Might as well get her started. Any point in us turning up? ;)
Must say am looking forward to it. In fact cant wait.
Yeah turn up. But best we don't give dem lads any more than 6 points of a headstart.... ;D
Will travel in hope rather than expectation.
Can't see where we will get the scores.
Hope for a strong ref who can spot Donegals cynical fouling when they lose possession.
Obviously a tactic to allow them to get as many behind the ball as possible.
Would be important for Down to move these kicks quickly but hard to do with a Donegal player standing in front of the kicker.
Donegal continue to perfect the negative sides to the game without the ball, while still looking quite positive when they have the ball. McGuiness in 18 months has turned a bunch of Chokers and ala carte inter-county footballers into a fighting mean machine. On the negative side, they don't score much and they don't concede much which means their games against good opposition will be tight, and leaves them fecked if the opposition scores goals.
Norabeag asks if there is any point in Down turning up, and Paddy Power seems to think that the answer is no. He quotes us as rank outsiders at 4/1, with Donegal at a prohibitive 2/9.
Fair enough, Donegal are the form side going into the final, but they have never won back to back Ulster titles and the last time the Anglo-Celt was retained by anyone other than Armagh or Tyrone was Derry back in 1976.
While Donegal have not conceded a goal from play in this year's USC, Tyrone managed four or five decent chances today. We have a good recent record against Donegal, and, if we can get our strongest team out, 4/1 looks generous.
The point is that, apart from the Tyrone and Armagh dominance of the last decade, when they were well ahead of the pack, retaining the Ulster title is a very difficult challenge. Donegal are being quoted by the bookies as virtual certainties to achieve something which they have never previously managed in their history.
Well they've never had a manager, fitness level, hunger, system, intensity, belief and experience like this before.
If history plays no part in the Ulster championship, how come Antrim have not won one in the last 60 years ?
QuoteIf history plays no part in the Ulster championship, how come Antrim have not won one in the last 60 years ?
Because they are crap?
Have to admit i was worried about this pairing for an Final, but having watched Donegal carefully today, my fears are somewhat allayed, if Down are in form and play there normal attacking game,as opposed to the defensive mindset we occasionally fall into, then Donegal are very beatable. Tyrone fell today because their forwards retreated rapidly into defence when Donegal had possession, instead of applying pressure on the Donegal defenders. When the Tyrone defence pushed out and stopped Donegals runs around the 40, Donegal responded by ineffectually passing the Ball around, before being turned over or kicking wide. The Down forwards carry a greater goal threat, and goals win games. It will be tough, but i am certainly more optimistic
Judging on Donegal's win over Tyrone and Down's potential it is clear to see that this will be another tight game, with maybe a few more scores than witnessed today. Down are not capable of the type of game Tyrone played today, and therefore will play the way they know best attack, this will in turn force Donegal to be more positive and potentially create a good final pairing. However, it is easy to sit back and say Down's attacking ability will automatically create this situation, it is clear to see that no matter how hard teams try, it is not easy to break down this Donegal defence. The efforts they go to in training to perfect this system has to be commended. Last point on the last semi final, Tyrone were within a kick of the ball of Donegal who I tipped for Ulster before it began, so if they can stick together I expect to see much more from them before the summer is out.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 01, 2012, 02:01:49 AM
Have to admit i was worried about this pairing for an Final, but having watched Donegal carefully today, my fears are somewhat allayed, if Down are in form and play there normal attacking game,as opposed to the defensive mindset we occasionally fall into, then Donegal are very beatable. Tyrone fell today because their forwards retreated rapidly into defence when Donegal had possession, instead of applying pressure on the Donegal defenders. When the Tyrone defence pushed out and stopped Donegals runs around the 40, Donegal responded by ineffectually passing the Ball around, before being turned over or kicking wide. The Down forwards carry a greater goal threat, and goals win games. It will be tough, but i am certainly more optimistic
i thought tyrone applied pressure on us around our hb line enough to allow them to set up their own swarm defence. tyrone set themselves up like this to prevent them being on the back foot defending against our counter attacking running game. we rarely got penetration (hehe, sorry, big kid) in our running game going. much harder to run through a swarm defence that's set up waiting for you. i thought tyrone had an absolutely fantastic defensive set up yesterday, slow down our counter attacks and set up an almost impenetrable swarm, i wouldn't be that confident if i was down that donegal will be ineffectual going forward unless you get enough numbers back and stop the running game too.
tbh, if down insist on playing an open attacking game against us, by all means, carry on, i'll be more than happy, because it will play into our hands. but if you were to press us high up the pitch, you'd need to do it as a team with a lot of numbers, then that's an interesting way of trying to shut down our attacks. i haven't seen down play either of these ways, with a swarm and counter attacking, or pressing high up the pitch in big numbers. we'll see what happens though. will be interesting to see what down come up with.
When's the last time Down met Donegal? If ye think ye can play open attacking football at any level yer in for an awful shock. If ye watch yesterday's game again look at EVERY time Mugsy, SON and Peter Hate get the ball. If they made a run into space and got a good pass, as soon as they caught it, if they didn't shoot or pass immediately they were surrounded by 4 or 5 men. To me these forwards were still hoping to take an extra touch or try a dummy or feign and then got swallowed up. Penrose to me was the only forward who had the pace and quick thinking to release the ball fast or shoot. Both teams totally snuffed out each others 'star' forwards and so I hope Down are not hoping Lavery will be their saviour again. I'd put big Dan at 14 alongside Benjamin if he's fit, with Lavery playing a roving role. He won't get space to breathe otherwise. Like my 3 year old daughter I'll be shouting Up Down
who the feck is lavery?
Quote from: extra time on July 01, 2012, 09:26:38 AM
who the feck is lavery?
ah you have him off to a t (i'll be here all day!).
We havn't a chance but I'll go to Clones in hope nonetheless. I will remember 91 when we were distinct underdogs but somehow won very easily.
Best memory of that game was when 5' nothing James McHugh came on as sub with about 10mins to go. On arriving at his marker, POR, he foolishly decided to try a punch on Paddy that resulted in a serious & physical slap from 6'3" Paddy. Don't think poor Martin touched the ball after that. Wee man syndrome think.
Com'on Down.
Ulster final appearances may be a more regular occurrence for Donegal, but it hard to believe that it is 9 years since Down last were there. So please forgive a bit of reminiscing :)
Down team Ulster Final 2003
M McVeigh,
J Clarke, B Burns (0-1), M Cole,
J Lavery, A O'Prey, A Molloy,
S Ward, G McCartan (0-1),
L Doyle (1-4), M Walsh, B Coulter (1-0),
R Sexton, D Gordon (2-1), R Murtagh.
Subs:
J McCartan, S King, M Linden, P McCartan
Bainisteoir:
Paddy O'Rourke
Those in bold are still involved in 2012.
Dan Gordon was aged 19 years, Benny Coulter aged 20, Liam Doyle aged 22.
Of the subs, James McCartan was aged 32 and Mickey Linden was aged 40.
brendy mac reserve keeper 2003
Is Colm McFadden the longest serving Donegal player, what about Christy Toye noticed he is still about and came on against Tyrone, any Donegal posters care to elaborate.
Hell I can't remember J Clarke at corner back.... must go check the programme to jog the old memory. Happier with our options in 2012 than the 03 team listed.
Speaking of Clarkes does the aussie football season end anytime soon??
how long will mcfadden get for being sent off?
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
how long will mcfadden get for being sent off?
two yellows I thought?
Donegal got the defence to hold Down, the same cant be said vice versa, too much been put into the 2nd half against monaghan and no one really looking at the way down played against monaghan in the 1st half! the way donegal play may keep the game tight, but cant help but think donegal will win pulling up
Hmm... my musings are:
- Donegal forwards too physically strong for the Down full back line. Who marks Michael Murphy, Colm McFadden and Patrick McBrearty? I'm not sure if our lads are big enough to go 1 on 1 against them.
- Too many Donegal defenders to allow Conor Laverty room to run. Although I did notice Donegal did tend to leave the square unguarded vs. Tyrone.
A possible plan might be Dan Gordon on edge of the square with Donal O'Hare right around him for breaks - at the very least it'll suck 2 or 3 Donegal defenders back into their goal, hopefully leaving a bit more room for switched balls around 40 yards out to give room for long range points. We need the likes of Aidan Carr, Danny Hughes, Ambrose and Benny to have their shooting boots on. Lav and Mark Poland will need to have the thinking caps on - I see them needing to operate as out and out creators than score takers in this one.
Still, that plan leaves the question - who marks the 3 big Donegal forwards?
Quote from: sheamy on July 02, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
how long will mcfadden get for being sent off?
two yellows I thought?
aye, sorry, two yellows... how long for that? couple of hail marys and an act of contrition?
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: sheamy on July 02, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
how long will mcfadden get for being sent off?
two yellows I thought?
aye, sorry, two yellows... how long for that? couple of hail marys and an act of contrition?
That'll be about it. No suspension for 2 yellows.
Quote from: RMDrive on July 02, 2012, 08:49:02 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: sheamy on July 02, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 02, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
how long will mcfadden get for being sent off?
two yellows I thought?
aye, sorry, two yellows... how long for that? couple of hail marys and an act of contrition?
That'll be about it. No suspension for 2 yellows.
ah good, we need him. he's playing great stuff. cheers.
Mickey Harte had 12 months to try and crack the Donegal problem and couldn't find an answer. Not many teams in the country may be able to.
Tyrone were well set up defensively but Donegal gradually wore them down. Unbelievable levels of fitness and strength on display. It is a machine in the way Armagh were for a few years. Armagh had more natural forwards though.
The Donegal system is built around not conceding goals. They rode their luck against Kildare and Dublin last year, goals which were disallowed and missed respectively would have finished them. Down need to find a way to get 1 or even 2 goals and keep the concession of frees to a minimum.
Maybe go with a new approach. You are not going to run through Donegal. Maybe play a 3 man full forward line of Coulter,Gordon and Poland with half forwards of Carr,Laverty and Hughes as a screen in front of midfield to stop Donegal runners.
Quote from: Orangemac on July 02, 2012, 11:45:58 PM
Maybe go with a new approach. You are not going to run through Donegal. Maybe play a 3 man full forward line of Coulter,Gordon and Poland with half forwards of Carr,Laverty and Hughes as a screen in front of midfield to stop Donegal runners.
I don't think there's much point playing a full forward line against Donegal. Mulligan and O'Neill were worthless for the entire game on Saturday. Drag three men back, play a 3-4-4-3 formation, control the middle or maybe draw them out a bit, make it way harder for them to break at pace and make it easier for your own players to make runs from deep and find some space.
Donegal just love it when teams throw players forward. It's their trap. The way they break at speed is reminiscent of Real Madrid and I'd bet anything McGuinness has showed his players videos of them.
Sooner or later some team is going to work put how to deal with Donegal's players sweeping forward. They've have clearly developed a devastatingly effective system but the difference between them and Tyrone at their best is that they have almost totally sacrificed individual flair and creativity and an ability to think individually in favour of a relentless adherence to the system. Tyrone enabled individual flair and creativity to flourish within a system. Time and again Tyrone over the last decade Tyrone have, through football intelligence, turned games that were going against them completely in their favour. Donegal have yet to do that. There is no Plan B and when faced with a situation where they needed a goal against Dublin last year, no imagination or intelligent thinking. There is only one-track thinking, a relentless adherence the system they have.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2012, 07:36:50 PM
Still, that plan leaves the question - who marks the 3 big Donegal forwards?
Benny McArdle, Dan Gordan, Aidan Brannigan.
Two of this trio were missing for the Monaghan game through injury and suspension.
Quote from: Sidney on July 03, 2012, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Orangemac on July 02, 2012, 11:45:58 PM
Maybe go with a new approach. You are not going to run through Donegal. Maybe play a 3 man full forward line of Coulter,Gordon and Poland with half forwards of Carr,Laverty and Hughes as a screen in front of midfield to stop Donegal runners.
I don't think there's much point playing a full forward line against Donegal. Mulligan and O'Neill were worthless for the entire game on Saturday. Drag three men back, play a 3-4-4-3 formation, control the middle or maybe draw them out a bit, make it way harder for them to break at pace and make it easier for your own players to make runs from deep and find some space.
Donegal just love it when teams throw players forward. It's their trap. The way they break at speed is reminiscent of Real Madrid and I'd bet anything McGuinness has showed his players videos of them.
Sooner or later some team is going to work put how to deal with Donegal's players sweeping forward. They've have clearly developed a devastatingly effective system but the difference between them and Tyrone at their best is that they have almost totally sacrificed individual flair and creativity and an ability to think individually in favour of a relentless adherence to the system. Tyrone enabled individual flair and creativity to flourish within a system. Time and again Tyrone over the last decade Tyrone have, through football intelligence, turned games that were going against them completely in their favour. Donegal have yet to do that. There is no Plan B and when faced with a situation where they needed a goal against Dublin last year, no imagination or intelligent thinking. There is only one-track thinking, a relentless adherence the system they have.
sure mcfadden had a good opportunity to score a goal against dublin.
+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?
And I must have imagined us digging ourselves out of holes against Tyrone and kildare last year.
aw now... a great piece of imaginative irish fiction. but we shouldn't be discouraging raw talent if we're to continue punching above our weight at the aul' writing.
