Fine Gael has decided to end a pairing agreement with the Government that will focus more attention on the Coalition's slim Dáil majority.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0927/politics.html
About time. Could this be the begining of the end for this Government? With the vote on the by-elections on Wednesday could the Government lose this one?
don't they do this every year (for the first week or so and then laziness sets in again).
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 09:28:55 AM
don't they do this every year (for the first week or so and then laziness sets in again).
Maybe, I don't know? I've no memory of it but maybe it's a bigger deal this time as it's such a small margin.
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
ff SENT THEM PAST 6.5 so I'll take my chances with an election.
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
not if they've a tracker!!
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 09:28:55 AM
don't they do this every year (for the first week or so and then laziness sets in again).
Maybe, I don't know? I've no memory of it but maybe it's a bigger deal this time as it's such a small margin.
I suppose it is with the news that grealish has turned and mcgrath has also dropped out of the extended ff aligned td's since the last time.
I can't understand why FF haven't set dates for those by-elections though :D
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0927/politics.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0927/politics.html)
Quinn would back pairing for 'proper mission'
Monday, 27 September 2010 13:58
Labour spokesperson Ruairí Quinn has said he would be prepared to provide a Dáil pairing arrangement with Fianna Fáil to facilitate an official trip, provided his party was satisfied it was a proper mission.
Tánaiste Mary Coughlan was forced to cancel her visit to a meeting of US career counsellors - organised by Enterprise Ireland to try to attract more students to Ireland - after Fine Gael withdrew its vote-pairing arrangement with the Government.
Pairing is an arrangement where a TD of one party agrees with a TD of an opposing party not to vote on a particular matter.
AdvertisementIt is designed to take account of the need for TDs to be absent from the Dáil, for example to attend to ministerial or constituency duties.
On News At One, Mr Quinn said he wanted to meet the Tánaiste on the issue, but said he believed she should be facilitated, because the provision of jobs was vital to the country.
'As a former Minister for Enterprise, I have led missions such as this and I know the potential they can have to deliver jobs,' he said.
The Tánaiste said the trip was arranged from before she was appointed Minister for Education.
Ms Coughlan said the Fine Gael decision would be disruptive, but the Government still had a majority and she would also continue to sell Ireland abroad.
However Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said that his party would not tolerate a situation where Ministers were given discretionary powers to travel all over the world.
He said the Minister wanted to run away from answering serious questions about FÁS - for which she has responsibility.
The Fine Gael move followed Independent TD Noel Grealish's decision to withdraw his support for the Government over planned health cuts.
On Saturday, backbench Fianna Fáil TD Mattie McGrath said he could not continue to give his support if cuts in Clonmel Hospital went ahead.
Fine Gael Education Spokesman Fergus O'Dowd defended the pairing decision, saying Minister Coughlan had to be 'personally accountable' to the Dáil on issues such as spending at State training agency FÁS.
Mr O'Dowd said the party would provide cover for Ministers going on European Union business, but other votes would not be covered.
Fine Gael 'short-sighted and unpatriotic'
Enterprise Minister Batt O'Keeffe said the Fine Gael move was 'short-sighted and unpatriotic'.
Minster O'Keeffe said: 'The Government has lost an opportunity to attract more revenue-generating overseas students to Ireland and to create jobs here at home by targeting US investment opportunities.
'Fine Gael has embarrassed the country and it is very disappointing that the main Opposition party would place political self-interest above the national interest.'
Green Party leader and Minister for the Environment John Gormley said that Fine Gael is putting the party ahead of the country.
Speaking this morning, he said it has always been in place to facilitate ministers doing their work properly and representing Ireland abroad.
Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern said TDs who have up to now supported the Government will have to decide whether or not they want to bring the Government down on one issue.
Fine Gael has also announced that it intends to move the writs for the three outstanding bye-elections in Dublin South, Donegal South West and Waterford when the Dáil resumes on Wednesday.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 12:55:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
not if they've a tracker!!
I don't know how the banks ever thought that selling trackers was a good idea. You link the interest paid on the loan to the ECB central rate (<2%) while funding a large portion of the book on the international money markets (6.5%) . Muppets.
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 03:40:35 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 12:55:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
not if they've a tracker!!
