Just on breaking news, very strange and tragic..
Bodies of two girls found in Cork
Gardaí in Cork are investigating the discovery of the bodies of two children in a house near Ballycotton outside Middleton earlier this morning.
Gardaí from Middelton discovered the bodies of the two little girls, believed to be aged 7 and 2, when they called to the house. Gardaí had called to notify the chidlren's mother that her partner had been killed earlier in a car crash.
The man was killed when his car crashed into a wall between Ballycotton and Shanagarry.
The man's partner had earlier travelled to Cork city to work and gardaí from east Cork went to the city to inform her of the triple tragedy.
Jesus lads, this is horrible.
Words fail me.
Quote from: orangeman on November 16, 2010, 12:41:21 PM
Jesus lads, this is horrible.
Words fail me.
Same as that, pretty horrific being told that news.
Terrible news. My heart goes out to all concerned. RIP
So this guy was killed in a car crash
the mother was away to town to work
were the children left alone in the house. Am i reading this right.
i don't think that adds up hereiam
Bit early for the bandwagon lads, tragic case.
No disrespect but this story doesn't make sense. Who was looking after the children?
Just read it on the RTE website. Looks like this guy has killed the children and then killed himself by crashing the car into a tree. Tragic
I agree. Tragic case most certainly and god love the wee children. Maybe im reading too much into it but is it not obvious what happened here
Quote from: tyrone girl on November 16, 2010, 12:59:27 PM
I agree. Tragic case most certainly and god love the wee children. Maybe im reading too much into it but is it not obvious what happened here
I probably thought along the same lines you, but in fairness all I know is from the press release and anything else is guessing.
-Maybe the farhter wasn't the first to die?
My thoughts exactly but probably shouldnt speculate. God knows what the background to this was. Terrible tragedy
Tragic events no matter what the circumstances are.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 16, 2010, 01:00:52 PM
Quote from: tyrone girl on November 16, 2010, 12:59:27 PM
I agree. Tragic case most certainly and god love the wee children. Maybe im reading too much into it but is it not obvious what happened here
I probably thought along the same lines you, but in fairness all I know is from the press release and anything else is guessing.
-Maybe the farhter wasn't the first to die?
i thought that was the conclusion most would come to first.but there certainly are more possibilities though.
horrible story to hear.R.I.P
sad sad story
I don't remember this sort of thing happening 20 years ago.
QuoteI don't remember this sort of thing happening 20 years ago.
Without knowing the full details, there have been a few of these cases over the last few years unfortunately with little children also suffering at the hands of a mentally ill parent.
We live in very troubled times with people under all kinds or pressures and stresses, depression and suicide are ever on the increase and none of us know what our neighbours are going through.
Unfortunately I think we are going to see more of these type of cases as our financial woes only get worse in the years ahead, again I dont know the specifics of what happened today and am only speculating.
May they all RIP
I wish I did not post my last post, more tragic new this time from Limerick. from RTE news
An investigation has been launched into the circumstances surrounding the deaths of two adults and two children in Newcastle West, Co Limerick.
Four bodies discovered at Co Limerick house. An investigation has been launched into the circumstances surrounding the deaths of four people in Co Limerick.
Two adults and two children were found dead in a house in Newcastle West just before 2pm this afternoon.
The area has been sealed off pending a forensic examination.
The State Pathologist's Office has been alerted.
Gardaí were called by a member of the public to the house this afternoon. When they went in at around 1.50pm, they discovered the bodies of the two adults and two children.
The two children were found upstairs, while the adults were discovered downstairs.
The bodies are still at the scene.
It is believed the four died violent deaths. The children are aged five and one. The woman is their mother.
Just after seeing the Limerick report on RTE :o
Jesus, this is absolutely horrific.
A disturbing update to the story on RTE:
"It is believed the four died violent deaths. The children are aged five and one. The woman is their mother."
Unbelievably sad.
Heart wrenching start to the day hearing that kind of news about innocent children.
Rest in peace little ones.
Update on the Limerick case from Irish Times, as usual RTE is behind the news
Four found dead in Limerick
Gardaí are investigating the circumstance surrounding the deaths of four people, including two children, in Newcastle West, Co Limerick.
