Most "came out of nowhere" All-Ireland champions?

[GalwayBayBoy]

Galway in 98 probably deserve a mention. We weren't even supposed to win our first game up in Castlebar and were underdogs I think in every game bar maybe the Roscommon ones. Plus it came at the end of a long bad period for Connacht teams in general.

Underdogs against Mayo, Derry & Kildare. Not so against Leitrim & Roscommon.
As a previous poster mentioned, Galway really put it up to a very good Mayo team in 1997 so I dont really think that "they came from nowhere". A lot of that team were regarded as outstanding underage players and I recall that many in Galway were quietly confident of doing well in 1998.

Came from nowhere in that while some might have thought they had a decent chance of beating Mayo and thus Connacht I don't think they were spoken off as potential All-Ireland winners by anyone. Even after winning Connacht they were underdogs against an aging Derry team in the semis and underdogs again against Micko's Kildare in the final. While the young guys like PJ and Donnellan were considered talents at the beginning of 98 I don't think many people expected them to turn out to be as good as they actually were especially so soon. It's not like they had won a minor or U-21 All-Ireland because they hadn't.

I guess coming from nowhere means a team winning the AI that nobody realistically had down as genuine contenders at the start of the championship. I don't think that Galway team were considered potential AI winners early in the year. In hindsight it's easy to look back on the names on the teamsheet and say how could they not be contenders but I imagine they were well down the list in May 98.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Galway in 98 probably deserve a mention. We weren't even supposed to win our first game up in Castlebar and were underdogs I think in every game bar maybe the Roscommon ones. Plus it came at the end of a long bad period for Connacht teams in general.

Winning the All Ireland in 98 was a surprise; beating Mayo in Castlebar wasn't IMO.  They were a beaten docket that year after their tribulations of the previous 2 years and we were coming with a team that contained young talented players.      

Seán Óg de Paor wrote in Lá an Phaoraigh that there was a lot of belief in Galway in '98 after Corofin won the club championship but to say Mayo were a beaten docket that day is a bit much. De Paor reckons he was happier after that game that he was after Galway won the All-Irelands in 1998 and 2001. It's on p 149 if anyone wants to look it up.

[J70]

Derry were well fancied at the start of the championship in '93! Not least, they were talking themselves up, reckoning that it should have been them coming out of Ulster in '92. I don't think you could call Donegal that much of a longshot in '92 either - we contested our fifth Ulster final in a row that year, had a highly experienced and (at least in Donegal terms!) very talented side built on two different All-Ireland winning U-21 teams in the 80s. Granted, Down's breakthrough the previous year was very important in that it showed it could be done, but anyone who paid attention to the Ulster championship, particularly the final, that year should not have been too surprised that Donegal went all the way. The media (and the Dublin team apparently) put far too much stock in the nervousness displayed in the semi against Mayo, and I suppose in that respect, in that the coronation of the Dublin team did not go to plan, it might have been a shock to some. It certainly wasn't to Donegal supporters though - they knew the team had the talent, if not, to that point, the finishing touch.

[fitzroyalty]

You could include Cross when they won their first AI (although now we can't get shot of the c*nts  ). Hadn't won a SFC in Armagh in a decade, saw Mullabawn win an Ulster club, got jealous and went one better the following year!

[Bogball XV]

Galway in '98 were outsiders, I'd reckon 14/1 with the bookies?  Mayo in '96 would have been a bigger shock though
Armagh in '02 would have been another double digit price prior to the start of the AI series, I'm shocked Tyrone '08 haven't been mentioned as there's very few who would have predicted them to go all the way last year, I think they were 25/1 after the Down game?

[cornafean]

Drung, you're a very hard man to please.     Btw 1991-1986=5.

Meath in 1996 were indeed another team to "come out of nowhere". A good measure of how unfancied they were was the fact that the Sunday Indo tipped Carlow to beat them in the Leinster first round that year, on the strength of Eire Og's displays in successive All Ireland Club Championships.

