http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm
I assume this is a new rule, otherwise Ronaldo wouldn't have got too much game time in Europe over the past few years
Between Stevie G & Ronaldo, they are very fortunate to have not got suspended in the past if this is now the case
forgot about Gerrard too alright. LEt's face it, i game between an Italian and Spanish team would get some suspensions out of it.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 28, 2009, 12:32:34 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm
I assume this is a new rule, otherwise Ronaldo wouldn't have got too much game time in Europe over the past few years
Firstly, this is good news if it signals a genuine attempt by UEFA to rid soccer of this curse. Slightly unfortunate for Eduardo that he'll be the first to suffer but no sympathy.
Secondly - you let yourself down by singling out one player, albeit a prime example. I'm sure whatever team you follow they have a few divers in their midst.
It is good to try and stamp this out but lets hope that it is applied to all games and not just certain games where the media grasp onto it as well as opposition players going out about it
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 28, 2009, 12:32:34 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm
I assume this is a new rule, otherwise Ronaldo wouldn't have got too much game time in Europe over the past few years
You assume wrongly:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/6993901.stm
Why then has it been applied in this case, rather than countless others? Does it require a complaint to do so?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 28, 2009, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 28, 2009, 12:32:34 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm
I assume this is a new rule, otherwise Ronaldo wouldn't have got too much game time in Europe over the past few years
Firstly, this is good news if it signals a genuine attempt by UEFA to rid soccer of this curse. Slightly unfortunate for Eduardo that he'll be the first to suffer but no sympathy.
Secondly - you let yourself down by singling out one player, albeit a prime example. I'm sure whatever team you follow they have a few divers in their midst.
[/b]
they probably do, but playing in the lower leagues i don't see whether they dive or not !!
What are the odds
Wenger
a. Applauds UEFA and will cooperate fully with UEFA in their (feeble) attempts to clean up club sanctioned cheating.
or
b. Why pick on us for exclusive scrutiny?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 28, 2009, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 28, 2009, 12:32:34 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm
I assume this is a new rule, otherwise Ronaldo wouldn't have got too much game time in Europe over the past few years
Firstly, this is good news if it signals a genuine attempt by UEFA to rid soccer of this curse. Slightly unfortunate for Eduardo that he'll be the first to suffer but no sympathy.
Secondly - you let yourself down by singling out one player, albeit a prime example. I'm sure whatever team you follow they have a few divers in their midst.
True - Owen is like a direct swap for Ronaldo in this instance.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 28, 2009, 12:38:13 PM
forgot about Gerrard too alright. LEt's face it, i game between an Italian and Spanish team would get some suspensions out of it.
maybe 10-15 years ago i'd agree , but english clubs and players are getting as bad - not all players but quite a lot.
The English players are not as good at it though. The Spanish/Italians are taught it from a young age according to what I hear. That said Damian Duff is one of the "best" I've seen.
glad to hear it. its a start in trying to rid the game of this curse.
however will uefa have the balls to charge a big name i.e. ronaldo when he dives next?
Mickey Harte's praying they don't bring these sanctions into the GAA!
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 01:20:29 PM
What are the odds
Wenger
a. Applauds UEFA and will cooperate fully with UEFA in their (feeble) attempts to clean up club sanctioned cheating.
or
b. Why pick on us for exclusive scrutiny?
He'd be correct in doing so. I'm not going to defend Eduardo's actions but the decision to single him out is ridiculous, how many others have been guilty of diving in recent seasons but have gone unpunished? If UEFA had made a statement at the beginning of the season that they were implementing a crackdown on this sort of thing then fair enough, but instead they have reacted to the complaints of sore losers and the over reaction of the british media. Why would the press decide to turn Eduardo into some sort of hate figure? Who do England play in there next game?
Quote from: Will Hunting on August 28, 2009, 02:07:57 PM
Mickey Harte's praying they don't bring these sanctions into the GAA!
was actually thinking that eduardo would fit right in with mickeys manky mob ! ! !
:D
only joking tyronies !
Sanctimonious BS from UEFA. Imagine if poor Stevie G or Rooney were singled out for their dives, there be a 20 page thread by now.
If this is the start of a proper campaign I will applaud UEFA, they have to start somewhere but I won't hold my breath.
So for Wenger and Wengerites
it's
Why pick on us?
For elevation of life above the boring and predictable, let's not look to Arsenal for inspiration on that one.
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 01:20:29 PM
What are the odds
Wenger
a. Applauds UEFA and will cooperate fully with UEFA in their (feeble) attempts to clean up club sanctioned cheating.
or
b. Why pick on us for exclusive scrutiny?
Doesnt look like he has chose the first one :D :D
He is one angry frog.......................
Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger has accused Uefa of conducting a "witch-hunt" after it charged Eduardo with diving in the Champions League clash with Celtic.
Striker Eduardo appeared to dive to win a penalty last Wednesday and Uefa could ban him for up to two games when its disciplinary body meets on 1 September.
"I find it a complete disgrace and unacceptable," said Wenger.
