last 2 years.
It has been very hard for every other hurling county over the last 7 years to live with Kilkenny.
I feel sorry for Tipp supporters - I was at the 2006 Galway-KK match in Thurles when I thought we had a chance of winning an Ireland after 2005 and we were beaten out the door .
KK are coming to the end of their run and there are all Irelands to be won over the next few years - hopefully Offaly, Wexford, Clare, Dublin , Limerick Waterford and the rest can step up the the plate. Tipp will always be around but we need to get the all irelands spread around a bit.
KILKENNY ARE quietly incensed that the incident in Sunday's All-Ireland hurling semi-final which resulted in the severe hand injury to midfielder Michael Rice – now virtually certain to be ruled out of the final – looks set not to result in any sanction.
County board secretary Ned Quinn has confirmed that Rice will undergo an operation tomorrow to reset several broken bones in his hand, and also examine the exact extent of tendon damage, which could yet require further surgery.
But the nature of Rice's injury is only part of their alarm in the aftermath of Sunday's comprehensive victory over close rivals Tipperary.
The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) have reviewed the video recording of the game to determine what, if any, further sanctions may be handed out in light of the several scenes of brawling and confrontation that marred the early stages of the match, and some later, more isolated incidents.
However, any further action has been deemed "unlikely", according to a Croke Park source, against either team.
Rice's injury was sustained in the 18th minute, when Tipperary wing back Pádraic Maher attempted a one-handed tackle with his hurl, along the sideline in front of the Hogan Stand.
Kilkenny manager Brian Cody was in close proximity of the incident and was clearly furious, although Cork referee Cathal McAllister let it go unpunished.
Quinn only went as far as to express his "surprise" that this wasn't picked up by the referee, and declined to comment further on the incident, or the need for some sort of sanction.
"We'll leave that to whoever looks after it," he said.
But Quinn didn't disguise his shock at the nature of the injury. "I'm not sure of the exact medical implications," he said, "nor would I like to discus that, but the hand is broken anyway, we know that for certain, badly broken."
It's almost certain too that Rice will now miss the All-Ireland final showdown against Galway in just under three weeks – although Quinn stopped short of making that a definite.
"Look, I would never rule a fella out. But I am using that phrase very carefully, because it is highly unlikely that he'll play in the All-Ireland.
"I just wouldn't rule a fella out altogether.
"How soon he'll be back is something I just don't know. I've spoken to Michael on a number of occasions, and how do you think he's taking it?
"Michael is one of those people that lives for hurling, so naturally he's devastated."
A statement on the Kilkenny website last night confirmed as much, adding that "this is most unfortunate for the Carrickshock clubman, who had shown an excellent return to form having recovered from injury earlier in the season".
Sunday's game was in fact the first time this summer that Kilkenny's first choice midfield pairing of Rice and Michael Fennelly was in operation, as Fennelly was just back from a knee injury.
Cillian Buckley, who replaced Rice on Sunday, should take over for the final should Rice miss out as expected, although Buckley is back in action this Saturday evening as part of the Kilkenny under-21 team that also takes on Galway in the All-Ireland under-21 semi-final – a timely appetiser to the senior showdown.
While Tipperary may be escaping any further sanctioning on top of an already embarrassing defeat, county board chairman Seán Nugent will sit down with manager Declan Ryan and his backroom team over the coming days, the expectation being that their two-year term will not be extended.
Nugent has admitted that following in the footsteps of Liam Sheedy and Eamon O'Shea was always going to be a difficult task.
"Whoever came in after them (Sheedy and O'Shea) was going to be on a fairly sticky wicket, to emulate them and what they achieved," he said.
"But they (Ryan and Tommy Dunne) were brave men to come in and do it."
Have to agree KK might just be be past their best but they still have unparalelled resolve when the tough questions are asked. Sheedy and O'Shea brought a new freshness to Tipp in 2010 and pulled out a level of performance which I think they knew could not be sustained and Ryan may not have been the right man even to try to take them forward from this.
As usual the cycle will be broken and who knows who the next dominant force might be?
A good article in the Irish Times.
It may be time for hurling to be more tightly controlled by referees.
Some of the exchanges are getting ugly.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0822/1224322660315.html
Rules of the game there to protect the players
SEÁN MORAN
ON GAELIC GAMES: The failure to apply the rules of the game and the poor sportsmanship on view at Croke Park last Sunday did the game of hurling a disservice
HISTORY REPEATS itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. We know Karl Marx couldn't have been speaking of the recently perennial Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry because last Sunday was the third successive repeat and it ended in both tragedy for Tipperary and farce for everyone else.
Tragedy is generally a bit strong a description of anything in the sporting arena but Tipp's decline since 2010 has many elements of the classically tragic: hubris, falling from high estate and resulting calamities. Declan Ryan, Tommy Dunne and Michael Gleeson have had an unhappy two years and the one thing they can pass on to their successors is radically readjusted expectations.
But Ryan and Dunne were great players for the county and made significant contributions to winning All-Irelands on the field. They were plausible appointments and it didn't work out but for no more than the most basic expenses they signed up for a world of anxiety, frustration and accountability.
When the horror show had concluded on Sunday, Ryan still came out to face the television cameras, to give his interview and – on a day when we heard the adjective used in its peculiar GAA meaning of belligerent and disorderly – to accept with 'manly' forbearance the responsibility for all that had gone wrong.
There were indeed farcical aspects – and by this stage the funny photo-shopped pictures of Tommy Walsh and Lar Corbett have begun to proliferate on the internet – of Tipperary's defeat but none plumbed the depths of the disciplinary farce.
It wasn't that there was a sustained series of shocking fouls but the undercurrent of nastiness and poor sportsmanship was palpable. The widespread scatters in the opening minutes – including symbolically the two captains getting stuck into each other – were calmed down but only one player, Walsh, was punished, with a yellow card.
