Cork will be out for revenge big time. Hardly worth showing up is it?
Dunno, happy with the win and what sounded like a very good second half performance, but got the impression from the 9 changes and from the commentary that Cork weren't gonna bust a gut on this one. Very different game in 2 weeks.
Quote from: bucko on April 11, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
Dunno, happy with the win and what sounded like a very good second half performance, but got the impression from the 9 changes and from the commentary that Cork weren't gonna bust a gut on this one. Very different game in 2 weeks.
So if they make another 9 changes again does that mean they want to win, or that they aren't taking it seriously?
Munster cute hoorism is worth doing a thesis on. If they win, they are great. If they lose, they didn't want to win really so they are still great. It's win win. Or lose win.
Quote from: muppet on April 12, 2010, 03:31:23 AM
Quote from: bucko on April 11, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
Dunno, happy with the win and what sounded like a very good second half performance, but got the impression from the 9 changes and from the commentary that Cork weren't gonna bust a gut on this one. Very different game in 2 weeks.
So if they make another 9 changes again does that mean they want to win, or that they aren't taking it seriously?
Munster cute hoorism is worth doing a thesis on. If they win, they are great. If they lose, they didn't want to win really so they are still great. It's win win. Or lose win.
Very apt points, muppet.
Of course the next game could see Cork knocking the stuffing out of us—then again it might not. They just mightn't devour us like a plate load of drisheen. Many of Counihan's second string would find a spot on most other IC teams in the land. No doubt he has a very experienced panel and the competition amongst them for places must be red hot. His team didn't stay with Mayo in the second half yesterday but they didn't lie down either.
Mayo are developing into a very serious side at a fast rate and full credit is due to John O'Mahony for getting them to play to their best potential. Maybe he didn't have his preferred 15 on show yesterday either. I doubt that Cork will be taking anything for granted the next day.
Fair play to the lads. 6 wins against 7 very tough teams is a massive achievement. People may give out about the competition, the quality of a team at a particular time of the season etc. etc. but the facts are there - you have to be good to win that number of games and with 4 wins on the road you have to be impressed.
Given that this has been achieved with long-term unavailability of McGarrity, Kilcoyne, Harte, Cunniffe, Gardiner and Barry Moran it is all the more pleasing. We have a nice panel of players coming together.
As for the Final you would have to think Cork at full pelt will be a tough ask but all questions have been answered so far. Other counties may sneer, or differ, but a League win would be a big achievement and would make 2010 a success for the long-term development of the squad regardless of whether any silverware follows in the Summer.
Do we reckon it will be on in Dublin?
Johnno was calling for a football/hurling double header in Croke Park. Mayo V Cork, Galway V Cork. Personally I would like to go one further and call for Roscommon V Dublin to join us. The Dubs get a big home support, Cork football and hurling fans get to see both of their teams and the Rossies get a huge Connacht support behind them, same for Mayo and Galway. That would come close to fill Croke Park.
QuoteThat would come close to fill Croke Park.
Not a hope in hell. 40,000 would still be a serious crowd.
Cork won't follow the footballers.
Galway won't follow anybody.
Mayo will bring a crowd but still be fearful.
Only the most committed supporters actually know there is an u21 championship.
Quote from: Barney on April 12, 2010, 04:14:43 PM
QuoteThat would come close to fill Croke Park.
Not a hope in hell. 40,000 would still be a serious crowd.
Cork won't follow the footballers.
Galway won't follow anybody.
Mayo will bring a crowd but still be fearful.
Only the most committed supporters actually know there is an u21 championship.
The Galway hurlers are actually getting decent support recently. A Kilkenny friend of mine said he couldn't believe how many were down in Nowlan Park for the recent league match between the two. That said most of them would have minimal interest even in watching Galway play football let alone Mayo and Cork. They'd be gone as soon as the hurling was over.
Cork hurlers will bring a good crowd as they usually do.
Hard to see past a cork win, when they get going they look the most serious outfit in the country. Kerrigan actually scares the life out of me. They have prob 8 scorers in the team, having said that Mayo have been impressive in that regard, 10 against monaghan and another 5 yesterday.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 13, 2010, 12:00:43 AM
Hard to see past a cork win, when they get going they look the most serious outfit in the country. Kerrigan actually scares the life out of me. They have prob 8 scorers in the team, having said that Mayo have been impressive in that regard, 10 against monaghan and another 5 yesterday.
Mayo had 8 scorers from play against Cork. According to mayogaablog.com:
David Clarke; Chris Barrett (0-1), Ger Cafferkey, Liam O'Malley; Donal Vaughan (0-1), Trevor Howley, Kevin McLoughlin; Tom Parsons, Seamus O'Shea (0-1); Andy Moran (0-2), Alan Dillon (0-4, three frees), Trevor Mortimer; Mark Ronaldson (0-1), Aidan O'Shea (0-2), Conor Mortimer (0-4, two frees). Subs: Pat Harte for Parsons, Alan Freeman for Dillon.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 13, 2010, 12:00:43 AM
Hard to see past a cork win, when they get going they look the most serious outfit in the country. Kerrigan actually scares the life out of me. They have prob 8 scorers in the team, having said that Mayo have been impressive in that regard, 10 against monaghan and another 5 yesterday.
Realistically, Cork are going be heavily backed to win this one. They have to be as Counihan has built a solid, experienced side with a number of really top class players throughout.
On present form, if All Irelands could be won in April, Sam would be heading Leewards. I think Mayo at this stage could best be described as a work in progress.
However, Paidi O'Se had an interesting piece in the Sunday Indo a few weeks ago. Maybe it's just me but when it comes to Mayo, Paidi usually dishes up an irritating mixture of seafóid agus plamás.
In this article, Paidi gave his predictions for the year ahead and, unsurprisingly, he tipped Cork to win the league. But then he went on to shortlist Mayo for the All Ireland.
I hope he got it right but maybe this year it might be asking too much of Mayo to go the whole way. I think he was saying that Cork are now at their peak but Mayo are closing the gap. Nothing more can be said of either side at the moment and there are quite a few other counties with different ideas.
I hope Johnno gets his wish and the next game is played at Croke Park—it's all part of the learning process; just one step at a time.
So it looks like a drubbing so does it?
If Cork play their Championship team there could be nearly a new team out the next day, everybody fit. Cadogan, Shields, Lynch, O Leary, Miskella, O Connor, O Neill, Kelly, Kerrigan.
I think a right hard test is what we need right now.
Quote from: moysider on April 13, 2010, 10:57:06 PM
So it looks like a drubbing so does it?
If Cork play their Championship team there could be nearly a new team out the next day, everybody fit. Cadogan, Shields, Lynch, O Leary, Miskella, O Connor, O Neill, Kelly, Kerrigan.
I think a right hard test is what we need right now.
I think it's the very least we're going to get. After the Cork team for sunday was named last week, it was obvious that Counihan wasn't overly concerned with the result. He got to see what is very close to our best 15 while keeping his powder dry. Saying that, he may have been disappointed that his second string selection didn't perform too well and his bench mightn't be as strong as he thought, if those Cork players were looking to play themselves into contention for the league final they didn't do too well. Also, if he had hoped to give Anthony Lynch and Graham Canty game time, that fell down a bit too, Lynch didn't start and Canty went off injured. As muppet said, Munster cute hoorism is most likely a factor here.
A Connacht clean sweep of Mayo,Galway and Ros would be magnificent. If I had to pick one it would be ros in the under 21 but I'm not fussy.
Apparently Cadogan is out for Cork.
Yeah he is out for 8 weeks according to the paper.
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
From Hoganstand...
Seamus O'Shea is a doubt for Mayo's National Football League Division One final against Cork on Sunday week.
The Breaffy clubman picked up a foot injury in last Sunday's win over the Rebels and also sustained a blow to the head, which has left him as a concern for manager John O'Mahony ahead of his team's showdown at Croke Park.
"Seamus did get a pretty bad knock to the foot and we initially thought it might need an x-ray," said O'Mahony.
"But that doesn't seem to be the case now and we'll just have to wait and see what happens during the week. Apart from that, and Donal Vaughan getting a bang on the leg, everybody else seems to have come through okay."
Top-scorer Enda Varley should be fit for the Division One decider after failing a late fitness test last Saturday which forced him out of Sunday's 0-16 to 0-11 win at Pairc Ui Chaoimh, while Ronan McGarrity and Aidan Kilcoyne are both also said to be in contention as they recover from hamstring and collarbone injuries, respectively.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
I'm starting to think they can shove their subscription up their holes - not one live NFL game and those that are on delayed coverage are shown at midday on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm paying good money to basically watch Dutch and Russian soccer every week, they lost the 6 Nations to ESPN who would only show that on their HD channel for an extra $18 a month.
Setanta Australia are c***ts, albeit midly profitable c***ts
CNUTS - just in case anyone misunderstood
Quote from: stephenite on April 15, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
I'm starting to think they can shove their subscription up their holes - not one live NFL game and those that are on delayed coverage are shown at midday on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm paying good money to basically watch Dutch and Russian soccer every week, they lost the 6 Nations to ESPN who would only show that on their HD channel for an extra $18 a month.
Setanta Australia are c***ts, albeit midly profitable c***ts
CNUTS - just in case anyone misunderstood
3.30pm Irish time + 9 hours Australian time = a drunk Stephenite ranting at 12.30am??!!
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 15, 2010, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: stephenite on April 15, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
I'm starting to think they can shove their subscription up their holes - not one live NFL game and those that are on delayed coverage are shown at midday on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm paying good money to basically watch Dutch and Russian soccer every week, they lost the 6 Nations to ESPN who would only show that on their HD channel for an extra $18 a month.
Setanta Australia are c***ts, albeit midly profitable c***ts
CNUTS - just in case anyone misunderstood
3.30pm Irish time + 9 hours Australian time = a drunk Stephenite ranting at 12.30am??!!
Was just in from a wedding :D
However, I stand by every word about that shower
Quote from: stephenite on April 16, 2010, 02:47:53 AM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 15, 2010, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: stephenite on April 15, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
I'm starting to think they can shove their subscription up their holes - not one live NFL game and those that are on delayed coverage are shown at midday on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm paying good money to basically watch Dutch and Russian soccer every week, they lost the 6 Nations to ESPN who would only show that on their HD channel for an extra $18 a month.
Setanta Australia are c***ts, albeit midly profitable c***ts
CNUTS - just in case anyone misunderstood
3.30pm Irish time + 9 hours Australian time = a drunk Stephenite ranting at 12.30am??!!
Was just in from a wedding :D
However, I stand by every word about that shower
I kinda twigged that you were tired and emotional alright!
It had my own pawprints all over it- if you know what I mean.
Quote from: stephenite on April 16, 2010, 02:47:53 AM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 15, 2010, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: stephenite on April 15, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
I'm starting to think they can shove their subscription up their holes - not one live NFL game and those that are on delayed coverage are shown at midday on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm paying good money to basically watch Dutch and Russian soccer every week, they lost the 6 Nations to ESPN who would only show that on their HD channel for an extra $18 a month.
Setanta Australia are c***ts, albeit midly profitable c***ts
CNUTS - just in case anyone misunderstood
3.30pm Irish time + 9 hours Australian time = a drunk Stephenite ranting at 12.30am??!!
Was just in from a wedding :D
However, I stand by every word about that shower
Very good :D
Yeah, I concur. 'A shower of bastards' as Fr Jack Hackett once referred to the needy.
Canty's out for league final, looks like Andy hit him a fair rattle the last day.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/canty-injury-a-huge-blow-to-rebels-nfl-final-prospects-a-real-fair-lady-2140374.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/canty-injury-a-huge-blow-to-rebels-nfl-final-prospects-a-real-fair-lady-2140374.html)
Maybe I'm alone on this, but after seeing pics of the smaller guys in the squad ie Andy, Ronny, Barret, I think these guys have bulked up a good bit. I know you can't train height but strength has to help. Vaughan, while not small, has definitly filled out a bit since last year. Maybe the lads are doing alot more work than we realise?
Do know what the story with Lynch Shields and P O Neill but the rebels seem to be falling like flys. One thing for sure Counihan always names dummy teams . Expect 2 changes from team named.
Let's hope the Cork team that turns up will be like dummies as well! ;)
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Sounds like a fairly positive man :P. I hope he doesnt get near the mayo players as he'll be giving us a chance against ye.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 15, 2010, 10:34:39 AM
From Hoganstand...
Seamus O'Shea is a doubt for Mayo's National Football League Division One final against Cork on Sunday week.
The Breaffy clubman picked up a foot injury in last Sunday's win over the Rebels and also sustained a blow to the head, which has left him as a concern for manager John O'Mahony ahead of his team's showdown at Croke Park.
"Seamus did get a pretty bad knock to the foot and we initially thought it might need an x-ray," said O'Mahony.
"But that doesn't seem to be the case now and we'll just have to wait and see what happens during the week. Apart from that, and Donal Vaughan getting a bang on the leg, everybody else seems to have come through okay."
Top-scorer Enda Varley should be fit for the Division One decider after failing a late fitness test last Saturday which forced him out of Sunday's 0-16 to 0-11 win at Pairc Ui Chaoimh, while Ronan McGarrity and Aidan Kilcoyne are both also said to be in contention as they recover from hamstring and collarbone injuries, respectively.
Seamie O'Shea played at midfield today for Breaffy so he's good for the final.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Cork will be deserved favourites but I'd be disappointed if we're not there or thereabouts going into the last 10. It would be great to win because winning in Croke Park would do a lot to erase any damage done by the Meath game last year.
Starting to look like volcanic ash is going to keep me out of the country for this one. I've never spent so much time looking at weather forecasts hoping for a south-westerly wind to kick in and blow the shit away.
Good news on O'Shea though.
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 18, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Cork will be deserved favourites but I'd be disappointed if we're not there or thereabouts going into the last 10. It would be great to win because winning in Croke Park would do a lot to erase any damage done by the Meath game last year.
Starting to look like volcanic ash is going to keep me out of the country for this one. I've never spent so much time looking at weather forecasts hoping for a south-westerly wind to kick in and blow the shit away.
Good news on O'Shea though.
The southwesterlies are supposed to kick in on Friday.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:47:39 PM
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 18, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Cork will be deserved favourites but I'd be disappointed if we're not there or thereabouts going into the last 10. It would be great to win because winning in Croke Park would do a lot to erase any damage done by the Meath game last year.
Starting to look like volcanic ash is going to keep me out of the country for this one. I've never spent so much time looking at weather forecasts hoping for a south-westerly wind to kick in and blow the shit away.
Good news on O'Shea though.
The southwesterlies are supposed to kick in on Friday.
My flight from Leeds is lunchtime on Saturday! Come on southwesterlies... :)
Hopefully no injuries in club games today.
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 18, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Cork will be deserved favourites but I'd be disappointed if we're not there or thereabouts going into the last 10. It would be great to win because winning in Croke Park would do a lot to erase any damage done by the Meath game last year.
Starting to look like volcanic ash is going to keep me out of the country for this one. I've never spent so much time looking at weather forecasts hoping for a south-westerly wind to kick in and blow the shit away.Good news on O'Shea though.
I can see why you re hoping for that. Right now we re having lovely weather. As soon as those south-westerlies arrive its going to be back to the usual rain shit.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 18, 2010, 09:34:46 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Sounds like a fairly positive man :P. I hope he doesnt get near the mayo players as he'll be giving us a chance against ye.
There's plenty like him out there believe me. I d say he s kinda typical.
I ve only come across one person so far actually going to the game and nobody that thinks we can win. I happen to think we will.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
Can ya take another look there buc. It's 4.45 on the
Tuesday morning according to their website.
I sent a very contrary email to the f***rs the other day and will be cancelling my subscription to them.
Looks like there won't be anywhere to watch the game in Sydney at all, f**k it anyway
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 19, 2010, 03:47:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
Can ya take another look there buc. It's 4.45 on the Tuesday morning according to their website.
I sent a very contrary email to the f***rs the other day and will be cancelling my subscription to them.
Looks like there won't be anywhere to watch the game in Sydney at all, f**k it anyway
Ara feck, thats a disaster! I was sure they had it down for the Monday morning when I looked last week. That means sitting up on Sunday nite to hear the scores, then getting up at 430 on Tuesday to watch the game before work... Why? The bloody French league gets higher priority >:(
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 18, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Christ, I was at the Knockmore v Crossmolina match today, and if it wasn't depressing enough some fella (didn't know him) starts criticising Mayo, 'they're useless, poor against Dublin, Monaghan should have won' etc. He couldn't understand how they actually won against Kerry, Derry, Tyrone or Cork. He won't be going because Cork will win by 10 points he reckons...
What does everyone else think? I think Mayo will give it a right good go on Sunday.
Every parish has one!
Mayo are deservingly in the NFL Final. Regarding the Dublin game, they shot so many wides that they lost the game but the better football team on the day lost that Sunday.
Mayo to win a National trophy by beating Cork by 3 or 4 8)
Does anyone know how easy or difficult it is going to be to get tickets down there on Sunday? Heading down with a few mates and we never got tickets from any of our clubs, ticketmaster seems to be out and we wanted tickets beside each other. They'd hardly be expecting more than 40k for the game would they so you'd expect there to be plenty of tickets around, just don't wanna be running round Dublin all afternoon or queueing for ages for tickets.
Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on April 20, 2010, 11:21:15 AM
Does anyone know how easy or difficult it is going to be to get tickets down there on Sunday? Heading down with a few mates and we never got tickets from any of our clubs, ticketmaster seems to be out and we wanted tickets beside each other. They'd hardly be expecting more than 40k for the game would they so you'd expect there to be plenty of tickets around, just don't wanna be running round Dublin all afternoon or queueing for ages for tickets.
mayo1955 should have a couple to spare as his son and ex-girlfriend seem to have lost interest.
The ex-girlfriend has lost interest alright. ;D
jaysus lads 5 days to go and not a decent row here yet enen amongst ourselves.
I believe the team will be
K omalley
L omalley BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Hard to see us losing
Do we even have any Cork posters?
Quote from: Jinxy on April 20, 2010, 09:51:39 PM
Do we even have any Cork posters?
Reillers considers himself something of a GAA ecumenist but we will manage without him.
I'd say that'll be the team alright Ros. I think Liam O'Malley is living in Ballina so I think he should be dropped as well.
Gardiner also has to fight his way back into the team, leave C Barrett at no 5 for Sunday's match. Agree with the omission of McGarrity though around the middle. I don't know if Kilcoyne would have the necessary match practice to start on Sunday but he may well be sprung from the bench.
I can see Cork winning this fairly handy.
Would be great to see kilcoyne back but doubt it.
Cld see conor dropped for ronaldo, on the strength of the last 2 days I'd agree
tickets willbe fierce handy to come by, plenty of premier level
ones knocking about as well I'd say
Cant see Varley even togging out, he was clearly not right at the weekend for Garry. >:(
Well if it is a hamstring, he should have time on his side. If he was very bad, I couldn't imagine Johnno letting him tog, considering Trevor Howley was rested with a very mild calf strain.
THe news from Cork is that they have huge injury problems. Canty ,Cadogan, Pearse o Neill , Miskella, Anthony Lynch all out. Noel o Leary played for his division last week and was given the complete runaround by Donnacha O Connor.
Quote from: marym on April 20, 2010, 11:17:30 PM
THe news from Cork is that they have huge injury problems. Canty ,Cadogan, Pearse o Neill , Miskella, Anthony Lynch all out. Noel o Leary played for his division last week and was given the complete runaround by Donnacha O Connor.
What's the feeling down Cork way, marym?
Does any one think Mayo have a chance or will it be an easy one for your lads?
They fear Aidan O Shea. Counihan played 37 players in the League and still has not sorted out fullback. With Cadogan and Canty injured he is back to square one.Even if we had a few of the injured players ,we would be very confident but there is no doubt that these are some of the best players in the country and very hard to replace.
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 19, 2010, 03:47:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
Can ya take another look there buc. It's 4.45 on the Tuesday morning according to their website.
I sent a very contrary email to the f***rs the other day and will be cancelling my subscription to them.
Looks like there won't be anywhere to watch the game in Sydney at all, f**k it anyway
Bollox. Midwest it will have to be so. Not all bad i suppose, might catch the funeral announcements before hand..... :P
Quote from: rosnarun on April 20, 2010, 09:50:35 PM
jaysus lads 5 days to go and not a decent row here yet enen amongst ourselves.
I believe the team will be
K omalley
L omalley BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Hard to see us losing
BJP?? Did i miss something, he going to start??Didn't hear he was back in the squad?? Whats the story with McGarrity, defo out?? And is Gardiner back from his broken arm??
He came on for Cross for the last few minutes against Knockmore. I still wouldn't start him just because he's fit again though. I'd make him earn his way back into the team.
Anyone know if there is a special train from Castlebar for the game on sunday?????
Quote from: Ranger on April 21, 2010, 12:07:08 PM
Anyone know if there is a special train from Castlebar for the game on sunday?????
Don't know if it's a special but there's a train leaving Heuston @ 19:15 on Sunday evening.
Thanks Geoff
That sounds good.
Quote from: ballinaman on April 21, 2010, 05:56:36 AM
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 19, 2010, 03:47:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:44:13 AM
Setanta Oz showing delayed coverage of the game at 4:45am :o
Will be a late night!!
Can ya take another look there buc. It's 4.45 on the Tuesday morning according to their website.
I sent a very contrary email to the f***rs the other day and will be cancelling my subscription to them.
Looks like there won't be anywhere to watch the game in Sydney at all, f**k it anyway
Bollox. Midwest it will have to be so. Not all bad i suppose, might catch the funeral announcements before hand..... :P
Hopefully there won't be any after the game!!!
Quote from: Jinxy on April 20, 2010, 10:07:28 PM
I can see Cork winning this fairly handy.
By how much ya reckon Jinxy, is this based on the two teams or based on the fact that its Mayo in Croke Park, or a little of A and a little of B.
Surely Mayo in croke Park with Johnno is not the same as plain Mayo in Croke Park.
Cork have had their own no show days in Porky Croky recently.
Interesting to see how midfield lines up. Will he go with Mcgarrity. Who will drop out? O'shea or Parsons to no.11. I'd prefer Parsons
Seafoid, Mayo lost to Donegal in the 2007 league final under O'Mahony's 'second coming'. Also lost to Meath last year and Tyrone the year before in Croke Park under this current regime. :-\ Jinxy may be right on this one, but I somehow think he will be wrong.