"It singles out a player to be a cheat and that is not acceptable. We will not accept the way Uefa has treated this."
If Eduardo is suspended he would miss Standard Liege away on 16 September and the home match with Olympiacos on 29 September.
And Wenger added: "I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen again the pictures again, nothing is conclusive.
"It's a witch-hunt that we see and not an objective judgement of a case."
Wenger said the Croat may have taken evasive action in light of the career-threatening broken leg he sustained two seasons ago.
606: DEBATE
It doesn't look like a penalty, neither does it look like a dive to me
Gunner_For_Real
And the Frenchman added that European football's governing body would have difficulty proving the 26-year-old intended to deceive the referee.
"We will defend our player as far as we can because he is not being treated fairly," said Wenger.
"It's funny in football because you can break the legs of players and it doesn't make a debate for anybody.
"I'm the first to say that it doesn't look like a penalty but it's another thing to say that he went down with intent. I wish good luck in proving that having seen the pictures again."
In charging Eduardo, Wenger claimed Uefa had set off down a dangerous path whereby any decision made by an official can be contested after the match.
He said: "There is completely lack of logic in this case. Why? Because people have reacted emotionally.
"This case has been ruled by the media and emotionally by Scotland, by the Scottish FA and by Scottish people working at Uefa.
"I've fought my whole life against cheating and I've seen some obvious cases where Uefa didn't intervene. On and off the pitch things have happened where no action was taken.
"But now the existing rules of football have been changed just for one case so we will from now on challenge every single decision that is made in Europe by the referees.
"This is the first time since I've been in football that the judgement made by the referee is not accepted by the football bodies."
There appeared to be no contact between Eduardo and Celtic goalkeeper Artur Boruc but referee Manuel Gonzalez still gave a penalty midway through the first half.
After Eduardo converted the resulting spot kick, the Gunners went on to win 3-1 at the Emirates Stadium. They won 5-1 on aggregate to secure a spot in the group stages.
Scottish FA chief executive Gordon Smith has called for the Brazil-born Eduardo to be banned over Wednesday's penalty incident at the Emirates.
"Eduardo showed disrespect to the game by his actions," he said.
"We have shown courage to use retrospective punishment when it comes to simulation. I'd urge Uefa to do so.
"Since I came into post I have raised the issue of simulation time and time again - both here in Scotland and with Fifa and Uefa.
"I don't think that I have received enough support in my efforts to eradicate what I believe to be one of the most serious threats to the integrity of football.
"Last night showed exactly why we must take this issue seriously.
"Everything that can be done to stamp it out must be done. Starting right now."
Uefa president Michel Platini believes additional assistant referees behind each goal line would combat diving.
He said: "One day players will give up simulating because refs will see them. I am convinced that you have referees nearby, then you will stop this."
Celtic had travelled to the Emirates 2-0 down from the first leg in Glasgow, when Arsenal had been the better side but had scored with a deflection and an own goal.
The first goal in London, then, was likely to be crucial and Boruc was incensed when Gonzalez pointed to the spot.
"I see no reason why we cannot use technology to assist referees," said Smith.
"We need a serious debate on these issues. Everyone in football has a responsibility to set the right example to our youngsters.
"We can talk all we want about Fair Play campaigns, but taking action would be a much more powerful deterrent and would send the right message to players everywhere."
Celtic midfielder Massimo Donati is another who is keen to see Uefa use video evidence.
"If it is clear on TV, then Uefa must act and ban him," said Donati.
"I think he should get a two-match ban because it wasn't a penalty. I told him that and everyone in the Celtic team told him that."
Donati believes Eduardo should be treated the same way as Lithuania striker Saulius Mikoliunas, who was punished for diving against Scotland at Hampden Park in September 2007.
After that occasion Uefa used video evidence before giving Mikoliunas a two-match ban.
Quote from: Larry Duff on August 28, 2009, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 01:20:29 PM
What are the odds
Wenger
a. Applauds UEFA and will cooperate fully with UEFA in their (feeble) attempts to clean up club sanctioned cheating.
or
b. Why pick on us for exclusive scrutiny?
He'd be correct in doing so. I'm not going to defend Eduardo's actions but the decision to single him out is ridiculous, how many others have been guilty of diving in recent seasons but have gone unpunished? If UEFA had made a statement at the beginning of the season that they were implementing a crackdown on this sort of thing then fair enough, but instead they have reacted to the complaints of sore losers and the over reaction of the british media. Why would the press decide to turn Eduardo into some sort of hate figure? Who do England play in there next game?
Dislike Arsenal, but I'd echo Larry Duff's comments 100%.
Some positive outcome after Eduardo cheating, Platini makes his move.
Meanwhile, Uefa is to experiment during the group stages with having five referees per match in an attempt to combat players' diving to win penalties and to help resolve other issues.
Two extra officials will stand next to each goal, behind the dead-ball line, to spot infringements and Uefa hopes the move will mean less foul play and simulation by players.
The move is also designed to help determine whether the ball has crossed the goal-line when there is doubt.
Uefa president Michel Platini said: "One day players will give up simulating because referees will see them.