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
And I must have imagined us digging ourselves out of holes against Tyrone and kildare last year.
Tyrone had got to grips with Donegal last year and a disastrous defensive error handed them the match on a plate. Kildare couldn't deal with Donegal's system but even still were also denied a perfectly good goal which would have killed off Donegal's challenge. On neither occasion did Donegal vary their tactics. When faced with a situation against 14 man Dublin where they needed to score and needed to show a bit of intelligence in varying their tactics they were couldn't and were easily dealt with for the last ten minutes plus injury time.
Quote from: cadence on July 03, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?
I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?
Quote from: Sidney on July 03, 2012, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 03, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?
I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?
imagination and intelligence does not revitalise your physical energy stores. donegal were a shot force in the last ten minutes. kept going, but no pep left, the legs were gone. but please, carry on, by all means.
Quote from: cadence on July 03, 2012, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 03, 2012, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: cadence on July 03, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
+ how do you play a game and score points without any imagination or intelligent thinking. i'm intrigued. how exactly does this phenomena happen?
I specifically mentioned the last ten minutes against Dublin. Perhaps you can point out the imagination or intelligent thinking Donegal displayed there?
imagination and intelligence does not revitalise your physical energy stores. donegal were a shot force in the last ten minutes. kept going, but no pep left, the legs were gone. but please, carry on, by all means.
Correct. Only a couple of scores in it. Worst thing a team can do is change their strategy and lose shape in last few minutes - and they were struggling for air, and Karl Lacey was gone too? That s just desperation and asking to get killed. Donegals best chance of a result was doing what they did. As somebody already pointed out McFadden missed a great goal chance late on.
Whatever about plan B, most teams can t get a good A game together. If people are critical of Donegals lack of flexibility what does that say about likes of Kildare - who don t even have a good A game. Dublin had little enough imagination last year (and the last day too), while Cork have become competitive by abandoning their tradition and bullying and snarling their way to success.
Whoever manages to beat Donegal I expect to win AI but I m not sure they will be beaten. They are not a team that will be bullied by Cork either because physically they are as big and their discipline is way better. That s a clash I hope happens and I would expect Donegal to prevail.
I ve seen them twice live this year and it is impossible not to be impressed. There is no other team close to them as regards keeping the ball under pressure, and the way the game is developing that is going to be a massive plus. Not many teams would take as strategic an approach as Tyrone did the last day and I expect them to punish severly any team that tries to play anything except a very defensive game against them.
You might get your wish in the All-Ireland semi final, moysider, as the Ulster and Munster champions are scheduled to meet at that stage.
Although Down might have something to say about that.
Cork will beat Clare in Munster and Donegal should beat Down. But if there's one team I worry about playing in championship its Down, especially in finals. They gave us an awful tanking in the 1991 Ulster final, and the history books say they beat Donegal in several deciders in the 1960s. We have huge respect for Down's championship tradition and pedigree.
But, Down have blown very hot and cold for the past 2 years, exemplified by their performance against Monaghan last time out.
Donegal's physical condition is much commented upon, but their mental strength less so. This Donegal team doesn't do hot and cold. They might well lose, but, under McGuinness' tutelage they will not flop.
They will be confident of beating Down and, all things being equal, they will do so. And if they fail, Down will have had to put in a performance for the ages and Donegal will have died with their boots on.
It's going to be fascinating.
Down played Antrim tonight in Carryduff. Believe it was 2-14 to 1-7 but little can be read into the scoreline as many of the likely starting 15 watched from the sidelines and trained on the banks. Down actually played with 14 men for the final 10 minutes as Timmy Hanna came off with a niggle and wasn't replaced.
Wet conditions, slippy ball.
Benny, Dan Gordon & Doyle all played. Maginn, Aidan Brannigan and Arthur McConville also involved. Eoin McCartan replaced Benny for last 5/10mins.
Down's 2 goals were from Benny in first half and McConville in second half.
Didn't see Garvey, King or O'Hagan but I could just have missed them.
Team's and management's spirits seemed up.
Fair play to Carryduff for accommodating the lads on short notice.
Any Down fans who want some more specific insight on individual performances or points of note by all means PM me. ;)
While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.
Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.
Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.
Quote from: Orangemac on July 03, 2012, 11:01:01 PM
While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.
Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.
Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.
So who s going to beat them Orangemac?
Quote from: JHume on July 03, 2012, 10:53:22 PM
You might get your wish in the All-Ireland semi final, moysider, as the Ulster and Munster champions are scheduled to meet at that stage.
Although Down might have something to say about that.Cork will beat Clare in Munster and Donegal should beat Down. But if there's one team I worry about playing in championship its Down, especially in finals. They gave us an awful tanking in the 1991 Ulster final, and the history books say they beat Donegal in several deciders in the 1960s. We have huge respect for Down's championship tradition and pedigree.
But, Down have blown very hot and cold for the past 2 years, exemplified by their performance against Monaghan last time out.
Donegal's physical condition is much commented upon, but their mental strength less so. This Donegal team doesn't do hot and cold. They might well lose, but, under McGuinness' tutelage they will not flop.
They will be confident of beating Down and, all things being equal, they will do so. And if they fail, Down will have had to put in a performance for the ages and Donegal will have died with their boots on.
It's going to be fascinating.
Not really my wish or anything but it is one challenge I d like to see Cork deal with.
Last August Mayo beat Cork playing a bit of football. Most people stupidly put it down to Cork losing concentration - you usually get that explanation when a team loses to Mayo ::). Cork s reaction was rabid - in the league and league final. IMO they possibly have already bought the farm.
They took losing that qf so seriously that you would swear they were listening to the media than looking at themselves. Imo they looked to rehabilitate themselves by looking for Mayo. When I doubt Mayo were really too bothered. Counihan and a lot of his players have been around a long time and there appears to be a lot of pressure there. I suspect they picked the wrong opposition to up the ante and show their hand so early.
Cork s discipline is poor and it is unlikely that any ref will allowed himself to be bullied in this champ. like Deegan was in League Final. I m sure it has been pointed out to him that he missed big cards on Cork in that match. I ve no doubt that a marker has been put down as a result of this. In fairness to Mayo tongues were bitten and pricks in the media set the usual agenda but refereering was mangled that day and they wont be listening to Brolly and Eugene McGee.
And before anybody poopoos this - anybody see a sending off of a Louth player for trying to lift a Westmeath player off the ground? What he did was harmless compared to what Noel O Leary did in league so I suspect that a bit of a 'circular' has gone out to refs. I also suspect that the 'throating' of a player - well demonstrated by Shields, Cadogan and Goulding- will also be treated as a striking offence. And rightly so as anybody with a smashed larynx will tell you >:( Maybe, after all, the powers that be, are serving us better than likes of Brolly and Spillane who focused on a player diving - even though he took argueably 5 yellow/red card tackles.
Quote from: Orangemac on July 03, 2012, 11:01:01 PM
While it would make you yearn for the free flowing puke football of 2003 it is hard to see many teams coping with Donegal this year.
Dublin at their best,Kerry if they can regain their hunger. I think Donegal would beat Cork handily, player for player you would put them ahead of Donegal but hey always seem to lack a sense of purpose, lateral passing without any particular game plan.
Michael Murphy did not look fit aginst Tyrone, if he doesn't hit top form and or McFadden got injured it would be difficult to see Donegal getting further than last year.
thought murphy was off the pace as well. a month's worth of good mixed training, nice and steady, he'll be hard to stop again. i'd be happy if we got to another semi-final. what the players need is a nice long run, competing with the big boys, giving them a game. good to get a sense of progress, that things are still going forward. we could get a crap draw and not get as far as last year. even if they don't get as far as last year, it's that feeling of improving that's important. rome wasn't built in a day and all that.
Donegal will destroy Down. That is the worst Down team i have seen, oh let me see, ....since last year!!
Viva, Maybe the real strenght is in Down's sub bench? They dispatched Antrim handy enough last night.
QuoteMaybe the real strenght is in Down's sub bench?
Why? Are the subs better than the team?
Had heard that challenge game last night was much closer than you are suggesting Aristo? Down's second goal came right at the end I was told and Benny only played a half apparently? Where you there or just receiving info?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 04, 2012, 01:02:32 PM
QuoteMaybe the real strenght is in Down's sub bench?
Why? Are the subs better than the team?
Well that was really my question to Viva. But make it yours if you want.
Yes I was there CitySlicker. Does the scoreline suggest they needed the second goal to you?
I wouldn't be confident of beating Donegal; they're the form team and have had a tougher series of games to get here.
But there's a few things would give me confidence:
- Donegal's system means that for the most part we shouldn't have to worry about our wandering half-back line leaving the full-back line exposed. The three full-backs should be able to cope with McFadden and AN Other for the most part.
- Tyrone showed in the last 5 minutes of the semi-final that if you move the ball quickly through the middle of the Donegal defence, their big strong men perhaps don't react that quickly. Drawing frees and yellow card, and creating goal chances should be very plausible if Laverty, Poland and Coulter can work in sync.
- Down will have no hang ups and no fears of Donegal. This is an amazing plus point for arrogant Down football. The likes of Cork, Tyrone and Armagh had us beat before we started after various times over the past few years. Teams like Kerry and Kildare, who we've no history with, meant we played with freedom.
- Lastly, this is now an experienced Down team, with the majority of players settled into their positions and aware of their roles. This is so important, it means that we rarely go far behind in games and generally know how to steady the ship. I really don't expect McCartan to rock the boat much here and try to devise a master plan for unsettling Donegal. The master plan for me is simple enough: get your nose in front and patiently keep it there, then see what Donegal do when they have to chase a game.
Quote from: Sidney on July 03, 2012, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
And I must have imagined us digging ourselves out of holes against Tyrone and kildare last year.
Tyrone had got to grips with Donegal last year and a disastrous defensive error handed them the match on a plate. Kildare couldn't deal with Donegal's system but even still were also denied a perfectly good goal which would have killed off Donegal's challenge. On neither occasion did Donegal vary their tactics. When faced with a situation against 14 man Dublin where they needed to score and needed to show a bit of intelligence in varying their tactics they were couldn't and were easily dealt with for the last ten minutes plus injury time.
How had Tyrone got to grips with Donegal? They'd come back from five points down and struggling majorly to lead the game, doing pretty much what they did on Saturday by shutting down the Tyrone attack.
And as for the Kildare game, yes, the goal would have made it very difficult, but its ridiculous to suggest it would have been game over. There were still 25 minutes left. Within just over ten minutes of that goal Donegal had turned a 3 point deficit into a 3 point lead. They turned a 3 point deficit late in extra time into a win.
Isn't that your point that Donegal are in trouble when behind against good teams? Two years ago I would certainly have written Donegal off when they were in a 5 or 6 point hole against good teams like Tyrone or Kildare. Not anymore.
Dublin were simply a better and fitter team and Donegal were dead on their feet in the last ten minutes.
I can't believe some of the nonsense that is being spouted about Donegal. Jesus wept - Who will stop them, they will hammer Down, Cork wouldn't even beat them. My god what team have these people being watching. Donegal hung on by the skin of their teeth to Division one status and hung on by the skin of their teeth (or rather their goalies finger tips) to reach an Ulster final..
12 points in a semi-final is hardly something to vaunt a team about. They are a hard working, aggressive, fit team. They have two good forwards and are happy to just reduce the scoring potential of their opposition. Donegal deserve credit for their application and for getting to two finals in a row. They deserve credit for defending well. But come on lads they are not anything special.
God it's like the ridiculous Kildare hype all over again. What exactly gives Kildare or Donegal the right to be talked about in such reverent tones????? IN total they have beaten Antrim once, Cavan, Derry and Tyrone twice. They only beat Tyrone by 3 last year and two this year. Hardly the stuff of imminent champions. They beat Kildare to reach an All-Ireland semi, which is appropriate as they are an equally over-hyped team.
Don't get me wrong I am far from confident of beating Donegal, far from it. We will need to be at our best and score every chance we make. But that's just us. I'm happy for people to say that Down are in for a hard test. But I am not happy that somehow all reason seems to have been lost and Donegal have been elevated to the king pins over Kerry, Cork, Dublin, Mayo.... Teams they have proved nothing against in championship football, nor shown any indication they even could.
I have a sneaky feeling they will be caught out in the Ulster Final, Tyrone showed a brief part of the template to stifle them 7 providing Down win, I think they will take them!
Does McGuinness still work with Achieve Consultancy in Letterkenny or has he moved on?
Down are a terrible team; I'd even fancy Derry to beat them FFS. What is the handicap??? I reckon Donegal will win with 8 to spare!!!!!!!! I'll put my Derry Living Allowance on it!
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2012, 02:02:56 PM
I wouldn't be confident of beating Donegal; they're the form team and have had a tougher series of games to get here.
But there's a few things would give me confidence:
- Donegal's system means that for the most part we shouldn't have to worry about our wandering half-back line leaving the full-back line exposed. The three full-backs should be able to cope with McFadden and AN Other for the most part.
- Tyrone showed in the last 5 minutes of the semi-final that if you move the ball quickly through the middle of the Donegal defence, their big strong men perhaps don't react that quickly. Drawing frees and yellow card, and creating goal chances should be very plausible if Laverty, Poland and Coulter can work in sync.