Meath went on to win that game 0-24 to 0-06. So much for club success leading to county team success 

[mckieran]

Came from nowhere in that while some might have thought they had a decent chance of beating Mayo and thus Connacht I don't think they were spoken off as potential All-Ireland winners by anyone. Even after winning Connacht they were underdogs against an aging Derry team in the semis and underdogs again against Micko's Kildare in the final. While the young guys like PJ and Donnellan were considered talents at the beginning of 98 I don't think many people expected them to turn out to be as good as they actually were especially so soon. It's not like they had won a minor or U-21 All-Ireland because they hadn't.

I guess coming from nowhere means a team winning the AI that nobody realistically had down as genuine contenders at the start of the championship. I don't think that Galway team were considered potential AI winners early in the year. In hindsight it's easy to look back on the names on the teamsheet and say how could they not be contenders but I imagine they were well down the list in May 98.

This is not true. I remember many Galway people feeling that Galway could go all the way that year if they beat Mayo in the first round. Remember how Galway's support suddenly grew for that year compared with previous years. I just dont think they should be considered as a "come from nowhere team" when they were so close to beating Mayo the previous year and some of the players who were involved in the 95 AI semi final were still involved. They also had a very impressive league in 98, losing to Offaly but as far as I remember, some of the forwards had a real bad day that day and we kicked the game away

To me , a "Come from nowehere" team would be one that has shown no form in the previous 4-5 years and then finds form in this champioship.

[blanketattack]

In hurling it'd be hard to beat Clare in '95.
Hadn't won a Munster C'ship since 1932. Hadn't won the league since '78. Had zero All-Irelands at minor, U21 and club. At provincial level, had zero U21 titles, and just 2 minor titles and 1 club.

[The GAA]

Jaysus, what would the neutral give for a "clare 95" in the hurling championship this year?

[ONeill]

Swatragh quiz team at Scor na nOg 1983

[Bogball XV]

This is not true. I remember many Galway people feeling that Galway could go all the way that year if they beat Mayo in the first round. Remember how Galway's support suddenly grew for that year compared with previous years. I just dont think they should be considered as a "come from nowhere team" when they were so close to beating Mayo the previous year and some of the players who were involved in the 95 AI semi final were still involved. They also had a very impressive league in 98, losing to Offaly but as far as I remember, some of the forwards had a real bad day that day and we kicked the game away

To me , a "Come from nowehere" team would be one that has shown no form in the previous 4-5 years and then finds form in this champioship.

Was it the semi they lost to offaly in?  Offaly beat Derry in the final 10-8 in front of about 18,000 in croker (but interest in the league was so much higher back in the old days).
Galway were a shock winner that year, there's no 2 ways about it - a connaught team hadn't won since the mid 60's, Mayo were seemingly dominant in Connaught and if another side came through they'd not be at the races.

[eireogatron]

I just pointed out that his post was inaccurate, which it was.

On this point:

Also, a team who's perceived "best" players are 31/32 is a negative indication of strength not a positive one

Really? Even when you have won the All Ireland Minor title four years previously?
And back to back Ulster Under 21 titles in 84 and 85?
And back to back Ulster Minor titles in 86 and 87?
And the Hogan Cup in 86 and 88?
I would think that with a super talented bunch of 21/22/23 year olds, having a few quality 30-somethings who have won it all bar the big one (All Ireland minor, U21 and NFL) would do the youngsters good and make for a neat blend.
Imagine. Very few of that Down squad wouldn't have had a national medal of some sort going into the '91 campaign.
The squad was littered with All Ireland Minor, Under 21, NFL and Club medallists.

If a current squad was entering the 09 championship with the same track record as Down entered the 91 championship, this would be their pedigree:

All Ireland Minor 95
All Ireland Under 21 title 97
National League 01
Hogan Cup 04, 06
Ulster Minor titles 04, 05
Ulster Under 21 titles 02, 03
All Ireland Minor title 05
All Ireland Senior club titles 04, 06
Narrowly beaten in 04 Ulster final to eventual All Ireland runners-up

So in short that's effectively three to four bunches of dual Ulster/ All Ireland winning players ranging in age from 21/22 to 31/32 or so.
They were a coming squad, a side on the rise having won everything in the game at every level bar senior.
No way anyone cane say they 'came from nowhere'.
It wasn't a case of "WHOA, WHERE DID THIS DOWN TEAM COME FROM THAT HAS WON FIVE ALL IRELANDS AND EIGHT ULSTER TITLES AT VARIOUS GRADES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS"!!!