My Guess for the team to line out on sunday:
D Clarke
L O' Malley G Cafferkey K Higgins
D Vaughan T Howley K Mcloughlin
S O'Se T Parsons
A Moran A Dillon T Mortimer
C Mortimer A O'Se M Ronaldson
Potential championship starters not starting on sunday
T Cunniffe
C Barrett
P Gardiner
R McGarrity
P Harte
E Varley
A Kilcoyne
B Moran
Of those 8, 7 have being hindered by injury or work commitments over the last while. Given a clean run of health for the next few months all 7 would be in with a shout of a starting spot.
Barrret seems to be improving all the time and might even start ahead of Mcloughlin the next day.
Probably not a runner but I'd like to see Cunniffe given a go at full back with Ger Cafferkey beside him at corner back for the championship. I seem to remember Cunniffe playing full back against Tyrone in 08 and marking Sean Cavanagh. My memory is a bit hazy on it , but he seemed to have done alright only for Cavanagh pulling out some spectacular scores.
Bit of a slip up - sorry
K omalley
Chris barret BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Quote from: rosnarun on April 22, 2010, 12:02:28 AM
Bit of a slip up - sorry
K omalley
Chris barret BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Are you trying to be funny Ros or are you just being controversial and an idiot as usual?
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 22, 2010, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 22, 2010, 12:02:28 AM
Bit of a slip up - sorry
K omalley
Chris barret BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Are you trying to be funny Ros or are you just being controversial and an idiot as usual?
Probably the latter.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 22, 2010, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 22, 2010, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 22, 2010, 12:02:28 AM
Bit of a slip up - sorry
K omalley
Chris barret BJP D vaughan
P gardiner T howley K Mcloughlin
PArsons S ose
Andy A dillion A kilcoyne
E varley B moran A osé
Are you trying to be funny Ros or are you just being controversial and an idiot as usual?
Probably the latter.
Ye are easily risen lads ;D
For the mayolads in oz, its on TG4 so therefore will be on there website so you can watch it there.
I see in most team selections, no mortimers? Are they injured, out of form or what?
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 03:15:08 PM
For the mayolads in oz, its on TG4 so therefore will be on there website so you can watch it there.
I see in most team selections, no mortimers? Are they injured, out of form or what?
Unfortunately TG4 have started blocking content outside of Ireland due to pressure being put on them by Setanta. Until last year RTE regularly didn't block GAA coverage internationally on their website, but again the lovely people at Setanta put a stop to that, as well as most of the internet streams that were broadcasting.
I expect the Mortimers to be in. You could make a case for picking a half forward line without Trevor (Moran/S O'Shea/Dillon) and a full forward line without Conor (Varley/A O'Shea/Ronaldson), but I think they will play, certainly Trev will start.
Not many heading to the game from Knockmore/Ballina area. How is the rest of the county faring out?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 22, 2010, 08:02:44 PM
Not many heading to the game from Knockmore/Ballina area. How is the rest of the county faring out?
We got cars.
I got 2 free tickets and am struggling to get rid of the 2nd. Imagine what it's like in cork
I firmly believe Mayo will win on Sunday. There is a new attitude apparent in the squad judging by the interviews of the players in recent weeks and also from their performances. And if we don't win i won't lose any sleep over it because i think the players will put it behind them and get on with the championship.
There is genuine competition in this Mayo team like never seen before.
I think it's evident that players have learned a huge amount from Meath game last year. It hurt a lot of us after we started to believe. We said we wouldn't let it happen again this year. Well here's the deal lads and lassies - we're in a NFL final in croker. It's not our main goal for 2010 but it's a start.The players have responded tremendously - way above and beyond our expectations. I think they deserve to have a big support on Sunday. Let's show them that we are buying into whats going on this year. We've always been regarded as great supporters through thick and thin so why change now?
It will be a great boost to all if we can get the silverware and set us up nicely for the year. I'm urging everyone that can at all to do their best to be there on Sunday. It could be the first of a few glorious visits to Croker this year.
PRIDE......PRIDE IN THE JERSEY......PRIDE IN BEING FROM MAYO.........PRIDE AT FOLLOWING A GAME THAT NO RECESSION CAN EVER TAKE FROM US.......
Mayo team picked but will all of these fifteen start on Sunday?
David Clarke
Chris Barrett
Ger Cafferkey
Liam O'Malley
Donal Vaughan
Trevor Howley
Kevin McLoughlin
Seamus O'Shea
Tom Parsons
Andy Moran
Alan Dillon
Trevor Mortimer
Conor Mortimer
Aidan O'Shea
Mark Ronaldson
Thanks Red and Geen
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 22, 2010, 09:16:26 PM
Mayo team picked but will all of these fifteen start on Sunday?
David Clarke
Chris Barrett
Ger Cafferkey
Liam O'Malley
Donal Vaughan
Trevor Howley
Kevin McLoughlin
Seamus O'Shea
Tom Parsons
Andy Moran
Alan Dillon
Trevor Mortimer
Conor Mortimer
Aidan O'Shea
Mark Ronaldson
C'mon Mayo!
Cork team:
Paddy O'Shea
Ray Carey
Michael Shields
Eoin Cotter
Noel O'Leary
Paudie Kissane
Jamie O'Sullivan
Alan O'Connor,
Aidan Walsh
Fintan Goold
Donncha O'Connor,
Patrick Kelly
Daniel Goulding
Ciaran Sheehan
Paul Kerrigan
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 22, 2010, 09:16:26 PM
Mayo team picked but will all of these fifteen start on Sunday?
David Clarke
Chris Barrett
Ger Cafferkey
Liam O'Malley
Donal Vaughan
Trevor Howley
Kevin McLoughlin
Seamus O'Shea
Tom Parsons
Andy Moran
Alan Dillon
Trevor Mortimer
Conor Mortimer
Aidan O'Shea
Mark Ronaldson
A nice mix of youth & experience in that Mayo line up, Strong in midfield & plenty of Scorers in that forward line
Welcome one of these years, I take it ur a Mayo man, feel free to name ur club!
I'd say that's te team that will start, conor is the only one I'd drop
Shields on AOS will be a big dual, hopefully Aidan will prove his worth in Croker again
Barrett has a tough day ahead, Kerrigan is a flyer & he'll pull him every where
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 22, 2010, 09:32:36 PM
Welcome one of these years, I take it ur a Mayo man, feel free to name ur club!
I'd say that's te team that will start, conor is the only one I'd drop
Shields on AOS will be a big dual, hopefully Aidan will prove his worth in Croker again
Barrett has a tough day ahead, Kerrigan is a flyer & he'll pull him every where
Mayo through and through!!! If you cut me in 2 Id be like a stick of rock you would buy in Wellworths years ago!! Green on one side and Red on the other!! Ardnaree too! But have not played with them since my under 16 days. ( A long time ago!) A lot of other posters on other forums are slagging off the National Football League Final. They should be ashamed of themselves. Even if Mayo were not playing on Sunday I would be glued to it. It is part of our GAA heritage. There are, after all, only 2 National titles a senior player can win playing Inter County Football for his Co. (Open to correction) So good luck to Mayo on Sunday!! And to hell with the begrudgers!!!
ardnaree eh? They still trawling in the gutter's?
Well i love these new Mayo usernames fair play to ye lads
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 22, 2010, 09:49:07 PM
ardnaree eh? They still trawling in the gutter's?
Tyrawley is a different part of Ballina ALTOGETHER man!! ::) ;D
am just kidding, welcome to the site... You flying the Ardnaree flag, don't think we have any Ardnaree posters (open to correction). How they looking for da Junior. Any Mayo players there!!!
Quote from: muppet on April 22, 2010, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 22, 2010, 08:02:44 PM
Not many heading to the game from Knockmore/Ballina area. How is the rest of the county faring out?
We got cars.
:D LOL
Quote from: oneoftheseyears on April 22, 2010, 09:28:15 PM
Cork team:
Paddy O'Shea
Ray Carey
Michael Shields
Eoin Cotter
Noel O'Leary
Paudie Kissane
Jamie O'Sullivan
Alan O'Connor,
Aidan Walsh
Fintan Goold
Donncha O'Connor,
Patrick Kelly
Daniel Goulding
Ciaran Sheehan
Paul Kerrigan
Mayo to win.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 22, 2010, 09:16:26 PM
Mayo team picked but will all of these fifteen start on Sunday?
David Clarke
Chris Barrett
Ger Cafferkey
Liam O'Malley
Donal Vaughan
Trevor Howley
Kevin McLoughlin
Seamus O'Shea
Tom Parsons
Andy Moran
Alan Dillon
Trevor Mortimer
Conor Mortimer
Aidan O'Shea
Mark Ronaldson
Thanks R&GS,
I hadn't expected the team announcement so soon. I had thought Johnno would have delayed announcing his line-up until the last possible minute, as usual.
There's no change then from the starting 15 in the last game. That's okay for me as I liked what I saw in Cork. Sure, some lads took wrong options at times and might have done some things differently if they had more experience. Experience will come in time.
Right now, I'm more than happy to say that Johnno and his men are doing all that I could ask of them. Roll on Sunday and leave them at it!
PS. Just looked at you sig; If someone does ask you, you might consider putting your money on 2011. I still think this year could be a bit early but that doesn't mean I'd be disappointed if I was to be a year off target. ;D
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 22, 2010, 07:34:41 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 03:15:08 PM
For the mayolads in oz, its on TG4 so therefore will be on there website so you can watch it there.
I see in most team selections, no mortimers? Are they injured, out of form or what?
Unfortunately TG4 have started blocking content outside of Ireland due to pressure being put on them by Setanta. Until last year RTE regularly didn't block GAA coverage internationally on their website, but again the lovely people at Setanta put a stop to that, as well as most of the internet streams that were broadcasting.
I expect the Mortimers to be in. You could make a case for picking a half forward line without Trevor (Moran/S O'Shea/Dillon) and a full forward line without Conor (Varley/A O'Shea/Ronaldson), but I think they will play, certainly Trev will start.
I got an irish IP address as fail safe and worked every time, I could watch all RTE all yr up until a 5 weeks ago, i though TG4 was worldwide but that obviously changed but with th IP address it sorted it.
So the mortimers are not the fans favourite is the conclusion judging by the opinions on here but management have selected them so differing views. Looking forward to getting a look at ye on Sunday.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 11:39:07 PM
So the mortimers are not the fans favourite is the conclusion judging by the opinions on here but management have selected them so differing views. Looking forward to getting a look at ye on Sunday.
I wouldn't have that opinion about the Mortimers at all. Trevor is a horse of a man and works really hard and always plays well against Galway (if he was that fired up in every game he'd be an all star every year).
We need Conor in there and he balances out the free taking duties with his left foot. If there's a pressure kick at the end you can bet he'll put it over (like the Connacht final against Galway a few years ago).
I'd say it's the first time in ages there are 3 Shrule men starting in the forward line and only one player from the county champions in the team, how many counties can claim that!!
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 23, 2010, 12:42:07 AM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 11:39:07 PM
So the mortimers are not the fans favourite is the conclusion judging by the opinions on here but management have selected them so differing views. Looking forward to getting a look at ye on Sunday.
I wouldn't have that opinion about the Mortimers at all. Trevor is a horse of a man and works really hard and always plays well against Galway (if he was that fired up in every game he'd be an all star every year).
We need Conor in there and he balances out the free taking duties with his left foot. If there's a pressure kick at the end you can bet he'll put it over (like the Connacht final against Galway a few years ago).
I'd say it's the first time in ages there are 3 Shrule men starting in the forward line and only one player from the county champions in the team, how many counties can claim that!!
We have none of the County Champions starting against Antrim and IMO rightly so.
Also the Down team for Sunday will most likely have no representative from the county champions. There are 2 on the panel that have been used as subs on occasion during the league, but neither is likely to start in the Div 2 Final on Sunday.
That is the correct team to go with. In fact it was pretty much the only team that could be picked. Some lads have been injured and it would be criminal to drop likes of Chris Barrett. He s been superb and he/we need to know how much more he has. Kerrigan will probably be his duty on Sunday. If it was a 5 v 12 confrontation I'd go with Barrett. 2 v 15 may well be trickier but sure we ll find out, and now is the time to find out. He, and others have also been very patient. As a result we now have a decent looking 20+ players. Next Sunday we ll learn more about starters. There s also 5/6 that come in. The team that will play Sligo is still a work in progress I would think. I doubt it ll be the 15 named there. I expect McGar to start against Sligo. The likes of Harte, Gardiner, Varley and Kilcoyne might have to keep their powder dry and make impacts off the bench. Thats the nature of things. To get to a league final players have been doing well and those players are in on merit. Not like the same team that played v Meath should now just take over again, anyone? If we progress the team will evolve and subs in Croke Pk. and Mark. Park could well be lynchpins later. The Sligo game is massive imo.
As regards the Mortimors. No way will Mayo start without Trevor as long as he has a pulse. Conor is in a bit of a scrap for his place. But I still think this management will go with Mort, Moran and Sé for Champ if all fit.
Didn't the Mayo county Champs lose to Castlerea if so they can't be up to much then
Quote from: ross4life on April 23, 2010, 01:37:46 AM
Didn't the Mayo county Champs lose to Castlerea if so they can't be up to much then
8 Nov 2009 ... CONNACHT SFC SEMI-FINALS/Charlestown 1-9 Castlerea 0-11
charlestown hammered by corofin in final
Corofin (Galway) 2 - 14; Charlestown (Mayo) 0 -07
Quote from: spuds on April 23, 2010, 01:53:41 AM
Quote from: ross4life on April 23, 2010, 01:37:46 AM
Didn't the Mayo county Champs lose to Castlerea if so they can't be up to much then
8 Nov 2009 ... CONNACHT SFC SEMI-FINALS/Charlestown 1-9 Castlerea 0-11
charlestown hammered by corofin in final
Corofin (Galway) 2 - 14; Charlestown (Mayo) 0 -07
Only beating our county champs by one point more or less explains why only one Mayo county champs player is on that team so
I saw the Mayo line-up last night and was fairly happy - it was as expected really. Like Moysider, I think Barrett has earned his starting spot for Sunday, and we can always bring on Higgins if needed.
McGarritty didn't play for Ballina last weekend, and after such a long lay-off it would be asking a lot for him to start and last the 70 mins. However, I think we'll definitely see him at some stage - Parsons hasn't been in top form, and even when he is in form, it's only for patches of games.
Varley was unlucky to get his injury near the end of the league - hope he gets a run at some stage on Sunday.
The Cork team doesn't look all that intimidating to be honest. It's a fine team, and they're well capable of winning, but they're not something Mayo should (or will) fear I thnk. So I give us every chance of winning the final.
Can't wait for Sunday now - hope a big crowd decide to come up on the day - the good weather should help attract a few.
I think you're being harsh on parsons there, last yr he was brutal but this yr he has been outstanding in 4 out of the 5 live games I saw. And even in cork I didn't think he was as bad as people made out, it's one of those things though if u get the name of fading in a game ur first off.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 22, 2010, 11:28:33 PM
PS. Just looked at you sig; If someone does ask you, you might consider putting your money on 2011. I still think this year could be a bit early but that doesn't mean I'd be disappointed if I was to be a year off target. ;D
Here's hoping for you to be right Lar! But I'll leave the signature as it is for now!
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 23, 2010, 09:21:11 AM
I think you're being harsh on parsons there, last yr he was brutal but this yr he has been outstanding in 4 out of the 5 live games I saw. And even in cork I didn't think he was as bad as people made out, it's one of those things though if u get the name of fading in a game ur first off.
Maybe I am, and he's definitely better this year than last. But I still think he fades out of games for far too long. Granted, I might be comparing him to Seamus O'Shea this year who is an absolute animal and gives it everyting in every game right to the end. I'd love to see Parsons apply the same work-ethic because I think he's a brilliant footballer ability-wise.
Again harsh, i think he's really upped his work rate this year. I would have put his league performance on a par with SOS
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 23, 2010, 12:42:07 AM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 11:39:07 PM
So the mortimers are not the fans favourite is the conclusion judging by the opinions on here but management have selected them so differing views. Looking forward to getting a look at ye on Sunday.
I wouldn't have that opinion about the Mortimers at all. Trevor is a horse of a man
but not as much as Stevie Coppell
Quote from: moysider on April 23, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
That is the correct team to go with. In fact it was pretty much the only team that could be picked. Some lads have been injured and it would be criminal to drop likes of Chris Barrett. He s been superb and he/we need to know how much more he has. Kerrigan will probably be his duty on Sunday. If it was a 5 v 12 confrontation I'd go with Barrett. 2 v 15 may well be trickier but sure we ll find out, and now is the time to find out. He, and others have also been very patient. As a result we now have a decent looking 20+ players. Next Sunday we ll learn more about starters. There s also 5/6 that come in. The team that will play Sligo is still a work in progress I would think. I doubt it ll be the 15 named there. I expect McGar to start against Sligo. The likes of Harte, Gardiner, Varley and Kilcoyne might have to keep their powder dry and make impacts off the bench. Thats the nature of things. To get to a league final players have been doing well and those players are in on merit. Not like the same team that played v Meath should now just take over again, anyone? If we progress the team will evolve and subs in Croke Pk. and Mark. Park could well be lynchpins later. The Sligo game is massive imo.
As regards the Mortimors. No way will Mayo start without Trevor as long as he has a pulse. Conor is in a bit of a scrap for his place. But I still think this management will go with Mort, Moran and Sé for Champ if all fit.
Spot on Moysider!
Janey, when the pair of us is happy with Johnno and his team, things must be looking up. ;D
But O'Mahony stopped his endless chopping and changing about a long time ago and the results are there to be seen. I feel he is getting close to his preferred 15 at this stage and changes from now on will be minimal. In all my years, I have never seen a team like the one he is presently developing- the style of play and the type of player he seems to be going with break all Mayo stereotypes.
The FB line is the most mobile I have seen to date and if Keith does get back in there, he can only add to the effectiveness of the line. I honestly thought the three of them were going to be eaten alive when I saw them line up against their Cork opponents last game out. The height and weight difference was striking- or so it seemed to me. I don't remember any of them making a clean overhead catch that day but they harried and hassled and blocked down so much that the langers only got one clean shot at Clarkie.
I see no reason at all why Chris Barrett should be dropped at this stage; he got MOTM that day, didn't he? I think all the backs are there on merit and it's up to those in the wings to fight their way back in. IMO, Keith probably will and Peadar probably won't, barring injuries or loss of form of any of the incumbents.
I agree with Tubberman re Parsons. He has undoubted talent but is liable to fade out at times. Still, he has shown what he is capable of and McGar will have a fight on his hands if he is to replace him for the championships.
The HF line is as good as we've got and I don't see any obvious advantage in messing about with the FF boys either. The three lads there got a bit mixed up at times down in Cork but, once again, I can't see any obvious advantage to be gained by dropping or shifting any of them.
I think we're all set to go now with the best we have and I see no reason to be afraid of them hoors from Cork or anybody else.
Cosmo....so defo no chance of TG4 streaming it??
Like the look of the team. Up Mayo!
Much better Cork forwards for Sunday. A very young defence. This guy Jamie O Sullivan did a great job for Cork at under 21 level on Tommy Walsh.
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2010, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: Bod Mor on April 23, 2010, 12:42:07 AM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 22, 2010, 11:39:07 PM
So the mortimers are not the fans favourite is the conclusion judging by the opinions on here but management have selected them so differing views. Looking forward to getting a look at ye on Sunday.
I wouldn't have that opinion about the Mortimers at all. Trevor is a horse of a man
but not as much as Stevie Coppell
Surely Stevie Capall
Steve Capall scores
Thu, 20th Nov, 2008
The Noel Meade trained Steve Capall finished with a strong late run to eventually take the concluding Liscahill Bumper at Thurles today.
The son of Dushyantor looked well held by leaders Cadspeed and Dick Naylor but finished strongly for a length and a quarter win.
Meade later reported "win or lose, the plan was to go hurdling with Steve Capall after today so today was a bonus!"
Steve Capall carries the colours of Galway based Fortysomething Syndicate, which members include one Hector O'hEochagáin.
Never mind all that - John Maughan is back in the Mayo Advertiser:
http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/25328
I don't think Maughan ever forgot Johnno's radio show, you know. Always worth reading between the lines in these things. Ah well - a bit of banter only adds to the crack.
League title there for the taking
MAYO ADVERTISER, APRIL 23, 2010.
Opportunity knocks for Mayo footballers next Sunday in Croker. A victory over Cork in the National League final would be an enormous achievement for this present group of players. On the basis of the compelling evidence of Mayo's victory over the same opposition two weeks ago, I really do think a National League title is imminently achievable. Granted, next Sunday's opposition have been making all the right soundings in their impressive league campaign with a number of good victories to their credit, but Mayo have also enjoyed a terrific league campaign, with six out of seven victories in the campaign. The question is being asked in these quarters, however, were Cork really trying in that last league game in Pairc Uí Chaoimh two weeks ago? As we know, Cork had already qualified for the league final before the last game and, to a certain extent, they had an influence on who they played in the final. To step off the gas and allow Mayo win without too much exertion might just present a handier opportunity to win a league title in Croker. A final against the Dubs in front of a large Dublin crowd just might not have been as easy, they might have been thinking. A few people have suggested to me that once Cork discovered that the Dubs were trouncing Tyrone in the first half in Omagh that same Sunday, their intensity dropped quite noticeably and they ambled through the remainder of the match unconcerned about the result. Nonetheless that was not the situation in the other games played in Division 1 when Mayo ground out impressive results against formidable opposition.
In fact, it's been a terrific league campaign for Mayo with four wonderful away victories against top class opposition. I will be honest here when I suggest that I thought at the start of the campaign Mayo might struggle to retain its division 1 status. But the matches where I thought we would struggle versus Derry, Tyrone, Kerry and Cork were dealt with in a manner that has left most supporters giddy with anticipation. Don't forget Mayo left us with a couple of good days here in Castlebar, too, with impressive victories against the auld enemy up the road and a good win over Monaghan. Any team is capable of having a really bad day and those who were at the Dublin match here in Castlebar will admit that particular match could be categorised as poisonous. In fact both teams were dreadful that day.
So, just how good are Mayo? This league final will benchmark the progress made and it will provide us with a good indication of what we can expect later on this summer. The rebuilding job is now up and running and, for the first time in years, the options are now greater. Over the last couple of years we looked short in the critical games, but that is no longer the situation. This current squad has a plethora of young cubs who have taken to the task of playing at this level as if they were at it for years. The team has youth, pace, buckets of confidence, mighty resilience, and a never say die attitude that just might cause problems for Cork on Sunday.