- Down will have no hang ups and no fears of Donegal. This is an amazing plus point for arrogant Down football. The likes of Cork, Tyrone and Armagh had us beat before we started after various times over the past few years. Teams like Kerry and Kildare, who we've no history with, meant we played with freedom.
- Lastly, this is now an experienced Down team, with the majority of players settled into their positions and aware of their roles. This is so important, it means that we rarely go far behind in games and generally know how to steady the ship. I really don't expect McCartan to rock the boat much here and try to devise a master plan for unsettling Donegal. The master plan for me is simple enough: get your nose in front and patiently keep it there, then see what Donegal do when they have to chase a game.
+1
Donegal are a good side and are justifiable favourites to win. They were a good side pre Jim as bainisteoir, but even better now with his organisation.
However, I believe that Down can still win this one. They do not need to introduce a new master plan to beat Donegal as the basis of it may already be in place.
I feel that before this year began, this Down team put an Ulster Championship as their top priority. And they knew that to do that, they would most likely have to beat Donegal somewhere along the line, so they were already working on how to do just that.
There was evidence through the McKenna Cup and NFL Divison One games that they could play in a way to overcome an ultra defensive strategy. Even though they got their annual steam-rolling by Cork, it is interesting that they beat both Dublin and Donegal in the league. It could be that maybe, just maybe, they have found a way to win this.
I wouldn't be over confident either, but we beat them in the league this year and they too can have a bad day at the office. Certainly not a foregone conclusion.
The last time these two teams met in the Ulster Championship was 2 years ago (2010) in Ballybofey.
It was James McCartan's first game as bainisteor, and the game went to extra time. Here are the team sheets from then:
Down: B McVeigh; B McArdle, D Rooney, D Rafferty; K McKernan, J Colgan, C Garvey; D Gordon, K King; D Hughes (0-4), M Poland (0-3), P McComiskey; B Coulter (1-4), J Clarke (0-1), M Clarke (0-3). Subs: C McGinn, P Fitzpatrick. Extra time: C Laverty, R Murtagh.
Donegal: P Durcan; F McGlynn, N McGee, K Lacey; M Maguire, K Cassidy, B Dunnion; B Monaghan, N Gallagher; R Kavanagh (0-1), C Toye, D Walsh (0-1); D Molloy (1-3), M Murphy (0-1), C Dunne (1-0). Subs: A Hanlon (0-1), A Thompson, M McHugh (0-1), D O'Hagan, C McFadden (0-1). Extra time: P McGrath, E Wade (0-1).
Donegal 2-10 Down 1-15 (after extra time)
Of that 2010 Down team there are 7 missing this year.
Dee Rafferty (early retirement)
James Colgan, Marty Clarke, Peter Fitzpatrick (emigration)
Paul McComiskey, John Clarke, Ronan Murtagh. (no longer on the panel)
Anyone who says its a foregone conclusion is an idiot.
And its true that Tyrone highlighted some potential chinks in Donegal's armour with some movement and swift passing creating goal chances. Even without that, with the exception of Kerry at their pomp, there are rarely foregone conclusions in football once you get out of June. Donegal are justifiable favourites given the past year, but there is no way Down will go into this thinking its a game they can't win. And vice versa for Donegal. They'll know they have be up for it and properly prepared.
Quote from: J70 on July 04, 2012, 05:42:07 PM
Anyone who says its a foregone conclusion is an idiot.
And its true that Tyrone highlighted some potential chinks in Donegal's armour with some movement and swift passing creating goal chances. Even without that, with the exception of Kerry at their pomp, there are rarely foregone conclusions in football once you get out of June. Donegal are justifiable favourites given the past year, but there is no way Down will go into this thinking its a game they can't win. And vice versa for Donegal. They'll know they have be up for it and properly prepared.
+1
I am looking forward to a great match up
Anyone have confirmation on Garvey ?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 05, 2012, 09:42:08 AM
Anyone have confirmation on Garvey ?
1 match ban. Failed appeal.
Conor Garvey is expected to miss Down's Ulster SFC final against Donegal on July 22 after his appeal against a two-match ban was rejected.
The Mayobridge defender received a retrospective ban from the CCCC for an alleged stamp on Monaghan's Karl O'Connell during last month's dramatic Ulster semi-final, which saw Down come from nine points down to win by a point. He appealed the suspension to the Central Hearings Committee, who decided to uphold his ban on Tuesday night, meaning he will miss the Ulster final as well as the Mourne County's next game in the championship.
It remains to be seen if the wing back will take his appeal to the Central Appeals Committee or, if that fails, the Disputes Resolution Authority.
Good post from Wobbler.
I think James said something about Down being a team capable of getting beat by anyone earlier this year and you never know what you are going to get (even within the same game as the Monaghan match showed). I would still be worried about our full back line but think the Donegal set up might not expose them so much ...a 50:50 match imo.
A neanderthal approach could win it for us I think. The long high ball into a target man full forward could undo Donegal.
The loser of this game are back out again in six days?
Quote from: Mourne Rover on June 30, 2012, 11:59:45 PM
Norabeag asks if there is any point in Down turning up, and Paddy Power seems to think that the answer is no. He quotes us as rank outsiders at 4/1, with Donegal at a prohibitive 2/9.
Fair enough, Donegal are the form side going into the final, but they have never won back to back Ulster titles and the last time the Anglo-Celt was retained by anyone other than Armagh or Tyrone was Derry back in 1976.
While Donegal have not conceded a goal from play in this year's USC, Tyrone managed four or five decent chances today. We have a good recent record against Donegal, and, if we can get our strongest team out, 4/1 looks generous.
For the first time in my life I put money on Down to win, those odds are ridiculous.
I really think James will have to try out something a little different on the 22nd. The long, high balls have been mentioned here and on HS also. James has so far been quite conservative in his managerial approach and it will be very interesting to see how he approaches this.
The last time we were in an Ulster Final big Dan caused havoc on the edge of the square (in the drawn game anyway!) - King has also shown glimpses that he can throw his weight around on the edge of the square.
Carr seems to have a good delivery of accurate long (high) balls whilst Poland has the ability to split open a defence with a pass. Poland and Hughes will be worth their weight in gold picking up breaks but cannot under any circumstances dwell on the ball or they will be overturned so fast ball is key. The best way to get the ball to our scoring forwards me be over the top.
Tactics will be winning or loosing of this game. Donegal will not be changing theirs.
Not overly confident of winning as we are rightly underdogs but I really think we still have a chance. Goals will bey key. CANNOT WAIT.
Quote from: southdown on July 06, 2012, 09:10:49 AM
I really think James will have to try out something a little different on the 22nd. The long, high balls have been mentioned here and on HS also. James has so far been quite conservative in his managerial approach so far and it will be very interesting to see how he approaches this.
The last time we were in an Ulster Final big Dan caused havoc on the edge of the square (in the drawn game anyway!) - King has also shown glimpses that he can throw his weight around on the edge of the square.
Carr seems to have a good delivery of accurate long (high) balls whilst Poland has the ability to split open a defence with a pass. Poland and Hughes will be worth their weight in gold picking up breaks but cannot under any circumstances dwell on the ball or they will be overturned so fast ball is key. The best way to get the ball to our scoring forwards me be over the top.
Tactics will be winning or loosing of this game. Donegal will not be changing theirs.
Not overly confident of winning as we are rightly underdogs but I really think we still have a chance. Goals will bey key. CANNOT WAIT.
and defensively... any thoughts on how to limit our attacks?
Long high balls are not the answer. The long ball works when percentages are tilted in your favour, or even not entirely against you.
Donegal will have up to 14 men inside their 45 at any given time. If Big Dan / AN Other manages to pluck a clean ball he'll be swamped on hitting the floor, for an inevitable free out. If Big Dan/ AN Other tries to break a ball down, all he'll see are green and yellow shirts, which 9 times out of 10 will result in a turnover and counter attack.
So the best option for Big Dan/ AN Other is to try and fist the ball towards the net / over the bar - a tactic which is throughly dependent on the right ball being played into the right zone, and the target not being marked by someone smaller who can't read the game. That's not Niall McGee by the way. McGee only needs any touch to nullify this tactic, Gordon needs an accurate and clean touch.
What way do we see the back 6 taking shape if Garvey doesn't make it on the day?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 06, 2012, 05:19:32 PM
What way do we see the back 6 taking shape if Garvey doesn't make it on the day?
i would expect brannigan to replace garvey if his undeserved ban isnt overturned. the other 5 defenders remaining the same.
Dublin, Kildare equally if not more driven in my opinion.
It is often said in a sporting context that success comes in cycles. This is particularly true in a GAA context. During the 70's and early 80's the great Dublin and Kerry teams held sway before giving way to Meath who won the All-Ireland title in 1987 and '88 with the best team ever to have represented the county.
It was Cork's turn to reign when they collected the Sam Maguire Cup in 1989 and 1990 before Down made it five titles in all by taking delivery of the 'big one' in 1991 and '94.
Meath again surfaced as kingpins (1996 and '99) prior to Galway (1998 and 2001) showing their mettle as worthy All-Ireland champions before Kerry and Tyrone became the dominant forces from 2000 until the present day.
Similarly, on the provincial front certain teams have tended to rule the roost for spells and Ulster is a prime example.
Since 1999 Armagh have won the Anglo Celt Cup seven times while Tyrone have sat on the provincial throne on five occasions in that period.
But the balance of power has switched significantly. Now Donegal hold all the aces and will make history should they collect what would be back-to-back Ulster titles when they meet Down in this year's decider on July 22.
It is debatable though if any team has suffered as much Championship heartbreak as the north-west side. Under successive managers they struggled to get their hands on the Ulster crown since 1992 when Brian McEniff (pictured, far right) worked the oracle.
But Jim McGuinness (pictured, right) has changed all that. A team that were dubbed 'nearly men' have become supermen, an outfit on a mission.
In his debut season as boss, McGuinness plotted the route to glory last year even if his team's strategy did not offer any great aesthetic value. The fact that the title famine had ended was all that mattered — it was a classic example of the end justifying the means.
Not only will Donegal enter the Ulster final later this month as firm favourites but since last Saturday's win over Tyrone they have not surprisingly found themselves thrust into the All-Ireland title frame.
And for a very good reason too. After all, what team would fancy pitting its tactical blueprint against Jim McGuinness's complex yet hugely effective tactical plan?
And how many managers honestly feel they are capable of nullifying the potent threat that players such as Michael Murphy, Colm McFadden, Patrick McBreaty and Mark McHugh can pose?
If patience is a virtue, Donegal have had it in spades. Time and again they reached Ulster finals and semi-finals in the past twelve years only to suffer excruciating heartbreak.
McGuinness has single-handedly changed all that.
Donegal were the laughing stock of football on occasions with tales of their socialising – particularly after defeats — doing the rounds, thus heaping further embarrassment on the squad. They became proficient at celebrating defeats, indeed.
But those days are firmly in the past. It would be difficult indeed to find a more driven, focused, fixated side than Jim McGuinness' outfit.
When they won the Ulster title last year, the manager made it clear that he did not want this to be regarded as a flash in the pan.
The chances are that back to back titles will now accrue and
this will pave the way for a concerted shot at the All-Ireland title. It's worth remembering that Donegal are now an even wiser, fitter and even more ambitious outfit than they were last term when they came within a whisker of reaching the All-Ireland final.
Like everyone else in football, McGuinness is continuing to learn his trade except perhaps that he is absorbing lessons at a faster rate than most other folk.
When his side played Dublin in the All-Ireland final last year they enjoyed a three-point lead and should have been more than capable of pushing on to record what would have been a fairy-tale victory.
Instead they retreated into a defensive shell and lost a game that been there for the taking by the incongruous margin of 0-8 to 0-6. I don't think that we will see the same safety-first mentality prevail to the same extent this time round.
Donegal have acquired a sharper edge and a greater variety to what was a previously latent attacking concept and this has already taken them to championship victories over Cavan, Derry and Tyrone.If they win the Ulster title, they will have done it the hard way. After all, Kerry won several All-Ireland titles by playing just five games!
With a number of players waiting in the wings to sample action, McGuinness clearly has the resources at his disposal to keep Donegal at the top.
I cannot see them being easily dislodged from their perch and if as expected they retain their Ulster crown, then this will provide further impetus for their drive for All-Ireland glory.
Success indeed comes in cycles and right now Donegal have their foot on the pedal.