Yet there is a Category II infraction in the playing rules, at 5.6: "To contribute to a melee". It's punishable by a red card. Might it have been harsh to send players off for what happened? Perhaps, but rules are there to regulate behaviour and by taking no action against virtually everyone involved, referee Cathal McAllister effectively deemed the carry-on acceptable.
Even a few yellow cards would have put players on notice and forced them to risk dismissal if their behaviour didn't improve.
The referee was credited with reasserting his control of the match but more blatant omissions were to follow. Pádraic Maher astonishingly got a yellow card for clearly pulling across TJ Reid but in the first half his wild, one-handed pull ended up breaking Michael Rice's hand and putting him out of an All-Ireland final.
Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, whose high threshold for 'physicality' has been publicly expressed on many occasions, didn't appear at the time to regard this stroke as 'manly' and was visibly agitated on the sideline.
The incident summarised one of the problematic attitudes in hurling. It's all very well to say that the damage which may force a player out of the biggest occasion of the year was 'accidental' and 'unintentional' but where is the game if it has become a virtue that you didn't intend to injure an opponent? Rule 5.14 outlines the Category III, red card infraction: "To inflict an injury recklessly".
In other words we don't have to categorise Maher – or anyone else – as a "dirty player" in order to decide he has a duty of care to opponents. McAllister isn't the issue here. He may be an official with a reputation for 'letting play flow' but in this he appears to be part of a contemporary preference.
One leading hurling referee remarked privately that he believed he and his colleagues were at fault for allowing too much to go unpunished in elite level, intercounty matches but he said that none of the game's stake holders – spectators, players, managers and administrators – appeared to have any appetite for change.
It's hard not to have sympathy for referees in this environment. Ask yourself what importance is attached to the virtues of discipline and being determined to play the ball and nothing else.
For any of the 50,220 in Croke Park on Sunday, the disturbing scale of the early confrontations were obvious. For those watching the live broadcast the issue was discussed as follows at half-time by the RTÉ panel of Cyril Farrell, Ger Loughnane and Tomás Mulcahy.
Having described the exchanges as "ferocious" Loughnane went on to say: "The danger is that someone will analyse this in a video and start blaming people for what went on and see who hit who. That's rubbish. Those things happen at the start of a game. There's no one injured – hard physical exchanges and the game settled down."
Mulcahy added: "I think the referee was right at that stage because if he was going to flash yellow cards all over we'd have had no teams. At times the referee Cathal McAllister – he's from Cork and he's known for not blowing the whistle – you'd wonder was there a pea at all in the whistle because at times he just let the play go and it has made for the first half."
Given the reach of the national broadcaster and the influence of its analysts on perceptions, who'd have wanted to be a referee, who did his job and punished indiscipline according to rule – "rubbish", according to an All-Ireland winning manager – and dramatically affected the dynamic of the game? Only Farrell brought any sense of perspective to the issue, pointing out that you can't apply the rules everywhere else and then dispense with them in Croke Park.
It's not just enforcement. It's over two years since Tipperary's now-retired Declan Fanning required more than 20 stitches after having being effectively attacked with his own headgear. Still there has been no reform of the rule that makes it merely a yellow-card infraction to interfere with an opponent's faceguard – despite the fact that this now routinely happens. For instance Corbett on Sunday was sporting a cut on his cheek within four minutes. In the second half Kilkenny's Richie Power had his headgear tugged off – and ended up conceding a free.
Shaking someone's head around in a helmet risks cuts and worse, neck injury. It is a ridiculously dangerous practice and laying a finger on an opponent's headgear should be a strict liability red card.
As a nation we've been brought to our knees by failure to respect rules and the willingness of some to ignore regulation that doesn't suit their interests. The GAA should be making sure that the national game doesn't continue to walk the same path.
Quote from: The Wedger on August 22, 2012, 10:43:07 AM
A good article in the Irish Times.
It may be time for hurling to be more tightly controlled by referees.
Some of the exchanges are getting ugly.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0822/1224322660315.html
Rules of the game there to protect the players
SEÁN MORAN
ON GAELIC GAMES: The failure to apply the rules of the game and the poor sportsmanship on view at Croke Park last Sunday did the game of hurling a disservice
HISTORY REPEATS itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. We know Karl Marx couldn't have been speaking of the recently perennial Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry because last Sunday was the third successive repeat and it ended in both tragedy for Tipperary and farce for everyone else.
Tragedy is generally a bit strong a description of anything in the sporting arena but Tipp's decline since 2010 has many elements of the classically tragic: hubris, falling from high estate and resulting calamities. Declan Ryan, Tommy Dunne and Michael Gleeson have had an unhappy two years and the one thing they can pass on to their successors is radically readjusted expectations.
But Ryan and Dunne were great players for the county and made significant contributions to winning All-Irelands on the field. They were plausible appointments and it didn't work out but for no more than the most basic expenses they signed up for a world of anxiety, frustration and accountability.
When the horror show had concluded on Sunday, Ryan still came out to face the television cameras, to give his interview and – on a day when we heard the adjective used in its peculiar GAA meaning of belligerent and disorderly – to accept with 'manly' forbearance the responsibility for all that had gone wrong.
There were indeed farcical aspects – and by this stage the funny photo-shopped pictures of Tommy Walsh and Lar Corbett have begun to proliferate on the internet – of Tipperary's defeat but none plumbed the depths of the disciplinary farce.
It wasn't that there was a sustained series of shocking fouls but the undercurrent of nastiness and poor sportsmanship was palpable. The widespread scatters in the opening minutes – including symbolically the two captains getting stuck into each other – were calmed down but only one player, Walsh, was punished, with a yellow card.