I don't know how the banks ever thought that selling trackers was a good idea. You link the interest paid on the loan to the ECB central rate (<2%) while funding a large portion of the book on the international money markets (6.5%) . Muppets.
I for one am glad thay did ! there are talks of a 25-30% rebate on tracker mortgages to get people like me off them!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
It's not just you. It's no wonder though as they prepare to run in every constituency they need the grassroots set-up that they are missing across the Country. Where best to get this but from those who's natural home is in FF and as such they will flock to the popular party of the day. This swing to Labour and away from FF should have Labour threading very carefully. Instead you have Gilmore spreading his arms welcoming them.
However, maybe Ruairi Quinn is right. FG were right to end the pairing but if the Junket in the US is seen as important then let her go. It should end there though.
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
It's not just you. It's no wonder though as they prepare to run in every constituency they need the grassroots set-up that they are missing across the Country. Where best to get this but from those who's natural home is in FF and as such they will flock to the popular party of the day. This swing to Labour and away from FF should have Labour threading very carefully. Instead you have Gilmore spreading his arms welcoming them.
However, maybe Ruairi Quinn is right. FG were right to end the pairing but if the Junket in the US is seen as important then let her go. It should end there though.
But she still could have gone regardless - FF have the numbers, unless they are afraid others (like Bertie) won't show up for votes, or will vote against them (like Grealish, Lowry etc). Either way, it's not true to say FG are stopping Coughlan from going on this trip. But that's the spin they've put on it and it has worked.
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 03:40:35 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 12:55:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
not if they've a tracker!!
I don't know how the banks ever thought that selling trackers was a good idea. You link the interest paid on the loan to the ECB central rate (<2%) while funding a large portion of the book on the international money markets (6.5%) . Muppets.
In fairness to them they were obtaining finance at more or less the same rate as the ECB as it was the primary driver of the rate charged on euro denominated fund, and it was practically unheard of that the interbank rate would be much different from the ecb rate. From their point of view they had a built in profit margin of approx 1%, and that's before taking into account that each mortgage granted meant more money could be borrowed thanks to the wonders of securitisation!!
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
It's not just you. It's no wonder though as they prepare to run in every constituency they need the grassroots set-up that they are missing across the Country. Where best to get this but from those who's natural home is in FF and as such they will flock to the popular party of the day. This swing to Labour and away from FF should have Labour threading very carefully. Instead you have Gilmore spreading his arms welcoming them.
However, maybe Ruairi Quinn is right. FG were right to end the pairing but if the Junket in the US is seen as important then let her go. It should end there though.
Traditionaly I always thought a Fine Gael - Labour coalition was a good balancing mix, but daily Labours populist drivel is making me unsure. We do need to sort out this country after all, be it over 3 years, 5 years or 10, more of the same Bertiesque politics will ensure our ruination for deacades to come.
Maybe an overwhealmingly huge FG-Labour Coalition will reassure the International Markets as well as ensure no member of any other party or independent ever needs to pair with a Fianna Failure ever again.
Keeping Coughlan in the country might create more jobs than if she went overseas and made an "impression".
Being discussed on Newstalk now.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 03:40:35 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 12:55:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2010, 10:26:09 AM
An election will send bond rates past 7% probably. Bad news for people with mortgages.
not if they've a tracker!!
I don't know how the banks ever thought that selling trackers was a good idea. You link the interest paid on the loan to the ECB central rate (<2%) while funding a large portion of the book on the international money markets (6.5%) . Muppets.
In fairness to them they were obtaining finance at more or less the same rate as the ECB as it was the primary driver of the rate charged on euro denominated fund, and it was practically unheard of that the interbank rate would be much different from the ecb rate. From their point of view they had a built in profit margin of approx 1%, and that's before taking into account that each mortgage granted meant more money could be borrowed thanks to the wonders of securitisation!!
Unless the same basis is used for funding and charging there is a mismatch risk. So the crisis came laong. And then some.
And now it is a shocking mess. The banks are now making miniscule margins on their loans- most of them are below 100bps.
It's a super deal for the tracker customer but suicide for the banks.
A bit unrelated to the pairing issue, but most certainly connected to the mess this government which needs to go now has made of this country. Anyone else hear that letter read out by George Hook on Newstalk. It makes me wish that we put the entire FF party on a plane to the States and then rescind their citizenship and banish the b**tards forever.