"For years players have cheated because the referees were not of a good enough quality.
"I am convinced, with the extra officials, that if you have referees close by it will prevent players from simulating and they will take the right decision.
"I have always said it is better to have more referees than a multiplication of disciplinary procedures or to refer to videos during matches."
The move comes after Arsenal's Eduardo won a penalty in Wednesday's Champions League qualifier against Celtic - even though there looked to be little contact between the striker and keeper Artur Boruc.
At 1st I was gonna say how could anyone argue with the ban, but in fairness there have been some good arguments against it on here. It is unfair on him in particular but if UEFA continue the trend, which they now surely have to or else they will be ridiculed given the high publicity nature of this case, then they there can be no arguments about the ban..
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 28, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Larry Duff on August 28, 2009, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 01:20:29 PM
What are the odds
Wenger
a. Applauds UEFA and will cooperate fully with UEFA in their (feeble) attempts to clean up club sanctioned cheating.
or
b. Why pick on us for exclusive scrutiny?
He'd be correct in doing so. I'm not going to defend Eduardo's actions but the decision to single him out is ridiculous, how many others have been guilty of diving in recent seasons but have gone unpunished? If UEFA had made a statement at the beginning of the season that they were implementing a crackdown on this sort of thing then fair enough, but instead they have reacted to the complaints of sore losers and the over reaction of the british media. Why would the press decide to turn Eduardo into some sort of hate figure? Who do England play in there next game?
Dislike Arsenal, but I'd echo Larry Duff's comments 100%.
Sometimes in life you reach the last straw.
It is incidental that it happened to Arsenal.
Eduardo made a mockery of the game, the ethics of sport and an affront to any decent arsenal club member.
Save me from the why us and not them nonsense.
Even a blind bat would be aware that there are cheats elsewhere, permeating the game with the top clubs..
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 03:59:05 PM
So for Wenger and Wengerites
it's
Why pick on us?
For elevation of life above the boring and predictable, let's not look to Arsenal for inspiration on that one.
Almost as predictable as your hypocrisy, you must be really pissed off with yourself
Here's a quote from the Alan O'Connor thread
QuoteI thought Spillane's ranting and raving about Mulligan supposed cheating for the second yellow incident were a disgrace.
Somehow it pees me off no end when the pundits single out a player and hammer him because they are on a mission from God in the pundits chair. In the last game some Mayo player got loudly slagged off in a very sly and vicious manner.
I dont think he will ba banned...If you looked at every CL game during this week alone i'm sure you could find at least 2-3 examples where players went down to con the referee.
It's all media hype because Arsenal have to go to OT on Saturday. To put pressure on the referee.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 28, 2009, 05:35:26 PM
It's all media hype because Arsenal have to go to OT on Saturday. To put pressure on the referee.
:D :D
Yep, UEFA are in on this as well ::)
Well you said it!
I might have more sympathy for Wenger if he admitted Eduardo dived but demanded to know why he was being singled out. As it is, he's saying Eduardo didn't dive or that he didn't do it deliberately which is nonsense.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 28, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 03:59:05 PM
So for Wenger and Wengerites
it's
Why pick on us?
For elevation of life above the boring and predictable, let's not look to Arsenal for inspiration on that one.
Almost as predictable as your hypocrisy, you must be really pissed off with yourself
Here's a quote from the Alan O'Connor thread
QuoteI thought Spillane's ranting and raving about Mulligan supposed cheating for the second yellow incident were a disgrace.
Somehow it pees me off no end when the pundits single out a player and hammer him because they are on a mission from God in the pundits chair. In the last game some Mayo player got loudly slagged off in a very sly and vicious manner.
;D
You are completly off your rocking horse Dinny.
Firstly Mulligan was loudly and quite wrongly accused by Spillane of diving/cheating when the Cork player made contact with him, which got him sent off.
Secondly the Mayo player I was referring to, was loudly slagged in a personal sly way by Spillane for not performing after he came on as a sub.
What possible connection has the ethos of GAA sport got to do with Eduardo cheating?
What possible contradiction does my opinion on Spillane have with anything i have written on this thread?
What has it to with efforts to sanction such cheats, as was perfectly demonstrated by Eduardo, and squash it out of the game as it is played at this level.
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 28, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 28, 2009, 03:59:05 PM
So for Wenger and Wengerites
it's
Why pick on us?
For elevation of life above the boring and predictable, let's not look to Arsenal for inspiration on that one.
Almost as predictable as your hypocrisy, you must be really pissed off with yourself
Here's a quote from the Alan O'Connor thread
QuoteI thought Spillane's ranting and raving about Mulligan supposed cheating for the second yellow incident were a disgrace.
Somehow it pees me off no end when the pundits single out a player and hammer him because they are on a mission from God in the pundits chair. In the last game some Mayo player got loudly slagged off in a very sly and vicious manner.
;D
You are completly off your rocking horse Dinny.
Firstly Mulligan was loudly and quite wrongly accused by Spillane of diving/cheating when the Cork player made contact with him, which got him sent off.