Yet there is a Category II infraction in the playing rules, at 5.6: "To contribute to a melee". It's punishable by a red card. Might it have been harsh to send players off for what happened? Perhaps, but rules are there to regulate behaviour and by taking no action against virtually everyone involved, referee Cathal McAllister effectively deemed the carry-on acceptable.
Even a few yellow cards would have put players on notice and forced them to risk dismissal if their behaviour didn't improve.
The referee was credited with reasserting his control of the match but more blatant omissions were to follow. Pádraic Maher astonishingly got a yellow card for clearly pulling across TJ Reid but in the first half his wild, one-handed pull ended up breaking Michael Rice's hand and putting him out of an All-Ireland final.
Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, whose high threshold for 'physicality' has been publicly expressed on many occasions, didn't appear at the time to regard this stroke as 'manly' and was visibly agitated on the sideline.
The incident summarised one of the problematic attitudes in hurling. It's all very well to say that the damage which may force a player out of the biggest occasion of the year was 'accidental' and 'unintentional' but where is the game if it has become a virtue that you didn't intend to injure an opponent? Rule 5.14 outlines the Category III, red card infraction: "To inflict an injury recklessly".
In other words we don't have to categorise Maher – or anyone else – as a "dirty player" in order to decide he has a duty of care to opponents. McAllister isn't the issue here. He may be an official with a reputation for 'letting play flow' but in this he appears to be part of a contemporary preference.
One leading hurling referee remarked privately that he believed he and his colleagues were at fault for allowing too much to go unpunished in elite level, intercounty matches but he said that none of the game's stake holders – spectators, players, managers and administrators – appeared to have any appetite for change.
It's hard not to have sympathy for referees in this environment. Ask yourself what importance is attached to the virtues of discipline and being determined to play the ball and nothing else.
For any of the 50,220 in Croke Park on Sunday, the disturbing scale of the early confrontations were obvious. For those watching the live broadcast the issue was discussed as follows at half-time by the RTÉ panel of Cyril Farrell, Ger Loughnane and Tomás Mulcahy.
Having described the exchanges as "ferocious" Loughnane went on to say: "The danger is that someone will analyse this in a video and start blaming people for what went on and see who hit who. That's rubbish. Those things happen at the start of a game. There's no one injured – hard physical exchanges and the game settled down."
Mulcahy added: "I think the referee was right at that stage because if he was going to flash yellow cards all over we'd have had no teams. At times the referee Cathal McAllister – he's from Cork and he's known for not blowing the whistle – you'd wonder was there a pea at all in the whistle because at times he just let the play go and it has made for the first half."
Given the reach of the national broadcaster and the influence of its analysts on perceptions, who'd have wanted to be a referee, who did his job and punished indiscipline according to rule – "rubbish", according to an All-Ireland winning manager – and dramatically affected the dynamic of the game? Only Farrell brought any sense of perspective to the issue, pointing out that you can't apply the rules everywhere else and then dispense with them in Croke Park.
It's not just enforcement. It's over two years since Tipperary's now-retired Declan Fanning required more than 20 stitches after having being effectively attacked with his own headgear. Still there has been no reform of the rule that makes it merely a yellow-card infraction to interfere with an opponent's faceguard – despite the fact that this now routinely happens. For instance Corbett on Sunday was sporting a cut on his cheek within four minutes. In the second half Kilkenny's Richie Power had his headgear tugged off – and ended up conceding a free.
Shaking someone's head around in a helmet risks cuts and worse, neck injury. It is a ridiculously dangerous practice and laying a finger on an opponent's headgear should be a strict liability red card.
As a nation we've been brought to our knees by failure to respect rules and the willingness of some to ignore regulation that doesn't suit their interests. The GAA should be making sure that the national game doesn't continue to walk the same path.
Cody said it was good manly stuff - that's good enough for me.
Quote from: orangeman on August 22, 2012, 11:04:09 AM
Cody said it was good manly stuff - that's good enough for me.
It seems to be an article of faith in football counties that the game would be better if only it were reffed in the manner of hurling matches. Be careful what you wish for.
Not sure deiseach, I think the commonest refrain in 'football' counties is that they would like football to be reffed with the same level of 'common sense' as hurling. Sunday might have been a step too far though.
If I were from Tipp I'd have been embarassed by the "circus" that went on last Sunday too - this piece is from the Independent.
TIPPERARY legend Len Gaynor has described the All-Ireland semi-final sideshow involving Lar Corbett at Croke Park last Sunday as "embarrassing".
Gaynor, who managed the Premier County from 1996-98, has also advocated a return to "the core values of Tipperary hurling" -- and is highly critical of the tactics employed against Kilkenny.
The two-time All-Ireland SHC medallist (1965 and 1971) insisted that "tactics can be overdone" in the modern game and believes Tipp should not be "obsessed by the opposition".
"It was obvious they thought this out a bit and thought that it was going to work," he said. "They were going to change Lar on Tommy Walsh and Pa Bourke on Jackie Tyrrell but Kilkenny were never going to allow that to happen.
"We all knew that from last year's final that Jackie was going to be on Lar. That puts Lar in the best possible position for Tipperary but instead of that, they were going around in circles and that was embarrassing alright.
"It looked unreal -- two Tipp players taken completely out of the game. They couldn't concentrate and were just roaming around, jostling around, digging, dragging, pushing and shoving. Kilkenny were doing it as well but it looked wrong and it was not effective for Tipp. It misfired badly.
"I think we need to get back to the core values of Tipperary hurling. The basics are bravery and courage -- bravery of mind to go and execute the job that you've trained to do, not to be obsessed by the opposition.
"Courage to put that in place and if things go wrong, courage to stand up.
"Tipperary teams have been beaten as often as anybody else but standing up to the opposition and giving their best for as long and as hard as they can is what we ask for as spectators."
Tipperary County Board chairman Sean Nugent described the numerous episodes involving Corbett, Bourke, Walsh and Tyrrell as a "circus".