It was a shockingly sad letter. >:(
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
It's not just you. It's no wonder though as they prepare to run in every constituency they need the grassroots set-up that they are missing across the Country. Where best to get this but from those who's natural home is in FF and as such they will flock to the popular party of the day. This swing to Labour and away from FF should have Labour threading very carefully. Instead you have Gilmore spreading his arms welcoming them.
However, maybe Ruairi Quinn is right. FG were right to end the pairing but if the Junket in the US is seen as important then let her go. It should end there though.
Traditionaly I always thought a Fine Gael - Labour coalition was a good balancing mix, but daily Labours populist drivel is making me unsure. We do need to sort out this country after all, be it over 3 years, 5 years or 10, more of the same Bertiesque politics will ensure our ruination for deacades to come.
Maybe an overwhealmingly huge FG-Labour Coalition will reassure the International Markets as well as ensure no member of any other party or independent ever needs to pair with a Fianna Failure ever again.
You assume Labour won't go into coalition with FF. I wouldn't be so sure.
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Is it just me or are Labour beginning to sound more and more like Fianna Fail everyday, say nothing controversial, populist politics and make the grab for power at all costs. Are Labour Fianna Fail-Bertie-Lite!
It's not just you. It's no wonder though as they prepare to run in every constituency they need the grassroots set-up that they are missing across the Country. Where best to get this but from those who's natural home is in FF and as such they will flock to the popular party of the day. This swing to Labour and away from FF should have Labour threading very carefully. Instead you have Gilmore spreading his arms welcoming them.
However, maybe Ruairi Quinn is right. FG were right to end the pairing but if the Junket in the US is seen as important then let her go. It should end there though.
Traditionaly I always thought a Fine Gael - Labour coalition was a good balancing mix, but daily Labours populist drivel is making me unsure. We do need to sort out this country after all, be it over 3 years, 5 years or 10, more of the same Bertiesque politics will ensure our ruination for deacades to come.
Maybe an overwhealmingly huge FG-Labour Coalition will reassure the International Markets as well as ensure no member of any other party or independent ever needs to pair with a Fianna Failure ever again.
You assume Labour won't go into coalition with FF. I wouldn't be so sure.
I'm beginning to fear they will, a small bit as a Fine Gaeler, but overwhealmingly worried as a patriotic Irishman all party politics aside.
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
You assume Labour won't go into coalition with FF. I wouldn't be so sure.
That's were I'd be putting my money at the minute.
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 05:36:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
You assume Labour won't go into coalition with FF. I wouldn't be so sure.
That's were I'd be putting my money at the minute.
If they do, Labour deserve to be destroyed too. It will be Fine Gael V Sinn Fein forever after.
Lads what makes you think that the Blueshirts can deliver anything?
In this time of recession/depression its easy to sit on the sidelines and point the finger but if the Blueshirts were in power how do you know they would deliver?
Can you seriously trust an eejit like Enda Kenny to run this country? I have no faith in any party who has appointed such a numpty as their leader. I think that FG would be stronger with Richard Bruton at the helm.
Whilst FF have pished the Nation's wealth and resources up against the wall I'm not so sure that the Blueshirts are the answer. In fact they're not the answer.
Quote from: funtime frankie on September 27, 2010, 05:51:44 PM
Lads what makes you think that the Blueshirts can deliver anything?
In this time of recession/depression its easy to sit on the sidelines and point the finger but if the Blueshirts were in power how do you know they would deliver?
Can you seriously trust an eejit like Enda Kenny to run this country? I have no faith in any party who has appointed such a numpty as their leader. I think that FG would be stronger with Richard Bruton at the helm.
Whilst FF have pished the Nation's wealth and resources up against the wall I'm not so sure that the Blueshirts are the answer. In fact they're not the answer.
By your logic so we must re-elect Fianna Fail. The only strategy FF have is to ridicule the FG leader no matter who it is. Come election time Richard Bruton would have been lampooned by the Indo same as Kenny, Noonan and the other Bruton before them. Amazing how many idiots it works on though.
This country will shortly be bankrupted by the incredible stupidity of its citizens as much as any other reasons.
sadly no Irish paper would publish the following story. Why is that?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/22/pressandpublishing (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/22/pressandpublishing)
O'Reilly newspapers back Ahern for third term
Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
The Observer, Sunday 22 April 2007 11.34 BST
Article history
Sir Tony O'Reilly is to swing his Independent Newspaper group behind Bertie Ahern in the Irish general election next month.