Initial reports indicate two women and two children were found dead in a house just before 2pm this afternoon.
Gardaí are attempting to trace the whereabouts of a man who is suspected of being involved in the incident.
It is understood the suspect was married to one of the women and the two children were aged under five. The bodies of the two children were found upstairs in the house while the adults were discovered downstairs.
The area has been sealed off pending a forensic examination. A Garda spokesman confirmed that all four bodies are still at the scene and the State Pathologist's Office had been alerted.
Two terrible stories...RIP
Tragedy, the poor little children. If they catch him what will happen?
Remember the little girl in Fermanagh last christmas? with all these horrible deaths there can be no God.
Mannix
Maybe god is more old testament. Children die every day all over the Third World from diseases such as malaria or just malnutrition.
Hard the place or time for an religious debate lads.
Terrible news for the families affected just something you would never get over, our thoughts all go to them!
seafoid,
i realise that, its just a bit different when you imagine a knife being plunged into a child. Starvation and malaria are terrible but not a major problem in limerick.
Shocking news altogether. RIP.
terrible news to hear,rip to all concerned
Horrific news today in both cases.
Thoughts are with the families.
they have arrested a man in Clare for the Limerick case, whatever drove him to kill 4 people including his 2 children.
Its been a very sad day of death and mayhem.
May they all RIP
I can't get this out of my head at all.
How can you stab a 5 year old and a 1 year old?
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 16, 2010, 06:03:38 PM
I can't get this out of my head at all.
How can you stab a 5 year old and a 1 year old?
You'd like to think that that is a question most of us will never have the slightest grasp of an answer to.
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 16, 2010, 06:03:38 PM
I can't get this out of my head at all.
How can you stab a 5 year old and a 1 year old?
I know. I scowl at mine the odd time, and get the guilts straight away. It's insanity in any language.
I'm speechless, what horrific news. As a father stuff like this is heart breaking.
Why cant these animals do their own thing but leave the fecking innocent KIDS alone. What a real bad news day!
Can't get my head around these two tragic events... Shocking and disgusting... God be with the two family - what state the mother in Cork must be in, I shudder to think...
A very dark day.
Heard that the youngest in Limerick was 5months old.
Would break your heart.
Rest in Peace.
Quote from: maggie on November 16, 2010, 08:02:21 PM
A very dark day.
Heard that the youngest in Limerick was 5months old.
Would break your heart.
Rest in Peace.
My own wee boy is 14 weeks old , how you can harm a child who is so completely helpless is incomprehensible,it is sad beyond words
Most likely to be on drugs or a serious case of depression.
Quote from: crossdoesitbest on November 16, 2010, 07:49:59 PM
Why cant these animals do their own thing but leave the fecking innocent KIDS alone. What a real bad news day!
Listen, I don't know the facts but any parent that does this has surely gone over the edge and lost their mind. As someone said earlier it is incomprehensible to hurt a wee child.
While I still don't believe in the death penalty cases like these today would really really test my beliefs.
Christ above. Shocking.
It's like reading a script from a horror movie but the reality is these cold hearted bastards deserve all they get.
Dreadful stuff altogether. What a tragic day
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 16, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
While I still don't believe in the death penalty cases like these today would really really test my beliefs.
I don't know how anybody doesn't believe in the death penalty, especially for cases like this.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 16, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
While I still don't believe in the death penalty cases like these today would really really test my beliefs.
I don't know how anybody doesn't believe in the death penalty, especially for cases like this.
Cases like this do shake my belief in the death penalty especially when you see the relative comfort these scum live in in prison. Ideally someone who commits premeditated murder should spend the rest of their days in a prison cell with the basics of food and water to keep them alive. No comforts, nothing.
Ireland has a huge problem with untreated depression. Between suicides and what happened yesterday, the costs are just too high.
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 17, 2010, 10:10:46 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 16, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
While I still don't believe in the death penalty cases like these today would really really test my beliefs.
I don't know how anybody doesn't believe in the death penalty, especially for cases like this.
Cases like this do shake my belief in the death penalty especially when you see the relative comfort these scum live in in prison. Ideally someone who commits premeditated murder should spend the rest of their days in a prison cell with the basics of food and water to keep them alive. No comforts, nothing.