I have been mightily impressed throughout the league with the positive contributions from some of the younger players. In particular, Donal Vaughan, Kevin McLoughlin, Chris Barrett, Seamus O'Shea, Mark Ronaldson, Enda Varley, and Alan Freeman have all embellished their reputations throughout the league. When you consider that we have lined out in some of our big games without the experienced Peadar Gardiner, Pat Harte, Ronan McGarrity, Alan Dillon and Conor Mortimer, it gives you some indication of the transformation taking place. OK, OK, delivering on the big occasion is not a trait that we have become familiar with yet, but a win on Sunday just might force the pendulum in our direction for once and take us out of purgatory.
Cork are not quite the finished article just yet. Mayo teams in recent years have never feared playing them and, unlike Cork teams of times past, this current squad had its reputation tarnished by its All-Ireland defeat last year. Granted they can look really impressive at times, particularly when given room to express themselves. But, they have conceded nine goals in this year's league and we have proven goal scorers in this Mayo team. The jury is out, but the feeling is good!
Have to fully agree with Ros4life, (what a sentence to have to serve! being a Rossie for life) sorry where was I? ah yes that a Mayo championship team should lose to the likes of Castlerea is indeed a disgrace and I am gratified to see a Roscommon man acknowledge that. However even the weakest counties i.e Roscommon, Carlow, and other bottom feeders occasionly have a giant killing act. So Ros4life (with no remission poor chap) dont run down Castlerea, enjoy their day in the sun. Division 4 next year is it Ros4life. Hope ye dont spend yere life in 4.
Quote from: southsidejohnny on April 23, 2010, 05:32:30 PM
Have to fully agree with Ros4life, (what a sentence to have to serve! being a Rossie for life) sorry where was I? ah yes that a Mayo championship team should lose to the likes of Castlerea is indeed a disgrace and I am gratified to see a Roscommon man acknowledge that. However even the weakest counties i.e Roscommon, Carlow, and other bottom feeders occasionly have a giant killing act. So Ros4life (with no remission poor chap) dont run down Castlerea, enjoy their day in the sun. Division 4 next year is it Ros4life. Hope ye dont spend yere life in 4.
If you trying to insult me dear boy don't give up the day job ;) In my Honest Opinion Club football here is in a all time low & is
one of the Reasons why Roscommon are so poor today, Ger heneghan is the best player they have he scores 90% of what they get & as for your Weakest counties Comments ::) Roscommon are known for there strong football tradition in Club & County (unlike Carlow) & i have Faith we shall Return
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 22, 2010, 09:32:36 PM
Shields on AOS will be a big dual, hopefully Aidan will prove his worth in Croker again
Shields will be out in the half back line and O'Sullivan will go in on AOS. Well, that's if he starts Counihan rarely names the team that actually starts. I'd say Shields will be center back, if he plays full back Counihan won't get out of CP alive.
Quote from: southsidejohnny on April 23, 2010, 05:32:30 PM
Have to fully agree with Ros4life, (what a sentence to have to serve! being a Rossie for life) sorry where was I? ah yes that a Mayo championship team should lose to the likes of Castlerea is indeed a disgrace and I am gratified to see a Roscommon man acknowledge that. However even the weakest counties i.e Roscommon, Carlow, and other bottom feeders occasionly have a giant killing act. So Ros4life (with no remission poor chap) dont run down Castlerea, enjoy their day in the sun. Division 4 next year is it Ros4life. Hope ye dont spend yere life in 4.
::)
It is funny how when someone starts a lie, many people start to believe it. :-\
The Mayo champions did NOT lose to Castlerea. The beat them! The order of the western world did not change ;)
Quote from: western exile on April 23, 2010, 07:31:47 PM
Quote from: southsidejohnny on April 23, 2010, 05:32:30 PM
Have to fully agree with Ros4life, (what a sentence to have to serve! being a Rossie for life) sorry where was I? ah yes that a Mayo championship team should lose to the likes of Castlerea is indeed a disgrace and I am gratified to see a Roscommon man acknowledge that. However even the weakest counties i.e Roscommon, Carlow, and other bottom feeders occasionly have a giant killing act. So Ros4life (with no remission poor chap) dont run down Castlerea, enjoy their day in the sun. Division 4 next year is it Ros4life. Hope ye dont spend yere life in 4.
::)
It is funny how when someone starts a lie, many people start to believe it. :-\
The Mayo champions did NOT lose to Castlerea. The beat them! The order of the western world did not change ;)
Joseph Goebbels - "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
Quote from: ballinaman on April 23, 2010, 12:40:08 PM
Cosmo....so defo no chance of TG4 streaming it??
You can give it a shot, but I doubt it. As SLIGONIAN said, you will most likely need to get an Irish IP to get it working. Mind you, that's not impossible...
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 23, 2010, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 23, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
That is the correct team to go with. In fact it was pretty much the only team that could be picked. Some lads have been injured and it would be criminal to drop likes of Chris Barrett. He s been superb and he/we need to know how much more he has. Kerrigan will probably be his duty on Sunday. If it was a 5 v 12 confrontation I'd go with Barrett. 2 v 15 may well be trickier but sure we ll find out, and now is the time to find out. He, and others have also been very patient. As a result we now have a decent looking 20+ players. Next Sunday we ll learn more about starters. There s also 5/6 that come in. The team that will play Sligo is still a work in progress I would think. I doubt it ll be the 15 named there. I expect McGar to start against Sligo. The likes of Harte, Gardiner, Varley and Kilcoyne might have to keep their powder dry and make impacts off the bench. Thats the nature of things. To get to a league final players have been doing well and those players are in on merit. Not like the same team that played v Meath should now just take over again, anyone? If we progress the team will evolve and subs in Croke Pk. and Mark. Park could well be lynchpins later. The Sligo game is massive imo.
As regards the Mortimors. No way will Mayo start without Trevor as long as he has a pulse. Conor is in a bit of a scrap for his place. But I still think this management will go with Mort, Moran and Sé for Champ if all fit.
Spot on Moysider!
Janey, when the pair of us is happy with Johnno and his team, things must be looking up. ;D
But O'Mahony stopped his endless chopping and changing about a long time ago and the results are there to be seen. I feel he is getting close to his preferred 15 at this stage and changes from now on will be minimal. In all my years, I have never seen a team like the one he is presently developing- the style of play and the type of player he seems to be going with break all Mayo stereotypes.
The FB line is the most mobile I have seen to date and if Keith does get back in there, he can only add to the effectiveness of the line. I honestly thought the three of them were going to be eaten alive when I saw them line up against their Cork opponents last game out. The height and weight difference was striking- or so it seemed to me. I don't remember any of them making a clean overhead catch that day but they harried and hassled and blocked down so much that the langers only got one clean shot at Clarkie.
I see no reason at all why Chris Barrett should be dropped at this stage; he got MOTM that day, didn't he? I think all the backs are there on merit and it's up to those in the wings to fight their way back in. IMO, Keith probably will and Peadar probably won't, barring injuries or loss of form of any of the incumbents.
I agree with Tubberman re Parsons. He has undoubted talent but is liable to fade out at times. Still, he has shown what he is capable of and McGar will have a fight on his hands if he is to replace him for the championships.
The HF line is as good as we've got and I don't see any obvious advantage in messing about with the FF boys either. The three lads there got a bit mixed up at times down in Cork but, once again, I can't see any obvious advantage to be gained by dropping or shifting any of them.
I think we're all set to go now with the best we have and I see no reason to be afraid of them hoors from Cork or anybody else.
Time will tell Lar. Time will tell.
Maybe I should try to qualify my earlier post about the selected team. I believe it was the correct team to pick for
this game. I m not sure Johnno has deliberately arrived at this selection or it has just turned out this way because of circumstances? I firmly believe if Aiden Higgins was in the panel he d be playing. Bar injuries I believe Gardiner, Higgins and McGarrity would all be starting on Sunday. Our style of play is largely down to the individuals available. I m sure Johnno wishes he had a defender who could catch a ball above his head. One would have come in handy last year against Meath and may well be needed this year as well. But I digress.
Injuries during the League meant fellas like Barrett, O Malley got extended runs and when O Se joined Parsons in midfield he did well and the half-forward line continued to thrive. It would have been a major blow to squad morale if some of these lads were dropped for the final. The team is evolving naturally. By starting this selection he can call on likes of Ronan, Keith, Peadar, Harty, Killer and Varley to steady the ship if people start calving during the final. That s better than bringing on fellas who were dropped after playing themselves into the final. Anyway I have no doubt that at least Ronan and Keith are in Johnno s 'team in the head' for the championship. I d say he sees this Cork game as probably needing 18-20 players to win it. Whatever happens we will have a better idea of championship team on Sunday evening.
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 23, 2010, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 23, 2010, 12:40:08 PM
Cosmo....so defo no chance of TG4 streaming it??
You can give it a shot, but I doubt it. As SLIGONIAN said, you will most likely need to get an Irish IP to get it working. Mind you, that's not impossible...
While it might not be impossible, it's as close to it as makes no difference.
Maybe Sligonian would come back to us and post the link to the Irish IP address he has found to be reliable.
I doubt very much that it's a proxy server as there doesn't seem to any reliable Irish ones out there. When I read what you and some of the lads in Oz had to say, I took a root around to see what's available and I couldn't find a reliable Irish one. There doesn't seem to be anything there for free but I found some that should do the trick alright but they are not free.
This one seems okay but it costs £9.95 per month.
http://www.irishproxyserver.com/
This one could do the business also but costs $9.95 pm.
http://www.overplay.net/
You talking about VPN servers here and not proxies but I doubt if any one gives a damn if all that's wanted is a video stream from RTE or any other site that only accepts an Irish IP.
If Sligonian comes back with whatever he is using, it might save those who need an Irish IP a load of trouble.
I'm sorry to say the lads in Australia are feckd for this one. I was in the same position for Mayo V Meath last year, Setanta Ireland where showing the Charity Sheild (a f**king disgrace of the highest order), whatever about the merits of a competitive fixture in another sport, but a bloody glorifed challenge match.
Quote from: hardstation on April 23, 2010, 11:15:39 PM
Over the 2 days, I'll be supporting:
Port Láirge
Aontroim
Árd Macha
Maigh Eo
I am curious... In the Ulster derby game, what influenced your choice?
Quote from: hardstation on April 23, 2010, 11:23:19 PM
Down is a horrible county and couldn't get enough beatings slapped into them imo.
that is what I suspected ;)
so not for the love of Armagh then ;D
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 23, 2010, 10:37:13 PM
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
O'mahony at heart is still a teacher and the players are little boys and he doent trust them one bit . how can any real on field leadership develop when as soon as a bit of indivuality is shown they are off the team.
Mcdonald being the obvious one but connor Mortimer and parsons have suffered as wellabd I suspect aiden campbell is paying the Price as well . his Fear of any bit of hype is another manifestation of his refusal to Trust the players and thinks they will go to jelly at the sign of a reporter or cameraman.
That said Mayo should win despite him sunday with the biggest danger to mayo coming down the middle of the cork attack but i fancy may will go for a shoot out and with AOS back playing well i think mayo will have the ammoo to outgun Cork
MAyo 2:17 Cork 1:15
Quote from: rosnarun on April 23, 2010, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 23, 2010, 10:37:13 PM
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
O'mahony at heart is still a teacher and the players are little boys and he doent trust them one bit . how can any real on field leadership develop when as soon as a bit of indivuality is shown they are off the team.
Mcdonald being the obvious one but connor Mortimer and parsons have suffered as wellabd I suspect aiden campbell is paying the Price as well . his Fear of any bit of hype is another manifestation of his refusal to Trust the players and thinks they will go to jelly at the sign of a reporter or cameraman.
That said Mayo should win despite him sunday with the biggest danger to mayo coming down the middle of the cork attack but i fancy may will go for a shoot out and with AOS back playing well i think mayo will have the ammoo to outgun Cork
MAyo 2:17 Cork 1:15
You forgot to mention that he is also a blueshirt ros - you're slipping... :P
Here is how their scoring difference finished up during the league
Team P W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Mayo 7 6 0 1 9-86 5-78 20 12
3 Cork 7 5 0 2 9-93 9-86 7 10
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 23, 2010, 10:37:13 PM
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
did sean og really say that Iolar ??? calling players he played against Prima donnas and accussing them of not getting stuck in, if he did and we don't need to be a genius to guess who is is talking about the galway boys were glad to see the back of him on the football field . Anyway enough about sean og its going to a be tough game tomorrow but mayo to win by 2
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 23, 2010, 10:40:27 PM
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 23, 2010, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 23, 2010, 12:40:08 PM
Cosmo....so defo no chance of TG4 streaming it??
You can give it a shot, but I doubt it. As SLIGONIAN said, you will most likely need to get an Irish IP to get it working. Mind you, that's not impossible...
While it might not be impossible, it's as close to it as makes no difference.
Maybe Sligonian would come back to us and post the link to the Irish IP address he has found to be reliable.
I doubt very much that it's a proxy server as there doesn't seem to any reliable Irish ones out there. When I read what you and some of the lads in Oz had to say, I took a root around to see what's available and I couldn't find a reliable Irish one. There doesn't seem to be anything there for free but I found some that should do the trick alright but they are not free.
This one seems okay but it costs £9.95 per month.
http://www.irishproxyserver.com/
This one could do the business also but costs $9.95 pm.
http://www.overplay.net/
You talking about VPN servers here and not proxies but I doubt if any one gives a damn if all that's wanted is a video stream from RTE or any other site that only accepts an Irish IP.
If Sligonian comes back with whatever he is using, it might save those who need an Irish IP a load of trouble.
Sound for the effort Lar, will just have to go old school and listen to midwest for it and get the dvd posted, will pay the money when the championship comes around though.
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 24, 2010, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 23, 2010, 10:37:13 PM
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
did sean og really say that Iolar ??? calling players he played against Prima donnas and accussing them of not getting stuck in, if he did and we don't need to be a genius to guess who is is talking about the galway boys were glad to see the back of him on the football field . Anyway enough about sean og its going to a be tough game tomorrow but mayo to win by 2
The word Seán Óg used was "réalt," which translates as star, but it means more star in the sky than star as in celebrity. There's no real equivalent to "celebrity" in Irish, because we were too busy starving in ditches to worry about who was wearing what shoes when the language was still spoken here. Prima donna is the nearest I can come to the meaning of what he was trying to get across.
Like I was saying in the post, I do think it's hard on many Mayo teams that have gone before. Mayo haven't faded as they used to - and by God they used to - since Maughan's first stint in the mid-nineties. I'm getting a bad feeling about tomorrow now, but I paused to think when I read a sentence in Keith Duggan's interview with T-Mort in the Irish Times this morning: "he has that Mayo habit of turning morose when he talks about football."
Huge level of insight into the Mayo psychology in that quote. Huge.
Mayo are hard beaten and they only lost to Dublin because they had a horrible amount of wides. Still, I'd give anything to give a big f**k yo to all the pundits who have consistently put us down this year. God knows, I've done it myself a few times so I'd gladly take one as well.
Mayo by 2.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 24, 2010, 12:43:17 PM
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 24, 2010, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 23, 2010, 10:37:13 PM
They had an interesting chat about the game on Seo Spóirt on TG4 tonight. Seán Óg de Paor was a guest - Seán Óg bigged Johnno up a lot in his book and he was at it again tonight. He reckons O'Mahony hates stars - "prima donnas" doesn't really translate into Gaeilge but I'd say that's what he meant.
As for as Seán Óg is concerned, the team is the thing for Johnno, and he has now built a team in Mayo where everyone pulls their weight, as opposed to fellas either leaving it to the star or the star being too grand to get down in the muck. Seán Óg reckoned Mayo will do it.
Seán Bán Breathnach, on the other hand, isn't buying it. Seán Bán said the same thing David Brady said on Newstalk last night, that Mayo have not resolved their issues with high balls inside and we'll be seeing any God's amount of them on Sunday. Seán Bán reckoned Cork by two.
For what it's worth, I reckon Seán Óg was a bit unfair to Mayo teams of the past. The team that was 1-3 to 0-0 down after ten minutes to Galway in 2004 didn't come back to win that game by sitting on their holes and filing their nails.
I fancied Cork at the start of the week, then Mayo when I saw the big Cork names missing, and now I'm damned if I know how it's going to turn out. But whatever does happen, Moysider is right - we'll know a lot more about the Championship team than we do now at half-five on Sunday.
did sean og really say that Iolar ??? calling players he played against Prima donnas and accussing them of not getting stuck in, if he did and we don't need to be a genius to guess who is is talking about the galway boys were glad to see the back of him on the football field . Anyway enough about sean og its going to a be tough game tomorrow but mayo to win by 2
The word Seán Óg used was "réalt," which translates as star, but it means more star in the sky than star as in celebrity. There's no real equivalent to "celebrity" in Irish, because we were too busy starving in ditches to worry about who was wearing what shoes when the language was still spoken here. Prima donna is the nearest I can come to the meaning of what he was trying to get across.
Like I was saying in the post, I do think it's hard on many Mayo teams that have gone before. Mayo haven't faded as they used to - and by God they used to - since Maughan's first stint in the mid-nineties. I'm getting a bad feeling about tomorrow now, but I paused to think when I read a sentence in Keith Duggan's interview with T-Mort in the Irish Times this morning: "he has that Mayo habit of turning morose when he talks about football."
Huge level of insight into the Mayo psychology in that quote. Huge.
The thing is, if some wheels come off tomorrow there may be still time to fix things before the important stuff starts in Sligo. We re lucky to have another, as close as championship type, game tomorrow to examine where we are. Our backs in particular, and while our midfield are hugely talented we need to see them play and sledge it out for the game. Because anything that will come off tomorrow would have come off later in the year anyway. Many other years we went into the summer with flawed teams after comfortable springs. If we win it brilliant.
A lot has been talked about both these teams looking forward to a good game of Football
have a feeling Mayo will nick it by 2pts, Player to Watch Mark Ronaldson
a late chamge of events mean i can now get to the game.
Anyone know where the gaa ticket stalls are located around croker?
Quote from: Ranger on April 24, 2010, 10:13:43 PM
a late chamge of events mean i can now get to the game.
Anyone know where the gaa ticket stalls are located around croker?
There is one up near Quinns anyway, most are near the road blocks.
I hear Mark Ronaldson failed a late fitness test. Id expect the Killer to be deployed which in my eyes will be a boost.
I expect Kilcoyne to be the player to watch.
Today will be a huge test for Howley marking the 6ft 3" Donncha O'Connor. I reckon he has his work cut out big-time and we will see if he is worth his salt.
Our full backline is a big problem. Cafferkey is not a good fielder of the ball and is more used to the corner. Liam O Malley never had a good day on a big occasion. Im hoping foe the best with Chris Barrett who may lack some experience and is being thrown in the deep-end a bit.
Cork could sneak 2-3 goals with our full backline. Mayo forwards will need to clock up a big scoreline to counter it.
Mayo to sneak it by 2 in the end (I hoping)
That's disappointing for Ronnie he has been brilliant in the league but maybe the Killer might be a good man to have in - get game time, a freetaker and more physical presence.
Just about to hit the road now. Can't wait for this one. A bit of silverware in April would be a great pick-up and set up a very tasty game with Sligo come June.
Come on lads!!!
Good luck to Mayo today. Always like to see the west awake.
Togha scríbhneoireachta ón gCinnéideach san Examiner inné:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfkfidauidsn/rss2/
Why Mayo hate being liked
By Dara Ó Cinnéide
Saturday, April 24, 2010
A COLLEAGUE of mine who has graduated in such matters has often been heard to utter the phrase "ní hionainn dul go dtí tigh an rí agus teacht as" — going to the king's house and coming out of it is not the same thing.
So it is with the National League football finals and finalists in recent years. Donegal in 2007, Derry in 2008 and even Kerry in 2009 found that getting to a league final and winning it can become the catalyst for a cycle of poor form which is very hard to arrest for the start of championship. Whether consciously or otherwise, teams that have won the last three league titles have emerged lethargic and leaden-footed on the other side.
Little wonder then, that John O'Mahony might have been reluctant during the week to oblige the sponsors and talk up tomorrow's wrap to what has been an annual diminuendo at the end of each recent spring campaign.
O'Mahony is a peculiar and intriguing manager. At once an iconoclast and a throwback, he represents the best of traditional Mayo football in his idealistic approach to the game, yet he has quite justifiably spent the last year or so railing against slights and platitudes about his players' make-up as footballers.
It's easy for more decorated counties to like Mayo football and Mayo footballers. Since their re-emergence during O'Mahony's first term in charge over 20 years ago, we have tended to view them with the same benign affection we afforded some of the great Irish bands of that era — many of whom blossomed spectacularly before eventually disappearing in obscurity again. Mayo are the Into Paradise, the Power of Dreams and the Whipping Boy of the GAA world. That they never emulated the U2s of this world somehow made them more enduringly popular and more palatable to us than Bono and the boys could ever wish to be.
This has particular resonance for Munster GAA people. When Cork weren't beating Mayo in the All-Ireland final in 1989, walloping them in the 1993 semi-final and beating them once again in the 1999 semi-final, it was Kerry's turn to colonise their memories in the 1997, 2004, and 2006 finals.
Out of caution and respect (and a genuine belief that the wheel eventually will turn) you're very unlikely to hear any Cork or Kerry fan diss Mayo but when pressed, supporters in both counties will acknowledge that Mayo have been one of their favourite teams to play in Croke Park.
O'Mahony will know this too and while his current group of players shouldn't be unduly burdened by the past, they are reported to be working very hard with team psychologist Gerry Hussey lately on breaking the cycle of defeat and changing the public perception of themselves as a team.
There's a sense since early February that Mayo are indeed changing by unseen degrees. Watching from the terrace during their comprehensive defeat of Kerry in Austin Stack Park last month it was quite apparent that there was a steelier element to Mayo's game that hadn't been evident in quite some time.
One sketch in particular illuminates the central truth of people's perceptions of Mayo football — after a minor incident between Andy Moran and Kerry wing back Adrian O'Connell, young Mayo defender Donal Vaughan (one of Mayo's best performers this year) engaged in the darker arts of off the ball play and got away with it. Vaughan's antics didn't go unnoticed on the terrace but far from being enraged, the Kerry supporters were almost in state of disbelief that a Mayo player would behave in such a manner.
I imagine O'Mahony was privately pleased to see such audacity and black-heartedness from one of his players and it certainly wasn't a one-off. There have been countless other such showings throughout the league.
Should Mayo win tomorrow's Division One final, should they gather momentum throughout the summer and dare we say it — should 2010 eventually become The Year for their supporters — one wonders would we like them as much?
We all rejoiced when the Clare hurling team made their breakthrough a decade and a half ago. We didn't like it so much however, when they started to project that sense of entitlement that comes with believing you're as good as anyone else. Likewise when Armagh broke through the glass ceiling in 2002, the GAA community were quick to embrace them but after five seasons playing hard and aggressive and apologising to nobody, there were very few tears shed outside the Orchard when their powers began to wane in 2006. Come to think of it, Tyrone too, were a lot easier to like before they gate-crashed the party in 2003.!