The Observer has learnt that all three of O'Reilly's main national titles - the Irish Independent, the Sunday Independent and the Evening Herald - will back Ahern to get re-elected.
Support from the newspaper group that controls the overwhelming majority of the press in the Republic is a major boost for the Taoiseach. Fianna Fail sources said the party was 'cracking open the champagne this weekend' over the news.
The likely date of the election is Thursday 24 May. An alternative date is the following week but the 24th remains Ahern's preferred option to go to the country.
As well as editorials supporting the current Fianna Fail/Progressive Democrat coalition, high-profile Independent Group columnists such as Eoghan Harris in the Sunday Independent are also expected to call for the Coalition's re-election.
The shift in support away from Fine Gael to Fianna Fail in the Independent Group has been as significant as Rupert Murdoch's backing of Tony Blair prior to the 1997 UK general election.
If elected for a third time, Ahern will become the most successful Taoiseach since Eamon de Valera. Paul Bew, Professor of Politics at Queen's University and author of a new book on Irish history since 1789, said a hat trick would be truly historic. 'Bertie already broke the pattern set in Irish politics from 1969. Up until he was elected for a second time in 2002 every other Irish government served only one term from 1969 before they were kicked out. He has already made history and if he gets the hat-trick, that will be a stunning achievement.'
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: funtime frankie on September 27, 2010, 05:51:44 PM
Lads what makes you think that the Blueshirts can deliver anything?
In this time of recession/depression its easy to sit on the sidelines and point the finger but if the Blueshirts were in power how do you know they would deliver?
Can you seriously trust an eejit like Enda Kenny to run this country? I have no faith in any party who has appointed such a numpty as their leader. I think that FG would be stronger with Richard Bruton at the helm.
Whilst FF have pished the Nation's wealth and resources up against the wall I'm not so sure that the Blueshirts are the answer. In fact they're not the answer.
By your logic so we must re-elect Fianna Fail. The only strategy FF have is to ridicule the FG leader no matter who it is. Come election time Richard Bruton would have been lampooned by the Indo same as Kenny, Noonan and the other Bruton before them. Amazing how many idiots it works on though.
This country will shortly be bankrupted by the incredible stupidity of its citizens as much as any other reasons.
sadly no Irish paper would publish the following story. Why is that?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/22/pressandpublishing (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/22/pressandpublishing)
O'Reilly newspapers back Ahern for third term
Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
The Observer, Sunday 22 April 2007 11.34 BST
Article history
Sir Tony O'Reilly is to swing his Independent Newspaper group behind Bertie Ahern in the Irish general election next month.
The Observer has learnt that all three of O'Reilly's main national titles - the Irish Independent, the Sunday Independent and the Evening Herald - will back Ahern to get re-elected.
Support from the newspaper group that controls the overwhelming majority of the press in the Republic is a major boost for the Taoiseach. Fianna Fail sources said the party was 'cracking open the champagne this weekend' over the news.
The likely date of the election is Thursday 24 May. An alternative date is the following week but the 24th remains Ahern's preferred option to go to the country.
As well as editorials supporting the current Fianna Fail/Progressive Democrat coalition, high-profile Independent Group columnists such as Eoghan Harris in the Sunday Independent are also expected to call for the Coalition's re-election.
The shift in support away from Fine Gael to Fianna Fail in the Independent Group has been as significant as Rupert Murdoch's backing of Tony Blair prior to the 1997 UK general election.
If elected for a third time, Ahern will become the most successful Taoiseach since Eamon de Valera. Paul Bew, Professor of Politics at Queen's University and author of a new book on Irish history since 1789, said a hat trick would be truly historic. 'Bertie already broke the pattern set in Irish politics from 1969. Up until he was elected for a second time in 2002 every other Irish government served only one term from 1969 before they were kicked out. He has already made history and if he gets the hat-trick, that will be a stunning achievement.'
Because in this Country the Newsmedia and RTE are the enemies of Freedom and Democracy, with Fianna Fail spivs such as O'Connor and Tubthingy among many others controlling the chatshow lite agenda and Lord Haw Haws newsmedia, what do you expect.