Secondly the Mayo player I was referring to, was loudly slagged in a personal sly way by Spillane for not performing after he came on as a sub.
What possible connection has the ethos of GAA sport got to do with Eduardo cheating?
What possible contradiction does my opinion on Spillane have with anything i have written on this thread?
What has it to with efforts to sanction such cheats, as was perfectly demonstrated by Eduardo, and squash it out of the game as it is played at this level.
Quite right you cannot bring another sport into this it has got nothing to do with it. Different laws, different structures.
On the eduardo case, I think he was more antcipating contact and made he most of it, but was also terrified that Boruc may make contact with his leg. What he did was wrong but is nothing compared to a similar case a few years back of Alberto Gilardino for AC Milan, which he wasn't disciplined for, albeit not getting a penalty for it, but still attempting to deceive the officials.(against Celtic as well no less.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W00d3yJKl4
Quote from: full back on August 28, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
And Wenger added: "I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen again the pictures again, nothing is conclusive.
Surely then Arsene you'd agree that if there was no intent and that Eduardo had no desire to cheat he would have gone to the referee after the incident and admitted that it wasn't a penalty and that he wasn't looking for one ::)
Quote from: charlie linkbox on August 28, 2009, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: full back on August 28, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
And Wenger added: "I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen again the pictures again, nothing is conclusive.
Surely then Arsene you'd agree that if there was no intent and that Eduardo had no desire to cheat he would have gone to the referee after the incident and admitted that it wasn't a penalty and that he wasn't looking for one ::)
Indeed or deliberately missed the penalty if the referee was not swayed by his sportsmanlike argument.
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 28, 2009, 06:20:13 PM
On the eduardo case, I think he was more antcipating contact and made he most of it, but was also terrified that Boruc may make contact with his leg.
If this is true, he shouldn't be back playing as he is suffering from some manner of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Quote from: charlie linkbox on August 28, 2009, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: full back on August 28, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
And Wenger added: "I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen again the pictures again, nothing is conclusive.
Surely then Arsene you'd agree that if there was no intent and that Eduardo had no desire to cheat he would have gone to the referee after the incident and admitted that it wasn't a penalty and that he wasn't looking for one ::)
Only decent players like Robbie Fowler for example would do that :)
QuoteWhat possible connection has the ethos of GAA sport got to do with Eduardo cheating?
Cheating is cheating I don't categorise by sport and just because you believe Mulligan didn't dive doesn't make it any different, just like Giles on Eduardo the other night Spillane and O'Rourke accused Mulligan of cheating, just like Mulligan Eduardo is been singled out by pundits, in a consistant world surely this should piss you off but then on one hand you're a Tyrone fan and the other a Celtic fan and I would question your ability to be impartial.
QuoteWhat possible contradiction does my opinion on Spillane have with anything i have written on this thread?
Where is your condemnation of the armchair pundits Giles, he was as bad as Spillane and was an absolute thug on the pitch but yet you find nothing wrong in him singling out Eduardo like Spillane did Mulligan.
Quote
What has it to with efforts to sanction such cheats, as was perfectly demonstrated by Eduardo, and squash it out of the game as it is played at this level.
Nothing but where is the condemnation of players faking injuries, pretending goals weren't scored and playing on as normal, surely that is any even worse form of cheating and completely against the ethos and spirit of any game.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 28, 2009, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: charlie linkbox on August 28, 2009, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: full back on August 28, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
And Wenger added: "I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen again the pictures again, nothing is conclusive.
Surely then Arsene you'd agree that if there was no intent and that Eduardo had no desire to cheat he would have gone to the referee after the incident and admitted that it wasn't a penalty and that he wasn't looking for one ::)
Only decent players like Robbie Fowler for example would do that :)
In all fairness Arshavin tried to do that last season.
When Wenger made his comments about "not seeing it" and admitting he was protecting his players before the season started, I was wondering what his new excuse would be. Now we know - insisting it wasn't a dive and daring the world to call his player a cheat. Well, I have no problem calling Eduardo what he is - a cheat (and before anyone points it out, Steven Gerrard is also a cheat).
Proper order. This sort of thing needs stamped out.
What's all this talk of retrospective banning....
Any chance of Rooney getting his ban for this one now...Maybe for 2moro's game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ttK_ThHXc
Swings and roundabouts lads...Dont know what all the crying is about every team has got them decisions for and against them over the years.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 28, 2009, 06:40:21 PM
in a consistant world surely this should piss you off but then on one hand you're a Tyrone fan and the other a Celtic fan and I would question your ability to be impartial.
I am neither a Tyrone fan nor a Celtic fan.
I have never at anytime pretended to be either.
Do you understand the term "supporter" or has it become so degraded in EPL brainwashed ireland?
QuoteWhere is your condemnation of the armchair pundits Giles, he was as bad as Spillane and was an absolute thug on the pitch but yet you find nothing wrong in him singling out Eduardo like Spillane did Mulligan.
You have not a clue about Giles as a player on the pitch and I would stake a tidy sum that you did not see him play either
Let me put it simply for you Dinny.