It would be difficult to find a more driven, focused, fixated side than Jim McGuinness' team
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan/joe-kernan-donegal-destined-for-top-16181433.html#ixzz1zsG7lsnY
Did Kerry not beat Donegal quite easily in the League? Were they playing with a weakened side or do Kerry just know how to handle the blanket defence? Or did it not matter because 'It's only the league'?
kerry are gone. crap team this year
some mcguinness views on that kerry game, he thinks kerry are the best team at thinking on the pitch...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0607/sport/finding-a-plan-b-will-be-crucial-to-tyrones-progress-196538.html
although he said he didn't think we performed that day, he does acknowledge how good kerry are...
http://donegalnews.com/2012/03/11/donegal-gunned-down-in-kerry/
o'conner on how kerry planned a way to beat the swarm...
http://munster.gaa.ie/2012/03/11/allianz-football-league-division-1-kerry-v-donegal/
i'd hope not to see us shipping that amount of points again and hope that it was an off day for us, but it could happen again. a team plays poorly and the opposition play well, the former tends to get badly beat, regardless of what type of a system that's being used. just hope this doesn't happen to us again. if we're going to get beat, it's better for the players to go down playing well. at least then they'll know, having been beaten, how far off they are from the level they need to be at to win.
having said that, whilst football is football and any team can be beat, we're in good shape. i still can't get over our turnaround though. it takes some doing changing a culture and mentality root and branch. not only that, as far as i can make out, the support for what is happening is overwhelming. there's even efforts to build a centre of excellence?! who'd a thunk it. hats off to mcguinness, his team, all the players and those involved in running and organising the game in donegal.
make your transition!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYAIJjZD1I0
Its hard to believe the turnaround all right. Ten or eleven of the current first fifteen started in Crossmaglen two years ago. Many of them played against Cork in 2009, although given the power and athleticism of Cork that day and the fact that it was Donegal's fourth week out in a row, I wouldn't hold that game against them TOO much. And then a few would have played in the collapses against Tyrone and Monaghan in 2007. I couldn't see those types of hammerings and surrenders happening to this current team, despite the common personnel. Its all down to McGuinness.
Big Neil Gallagher picked up an injury in a league game last night. Major doubt for the final. Neil has been one of our best and most consistent performers this year and would be a massive loss.
I thought Jim had fix'd it that players were not involved in club games?
What is the feeling in Donegal if Gallagher can't play, I'd have said he was a key component in the overall strategy??
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 08, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
I thought Jim had fix'd it that players were not involved in club games?
What is the feeling in Donegal if Gallagher can't play, I have said he was a key component in the overall strategy??
dont talk to me >:( >:( >:(
Down 4/1 to win a match, any match, is incredible.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 08, 2012, 09:04:28 PM
Down 4/1 to win a match, any match, is incredible.
Whilst I would expect Donegal to win in the end, that is a seriously generous price.
Donegal are generally not the kind of team that are going to blow a team away. They can dominate games and still not have much to spare on the scoreboard. So it wouldn't take a whole pile for Down to score a couple of goals and give themselves a real chance of winning this one. Not saying they will but that 4/1 is value.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 08, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
I thought Jim had fix'd it that players were not involved in club games?
What is the feeling in Donegal if Gallagher can't play, I have said he was a key component in the overall strategy??
They called off a round of championship games this weekend at McGuinness' request.
Gallagher will be a big loss. Been playing very well this year. But that's why you've a squad. We're not talking Michael Murphy or Karl Lacey in terms of being irreplaceable here.
Quote from: J70 on July 08, 2012, 04:59:41 PM
Its hard to believe the turnaround all right. Ten or eleven of the current first fifteen started in Crossmaglen two years ago. Many of them played against Cork in 2009, although given the power and athleticism of Cork that day and the fact that it was Donegal's fourth week out in a row, I wouldn't hold that game against them TOO much. And then a few would have played in the collapses against Tyrone and Monaghan in 2007. I couldn't see those types of hammerings and surrenders happening to this current team, despite the common personnel. Its all down to McGuinness.
totally, we are so lucky to have him. we are blessed!
tyrone and armagh were awful days. but, out of defeats like those, mcguinness got the gig. although he created the opportunity for himself with his track record, it still took foresight to go with him. it's hard to fully appreciate how good he's been. getting the experienced players to sign up to what he wanted and gradually blooding the younger lads like mcbrearty and mcloone, developing our tactics, when we never really had any before, to a point were they can now change things up and tweak things in games to counterattack what opponents are trying, the man has been awesome.
+ i really like the way he handles himself in the media. his qualities just shine through. long may he rein.
Quote from: J70 on July 08, 2012, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 08, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
I thought Jim had fix'd it that players were not involved in club games?
What is the feeling in Donegal if Gallagher can't play, I have said he was a key component in the overall strategy??
They called off a round of championship games this weekend at McGuinness' request.
Gallagher will be a big loss. Been playing very well this year. But that's why you've a squad. We're not talking Michael Murphy or Karl Lacey in terms of being irreplaceable here.
the bench is a really important part of our game now. another thing that we never had going on before that we do now.
feel for gallagher. all that graft. hopefully he'll make it though.
Novenas being said for a Donegal win, I hate the thought of the other hoors winning the Ulster, feckin hate the thoughts of it. >:(
Quote from: stew on July 08, 2012, 11:20:42 PM
Novenas being said for a Donegal win, I hate the thought of the other hoors winning the Ulster, feckin hate the thoughts of it. >:(
Stew if I were you I'd stick a few hundred on red (and black) - that way you're a winner no matter the result..
Saw a 12th bonfire just off the donegal road in belfast with a down flag on the top. Maybe there are actual donegal fans on the donegal road :)
Or could there be some sort of mix up involving the "red hands" ?
Regarding Garvey's Appeal - Did I read yesterdays Irish News correctly......?
It stated that the Down County Board did not submit the fee for lodging an appeal in time??
Was there an admin error here or a lack of funds??
Interesting either way, I would have thought we would be doing all we could to get this overturned...
WFS
Quote from: waitingforsam on July 13, 2012, 09:08:51 AM
Regarding Garvey's Appeal - Did I read yesterdays Irish News correctly......?
It stated that the Down County Board did not submit the fee for lodging an appeal in time??
Was there an admin error here or a lack of funds??
Interesting either way, I would have thought we would be doing all we could to get this overturned...
WFS
I was told this morning that the fee was due on the Sunday and the Down Co Board were prepared to go to Dublin on Sunday and pay it. But Croke Park agreed that it could be paid first thing Monday morning as there no CCC officials in on Sunday to accept payment. Then they told Garvey that the fee wasn't sent in on time when he sat down in front of the CCC.
Moral of the story...trust f**king nobody....
surely the moral of the story is - don't do the crime??
Quote from: J OGorman on July 13, 2012, 10:49:48 AM
surely the moral of the story is - don't do the crime??
I hope that you don't sit on judicial bench in your day job! ::) What happened to innocent until proven guilty? >:(
Charging players with an offence after the event has become a regular occurrence since live televised games. When it happened to Down (via Aidan Brannigan) after the Fermanagh game, both player and county took their punishment. This does not mean that Down should then be treated as a soft touch by the Croke Park administrators.
The whole point of an appeals process is to allow for a player to get cleared whenever he is innocent. Quite clearly in this case, Conor Garvey feels that he did not deliberately stamp an opponent, and he has a right to have an appeal heard.
Down are the only team so far this season to have this retrospective ban imposed in 100% of their championship games. At least one of the players have tweeted that there is a perception of an anti Down bias with the powers that be. Whether that is true or not, this red tape stroke by the CCC does nothing to alleviate that notion.
Looked a clear stamp to me when I saw it.
That aside, losing the appeal on this manner is a joke, and not in a funny way
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
bad enough that he'll be out for the entire championship, or is it too early to say?
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
were did you hear this is it 100% as i was reading a bit online today and it said david walsh and neil gallagher were the only injury doubts we have now and both were expected to play in the final. if its true that hes out will be a big loss for us he playing some great stuff this year
What are the ticket prices for Sunday week? Looking forward to an entertaining and hopefully another tactical battle.
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
were did you hear this is it 100% as i was reading a bit online today and it said david walsh and neil gallagher were the only injury doubts we have now and both were expected to play in the final. if its true that hes out will be a big loss for us he playing some great stuff this year
The democrat had it today with quotes from big Jim so I'd say it's fairly solid.
Cadence, not sure if it's for the summer or not. Fracture could take a while though. It's tough on him cause he was playing as well as he ever has.
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 08:54:50 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
were did you hear this is it 100% as i was reading a bit online today and it said david walsh and neil gallagher were the only injury doubts we have now and both were expected to play in the final. if its true that hes out will be a big loss for us he playing some great stuff this year
The democrat had it today with quotes from big Jim so I'd say it's fairly solid.
Cadence, not sure if it's for the summer or not. Fracture could take a while though. It's tough on him cause he was playing as well as he ever has.
never seen it anything i could find about his injury was them saying no broken bones and only ligament damage. bit surprised that they saying now that their is a fracture surely the xray he got done in letterkenny after the injury would of picked that up. he be a big loss now
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 11:00:19 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 08:54:50 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
were did you hear this is it 100% as i was reading a bit online today and it said david walsh and neil gallagher were the only injury doubts we have now and both were expected to play in the final. if its true that hes out will be a big loss for us he playing some great stuff this year
The democrat had it today with quotes from big Jim so I'd say it's fairly solid.
Cadence, not sure if it's for the summer or not. Fracture could take a while though. It's tough on him cause he was playing as well as he ever has.
never seen it anything i could find about his injury was them saying no broken bones and only ligament damage. bit surprised that they saying now that their is a fracture surely the xray he got done in letterkenny after the injury would of picked that up. he be a big loss now
Saw it on twitter earlier
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=501462606546806&id=112739298752474
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 11:22:15 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 11:00:19 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 08:54:50 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on July 13, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on July 13, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Big Neil definitely out for the final. Slight fracture and ligament damage in his ankle. We'll miss him. I'd expect Bradley and Kavanagh to play midfield with McElhinney coming in.
were did you hear this is it 100% as i was reading a bit online today and it said david walsh and neil gallagher were the only injury doubts we have now and both were expected to play in the final. if its true that hes out will be a big loss for us he playing some great stuff this year
The democrat had it today with quotes from big Jim so I'd say it's fairly solid.
Cadence, not sure if it's for the summer or not. Fracture could take a while though. It's tough on him cause he was playing as well as he ever has.
never seen it anything i could find about his injury was them saying no broken bones and only ligament damage. bit surprised that they saying now that their is a fracture surely the xray he got done in letterkenny after the injury would of picked that up. he be a big loss now
Saw it on twitter earlier
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=501462606546806&id=112739298752474
thats a big loss to us neil was having the best season in a donegal jersey this year. might struggle to get back for the next game after the final as well
Not good. One of those things.... You just have to get on with it now. He's a loss, but the way we play these days has to be an effective way of absorbing these types of losses. I hope it ie anyway.
This morning's draw offers a reasonable chance for the loser to progress even with the 6 day turnaround.... or at least the loser avoids all the big teams in the next round :)
We owe Tipp for the Div 3 league final from a few years back and I guess Antrim would love nothing better than to get at Down. :P
Has anyone heard if we have Garvey or not yet?
Great new for Down supporters. Danny, Benny and Dan are fully fit. Collingwood have released Marty and Caolan and Garvey's appeal will be upheld.
Couldn't ask for more than that. Maybe now we have a chance! ;D 8)
We could ask for magic, everlasting fountain of youth potion for Blaney, Linden, Doherty and O'Neill ........ ;D
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on July 17, 2012, 09:49:30 PM
Great new for Down supporters. Danny, Benny and Dan are fully fit. Collingwood have released Marty and Caolan and Garvey's appeal will be upheld.
Couldn't ask for more than that. Maybe now we have a chance! ;D 8)
don't tell me... you're being falsely modest on an internet forum to try to make those connected to the oppostion overly confident in the hope that it will rub off on their team.
good luck on sunday!
The Down team that played 1st half against Monaghan V the Donegal team that played 2nd half against Tyrone.. hammering match! But of course it'll be closer than that, Donegal will play their usual awful game, grind down the Down men, get a couple of points between the 50th and 60th min and then hang on for dear life for the last 10.
Hope Down can beat the McGuinness defence force them but can't see it.
Down defence are poor, even with Garvey and Gordon won't make that much of a difference. Murphy and McFadden will be much too powerful. At the other end Benny Coulter and Laverty won't count under the blanket.
Both managers are astute and react quickly to game patterns, so it's even steven on that score.
Donegal to win by 4 - 5 points.
Here's Mickey Linden's take on the Ulster Final. He scored the goal when they met in the '91 Final tho typically he gives the credit to Greg Blaney. There's some action here as well from Newry Shamrocks (Mickey is their manager) against Rostrevor and a handy hat-trick of goals. http://tinyurl.com/d8g5o9m (http://tinyurl.com/d8g5o9m)
Have to say that looking at the bookies odds its hard to fathom how Down could be rated 4/1 shots to win this match. Bet of the weekend.
Really cant see anything other than a win for Donegal unless Down score 3+ goals. I honestly think Donegal are well set to win the All Ireland this year with their slightly more attacking style from 12 months ago. ( Its still hard to watch though).
Quote from: yellowcard on July 18, 2012, 10:36:20 PM
Have to say that looking at the bookies odds its hard to fathom how Down could be rated 4/1 shots to win this match. Bet of the weekend.
Bookies don't often get it wrong.
I agree that 4/1 is too big in a 2 horse race.
Down could be bet of the weekend in terms of value alright. 4/1 to your money is good odds.
Mr Power has gone to 7/2.
Where all is 4/1 still to be had?
Quote from: orangeman on July 18, 2012, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 18, 2012, 10:36:20 PM
Have to say that looking at the bookies odds its hard to fathom how Down could be rated 4/1 shots to win this match. Bet of the weekend.
Bookies don't often get it wrong.
I agree that 4/1 is too big in a 2 horse race.
Down could be bet of the weekend in terms of value alright. 4/1 to your money is good odds.
Monaghan minors are the same odds and both are expected to lose by 4+ points this Sunday.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 18, 2012, 11:40:09 PM
Mr Power has gone to 7/2.