Nugent said: "I don't think there was a tactic involved in it at all. Lar would be on Tommy Walsh -- he (Corbett) was picked there at No 12. Things happened on the field after that -- Jackie Tyrrell wanted to come out to mark him (Corbett) and that kind of circus that went on seriously disappointed me. I've never seen it before."
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2012, 11:27:58 AM
Not sure deiseach, I think the commonest refrain in 'football' counties is that they would like football to be reffed with the same level of 'common sense' as hurling. Sunday might have been a step too far though.
Last Sunday is what you get when you ref according to common sense. Cyril Farrell was right. Enforce the rule book and leave common sense to Daily Mail editorials.
Not true. Brian Gavin, Barry Kelly and most others can let a game flow without it descending into anarchy.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2012, 11:45:54 AM
Not true. Brian Gavin, Barry Kelly and most others can let a game flow without it descending into anarchy.
Unless there is a northern team involved in which case he is almost choking on his whistle to blow frees against them, which you see him waving on the next week.
Farrell was right you cant have a set of rules for one level of the game and then another for club and juvenile levels. Be some craic at the next u14 match if 6 or 8 of the young lads are laying into each other with shoulders and jabbing each other with the hurls. In this case the clubs would be hauled over the coals for it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2012, 11:45:54 AM
Not true. Brian Gavin, Barry Kelly and most others can let a game flow without it descending into anarchy.
He's got the big gig in 3 weeks time.
I think we have well jumped the fence on the rule enforcement. I can't see a quick or easy return.
Look at the physique of the modern I/C player. The majority of the top teams are stocked up with several muscle bound tanks.
Because the game is now filled with a huge amount of smashes and collisions. The days of dispossessing a player by waiting for him to expose the sliotar and flick it away are long gone.
For starters, charging in possession and the thrown handpass are now the norm.
Therefore the main means of tackling tends to be to surround the ball carrier, put the spare arm around him,
haul him back and slow him down.
The cries of "it's a man's game" are mostly nonsense. Two players contesting a ball like express trains and not flinching is part of a man's game. Dragging back, frontal barging, jabbing hurley butts, grabbing face guards etc. are not manly.
I feel there is very appetite for change though. The is a code of non-criticism of hurling because of its disadvantaged status. It is a kind of racial minority within the GAA.
Also the current state of the game mostly suits the old order (maybe not so much Cork). Had a less successful county shot to prominence by pioneering these tactics, there would be uproar and an immediate clamour for change.
Galways running game in the 80s and Clare's high tempo hurling of the 90s seemed to irk the purists. However when the traditional counties do the same, it is clever, canny and further expanding the boundaries of the game.
+1 on NAG1's comments re Barry Kelly. Referees northern teams totally differently. Referees seems to be more in awe of the bigger sides or maybe they feel they have to give the crowd/tv audience what they want
Where do Tipp go from here ? They only beat Cork by a point in Munster this year and Cork are some way off the pace.
Even if they had stayed to within 3 points of the cats there would have been questions. And then the Kilkenny pasting on top of that.
Do they need a clearout and a fresh start with an infusion of young hurlers ?
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2012, 09:42:55 AM
Where do Tipp go from here ? They only beat Cork by a point in Munster this year and Cork are some way off the pace.
Even if they had stayed to within 3 points of the cats there would have been questions. And then the Kilkenny pasting on top of that.
Do they need a clearout and a fresh start with an infusion of young hurlers ?
O'Meara, Corbett and Kelly aside, i wouldn't have thought that was an old team with only Curran and Conor O'Mahony over 30, I could be wrong.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 07, 2012, 09:55:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2012, 09:42:55 AM
Where do Tipp go from here ? They only beat Cork by a point in Munster this year and Cork are some way off the pace.
Even if they had stayed to within 3 points of the cats there would have been questions. And then the Kilkenny pasting on top of that.
Do they need a clearout and a fresh start with an infusion of young hurlers ?
O'Meara, Corbett and Kelly aside, i wouldn't have thought that was an old team with only Curran and Conor O'Mahony over 30, I could be wrong.
Sometimes it's not about how old the players are.
Brian O'Meara is only 22 Johnney, Cummins is 37, Paul Curran is 30, Eoin Kelly is 30, John O'Brien is 30, Conor O'Mahoney is 28, Lar is 31 apart from the list above the rest of the panel are early to mid 20's.
I would have expected retirements but i reckon the manner of defeat will push most of the lads on the verge of retirement to postpone for another year, obviously the new managerial appointment will have a big bearing and if what I've heard over the last couple of days with regard to the appointment is correct then i don't see anyone retiring.
The new management team will be in a perfect position imho, a supremely talented bunch of hurlers who had their arses handed to them by their biggest rivals in their last game, 95% of the country writing them off and questioning their spirit and the other 5% losing faith rapidly, if what happened in the semi doesn't drive them on then they may as well throw their hat at it.
I will make a prediction here and now, if the new managerial appointment is the man i have heard it is then Tipp will collect Liam McCarthy next September.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 10:45:03 AM
Brian O'Meara is only 22 Johnney, Cummins is 37, Paul Curran is 30, Eoin Kelly is 30, John O'Brien is 30, Conor O'Mahoney is 28, Lar is 31 apart from the list above the rest of the panel are early to mid 20's.
I would have expected retirements but i reckon the manner of defeat will push most of the lads on the verge of retirement to postpone for another year, obviously the new managerial appointment will have a big bearing and if what I've heard over the last couple of days with regard to the appointment is correct then i don't see anyone retiring.
The new management team will be in a perfect position imho, a supremely talented bunch of hurlers who had their arses handed to them by their biggest rivals in their last game, 95% of the country writing them off and questioning their spirit and the other 5% losing faith rapidly, if what happened in the semi doesn't drive them on then they may as well throw their hat at it.