Mulligan did not cheat when he was accused by Splillane, not just my opinion.
Eduardo did cheat, not just my opinion
QuoteNothing but where is the condemnation of players faking injuries, pretending goals weren't scored and playing on as normal, surely that is any even worse form of cheating and completely against the ethos and spirit of any game.
I don't give a feck if a cheating player is from any one of Man u Liverpool Arsenal Chelsea etc
Couldn't care less where the latest poncy arsed overpaid demasculated gobs is from. Couldn't care less what club Eduardo is from.
I am just glad that a cheat has been caught, and without doubt, totally comprimised, in the act of outragious cheating for all the world to see and that the people in Uefa who want to clean up this shite with sanctions will get some more support.
I paid good money for my plasma, I also have my honourable sensitivites to consider.
Quote from: deiseach on August 28, 2009, 06:37:00 PM
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 28, 2009, 06:20:13 PM
On the eduardo case, I think he was more antcipating contact and made he most of it, but was also terrified that Boruc may make contact with his leg.
If this is true, he shouldn't be back playing as he is suffering from some manner of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
That may be true but Petr Cech seemed to be concious of his skull at the start of last season, which is fair enough to an extent, but if you watch the 3-0 suicide against United, you can see he is concious of the post for 2 of the goals.
he is a cheat and deserves everything he gets... by not punishing the incident UEFA would be condoning it and in fairness they could never charge someone of diving if they didn't charge Eduardo - given how blatant the dive was. His reaction while on the ground after he realises the penalty is given really sickens me as does Wenger half baked argument that he was trying to avoid another horrfic injury or whatever excuse he was shiting on about...
As all singling him out, he singled himself out with such a blatant dive in such a marquee and high profile game...
And I hope that this treatment of cheats is continued and it would go a long way to stamping it out
So Celt Man...just bring the rules in when its against Celtic?
As arsene Wenger said he could give 10 examples from the matches in the last week when players tried to "deceive" the ref.......So by UEFA's rules if you try to deceive the referee you can be banned.....So by that logic if you call for a corner/throw in and you know it clearly isn't you are trying to deceive the referee into gaining a unfair advantage.......Same rules for every infringement after all you may score from the corner/throw....The Arsenal legal team will rip this charge to bits!!! All they have to do is produce evidence from other games and say charge everyone then.....And believe me it would be too costly for UEFA!
It's great craic altogether. Wenger can be funny.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 28, 2009, 07:13:22 PM
What's all this talk of retrospective banning....
Any chance of Rooney getting his ban for this one now...Maybe for 2moro's game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ttK_ThHXc
Swings and roundabouts lads...Dont know what all the crying is about every team has got them decisions for and against them over the years.
That one's nowhere near as clearcut Pat. Eduardo's stood out as particularly blantant, like Lafferty last year or Diouf a couple of seasons ago for Bolton.
What I think is strange is that had the referee recognised the fact that Eduardo was cheated, he'd have picked up only a yellow card and there'd have been no suspension yet now he's facing a (deserved) 2 match ban. There's an anomaly there. Maybe in cases where the ref thinks there's been a dive, he should just not award a penalty or free kick and look at the incident after the match to decide if a ban should be administered.
And the conspiracy theories about this being related to the United match today are hilarious. :D
As i have said they have charged Eduardo for trying to "deceive the referee" and as i said before every challenge can now be challenged! Say for instance me and you go for the ball and it goes out off you and you claim the corner, are you not then trying to deceive the referee? Are you not cheating? Of course you are trying to gain unfair advantage (cheating)
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 29, 2009, 10:15:13 AM
The Arsenal legal team will rip this charge to bits!!! All they have to do is produce evidence from other games and say charge everyone then.....And believe me it would be too costly for UEFA!
Not a chance. The rules of sport are not the same as the law of the land. I remember when Roy Keane was handed a second ban for the notorious Alf Inge Haaland incident, some people were bleating about double jeopardy as if they were Jack McCoy in Law & Order. Didn't do him any good
You argue semantics, tell me what I do and don't know and then make another sanctimonious rant. Didn't have you down as a keyboard warrior.
I actually agree that Eduardo cheated I've never said he didn't, it's the entire hypocrisy around it, the possible retrospective 2 game ban yet it's only yellow card offence, the witch hunt from Celtic fans, the usual Wenger vitirol etc etc that's what annoys me...
Anyhow I'll leave you to your rants, your sensitivities and your plasma, may you never watch another premiership game again ;)
Quote from: deiseach on August 29, 2009, 02:27:14 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 29, 2009, 10:15:13 AM
The Arsenal legal team will rip this charge to bits!!! All they have to do is produce evidence from other games and say charge everyone then.....And believe me it would be too costly for UEFA!
Not a chance. The rules of sport are not the same as the law of the land. I remember when Roy Keane was handed a second ban for the notorious Alf Inge Haaland incident, some people were bleating about double jeopardy as if they were Jack McCoy in Law & Order. Didn't do him any good
But is this sport or business? Large sums of money are at stake. I think players in more than one sport have been brought before the courts for physical clashes on the field and the rule of law took precedence over the rules of sport. Jockeys have gone to jail for cheating.
