Congress

[tiempo]

Worked example of 2 tier system based on 2019, last fully completed league season

Winners of Tailteann guaranteed entry to Sam the following year, everyone else based on that seasons provincial and league performance
Open draw last 16 for Sam, provincial winners at opposite ends of the draw and guaranteed home draw in first game
D4, D3, D2 winners guaranteed home draw
Tailteann straight open draw round last 16 and QF. SF neutral, Final on AIF day at Croke.

A straight up  meritocracy

Sam Maguire

1.   Roscommon (Provincial)
2.   Dublin (Provincial)
3.   Kerry (Provincial)
4.   Cavan (Donegal)
5.   Derry (D4 winners)
6.   Westmeath (D3 winners)
7.   Mayo (D1 second place)
8.   Tyrone (D1 third place)
9.   Galway (D1 fifth place)
10.   Monaghan (D1 sixth place)
11.   Meath (D2 first place)
12.   Fermanagh (D2 third place)
13.   Kildare (D2 fourth place)
14.   Armagh (D2 fifth place)
15.   Clare (D2 sixth place)
16.   Laois (D3 second place)

Tailteann

1.   Cavan (relegated D1)
2.   Cork (relegated D2)
3.   Tipperary (relegated D2)
4.   Down
5.   Louth
6.   Longford
7.   Offaly
8.   Carlow
9.   Sligo
10.   Leitrim
11.   Antrim
12.   Waterford
13.   Wexford
14.   Wicklow
15.   Limerick
16.   London

Tailteann; positions 4-16 as per league

[dublin7]

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

[tiempo]

Made a balls of that worked example but you get the point
Also overseas county home draw in first knockout game
Meritocracy

[tiempo]

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

Didn't look too meaningless to  Tipp 2020 and Roscommon 2019

The GAA created Frankenstein in Dublin reducing the Leinster champ to a shambles, they need to own it, others shouldn't have to make changes to cover that up

[dublin7]

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

Didn't look too meaningless to  Tipp 2020 and Roscommon 2019

The GAA created Frankenstein in Dublin reducing the Leinster champ to a shambles, they need to own it, others shouldn't have to make changes to cover that up

First win in 80 odd years for Tipp. First time in two decades it wasn't Kerry or Cork to win Munster. If anything this proves things have to change. Tipp can still win a Munster title under option B.

[sid waddell]

What has to change is the competitiveness.

Proposal B addresses the symptoms, not the cause of the problem.

And even at that, it will only make the symptoms worse.

[Rossfan]

Any chance you'd tell us your solutions Einstein?

[Armagh18]

I honestly think that all these systems n things could just be replaced with an open draw.  The numbers are close to perfect, 32/33 or whatever.  Possibly play the provincial championships before, after or during the all ireland series.  Let the dublins, kerrys and tyrones of the world play weakened teams in the provincial if need be.  The lesser teams would have their shit at all ireland glory and a shot at the provincial to boot.  They might have a better chance of provincial glory with weakened big teams

Would be brilliant but never gonna happen.

[Armagh18]

you still got provincial club championships linked to all ireland club so you can get your provincial fix that way club provincials probably more competitive than county anyway.

Are you for real

[sid waddell]

Any chance you'd tell us your solutions Einstein?

I've put forward several different proposals in minute detail on various previous threads.

Go and find them, Syf.

[BennyCake]

As for it becoming a pre-season comp played in the muck and shit. You seen how serious GAA people like Mickey Harte treated the McKenna Cup, with respect, compared to that eejit in Donegal who wouldn't field a team cus of some third level games the same weekend. No-one in Ulster would denigrate the Ulster champ.

Of course they would.

Sure teams routinely disrespected the knockout stages of the NFL. I've been at NFL semi-finals which had all the intensity of the old Goal post-All-Ireland charity match.

And the NFL is a national title.

Nice hyperbole.

A provincial knockout title linked to the All-Ireland won against your local rivals is worth more than a league title which doesn't feed into the championship.

Under Proposal B the "Ulster Championship" becomes the McKenna Cup.

It is not linked to the championship.

It is therefore meaningless.

The Leinster, Munster and Connaght championships are meaningless for the vast majority of the counties, so should they be forced to stick with the current structure to preserve the Ulster championship?

Didn't look too meaningless to  Tipp 2020 and Roscommon 2019

The GAA created Frankenstein in Dublin reducing the Leinster champ to a shambles, they need to own it, others shouldn't have to make changes to cover that up

Yip.  Offaly Westmeath Kildare Laois Meath all won Leinsters within  a 8 year period (Wexford we're in the mix too) before the Dublin funding really kicked in.  By 2004, the Leinster championship was never in a better place with a lot of counties able to compete.  But then they turned it into a shit show,  and left a third of the total counties in the country thinking, "what's the point"?

[Armagh18]

League championship isn't championship.

Another thing for me is that the winners of Ulster deserve to be further on in the All Ireland than the winners of any other province.

2 options for me would be run the provincials off separately from the all ireland and then do a 32 county straight knockout open draw- could see a middling team get a decent run and get to a semi final with a bit of luck. Could also see a big hitter getting put out early. 16 First round losers into the B All Ireland or whatever it's going to be called, again straight knockout, play as many double headers as possible and play the final before the senior one.

Other option would be keep the qualifier system but structure it that the winners of Leinster, Connacht and Munster have to face 3 teams that came through the qualifiers.

[Rossfan]

FFS!!!

[Tres Bien]

League championship isn't championship.

Another thing for me is that the winners of Ulster deserve to be further on in the All Ireland than the winners of any other province.

2 options for me would be run the provincials off separately from the all ireland and then do a 32 county straight knockout open draw- could see a middling team get a decent run and get to a semi final with a bit of luck. Could also see a big hitter getting put out early. 16 First round losers into the B All Ireland or whatever it's going to be called, again straight knockout, play as many double headers as possible and play the final before the senior one.

Other option would be keep the qualifier system but structure it that the winners of Leinster, Connacht and Munster have to face 3 teams that came through the qualifiers.

Would agree with this.

My own proposal would be to have the Championship as it was pre Super 8s and just stop teams from the same province being drawn against each other until the latest round possible.

The qualifier system was brought in to give teams a second chance and it benefitted Ulster teams from the tough draw they had in the provincial system but the qualifier system never gave redress for provincial differences.

Imagine next year we had a QF draw of Tyrone v Armagh and Donegal v Monaghan, two of those teams would be out into the 1st round of the qualifiers where they could draw each other. This should never have been allowed to happen.

If you give redress to the lopsidedness of the provincial system it would go someway toward solving the problem.

[themac_23]

Proposal B is prob the closest thing were gonna get to being right at the minute in fairness though we need to get it in then we can start tweaking it. think ive said on here before the easiest solution is

play provincial tournaments before the league. leagues div 3 and 4 play the intermediate championship with the winner getting a place in senior all Ireland following year along with div 3 winner. make div 1 and 2 positions for home advantage in their last 16 ties, so top 4 in div 1 and 2 go into the last 16 draw with home advantage and they get a draw against the bottom 4 from the other division.

make part of the prize for the intermediate winners a real good holiday, for example they play the all stars in Dubai or the likes of that.

personally, id much rather watch Antrim in a quarter final of a cup we have a chance of competing in than playing a team we get a nice pat on the head against and told ah well done it was competitive for 40 mins