Where all is 4/1 still to be had?
Ladbrokes are 4/1.
Down HT/FT 9/1. I might put a few quid on, i'd be confident enough of us winning but to do so I would imagine we'll need a decent start.
Even if Donegal were to beat Down on Sunday, and go on to win the AI, it will not change the fact that they are not a good team. They win ugly, albeit within the rules. Outside of Donegal, who would pay money to watch them. No flair,limited skills and a win at all cost cynicism. If God forbid this proves successful and other Counties hungry for success adopt this model, it will lead to the death of Gaelic Football as a popular spectator sport. Indeed it would also be a very unattractive sport for young people to take up. I believe that Down will win on Sunday, because we have the better footballers, but if it is not to be our Day, i would rather lose than play like Donegal.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 19, 2012, 01:13:00 AM
Even if Donegal were to beat Down on Sunday, and go on to win the AI, it will not change the fact that they are not a good team. They win ugly, albeit within the rules. Outside of Donegal, who would pay money to watch them. No flair,limited skills and a win at all cost cynicism. If God forbid this proves successful and other Counties hungry for success adopt this model, it will lead to the death of Gaelic Football as a popular spectator sport. Indeed it would also be a very unattractive sport for young people to take up. I believe that Down will win on Sunday, because we have the better footballers, but if it is not to be our Day, i would rather lose than play like Donegal.
What's the difference between Donegal and Dublin's methods??
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2012, 01:26:50 AM
Quote from: Pangurban on July 19, 2012, 01:13:00 AM
Even if Donegal were to beat Down on Sunday, and go on to win the AI, it will not change the fact that they are not a good team. They win ugly, albeit within the rules. Outside of Donegal, who would pay money to watch them. No flair,limited skills and a win at all cost cynicism. If God forbid this proves successful and other Counties hungry for success adopt this model, it will lead to the death of Gaelic Football as a popular spectator sport. Indeed it would also be a very unattractive sport for young people to take up. I believe that Down will win on Sunday, because we have the better footballers, but if it is not to be our Day, i would rather lose than play like Donegal.
What's the difference between Donegal and Dublin's methods??
A goalkeeper than can score pressure free kicks?
No, a goalkeeper who can use up 2 minutes of match time for every free, without so much as a glance from the referee.
Looking back on these last few comments, there must be a few WUMs among them. I can fully accept the flaws in the Down team - but can't work out what Donegal have actually done to be considered a team on a higher level. They're a useful bunch of players, but they're no great team.
"donegal cynically murder a frail and defenseless old gaelic football in its bed for silverware: victim's death caused by asphyxiation at the hands of brutes."
"members of internet forum assisting gardai's investigations."
"but can't work out what Donegal have actually done to be considered a team on a higher level. "
Well winning 8 Championship games from their last 9 is pretty damn impressive. What they haven't done is beat a Cork/Kerry/Dublin - but in fairness they've only had 1 shot at any of them in those 9games.
Does anyone actually care about this game what with the Kerry v Tyrone game on the same weekend?
But they're on different days EC - so we can probably cope with 2 matches in the one weekend. It's like double jobbing.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 19, 2012, 01:13:00 AM
Even if Donegal were to beat Down on Sunday, and go on to win the AI, it will not change the fact that they are not a good team. They win ugly, albeit within the rules. Outside of Donegal, who would pay money to watch them. No flair,limited skills and a win at all cost cynicism. If God forbid this proves successful and other Counties hungry for success adopt this model, it will lead to the death of Gaelic Football as a popular spectator sport. Indeed it would also be a very unattractive sport for young people to take up. I believe that Down will win on Sunday, because we have the better footballers, but if it is not to be our Day, i would rather lose than play like Donegal.
How very Noble, you keep fighting the good fight ::)
Quote from: EC Unique on July 19, 2012, 09:22:21 AM
Does anyone actually care about this game what with the Kerry v Tyrone game on the same weekend?
By virtue of the fact that one is a provincial final, being televised live by various broadcasters on the prime-time sunday slot of 2pm, between two teams who have yet to be beaten in this years championship, and with significant silverware handed out to the winner...while the other is a third round qualifier match, slotted in at 5pm on a Saturday evening to keep TV3 sweet between two teams who have already been humbled in this years championship...I think the Donegal v Down game carries more prestige...
Not like you Tyrone ones to get get carried away with your own importance....
Quote from: wildrover on July 19, 2012, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on July 19, 2012, 09:22:21 AM
Does anyone actually care about this game what with the Kerry v Tyrone game on the same weekend?
By virtue of the fact that one is a provincial final, being televised live by various broadcasters on the prime-time sunday slot of 2pm, between two teams who have yet to be beaten in this years championship, and with significant silverware handed out to the winner...while the other is a third round qualifier match, slotted in at 5pm on a Saturday evening to keep TV3 sweet between two teams who have already been humbled in this years championship...I think the Donegal v Down game carries more prestige...
Not like you Tyrone ones to get get carried away with your own importance....
Come back here on Monday EC and tell me what the attendance was for both matches and then we'll discuss which game people care more about!
I have to confess as a neutral that I am more looking forward to the Kerry v Tyrone game due to the fact that it will be a better game of football and largely because of the history between the 2 counties. Any game involving Donegal tends to be a grinding dour affair. Also the provincial championships, whilst important in their own right, especially to counties like Down who haven't won one in a while, are really only a means to an end for the big hitters.
Media criticism of Donegal is not dissimilar to that which surrounded Tyrone back in the day.
And like sheep, people will parrot those opinions as their own as they lack the ability to think critically for themselves.
The old media is directed by people of a certain age, filled with nostalgia for the 70s and Kerry's Golden Years and their one-sided rivalry with Dublin. That, and servicing major population centres is what drives mainstream media coverage. (Hence inordinate focus on teams like Kildare, Meath and even Wicklow when Micko was there.)
Any team, like Donegal today and Tyrone before them, that doesn't fit into the mainstream media's narrative is set up to be torn down.
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
I've put together a tactical preview of the game here http://action81.com/blog/?p=5986
Quote from: JHume on July 19, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Media criticism of Donegal is not dissimilar to that which surrounded Tyrone back in the day.
And like sheep, people will parrot those opinions as their own as they lack the ability to think critically for themselves.
The old media is directed by people of a certain age, filled with nostalgia for the 70s and Kerry's Golden Years and their one-sided rivalry with Dublin. That, and servicing major population centres is what drives mainstream media coverage. (Hence inordinate focus on teams like Kildare, Meath and even Wicklow when Micko was there.)
Any team, like Donegal today and Tyrone before them, that doesn't fit into the mainstream media's narrative is set up to be torn down.
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
Nail on the head. People tend to just regurgitate whatever they read in the paper.
I for one love watching Donegal play. Fair enough at times it's not the prettiest but the intensity and workrate is a joy to behold. The atmosphere at the Donegal/Kildare qf last year was immense and was probably the best I have witness outside of following Armagh.
Should make for an interesting game with the contrasting styles between Donegal and Down. I feel Down will really need to be on song both in attack and defence to stand any chance, but that's not beyond them, their semi v Monaghan should really stand to them.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 19, 2012, 06:07:23 AM
I can fully accept the flaws in the Down team - but can't work out what Donegal have actually done to be considered a team on a higher level. They're a useful bunch of players, but they're no great team.
Won Ulster for a start. Addressed their defensive inadequacies. Came up with a gameplan which makes them one of the most difficult teams to beat. Adhere's to this gameplan religiously. Argubably playing to their full potential, if not beyond.
None of which this current Down team has done/is doing.
Quote from: JHume on July 19, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Media criticism of Donegal is not dissimilar to that which surrounded Tyrone back in the day.
And like sheep, people will parrot those opinions as their own as they lack the ability to think critically for themselves.
The old media is directed by people of a certain age, filled with nostalgia for the 70s and Kerry's Golden Years and their one-sided rivalry with Dublin. That, and servicing major population centres is what drives mainstream media coverage. (Hence inordinate focus on teams like Kildare, Meath and even Wicklow when Micko was there.)
Any team, like Donegal today and Tyrone before them, that doesn't fit into the mainstream media's narrative is set up to be torn down.
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
Yes the outrage is over the top but it's not pretty to watch and anyone who says it is . . . well I dunno. Yes it's interesting and intriguing but it's not what I pay my license or entrance fee for. Their match against Dublin last year was appalling stuff, and I hold Dublin equally as culpable for that!
Having said that I don't blame them. If that's the best way for them to win it and they play 'within the rules' if not within the spirit that's their prerogative.
It's up to other teams to find ways around the system with a more attacking brand of football. This will happen I have no doubt as it did with football and the resurgence of Barcelona and Spain in soccer but I think Donegal are a team on a mission and will not be far away at all come September. Had Karl Lacey not gone off last year I think it would have been a very different Championship last year!
I have no problem with a team putting in place a method that maximises their chance of winning. That is completely acceptable even if it doesn't allow skilful talents to fully express themselves. Ask Greece or Chelsea are they disappointed that in winning major trophies their teams were less entertaining than the opposition?
I do have a problem with teams developing systems that are not "within the rules". Donegal do two things that are systematic but outside the rules. These are small things that actually cumulatively have an enormous effect. That's one of McGuinnes's greatest atributes - finding small things that give disproportionate advantages.
1. Donegal have a policy of slowing down every free kick. The punishment for this is the ball being advanced 13m and 13m again if it is repeated. the problem referees face is that they do it every time and it is tough for a referee to advance the ball every single time as he would start to get serious abuse both on an off the pitch. But what we need is a brave ref who will do it and keep doing it until they get the message (I think it would only take 15-20 minutes)
2. Donegal have a policy of running in to the opposition ball carrier. When an opposition player gets the ball, a Donegal player will run at him and indeed into him. He does not wrap him up and does not drag or pull the player. He simply runs into him. Then he steps back and starts to defend as best he can. This has the effect of slowing down the player but without the obvious dragging that would trigger a free. It is just enough contact to impede the player and allow the defence to organise their positions but not enough to encourage most referees to award a free. It is cunning but against the rules. It is not an accident which indeed should go unpunished; it is a deliberate charge (just not a very powerful or dangerous one). As it is systematic the referees should be told to punish it. Again the same applies as above, it is tough for a referee to award a free every single time as he would start to get serious abuse both on an off the pitch. It would seem he is being overly fussy. There is a rule to allow a player to be slowed down, it is the shoulder charge. The shoulder charge isn't there to hurt people or even knock them over, it is intended really just to slow someone down/knock them off stride in an acceptable fashion. But it is much easier to run into a fellow with your chest. The skill of the shoulder charge is being circumvented by Donegal by replacing it with a full frontal charge instead.
Quote from: JHume on July 19, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
You didn't actually take that stuff seriously, did you?
Yerra.
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 19, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
2. Donegal have a policy of running in to the opposition ball carrier. When an opposition player gets the ball, a Donegal player will run at him and indeed into him. He does not wrap him up and does not drag or pull the player. He simply runs into him. Then he steps back and starts to defend as best he can. This has the effect of slowing down the player but without the obvious dragging that would trigger a free. It is just enough contact to impede the player and allow the defence to organise their positions but not enough to encourage most referees to award a free. It is cunning but against the rules. It is not an accident which indeed should go unpunished; it is a deliberate charge (just not a very powerful or dangerous one). As it is systematic the referees should be told to punish it. Again the same applies as above, it is tough for a referee to award a free every single time as he would start to get serious abuse both on an off the pitch. It would seem he is being overly fussy. There is a rule to allow a player to be slowed down, it is the shoulder charge. The shoulder charge isn't there to hurt people or even knock them over, it is intended really just to slow someone down/knock them off stride in an acceptable fashion. But it is much easier to run into a fellow with your chest. The skill of the shoulder charge is being circumvented by Donegal by replacing it with a full frontal charge instead.
I am not sure whether Donegal have employed this 'tactic' systematically or not. To me it simply sounds like tackling and the ability to hold up a player in possession, and I am not sure where the rules deem this illegal. It seems that you believe the only form of acceptable contact, within the rules, is the shoulder charge? If that is the case then every single team in Ireland performs this 'illegal tactic.' Albeit maybe not quite as well as Donegal.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 19, 2012, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: JHume on July 19, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Media criticism of Donegal is not dissimilar to that which surrounded Tyrone back in the day.
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
Nail on the head. People tend to just regurgitate whatever they read in the paper.
I for one love watching Donegal play. Fair enough at times it's not the prettiest but the intensity and workrate is a joy to behold. The atmosphere at the Donegal/Kildare qf last year was immense and was probably the best I have witness outside of following Armagh.
Should make for an interesting game with the contrasting styles between Donegal and Down. I feel Down will really need to be on song both in attack and defence to stand any chance, but that's not beyond them, their semi v Monaghan should really stand to them.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 19, 2012, 06:07:23 AM
I can fully accept the flaws in the Down team - but can't work out what Donegal have actually done to be considered a team on a higher level. They're a useful bunch of players, but they're no great team.
Won Ulster for a start. Addressed their defensive inadequacies. Came up with a gameplan which makes them one of the most difficult teams to beat. Adhere's to this gameplan religiously. Argubably playing to their full potential, if not beyond.
None of which this current Down team has done/is doing.