I know it's the famous appalling vista and given the amount of cheating that goes on, professional soccer couldn't function if it was made amenable to the law. Some of us would enjoy the irony, of course, if the awful cavalcade of greed and ugliness that is pro soccer today was to be brought to an end by an onslaught of opportunistic lawyers. They'd deserve each other.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on August 29, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 28, 2009, 07:13:22 PM
What's all this talk of retrospective banning....
Any chance of Rooney getting his ban for this one now...Maybe for 2moro's game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ttK_ThHXc
Swings and roundabouts lads...Dont know what all the crying is about every team has got them decisions for and against them over the years.
That one's nowhere near as clearcut Pat. Eduardo's stood out as particularly blantant, like Lafferty last year or Diouf a couple of seasons ago for Bolton.
What I think is strange is that had the referee recognised the fact that Eduardo was cheated, he'd have picked up only a yellow card and there'd have been no suspension yet now he's facing a (deserved) 2 match ban. There's an anomaly there. Maybe in cases where the ref thinks there's been a dive, he should just not award a penalty or free kick and look at the incident after the match to decide if a ban should be administered.
And the conspiracy theories about this being related to the United match today are hilarious. :D
Why is Rooneys less clearcut TAM? Both look like penalties in real time but it can be seen that there was no contact with the aid of video evidence. And I agree about the conspiracy theories.
Ballack handled the ball today. Cheat.
Quote from: ONeill on August 29, 2009, 03:36:05 PM
Ballack handled the ball today. Cheat.
Absolute disgrace, he deserves a 6 match ban >:(
Terry also blocked a player and got away with it. Cheat. Ban him.
I just saw Torres trying to deceive the ref there.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 29, 2009, 03:01:34 PM
You argue semantics, tell me what I do and don't know and then make another sanctimonious rant. Didn't have you down as a keyboard warrior.
I actually agree that Eduardo cheated I've never said he didn't, it's the entire hypocrisy around it, the possible retrospective 2 game ban yet it's only yellow card offence, the witch hunt from Celtic fans, the usual Wenger vitirol etc etc that's what annoys me...
Anyhow I'll leave you to your rants, your sensitivities and your plasma, may you never watch another premiership game again ;)
jeez Dinny, dont think thats the case. Most Celtic fans accept arsenal were the better side and worthy winners. However most soccer and sports fans dont like this whole cheating aspect.
I was pleased to learn that celtic players took samaras aside after his first game with the club and told him that he was not dive again as a celtic player. He def is not falling about as he embarrassingly was in his first game for the celts.
eduardo dived. unlike other cases he is being taken to task. he's the unlucky one. However he brought it upon himself as it was a matter of time when this was going to happen to someone.
Lets see the same rule being implemented to any player guilty of such an offense.
arsene wenger has gone down in my estimation - at least temp- for his denial that it was a blatent dive and to imply that it was contact - though not a penalty.
I dont expect him to call his own player a cheat, but the tv pics from behind the goal prove ( I believe at least) that the keeper had daylight between and eduardo - so it was a very badly blatant dive.
Equality across the board is required here now from uefa and hope they can eradicate diving in soccer.
I have to commend eastern pride with his reaon why edardo dived - that he subconsciously was aware of his recent leg break etc. Lad you should be a lawyer !
:)
There was contact - of that there's no doubt. However, Eduardo did the contacting.
Did the Celtic players also take Nakamura, Petrov and Larsson aside too, all booked for diving whilst donning the Celtic jersey? No club is different.
contact was when he was almost on the deck, daylight before he was well on his way down.
contact afterwards would be inconsequential I would have thought.
jeez if yer going to be bitter and whinge by dragging up celtic players that you believe that are divers - then you'd better find a new house that isnt made of glass.
at least you are keeping to the sport that you actually might know a bit about now...
as ridiculing me over my prediction of tyrones impending doom proved you wrong again !
arsenal are a great side and wenger a fantastic manager but this dive is a bad blot on the career of an otherwise very promising looking player.
Sorry, do I know you?
All matches over now then....Must trawl through all the action to see if anyone tried to deceive the ref...But hey Man U play Arsenal soon...Why do you not just ban Fabregas now for feinting injury!! Wouldn't doubt it....Wonder if Eddy's playing today? It would probably need him to get tackled by Jonah Lo mu to get a pen today......Complete disgrace the press heaping all the pressure on the ref today!
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 29, 2009, 05:00:50 PM
All matches over now then....Must trawl through all the action to see if anyone tried to deceive the ref...But hey Man U play Arsenal soon...Why do you not just ban Fabregas now for feinting injury!! Wouldn't doubt it....Wonder if Eddy's playing today? It would probably need him to get tackled by Jonah Lo mu to get a pen today......Complete disgrace the press heaping all the pressure on the ref today!