I don't buy the RTE conspiracy personally. Most politicians believe that all the media are out to get them and support their opponents unfairly. Most of it is just personal paranoia.
But Tony O'Reilly's IN&M would appear to be an exceptional outfit for interfering in our democratic process.
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 06:27:24 PM
I don't buy the RTE conspiracy personally. Most politicians believe that all the media are out to get them and support their opponents unfairly. Most of it is just personal paranoia.
But Tony O'Reilly's IN&M would appear to be an exceptional outfit for interfering in our democratic process.
You don't believe that Ryan the Andrews Tubridy isn't Ogra Fianna Fail in disguise and acting as the Greek Horse into our homes every weekend.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 06:27:24 PM
I don't buy the RTE conspiracy personally. Most politicians believe that all the media are out to get them and support their opponents unfairly. Most of it is just personal paranoia.
But Tony O'Reilly's IN&M would appear to be an exceptional outfit for interfering in our democratic process.
You don't believe that Ryan the Andrews Tubridy isn't Ogra Fianna Fail in disguise and acting as the Greek Horse into our homes every weekend.
No and I don't particularly care either.
What I want is this Government thrown out on their ear for bankrupting us. That means putting FG in next no matter how you look at it. If they then screw it up I want them turfed out onto the scrapheap and ideally something new to come in and replace them both.
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 06:48:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 27, 2010, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 27, 2010, 06:27:24 PM
I don't buy the RTE conspiracy personally. Most politicians believe that all the media are out to get them and support their opponents unfairly. Most of it is just personal paranoia.
But Tony O'Reilly's IN&M would appear to be an exceptional outfit for interfering in our democratic process.
You don't believe that Ryan the Andrews Tubridy isn't Ogra Fianna Fail in disguise and acting as the Greek Horse into our homes every weekend.
No and I don't particularly care either.
What I don't want is this Government thrown out on their ear for bankrupting us. That means putting FG in next no matter how you look at it. If they then screw it up I want them turfed out onto the scrapheap and ideally something new to come in and replace them both.
Thats fair enough re: Fine Gael, thats how a mature democracy should work, but Ireland's so called democracy has been infintile for decades. Those addicted to the Fianna FAIL heroin have ruined us on so many levels not just fiscally.
I still believe there is something very rotten at the heart of RTE.
I think there is a strong possibility that FF and labour will go into a coalition. FG are a mess, even with FF at their lowest ebb they are not making inroads. Labour might be shy on publishing actual details but people who are struggling will see a vote into the left as a means to helping themselves more than a vote for conservative party no 2 Fine Gael. As much as I detest FF I have a serious problem with FG, their history, their leader (who is an idiot, his "I won't do business with SF" being the thing that annoys me most about him - talk about making an issue out of nothing). The country does not like Kenny and there is a strong possibility when people get into the poll both they will reject FG based on a dislike for Kenny and give Labour a strong bump. A stronger SF and maybe Greens/independents has an outside chance of making a 100% left government too.
who do you vote for FF has the country in a mess have no confidence in FG leader and Labour has no policy's
Would have voted for FG if Bruton has been leader
The way I see it...
Kenny as a leader is no more or less competant than Cowen but Kenny would have a better image for Ireland abroad. He looks and acts like a States man. I disagree with how FG would run the Country but at least I know how they would do it and they would do it with more transparency than FF. The problem with FF and Cowen is that I can't trust them. I'd rather have someone working for me who's idea's I didn't agree with than someone who I don't trust and be afraid they are stealing from me and telling me lies constantly.
Labour's ranks are swelling with FF this past year. I'd prefer Labour in Government but I worry about their commitment to their ideals. Labour along with other left wingers would be the best bet nut Gilmore would be unable to hold that together. Ego Gilmore wants to lead a 2 party Government with a large majority. He wants to go in with a party that will shoot down his promises for a program for Government and eventually help cut his ties with the unions.
I think it's be a LAB FF government but I'd rather see a FG LAb. I don't like either option but I would switch them in a heart beat from what we have now.
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 09:58:29 PM
The way I see it...
Kenny as a leader is no more or less competant than Cowen but Kenny would have a better image for Ireland abroad. He looks and acts like a States man. I disagree with how FG would run the Country but at least I know how they would do it and they would do it with more transparency than FF. The problem with FF and Cowen is that I can't trust them. I'd rather have someone working for me who's idea's I didn't agree with than someone who I don't trust and be afraid they are stealing from me and telling me lies constantly.