It is not worth paying money to watch Donegal. The football reminds me of those body sculpturists trapped in their own parallel logic.
http://www.michaeltabban.com.au/images/Angeafterforweb.jpg
13 players behind the halfway line as standard.
They stretch the rules and often go beyond the rules. So the rules need a change. No back passing to the goalie. Max 3 passes before the ball has to be kicked or something.
Take out the cynicism from the game. Anyone who fouls more than 3 times gets a yellow card.
Last year Spillane and O Rourke were visibly relieved that the borgs didn't make it to the sacred All Ireland final. But they will sometime. And Tyrone and Armagh started it
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 19, 2012, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: JHume on July 19, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
Media criticism of Donegal is not dissimilar to that which surrounded Tyrone back in the day.
And like sheep, people will parrot those opinions as their own as they lack the ability to think critically for themselves.
The old media is directed by people of a certain age, filled with nostalgia for the 70s and Kerry's Golden Years and their one-sided rivalry with Dublin. That, and servicing major population centres is what drives mainstream media coverage. (Hence inordinate focus on teams like Kildare, Meath and even Wicklow when Micko was there.)
Any team, like Donegal today and Tyrone before them, that doesn't fit into the mainstream media's narrative is set up to be torn down.
Ironically, Darragh Ó Sé's column in yesterday's Irish Times showed how much respect the Kerry team had for Tyrone, even while the cheerleaders in the media were knocking them.
Nail on the head. People tend to just regurgitate whatever they read in the paper.
I for one love watching Donegal play. Fair enough at times it's not the prettiest but the intensity and workrate is a joy to behold. The atmosphere at the Donegal/Kildare qf last year was immense and was probably the best I have witness outside of following Armagh.
Should make for an interesting game with the contrasting styles between Donegal and Down. I feel Down will really need to be on song both in attack and defence to stand any chance, but that's not beyond them, their semi v Monaghan should really stand to them.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 19, 2012, 06:07:23 AM
I can fully accept the flaws in the Down team - but can't work out what Donegal have actually done to be considered a team on a higher level. They're a useful bunch of players, but they're no great team.
Won Ulster for a start. Addressed their defensive inadequacies. Came up with a gameplan which makes them one of the most difficult teams to beat. Adhere's to this gameplan religiously. Argubably playing to their full potential, if not beyond.
None of which this current Down team has done/is doing.
(look away cadance, nothing for you to see here ;-) )
Donegal reach the final again this year, you'll be sick of the sight of the 14 man defence
Quote from: Lucifer on July 19, 2012, 03:11:56 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 19, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
2. Donegal have a policy of running in to the opposition ball carrier. When an opposition player gets the ball, a Donegal player will run at him and indeed into him. He does not wrap him up and does not drag or pull the player. He simply runs into him. Then he steps back and starts to defend as best he can. This has the effect of slowing down the player but without the obvious dragging that would trigger a free. It is just enough contact to impede the player and allow the defence to organise their positions but not enough to encourage most referees to award a free. It is cunning but against the rules. It is not an accident which indeed should go unpunished; it is a deliberate charge (just not a very powerful or dangerous one). As it is systematic the referees should be told to punish it. Again the same applies as above, it is tough for a referee to award a free every single time as he would start to get serious abuse both on an off the pitch. It would seem he is being overly fussy. There is a rule to allow a player to be slowed down, it is the shoulder charge. The shoulder charge isn't there to hurt people or even knock them over, it is intended really just to slow someone down/knock them off stride in an acceptable fashion. But it is much easier to run into a fellow with your chest. The skill of the shoulder charge is being circumvented by Donegal by replacing it with a full frontal charge instead.
I am not sure whether Donegal have employed this 'tactic' systematically or not. To me it simply sounds like tackling and the ability to hold up a player in possession, and I am not sure where the rules deem this illegal. It seems that you believe the only form of acceptable contact, within the rules, is the shoulder charge? If that is the case then every single team in Ireland performs this 'illegal tactic.' Albeit maybe not quite as well as Donegal.
There is NOTHING left to chance on that team every single thing they do on that pitch has been introduced, coached, implemented, tweaked and then implemented again to near perfection in McGuinness' eyes.
Paul's analysis would seem to be spot on and fair play to him for noticing something I didn't see. It's no secret that refereeing in our game is probably at an all time low and it was only a matter of time until a team took full advantage of this huge weakness!!
Rumour has it that Kevin Mc Kernan is lining out in midfield on sunday and King is dropping to the bench... this would be interesting ploy - but he dont mark a player anyhow so no great loss defensively... Liam Doyle to also start and drop back in a sweeper role..
Quote from: EC Unique on July 19, 2012, 09:22:21 AM
Does anyone actually care about this game what with the Kerry v Tyrone game on the same weekend?
Yes. Will be more people at the game in Clones than Killarney.
ah c'mon, donegal tackle the same as every other team, we just have an overall system to implement our tackling within now. if you think about it, it is nigh on impossible to not make contact with an attacking player with your chest when the ball is shielded. contact is unavoidable in this instance. and it's a contact sport that allows strength and power in tackling. there is nothing untoward happening only one player trying to shield the ball and another trying to get at it.
there's so much anti-donegal feeling going around that the criticisms are reaching levels of myth. you don't like how we play... fine. but stop your nammin'. jesus.
Quote from: seafoid on July 19, 2012, 03:53:15 PM
13 players behind the halfway line as standard.
They stretch the rules and often go beyond the rules. So the rules need a change. No back passing to the goalie. Max 3 passes before the ball has to be kicked or something.
Are you taking the piss? How can you stretch or go beyond the lack of a rule against passing back to the goalie? Also similarly 3 handpasses in a row??! Ffs wise up.
I love watching them, watching them open up against tyone was great, and down at 10/1 still wouldnt be the bet of the weekend.
Quote from: alba2 on July 19, 2012, 05:12:43 PM
Rumour has it that Kevin Mc Kernan is lining out in midfield on sunday and King is dropping to the bench... this would be interesting ploy - but he dont mark a player anyhow so no great loss defensively... Liam Doyle to also start and drop back in a sweeper role..
Where are you hearing this from? Would be interesting to say the least. I wander will Gordon then line out somewhere around the middle/half forward line instead of the FB line.
Team may well be named tonight, intrigued as to how James will approach this one. Watched the full 70 mins of Donegal's last two matches and the lack of room they allow the opponent's FFs in unbelievable. For example every time Mulligan/O'Neill got the ball they either lost it, had to play the ball back out the field or ended up shooting under pressure from a silly angle.
They seem to pull away from teams in the last 20 mins also. We really need to take each chance we get. Free takers cannot afford to be missing kickable frees as they may well be the difference.
Quote from: emmetryan on July 19, 2012, 12:51:38 PM
I've put together a tactical preview of the game here http://action81.com/blog/?p=5986
almost missed this... nice one emmet!
This will be the most one sided final since 1999. Down fans will be back in Newry to see the start of the Leinster final.
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 19, 2012, 06:13:19 PM
This will be the most one sided final since 1999. Down fans will be back in Newry to see the start of the Leinster final.
"Nothing beats being there". Of course Armagh are not able to say that this summer.
Good to see that you still have an image of the great former Down captain, agent o
Quote from: cadence on July 19, 2012, 06:06:29 PM
Quote from: emmetryan on July 19, 2012, 12:51:38 PM
I've put together a tactical preview of the game here http://action81.com/blog/?p=5986
almost missed this... nice one emmet!
Thanks!
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 19, 2012, 06:13:19 PM
This will be the most one sided final since 1999. Down fans will be back in Newry to see the start of the Leinster final.
Cheers for that Agent Orange, indeed if Down win by the margin you suggest I may even book a room in the CC for the night !!
QuoteCheers for that Agent Orange, indeed if Down win by the margin you suggest
If Down win by the margin suggested, I will purchase and wear a Down jersey.
And post a picture on gaaboard ?
Down team named to play Donegal
1 Brendan Mc Veigh
2 Daniel Mc Cartan 3 Brendan Mc Cardle 4 Darren O Hagan
5 Daniel Hughes 6 Dan Gordon 7 Aidan Brannagan
8 Ambrose Rodgers 9 Kevin Mc Kernan
10 Donal O Hare 11 Mark Poland 12 Aidan Carr
13 Brendan Coulter 14 Conor Laverty 15 Eoin mc Cartan
Strange decisions at 5 and 10. Least we won't have to worry about mckernans man gettin alot of free space in the forward line. Also surprised at king, thought he was one of the players of the second half v Monaghan
What is the logic in dropping King???
Does McCartan stick to his named line ups?
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2012, 10:14:47 PM
Does McCartan stick to his named line ups?
Going on experience that lineup could very well be 'subject to change.'
it'll be strange to see danny hughes playing with no.5 on his back.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 19, 2012, 01:13:00 AM
Even if Donegal were to beat Down on Sunday, and go on to win the AI, it will not change the fact that they are not a good team. They win ugly, albeit within the rules. Outside of Donegal, who would pay money to watch them. No flair,limited skills and a win at all cost cynicism. If God forbid this proves successful and other Counties hungry for success adopt this model, it will lead to the death of Gaelic Football as a popular spectator sport. Indeed it would also be a very unattractive sport for young people to take up. I believe that Down will win on Sunday, because we have the better footballers, but if it is not to be our Day, i would rather lose than play like Donegal.
In fairness, what lifts a counties spirits more than always losing ? :D In donegal we didnt win for 19 years and they were without doubt better then last year when we on ulster again and got to the semi's!!!!! And whats gets children out proud in their county colours better than the senior county team losing??!! And what wud draw a child to something like a gaa camp better than the oppurtunity to meet their hero's who... won nothing compared to the anglo celt to bring to the kids. And without doubt i know every footballer in the county LOVES putting in the hard time and effort they do to get no reward at the end of it. Training 4 times a week, gym sessions everyday, controlled diets and sleep patterns, time away from famillies and partners to go out and lose is the way go lads ;)
Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2012, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 19, 2012, 03:11:56 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 19, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
2. Donegal have a policy of running in to the opposition ball carrier. When an opposition player gets the ball, a Donegal player will run at him and indeed into him. He does not wrap him up and does not drag or pull the player. He simply runs into him. Then he steps back and starts to defend as best he can. This has the effect of slowing down the player but without the obvious dragging that would trigger a free. It is just enough contact to impede the player and allow the defence to organise their positions but not enough to encourage most referees to award a free. It is cunning but against the rules. It is not an accident which indeed should go unpunished; it is a deliberate charge (just not a very powerful or dangerous one). As it is systematic the referees should be told to punish it. Again the same applies as above, it is tough for a referee to award a free every single time as he would start to get serious abuse both on an off the pitch. It would seem he is being overly fussy. There is a rule to allow a player to be slowed down, it is the shoulder charge. The shoulder charge isn't there to hurt people or even knock them over, it is intended really just to slow someone down/knock them off stride in an acceptable fashion. But it is much easier to run into a fellow with your chest. The skill of the shoulder charge is being circumvented by Donegal by replacing it with a full frontal charge instead.
I am not sure whether Donegal have employed this 'tactic' systematically or not. To me it simply sounds like tackling and the ability to hold up a player in possession, and I am not sure where the rules deem this illegal. It seems that you believe the only form of acceptable contact, within the rules, is the shoulder charge? If that is the case then every single team in Ireland performs this 'illegal tactic.' Albeit maybe not quite as well as Donegal.
There is NOTHING left to chance on that team every single thing they do on that pitch has been introduced, coached, implemented, tweaked and then implemented again to near perfection in McGuinness' eyes.
Paul's analysis would seem to be spot on and fair play to him for noticing something I didn't see. It's no secret that refereeing in our game is probably at an all time low and it was only a matter of time until a team took full advantage of this huge weakness!!
So Donegal are the first team to take full advantage of refereeing 'weakness?' (Personally I feel the weakness equally lies with the rules.) What about Armagh in 2002 'checking the runner?' Or the Tyrone 2003 'swarm?' Did they not take full advantage of a weakness (i.e. other teams had applied these tactics before but not in such a systematic way?) This is not even mentioning the likes of the Meath teams in the late 80's and 90's. My point is that Donegal are not the first to take advantage of a poor definition of the tackle and the subsequent inconsistent application of it (nor other aspects of the rules.) Donegal are indeed pushing the boundaries, but they are not the first team to do this (they are simply the most obvious exponents currently.) If you were in Casement Park for St Galls v Crossmaglen you would have seen another side exemplary in doing this.
In regards to the policy of 'running into the opposition ball carrier' I have some thoughts. Firstly you commend Paul on seeing something that you have not, but how can you affirm this if you have not seen Donegal play since? (Pedantic I know, but it is a valid point.) I agree nothing is left to chance, however I feel there is too much hyperbole attached to everything Donegal do. Are they trying to slow the opposition down? Most certainly. A lot of teams employ this tactic and Donegal are very good at it. However it is not specific to Donegal. I have played and trained under-age teams where we attempt to slow the opposition down. Unfortunately it is part and parcel of our game, and not a tactic invented by Jim McGuinness and co. Employed by them, yes (and by many others) but it was not engineered by Donegal, they are merely another team to take advantage of it. Personally I don't see how it is outside the rules of the games, and the furore that surrounds such a tactic, is as much a by- product of the distaste towards Donegals overall style of play (as the tactic is not new IMO.)