Whatever makes you feel better. Some might suggest we'd have none of this nonsense if Eduardo hadn't dived, but that would be ridiculous
Eduardo's shame hasn't eradicated the Arsenal Disease going by Eboue's antics. Booked for diving and substituted immediately to compound his disgrace.
True they should get Rooney in to show them how a proper dive is done, a class diver
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4761/1251570638877.gif)
Quote from: ONeill on August 29, 2009, 09:48:25 PM
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4761/1251570638877.gif)
Damning..............
He has "previous" against Arsenal at Old Trafford in fairness when it comes to collapsing in the penalty box.........
WTF was Almunia doing way out there?
They should have bought Given :)
did you see that p***k Robbie Savage tonight too. Got a tap on the shoulder and lay down as if killed. w**ker
The more you look at it, the more Almunia deserved to be cheated. You can see by Rooney's trailing leg that he was out to do him, and executed it brilliantly.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8425/1251570349756.gif)
The more i look at that the more furious i get!!!
He knew exactly what he was at...Cheat!!
If Eddy gets banned so does Rooney!
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 30, 2009, 07:52:08 AM
The more i look at that the more furious i get!!!
He knew exactly what he was at...Cheat!!
If Eddy gets banned so does Rooney!
;) :-*
Thats typical ure prob a UTD fan.....I tell you what if i was marking him I'd make sure it was a penalty.....and he wouldn't be picking himself to take it either.... :-* :-* :-*
Put it like this - had that been Eduardo yesterday, MOTD would have slo-moed it, virtual reconstruction etc. Disappointed in Lee Dixon that he bought into the stonewall crap. Still more angry with Almunia though.
steve coppell made an asute observation this morning that all front line strikers are taught to ride the goalies tackle and go to ground to help prevent injury, they antcipate the contact and are taught to ride it and go to ground because if they have their feet planted they will get injured, he said the only difference betweeb Eduardo and Rooney was that Almunia didn't get his hands away.
Very recent events have cause me to ponder that maybe there is some substance in this 'things even up, over a season' theory.
I don't know if the theory is supported by stats.
Certainly the theory has its followers.
In line with the 'things even up' theory,
a team could not possibly control where, when or how fast retribution would be exacted.
Arsenal trading a dive to win a (superfluos) goal in a tie that they had all but secured
for the concession of a crucial soft/suspicious penalty in their very next game against the EPL champs.
It would be the stuff of absurd irony, wouldn't it?
Don't understand the outrage... they are all the same... like Celtic boys don't be at it as well ::)
McGeady sent off for diving today!
That is hilarious. I didn't know that when I made previous comment. ...and after all the hand wringing from the Scottish FA about the Arsenel dude :P
"In the 63rd minute, McGeady was issued his second yellow and sent in for an early bath following a challenge from Hanlon.
Referee Dougie McDonald decided that no contact had been made and the Republic of Ireland international was dismissed for simulation."
Quote from: Main Street on August 30, 2009, 02:08:19 PM
Very recent events have cause me to ponder that maybe there is some substance in this 'things even up, over a season' theory.
I don't know if the theory is supported by stats.
I occasionally read a column in the Times by Daniel Finkelstein where he and some eggheads put all the numbers through a computer. He is convinced that the EPL season - or any other soccer season - is not long enough to be confident that the best team comes out on top. I think people (and I include myself in this) convince themsleves that 'things even up, over a season' because otherwise you'd go insane
(http://i32.tinypic.com/2njlirr.gif)
Mowbray said immediatly after the match that he's got no need to watch a video with multiple angles as it happened right in front of him and after Aiden running and having ridden one tackle with a 2nd about to happen he went over in anticipation of getting whacked.
It appears the vast majority of Celtic fans also think he dived without contact being made and deserved his yellow.
Refreshing honesty ;D
Excellent restraint shown from the Hibs fans on the board, with none calling him obscenities or hoping his legs are broken.
Nor will you get a manager like Mobray crying Infamy Infamy.
;D
Who's Mobray?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/30/hibernian-celtic-mcgeady-red-card
Tony Mowbray blames Eduardo for Aiden McGeady's sending off
A penny for Arsène Wenger's thoughts. Four days and thousands of column inches since Eduardo da Silva's penalty-box dive for Arsenal against Celtic, it was the Scottish side who were at the centre of a simulation controversy. As far as the Celtic manager, Tony Mowbray, is concerned, Eduardo's con trick – or more accurately the hubris which has followed it – played a part in the dismissal of Aiden McGeady.
McGeady, already on a yellow card for a first-half foul on Derek Riordan, earned a second caution after 62 minutes having embellished a challenge from Paul Hanlon near the halfway line. Cue much wailing from Celtic's supporters – the same ones who have been calling for Eduardo to be hung, drawn and quartered in recent days – and a similarly perplexed reaction from Mowbray. In what was a highly amusing post-match scene, the manager even refused to watch the contentious incident when replayed on a television monitor beside him.