Only a suspicion that there is a sting in their tail has stifled any morose delectation at their current predicament but there is sure to be an outbreak of tall poppy syndrome if Tyrone's league woes continue into championship 2010.
Strangely, as we wait for the bonfire to take a good hold and as his team prepare for their first visit of 2010 to Croke Park, the challenge for O'Mahony and his Mayo team is to become as resented as every serious team has been since O'Mahony himself led a Galway team of enduring popularity to glory in 2001. With the memory of their last league final trip to Croke Park in 2007 still sticking in the gut, Mayo people will be acutely aware of the need to carry positive thoughts out of this latest visit to the big house.
Fellow visitors this weekend, Sligo, await in a championship opener six weeks hence and the importance of Mayo winning a first league title since that landmark year of 2001 won't be lost on O'Mahony either.
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, April 24, 2010
Can't make the game today - in London. Anybody know where I can catch the match close-ish to Clapham? Would prefer not to have to go intp the city...........
Big test today, hoping for a good performance, a win would be a bonus
the alexander in clapham common normally show it
anyone know where to watch it online - in london and cant get access to rte live
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on April 25, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
the alexander in clapham common normally show it
anyone know where to watch it online - in london and cant get access to rte live
It's on TG4, not RTE.
It's supposed to be showing on Sky 433
yeah its on Sky 433 -
lads watching on TG4 via setanta-I. Who the feck is the commentator, sounds like hes gonna wet himself everytime SOMEONE gets the ball, jaysus. Also, very noticeable that everytime Cork turn over possession, the amount of players they are funnelling back behind the back is sometimes in double digits!. Now if that was someone else................. ::)
I thought Tyrone were relegated? How did they make the League final?
Cork appear to have Mayos number here and should be a lot further than 3 ahead, their long range point taking is exceptional.
The potential of this Cork team is limitless.
Paddy Kelly is a class act, Paul Kerrigan is a goal machine while Donnacha O'Connor is maturing into one of the best players in the country.
Michael Shiels is becoming a great full back .. now if they counld only avoid Kerry :-)
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 25, 2010, 04:37:35 PM
Cork appear to have Mayos number here and should be a lot further than 3 ahead, their long range point taking is exceptional.
???????????? Mayo have missed a zillion chances and Cork have kicked only ONE wide in the first half? What match are u watching?
That's what I mean, Mayo seem to be retreating back to their wasteful ways while Cork are really clinical, Cork appear to be able to score at will.
Fair enough Omagh , CorkTYRONE are playing well all right! ;D
Scores lads?
10 - 7 to Cork
Plenty of effort so far from both teams, however that ref is having a nightmare.
Inconsistent to both sides, favouring mayo quite obviously - maybe it's the benefit going to the smaller man yet again- if cork lose this ( while not looking fully fit yet and not playing well by their own standards) I'd be very annoyed with the ref for his bad officiation!
Cork will not lose this.
Scores are too difficult to come by for Mayo as per usual.
Cork seem to be playing in 3rd gear
13 - 7
Cork pulling ahead Mayo need scores quick or game over
16 - 9 that was some hit by O Malley didn't see a yellow card in it!
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 25, 2010, 05:22:32 PM
16 - 9 that was some hit by O Malley didn't see a yellow card in it!
Shoulder into the chest!!! Didn't see a yellow in it! Come on
1-17 to 0-9 now
Just goes to show what a joke the previous league result was.
Well judging by this Game Cork look a serious outfit while Sligo will fancy there chances when they play that Mayo Team
Cork are certainly an impressive outfit alright and worthy favs for Sam this year. Won this at their leisure really while missing players like Canty, Lynch, Murphy, O'Neill, Miskella, Cadogan, etc.
Mayo fill the trunks once again in Croker :o
Parsons ???
Howley ???
Mayo will be there or there abouts come quarter finals. But thats it
Cork are the form team over the last 3 years and surely they will lift Sam soon
Soon? I'll guarantee you they'll win it this September. They are at least 4 or 5 points better than anything else in the country and will do what they did today to a good few teams this year.
From a Mayo point of view I'd actually be kind of happy. Their backs played very well despite the score and many of them broke even or better with their men. However, Howley was poor and if Parsons is a talented as the Mayo posters claim he hides it very well, I've hardly ever seen him play well. Aidan O'Shea and Dillion were they only forwards who looked like they can regularly deliver at this level but even then I'd say O'Shea is simply a target man and not a scorer, too ponderous. C.Mort got a few scores but is no 'go to man' and his bother is limited.
In saying that, one of the major differences in today's game was that Cork got men back when Mayo attacked and therefore when attackers stepped inside they were met with another Cork man. At the other end, Cork attackers often had time and space once they beat the first man and consequently got some decent scores. Man to man teh Mayo backs did well but they couldn't seem to get support players back to make it more difficult.
What an awful spectacle that was. One-sided game, empty stadium bar the Belmullet U=14's on tour and a handfull of other hardy souls.
The GAA need to have a look at the league format badly. Do we really need a league final?
Side issue here but the acceptance speaches of both the captain and man of the match were appaling. The captain started trying to praise referees but seemed to get completely mixed up and allowed his thoughts to fade away into incoherent babble. The man of the match was asked about the atmosphere in the ground and proceeded to say the same thing twice before grinning into the camera. I know people will say sure what does it matter it's about the football but in fairness could it be that hard to reherse a few lines!!
The league finals are a complete waste of time, despite the other 3 being very good and the leagues need a major overhaul but as long as people peddle the usual bullshit about the provincial championships we have little room to work with.
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2010, 06:07:41 PM
Soon? I'll guarantee you they'll win it this September. They are at least 4 or 5 points better than anything else in the country and will do what they did today to a good few teams this year.
From a Mayo point of view I'd actually be kind of happy. Their backs played very well despite the score and many of them broke even or better with their men. However, Howley was poor and if Parsons is a talented as the Mayo posters claim he hides it very well, I've hardly ever seen him play well. Aidan O'Shea and Dillion were they only forwards who looked like they can regularly deliver at this level but even then I'd say O'Shea is simply a target man and not a scorer, too ponderous. C.Mort got a few scores but is no 'go to man' and his bother is limited.
In saying that, one of the major differences in today's game was that Cork got men back when Mayo attacked and therefore when attackers stepped inside they were met with another Cork man. At the other end, Cork attackers often had time and space once they beat the first man and consequently got some decent scores. Man to man teh Mayo backs did well but they couldn't seem to get support players back to make it more difficult.
Zulu in general I'd agree. But you said the same thing last year and they imploded. kerry remain the one team that can beat them and until Cork beat Kerry in CP the rest of the country won't believe. If Cork win one they'll win 3 in my view . But they could just as easy win none.
I'd still worry about their full back line. Its the one line on the Cork team that isn't rock solid. Everything else is perfect.
I think they lost last year because of Counihan's selection policy but the thing about this year is Cork are even better while Kerry are weaker. I do agree, they only reason I'm not selling my house and putting it all on Cork to win is because of Kerry. But I'd still be shocked if Cork don't do it this year, they are 4 to 5 points better than they were last year and Kerry must be 3 to 4 worse off.
Cork to win Munster & Kerry to win the All ireland beating Cork in the final! what a shocker that would be ::)
Cork look awesome today . If you think that they are missing at least five first choice players and they won pulling up . I think they really have a strong panel now and will be able to add to it and improve it as the year goes on . Tyrone with a fully fit Sean Cavanagh will be the only thing to stop them I fear.
Quote from: Tomorrow is another day on April 25, 2010, 05:37:38 PM
Mayo will be there or there abouts come quarter finals. But thats it
Cork are the form team over the last 3 years and surely they will lift Sam soon
Mayo being in the Quarter Finals will happen because Connacht Football is low enough at the moment.
I wouldn't be getting carried away by Sligo's result last night, and then assume it means that they will beat Mayo. Sligo were in the Division 3 Final, playing against another team of Division 3 standard.
Mayo have to day been beaten by the best team in the country at the moment, and have been operating at a much higher level throughout the league.
Up to now, i had Mayo among a group of 3 or 4 teams who could be in with a shout of Sam this year. But after that today, they're off my list. The paralysis that grips Mayo teams in Croke Park was there again for all to see, and i think it's fair to say that they never ever looked likely to win the game.
I'm sure the Mayo lads on here will analyse individual performances etc in greater depth, but as a neutral, i didn't see many positives for Mayo out there today. 1-17 was a pretty hefty score to concede, and i'd say John O'Mahony has gone home this evening with more questions than answers.
I thought their defence did quite well, McGarrity improved their midfield, even if he isn't a top level midfielder himself and Varley and Kilcoyne will improve their forward line. All in all I think they are as good as most teams but as I've been saying for some time now they lack enough really good IC players, especially forwards.
Quote from: Shrewdness on April 25, 2010, 06:56:42 PM
Quote from: Tomorrow is another day on April 25, 2010, 05:37:38 PM
Mayo will be there or there abouts come quarter finals. But thats it
Cork are the form team over the last 3 years and surely they will lift Sam soon
Mayo being in the Quarter Finals will happen because Connacht Football is low enough at the moment.
I wouldn't be getting carried away by Sligo's result last night, and then assume it means that they will beat Mayo. Sligo were in the Division 3 Final, playing against another team of Division 3 standard.
Mayo have to day been beaten by the best team in the country at the moment, and have been operating at a much higher level throughout the league.
Up to now, i had Mayo among a group of 3 or 4 teams who could be in with a shout of Sam this year. But after that today, they're off my list. The paralysis that grips Mayo teams in Croke Park was there again for all to see, and i think it's fair to say that they never ever looked likely to win the game.
I'm sure the Mayo lads on here will analyse individual performances etc in greater depth, but as a neutral, i didn't see many positives for Mayo out there today. 1-17 was a pretty hefty score to concede, and i'd say John O'Mahony has gone home this evening with more questions than answers.
And he'll be better off because of it. Mayo won't play anyone in Cork's class and they will learn a lot today and be better for it. People writing them off because they lost to the best team in the country is ridiculous.
Mayo's 2 positives today were Chris Barrett and Kevin Mcloughlin......
Trevor Howley is not a centre half-back. We need someone there who can direct the play. He wasn't good today at all.
Parsons is very talented but very yellow. He should have been storming through for that chance in the first-half rather than slowing up. He'd want a kick up the hole.
Seamie O'Shea will start with McGarrity.
Andy Moran was too deep. Absolutely no use in him and trev both being back there. Get someone in at no. 6 who can spray the ball. Howley can't do it. Leave the half-forwards where they were or else only bring one back and no further back than midfield. They were putting poor ball into full-forward line. C Mort and M Ronaldson were too light and small to win ball and Aidan O'Shea is way too slow. By the time he gets it he is surrounded.
Trevor Mort was appalling sadly. No one can defend him after that and don't mention work-rate etc. He is NOT good enough to be a forward for Mayo. Unless he can re-invent himself as a half-back he is in trouble. His basic skills such as kicking are non-existent. It is atrocious that our captain can't take a score from 25 yards. He was great in 2004 but i'm afraid he has never reached them peaks since.
You could tell Alan Dillon has all the skills and the touches but he has to cut out a lot of the half-arsed shimmies he does and start running a bit more direct at his man. He always does the same shimmy and turns backwards with it. BE MORE DIRECT. He is like a bloody arsenal midfielder, all nice flicks and passes but no directness or scores for that matter.
I don't actually think our backs were that bad today. Dont get me wrong i'm not saying they were great but that scoreline isn't down to the backs. Chris Barrett was my man of the match. Kevin McLoughlin was our shining light in the first half. He did very well.
I think our forwards lacked shape, a leader, a mobile target man and pace.
Barry Moran running on to replace Aidan O' Shea at the end showed more pace than Aidan did all day.
He should start and i would consider putting Aidan O'Shea to no.11 or to the bench. At no.11 he will have a better chance to build up some speed and we know he can take a score. At no.14 he is too slow to react and beat his man. He doesn't seem like an intelligent full forward either. In fact our forwards didn't play at all like a unit.
My revised team for championship after today:
D Clarke
C Barrett G Cafferkey T Howley
P Gardiner K Higgins K McLoughlin
R McGarrity S O Shea
A Moran A O'Shea A Dillon
A Kilcoyne B Moran E Varley
Harsh on D Vaughan but Gardiner offers us a little more experience there. D Vaughan could possibly shift to no. 7 and K McLoughlin might be considered as a no.10
Bar Aidan O'Shea we had no height in forwards. Compare that to the Cork 6 whose smallest man Paul Kerrigan was still a few inches above C Barrett. They can all move too.
Sorry now foreverhopeful, but that team shows a worrying lack of insight. Keith Higgins at center back, not a chance you may as well have no one there. You are right about O'Shea and his speed of thought and action yet you put him in center forward, where you need an abundance of both. And Barry Moran at FF will simply not work as he isn't up to it.
I'd have to disagree with your evaluation of Aidan O'Shea today. While he didn't use the ball he got very well, he was at least winning his fair share and I would leave him in the FF but tell him to lay it off immediately to supporting players. Pat Harte at center forward is another option I'd look at but where to put Parsons is the dilemma, you lads claim he has it but I haven't seen it, maybe a roaming CF?
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 25, 2010, 07:27:41 PM
Mayo's 2 positives today were Chris Barrett and Kevin Mcloughlin......
Trevor Howley is not a centre half-back. We need someone there who can direct the play. He wasn't good today at all.
Parsons is very talented but very yellow. He should have been storming through for that chance in the first-half rather than slowing up. He'd want a kick up the hole.
Seamie O'Shea will start with McGarrity.
Andy Moran was too deep. Absolutely no use in him and trev both being back there. Get someone in at no. 6 who can spray the ball. Howley can't do it. Leave the half-forwards where they were or else only bring one back and no further back than midfield. They were putting poor ball into full-forward line. C Mort and M Ronaldson were too light and small to win ball and Aidan O'Shea is way too slow. By the time he gets it he is surrounded.
Trevor Mort was appalling sadly. No one can defend him after that and don't mention work-rate etc. He is NOT good enough to be a forward for Mayo. Unless he can re-invent himself as a half-back he is in trouble. His basic skills such as kicking are non-existent. It is atrocious that our captain can't take a score from 25 yards. He was great in 2004 but i'm afraid he has never reached them peaks since.
You could tell Alan Dillon has all the skills and the touches but he has to cut out a lot of the half-arsed shimmies he does and start running a bit more direct at his man. He always does the same shimmy and turns backwards with it. BE MORE DIRECT. He is like a bloody arsenal midfielder, all nice flicks and passes but no directness or scores for that matter.
I don't actually think our backs were that bad today. Dont get me wrong i'm not saying they were great but that scoreline isn't down to the backs. Chris Barrett was my man of the match. Kevin McLoughlin was our shining light in the first half. He did very well.
I think our forwards lacked shape, a leader, a mobile target man and pace.
Barry Moran running on to replace Aidan O' Shea at the end showed more pace than Aidan did all day.
He should start and i would consider putting Aidan O'Shea to no.11 or to the bench. At no.11 he will have a better chance to build up some speed and we know he can take a score. At no.14 he is too slow to react and beat his man. He doesn't seem like an intelligent full forward either. In fact our forwards didn't play at all like a unit.
My revised team for championship after today:
D Clarke
C Barrett G Cafferkey T Howley
P Gardiner K Higgins K McLoughlin
R McGarrity S O Shea
A Moran A O'Shea A Dillon
A Kilcoyne B Moran E Varley
Harsh on D Vaughan but Gardiner offers us a little more experience there. D Vaughan could possibly shift to no. 7 and K McLoughlin might be considered as a no.10
Bar Aidan O'Shea we had no height in forwards. Compare that to the Cork 6 whose smallest man Paul Kerrigan was still a few inches above C Barrett. They can all move too.
This was the excellent analysis i was expecting from the Mayo lads on here, because in fairness to ye, everything about Mayo football gets a good airing on here. It's hard to quantify how much an All Ireland would mean to Mayo. I'm a Rossie living in Mayo, but travel back to Ros each day for work, so am well placed to experience the sheer passion Mayo people have for the Senior team.
After watching that today, i now have serious doubts if there is an All Ireland in that team . Yes, they are still in the top 5 counties, but taking that next step is huge. I felt that physically Cork were bigger than Mayo in nearly every position.
They're still my favourites for the Connacht Title, but after that, i'd be nervous about having money on them, but i suppose time will tell.
Not that it would have made a difference to the result but did anyone else find that ref to be brutal? He was so inconsistent it made me feel like punching the wall. The GAA have to have better refs out there than that man.
Very impressive by the Cork giants.
They are in even better shape than this time last year.
You'd have to feel some sympathy for Mayo, at least they seen the bar (standard they need to reach) at close hand, albeit looking way upwards.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 25, 2010, 07:45:58 PM
Not that it would have made a difference to the result but did anyone else find that ref to be brutal? He was so inconsistent it made me feel like punching the wall. The GAA have to have better refs out there than that man.
I've seen this from him before at the 2006 Minor Final replay in Ennis when Ros beat Kerry. In the first half that day, he gave everything to Kerry. Then in the second half, if a Kerry player even farted, he gave Ros some grand handy frees, for which we are still eternally grateful ;D
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
Micko was talking shit. The leagues should be a center piece of our year and it could be easily done if we had some balls.
Is it time to consider taking the league finals out of Croke Park, as unpopular as that would be.?
Croke Park seemed eery today with all those empty seats. Imagine bringing any overseas visitors to Croke Park today, and try telling them that today's games were the two finals of the second most important inter county competition.
That's been done already. It's time to make them important, it is nothing short of a disgrace that most IC players play 7-12 glorified challenge games each year and 1-3 competitive games and even some of those can be iffy.
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
Give Dublin a bye into the final every year and let the rest fight it out for the other final spot, thereby ensuring a full house, no effort on the part of the GAA to market the fixture and a fistful of euros !!! Easy !
A worrying lack of insight????? Are you having a laugh Zulu.. Aidan O'Shea while only around since last year was up against a complete novice full back.. He can win ball but he simply cant move quick enough to do any damage. He might do well against your the second and third tier teams but today it showed that he is not fit for no.14 against the top opposition. And Cork's full back line was their weakest link...
We need a no. 6 who can play ball. Keith Higgins can do that. He is the best Mayo defender to deal with the best no.11 in the game - Declan O'Sullivan. He would have done a far better job on Donncha O'Connor today. it was like shooting practice at times for him. Howley is teak tough but i'm starting to think he's a great club player rather than a county player (at no. 6 anyway) Its amazing that he isn't even the Knockmore no. 6. He plays wing back/wing forward for them. I thought he was great at no. 10 for them last year and he may suit that role for Mayo. They were playing Andy moran in that brian dooher role but i'm not convinced. I think he was doing better at the start of the league when he was playing more in the half forward line and he was contributing to the scoreboard.
Alan Dillon may be better at no.12 because i think he gets more scores for us in this position rather than at no.11 where he tends to overplay the playmaker role. He is a classy footballer but we need him to be getting scores on the board rather than displaying his flashy touches and shimmies with no end product. I know lads will think i'm being harsh on one of best footballers but i think he does his best work cutting in from left-half and popping over with his right.
Regarding Tom Parsons i think he will be a fine Mayo player but i think he will have to toughen up a lot. I just get the impression that he doesnt want to mix it in the middle. If pearse o'neill had got the ball Parsons had in the first half (incidentally it was prob a foul, not that the ref would give Mayo anything - i thought he was shocking biased towards Cork) it would prob have ended up in the net. Parsons lacks that drive unfortunately. He might also want to get rid of his black underarm gear. Doesn't look to good for your midfielder when they wearing them. He wouldn't be getting cold if he was running more!
Barry moran if fully fit is up for it....
Mayo need more direct half-forwards. May have to push Kevin McLoughlin up there. He was the only Mayo player capable of taking on a Cork player, only player who could lay off a pass to another player whilst taking a hit. The only problem for him was that he had to come from left-side so couldnt shoot on the run. If he was coming from no. 10 he's prob have scored 3/4 points for Mayo
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
QuoteA worrying lack of insight????? Are you having a laugh Zulu.. Aidan O'Shea while only around since last year was up against a complete novice full back.. He can win ball but he simply cant move quick enough to do any damage. He might do well against your the second and third tier teams but today it showed that he is not fit for no.14 against the top opposition. And Cork's full back line was their weakest link...
No I'm not having a laugh, I agree with what you said about O'Shea's speed but you don't put a man lacking speed of movement and thought out center forward, that's madness. Keith Higgins is a decent attacking defender but you'd have a hole as wide as the grand canyon if he was your center back, and nobody would be afraid to carry it down the middle when he was around. I've seen a good bit of Barry at Sigerson level and I can assure you he is not the solution to your problems, lovely lad but not up to it.
That was another tough day in Croke Park. I had hoped that the ghosts of that awful display against Meath last year would be put to rest but it was obvious from the throw-in that we were on for a hiding. Players that played well all through the league looked like they never kicked a ball before togging out today and there was no leadership being shown by the older lads. Kevin McLoughlin was the only Mayo player who seemed to be tuned into the game. We need men who will make the opposition realise that they are in a game and not beat ourselves before a ball is kicked.
Well done to Cork. Fully deserved as they have been the best team throughout the league.
Pity they threw their last game. They still would have won today but at least we would have had an occasion.
i was away the weekend of the Cork v Mayo last league game what happened? i know mayo won but threw the game??
if you remember o'shea when he was a minor he played at no. 11. Difference for him out there is that he gets a little more space from is defender. He can build up his speed over a greater difference. At full forward you need a quicker burst which Aidan O'Shea doesn't have. Also he seems obsessed with trying to bulldozing his way through 3 men when the ball should already have been laid off. Barry Moran would have an adv. because he is quicker off the mark and he looks to pass it off. It was like aidan o'shea was playing a rugby match today with the way he tried to run through players. It was pathetic to watch as a football fan. Was sitting beside neutrals at the game and they were dismayed by O'Shea. He simply does not look to bring other players into the game. It doesnt help that Dillon or Andy are not making runs supporting full-forward line. They were too far from full forward line and once the lads inside got it they were bundled up and all the pace of an attack is wasted.
Who would you play no. 6 Zulu. I think if he has Seamie O'Shea in front of him he would be well protected. He can play a good pass and no one could catch him if he took off. Seamie O'Shea could drop back into the space if Keith was gone forward. However i wouldnt be advocating Keith spending his time going forward. I think it could work. Certainly Howley's number as a 6 is up.