I will make a prediction here and now, if the new managerial appointment is the man i have heard it is then Tipp will collect Liam McCarthy next September.
Mean't to say Cummins there.
I thought you might have got him mixed up with Mullinahone Brian O'Meara Johnney ;)
Had a pint with two ex Tipp managers last week and over the course of the evening we put the world of Tipp hurling to rights, we were pretty much in agreement about the biggest issues facing the new man, namely.
Noel McGrath, what can we do with him ? Unbelievable ability, great awareness, great vision but no pace, I have argued for a while now that he will eventually be our centre back, maybe its time to try him there now, he wont do at centrefield, himself and Brendan Maher formed the greatest underage midfield partnership I've ever seen but the physicality and workrate required of a modern senior centrefielder is beyond him imho.
Brendan Maher, outstanding in 09/10 but patchy at best since, Brendan never seemed to recover since his ankle break, he was imho the hurler of the year in 2010, whether he is still affected by the injury i don't know but surely we have to find a way to get the best out of him, he plays in the forwards for Borris, maybe try him on one of the wings in the league, of course wing back is another option.
Shane McGrath, again outstanding in both 09 and 10 but patchy since, he was an excellent half back in his Fitzgibbon years, excellent fielder and strong for his body shape, his ability, or lack of , to get around the field anymore would be much less of an issue at half back, wont do as a forward as we saw in 2010 against Galway, i would say his place is under real threat next year unless he can rediscover his mojo.
Lar, what do we do with Lar, personally i would give him a free role to wander all over the forward line and beyond, he is too good, and too intelligent a hurler to limit imho, let him drag the slasher Tyrell around the park (into the refs eyeline preferably ;)), i will be throwing some of the kids inheritance on him being hurler of the year next year.
Seamie Callanan, Seamie, Seamie, supremely gifted, Eoin Kelly described him as having the best hands on the panel, but something missing, excellent in 09, dropped in 2010 but scored a couple of beauties when introduced in the final, obviously this year was a write off due originally to injury and then other "issues" but surely the new management have to find a way to mine the undoubted talent.
There are obviously lots of other issues which revolve around fitness, does Paul Curran have a full injury free season in him, if so then he is still the best full back in the country imho, likewise can Conor O'Mahoney shake off the niggling injuries that seem to blight him these days, he is utterly vital to Tipp, starting him with a broken toe against the cats was a huge mistake by management despite the players protestations that he was fine, we obviously also need a plan b for full back (Curran had a virus the week before the semi and surely wouldnt have played had we a viable alternative) if Curran succumbs to injury and in my opinion that plan b should be O'Mahoney, he was an outstanding underage full back and has all the attributes required.
Shane Bourke will push hard for a starting berth next year as will an injury free John O'Neill (is that an oxymoron,an injury free John O'Neill ! ), Gearoid Ryan will also push to regain his place, probably at the expense of Shane McGrath and hopefully Seamus Hennessy will finally be fit to start(restart ? he came on and scored in the 2010 final ) his senior career, all in all with the correct management team the future is far from gloomy.
Tipp had 3 all ireland finals in a row at a time when it was just themselves, Kilkenny and maybe Waherford in with a shout of winning. Cork are on the way back and Galway too and there are a few others following so there is likely to be an intensification of competition next year.
Jaysus Seafoid what has happened to Cork, six posts up the were way off the pace now they are challengers ;)
I agree though, i think Kilkenny will start to come back to the chasing pack over the next couple of years.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 03:24:39 PM
Jaysus Seafoid what has happened to Cork, six posts up the were way off the pace now they are challengers ;)
I agree though, i think Kilkenny will start to come back to the chasing pack over the next couple of years.
HoH - they are slightly ahead of Tipp, who are some way off the pace ;)
I remember Galway getting tanked by the cats in 06 after a decent enough season in 05 and thinking it would turn again in 07 with a new manager.
Best of luck next year but I think Tipp threw away at least one all Ireland with that team.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 12:14:23 PM
I thought you might have got him mixed up with Mullinahone Brian O'Meara Johnney ;)
Had a pint with two ex Tipp managers last week and over the course of the evening we put the world of Tipp hurling to rights, we were pretty much in agreement about the biggest issues facing the new man, namely.
Noel McGrath, what can we do with him ? Unbelievable ability, great awareness, great vision but no pace, I have argued for a while now that he will eventually be our centre back, maybe its time to try him there now, he wont do at centrefield, himself and Brendan Maher formed the greatest underage midfield partnership I've ever seen but the physicality and workrate required of a modern senior centrefielder is beyond him imho.
Brendan Maher, outstanding in 09/10 but patchy at best since, Brendan never seemed to recover since his ankle break, he was imho the hurler of the year in 2010, whether he is still affected by the injury i don't know but surely we have to find a way to get the best out of him, he plays in the forwards for Borris, maybe try him on one of the wings in the league, of course wing back is another option.
Shane McGrath, again outstanding in both 09 and 10 but patchy since, he was an excellent half back in his Fitzgibbon years, excellent fielder and strong for his body shape, his ability, or lack of , to get around the field anymore would be much less of an issue at half back, wont do as a forward as we saw in 2010 against Galway, i would say his place is under real threat next year unless he can rediscover his mojo.
Lar, what do we do with Lar, personally i would give him a free role to wander all over the forward line and beyond, he is too good, and too intelligent a hurler to limit imho, let him drag the slasher Tyrell around the park (into the refs eyeline preferably ;)), i will be throwing some of the kids inheritance on him being hurler of the year next year.
Seamie Callanan, Seamie, Seamie, supremely gifted, Eoin Kelly described him as having the best hands on the panel, but something missing, excellent in 09, dropped in 2010 but scored a couple of beauties when introduced in the final, obviously this year was a write off due originally to injury and then other "issues" but surely the new management have to find a way to mine the undoubted talent.