I have been an advocate of the Death Penalty but there is the fact that alot of the people killed will not really suffer, but the alternative is Prison which is hardly hell these days. They should be made to suffer in a prison for the rest of their days, treated like slaves and made to do any work that needs done with little luxury, leisure time or human rights.
Lads until we grasp the nettle which is massive alcohol abuse we are still going to have issues with depression, suicide and social problems. We still continue to bury our heads however.
Quote from: Sandino on November 17, 2010, 11:19:52 AM
Lads until we grasp the nettle which is massive alcohol abuse we are still going to have issues with depression, suicide and social problems. We still continue to bury our heads however.
There is no suggestion that drink is an issue in either of these cases.
I'm against the death penalty, but not because I don't think some criminals deserve to die. I would have no problem with a cold blooded killer getting executed and I think Irish sentencing, in general, is ludicrously lenient. However, until you can eliminate wrongful convictions, I do not see how anyone can support a solution from which there is no reprieve.
AG I never implied that it did. Other posters had chatted about untreated depression and drugs and our misuse of alcohol is a factor in these issues. i was responding to those remarks.
Quote from: Sandino on November 17, 2010, 11:19:52 AM
Lads until we grasp the nettle which is massive alcohol abuse we are still going to have issues with depression, suicide and social problems. We still continue to bury our heads however.
what about massive drug abuse?.
no one in their right mind would harm a baby therefore is someone high on drugs more likely to stab a baby than say someone with a bit of drink in them?
i just cant get my head around why anyone would do something like this. absolute tragic cases and its been a very dark day for this country.
What in under god has drink got to do with the whole thing? Why bring alcholics in a sense into it.
Why bring drugs into it? Drink can have a negative effect on mental health. we have massive mental health issues in this country and alcohol and drugs are a major part of the mental health issue. I am not saying either was a factor in this these cases.
There are a lot more to mental health issues than drink and drugs no harm to u. For f**k sake relatiionships, money, stress i could go on can all have a negative effect on mental health. People can have mental health issues from no age and something tips them over?
I still for the life of me dont get your explanation for bringing in the case of alcohol abuse. Who says all addicts of any description have to have mental health problems?
Quote from: Sandino on November 17, 2010, 12:52:42 PM
Why bring drugs into it? Drink can have a negative effect on mental health. we have massive mental health issues in this country and alcohol and drugs are a major part of the mental health issue. I am not saying either was a factor in this these cases.
We have no more mental health issues than another nation. Sucides peak in the months of October/ November each year. There will always be cases like happened yesterday, the freakish thing is that they happened on the same day. Not one bit of handwringing or looking for extra funds for mental health would not have changed yesterdays events. Freakish things happen no matter how sad these events are.
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
::)
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
Jesus Christ so ur blaming the developers etc who borrowed and spent too much. This is getting absolutely ridiculous. There are very few families in the country who arent affected by the mess the countrys in, it by no means should even be discussed as being a reason for what happened to them kids. Words fail me
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
The same people who gave the man employment in the first place, get reall ffs.
Two tragic stories to which the truth and reasons for what occoured will probably never come out, my thoughts are with both familes and friends.
Quote from: angermanagement on November 17, 2010, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
The same people who gave the man employment in the first place, get reall ffs.
Two tragic stories to which the truth and reasons for what occoured will probably never come out, my thoughts are with both familes and friends.
I couls be wrong, and I'm sure Geoff can stand up for himself, but I took it that he meant the Government/bankers and not the developers. Still, the points about the lack of support for people with mental health problems is a very true issue. We may not have any more or less people suffering from mentla health problems per capita than any other country but we do have very inadequate support systems and also a culture where people are afraid/ashamed to admit that they have mental problems. This a a major problem and it is unclear if both incidents have similarity in that respect.
Depression or not it takes a extra evil bastard to take the lives of children, I'm against the death penalty... how does killing a killer (death for deaths) prove it's the way to go? as someone else said "hard labour for life" & spend it in one of the worlds toughest prison.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 17, 2010, 02:48:03 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on November 17, 2010, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
The same people who gave the man employment in the first place, get reall ffs.
Two tragic stories to which the truth and reasons for what occoured will probably never come out, my thoughts are with both familes and friends.