I thought Cafferkey did good today. He did get caught with one or two high balls. He would however be a much better option in the corner.
Quote from: Hound on April 25, 2010, 09:11:57 PM
Well done to Cork. Fully deserved as they have been the best team throughout the league.
Pity they threw their last game. They still would have won today but at least we would have had an occasion.
Cheap shot.
As for the game.
Mayo had huge failures at 6, 8, 9, 10 & 12. and the rest were only ok. Personally I was very disappointed at the lack of action from the sideline to deal with Donncha O'Connor. The problem was obvious after 10 minutes yet nothing was done or even attempted. The 4 point difference at half time was largely down to O'Connor and still no change after ht.
The only positives were the expected collapse of the full back line didn't happen despite O'Connor pulling all the strings, McLoughlin was excellent Alan Dillon did what he usually does and the FF line wasn't too bad. In terms of winning big games though we need a lot more than that. We also learned, what most of us knew, that McG + Parsons is not a credible partnership.
There is NO way andy moran and trev can both feature in a half-forward line. We need ALL our forwards scoring. Andy can but not when he's brought back into half-back line. We may as well have switched him and Mcloughlin. Andy isn't going to play that Dooher role. He just ends up out of the game.
Aidan O'Shea drew 5 soft frees in Cork which most other refs wouldn't give. He was at the same crack today and it didn't work. Even going back to minor his refusal to lay off the ball has cost us dearly. Enough of a rant on Aidan he did his best. Hopefully we will learn alot from today. We never seem to learn anything from the games we win, or loose by a tight margin, hence the necessary changes have not being made. I was well impressed with Chris Barrett in both the games against Cork, it's more of him we need.
I know there is alot of pessimism out there tonight, but hopefully lessons will be learned by thoses who need them most.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
Lets cut to the chase.
We have 3 professional rugby teams in this country (no offense Connacht).
They each represent an entire province.
Combined together, they make up our international team.
There is massive TV and print media coverage of these 3 teams.
Two of them have recently won Heineken cups.
It doesn't take much promotion to get 20 odd thousand to watch their home games.
If you want to hold the IRFU up as an example of how to promote games maybe it would be a better comparison to look at club rugby which draws pathetic crowds.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 09:52:14 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
Lets cut to the chase.
We have 3 professional rugby teams in this country (no offense Connacht).
They each represent an entire province.
Combined together, they make up our international team.
There is massive TV and print media coverage of these 3 teams.
Two of them have recently won Heineken cups.
It doesn't take much promotion to get 20 odd thousand to watch their home games.
If you want to hold the IRFU up as an example of how to promote games maybe it would be a better comparison to look at club rugby which draws pathetic crowds.
i love sport, football/soccer/hurling/baseball/nfl/aussie rules. imo rugby is a tough sell, yet sell it does and big time in ireland. i would rather burn my bits then watch munster v the ospreys yet some of my family were there last night and loved it. so i think the gaa must be able to learn something from rugby, maybe scrap the provincial championship and run a combined championship and league, with the top 8 reaching a knock out stage? non events like today damage the gaa
offense taken jinxy ;) as for the match well firstly i did not go to croke park could not bear to bring myself up to dublin for another match so i watched the game at home(glad i did) . hard to take any positives from it bar the peformance of Kevin mc louglin and chris barett and mort jnr . i know some of the posters are saying dillon had a good game but i don't recall him getting on the ball to much the last 20 minutes of the game . our distribution of the ball was brutul ( how many times did we kick frees to the cork player) as was our ball rentention . don't know where we go from here plus the same thing happened that happened against meath in the final 15 minutes we just threw in the towel and allowed cork to walk all over us. fair play to cork well deserved win and the team to beat in the ai imo
Johnno seemed ambiguous about this match during the week. He was making sounds like 'now we re in a league final we ll be going out to win it' kind of thing. But it was nt convincing. As a result we looked like a team that was hoping not to lose by too much rather than bursting a gut to win. Both teams looked embarrassed at the end.
I believe most Mayo people got this vibe because there was no interest in this game to be honest.
This game doesn't matter much in itself. As we though might happen a few wheels came off - though not necessarily the ones we thought. Our half forward line was the worst line on the pitch and Trevor was shocking. Mayo easily broke even in possession in the first half but Cork just had to punish Mayo errors( daft and wild passing and shooting) to pull clear.
Its time to put lazy talk of hoodoos and other shit to bed once and for all. The real reason we lose these games are things like hunger, quality and poor tactics and coaching. Its time to get rid of these psychologists as well. What message is that giving to players - that they re not right in the head. If Johnno persists with this mumbo jumbo he should be fired. He should do his job as a coach. Here is a few things he could work on to make us much better when the serious stuff starts in Sligo.
Get Aidan O Sé to lay the ball off as a matter of priority. Bulldozing through when there is a player on the shoulder is not the right thing to do. If he does lay it off and go for the return he will score more himself as well.
Get others to lay it off as well - like Andy should have done at the end. Would nt have mattered to the result but its again the right thing to do. Others too delayed passing far too often.
Get men behind the ball quicker. People are saying Andy played too deep. Maybe but nobody was helping out the backs and as a result there was no pressure on shooters. Contrast that to the way Cork played. Basically our work rate today was way below what is required at this level. That needs to be sorted quick. Management now need more strings to their bow that just the third midfielder thing.
Get the best kickers to kick the ball and make sure others don't.
If we cant kick 45s then work some plays off them. Andy s attempt looked like a fat kid in primary school givin it the bull top. Cringeworthy.
Now selectors have their work cut out regarding selection. That was the great benefit from this game. They selected the only team they could today. Barrett and O Malley did fine( but O Malley need to stay with his man. In fact all our defenders are to quick to get sucked in and must learn to trust their colleagues). A bit of cover back would help as well.
O Sé and McGar seems the only midfield to go with now. And there is are huge issues with Trevor and Parsons.
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
If you leave aside the nature of the individual games, the Magners League is a success because it's a better product as a league. Each team plays twenty games - I think; I'm not from any of the three provinces myself - which makes it a proper league as there are enough games for the cream to rise to the top.
Seven games aren't really a league. Two bad results can make you lose all interest, while still leaving you safe from relegation. Kerry had a great league, for instance, even though they didn't contest the final. The League as it's currently set up isn't set up to encourage the best teams to get to the final, and the divisions are too small anyway. Armagh are Division 2 Champions but they would certainly beat Mayo today, from what I saw of both games.
If the GAA are going to promote the league they'll have to restructure it completely. And I don't think there's widespread support for that. We're annoyed this evening but by Wednesday no-one will give a toss about the League. And that's why this problem keeps cropping up.
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
27100 (or so it said on the big screen in Croker)
Ill post my
slating opinion tomorrow. ::)
Corks support in croker today was in the hundreds, so it was left to the 3 other teams to make up the numbers . i think the crowd today looked bigger than last year, but then last year you had cork & kerry with neither team big crowd pullers in the n f l . I didnt see the cork guy with the big hat who loves hogging the limelight but then again this was only the N F L. He will be out for the summer.
Was at the game today, and ive seen challenge matches with more intensity. The fear and anxiety shown today by mayo was ridiculous, only Kevin McLoughlin expressed himself in a positive way, and Conor Mortimer who i rate highly looked yere only threat from play for scores.
I dont think ive ever seen a set of supporters absolve a full back line of all blame whilst conceding 1-17, i think some of ye have pre conceived opinions on players and find it very hard to change yer minds. Like I was walking into the toilet and the usual conor mortimer comments among mayo fans, I asked one lad why do you think hes so bad, hes got yer main scores from play, the reply "hes a big head"..... he is yer best forward by a mile imo.
It will be a completely differnent mayo team against us, I count 7 problems for mayo after today that need sorting or even dropping, for whatever reason Croke park doesnt suit ye, but im sure in Markievicz ye will lift yereselves and have a better team and ye wont put in that type of performance against us for sure.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 25, 2010, 10:58:39 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
If you leave aside the nature of the individual games, the Magners League is a success because it's a better product as a league. Each team plays twenty games - I think; I'm not from any of the three provinces myself - which makes it a proper league as there are enough games for the cream to rise to the top.
Seven games aren't really a league. Two bad results can make you lose all interest, while still leaving you safe from relegation. Kerry had a great league, for instance, even though they didn't contest the final. The League as it's currently set up isn't set up to encourage the best teams to get to the final, and the divisions are too small anyway. Armagh are Division 2 Champions but they would certainly beat Mayo today, from what I saw of both games.
If the GAA are going to promote the league they'll have to restructure it completely. And I don't think there's widespread support for that. We're annoyed this evening but by Wednesday no-one will give a toss about the League. And that's why this problem keeps cropping up.
Maith thú, a Iolair, you're suckin' diesel here!
Apart from the obvious, there's another reason, IMO, why the NFL is not in the same league (geddit?) as the Magners or the Heineken leagues:
The rugby blazers, unlike the GAA suits, don't start mucking about with the rules on a 'Let's try this out and see how she goes" basis. I feel the NFL lost all credibility as a serious competition when it was decided to use retrospective trial by videos for some games but not for others.
I'd be quite happy if all games were subjected to post match scrutiny but what happened this year's competition led to some teams being deprived of the services of some of their players for upcoming games while others escaped equally deserved sanctions because of the absence of video recordings.
However, the league is over, for better or worse, and Cork won today on merit. Without doubt, they are short odds favourites to win the AI; it's theirs for the taking and if they happen to fall by the wayside, it will be their own fault.
Mayo learned a painful lesson today. They still have a long, long way to go before they become serious AI contenders.
However, they deserve credit for their league run; O'Mahony got as much out of his side as anyone could reasonably ask for. What they will take out of today's result and bring with them into the championships remains to be seen but one bad result won't turn a promising side into a bunch of no-hopers.
Mayo have come on a lot since the start of the year. There is no reason to feel they won't continue improving. But I'm more convinced than ever that our manager knows he has no hope of ever winning out until he has a team of his own making. Even then, the odds against him ever achieving this are intimidating. Today for instance, I thought our half forward trio were going to be our bankers. Between the three of them they have clocked up more championships mileage than any other half forward line in the land. None of them were up to the task today and Cork built their success on the dominance of their half backs. You can throw in their midfield as well but so many attacks were set up from there that Mayo were struggling from the start. If you except Clarke and possibly Conoreen up front, Mayo will have to look to the younger lads to end the Long Wait.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2010, 02:18:23 AM
all games were subjected to post match scrutiny but what happened this year's competition led to some
Mayo have come on a lot since the start of the year. There is no reason to feel they won't continue improving. But I'm more convinced than ever that our manager knows he has no hope of ever winning [b]out until he has a team of his own making[/b]. Even then, the odds against him ever achieving this are intimidating. Today for instance, I thought our half forward trio were going to be our bankers. Between the three of them they have clocked up more championships mileage than any other half forward line in the land. None of them were up to the task today and Cork built their success on the dominance of their half backs. You can throw in their midfield as well but so many attacks were set up from there that Mayo were struggling from the start. If you except Clarke and possibly Conoreen up front, Mayo will have to look to the younger lads to end the Long Wait.
surely at this stage Larnap this has to be HIS team if not how many more years before it is ?
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2010, 09:29:45 PM
. We also learned, what most of us knew, that McG + Parsons is not a credible partnership.
[/quote]
It would be a good name for a car dealership.
I think we are at the bottom of the rebuilding pile again. :( Only McLoughlin, Barrett and Conor Mortimer can take any credit for those on the field. Howley was atrocious, as was Parsons and Trevor Mortimer, Andy Moran never got into it either. Dillon not a centre-forward. Séamus O Shea didn't impose himself either. It was terrible yesterday. Another thing, why put on subs with a few minutes to go when the game was over Mr O'Mahony??? Surely Pat Harte could've been brought on with Kilcoyne and Parsons taken off to frig.
Losing that match is no harm to Mayo. It will keep excitement levels down running up to the Galway match and shows the management where work is needed. Cork may look good in April but who cares ?
From the Mayo point of view I think something of far more concern is the Rossies coming up with this all-Ireland minor team. It is very like the British election with the rossies as the previously no hoper lib Dems and Mayo as the Tories with Galway as New labour.
Awful stuff yesterday - you could sense it after our first attack that we weren't going to win that match. Players were panicking and clueless and hoofed the ball up in the air.
As has been said Howley is not good enough for CHB. I (and plenty of others) have been saying that since last year, hopefully Johnno will take action now.
McGarritty improved midfield when he came on, but Parsons should have been taken off or moved to CHF. When Seamie O'Shea was moved, he seemed lost and went out of the game.
Trevor was abysmal. He cannot kick the ball, which is shocking for a half-forward and captain. He was terrible in last year's league as well, but improved for the championship. He may improve again this year for a couple of games, but is not reliable and I think he should find himself on the bench.
But on the positives, Barrett was excellent again, and Kevin McLoughlin had his best game this year (possibly his best game yet for the seniors). We also have Keith Higgins and Varley to come back, and Kilkoyne with more match practice will improve things.
The main area of concern seems to have moved from FB to CHB. Keith Higgins is not the answer for that position - he doesn't have the presence or physicality for it. Tom Cunniffe is one option. Kieran Conroy is another. Could also bring Cafferkey out, and put Conroy in FB depending on the opposition full forward.
Just as an aside, there was one complete GOBSHITE sitting near me yesterday calling on O'Mahony to take off C Mort after 20 mins when a bad pass to Mort went out over the sideline. Then when Mort won a free and was lining up to take it (which he scored), yer man was roaring down not to let Mort take it. Thankfully Mort answered him by being our main (only) scoring threat. Some people just have pre-conceptions about players and are going to stick to them regardless of how the player is actually performing.
seen the second half and was set back a peg or two.Cork are good but not that good, Mayo froze from what I saw.
Still believe Mayo will win connaught but thats nothing to crow about, how many of those do we have.
I was hoping Mayo would win or lose by a point or two to keep it cool in Mayo, no fear now of losing the run of ourselves.Still not enough quality and too many lads freezing on the stage.
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
To be fair I can't recall any Mayo poster here claiming they will win the AI.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
You never read that on this board. Yes, you'll read it on HS but if you take that as a realistic representation of a county's supporters, then the whole country is made up of schoolkids and imbeciles.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
HS....exactly, maybe you should stick to that site with comments like that.
Cork have serious talent and while imo they didnt play that well yesterday they deserved the win.
I'll write more about them in the months to come I hope.
Its good to see honesty from the Mayo lads on here. There will be differences of opinion on who is good etc but my own view is that there were a few positives.
The defence was very tight for most of the game. Some good individual performances and to be fair the mayo midfield were good inthe first half and the breaking ball exploits of mayo during the whole game meant they wont a lot more of that ball than cork.
Mayo looked fitter and sharper in the first half. That would worry me that they have peaked fitness wise. A gamble to get them fit to help give confidence. It may pay off.
I was unimpressed with Trevor mortimer (maybe because of early inj) and the small corner forward. Nice little player but prob too small. FF too slow and not a natural score getter it seems (or natural passer). Conor mortimer made himself look good by getting a couple of nice scores from frees,but he was poor from play and I wouldnt pick a man like that - no matter his rep.
Also too many mayo men were moaning looking for frees, telling the ref they were pushed etc.
That drives me nuts to see any team or man do this, their mind is not on the game and when making excuses while on the field shows they are not confident or focused on the job.
Mayo have a few good man to come in, and while I dont rate mcgarrity as a midfielder, I'd say either he or harte might be a good bet for chf. Maybe as someone says promote mclaughlin to wing half forward, but as he looks good where he is, why not leave him there.
Mayo did well to improve themselves to this point. there could be more in the tank. Over to JOM.
For cork, D O'Connor looked superb. the rest were average by their own standards. Fair play to mayo for keeping them in check. cork need to find themselves as a team unit if they are to win the AI over the slightly depleted Kerry and the lurking Tyrone.
Overall the nfl div finals yielded a massive amount of scores this weekend. The least winnin score was 17 points, the least losing score was 12 points ( from memory). Every game served up near 30 scores. To me that shows that attacking football is back and the naysayers talking about defensive blankets and football becomming boring were way wrong.
Promoting this should be easy - but I think it should be in smaller venues, not double headers.
Make tickets hard to come by (esp for div 1) and there will be more clamour to get to see the final. That would make a better atmosphere. Also people willeventually realise that winning the nfl DOES springboard your side onto being real contenders for the AI. If we start to realise this, people will begin to see that they should take the league seriously.
Perception is everything.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
It's not like there's a string of All-Ireland contenders coming out of Leinster either. The top three are the top three, if anyone else challenges them it will almost certainly be an Ulster team.
Where to start with yesterday??
Well, Clarke did well in goal, other than a few poor kickouts, his awareness of play was excellent. In defence, Barrett and McLoughlin enhanced their reputations, McGarrity improved midfield a bit and Conor is still a threat in the forwards. Dillon was solid enough.
That's about as good as it gets though. Now the bad stuff...
Liam O'Malley is not an intercounty standard corner back and never will be. He repeatedly succeeds in looking good in half paced league games and failing when it matters. I don't want to see him playing for Mayo in the Championship again. Next year I wouldn't even have him on the panel because he might only look good in a few league games again and get his place back. He is just not good enough.
Trevor Howley has been exposed twice at CHB in Croke Park now. He clearly isn't up to it in this position, and I had genuinely thought he was. We need to figure out if there is another position he can play, maybe wing back or corner back, but that might have to wait until next years league I think because the time for experimenting is over. He may have to warm the bench for the summer.
As someone else said, Parsons needs a kick up the hole. He has the talent but something is lacking, I think its grit and drive. If he can't find it he shouldn't be playing.
Who's vice captain? Because Trevor was miles away from intercounty standard yesterday and it's not the first time. At this stage I don't really see what he has to offer, other than maybe as an impact sub to come on when opposition players are tiring. He might be able to run the legs off them then. It's pointless playing him from the start - he can't shoot for shit and just runs into blind alleys.
And I'm hoping Ronaldson wasn't fully fit. But even then his lack of inches will always be a problem at the highest level.
Over the last few weeks the team has been starting to more and more resemble last years 15. And that's been a mistake because changes have to be made. At least we have had this game to highlight our problems, without it we wouldn't have learned a few things and we might even yet be looking back at this game in July or August as a turning point (but not in September, not a chance). But if big changes are not made now, we might as well write off the year - and O'Mahony's second coming as manager along with it.
Here's the kind of team I would be looking to start against Sligo:
Clarke
Barrett Cafferkey Higgins
Gardiner McLoughlin Vaughan
McGarrity S O'Shea
A Moran Dillon Kilcoyne
C Mortimer A O'Shea Varley
That to me is about the best we have. It should be a far better 15 than started yesterday. It still leaves some bench options in Conroy, Cunniffe, Harte, Ronaldson and maybe Trevor Mortimer. We don't have much else, I have yet to be at all convinced by Barry Moran.
Those 6 are the best defence we have, it's actually an OK full back line with Keith back in it. I can't comment at all on Cunniffe, it's so long since we've seen him. Other than Keith, who we need to keep at corner back because of lack of alternatives, our best player in the backs is McLoughlin, and that's not just based on yesterday but on the last year or more of seeing him play. So I think we should give him a shot at CHB, he could be capable of playing the position in a similar way to Nallen in his earlier days.
Midfield pretty much picks itself now unless Parsons picks it up in a big way. Dillon is still our most talented forward so I would have him at 11 and leave O'Shea at 14, but in general it's the way the forwards are set up to play rather than the personnel that needs to be changed. When the ball goes in high to O'Shea the smaller lads along side should be heading straight for the action looking for breaks or lay offs from Aiden. He needs to be looking to break or distribute the ball straight away, turning for goal will not be an option against the best teams, he's a marked man.
Varley should get a run in the Championship now and it will be well deserved based on his performances. All is not lost yet, we can still go to Sligo and win. But if we are to do so a lot has to change.
It was once again a disappointing performance and i struggled to take any positives. Everything went right for Cork, they won a huge amount of breaks and in the fist half and received the benefit of a number of referring decisions. The first half was lost when Cork tagged on 5 points and Mayo kicked 3 atrocious (Trevor, parsons & Ronaldo) wides and hit the crossbar.
Mayo started brightly in the second half but lost possession with misplaced passes over and over again and lost every break around the middle. Sad to say that the towel was thrown in again today quite early. Honourable exception to Clarke, O'Malley & Barret.
Cork had 8-10 men behind the ball all day while we struggled to get back and tackle. Aidan O'Shea was doubled teamed for most of the day.
I lost count the number of times Cork players broke through tackles. Cork half back & forward line had too much time on the ball and could pick out their passes at will. Once again we showed a level of naivety that is unacceptable at this level.
Wholesale changes are not the answer, Parsons had a great league overall and could have got motm in 2 or 3 games. We have a relatively strong panel and it is more about getting the attitude and tactics right for each individual game rather than trying to outplay and outscore superior teams. I firmly believe we should have got men behind the ball all day today and stop them scoring. It might not be pretty but it would have kept us in the game longer and even in defeat we could have taken something out of the game.
Quote
I firmly believe we should have got men behind the ball all day today and stop them scoring. It might not be pretty but it would have kept us in the game longer and even in defeat we could have taken something out of the game.
I saw Trevor Mortimer and Andy Moran behind the ball several times but it made no difference. Cork were able to kick the ball over the bar very easily. 1-17 is some score. Cork were well able to turn posession into scores fairly easily - Mayo were not.
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2010, 08:46:33 AMFrom the Mayo point of view I think something of far more concern is the Rossies coming up with this all-Ireland minor team. It is very like the British election with the rossies as the previously no hoper lib Dems and Mayo as the Tories with Galway as New labour.
There is absolutely no chance of Roscommon making any sort of impact in Connacht this year. None. They are at least 2/3 years from being competative again. Some talent coming up through the ranks from Minor and U-21 but they still lack experience and need bulking up physically. Very realistic chance of London beating them in a few weeks time in Ruislip. And even if they don't Leitrim will be a seriously motivated team for the semi final following the tragic death of Philly McGuinness. I would not be too worried about Roscommon if I were one of the other 5 teams in Connacht, and thats not cute hoorism talk. Thats having watched them in the league drop to Div 4 and have their arses handed to them by Mayo last year.
Bad and all as Mayo were yesterday they will get better as the championship comes round. They would still be my tip to win it and do well too outside Connacht. They might not be realistic AI material yet but they are still a formidable outfit on their day. The Mayo followers tend to be hard on them when they lose and get very down in the mouth about it all. Come championship they will be back on form though.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?
Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?
I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 26, 2010, 08:22:55 AM
surely at this stage Larnap this has to be HIS team if not how many more years before it is ?