There are obviously lots of other issues which revolve around fitness, does Paul Curran have a full injury free season in him, if so then he is still the best full back in the country imho, likewise can Conor O'Mahoney shake off the niggling injuries that seem to blight him these days, he is utterly vital to Tipp, starting him with a broken toe against the cats was a huge mistake by management despite the players protestations that he was fine, we obviously also need a plan b for full back (Curran had a virus the week before the semi and surely wouldnt have played had we a viable alternative) if Curran succumbs to injury and in my opinion that plan b should be O'Mahoney, he was an outstanding underage full back and has all the attributes required.
Shane Bourke will push hard for a starting berth next year as will an injury free John O'Neill (is that an oxymoron,an injury free John O'Neill ! ), Gearoid Ryan will also push to regain his place, probably at the expense of Shane McGrath and hopefully Seamus Hennessy will finally be fit to start(restart ? he came on and scored in the 2010 final ) his senior career, all in all with the correct management team the future is far from gloomy.
Something noteworthy about the Tipperary team that won the 2001 All Ireland was how quickly several of them dropped off the radar. Players who werern't necessarily old, but didn't seem to have anything approaching a sustained inter county career afterwards.
I'm thinking of players like David Kennedy, Eddie Enright, Tomas Costello, Mark O'Leary and Eugene O'Neill.
Was it that Nicky English squeezed the maximum out of them to annex an All Ireland? Successful management is often more about getting the max out of the support cast, rather than pumping the star players I suppose.
I wonder will the same be said about the 2010 Tipperary team? A number of them appear off the boil, but history might eventually see it that these lads had a spike in performance from 09-11 rather than losses of form afterwards.
BNMM, I think Nickys genius was in winning an All-Ireland with that team, and running the cats so close the following year, the whole was certainly greater than the sum of the parts, the only lads from 01 who would make the current team( apart from Eoin, Lar and Brendan who played in 01) would be Tommy Dunne and Eamonn Corcoran,Paul Ormonde,Eddie Enright and Philly Maher would make the panel imho , for that team to be unbeaten through league and championship in 01 shows just what a loss Nicky was to Tipp after 02.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 05:25:04 PM
BNMM, I think Nickys genius was in winning an All-Ireland with that team, and running the cats so close the following year, the whole was certainly greater than the sum of the parts, the only lads from 01 who would make the current team( apart from Eoin, Lar and Brendan who played in 01) would be Tommy Dunne and Eamonn Corcoran,Paul Ormonde,Eddie Enright and Philly Maher would make the panel imho , for that team to be unbeaten through league and championship in 01 shows just what a loss Nicky was to Tipp after 02.
Cody won 2 all irelands in the following seasons and Kilkenny brought hurling onto a different level afterwards. So many teams hit the wall. But fingers crossed the wind is changing.
9 all irelands in not much more than a decade - that is 1 short of the combined all time total of Waterford , Galway and Offaly
Cody is a genius, nothing short of it, but he has had advantages, when the history of hurling is written Tommy Walsh, Henry Shefflin, JJ Delaney and imho Mick Fennelly will be mentioned among the greatest to ever play the game, to have all four during his reign has undoubtedly helped, never before have so many of the greatest players of all time happened to appear in the same era in the same county but Codys greatest achievement has been to foster " hunger " in boys who have numerous medals.
At a guess I am much older than you and what I interpret from what you are saying is that Cody arrived at just the right time? Chunky O'Brien, Pat Henderson, Pat Delaney, etc, etc, all those boys set the standards for how a cat should keep his tail on years ago. I could name a continous flow of Kilkenny players down the years that I have seen myself from Eddie Keher to Jim Treacy and there never was a question mark about who was boss, the manager or the team. Pat Henderson was taken off one day, Charlie Carter was captain one day and off the next etc, but all the team seem to gel together and they have this so much to perfection that Brian Cody could actually slip up to the Big Tree pub and have a few pints when the game is on because, as he says himself, once the team cross the line he trusts them.
What I'm saying Bud, in my cups ,as Con would say, i admit, is that the current Kilkenny team contain at least four of the greatest hurlers of all time, none of the lads you mention above, Eddie Keher excluded, would be within an asses roar of being called an all time great, the Tipp team of the sixties (I'm guessing you remember that era ?) contained,imho, three all time greats in Jimmy and John Doyle and Mick Roche, name the manager ? I'm sure you can but my point is the cult of the manager is a relatively recent phenomenon, Cody is a genius but as i have always said he has had help,not that i am taking in any way from his achievements, in fact i think it increases his legendary status.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 06:39:49 PM
Cody is a genius, nothing short of it, but he has had advantages, when the history of hurling is written Tommy Walsh, Henry Shefflin, JJ Delaney and imho Mick Fennelly will be mentioned among the greatest to ever play the game, to have all four during his reign has undoubtedly helped, never before have so many of the greatest players of all time happened to appear in the same era in the same county but Codys greatest achievement has been to foster " hunger " in boys who have numerous medals.
Kilkenny have a development system that is the envy of other sports like rugby and soccer. The Leinster Branch of the IRFU have made massive strides in the last few years spreading their network across Leinster, appointing coaches to liaise with schools, identifying promising players from under 13, mol an oige - ing them , building them up and establishing feeder systems into the provincial team but they are still not as efficient as Kilkenny.
One of the first things Anthony Cunningham did in Galway this year was set up such a scheme. That's where the future of all Ireland winning is.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 06:39:49 PM
Cody is a genius, nothing short of it, but he has had advantages, when the history of hurling is written Tommy Walsh, Henry Shefflin, JJ Delaney and imho Mick Fennelly will be mentioned among the greatest to ever play the game, to have all four during his reign has undoubtedly helped
He was helped also by a decade of Offaly and Wexford lying down like sheep and taking their annual hammering from the Cats.