And someone said I'm talking dung? Think before you post.

you are talking dung. from even the best under age teams, you are looking at 4-6 making the grade at senior. With all of these titles (minor/u-21) overlapping you are still talking about the core of one, maybe 2 underage teams.

Underage success is not an accurate gauge for senior success. Club titles mean nothing. Clonoe won the Tyrone title with no county players and the county are AI champions.

sssssshhhhh........

[Drung]

Underage success is not an accurate gauge for senior success. Club titles mean nothing.

Bold statement. Can you name me a recent football or hurling All Ireland winning county that had no club success or underage success in the preceding years? Let's start with football and the Down team we have been talking about. Off the top of my head:

91: Down - All Ireland wins at underage and club level
92: Donegal - All Ireland wins at underage level
93: Derry - All Ireland wins at club level
94: Down - again
95: Dublin - All Ireland win at club level that very year
96: Meath - All Ireland win at underage level
97: Kerry - goes without saying they are hugely successful at underage and Munster/All Ireland club level
98: Galway - All Ireland club win that very year
99: Meath - again
00: Kerry - again
01: Galway - again
02: Armagh - All Ireland club wins
03: Tyrone: All Ireland wins at underage level
04: Kerry - again
05: Tyrone - again
06: Kerry - again
07: Kerry - again
08: Tyrone - again

As you can see, EVERY SINGLE 'new' team which has emerged after a relative gap - Down, Donegal, Dublin, Derry, Meath, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone - have all done so off the back of club or underage All Ireland success. I would see that as an accurate guage, and I would think that club titles mean something.

So, can you back up your opinion with some facts? Or will you keep talking shite???!

[cornafean]

Can you name me a recent football or hurling All Ireland winning county that had no club success or underage success in the preceding years? Let's start with football and the Down team we have been talking about. Off the top of my head:

What you are saying is that senior success is an accurate gauge for club or underage success, ie the counties who win most senior titles also tend to win a lot of club & underage titles. I don't think anyone disputes this.

It does not follow that the reverse is also true, ie that counties who win club or underage titles are in any way guaranteed senior titles. You only have to look at Galway hurlers to see this. Also Laois footballers.

I still stand over my description of 1991 Down and 1996 Meath as "came out of nowhere" All-Ireland champions.

If Laois were to surprise us all and win Sam this year, they would be likewise.

[Drung]

What you are saying is that senior success is an accurate gauge for club or underage success, ie the counties who win most senior titles also tend to win a lot of club & underage titles. I don't think anyone disputes this.

That's not what I'm saying. What I have shown to be fact is that any new county who has broken through at All Ireland level in the last 18 years has done so following a period of success at underage and/or club level.
Galway, Down, Armagh and Tyrone could all have been said to have "come from nowhere" - unless, of course, you take into account the trend of winning a breakthrough All Ireland SFC following club or underage success.
Ignore the prior success and, yes, they came from nowhere. However, look at the bigger picture and it's clear that they were very much "coming teams".
Laois is an example of a county that didn't make the breakthrough after underage success, but the exception doesn not prove the rule.

Put it like this. If a county like even Cavan won the Ulster Under 21 championship next year and the year after, the Hogan Cup and the Ulster minor championship the following year when narrowly losing the Ulster senior final and winning the All Ireland club championship, the All Ireland minor title the year after that and another All Ireland senior club title and another Hogan Cup two years later, would you regard them as a county very much on the up???

That's for a poor county like Cavan. Down, remember, had won the National League title just eight years before so there were some very good players there.

My point is, they had oodles of talent and a staggering success rate in all of the main competitions at every level bar senior in the previious few years. Of course Down didn't come from "nowhere". I would think they had the best combined underage, senior collges and club record of any team in the country in the relevant years prior to their breakthrough.