I see him having one more year (2011) to do this. By then, he should have brought on the younger players as far as it possible for anyone to do. He has a promising side coming along but there is only so much that a manager can achieve with any panel of players and Johnno and his cubs are no exception.
After the Meath debacle last season, I fully expected him to step down. I would have fully understood it if he had done so; up to that point, I had thought he hadn't a clue and had no problem saying so. But he started off last season by making a fair fist of building up some sort of a settled team and, going on form, Mayo should have knocked Meath aside without any problems.
They didn't but in the process showed that they were nowhere near the standard required to win an AI and could well have lost the Connacht Final as well.
I expected the 'legacy' players would have led the way and provided the bit of cuteness and leadership needed to keep the team together. Quite plainly, they didn't; if anything, the lot of them were more at sea than any of the younger lads on show that day.
I don't think any of them owe us anything but I can't see an All Ireland coming our way until Johnno has developed suitable replacements for most if not all of them.
That's why I was intrigued when he stayed on for another year; he must see some potential in the younger lads or why go through another year of pure hell?
Our half forward line should have carried the fight to Cork yesterday; for a mixture of experience and a proven record of individual brilliance at times, they would be hard to beat anywhere.
Yesterday they failed to show up and the Cork half backs, O'Leary in particular, had ample time and space to set up one attack after another. The same thing happened during most of the first half down in Cork but Mayo managed to tighten up after the first 25 minutes or so. Yup; the midfield and our own half backs were overwhelmed also but the rot began where one should least expect it to happen.
In fairness to Conoreen, he did have a good day but he can be as unpredictable as a baby's bum and only Clarkie, from the Boys of the Old Brigade, came through with his reputation intact. He just doesn't play substandard games.
Mayo have had a commendable league run—no doubt about that and one stinker won't turn the emerging players into plodders overnight but Johnno will have to come up a whole lot of others if he is to stand a chance of winning out before he runs out of time and talent available to him.
He has come up with a lot of new faces with serious potential during the league and only time will tell if he can find enough others to finish the job. I'm just afraid he won't find them by looking to the past.
Onwards and upwards; let's teach Sligonian and co. a bit of manners!
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?
Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?
I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.
I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.
I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.
Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?
Of course they could. Neither province is so strong that Galway and Mayo would have absolutely no chance of winning them.
Now Munster on the other hand would be more difficult as you'd have to get past possibly both Cork and Kerry unless one of them knocked the other out.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?
Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?
I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.
I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.
I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.
Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.
It's still a good Tyrone team and we all know Tyrone in Championship are an even more difficult animal to beat compared to league. Tyrone would still beat either team come championship.
This is Mayo's problem. They generally go the opposite way in championship and have failed numerous times in CP. Galway have the potential for a different mentality, but sadly aren't showing it in Championship recently. Maye JK will bring it in time - but not this year.
I don't think Mayo would have beaten Down or Armagh yesterday nor do I think they'd have half a hope of beating them on a championship Sunday. I don't think they could beat Tyrone either.
I don't think on a championship day they could beat Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
(I agree with you GalwayBayBoy on your last point.)
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Mayo were shown up for the very standard they are at.
Year after year on this board or HS you hear how they expect to win the AI and the reality is they are no where near that level and get found out in Croker.
It was typical Mayo, fit and well prepared but no real footballing nous to counter Cork.
I will admit - it was a good Cork team, not your average league finalist, but it's still the standard Cork need to prepare for.
The Connacht championship is poor fair and a worry for Galway also. If there was an open draw in the Championship I doubt either would make it to the final 8 - and if one did, my money would be on Galway.
Most worryingly of all is that League performances in the qualifying stages are generally much weaker competitive games than championship games - apart from the finals - which are as close as you'll get to championship and Mayo failed at that stage.
Even with JK I don't think Galway will make a dent in the Championship of note and neither would get out of Ulster, Leinster or Munster, but because of the championship both might make it to qualifying stages as Leitrim haven't the numbers, Sligo may shock one of them but that'll be the sum total of the drama's there.
Someone above said it would be good for them as Mayo will go in under the radar for the Galway match ... I've heard it all now. Optimism know's no bounds.
Logan if you think the Leinster or Ulster championships are markedly better than the Connacht Championships you're entitled to your delusions. Currently we have Cork, Kerry and then the rest......................................
Oh right ... I used remember a team called Tyrone a while back? Or was that before Cork won their All Irelands?
Do you honestly think Mayo or Galway could get out of either Leinster or Ulster?
I think there now is a huge case to be made for the open draw to balance out the levels of Gaelic Football across the provinces.
I remember Tyrone too and the the current team ain't a patch on the 2005 model. I do think Mayo/Galway could get out of the other 2 provinces. I seem to recall Tyrone being relegated recently- hardly a glowing reference for the province.
I would rate Connacht/Ulster on a par in terms of the quality teams they have. Leinster is below both and Munster has the 2 best teams in Ireland.
Galway/Sligo and Mayo should make on side of gthe draw very interesting this season.
I don't think Mayo would have beaten Down or Armagh yesterday nor do I think they'd have half a hope of beating them on a championship Sunday. I don't think they could beat Tyrone either.
I don't think on a championship day they could beat Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
Far be it from me to defend Mayo but why on earth could they not beat any of those teams? It's not like any of those other sides are any great shakes either. Decent sides yes but eminently beatable.
Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:08:04 PM
Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.
No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!
Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:08:04 PM
Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.
No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!
Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.
League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.
I was as disappointed and disgusted leaving Croke Park as I have been after leaving it any time Mayo have lost in the past. There are serious question marks over a lot of players but after reflecting on it, I dont think we are as far away from getting it right than we showed yesterday.
Clarke -
Was only average between the sticks yesterday. Granted he was off his line on occasions but why was he aiming for the wings and ending up kicking at least 4 balls out over the sideline? Did he not have faith in the mid-field, especially when McGarity seemed to improve things when he came on?
Barrett, G Cafferkey, L O'Malley
The full backline were wiped yesterday. Id did foresee it but I was hoping I would be wrong. Barrett did Ok but im not sure if he is going to cut it. O Malley was miles off his man and is turned too easily, he is not up to it. Ball in hand he is very limited and wasnt able to break a tackle and drive out with possession. Cafferkey hadnt his best day at the office and he wasnt commanding as a fullback.
D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin
I was happiest with McLoughlin who had a great game. He was the only Mayo player that took things on and seemed up for it. I have to pay tribute to Vaughan too who was good defencivly and played, well but Howley was destroyed. I knew he was an accident waiting to happen. He doent seem to have any clue what to do at CB and doent have the physique for it. No way can he start at CB again IMO.
Parsons, S O'Shea -
Parsons would break your heart. For a guy with his ability he hasnt shone at senior level yet and never seems to be pushing it out. S O Shea was very good and worked hard, tackling and turning over possession. He was powerful coming forward and I thought he played well. I know he got caught up in possession under the Cusack stand but there was no movement from the forwards at the time so im not blaming him for that.
A Moran, A Dillon, T Mortimer
Sadly Moran and Dillon went missing for long periods but I saw Dillon hobbling around in the second half so he didnt seem fully fit. Moran was in and out it too and was playing deep a lot of the time defending. In a word, Trevor was diabolical, I dont want to even think about or comment any further except to say that his basic skill level is not high enough.
C Mortimer (0-6, three frees), A O'Shea, M Ronaldson.
Conor did well and I was pleased with him although he did balloon one in the air (he should t have got the ball as Trev should have taken the shot) and a fist pass or two went astray but I cant fault him after that. Aidan O Shea did fine when he got the ball but why were they kicking into the corners and not letting it in high? Ronaldson didnt impress me yesterday and is a bit small to cut it.
McGarrity
Seemed to improve midfield when he came on so I have no complaints.
Kilcoyne
Didnt get long enough to make an impression but should have been on for Trev long before he came in.
Freeman
Harte
B Moran
The game was over and I guess JOM was just giving the lads a run out in Croke Park.
My team for Sligo based on the league
Clarke
K Higgins, Ger Cafferkey, Trevor Howley
D Vaughan, S O Shea, K McLoughlin
McGarity, Parsons
Andy Moran, Alan Dillon, Aidan Kilcoyne
C Mortimer, A O'Shea, Enda Varley
The above defence is much more solid. Howley has better defending qualities and we need Keith Higgins in the other corner. Cafferkey is just about holding on because there are days I would use Conroy against a bigger full forward. Having said that I would use Cafferkey in the corner before Howley if Conroy was fullback.
The wing backs pick themselves but I would put Seamus O Shea at CB as he has all the qualities. He is very good at stopping and tackling and would hit anything that came down the middle. I think he is instinctively defensive and he presence would hold that space.
Parsons would want a running kick in the arse on his way out the dressing room to get him going. McGarity proved in the half he was on that he is our best option for high fielding.
That half forward line and serious penetration. Andy and Killer love running at defences and all three are good at foraging and winning breaks. We know Dillons reading and play-making ability is proven in the past so I would leave him at CF.
The Mort showed at the weekend that he is still one of our best scorers and Endy Varley proved in the league that he is worth his place. I would actually change it up and switch Dillon and Aidan O Shea for a few minutes to mix up the attack. All in all I think thats the best we can do with the current panel.
I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:08:04 PM
Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.
No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!
Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.
League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.
League means nothing come championship - especially in Ulster above all places.
Standard of football isn't great in Leinster - but do you think McGeeney is worried about a League or even Gilroy?
You can win all the leagues you want but it doesn't matter.
The year Armagh won the AI they were in Div 2
Kerry never bothered with the league for decades
Derry won the League and then lost to Fermangh in the first round!
Runners up the next and bombed in the championship.
I could go on ...
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 26, 2010, 03:25:16 PM
I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.
Should be good value in the build-up anyway with Sligonian vs Mayo lads.
Kevin Walsh better get his team selection right or he'll be waking up to a horse's head in the bed.
It is a pity that we now have no competitive game until Sligo in the Championship. On yesterday's display we will need 4-5 changes. As bad as Mayo were we could have won that game yesterday. I mean that. We had 2 great goal chances from Ronnie and Aidan O'Shea. We could have gone into half-time in the lead.
As regards Andy Moran and Trev filtering back into half-back line, how many times did this then allow Cork to start attacks from their half-back line and always be able to create an overlap. They always had one man over because Mayo weren't marking higher up the pitch. Cork's scores were so much easier to come by because of this. They always had that yard more space. Mayo's attack didn't have that liberty..
I have calmed down a bit since yesterday but one thing that is sticking in my mind is that Alan Dillon is not a center forward. He has been one of the best no. 12's in the game but in the center he doesn't offer enough physicality or scoring. He takes too many touches when the ball should have been let in earlier. We need him scoring rather than creating IMO.
I think it's a pity David Heaney didn't wait around one more year. I think he could have done a job at center back. It pains me to know that JOM will leave Howley there. He will get away with his loose marking a bit more on smaller pitches but in Croker he is a HUGE liability. How he could go from U-21 corner back to Senior center back without playing there for his club is beyond me.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:31:05 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2010, 03:08:04 PM
Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.
No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!
Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.
League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.
League means nothing come championship - especially in Ulster above all places.
Standard of football isn't great in Leinster - but do you think McGeeney is worried about a League or even Gilroy?
You can win all the leagues you want but it doesn't matter.
The year Armagh won the AI they were in Div 2
Kerry never bothered with the league for decades
Derry won the League and then lost to Fermangh in the first round!
Runners up the next and bombed in the championship.
I could go on ...
Kerry have won 3 leagues this deacade.At least 2 of them they won the all-ireland the same year.
I can guarantee you the winner of this years All-Ireland resides in Div 1.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2010, 02:34:56 PM
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 26, 2010, 08:22:55 AM
surely at this stage Larnap this has to be HIS team if not how many more years before it is ?
I see him having one more year (2011) to do this. By then, he should have brought on the younger players as far as it possible for anyone to do. He has a promising side coming along but there is only so much that a manager can achieve with any panel of players and Johnno and his cubs are no exception.
After the Meath debacle last season, I fully expected him to step down. I would have fully understood it if he had done so; up to that point, I had thought he hadn't a clue and had no problem saying so. But he started off last season by making a fair fist of building up some sort of a settled team and, going on form, Mayo should have knocked Meath aside without any problems.
They didn't but in the process showed that they were nowhere near the standard required to win an AI and could well have lost the Connacht Final as well.
I expected the 'legacy' players would have led the way and provided the bit of cuteness and leadership needed to keep the team together. Quite plainly, they didn't; if anything, the lot of them were more at sea than any of the younger lads on show that day.
I don't think any of them owe us anything but I can't see an All Ireland coming our way until Johnno has developed suitable replacements for most if not all of them.
That's why I was intrigued when he stayed on for another year; he must see some potential in the younger lads or why go through another year of pure hell?
Our half forward line should have carried the fight to Cork yesterday; for a mixture of experience and a proven record of individual brilliance at times, they would be hard to beat anywhere.
Yesterday they failed to show up and the Cork half backs, O'Leary in particular, had ample time and space to set up one attack after another. The same thing happened during most of the first half down in Cork but Mayo managed to tighten up after the first 25 minutes or so. Yup; the midfield and our own half backs were overwhelmed also but the rot began where one should least expect it to happen.
In fairness to Conoreen, he did have a good day but he can be as unpredictable as a baby's bum and only Clarkie, from the Boys of the Old Brigade, came through with his reputation intact. He just doesn't play substandard games.
Mayo have had a commendable league run—no doubt about that and one stinker won't turn the emerging players into plodders overnight but Johnno will have to come up a whole lot of others if he is to stand a chance of winning out before he runs out of time and talent available to him.
He has come up with a lot of new faces with serious potential during the league and only time will tell if he can find enough others to finish the job. I'm just afraid he won't find them by looking to the past.
Onwards and upwards; let's teach Sligonian and co. a bit of manners!
I have to agree with what you have written here, not many players came out of yesterday with their reputation intact, i have to say i thought kevin Mc Loughlin was the stand out man on the mayo team, we wanted the ball which was a rare attribute on the team yesterday and wasn't afraid to take on the ball. We have listened about the new spirit in the team and the never say die attitude of our lads, yet the heads dropped after 20 minutes. Our half back line stood off O' Connor for the whole first half, i watched him kick a point with the nearest mayo man 30 yards away. We have senior players on that team who have come out in the "media" who want to be leaders on this team, well there were a lot of them hiding in the bushes on Jones road by the looks of things, when is the last time a player in a Mayo jersey in Croke park got a game by the balls and pulled the rest of the team through with him? Do we not have these characters in Mayo. Look at Stevie Mc Donnell or Benny Coulter yesterday, win at all cost attitude, head in first came out with the ball, make the most of the possession and so on. Cork are a serious outfit, big, athletic and good footballers and winning is a good habit no matter what competition. Cork wanted to put last years defeat in Croker,behind them, we were afraid to in my opinion. We are still a mentally fragile team on the big occasion, the facts at this stage don't lie, and having read a comment by one of our players in one of the papers today following yesterdays defeat that the Mayo players are "getting used to losing in Croke park", it looks like the team of '51 will have to carry the torch for a few more years yet.
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 26, 2010, 03:35:20 PM
It is a pity that we now have no competitive game until Sligo in the Championship. On yesterday's display we will need 4-5 changes. As bad as Mayo were we could have won that game yesterday. I mean that. We had 2 great goal chances from Ronnie and Aidan O'Shea. We could have gone into half-time in the lead.
As regards Andy Moran and Trev filtering back into half-back line, how many times did this then allow Cork to start attacks from their half-back line and always be able to create an overlap. They always had one man over because Mayo weren't marking higher up the pitch. Cork's scores were so much easier to come by because of this. They always had that yard more space. Mayo's attack didn't have that liberty..
I have calmed down a bit since yesterday but one thing that is sticking in my mind is that Alan Dillon is not a center forward. He has been one of the best no. 12's in the game but in the center he doesn't offer enough physicality or scoring. He takes too many touches when the ball should have been let in earlier. We need him scoring rather than creating IMO.
I think it's a pity David Heaney didn't wait around one more year. I think he could have done a job at center back. It pains me to know that JOM will leave Howley there. He will get away with his loose marking a bit more on smaller pitches but in Croker he is a HUGE liability. How he could go from U-21 corner back to Senior center back without playing there for his club is beyond me.
I saw Dublin failing miserably with the same strategy of dropping half forwards back to mark nobody. You can't invite a team like Cork onto you like that. The tackling of the Mayo forwards was absymal. Lads like Aidan O shea and Mortimer have to do the dirty stuff as well.
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
hasn't Mark Ronaldson been Mayo's Top scorer this year? he was only half fit when he came on yesterday & IMO a certain Start v Sligo
Now as an outsider,i dont know if the mayoheads would agree with me, but for a county with such a rich tradition,and obvious talent,i dont think JOM has done a good job whatsoever.
What i seen yesterday was a team going out to play pure football with very little tactical nous displayed whatsoever.
To even contend with such an athletic, slick cork team requires cynicism and pure ignorance that Mayo just do not have.
i dont see any hint of a well planned and practised defensive system in place,which is more than just players filtering behind the ball.
Alan Dillon is top drawer,Aidan O Shea will be in 2/3 years time.
Donal Vaughan,Seamus O Se,Conor Mortimer,Andy Moran,Ronan McGarrity,Tom Parsons,Aidan Kilcoyne,Keith Higgins are talented players,more so than virtually all but 4/5 counties,but JOM has gotten absolutely f**k all out of them, and at the moment,you would unfortunately have to say,they are an very average team. With the right management/coaching and gameplan they could be so much more.
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 26, 2010, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 26, 2010, 03:25:16 PM
I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.
Should be good value in the build-up anyway with Sligonian vs Mayo lads.
Kevin Walsh better get his team selection right or he'll be waking up to a horse's head in the bed.
Well its back to drawing board as far im concerned for mayo, but GBB i and most of the Sligo lads know our starting line up already. KW has done a great job and unearthed talent i and a few other sligolads knew would make it so really I have no criticisms of Walsh at all. Hes pretty done what i would do so i cant whinge ;). Even on sat nite in the past Id be whinging about managers not making changes, and he made a switch the last day that saved us a few scores, i could see it before he did it, but unlike the past he was quick to do it. Walsh is the real deal. And no yere never getting him back, he wasnt good enough for yere minors so tough luck :D.
Ross4life, ronaldson will be in harrisons or donovans pocket.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
[/quote
This has to be a wind up merchant
So Gaeilgoir ... 3 quick yes/no answers ..
You think Mayo are good enough to win an AI?
You think Connacht football is of a higher standard than Ulster and Leinster when it comes to Championship?
You believe winning a League is a predictor of success in Championship?
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 26, 2010, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 26, 2010, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 26, 2010, 03:25:16 PM
Ross4life, ronaldson will be in harrisons or donovans pocket.
Well i remember the high hopes of the Sligo Fan's before the Galway game last year & Saying Meehan would be in someones pocket
of course Ronaldson doesn't have the class of him but Sligo will need 70mins good concentration to win
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
So Mayo can beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin in Championship and/or win and AI?
And I'm bullshitting?
Lol!
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
So Mayo can beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin in Championship and/or win and AI?
And I'm bullshitting?
Lol!
Right, you're obviously a WUM, and not a very good one.
Yes, I think Mayo could (not necessarily would) beat any of those counties. I did not say they would would win the AI so I can only assume you mentioned that to provoke some sort of argument.
Seeing as you didn't contribute to the thread prior to the final, and I don't remember you showing any interest in Mayo before today, I'd imagine you're bored and on the wind-up. I won't be taking the bait from now on.
I agree with Logan. Mayo will find it hard to beat Sligo in Markievicz never mind the other teams come championship.
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
So Mayo can beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin in Championship and/or win and AI?
And I'm bullshitting?
Lol!
Right, you're obviously a WUM, and not a very good one.
Yes, I think Mayo could (not necessarily would) beat any of those counties. I did not say they would would win the AI so I can only assume you mentioned that to provoke some sort of argument.
Seeing as you didn't contribute to the thread prior to the final, and I don't remember you showing any interest in Mayo before today, I'd imagine you're bored and on the wind-up. I won't be taking the bait from now on.
to be fair Tubberman,you may disagree with him,but Logan's not a WUM,hes a very knowledgeable poster who has fairly good contacts and given me very helpful information in the past.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 26, 2010, 05:00:30 PM
I agree with Logan. Mayo will find it hard to beat Sligo in Markievicz never mind the other teams come championship.
Really hitting manic depression fellas. Sligo will have their own mental issues going into that game. In other words actually playing well while being expected to perform is a hell of a lot different then going in as rank outsiders as they have generally done. Mayo won't meet anyone in the Connacht championship remotely at Cork's level so they have at least as much chance as anyone else.
Quote from: ross4life on April 26, 2010, 04:50:16 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 26, 2010, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 26, 2010, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 26, 2010, 03:25:16 PM
Ross4life, ronaldson will be in harrisons or donovans pocket.
Well i remember the high hopes of the Sligo Fan's before the Galway game last year & Saying Meehan would be in someones pocket
of course Ronaldson doesn't have the class of him but Sligo will need 70mins good concentration to win
Ya but alot of people forget last yr we had a HB line of mcnamara and ewing, 2 players I dont rate, it was armstrong who beat us not meehan last yr, I think meehan only scored 3pts which is as good as youll do on him. In fairness this sligo team is miles ahead of last yrs, miles.
I didnt say we'd beat mayo either, I just said ronaldson wouldnt not get any change out of donovan or harrison. Id be expecting to win that battle, however mortimer is going to be a serious threat and handful for either of our corner backs.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 26, 2010, 05:00:30 PM
I agree with Logan. Mayo will find it hard to beat Sligo in Markievicz never mind the other teams come championship.
I wouldnt be so sure about that Farrandeelin,
the standard in Division 3 is shocking,take this from someone who has been at a fair few games in that division over the last two years,id have been of the opinion earlier in the year that Antrim looked to be a very promising outfit,but now its obvious they are in reality a very average team ,Sligo are a bit better,but they are not a great team by any means(and i mean that with the greatest respect for them).
Mayo due to the talent available and despite their management holding them back,will probably still make the All Ireland quarter finals,but as things stand,going any further looks very unlikely.
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
So Mayo can beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin in Championship and/or win and AI?
And I'm bullshitting?
Lol!
Right, you're obviously a WUM, and not a very good one.
Yes, I think Mayo could (not necessarily would) beat any of those counties. I did not say they would would win the AI so I can only assume you mentioned that to provoke some sort of argument.
Seeing as you didn't contribute to the thread prior to the final, and I don't remember you showing any interest in Mayo before today, I'd imagine you're bored and on the wind-up. I won't be taking the bait from now on.
Not a WUM, not looking for an argument.