Until Galway came into Leinster, Kilkenny didn't have to dust off the hurleys till August.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on September 07, 2012, 05:25:04 PM
BNMM, I think Nickys genius was in winning an All-Ireland with that team, and running the cats so close the following year, the whole was certainly greater than the sum of the parts, the only lads from 01 who would make the current team( apart from Eoin, Lar and Brendan who played in 01) would be Tommy Dunne and Eamonn Corcoran,Paul Ormonde,Eddie Enright and Philly Maher would make the panel imho , for that team to be unbeaten through league and championship in 01 shows just what a loss Nicky was to Tipp after 02.
I reckon Philly Maher in his pomp was as good a full back as Tipp has produced and would easily make the current team in his 2000/2 form; he had an absolutely mighty game against Kilkenny in 2002 before suffering the first of his knee injuries in the 2003 league final and was a colossal loss to Tipp that year – I'd find it hard to envisage Tommy Tomahawk and Cummins playing ping pong in the 2003 AISF on a fully fit Philly's watch.
The bould JC (Johnny Carroll) would hardly be too far away from the current panel either, a bit of his devilment in the forward line never went astray, whatever about the last management team the previous crowd would surely have kept him on a tight leash and away from the chip shops in Roscrea too.
The Paul Kelly of the early part of the decade would easily be there too, in addition to the lads hoh mentioned; it'd be some battle trying to make the midfield pairing with the contenders sparring for the two jerseys.
League and championship doubles were unheard of back in 2001, indeed I would say that Tipp under Nicky were the first crowd to take the league reasonably seriously, Brian Cody certainly paid it just lip service before 2002 when the likes of Martin Comerford & Derek Lyng emerged, the rest of the world has caught on since.
I think Philly, much like Paudie Maher, was too much of a hurler for full back Colombia, i prefer my full backs to be well versed in the dark arts, i remember a fella roaring abuse at Curran during the 2010 final and roaring at Sheedy to "take him off ta fcuk, sure he hasn't pucked a ball all day", i replied that i couldn't give a fcuk if he never pucked a ball as long as he minded the house, Philly was definitely the better hurler but i would take Curran over him all day long as a full back.
Would conor O'Mahoney make a good full back I wonder? His pace is an issue for him when he's run at, but he might be a good old fashioned stopper.
He was an outstanding underage full back AZ.
Aye, but underage is underage. I think he'd be good in there alright myself, because I think he's been a bit off colour out at number 6 the last couple of years. I know the mumps didn't help him last year, and I know his broken toe held him back v Kilkenny this year, but I haven't really see him impose himself on a game in a couple of years, barring a few spells versus Cork.
Philly was commanding at full back and good at mastering the square, a full back line of Curran, himself & Ormonde in that order when all were in their prime would've been as effective as you'd get, unfortunately it never came to pass at senior level. Curran's questionable touch has caused him trouble in front of goals at times, that said, he's been a tremendous servant to Tipp, the lack of obvious full back alternatives is a concern that the next management needs to immediately address.
O'Mahoney gave an exhibition at full back in the horror show that was the 2004 All-Ireland U21 final down in Nowlan Park. I wouldn't be an advocate of moving him back there now, as he's vulnerable on the turn to lads running at him. He's a lad I'd still have faith in for the long road, Pádraig Maher is more effective at wing back and that's where Tipp need him in 2013.
Incidentally, another parallel with 2003 was Tipp lining out with an injury compromised centre back against Kilkenny, when Tommy Dunne was barely able to run and was completely subdued by John Hoyne. This year we had O'Mahoney and Tom Stapleton in difficulty before the throw-in against Kilkenny, now you have lads calling for Stapleton to be discarded despite his excellent form in the preceding 3 games. Just goes to show that an injured defender will always be vulnerable.
Quote from: Colombia on September 17, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
Philly was commanding at full back and good at mastering the square, a full back line of Curran, himself & Ormonde in that order when all were in their prime would've been as effective as you'd get, unfortunately it never came to pass at senior level. Curran's questionable touch has caused him trouble in front of goals at times, that said, he's been a tremendous servant to Tipp, the lack of obvious full back alternatives is a concern that the next management needs to immediately address.
O'Mahoney gave an exhibition at full back in the horror show that was the 2004 All-Ireland U21 final down in Nowlan Park. I wouldn't be an advocate of moving him back there now, as he's vulnerable on the turn to lads running at him. He's a lad I'd still have faith in for the long road, Pádraig Maher is more effective at wing back and that's where Tipp need him in 2013.
Incidentally, another parallel with 2003 was Tipp lining out with an injury compromised centre back against Kilkenny, when Tommy Dunne was barely able to run and was completely subdued by John Hoyne. This year we had O'Mahoney and Tom Stapleton in difficulty before the throw-in against Kilkenny, now you have lads calling for Stapleton to be discarded despite his excellent form in the preceding 3 games. Just goes to show that an injured defender will always be vulnerable.
Ormonde was such an underrated corner back Colombia, a bit like John Heffernan back in his day, he wasn't a flashy player but i cant remember him being beaten by his opposite number very often, his display in the 01 final was a case in point, as for Philly, i just never felt comfortable with him on the edge of the square, he wasn't great in the air for a man of his size but he always put the hand up, Curran has a better paw imho but he also recognises when his opposite number is stronger in the air than him and adjusts his game to suit, i also think that Philly was too fond of the auld hollywood clearance.
As for the bolded bit above, we actually had three of our six defenders under par before the ball was thrown in, Curran had been ill all week, when you think about it the dressing room must have resembled a field hospital before the throw in with the doc chasing Stapelton and O'Mahoney around with a selection of needles and Curran mainlining lemsip and day nurse, add Eoin Kelly and Gearoid Ryan into the mix and you would find healthier hospital wards, yet all five togged out, madness.
