McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

To argue that Frank is the problem really demeans the wishes of all the clubs in Cork and their delegates who I'm sure have not been attending AGMs since 1973 - it's much too simplistic a view to take. The problems with Cork hurling are the same problems that are in every other county apart from Kilkenny who are riding the crest of a wave at the moment - but that will change as well.

[Uladh]

Is Gerald McCarthy the best possible man, within reason, to manage the cork senior hurling team this year?

if so, why?
if not, why not?

anyone?

[AZOffaly]

The problem is that there is a hard core rump in the County Board, led by Frank Murphy and his brigade, who feel that the players need to be shown who's boss, in my opinion. Unfortunately for Cork GAA, there are a hard core rump of players who no longer feel able to kowtow to those people any more.  Passedit is right, this is not a 'different' row, it's the same row, 6 years old.

They seem to despise each other, while each wanting the best for Cork GAA in their own minds. Looking in from the outside, it seems as if the players want to do whatever it takes to be competitive, not caring who gets their pride hurt along the way, while the County Board feels that it is best for Cork if all decisions around the running of the county teams are taken with no regard or sut to the players' preferences at all.

The only way this can be solved in my opinion, seeing as how orangeman asked earlier, is that a significant portion of the county board resigns, and/or a significant portion of the senior players retire. If the County Board, and it's way of handling player concerns, is not changed fundementally, then this dispute will continue for years. Patchwork fixes and temporary compromises are all very well, but it's only window dressing. There's seriously something rotten in the state of Denmark.

The players, by the way, are also to blame in the way in which they have handled their concerns. As I've said before there seems to be no middle ground with them, it's always the nuclear option. The problem with that is people get sick of it, and it plays into the County Board hands.

Wherever I have played, be it club or county, senior players on the team were sounded out about managerial appointments, or reappointments. In a lot of cases, especially at club level, the senior players would be actively involved in the recruitment of the next manager, with the full backing of the committee/county board. That is what Cork should be doing, the players do not dictate who manages them or not, but at least their voices are heard and decisions are taken with their knowledge, knowing that the players will be working with the new/old manager for another year at least. It seems common sense to me, but there is obviously a bigger agenda at play in Cork, and that is why I blame the county board for mismanagement.

[cornafean]

Is Gerald McCarthy the best possible man, within reason, to manage the cork senior hurling team this year?

Probably not, but could the same not be said of Davy Fitz, John McIntyre, Justin McCarthy, Anthony Daly, Mike Mac or any other manager  & county in the country bar Brian Cody and Kilkenny?

[Uladh]

the "within reason" part was to exclude unrealistic aspirations like brian cody managing them

[AZOffaly]

Is Gerald McCarthy the best possible man, within reason, to manage the cork senior hurling team this year?

if so, why?
if not, why not?

anyone?

Gerald McCarthy is only a symptom of this problem Uladh, he's not, and does not deserve to be seen as, the main issue at play here.

But in answer to your question above, I would say No. His record over the past two years is not great, and while the players themselves probably think they are better than they are at this stage of their career, the fact that he has obviously lost the dressing room means that he is not the best possible man, and that is disregarding any issues about his qualities or otherwise as a coach. I can't vouch for his abilities there, but once a dressing room is against you, you have very little chance of winning anything.

Plenty of teams hate their manager, and don't respect him as a trainer/coach//motivator/tactician and these teams almost always fail.
Plenty of teams like their manager, but don't respect him as a trainer/coach/motivator/tactician and these teams often fail.
Plenty of teams hate their manager, but do respect him as a trainer/coach/motivator/tactician, and these teams often succeed.
Some teams like their manager, and also respect him. These are the perenial success stories, with success being a relative term.

In Offaly terms

Section A was under various managers, notably Babs Keating.
Section B was under men like John McIntyre.
Section C was Eamon Cregan
Section D is Joe Dooley. We are hoping for the success to follow.

[orangeman]

Is Gerald McCarthy the best possible man, within reason, to manage the cork senior hurling team this year?

if so, why?
if not, why not?

anyone?

Gerald McCarthy is only a symptom of this problem Uladh, he's not, and does not deserve to be seen as, the main issue at play here.