I couls be wrong, and I'm sure Geoff can stand up for himself, but I took it that he meant the Government/bankers and not the developers. Still, the points about the lack of support for people with mental health problems is a very true issue. We may not have any more or less people suffering from mentla health problems per capita than any other country but we do have very inadequate support systems and also a culture where people are afraid/ashamed to admit that they have mental problems. This a a major problem and it is unclear if both incidents have similarity in that respect.
Yes that's who I'm referring to. Whilst my initial post may have been a bit strong I firmly believe that incidents like yesterday will become more prevalent - people who for whatever reason commit unimaginable acts of barbarity because it seems like the only way out.
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
In fairness people got themselves in a mess. Spending more money than you have is only going to lead to trouble. Borrowing more money than you can ever pay back is not the smartest idea. Living beyond your means......
Everybody was and some still are doing it. It was and in some places still is part of Irish Culture. Nobody has a job but everybody can still drive a BMW, drink in the local at the weekend and spend spend spend.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 17, 2010, 04:00:39 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on November 17, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
The guy who killed his children in Cork had been suffering depression since losing his job as a crane operator. As far as I'm concerned all the pr*cks who have got this country into the mess it's currently in have blood on their hands.
In fairness people got themselves in a mess. Spending more money than you have is only going to lead to trouble. Borrowing more money than you can ever pay back is not the smartest idea. Living beyond your means......
Everybody was and some still are doing it. It was and in some places still is part of Irish Culture. Nobody has a job but everybody can still drive a BMW, drink in the local at the weekend and spend spend spend.
None of which, has ANY bearing on the ability to kill two children. Lets not lose sight of that here. Talk of alcohol, drugs, mental illness is all well and good - but the killing of a child (IMO) can't be laid at the door of any of this.
Thats true Puck - I just reacted to passing the buck on financial ruin.
There is no excuse for what happened. Especially when children are involved. God Bless them all, victims and killers.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 17, 2010, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: Sandino on November 17, 2010, 12:52:42 PM
Why bring drugs into it? Drink can have a negative effect on mental health. we have massive mental health issues in this country and alcohol and drugs are a major part of the mental health issue. I am not saying either was a factor in this these cases.
We have no more mental health issues than another nation. Sucides peak in the months of October/ November each year. There will always be cases like happened yesterday, the freakish thing is that they happened on the same day. Not one bit of handwringing or looking for extra funds for mental health would not have changed yesterdays events. Freakish things happen no matter how sad these events are.
Ráiméis a Ghaelgeoir
Untreated depression is responsible for most suicides in Ireland. Emergency psychiatric support is very poor especially for vulnerable teenagers. The Irish Times is running a series on suicide this week and this point comes out again and again. The case in Cork was depression related.
Sandino is right. Ireland has a problem with drink as well as mental health and the current status quo is not working.
Calling for the death penalty is stupid. These people need psychiatric help.
I ask again What has Irelands problem with drink / alcohol abuse got to do with the ability to kill a child? Am i the only person who finds this link ridiculous. Maybe i am.
TG
with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed. It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.
No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.
All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.
Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 17, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.
All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.
Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.
It doesn't mean you can't rule it out though Puck.
If he was an evil bastard then surely it wouldn't take 30 or 40 odd years to emerge? If he was just inherently evil surely there would be ongoing evidence from friends and family of this?
I've had first hand family experience with depression and you never know what it can do to a person or how far it can drive a person. If it can push someone to suicide then why can it not push someone to murder? Its all speculation at this point but I firmly believe anyone is capable of anything when in the right/wrong frame of mind.....
Quote from: Puckoon on November 17, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.
All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.
Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.
Puckoon
I agree that it is not usual in cases of depression for people to murder their kids - it is very rare - but it reminded me of a case in Spain where a depressed father jumped to his death from a holiday balcony with his child and the cause was depression. He survived and the child died. He was tried under diminished responsibility. Can't find a link to it but it was a British father called John with an Irish surname and it was all over the papers a few years ago.
Or the Izaga case in London
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23399232-millionaire-executive-unhinged-by-horror-film-killed-daughter.do
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
TG
with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed. It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.
Seafoid first things first. Do not patronise me please. As for depression i am all too aware of the effect it has on many families.