Tipp were very unlucky in 1984
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=lXrWon3kZdI&NR=1
Aye, as in unlucky to have a full-back line who defended like that.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
Tipp were very unlucky in 1984
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
Tipp were very unlucky in 1984
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=lXrWon3kZdI&NR=1
If only John Sheedy hadn't brought down that ball that was going over the bar...
Tipp management team announced. From Tipperary GAA tonight.
*****
Appointment of Tipperary Senior Hurling Management Team
posted 4 minutes ago by sites tipperary
Tipperary County Board Press Release - Appointment of Tipperary Senior Hurling Management Team
Tipperary County Board is pleased to announce that the County Management Committee has tonight agreed to nominate for approval by County Board the appointment of Michael Ryan and Paudie O'Neill to join Manager, Eamon O'Shea, on the senior hurling management team. Michael Ryan will take on the role of Assistant Manager, while Paudie O'Neill will have responsibility for coaching the team.
Michael Ryan from the Upperchurch Drombane club played 24 senior hurling championship games for Tipperary in a senior inter-county career that started in 1991 versus Limerick and ended with his retirement in 2000. He won Munster and All-Ireland SH championships in 1991. He won Munster and All Ireland U-21 hurling championships in 1989, a Munster U-21 hurling championship in 1990 and a Munster minor hurling championship in 1987. He also won two NHL titles in 1994 and 1999. He played for the Upperchurch Drombane club at all levels. Michael was previously a member of the Tipperary senior hurling management team from 2008 to 2010 during which time Tipperary won the All Ireland senior hurling championship in 2010, the Munster senior hurling championship in 2008 and 2009 and the Allianz Hurling League title in 2008.
Paudie O'Neill is a native of Clonmel and now resides in Dublin. He played hurling with St. Mary's and football with Commercials in Clonmel and represented Tipperary at minor and under 21 level in hurling and at all levels in football. He also played senior hurling for Dublin. He has been heavily involved in the coaching of hurling at his school and with his club Ballyboden St. Enda's; he has also coached and managed Dublin under 21 and minor hurling teams. Paudie played a leading role in the development and delivery of the GAA Coach Education Programme at national level and he has managed Irish teams in the annual Shinty/Hurling internationals.
Both Michael and Paudie bring great experience and ability to the Tipperary senior hurling management team and with Eamon O'Shea, they will provide strong leadership to the Tipperary senior hurlers. Tipperary County Board is delighted that they have made themselves available to take on these important and voluntary roles and we wish them every success.
Don't know much about Paudie O'Neill other than that he played U21 hurling for Tipp alongside Eamon O'Shea in the late 1970s. Apparently he's a headmaster too so I'd expect discipline to be a feature of the new regime. Have no idea who the physical trainer will be.
Haven't heard of any voluntary defections from the squad either. No doubt there'll be some changes anyway with some new blood infused. Sure we can shorten the Winter here arguing about it anyway.
Paudie O'Neill also played football for Tipperary for a number of years and captained Clonmel Commercials to a County title in 1982. In his playing days, he would have been regarded as more of a footballer than a hurler. He hurled with St. Mary's for a number of years. He has been teaching in Dublin for many years.
Some talk down this way that Lar Corbett is bringing out a book in the next week or so. I can't see the new Tipp management being too happy with that if it is true.
Quote from: Onlooker on October 20, 2012, 03:28:50 PM
Some talk down this way that Lar Corbett is bringing out a book in the next week or so. I can't see the new Tipp management being too happy with that if it is true.
Appears to be wringing out every last drop out of his current stock value, shrewd enough character. Saw a Lar Corbett sports van in Ballinascreen last Sunday.
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
He's an Electrician,we are all desperate for a few quid nowadays.
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
He's an Electrician,we are all desperate for a few quid nowadays.
I thought his electrician days were behind him after he got the bar in Thurles.
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 10:50:49 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
He's an Electrician,we are all desperate for a few quid nowadays.
I thought his electrician days were behind him after he got the bar in Thurles.
Maybe so I dunno,I haven't met him in a while.Use to know him pretty well as we use to work for the same company a few years ago.
He was a far better hurler than he was an Electrician.
At one point in the extract from the book in yesterday's paper, Lar said "I don't mean to sound like a whinger" and then proceeded to whinge at length. Thinks big bad Jackie should treat him a little nicer.
Those 2 pages in the Sindo yesterday were pretty bad all right. Not a good reaction at all so far here in Tipperary. :( :(
Quote from: Onlooker on October 22, 2012, 08:13:08 PM
Those 2 pages in the Sindo yesterday were pretty bad all right. Not a good reaction at all so far here in Tipperary. :( :(
I can't find it online?
What was said?
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 10:50:49 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
He's an Electrician,we are all desperate for a few quid nowadays.
I thought his electrician days were behind him after he got the bar in Thurles.
Maybe so I dunno,I haven't met him in a while.Use to know him pretty well as we use to work for the same company a few years ago.
He was a far better hurler than he was an Electrician.
The way he screwed a fuse into a box and the way he unraveled a roll of cable. Terrible it was!
Quote from: Premier Emperor on October 22, 2012, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 10:50:49 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 20, 2012, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 20, 2012, 09:27:23 PM
He seems like a man desperate for a few quid.
He's an Electrician,we are all desperate for a few quid nowadays.
I thought his electrician days were behind him after he got the bar in Thurles.
Maybe so I dunno,I haven't met him in a while.Use to know him pretty well as we use to work for the same company a few years ago.
He was a far better hurler than he was an Electrician.
The way he screwed a fuse into a box and the way he unraveled a roll of cable. Terrible it was!
No no no, you're missing the point PE....Laoislad is the master sparky !
http://m.soundcloud.com/#/off-the-ball/lar-corbett-on-otb
Very good interview with Lar Corbett from Off The Ball Tuesday night, makes his points very well. Funny around 4:35 he's talking as if yapping to a mate in the pub.