Obviously Mayo people think differently and believe, like you, they can beat any of those counties.
I don't.
What is the Mayo opinion of JOM's reign?
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 26, 2010, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 26, 2010, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 26, 2010, 03:25:16 PM
I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.
Should be good value in the build-up anyway with Sligonian vs Mayo lads.
Kevin Walsh better get his team selection right or he'll be waking up to a horse's head in the bed.
Well its back to drawing board as far im concerned for mayo, but GBB i and most of the Sligo lads know our starting line up already. KW has done a great job and unearthed talent i and a few other sligolads knew would make it so really I have no criticisms of Walsh at all. Hes pretty done what i would do so i cant whinge ;). Even on sat nite in the past Id be whinging about managers not making changes, and he made a switch the last day that saved us a few scores, i could see it before he did it, but unlike the past he was quick to do it. Walsh is the real deal. And no yere never getting him back, he wasnt good enough for yere minors so tough luck :D.
Ah I'm sure big Kevin will be back in Galway at some stage. He is a Galway man after all and you still see him at Galway matches with the kids when it's not clashing with Sligo fixtures. He'll be in Sligo for a while yet though I imagine barring a disaster altogether.
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 26, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Chimley on April 26, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 26, 2010, 03:52:24 PM
You can't guarantee anything.
Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.
Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.
Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.
Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.
Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.
I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
No, that's not all you said. You also said Mayo wouldn't beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin.
That's very different to saying they won't win the All-Ireland.
You said above that "Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success." Yet that's exactly what you're doing - judging Mayo's championship prospects on yesterday's league final.
In short, you're a bullshitter. ;)
So Mayo can beat Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare or Dublin in Championship and/or win and AI?
And I'm bullshitting?
Lol!
Right, you're obviously a WUM, and not a very good one.
Yes, I think Mayo could (not necessarily would) beat any of those counties. I did not say they would would win the AI so I can only assume you mentioned that to provoke some sort of argument.
Seeing as you didn't contribute to the thread prior to the final, and I don't remember you showing any interest in Mayo before today, I'd imagine you're bored and on the wind-up. I won't be taking the bait from now on.
Not a WUM, not looking for an argument.
Obviously Mayo people think differently and believe, like you, they can beat any of those counties.
I don't.
Big difference in fairness between saying Mayo can win an All-Ireland and Mayo beating the likes of Down, Armagh, Dublin, Meath, Kildare, etc. Are they capable of doing the former this year? Probably not. Can they beat any of those teams on a given day? Most definitely because those teams while decent are not that great themselves and I'd probably fancy Mayo to beat most of them to be honest.
Jeysus when Mayo win a couple of games everyone goes wild and when they lose one it is the end of the world. We are not as good as the 6 wins out of suggested but neither are we as bad as yesterday suggests either. We need to get away from hysterical overreaction to every game.
24 hours later here are my thoughts:
Clarke: Fine display apart from one dropped ball and a couple for poor kicks to the sideline.
FB line
This was our best line until Cork finally got the goal. Barrett did very well and deserves another look while Cafferkey worked hard getting in some good tackles. Liam O'Malley as usual comes in for unfair criticism. I though he did very well on Goulding while the game was alive which was until the goal and yesterday was the only one willing to tackle hard, for which he got booked. Like i said our best line.
HB Line.
Vaughan was fine and McLoughlin went up in my estimation but as I said earlier the sideline have to hold theirs hands up and admit leaving Howley at 6 was a mistake. It cost us any chance we might have had and will have done nothing for Howley's confidence, he has been a good player for us and didn't deserve that. I hope he isn't damaged by the experience but knowing Mayo supporters (read Cosmo's comments on Liam O'Malley) he will probably be reminded of it daily forever.
MF
Hard to find a positive. SOS was ok at times (remember he is not very experienced so shouldn't be judged to harshly) while Parsons frustrates. We know he has talent but he really needs to improve his concentration.
HF line
For long periods Alan Dillon was the only player making a run to receive a pass. Remember that when criticising our defenders passing. No team line can function like that. Andy Moran & Trevor will have better days but one or both will probably lose their places after yesterday. BTW please can we have someone else taking the 45s?
FF line.
AOS has a lot to learn but I am sure he will come good. Either a forward moves fast or he moves the ball fast. AOS must learn to move the ball quickly as he ends up swarmed with defenders when he doesn't. He can then wait for the one or two good chances that come his way to take on the defense. Conor Mort (incredible despite more criticism from his Mayo supporters) got 3 frees and 3 other points. That would be a good day for the Gooch ffs. Ronaldson didn't look fit and while I was glad to see the Killer, Pillar & Thriller re-united it will take the Killer time to get match fit.
In 1996 we lost a league quarter final (remember them) to Derry. Hardly inspiring stuff but given that we were in div 3 that was seen as progress. Look how that summer turned out. Don't write this one off yet just because a very good Cork team gave us a runaround.
As for Cork, I think the rest of the country will be very worried. Donncha O'Connor destroyed us and he won't even start the summer at 11!
I'm not going to labour the point much more - I agree they could beat them on a given league day - but sorry I believe that come championship days Mayo wouldn't beat those teams.
You're right there's a huge difference in winning an AI and beating those teams.
But the only reason I listed those teams is as they are teams that could make it out of their province and Mayo could meet in the championship (rather than listing the obvious teams like Tyrone, Kerry and Cork - which with respect I sincerely doubt many Mayo people believe they could beat in championship - or any other county for that matter) and I believe that - again - on a Championship Sunday would have a more ruthless cutting edge and beat Mayo.
On paper one could argue Mayo have better teams, but there is a cutting edge missing that is shown up on Championship days (and possibly League finals) that those other teams will have come the summer, and I just felt we saw that again yesterday.
It's not anti-Mayo or anything, it's just an observation. Missing that cutting edge to go the whole way on a championship Sunday. O'Cinneide's piece over the weekend suggested they had found it, but afraid not. Which is why I was asking about what Mayo people felt about JOM's reign.
Do you disagree with all of that GalwayBayBoy?
Very disappointed after yesterdays performance. I was very annoyed at some of the players particularly Liam O'Malley, Trevor Howley, Tom Parsons and Trevor Mortimer. However after thinking about it today it's hard on the players to. I blame the management team for this particular collapse.
I would love to ask JOM why Tom Parsons was allowed to continue for so long with his head down not in the right frame of mind at all. Getting frustrated and standing off instead of getting stuck in.
Trevor Howley got the run around two weeks ago from O'Connor and the same happened yesterday. He doesn't play centre back for knockmore yet JOM persists with him here even though it's clear he is not able for it. He is a fine player but not in this position by the looks of things.
It's the Same with Liam O'Malley. JOM may not have many options from the bench but there is never a plan B when it comes to Liam. I think back to the Derry match a couple of years ago when he was left to mark Bradley for the entire game even though he was being destroyed. I don't know if there is a place for him on the team.
In fairness to JOM this time he did remove Trevor Mortimer but what I would like to know is why he is allowed to do the same things over and over again. The manager should be able to sort this out.
Finally, the game was over after 10 mins of the second half. What was the point in bringing 3 lads in with a few mins to go. It drives me mad to see that.
The game was over after 10 mins of first half not 10 mins of second half. It was one of the worst games i have ever sat through . I was clear from an early stage that mayo had major problems in key positions.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2010, 02:18:23 AM
However, the league is over, for better or worse, and Cork won today on merit. Without doubt, they are short odds favourites to win the AI; it's theirs for the taking and if they happen to fall by the wayside, it will be their own fault.
how are cork short odds favourite to win the ai? they beat an absent (yet again) mayo and that makes them good? ill bet you anything this kerry will beat them when it counts in 2010. dont take my word, most cork supporters will tell you that
Quote from: rocco on April 26, 2010, 07:52:01 PM
The game was over after 10 mins of first half not 10 mins of second half. It was one of the worst games i have ever sat through . I was clear from an early stage that mayo had major problems in key positions.
It was surely. Why didn't O'Mahony do something about it then? Howley was getting the runaround as everyone acknowledges by O'Connor. It really is so frustrating sitting watching them getting beaten every day in Croke Park. People might say I'm a hurler on the ditch with my criticism, but I blame O'Mahony no1 for not moving players around. It might have worked.
The only players who can say they've done well were Keith Higgins and Enda Varley because they were not involved.
Logan go home to the Hoganstand website.
To be fair too the Mayo Lads it's better to lose now & get things sorted out for the Championship than to have won going into the championship with false hopes
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 25, 2010, 10:58:39 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 25, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.
I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?
jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.
anyone got todays attendance?
If you leave aside the nature of the individual games, the Magners League is a success because it's a better product as a league. Each team plays twenty games - I think; I'm not from any of the three provinces myself - which makes it a proper league as there are enough games for the cream to rise to the top.
Seven games aren't really a league. Two bad results can make you lose all interest, while still leaving you safe from relegation. Kerry had a great league, for instance, even though they didn't contest the final. The League as it's currently set up isn't set up to encourage the best teams to get to the final, and the divisions are too small anyway. Armagh are Division 2 Champions but they would certainly beat Mayo today, from what I saw of both games.
If the GAA are going to promote the league they'll have to restructure it completely. And I don't think there's widespread support for that. We're annoyed this evening but by Wednesday no-one will give a toss about the League. And that's why this problem keeps cropping up.
connacht v munster 2 weeks ago in galway had 3,500 at it - not even a sell out (5k). if that game was 60 miles down the road there would be 20k+ in thomand. why? its the thomand athmosphere that helps sell it, why else would these fans not drive up the road? same with connacht v leinster last week 4,500 at it, not even a sell out. magners league games are played in front of paltry crowds in scotland. the gaa had 27k yesterday unfortunately they mainly left before the big event!
Where was Gardiner for this game, is he injured?? his runs through midfield were sorely missed..... A few bad calls from the bench too yesterday...Parsons should have been taken off after 10 mins, he had a stinker. C.Mort should have been left on as should ronaldson, marking was a disaster, we need Higgins back, cork lads were free to score at leisure.
Well done Cork. Time to prepare for the championship.
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Moysider, thats a great post. The only thing is that andy moran and co have muscle on them according to the press photos and should not be pushed around too easily.The leader thing is a big problem, not many have a presence like d brady or heaney in their prime.And a captain has to be able to lead by example, i played on teams with a real leader and it made the game easier because you did not want to let him down if he was busting his ass , lesser leaders would not inspire you to put your socks on.
Quote from: magickingdom on April 26, 2010, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2010, 02:18:23 AM
However, the league is over, for better or worse, and Cork won today on merit. Without doubt, they are short odds favourites to win the AI; it's theirs for the taking and if they happen to fall by the wayside, it will be their own fault.
how are cork short odds favourite to win the ai? they beat an absent (yet again) mayo and that makes them good? ill bet you anything this kerry will beat them when it counts in 2010. dont take my word, most cork supporters will tell you that
The short answer I suppose is that the bookies make them so!
I have just googled "all ireland betting odds" and Cork leads the way in the first four I checked, with Kerry and then Tyrone coming in as second and third favourites respectively.
I think that's the way most sports journalists also see it and it has been that way long before the game against Mayo yesterday. Personally, I'd be reluctant to back them against Kerry if they happen to meet in the AI this year but that's because they have failed to beat them in the final twice in recent years. Each time they were heavily backed going into the game and they came up short in both. Kerry were damn lucky to get to the final at all last year as both Longford and Sligo could have beaten them but, once again, they outfoxed Cork. Cork were definitely heavy favourites for that one.
Right now, the langers are the form team and Kerry have lost several key players from the side of last year so I've no problem with the odds being quoted.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 26, 2010, 08:42:51 PM
Logan go home to the Hoganstand website.
A contribution worthy of said forum and a handle worthy of such attitude.
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.
Quote from: Logan on April 27, 2010, 05:47:13 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 27, 2010, 05:47:13 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I can understand people putting Cork ahead of the pack at this stage based on the League, but to say Kerry are 'too far ahead' of everybody else is far-fetched.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 27, 2010, 08:38:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 27, 2010, 05:47:13 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I can understand people putting Cork ahead of the pack at this stage based on the League, but to say Kerry are 'too far ahead' of everybody else is far-fetched.
Agree - at this stage only Cork are standing out (but I suspect the Kerry will still be ahead of Cork come the end of the Summer!)
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 27, 2010, 08:38:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 27, 2010, 05:47:13 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.
Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I can understand people putting Cork ahead of the pack at this stage based on the League, but to say Kerry are 'too far ahead' of everybody else is far-fetched.
Kerry have a proven track record of excellence no other county can match and they are reigning all-ireland champions. That puts them ahead IMO.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I don't think I can agree with you on this, Indy; I've been hooked o n Mayo football for 50 years or more and I've seen it all before too many times. I don't think a spot of coaching anything to anybody will get us anywhere, now or ever.
I also was at the game last Sunday and I saw the mistakes you refer to but spotting them is easy; eradicating them is quite another matter. Would you agree that it was the half forward line that first lost the plot and stood off their markers right from the throw in? Thereafter, they were to be found anywhere around the field except where they were supposed to be. No doubt but they tried their hardest but as often as not got in the way of the backs or tried to bulldoze their way through several opponents and invariably got disposed in the process. The rot started from there and before long most of the others were running around like headless chickens. Only the FB trio and the goalie kept any semblance of sanity; remember Cork only scored one goal and that came leading up to the end when the contest was well and truly over.
Yet, those three lads are amongst the most experienced IC players to be found anywhere and all have had many stellar displays in the past. I don't think any of them could benefit from any sort of coaching at this stage of their careers. They either have the skills required by now or they never will pick them up.
The team gave a very good account of itself, right up to the final. Along the line they had a fair few hard matches and had to dig deep to win most of the ones they won. No shortage of bottle there. They scored more and conceded less than any other team in their division.
I think it's fair to say they wouldn't have gotten to the final if they had been as inept through the preliminary rounds as they were last Sunday. I put it down to the pressure of unrealistic exceptions that most Mayo supporters have.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 27, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I don't think I can agree with you on this, Indy; I've been hooked o n Mayo football for 50 years or more and I've seen it all before too many times. I don't think a spot of coaching anything to anybody will get us anywhere, now or ever.
I also was at the game last Sunday and I saw the mistakes you refer to but spotting them is easy; eradicating them is quite another matter. Would you agree that it was the half forward line that first lost the plot and stood off their markers right from the throw in? Thereafter, they were to be found anywhere around the field except where they were supposed to be. No doubt but they tried their hardest but as often as not got in the way of the backs or tried to bulldoze their way through several opponents and invariably got disposed in the process. The rot started from there and before long most of the others were running around like headless chickens. Only the FB trio and the goalie kept any semblance of sanity; remember Cork only scored one goal and that came leading up to the end when the contest was well and truly over.
Yet, those three lads are amongst the most experienced IC players to be found anywhere and all have had many stellar displays in the past. I don't think any of them could benefit from any sort of coaching at this stage of their careers. They either have the skills required by now or they never will pick them up.
The team gave a very good account of itself, right up to the final. Along the line they had a fair few hard matches and had to dig deep to win most of the ones they won. No shortage of bottle there. They scored more and conceded less than any other team in their division.
I think it's fair to say they wouldn't have gotten to the final if they had been as inept through the preliminary rounds as they were last Sunday. I put it down to the pressure of unrealistic exceptions that most Mayo supporters have.
I couldn't agree there at all Lar. First of all there is very little expectation among Mayo supporters within the county any more. Or interest for that matter. Reading the Western you d think the county is up in a heap with the county team but a lot have moved on. I think we were instructed to anyway. The way the Mac affair was handled more or less told the ordinary supported to mind hid own business.
I detect that some exiles still have a notion that the Boys Of Summer days of Corcoran, O Dowd, Willie Joe and TJ are with us where Mayo football people believe that the next Summer will be theirs.Not so.There was the smallest crowds for this years league I ever saw for home games even though the team was goin well. I had a jar with a few lads that still play club last Sunday evening. None had been at a Mayo game in years ( some had played county underage). To them Team County Mayo is an embarrassment and a failure. And a nusiance to club. Not nice but a common sentiment. Local kids were doin a charity walk while the game was on and did nt have to be forced out. No interest. Unrealistic expectations is another myth that has been stuck on with the hoodoos and other myths to explain what are football failings.
You r correct in identifying the half forward line as being a disaster the last day. But you can be sure they were trying to play to instruction. I m sure they were told to get behind the ball and it didn't work out. 2 of those 3 had great games in the league but in different circumstances. Croke park nothing to do with it. Our earlier games those 2 played well when we were controlling possession and dictating the game. The last day they were on the hind foot. I wouldn't be too harsh on individuals but we need to work on dealing with other teams strengths in big games. Saying that I believe Cork are at least 6-8 points better than we are right now. But the great thing about football is that teams never stay in the one place for long. A team is always either improving or going backwards. If management have the nous this team is still on the upward limb of the curve.
It's only the league and best to get the bad game out of the way.
I did sense previously that getting to a league final would do us more harm than good, but I've changed my view now.
Endemic in Mayo football is that when we win a few games in a row that complacency sets in and that we feel that we just have to stroll onto the field and things will happen for us automatically rather than us making them happen.
Obviously the 'thrown' Cork match a few weeks before added to this disease. From the off there was no conviction or passion to the encouter by the Mayo lads. Hopefully this will be cured come June and without sounding disrespectful to the Sligo lads they will be meeting a very wounded animal now in this Mayo team and could be in for a horrific pasting in the first round.
I don't think we are a bad team and at the same time I don't think we are a great team but we certainly aren't far off the mark and if Johnno gets some luck this year which he is long overdue you would never know...
Quote from: moysider on April 27, 2010, 11:51:20 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 27, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 27, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.
Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.
I don't think I can agree with you on this, Indy; I've been hooked o n Mayo football for 50 years or more and I've seen it all before too many times. I don't think a spot of coaching anything to anybody will get us anywhere, now or ever.
I also was at the game last Sunday and I saw the mistakes you refer to but spotting them is easy; eradicating them is quite another matter. Would you agree that it was the half forward line that first lost the plot and stood off their markers right from the throw in? Thereafter, they were to be found anywhere around the field except where they were supposed to be. No doubt but they tried their hardest but as often as not got in the way of the backs or tried to bulldoze their way through several opponents and invariably got disposed in the process. The rot started from there and before long most of the others were running around like headless chickens. Only the FB trio and the goalie kept any semblance of sanity; remember Cork only scored one goal and that came leading up to the end when the contest was well and truly over.
Yet, those three lads are amongst the most experienced IC players to be found anywhere and all have had many stellar displays in the past. I don't think any of them could benefit from any sort of coaching at this stage of their careers. They either have the skills required by now or they never will pick them up.
The team gave a very good account of itself, right up to the final. Along the line they had a fair few hard matches and had to dig deep to win most of the ones they won. No shortage of bottle there. They scored more and conceded less than any other team in their division.
I think it's fair to say they wouldn't have gotten to the final if they had been as inept through the preliminary rounds as they were last Sunday. I put it down to the pressure of unrealistic exceptions that most Mayo supporters have.
I couldn't agree there at all Lar. First of all there is very little expectation among Mayo supporters within the county any more. Or interest for that matter. Reading the Western you d think the county is up in a heap with the county team but a lot have moved on. I think we were instructed to anyway. The way the Mac affair was handled more or less told the ordinary supported to mind hid own business.
I detect that some exiles still have a notion that the Boys Of Summer days of Corcoran, O Dowd, Willie Joe and TJ are with us where Mayo football people believe that the next Summer will be theirs.Not so.There was the smallest crowds for this years league I ever saw for home games even though the team was goin well. I had a jar with a few lads that still play club last Sunday evening. None had been at a Mayo game in years ( some had played county underage). To them Team County Mayo is an embarrassment and a failure. And a nusiance to club. Not nice but a common sentiment. Local kids were doin a charity walk while the game was on and did nt have to be forced out. No interest. Unrealistic expectations is another myth that has been stuck on with the hoodoos and other myths to explain what are football failings.
You r correct in identifying the half forward line as being a disaster the last day. But you can be sure they were trying to play to instruction. I m sure they were told to get behind the ball and it didn't work out. 2 of those 3 had great games in the league but in different circumstances. Croke park nothing to do with it. Our earlier games those 2 played well when we were controlling possession and dictating the game. The last day they were on the hind foot. I wouldn't be too harsh on individuals but we need to work on dealing with other teams strengths in big games. Saying that I believe Cork are at least 6-8 points better than we are right now. But the great thing about football is that teams never stay in the one place for long. A team is always either improving or going backwards. If management have the nous this team is still on the upward limb of the curve.
As Lar as pointed out it wasn't the lesser experienced lads who lost their way on Sunday, it was the senior players who in the main have played in Croke park on average once a year since their senior careers started and most played there at minor level. Surely, these lads can change a gameplan if they can see things are not working out, like with the half forward line in the first half, they must have the experience and confidence in their own decision making, to do this on the field. If they are waiting for the manager to point these things out to them, well we really are goosed. The will to win has to superceed everything else and it seemed it was lacking on Sunday, which going on previous games was a suprise. Some players relish these big occasions and the big stage and some go and hide. This trait can not be trained or coached by managers. We have in my opinion, been lacking leaders on the pitch for a while now, leadership shown by the like Benny Coulter and Mc Donnell from the first game. We need to also develop a bit of a harder edge, we were turned over in the tackle way too easily and it was impossible to count how many times the player in possesion was isolated under the Cusack stand during the game. As for our expectations going into the game, the least we could expect was players giving it all for the cause and regardless of the result, would have sufficed. Finally we didn't have one mark in the game going by my recolation, if we can't win primary possession, it's up hill all the way.
It's only April after all. Mayo could still shape up in the championship. Cork probably deserve an all-Ireland but they could just as easily freeze on the big day as they have done in the past. Nobody knows anything in April anyway.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 27, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
I don't think I can agree with you on this, Indy; I've been hooked o n Mayo football for 50 years or more and I've seen it all before too many times. I don't think a spot of coaching anything to anybody will get us anywhere, now or ever.
I also was at the game last Sunday and I saw the mistakes you refer to but spotting them is easy; eradicating them is quite another matter. Would you agree that it was the half forward line that first lost the plot and stood off their markers right from the throw in? Thereafter, they were to be found anywhere around the field except where they were supposed to be. No doubt but they tried their hardest but as often as not got in the way of the backs or tried to bulldoze their way through several opponents and invariably got disposed in the process. The rot started from there and before long most of the others were running around like headless chickens. Only the FB trio and the goalie kept any semblance of sanity; remember Cork only scored one goal and that came leading up to the end when the contest was well and truly over.
I'd agree with that. If I was to pick one thing on which everything else collapsed, it was discipline.