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 19, 2012, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 19, 2012, 06:13:19 PM
This will be the most one sided final since 1999. Down fans will be back in Newry to see the start of the Leinster final.
Cheers for that Agent Orange, indeed if Down win by the margin you suggest I may even book a room in the CC for the night !!
Down will be on the end of another hammering in Clones. You'll be heading for the CC about 2.30. This crop of Down players have never won a final at senior level.
McKernan at midfield lol
ah sure if we get beat we get beat. We will probably still get to a QF. How are Armagh getting on? Long summer eh waiting on your neighbours to get beat
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 19, 2012, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 19, 2012, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 19, 2012, 06:13:19 PM
This will be the most one sided final since 1999. Down fans will be back in Newry to see the start of the Leinster final.
Cheers for that Agent Orange, indeed if Down win by the margin you suggest I may even book a room in the CC for the night !!
Down will be on the end of another hammering in Clones. You'll be heading for the CC about 2.30. This crop of Down players have never won a final at senior level.
McKernan at midfield lol
Kernan sitting on his ass watching it at home lol
OK, need confirmation of stadium layout in Clones:
Gerry Arthurs stand is the covered one.
Pat McGrane - seats in front of the hill.
So which is the O'Duffy terrace and which is the Eastern stand?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2012, 12:53:03 AM
OK, need confirmation of stadium layout in Clones:
Gerry Arthurs stand is the covered one.
Pat McGrane - seats in front of the hill.
So which is the O'Duffy terrace and which is the Eastern stand?
If you are sitting in the Gerry Arthurs stand, the O'Duffy terrace is behind the goals on your right. The Eastern stand is at the opposite end.
Thanks, AO.
Down fans will be along shortly looking for directions to Clones. ;)
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 20, 2012, 01:29:27 AM
Down fans will be along shortly looking for directions to Clones. ;)
If I were a supporter of a team that just got put out the championship by Roscommon in a first round qualifier I wouldn't be making snide comments about another county's supporters.
I'd say James is acting the cod with that named team. I find it very difficult to believe king won't start if fit.
Likewise Hughes, mckernan and ohare unlikely to start where they are named.
Can't see both benny and eoin McCartan starting.
The gaa needs to start introducing heavy fines for this nonsense.
It would be nice if we could get a picture up here of the Australian rules lads roaring Down to victory on Sunday.
I agree with WhiteGM that team looks completely unrealistic and looks like McCartan is playing a bit of codology hoping McGuinness isn't all that aware of our set up (I'm sure he is in fact very aware - probably knows what boot our players put on first)
What's interesting though is what exactly is James trying to convince McGuinness of? Basically he has named 7 forwards, 2 attacking midfielders, and two attacking half backs. The only defensively minded players are the full back line. Is Jamesy trying to convince McGuinness that Down are planning an all-out assault?
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2012, 11:43:53 AM
I agree with WhiteGM that team looks completely unrealistic and looks like McCartan is playing a bit of codology hoping McGuinness isn't all that aware of our set up (I'm sure he is in fact very aware - probably knows what boot our players put on first)
What's interesting though is what exactly is James trying to convince McGuinness of? Basically he has named 7 forwards, 2 attacking midfielders, and two attacking half backs. The only defensively minded players are the full back line. Is Jamesy trying to convince McGuinness that Down are planning an all-out assault?
He's just trying the old mind games.. I won't worry too much. Jim is the king of mind games shur ;) ;)
Playing Danny Hughes in half backline would makes sense if he becomes the free man.
Alternatively it could be he is injured and King goes to midfield with McKernan becoming the free half back.
Sure Donegal are so much better than Down that it makes no difference where they play anyway.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2012, 12:53:03 AM
OK, need confirmation of stadium layout in Clones:
Gerry Arthurs stand is the covered one.
Pat McGrane - seats in front of the hill.
So which is the O'Duffy terrace and which is the Eastern stand?
The O'Duffy Terrace is for Blueshirts only. ;)
OK, play games are over now and its time to come clean. Call me a typical overly confident Down fecker if you will but I believe my £50 @ 4/1 is a handsome bet. It feels like 91 all over again, a hopeless Down team v a hip, in-form Donegal squad and what happened?
If Down win I'll be buying in the Creighton afterwards. CU there. Come on Down and up Albania.
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=173772 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=173772)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Anyone see the back page of the Irish News supplement today? That's a quare foursome... :o
Always had my doubts about lads who wear white boots.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 20, 2012, 08:34:12 PM
Anyone see the back page of the Irish News supplement today? That's a quare foursome... :o
Always had my doubts about lads who wear white boots.
what is it ??
good luck to down players and management tomorrow. an dún abu!
I really truly hope that Down adjust their gameplay to suit playing v Donegal. I think dropping King is a smart decision. He simply doesn't have the running power to contribute in this type of game. It looks from the team selection James and Aidan have a plan.
I think Down will unfortunately lose this one and think the handicap is right I hope I am wrong! Simply don't don't have the running power that Donegal have. I think the middle sector will be crucial and it I hope Down have Key personnel in there and most importantly that we rotate/use the bench appropriately when people start to flag.
Anyways good luck Down - its been far too long since the last ulster title! I would be delighted for many on this team to get their hands on an ulster medal! An Dun Abu!
those were some digs the Down no7 was dishing out.
Plenty a diggin
Plenty of verbals too especially from Magee
Ahhhhhh.....Ulster football.....it's like a strong woody whiskey.
To some of us O'Neill it's more like hemlock!
Fine goal by Donegal in fairness they are a different gravy this year.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 22, 2012, 03:15:02 PM
Fine goal by Donegal in fairness they are a different gravy this year.
They have moved away from the ultra defensive stuff, fair play to them for realising that it wouldnt take them all the way. They are in with a real shout this year.
Oisin McGonville is some dope "I wouldn't write off down for the rest of the year".
Why Oisin you clown?
I could actually cry at the sheer inability of Down teams to learn from the past.
Our full back line has been hung out to dry this half.
Our midfield and half forwards gave up as soon as we went 6 behind.
We're playing the fittest team in Ireland and our management has played out the final 20 minutes with Coulter, Hughes, Maginn, McCartan, Rogers, Gordon and Doyle - a team full of injured or coming back from injury players.
Disgraceful.
had to laugh at the usual guff before the game " down are a different animal in finals, should never write them off, blah blah".
Tradition is only good if you keep it up like kerry. Down, like cavan have been shite for years, near 20 years without an ulster title says it all, and only been in 3 or 4 finals since that
Donegal for sam i hope
Is it too early to look foward to a potential All-Ireland deciding Cork v Donegal semi-final?
Great to see the crowd on at pitch!!!
Donegal were fantastic!
Well done and congrats Donegal. Hope you go all the way now.
If David Brady unbuttoned his shirt any further you would see his belly button.
Is that the pairings? cork v donegal, mayo v dublin ( with kerry and meath in the mix somewhere).
Wudnt mind cork getting a swipe at kerry in croker to see if they can do it, just hope its not the final as they'd shite themselves again.
Donegal v mayo final would be ideal
Masterful from Donegal. They tore Down a new one and played some great football to boot. Down were dreadful in the second half and were shown to be a limited outfit at this level. I really hope Donegal can push on and win the All Ireland. They are the only team capable of breaking up the big three IMO. Draíochta Tir Connaill.
Aiden o rourke brought a great defensive system to down this year, one of the super coaches mentioned by many for the armagh job. Or maybe the players just not good enough
Quote from: Orchardman on July 22, 2012, 04:13:17 PM
Aiden o rourke brought a great defensive system to down this year, one of the super coaches mentioned by many for the armagh job. Or maybe the players just not good enough
;D
Congrats to Donegal on what was an excellent victory.
Still not convinced they have what it takes to go all the way though.
Down showed that for the first 40mins that Donegal were no big shakes and the capitulation by them after the 2nd goal pretty much allowed for shooting practice for Donegal.
Funny how alot of the apple-munching brethern are on here like proverbial rats up a drainpipe right after the game to offer opinion.
Im just glad that Down are back in an ulster final again after so long in the wilderness after watching the kingpins of Ulster, Armagh dominate the game for so long throughout the last 20 years. Sure we know we are shite and just cannon-fodder but sure we just give it an oul lash anyway. Live to fight another day.
The bookies had it right marking Down up at 4/1. They were abysmal and Donegal never had to get out of 2nd gear. Hard to know exactly how good Donegal are after today but I suspect they will take a bit of beating.
Well done to Donegal. They are getting more watchable.
well, i enjoyed that. we kicked as much long ball, as quickly as possible, as we could and got into scoring positions before the down defence could get set up properly. once we got ahead, down had to commit more in attack and we capitalised. hope our lads have a celebratory pint or two. they'll be well deserved i thought we were killer in the second half. two-in-a-row!
best of luck to down against tip.
well done to donegal. well deserved victory. as for down what can you say. the 2nd half was as disjointed as i can remember from a down team. donegal were far superior, fitter and faster all over the field. thought at half time we still had a decent chance but after donegals 2nd goal the heads dropped. have to lift it somehow for tipp in 6 days time.
Down were fairly disjointed in the 1st half against Monaghan, too many people read into the 2nd half of that game as to how Down would perform in the final
Congrats and fair play to donegal, hope you go all the way, you are a formiddable side and will take some stopping now.
Well done to Donegal back to back Ulster titles is a fine achievement especially when you consider where they were before Jim McGuinness took over, goes to show what a good manager can do.
Congratulations to Donegal, who are the coming force in Gaelic games and are certainly entitled to be regarded as genuine AI contenders. It is verging on the astonishing that, with barely five minutes to go to the break, we were in front, had held them to two points and were actually largely in control of the game at that stage. As soon as we conceded a defensively poor goal, confidence spread through their team and they produced a level of football which was way ahead of anything we could attempt.
From our point of view, we realistically knew that we were some distance behind the leading contenders from the start of the season. We had a fairly long list of injuries, but the unavailability of Clarke and Mooney (both unavoidable) and McComiskey (something which should have been resolved) was a hammer blow. Staying in division one and getting to an Ulster final was a decent achievement in the circumstances, and we can be under no illusions about the scale of the gap we still need to bridge.
It was also evident that many of our players were struggling for fitness by the last quarter and some fresh legs will be necessary if we are to avoid a disheartening end to our year. The likes of McParland, Duffin and McConville have plenty to offer and deserve their chance next Saturday.
None of our substitutions worked today, apart from Eoin McCartan, so there is a clear need to shake things up. In fairness to our management, there was little they could do against the tidal wave we faced in the second half.
McVeigh will be disappointed to have been beaten twice, although both were smart finishes. His kick-outs were mostly reasonable, apart from a couple which put us under pressure, but it is already known that Harrison, who has a longer clearance and is a fine shot-stopper, is pushing him hard.
Dan McCartan did well in the first half, but ultimately could not cope with a top class opponent in McFadden who was given a fantastic supply line. Gordon was excellent during his time on Murphy, and largely dominated him, but was less effective when moved out the field as our overall display fell apart. McArdle was among our best performers, as usual, has the pace required at the back and even got up to support the attack.
McKernan, sadly, was a shadow of the player of a couple of years ago, and the lapse in concentration which led to the crucial first goal was not unexpected. He still covers a huge amount of ground and we managed to get worse after he was replaced. Branagan will run forever and is always available for a pass but may be more of a squad player than a starter. O'Hagan had some decent moments but was struggling like all the rest long before the end.
Ambrose tried his heart out, and his point might even have been a goal, but he is not a miracle worker and he lacked support as Donegal men appeared from all directions. King, apart from one fine catch, did not look himself, and may either have been carrying or picked up an injury.
Carr spend most of his time very effectively in our half, and it was a pity that a couple of long-range frees did not work out for him. His replacement was a surprise, and did not help us. It was wonderful to see Doyle back kicking elegant points and playing intelligent passes. He understandably tired, as one missed free showed, but it was his first championship start for over four years and he should hopefully be better again the next day. Poland had some brilliant runs, but only set up a couple of our scores and could not get into many dangerous positions.
O'Hare took one fine point, although he might have gone for goal, but is probably a year ahead of himself. With Benny, the choice was between starting our most inspirational figure in what may be his last Ulster final or waiting for the lift his appearance in the second half would have given us. It turned out that he was nowhere near full fitness and got a poor supply anyway. He was also lucky to avoid a red card after a rare moment of indiscipline when he responded to a series of off the ball shoulders with a punch to his marker's ribs. Laverty was targeted in a particularly cynical way by Donegal, with different defenders queueing up to foul him and the full back even escaping with a yellow for a stamp. He looked brilliant early on but he was a bit of a lost soul towards the end.
Eoin McCartan, as mentioned, clearly made a difference when he came on, but Maginn and Hughes were unable to get to grips with an opposing side which has set a standard well ahead of our present capabilities.
I'm still in a bit of shock at that second half.
At every level of football I've ever watched, there is a tendency for the team chasing the game to throw caution to the wind and drive forward en masse - even though all this ever does is reduce space at the end you're attacking, while opening space at your own end. It's human nature I suppose.
But I've never seen any other team throw caution so quickly and so pronounced as this Down team. We're football's equivalent of masochists.
Given that it's basically a semi-pro team, this is inexcusable. Our poor, poor full back line.