"I don't need to watch it again, it happened right beside me," Mowbray insisted. "If the Eduardo thing hadn't been blown up, hadn't become nationally so big, then never in a million years was that a yellow card. The match officials got sucked in. If it hadn't happened this week, 99 times out of 100 that decision would not have been given. I think we are all in disbelief; the linesman even signalled for a free-kick to us at the time and he was a lot closer to the incident than the referee."
Although Mowbray's explanation that McGeady was "knackered" and attempting to ride Hanlon's challenge following a 30-yard run has a degree of merit, at least one camera angle proves there was no contact between the players. Wenger, who has been so vociferous over what he regards as a "witch-hunt" against his striker, would have been an interested onlooker. "I didn't touch him," Hanlon confirmed. "Aiden isn't a cheat, he was running at a fair pace at the time, I just managed to get my body out of the way. I think the referee got it right."
McGeady's red card threatened to halt Celtic's flawless start to the league season but basic belligerence, and some brilliance from their goalkeeper Artur Boruc, secured the three points. Hibernian laid siege to the visiting goal in the closing stages, Boruc superbly clawing a David Wotherspoon volley on to the frame of the goal before Anthony Stokes, Riordan and Sol Bamba and Colin Nish all passed up opportunities to restore parity.
Ultimately Hibs could not cancel out Georgios Samaras's 41st-minute goal, which was headed beyond Graham Stack from six yards after a fine Andreas Hinkel cross, but that basic detail will be lost amid what is sure to be another cheating debate north of the border. McGeady received support, at least, from the Hibs manager, John Hughes. "I don't think Aiden's that kind of guy," Hughes said. "He's an honest, hard-working player and I don't want to see anyone getting sent off."
Aiden Mc Geady .....Cheat....LoL
Are the FA going to charge Rooney/Skychester? I won't hold my breath.
In my opinion referees have to take some responsibility for diving (although players are obviously more to blame) until they are prepared to award penalties for fouls in which a player doesnt go to ground, players are going to continue to go down under light contact. For example had Almunia made contact with Rooney on Saturday and Rooney stayed on his feet but had his stride broken and not been able to get back to the ball as a result, would the referee have awarded a penalty? I would doubt it. Consequently players are going to continue going down easy and make sure of the penalty. It is the same with pulling and pushing at corners etc, they are all fouls but how often do you see them given, time for referees to implement fully the laws of the game.
All that said I dont like the idea of retrospective booking. The referees decision should be final as it for things such as sending offs, it is a dangerous precedent to over rule them after the event.
The other point to make is UEFA hope to punish Eduardo not only for the dive and deceiving the referee but also for failing to correct the referee after the incident. That is why UEFA say a retrospective punishment is more severe. If a player is booked for diving there is no need to correct referee.
QuoteAll that said I dont like the idea of retrospective booking. The referees decision should be final as it for things such as sending offs, it is a dangerous precedent to over rule them after the event.
If they want to clean up the game, in the absense of referees being able to develop slow-motion (and retrospective vision), then exactly what you don't want must happen. I personally don't see what's dangerous about it; what's dangerous is the philosophical rationale for sport disappearing forever.
Quote from: Billys Boots on August 31, 2009, 11:43:28 AM
QuoteAll that said I dont like the idea of retrospective booking. The referees decision should be final as it for things such as sending offs, it is a dangerous precedent to over rule them after the event.
If they want to clean up the game, in the absense of referees being able to develop slow-motion (and retrospective vision), then exactly what you don't want must happen. I personally don't see what's dangerous about it; what's dangerous is the philosophical rationale for sport disappearing forever.
The danger as I see it is if you start it for decisions that the referee has ruled on then where do you stop? Had that penalty occurred in the last minute and sent Arsenal through would the match have to be replayed because video evidence is being used to correct wrong decisions made by the referee? That would obviously be an extreme example but I feel that if your going to implement so sort of retrospective punishment when a referee gets something wrong then you either have to do it for every wrong decision or do immediately through a fourth official in game. A different rationale applies if the referee hasnt seen the incident
Don't disagree with you, but something has to be done to extend 'justice' within soccer (and gaelic too).
I don't understand the rationale that a player seen to dive in the box by the ref can get a yellow card but a diver potentially can get a 2 match ban using video evidence after the event for exactly the same dive.
Best situation for spotting penalty box incidents is one that stands the best chance of catching a diver in the act and a yellow card on the spot for a clear dive.
Quote from: Main Street on August 31, 2009, 02:05:00 PM
I don't understand the rationale that a player seen to dive in the box by the ref can get a yellow card but a diver potentially can get a 2 match ban using video evidence after the event for exactly the same dive.
Was thinking this myself!! Also is there a big difference between a player diving if the goalie makes no contact (Eduardo) and a player diving when a keeper makes very minimal contact? (Rooney) Sure a dive is a dive!!!
Technically there is a difference but imo it is more to do with the goalkeeping.
Almunia did his level best to hand a penalty on a plate to the onrushing player (running away from goal), desperately poor goalkeeping.
Boruc made a technically perfect body block, an excellent example of a goalkeeper using his body to legally shield his goal.
Hmm... I see Mr Rooney hitting the deck rather easilly again.
And Mr Lampard burying the penalty again.