But in answer to your question above, I would say No. His record over the past two years is not great, and while the players themselves probably think they are better than they are at this stage of their career, the fact that he has obviously lost the dressing room means that he is not the best possible man, and that is disregarding any issues about his qualities or otherwise as a coach. I can't vouch for his abilities there, but once a dressing room is against you, you have very little chance of winning anything.

Plenty of teams hate their manager, and don't respect him as a trainer/coach//motivator/tactician and these teams almost always fail.
Plenty of teams like their manager, but don't respect him as a trainer/coach/motivator/tactician and these teams often fail.
Plenty of teams hate their manager, but do respect him as a trainer/coach/motivator/tactician, and these teams often succeed.
Some teams like their manager, and also respect him. These are the perenial success stories, with success being a relative term.

In Offaly terms

Section A was under various managers, notably Babs Keating.
Section B was under men like John McIntyre.
Section C was Eamon Cregan
Section D is Joe Dooley. We are hoping for the success to follow.

Another good post AZ and well balanced - the point I was trying to make all along was similar but you have deacribed it better - the manager isn't and doesn't deserve to be the hub of the argument - he's merely as you say a symptom of it and the players perhaps believe that they are better than they are at this stage in their careers and neither side is in any mood to move.


But give Joe Dooley time and he might move to one of the other sections as A,B or C - So give him time. 

[Uladh]

absolutely right az, but that question has to be your starting point. if you believe he is good enough and the right man then there should be no issue and the players are wrong. if he is a poor manager / coach and doesn't have the smarts to get good people around him then the players had no option but to resist his appointment if they are in any way serious about winning.

McCarthy obviously is a pawn in all of this but those assessing and appointing him are not.




OM - stop talking oul shite. seriously, stop posting on this thread, you're making an ass of yourself. at least skull etc have the capacity to present reasoned arguments.

[orangeman]

absolutely right az, but that question has to be your starting point. if you believe he is good enough and the right man then there should be no issue and the players are wrong. if he is a poor manager / coach and doesn't have the smarts to get good people around him then the players had no option but to resist his appointment if they are in any way serious about winning.

McCarthy obviously is a pawn in all of this but those assessing and appointing him are not.




OM - stop talking oul shite. seriously, stop posting on this thread, you're making an ass of yourself. at least skull etc have the capacity to present reasoned arguments.

Is that right now ? I'll continue to post for as long as I choose to - you won't stop me !

[Uladh]

i dare say a herd of stampeding buffalo wouldn't stop you

[orangeman]

i dare say a herd of stampeding buffalo wouldn't stop you

You're right. 

[Reillers]

The root cause of the problem

One minute it's Frank, then it's Mc Carthy - which is it ?

How many more times do we have to say it. It has ALWAYS been about Murphy. You said you knew a bit about the running of Cork GAA, clearly you don't cause you keep asking stupid questions and making stupid statements.
It has ALWAYS, ALWAYS been about the CCB (Murphy.)
How many more ways does that have to be explained??

And the most blatantly obvious thing is Murphy, his silence is deafening.

[orangeman]

The root cause of the problem

One minute it's Frank, then it's Mc Carthy - which is it ?

How many more times do we have to say it. It has ALWAYS been about Murphy. You said you knew a bit about the running of Cork GAA, clearly you don't cause you keep asking stupid questions and making stupid statements.
It has ALWAYS, ALWAYS been about the CCB (Murphy.)
How many more ways does that have to be explained??

Is Murphy training the team or picking the team ?

[Reillers]

Oh OM. You really talk shite. You said you knew a fair bit about the running of Cork GAA, clearly you were bullshitting.

[orangeman]

Oh OM. You really talk shite. You said you knew a fair bit about the running of Cork GAA, clearly you were bullshitting.

I talk shite   Not a good response when in the middle of an argument to say that the other person is talking shite - back it up ! Just don't say I'm talking shite -


So why do you think I'm talking shite ??

I could say the same about you but I want to keep a level of decorum on the board.

So please - don't be childish and say I'm taking shite and keep repeating yourself about how I don't know anything about Cork GAA - So you know more than me - congratulations - but you're from Cork and are close to the players ! I'm not.