Labour's ranks are swelling with FF this past year. I'd prefer Labour in Government but I worry about their commitment to their ideals. Labour along with other left wingers would be the best bet nut Gilmore would be unable to hold that together. Ego Gilmore wants to lead a 2 party Government with a large majority. He wants to go in with a party that will shoot down his promises for a program for Government and eventually help cut his ties with the unions.
I think it's be a LAB FF government but I'd rather see a FG LAb. I don't like either option but I would switch them in a heart beat from what we have now.
Not a Gilmore fan, i wanted rabitte, one of the only td who's ever impressed me and that's not just cos he was sitting in front of me at the tyrone v armagh semi in 2005. He was there on his own, just watching the game nobody knew him (as we were mostly nordies).
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 27, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on September 27, 2010, 09:58:29 PM
The way I see it...
Kenny as a leader is no more or less competant than Cowen but Kenny would have a better image for Ireland abroad. He looks and acts like a States man. I disagree with how FG would run the Country but at least I know how they would do it and they would do it with more transparency than FF. The problem with FF and Cowen is that I can't trust them. I'd rather have someone working for me who's idea's I didn't agree with than someone who I don't trust and be afraid they are stealing from me and telling me lies constantly.
Labour's ranks are swelling with FF this past year. I'd prefer Labour in Government but I worry about their commitment to their ideals. Labour along with other left wingers would be the best bet nut Gilmore would be unable to hold that together. Ego Gilmore wants to lead a 2 party Government with a large majority. He wants to go in with a party that will shoot down his promises for a program for Government and eventually help cut his ties with the unions.
I think it's be a LAB FF government but I'd rather see a FG LAb. I don't like either option but I would switch them in a heart beat from what we have now.
Not a Gilmore fan, i wanted rabitte, one of the only td who's ever impressed me and that's not just cos he was sitting in front of me at the tyrone v armagh semi in 2005. He was there on his own, just watching the game nobody knew him (as we were mostly nordies).
Enda Kenny & Pat Rabitte would have been the Mayo Dream Team ;)
When you have a dishonest, incompetent government, and any possible alternatives would be even worse, where can the average citizen turn. The barricades might be a start, but ultimately futile protest. Local communities groups will have to defend and develop their own areas, and bring forth respected local independent people to send too the Dail. To return any of the failed established parties would be akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Time too create the second Republic, a genuine democracy of the people
Quote from: Pangurban on September 28, 2010, 02:48:27 AM
When you have a dishonest, incompetent government, and any possible alternatives would be even worse, where can the average citizen turn. The barricades might be a start, but ultimately futile protest. Local communities groups will have to defend and develop their own areas, and bring forth respected local independent people to send too the Dail. To return any of the failed established parties would be akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Time too create the second Republic, a genuine democracy of the people
Those who don't want to vote Fine Gael, Labour or even Sinn Fein are just whingy Fianna Failures who are having a sulk coz they can't vote for Dev's party and so if they can't play the game the way they want to, they are taking their ball and going home.
Unfortunately i have no ball to take home, as FF,FG, and Labour have denied me the right as an Irish Citizen to cast a vote. So my remarks are free from partisanship, objective and meant to stimulate some original thought and analysis. There has to a viable and workable alternative to the present failed system and parties
Quote from: Pangurban on September 28, 2010, 03:22:17 AM
Unfortunately i have no ball to take home, as FF,FG, and Labour have denied me the right as an Irish Citizen to cast a vote. So my remarks are free from partisanship, objective and meant to stimulate some original thought and analysis. There has to a viable and workable alternative to the present failed system and parties
Fair enough Pangurban (I notice you dropped Sinn Fein from my list), but do you acknowledge that their is a very big slice of those who moan that FG, Labour, Sinn Fein don't provide an alternative or that they are all the same, are disaffected Fianna Failers who cannot adjust to the reality that Fianna Fail is not the great party that they once thought it was. They refuse to vote for any of the other parties just because they cannot vote FF in good conscious. I am not saying all, but a huge percentage of those who claim that there is no alternative.
I have found this by challengeing people who make this claim, and more than not with a bit of persistence when I scrape away the paint of a disaffected voter who can find no alternative, more than often I find a layer of Fianna Fail green below.