Especially in the 2nd half when Mayo should have pegged Cork back from 5 to 2 points behind.
If only your more talented players had the mettle of one your less talented players, O'Malley.
You have plenty of well coached talented technical players, I'd say it would be a perfect management scenario for Micko. Build the helicopter pad and He will surely come.
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2010, 06:28:16 PM
If only your more talented players had the mettle of one your less talented players, O'Malley.
shoulder into the chest when match lost is only good to impress the barstool fools back in newport and mulranny
Not the point I was making. Talented players show their mettle in other ways. Not by throwing away point chance after point chance when only 5 behind and standing down.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on April 28, 2010, 01:10:05 PM
As Lar as pointed out it wasn't the lesser experienced lads who lost their way on Sunday, it was the senior players who in the main have played in Croke park on average once a year since their senior careers started and most played there at minor level. Surely, these lads can change a gameplan if they can see things are not working out, like with the half forward line in the first half, they must have the experience and confidence in their own decision making, to do this on the field. If they are waiting for the manager to point these things out to them, well we really are goosed. The will to win has to superceed everything else and it seemed it was lacking on Sunday, which going on previous games was a suprise. Some players relish these big occasions and the big stage and some go and hide. This trait can not be trained or coached by managers. We have in my opinion, been lacking leaders on the pitch for a while now, leadership shown by the like Benny Coulter and Mc Donnell from the first game. We need to also develop a bit of a harder edge, we were turned over in the tackle way too easily and it was impossible to count how many times the player in possesion was isolated under the Cusack stand during the game. As for our expectations going into the game, the least we could expect was players giving it all for the cause and regardless of the result, would have sufficed. Finally we didn't have one mark in the game going by my recolation, if we can't win primary possession, it's up hill all the way.
That's very much the way I see things also.
This is what Liam Hayes had to say in last Sunday's Tribune;
In this extract he is referring to the Mayo team: (The emphasis is mine.)
Their excellent and impressive work-rate through February and March has brought Mayo to this final, and the same level of industry from all of their forwards is central to Mayo claiming the league title, and thereafter doing what they wish with it. Even in the hiccup at home to Dublin, Mayo were the better team and the dominant team throughout the field for long periods, and that defeat did not slow them down very much, if at all.
Here, he is referring to the Mortimers and Alan Dillon.
The work-rate and self-belief has remained intact from round one right until now. All they have to do now is put the finishing touch to an almost perfect league campaign, and if Aidan O'Shea can put down a marker for the months ahead with an 'eight-out-of-10' or 'nine-out-of-10' performance, then it's likely that Alan Dillon and Trevor and Conor Mortimer will also respond today, and ultimately look to close out their careers with a handful of performances in Croke Park that they will be happy to eventually take into retirement with them.
He goes further:
Today, these three Mayo forwards are definitely entering 'The Last-Chance Saloon' and whether they remain there for two or three happy years depends entirely on their own self-belief and personal ambition.
They will always be happy to take their lead in a game from young O'Shea but the truth is that these three men have to be true leaders on the field if John O'Mahony is going to get his Mayo team anywhere near an All Ireland title. Now, in my eyes anyway, the same applies to all the 'vets that are currently on the panel.
I first became worried about the mental fragility of those players when I saw them in action against Meath in the QF last year.
On the morning of the quarter final against Meath, he wrote something like Mayo were arriving in town to avenge the perceived wrongs of '96, whereas Meath were going out to win an All Ireland Quarter Final.
If I remember rightly, the hopes were pinned that day on Aiden O'Shea blossoming into another Kieran Donaghy. It was also the day I began to feel that all the blame shouldn't be placed on John O'Mahony.
Maybe it's just me, but Croke Park on big days holds too many traumatic memories for most of the lads who played there in '04 and '06.
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2010, 10:18:54 PM
Not the point I was making. Talented players show their mettle in other ways. Not by throwing away point chance after point chance when only 5 behind and standing down.
point lost on me o malley a bad example just look what hisn man scored from play sunday mettle or no mettle
Quote from: spuds on April 28, 2010, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2010, 10:18:54 PM
Not the point I was making. Talented players show their mettle in other ways. Not by throwing away point chance after point chance when only 5 behind and standing down.
point lost on me o malley a bad example just look what hisn man scored from play sunday mettle or no mettle
I doubt there is a corner back anywhere that would have done any better with the silver service Goulding got all day long. The floodgates had opened when he got most of them.
Likes of Trevor flittering ball after ball away before we settled. Parsons and McGarrity obsessed with trying to catch clean against stronger men who were happy to break ball to colleagues. They are 2 more pertinent reasons why we collapsed the last day Than a Cork corner forward knocking over a few points when drip fed ball from a dominant middle third.
For me one of the most depressing things I ve seen in Mayo displays in recent years is the trying for the clean catch. If one of our lads makes 2 good catches he gets 8/10 in the locals even though the other 8 was broken away from him and gobbled up by support like last Sunday. Good midfielders prevent the opposition from getting the ball without playing for the spectacular. Forget about marking the ball. Dirty ball is as important as a nice clean catch. You can bet Tyrone wont be bothered about catching marks this summer. But the opposition will catch **** all against them either.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 28, 2010, 11:01:48 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on April 28, 2010, 01:10:05 PM
As Lar as pointed out it wasn't the lesser experienced lads who lost their way on Sunday, it was the senior players who in the main have played in Croke park on average once a year since their senior careers started and most played there at minor level. Surely, these lads can change a gameplan if they can see things are not working out, like with the half forward line in the first half, they must have the experience and confidence in their own decision making, to do this on the field. If they are waiting for the manager to point these things out to them, well we really are goosed. The will to win has to superceed everything else and it seemed it was lacking on Sunday, which going on previous games was a suprise. Some players relish these big occasions and the big stage and some go and hide. This trait can not be trained or coached by managers. We have in my opinion, been lacking leaders on the pitch for a while now, leadership shown by the like Benny Coulter and Mc Donnell from the first game. We need to also develop a bit of a harder edge, we were turned over in the tackle way too easily and it was impossible to count how many times the player in possesion was isolated under the Cusack stand during the game. As for our expectations going into the game, the least we could expect was players giving it all for the cause and regardless of the result, would have sufficed. Finally we didn't have one mark in the game going by my recolation, if we can't win primary possession, it's up hill all the way.
That's very much the way I see things also.
This is what Liam Hayes had to say in last Sunday's Tribune;
In this extract he is referring to the Mayo team: (The emphasis is mine.)
Their excellent and impressive work-rate through February and March has brought Mayo to this final, and the same level of industry from all of their forwards is central to Mayo claiming the league title, and thereafter doing what they wish with it. Even in the hiccup at home to Dublin, Mayo were the better team and the dominant team throughout the field for long periods, and that defeat did not slow them down very much, if at all.
Here, he is referring to the Mortimers and Alan Dillon.
The work-rate and self-belief has remained intact from round one right until now. All they have to do now is put the finishing touch to an almost perfect league campaign, and if Aidan O'Shea can put down a marker for the months ahead with an 'eight-out-of-10' or 'nine-out-of-10' performance, then it's likely that Alan Dillon and Trevor and Conor Mortimer will also respond today, and ultimately look to close out their careers with a handful of performances in Croke Park that they will be happy to eventually take into retirement with them.
He goes further:
Today, these three Mayo forwards are definitely entering 'The Last-Chance Saloon' and whether they remain there for two or three happy years depends entirely on their own self-belief and personal ambition. They will always be happy to take their lead in a game from young O'Shea but the truth is that these three men have to be true leaders on the field if John O'Mahony is going to get his Mayo team anywhere near an All Ireland title.
Now, in my eyes anyway, the same applies to all the 'vets that are currently on the panel.
I first became worried about the mental fragility of those players when I saw them in action against Meath in the QF last year.
On the morning of the quarter final against Meath, he wrote something like Mayo were arriving in town to avenge the perceived wrongs of '96, whereas Meath were going out to win an All Ireland Quarter Final.
If I remember rightly, the hopes were pinned that day on Aiden O'Shea blossoming into another Kieran Donaghy. It was also the day I began to feel that all the blame shouldn't be placed on John O'Mahony.
Maybe it's just me, but Croke Park on big days holds too many traumatic memories for most of the lads who played there in '04 and '06.
I'm sure it's not you just you Lar but I dont believe in it for a second. If that were the case we might as well get rid of everybody that played against Meath last August and Cork last Sunday as well. They were fairly traumitised as well I know.
Look, no player gets to the standard these lads play at without both a physical and mental toughness. These lads are not teenage girls with spots reluctant to go to the debs.
Now here's the thing. I posted already that I wasn't surprised by anything that happened last Sunday. How could anybody be? Most Mayo players played to type. Those that stank the place out have been making the same mistakes for some time. And they have been doing it in McHale Park too. It s not a Croke Park thing. As I ve said just above, Trevor hoofing aimless ball ( in McHale Park alone this Spring Trevor wasted territorial possession where a bit of composure would have put others in for handy points, and a couple of goals - of course these things don t get mentioned when we win), Parsons being lackadaisical and getting his pocket picked (that has happened outside Croke Park as well), midfield jumpers naively trying to catch every ball (remember Kevin Hughes breaking every kickout from Ronan last year in Castlebar, but Ronan would still be going for the clean one every time if they were there yet). Aidan O Sé had a poor enough league but I would not be harsh on him. The usual soft explanation was lack of confidance. The real reason was lack of guidance and coaching. It is no coincidence that our best performers last Sunday were the lads who were steadiest all league. Barrett. SOS. McL.
Usually in the league and against teams that are a lot poorer than us these things dont hurt because the opposition cant keep the ball themselves. But we bring this stuff into serious games in Croke park and carnage can be the only outcome. Psychology wont solve what are basic basic footballing failings. I m getting annoyed now but somebody needs to put an end to piseogs fairly quick. Instead of trying to brainwash players about Croke Park try and COACH BAD HABITS OUT OF THEM. Or get rid. This management had no conscience getting rid of others with bad habits ( had to get that dig in). Because if Trevor and Parsons dont stop doing what they re doing, they and we are all wasting our time. And probably end up feeling let down themselves. Now this may sound callous but a way of improving the last day would be to review the tape and drop the lads that made the most mistakes. The proviso is of course that their replacements would make less. No guarantee of that. But something must be done instead of hiring shaman. It s a football, not a spiritual problem. Now I m not blaming Trevor for our defeat the last day. I ve posted before how when he does crazy things the team melts. Looking back at my texts last Sunday I sent 'our captain far too wild. He s like a 16th man for Cork'. I sent that at 16:34 and I could have sent it a lot earlier. And f*** it, I like Trevor and its hard to even consider dropping him. I actually think that
he has been let down by it all. Great attitude and talent but every manager he ever had, probably just told him to go out and 'unleash hell'. He still plays like a kid. He should not be happy about this. He deserved better.
But this management cant hide away from the fact that talking wont solve anything. If they cant knock the silly stuff out of these lads before the Championship it s going to be more of the same. And let nobody say its about form. This is stuff that is endemic in players games at this stage but can still be addressed if anybody has the will and gets somebody in that knows what they re doing. And if players cant see what they re doing wrong and correct it then.... they have to be dropped. FFS our best 3 players the last day were novices at this level.
very easy blame trevor who tries to do too much , no pont at the age of 30 to expect him to change very much.
I though A O sé Was excellent on sunday won every ball that cam near him despite cork sending on a man marker to 'do a job' on him its only because of luck we did not have a serious incident in the 1st half when O sullivan pushed him into the post/side netting .
I actually having watched the game a few times now believe there is not nearly as much as we think between these 2 sides. mayo had several potentiall game chageing goal chances denied in the first half
but the 1st thing we need to do is grow up accept defeat as a normal part of sport and stop believing we have a terminal disease and are cursed from birth
Watched the game a couple of times since I got home Sunday evening. After reviewing it the game was basically lost in the diamond. 6,8,9,11. Every ball that went into the Cork forwards came from a loose man in this area. The full back line looked ok. There wasn't a lot they could do with most scores because of the brilliant ball the cork forwards were getting. I counted 6 balls McGarrity lost in the second half, 4 which led to Cork scores. The cork defence flooded out our forwards. There were 3 men on any man who got his hands on the ball. Hard to get yourself out of that! :'
Quote from: moysider on April 29, 2010, 12:22:00 AM
I'm sure it's not you just you Lar but I dont believe in it for a second. If that were the case we might as well get rid of everybody that played against Meath last August and Cork last Sunday as well. They were fairly traumitised as well I know.
Look, no player gets to the standard these lads play at without both a physical and mental toughness. These lads are not teenage girls with spots reluctant to go to the debs.
Now here's the thing. I posted already that I wasn't surprised by anything that happened last Sunday. How could anybody be? Most Mayo players played to type. Those that stank the place out have been making the same mistakes for some time. And they have been doing it in McHale Park too. It s not a Croke Park thing. As I ve said just above, Trevor hoofing aimless ball ( in McHale Park alone this Spring Trevor wasted territorial possession where a bit of composure would have put others in for handy points, and a couple of goals - of course these things don t get mentioned when we win), Parsons being lackadaisical and getting his pocket picked (that has happened outside Croke Park as well), midfield jumpers naively trying to catch every ball (remember Kevin Hughes breaking every kickout from Ronan last year in Castlebar, but Ronan would still be going for the clean one every time if they were there yet). Aidan O Sé had a poor enough league but I would not be harsh on him. The usual soft explanation was lack of confidance. The real reason was lack of guidance and coaching. It is no coincidence that our best performers last Sunday were the lads who were steadiest all league. Barrett. SOS. McL.
Usually in the league and against teams that are a lot poorer than us these things dont hurt because the opposition cant keep the ball themselves. But we bring this stuff into serious games in Croke park and carnage can be the only outcome. Psychology wont solve what are basic basic footballing failings. I m getting annoyed now but somebody needs to put an end to piseogs fairly quick. Instead of trying to brainwash players about Croke Park try and COACH BAD HABITS OUT OF THEM. Or get rid. This management had no conscience getting rid of others with bad habits ( had to get that dig in). Because if Trevor and Parsons dont stop doing what they re doing, they and we are all wasting our time. And probably end up feeling let down themselves. Now this may sound callous but a way of improving the last day would be to review the tape and drop the lads that made the most mistakes. The proviso is of course that their replacements would make less. No guarantee of that. But something must be done instead of hiring shaman. It s a football, not a spiritual problem. Now I m not blaming Trevor for our defeat the last day. I ve posted before how when he does crazy things the team melts. Looking back at my texts last Sunday I sent 'our captain far too wild. He s like a 16th man for Cork'. I sent that at 16:34 and I could have sent it a lot earlier. And f*** it, I like Trevor and its hard to even consider dropping him. I actually think that he has been let down by it all. Great attitude and talent but every manager he ever had, probably just told him to go out and 'unleash hell'. He still plays like a kid. He should not be happy about this. He deserved better.
But this management cant hide away from the fact that talking wont solve anything. If they cant knock the silly stuff out of these lads before the Championship it s going to be more of the same. And let nobody say its about form. This is stuff that is endemic in players games at this stage but can still be addressed if anybody has the will and gets somebody in that knows what they re doing. And if players cant see what they re doing wrong and correct it then.... they have to be dropped. FFS our best 3 players the last day were novices at this level.
I accept your frustration, Moysider, I ought to as I've been left shattered year after years for even longer than you. Like you,I've been following the green and red through bad times and worse since childhood and you'll no doubt agree that it gets harder year after year to watch us fall by the wayside, as we invariably do.
I also accept that all Mayo heads here are well- balanced, sensible and mature individuals who from time to time may discuss the carry on of an equally well-balanced, sensible and mature football manager and his team. Naturally, enough since the said team happens to be the Mayo one, it follows that all of them, down to the bleddy bagman, are also endowed with the same sterling qualities.
Which is why I see nothing wrong with us having three active threads at the moment, all of them more or less devoted to the said carry on of the said manager and the said Mayo team!
Apart from that, I think we are all perfectly normal; it's just a case of, "Well, I know I used to be a werewolf, but I'm alright nooooooow."
However, I like having the likes of Indiana, Zulu and new arrival, Logan, about; they can think outside the box, as it were, and maybe it's not a bad thing to know what outsiders think of us from time to time. I could say the same about the crafty Meath hoor who lurks in the background and who's quick to get his retaliation in first -as all nasty Meath men tend to do and I see he has picked up a few langer traits as well.
A blasted spoilsport, if ever there was one!
The same goes for messrs, O'Rourke, Hayes and Bernie Flynn. All three of them are in the Hardy mould and they all write about us a lot. They all have a few Celtic Crosses to boot. They've been there and they know what it takes to cross the finishing line on the third Sunday of September.
Okay, I posted Liam Hayes preview of the Cork game. He called it wrong but he did gave an insightful analysis of the cause of Mayo's Croke Park blues. Remember he did write:
Their excellent and impressive work-rate through February and March has brought Mayo to this final.
Given that we scored more and conceded less than any other side in Div 1, I go along with him there.
This is part of what Flynn had to say on Monday in the Mirror:
I could not let this week go by without trying to analyse exactly what is going wrong with Mayo.
Yet, just as they did against Meath last year and like they have done umpteen times against Kerry, they fell flat on their faces. The point I am coming to is, there is a serious fundamental problem with the psyche of the Mayo footballer when he walks out onto the pitch in Croke Park.
I believe they have good players in their backline and midfield, but the pressure that's been exerted by the poor display of their forwards is something the backline just cannot handle.
In the last 25 minutes against Meath last year their backs were under so much pressure because the ball was not sticking at the other end.
With the exception of Conor Mortimer last Sunday, the effort of the forwards in going for the ball or trying to win primary possession, displayed an awful attitude. Their lack of physicality in the tackle was a serious worry for me.
Mayo could turn around and beat Sligo in six weeks time with a good performance and I have no doubt that there is a good performance in them in Connacht.
But when they get to Croke Park, they look like a fish out of water. Everyone is looking for someone to do it. It seems they don't have the confidence to execute the pass or the finish.
John O'Mahony said afterwards that his players don't carry the burden of what's happened in Mayo for the last 40 or 50 years, but it seems to me that the years of under- achievement is actually playing on their minds.
There can be no other excuse.
Their second half display against Meath in last year's All Ireland quarter-final was atrocious. Their performance for the whole match against Cork was inept.
Cork took their foot off the pedal and still won easily.
Given that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, I honestly don't think any coach in Ireland could lessen the fears of the older lads- and no head shrink can do it either.
I just pray that the younger lads have not become infected with the same malaise.
Whatever the cause, the problem is increasing; first it seemed to be only Kerry in an All Ireland; then it became Meath in a QF and now it's gotten to facing the langers in the league!
Janey; at this rate if Sligo ever gets us in Croker, Sligonian will be crowing for the next 50 years!
QuoteSligonian will be crowing for the next 50 years!
It does appear that Mayo have an amount of begrudgers as neighbours.
That's a sign of some standing.
Quote from: Main Street on April 29, 2010, 02:05:10 PM
QuoteSligonian will be crowing for the next 50 years!
It does appear that Mayo have an amount of begrudgers as neighbours.
That's a sign of some standing.
Hmmm, wouldnt mind getting mayo in Croke Park later in the yr, wouldnt mind at all ;)
If we beat mayo in the Markievicz Park this yr, i certainly wont be crowing about it, its not like we'd be beating Kerry, and anyways it would count for nothing if we didnt go on and at least win Connacht. Therell be no trophy handed out on June 5th.
As for begrudging mayo, theres a very good reason for that and nothing to do with across the white line..
Quick Question for you Sligonian..
If it was Cork v Sligo & Antrim V Mayo last weekend instead how do you think it would have fared?
Quote from: ross4life on April 29, 2010, 05:00:41 PM
Quick Question for you Sligonian..
If it was Cork v Sligo & Antrim V Mayo last weekend instead how do you think it would have fared?
Pointless question tbh, but i feel Sligo would of given Cork a better challenge. Some of mayos players didnt even look intercounty standard to me, but that was last Sunday, im sure theyll step it up against us. Like mayo must be better than that.
I think everyones getting carried with last weekend in both ways, the doom and gloom in mayo and the hype in Sligo is crazy at the min. I dont mind people having belief but we are going to have to be very good against mayo to beat them. i dont think mayo will play as bad as last sunday against us. Football is on the day, we have the consistency now so we just have to trust ourselves to perform. I actually beileve on paper weve a better team, and hopefully we'll prove it this summer.
I have to laugh at people who say last weekends mayo result was bad for Sligo, eh no it wasnt, there is huge pressure on that squad and management now, and if they dont beat us theyll probably be linched and it could be JOM last hurrah, that is pressure. We won div3, and anything else is a bonus, so feck all pressure there and most pundits will tip mayo to win so theyll be favourites and mayofans will still expect to leave the Park with a win. Nothing new but no one knows the future, so we can all speculate all we want but really it doesnt make a difference.
Well IMO Sligo would have got the same beating Mayo got & Mayo would have given Antrim the same beating, & instead everyone wouldn't give Sligo a hope in Hell of beating Mayo!
But in Truth they have a good Chance but Mayo are still Favorites
I don't honestly know how the game v Sligo will go. I'm not expecting anything from any Mayo team ever again.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 29, 2010, 08:11:33 PM
I don't honestly know how the game v Sligo will go. I'm not expecting anything from any Mayo team ever again.
Most Mayo Fan's say that! then they beat Galway & expectations are sky high again
To be honest I m looking forward to the Sligo match big time. This is what the football year is all about. I take Sligonians point about Mayo being under pressure but that pressure would be there anyway. It always is in championship. Nobody was gettin excited about that league final and the way it turned out has dampened expectations around here. So if we had performed against Cork there would be high hopes for the Summer and we could easily have crashed and burned in Markievicz. Now I dunno. A lot depends on how the morale holds up after that beating. If the management lose the players alright its curtains. But they could regroup well and then it s game on. That is the most likely thing to happen, footballers are good at getting back on the bike. Every Mayo player that togs that day will be expected to burst a gut. Some will be playing for their careers. If we lose in Sligo then its hard to see us recovering. Not making any prediction at this stage. We ll see what shape our team takes over the next few weeks. It might be worthwhile to take in a challenge match or 2.
You Guys really need a Sligo v Mayo Thread ;)
Nobody in Mayo will be expecting much this year but if Sligo are expecting a handy one because of the league final then they will be surprised. I would imagine that there will be a few changes to how they are prepared for games from now on and that some players will see the bench more than they were ever used to seeing it.Sligonian says Sligo are in better shape and they seem to be, however they have connaught "mental issues" the same as Mayo have "AIF ISSUES". Funny then how sligo have no fear of anyone in Croke Park, there must be a bit of a thing there despite what jom says.