Congrats Donegal by the way; an outstanding display.
Threatened to become a very good match in the latter stages of the first half but Donegal are simply on another level. 3 points was as far as Down could let them get ahead so the second goal killed it. I was seriously impressed by Donegal, they've made real improvements from last year and look like genuine All-Ireland contenders at this stage. Thought Ryan Bradley was superb at midfield for Donegal. Their system is so hard to play against, its almost like rugby the way they attack in a line at times.
Dispiriting enough one for Down, realistically their Ulster championship is probably an accurate enough reflection of where they lie at the minute; better than mediocre outfits like Monaghan and Fermanagh but likely to fall short against the top sides. Is the Tipperary match in Newry now? Was glad to see Eoin McCartan doing well when he came on. Down probably needed the goals to have any chance but the best chance fell to O'Hare and he skyed it over the bar.
No word yet where the Tipperary v. Down game will be played, but it won't be Newry as neutral venues apply for Round 4 of the qualifiers.
Portloaise or possibly Navan Id guess.
There can be no argument over this one. We held them close for 35and but for the Donegal goal should have led at half time. The 2 nd half was a different story, Donegal had learn't all they need from the 1st and snuffed us out completely. We were pathetic, devoid of ideas in the 2nd half and when Donegal realised they had us about 50 mins in they used the game as a practice match. This shows great professionalism and so well done Donegal.
Still and all I had a great day barring the result. The atmosphere in Clones on Ulster final day is some thing else. Fans mixing so well together.
I also have to praise the Down fans I traveled with, including some doz Albanians who are gr8 craic. We enjoyed a party atmosphere in the Parador Bar until I had had enough and left 20 minutes ago. Were are great losers and don't let losing get in the way of a party.
Good luck to Donegal , your football has become much more enjoyable than last year.
Good job it's not in Tipperary.It's a long way there,apparently.
That was a serious statement of intent from Donegal. Granted Down were disappointing and looked like they rolled over a bit before the end but still to shoot 2-18 with 10 or 11 different scorers shows they have a greater range of scoring options that would have been assumed before the Championship.
Before there was maybe a perception that if you contained Murphy you could contain Donegal but he was relatively quite today but others stepped up to lead by example. Two to impress in particular are McHugh and Bradley who are displaying All Star form at the moment. Donegal are flexing their muscles more as an attacking force whilst looking as difficult to break down as ever at the back.
In fairness we have taken more than our fair share of stick from Downies and hell slap this loss up Down. I have nothing good to say about Down and i am glad every time they lose.
I think my opinion stems from when, after I had watched our minors lose the AI final to Meath, i was no sooner home than about twenty of my neighbours thought it would be a good idea to come to the door to give me stick about the worst loss in my lifetime as an Armagh supporter, I have hated Down ever since and will do until the day I die, you talk about rats up a drainpipe, I would say my neighbours in the point that did that to me that day were more like snakes in the grass.
;D
Cannot take that Arma keik on a day like this. Trust Arma to bring the tone down.
Guess the only answer to your impetulent rant and to Tony is: 5 up compared to one in a row is best.
Stick your chin out and someones sure to hit it.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 22, 2012, 09:22:41 PM
I'm still in a bit of shock at that second half.
At every level of football I've ever watched, there is a tendency for the team chasing the game to throw caution to the wind and drive forward en masse - even though all this ever does is reduce space at the end you're attacking, while opening space at your own end. It's human nature I suppose.
But I've never seen any other team throw caution so quickly and so pronounced as this Down team. We're football's equivalent of masochists.
Given that it's basically a semi-pro team, this is inexcusable. Our poor, poor full back line.
Congrats Donegal by the way; an outstanding display.
I was thinking this very thing early in the second half. It was suicide. Truthfully, it may not have made a difference to the result, but Down really didn't need to commit so many bodies forward at such an early stage and could have been much more competitive for longer IMO.
I thought the heads went down much, much too early in the second half.
Well done Donegal.
Unfortunately for Down they are and have been shown in the past to be a confidence team and so it was again yesterday. For that reason alone I'd dramactically change personnel for Saturday and let guys whos heads mightened be as down as the rest like McConville and Rooney have a big piece of the action.
It was very sad to see the once great Danny Hughes reduced to coming deep for ball only to dither and fail in our half of the field. I was reasonably happy with McCardle , the two Dans and O'Hagan, Doyle and Poland but the rest didn't do enough.
We very definitely failed to "pick the lock" but Donegal were only a door in the first half, in the second half they were a battering ram and the only way to beat a battering ram is to bring out a bigger battering ram.
Very glad I didn't take the tempting odds on offer, them dirty gg's always get it right!
We can still take tipp if we want it and I'll be there to lend what support I can. We will need 15,000 other down men and women to lift the boys head's again. Your county needs you. :)
I think if Down can get their heads right, they should beat Tipp. Tipp struggled to put away a poor enough Antrim side. Had Antrim beaten Tipp I'd have made Down firm favourites so they should have enough to beat Tipp.
A brilliant second half from Donegal. I'd say they could give it a right rattle the year!
Donegal very impressive alright and deservedly would be most in most peoples' top two picks for ultimate glory in September
Congrats to Donegal, you were far and away a better team that Down.
Id love to know what exactly Aidan O'Rourke is getting paid to do with that Down Defence, he has watched Cork run through them twice already this year along with Monaghan in the first half of the Semi but yet he could nt organise them.
Also what was McCartan at with Danny Hughes holding him by the scruff before he went on.
I dont think this management team can bring this group of players any further.
down need a fresh approach soon beofre its too late. no doubt we do have some great players but we have some very average ones also, mix that with what seems no game plan at all and you end up with yesterdays result.
Also where is the killer instinct gone in front of goal? those chances in the first half were as good as you could get but both were put over the bar????
Down can have no excuses if the get beat by tipperary, and neither can McCartan.
6 day turn around my a.rse, are the management team dillusional to the chance that we may face a qualifier? If they hadnt prepared for that already then the door is the only option.
Great display from Donegal to pick up the cup and the game went fairly much according to script. They are fantastically fit; to see McFadden making bursting runs in the last five minutes shows how well conditioned they are.
One big black mark against Donegal was Neil McGhee stamping Conor Laverty's foot in the first half. He got a yellow but it should have been red, as there was clear intent to do damage. If there's any justice he should be out for the next game for what was a nasty act.
My take on the game:
- Donegal have to be congratulated for a fantastic all-round performance. In a good all-round team performance the Stand-out performers for me were Frank McGlynn, Mark McHugh, Colm McFadden (albeit his spree came towards the end when the contest was over) and my Man of the Match Ryan Bradley.
- A wee word on Michael Murphy...do Donegal fans think they are getting the best out of him, or his his game being compromised by the way the team is set up? He seems to struggle to stay on his feet when trying to turn (I am not accusing him of diving) and isnt the scoring threat he was a couple of years ago...
- Down played well in the first half and but for some wayward shooting (mckernan, gordon, coulter efforts spring to mind) might possibly have opened up a bit of a cushion. The Donegal goal put paid to that and came at a very important time in the match. To be fair Down responded to the goal well through ambroses point (I was at an awkward enough angle but could this have been a goal opportunity?) In the second half, that Down capitulated was due to a couple of very costly individual errors (McKernan was particularly guilty of indecisiveness and spillages) followed by a period of ruthlessness that is only honed by the kind of regime that Donegal are currently running. Dan Gordon, Benny Mccardle, Darren O Hagan, Ambrose Rogers, Mark Poland and Conor Laverty were the pick of the Down players, while Dan Mccartan and Kalum King are coming in for their usual over the top criticism when I think they both had fair games. In my opinion Mckernan, Brannigan and Coulter had poor days at the office.
- The referee had a fair game too and despite some slight inconsistencies, tried to keep the game flowing as best he could. He was alert enough to notice that a Donegal kickout had been taken while the ball was still rolling and punished any player blocking a quick free by moving it up. Both sides could have had their grievances at various times (I didnt think the offences of kalum king and Brendan McCardle warranted a yellow card, while Karl Lacey was on the receiving end of a heavy challenge when bending down to pick up the ball and Down got a score from a free directly after) but in the end didnt impact on the result.
- For all of the negative publicity Donegal get for their cynicism, I have to say I did not see much evidence of it. They looked supremely fit, well conditioned and comfortable in their roles. They were able move up into a gear that Down didnt have. However,Their management will probably be a bit concerned about the levels of back-slapping and praise that comes their way in the next few days and it will be imperative that the squad remains grounded for when they reach Croke Park.
- For Down it will be a big task to raise themselves for a decent Tipperary team in 6 days time. I am hoping that they have enough experience (gained from consistently competing in division 1 and big games in croke park) within the squad to ensure they have the professional approach which will be required to win the game. They need to wipe yesterday from their minds. If someone had told them in January when they started training collectively that a win v Tipperary would see them back to Croke Park in an All-Ireland Quarter I am sure they would have bitten your hand off.
- Finally, despite some traffic problems entering Monaghan town and Clones itself, the setting was superb. Great to see a full-house and plenty of banter between both sets of supporters (roughly 50:50 in ratio)...
Great result for Donegal against a disappointing Down team. The use of Conor Laverty baffled me I would have thought he would have been better playing closer to goal. That said Donegal are in with a shout of collecting Sam for the second time. Armagh County Board Take note of what a young manager with fresh ideas can do. Well done Jim McGuinness.
Well done Donegal. I have been critical in the past of their overly defensive set up but they are now much more of a scoring threat and as a by-product more watchable.
Is this new-found attacking edge coming at a cost though, Down created a number of goal chances but were not clinical enough. Their defenders were not as comfortable in front of goals as the Donegal defenders.
Quote from: LeoMc on July 23, 2012, 12:53:31 PM
Well done Donegal. I have been critical in the past of their overly defensive set up but they are now much more of a scoring threat and as a by-product more watchable.
Is this new-found attacking edge coming at a cost though, Down created a number of goal chances but were not clinical enough. Their defenders were not as comfortable in front of goals as the Donegal defenders.
first half i thought down went right at the spine of our defence and broke it and made some good chances.
Have to first of all congradulate Donegal on a great win yesterday. A great team effort which just proved way too strong for Down. Down competed well for 50 mins but then just fell apart alot of this was to do with the sheer strenght and physical fitness of Donegal.They were still running flat out after 70 mins where as Downs legs were gone.I honestly didnt find Donegal that cycinal during the game they fought hard for everything and you knew when you got hit.Down just dont have the big strong men to compete with Kalum hit Frank Mc Glynn as hard as he could yet he just bounced back up not to many could take a hit from Kalum and do that. Alot of credit has to go to both Gallagher and Mc Guiness they have made a great job of that team fair play to them. I would love to see them go on now and win the All Ireland good luck
Quote from: snoopdog on July 23, 2012, 10:54:15 AM
Id love to know what exactly Aidan O'Rourke is getting paid to do with that Down Defence, he has watched Cork run through them twice already this year along with Monaghan in the first half of the Semi but yet he could nt organise them.
Looked well and organised until the team gave up in the final 15 minutes. No preparation can prepare you for players fisting the ball straight to the opposition.
Donegal take advantage of that better than anyone.
Well done Donegal, better team won, best of luck in quest for Sam
Impressive display by Donegal, here's my tactical take http://action81.com/blog/?p=6026
congrats Donegal, awesome display altogether
Down would fancy their chances vs Dubs or Mayo perhaps ?
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on July 23, 2012, 09:28:08 PM
congrats Donegal, awesome display altogether
Down would fancy their chances vs Dubs or Mayo perhaps ?
No...if Down do happen to get past Tipp (and I genuinely believe it is a big if) then they would be going into a quarter final against one of the other three provincial winners as big underdogs. Cork have trounced them repeatedly in the last number of years. Dublin are very similar in physicality and style to Donegal, and Mayo seem to be not far from knocking on the door. A quarter final appearance would be a successful season...anything beyond would be bonus territory....
Quote from: hardstation on July 01, 2012, 01:18:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2012, 01:15:47 AM
QuoteIf history plays no part in the Ulster championship, how come Antrim have not won one in the last 60 years ?
Because they are crap?
Eh? What are you on about? We had Kevin Armstrong back in the 40s and therefore we must be good now.
tfal is that you????
was there much craic in the abbey and donegal town last night, i'd say there was plenty of sauce taken, and back to training again 2ngt no doubt
Quote from: Orchardman on July 23, 2012, 11:02:32 PM
was there much craic in the abbey and donegal town last night, i'd say there was plenty of sauce taken, and back to training again 2ngt no doubt
Good craic about. Nice homecoming and town was absoloutly packed despite pouring rain. Back to training tomorrow !
Quote from: emmetryan on July 23, 2012, 09:24:59 PM
Impressive display by Donegal, here's my tactical take http://action81.com/blog/?p=6026
cheers emmet. fantastic breakdown as usual.
(http://gaeliclife.com/wp-content/themes/gaelic_life/img/Donegal_Ulster_Champs_2012_GL.pdf)
(http://www.derryjournal.com/webimage/1.4101647.1343381620!image/1476691077.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/1476691077.jpg)
nice.
just been watching a vid of the homecoming into donegal town and was struck by how paul durcan dwarfs murphy. checked our wiki page and it says he's 6 ft 5"... horse. makes his reflexes and agility even more impressive.