These people are the people that I feel have denied my rights to live in a viable, free, democratic, modern, corruption-free Irish Republic all my life.
MayoGodhelpus you are a declared FGer. Fair enough. However it is hypocrisy to attack all critics of FG as FFailures. Everyone is entitled to vote as they choose.
For the record I have voted for almost every party over the years for a variety of reasons, usually attached to the context of the day.
Right now I will vote FG and possibly Labour (undecided on that until they actually commit to some policies) for the simple reason that I want to see the most incompetent government in the history of the State thrown out on their ears. The alternative is to re-elect them, which would make the proverbial turkeys that voted for Christmas look like visionaries.
After the election FG and Labour will have to do some serious work revitalising the country and sorting out the people who got us into the mess. This is something FF are obviously not going to do. Kenny has his weaknesses, particularly when interviewed. Unlike Cowen Kenny has form for revitalising. He has taken FG from what some media commentators were saying was the end of the road for the party in 2002, back to a very healthy position. Even his enemies in FG admit that. Now if he could use some of that energy productively for the State it would be far better than what we have at the moment.
If FG and Labour fail as FF are currently doing then we should throw them out as well. Ideally a new option will have emerged by then, or failing that FF might get rid of it's mountains of dead wood and reinvent itself as a political party for the people, rather than a tool for bankers and developers.
Quotefailing that FF might get rid of it's mountains of dead wood and reinvent itself as a political party for the people, rather than a tool for bankers and developers.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Yeah right - L'etat c'est moi
Quote from: muppet on September 28, 2010, 03:26:02 PM
MayoGodhelpus you are a declared FGer. Fair enough. However it is hypocrisy to attack all critics of FG as FFailures. Everyone is entitled to vote as they choose.
For the record I have voted for almost every party over the years for a variety of reasons, usually attached to the context of the day.
Right now I will vote FG and possibly Labour (undecided on that until they actually commit to some policies) for the simple reason that I want to see the most incompetent government in the history of the State thrown out on their ears. The alternative is to re-elect them, which would make the proverbial turkeys that voted for Christmas look like visionaries.
After the election FG and Labour will have to do some serious work revitalising the country and sorting out the people who got us into the mess. This is something FF are obviously not going to do. Kenny has his weaknesses, particularly when interviewed. Unlike Cowen Kenny has form for revitalising. He has taken FG from what some media commentators were saying was the end of the road for the party in 2002, back to a very healthy position. Even his enemies in FG admit that. Now if he could use some of that energy productively for the State it would be far better than what we have at the moment.
If FG and Labour fail as FF are currently doing then we should throw them out as well. Ideally a new option will have emerged by then, or failing that FF might get rid of it's mountains of dead wood and reinvent itself as a political party for the people, rather than a tool for bankers and developers.
It could be argued that Cowan has done more to revitalise FG than Kenny has
Quote from: Cde on September 28, 2010, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 28, 2010, 03:26:02 PM
MayoGodhelpus you are a declared FGer. Fair enough. However it is hypocrisy to attack all critics of FG as FFailures. Everyone is entitled to vote as they choose.
For the record I have voted for almost every party over the years for a variety of reasons, usually attached to the context of the day.
Right now I will vote FG and possibly Labour (undecided on that until they actually commit to some policies) for the simple reason that I want to see the most incompetent government in the history of the State thrown out on their ears. The alternative is to re-elect them, which would make the proverbial turkeys that voted for Christmas look like visionaries.
After the election FG and Labour will have to do some serious work revitalising the country and sorting out the people who got us into the mess. This is something FF are obviously not going to do. Kenny has his weaknesses, particularly when interviewed. Unlike Cowen Kenny has form for revitalising. He has taken FG from what some media commentators were saying was the end of the road for the party in 2002, back to a very healthy position. Even his enemies in FG admit that. Now if he could use some of that energy productively for the State it would be far better than what we have at the moment.
If FG and Labour fail as FF are currently doing then we should throw them out as well. Ideally a new option will have emerged by then, or failing that FF might get rid of it's mountains of dead wood and reinvent itself as a political party for the people, rather than a tool for bankers and developers.
It could be argued that Cowan has done more to revitalise FG than Kenny has
It could, except that most of it was done between 2002 and 2007.