Can i ask however how u know this man hadnt slept for weeks and was severely depressed? It seems more than likely he was highly depressed yes but how can u state it is most defnitely the case.
Secondly, you say he thought this would destroy his family? How do you know he thought this? Surely if this was his train of thought he would have killed the wife and left the children as both would be young enough to hopefuly overcome it and have a go at a normal upbringing with relatives etc.
Im not disputing what way the man felt as i do not know. I have no clue how he felt nor have ever any desire to do so. Without wanting to repeat myself i know all about depression and the depths of despair it has left people but i cannot fathom no matter how deeply depressed or mentall ill someone can be that there was any necessity to kill two innocent children. If he felt his life was no longer worth living and wanted to end things that was his choice. Sad most certainly but his life his choice. What was not his place was to choose to end the life of his two children.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 17, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.
All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.
Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.
Agree with all this Puck - but what my point is that i dont think the mention of alcohol abuse or drug abuse for that matter has any place in this discussion.
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
TG
with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed. It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.
Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.
He should have been in a psychiatric hospital, Gaeilgeoir. The papers didn't mention psychosis, just depression.
any news on the limerick case?
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 06:03:37 PM
He should have been in a psychiatric hospital, Gaeilgeoir. The papers didn't mention psychosis, just depression.
any news on the limerick case?
The times are a changing. Back even 15 years ago - depression may well have had you in a psychiatric hospital, or perhaps it would have been over looked. Psychiatric medicine is being hugely driven now, and depression is no longer generally an inpatient hospitalised illness. Hell, schizophrenics are even walking the streets now, and managing to live relatively normal lives due to the advances in medicine and outpatient care. There is no way they could have forseen the need for inpatient psychiatric care based
solely on a diagnosis of depression in 2010. Now - if they knew there was an underlying psychosis, then absolutely it is a disgrace if the man wasn't hospitalised.
Puckoon
If he felt suicidal enough to actually kill himself he should not have been at home. The Irish Times is running a series on suicide this week and what links them all is the poor support for those reporting initial symptoms of depression.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 17, 2010, 05:57:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
TG
with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed. It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.
Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.
I've no idea what happened and I don't think it's helpful to be speculating however I want to point out that suicide can be a planned and calculated act (or it can seem sudden) therefore why would you rule it out in this case because he waited until his wife went to work?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 17, 2010, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 17, 2010, 05:57:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
TG
with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed. It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.
Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.
I've no idea what happened and I don't think it's helpful to be speculating however I want to point out that suicide can be a planned and calculated act (or it can seem sudden) therefore why would you rule it out in this case because he waited until his wife went to work?
I tend to agree with pints and Seafoid on this. It does not appear the man had anything to gain by killing his wife and kids so the most logical reasoning is that he, in his malfunctioning brain, decided that what he was doing was best for his family. Anyone who knows anything about suicide knows that the people who carry out these actions are not thinking in a logical way and to apply normal logic to their actions is pointless.
There was a documentary a few years ago on a guy in England who got himself into such a financial mess that he lost his mind and decided to kill himself and whole family. Luckily he failed and got treatment and the program interviewed him to see what he was doing. He said that in his mind he was doing the whole thing out of a misplaced act of love for his family - to spare them from a terrible life of his making.
Whatever the reasons it is a terrible terrible tragedy and I count my lucky stars that my two kids are upstairs now sound asleep and safe in bed.
I have been watching this on the news and my heart goes out to the families involved. Is there anything more heart wrenching than the violent death of innocent children.
May they Rest in Peace.
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2010, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 17, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.
All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.
Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.
Puckoon
I agree that it is not usual in cases of depression for people to murder their kids - it is very rare - but it reminded me of a case in Spain where a depressed father jumped to his death from a holiday balcony with his child and the cause was depression. He survived and the child died. He was tried under diminished responsibility. Can't find a link to it but it was a British father called John with an Irish surname and it was all over the papers a few years ago.
Or the Izaga case in London
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23399232-millionaire-executive-unhinged-by-horror-film-killed-daughter.do
Was this the one you were referring to seafoid?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/30/john-hogan-crete-hotel-balcony (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/30/john-hogan-crete-hotel-balcony)