O Mahoney gets extra 2 years.

[southsidejohnny]

Interested in Spectators view about the dropping of Mac Donald as a sign of a clean break with the past. How come Jim Nallen and Aiden Higgins along with Heaney were not jettisoned either. That does not wash, arguably Mac was better than any of the picked forwards and that includes the vastly over rated Dillon and Mortimor. O Mahoney is making an awful hard job of breaking with the  past if its only Parsons and Cunniffe who have stepped in. At that rate of going i.e one per year we should have replaced the last of the boys of 1996 -2006 by 2016. 

[spectator]

Interested in Spectators view about the dropping of Mac Donald as a sign of a clean break with the past. How come Jim Nallen and Aiden Higgins along with Heaney were not jettisoned either. That does not wash, arguably Mac was better than any of the picked forwards and that includes the vastly over rated Dillon and Mortimor. O Mahoney is making an awful hard job of breaking with the  past if its only Parsons and Cunniffe who have stepped in. At that rate of going i.e one per year we should have replaced the last of the boys of 1996 -2006 by 2016. 

Not a break with past players as such, but with the culture that prevailed.

What I was trying to say was Johnno naturally favours a low key approach. That's at odds with the normal Mayo psyche, where ye start off every year with yeer chests puffed out talking about and expecting to win the All-Ireland - regardless of whether ye're good enough or not. I'm not having a go at ye here, just making an observation which is central to my argument.

McD was a brilliant off-the-cuff player whose sometimes mercurial dislays both dovetailed into and fuelled that particular Mayo way of thinking. He effectively validated the psyche of the Mayo supporters - and perhaps players also? - as he could make anything seem possible on his better days, imo.

Meanwhile, Johnno had decided that that type of approach was not going to win ye an All-Ireland. His own natural 'feet on the ground' low-key type approach had suited the Galway temperament reasonably well and for him it was a winning formula there. The 'sky-is-the-limit' type approach is not Johnno's way. He believes in keeping the build up quiet, building from the ground up, one block at a time etc etc.

In order to bring this approach to Mayo, he felt he had to get back to basics and change the psyche which existed in the county as outlined earlier. Dropping McD was the clearest, most clarion signal he could give to Mayo that he was going to change the super optmistic 'off-the-cuffe' culture which existed before his appointment, imo. The ' 07 defeat to Galway probably confirmed the need for this measure in his mind & the utilisation of his natural approach which worked so well with Galway, I reckon.

I'm not saying whether his approach is right or wrong, but that's just how it looks to me. When you're trying to change a culture of whatever type, it often takes years to achieve results.  As ic managers generally don't last too many years, it was all in all a  brave move by Johnno, imo. There's a lot of other variables to be considered in the overall picture of course, but that's my theory on it anyway.

[moysider]

Interested in Spectators view about the dropping of Mac Donald as a sign of a clean break with the past. How come Jim Nallen and Aiden Higgins along with Heaney were not jettisoned either. That does not wash, arguably Mac was better than any of the picked forwards and that includes the vastly over rated Dillon and Mortimor. O Mahoney is making an awful hard job of breaking with the  past if its only Parsons and Cunniffe who have stepped in. At that rate of going i.e one per year we should have replaced the last of the boys of 1996 -2006 by 2016. 

Not a break with past players as such, but with the culture that prevailed.

What I was trying to say was Johnno naturally favours a low key approach. That's at odds with the normal Mayo psyche, where ye start off every year with yeer chests puffed out talking about and expecting to win the All-Ireland - regardless of whether ye're good enough or not. I'm not having a go at ye here, just making an observation which is central to my argument.

McD was a brilliant off-the-cuff player whose sometimes mercurial dislays both dovetailed into and fuelled that particular Mayo way of thinking. He effectively validated the psyche of the Mayo supporters - and perhaps players also? - as he could make anything seem possible on his better days, imo.

Meanwhile, Johnno had decided that that type of approach was not going to win ye an All-Ireland. His own natural 'feet on the ground' low-key type approach had suited the Galway temperament reasonably well and for him it was a winning formula there. The 'sky-is-the-limit' type approach is not Johnno's way. He believes in keeping the build up quiet, building from the ground up, one block at a time etc etc.

In order to bring this approach to Mayo, he felt he had to get back to basics and change the psyche which existed in the county as outlined earlier. Dropping McD was the clearest, most clarion signal he could give to Mayo that he was going to change the super optmistic 'off-the-cuffe' culture which existed before his appointment, imo. The ' 07 defeat to Galway probably confirmed the need for this measure in his mind & the utilisation of his natural approach which worked so well with Galway, I reckon.

I'm not saying whether his approach is right or wrong, but that's just how it looks to me. When you're trying to change a culture of whatever type, it often takes years to achieve results.  As ic managers generally don't last too many years, it was all in all a  brave move by Johnno, imo. There's a lot of other variables to be considered in the overall picture of course, but that's my theory on it anyway.

Interesting hypothesis spectator but i doubt Johnno s actions  have been based on such a philosophical agenda. I believe his discarding of Mac was decided on persona, petty and vindictive basis rather than more noble intentions. If what I heard was true, Johnno may have had reason to feel slighted by something that happened in a meeting with the players early in the current managements reign.

Johnno may have tried to embrace a more solid approach but results have shown his attempts in a poor light. Soft defeats to Galway, Derry and Tyrone contrast poorly to some hard fought wins in the much maligned Maughan era [ Galway/Kerry96, Galway/Offaly 97. Galway in the rain in Tuam 99. Tyrone 04] or even for M&M [ Galway/ Laois after replay/Dublin06].
Some of his selections would not suggest a new philosophy either. If he had he would hardly have persisted with individualists like Mort, O Malley and Kilcoyne.

[holly11]

To the people in the know - what are the chances that McDonald will play next year?
will he be asked to a trial again? and if so, would he go?

[MacDanger]

Delighted that JOM has been given another two years. For a start I believe it shows he's committed to the cause and sees potential in the younger players coming through.

Interesting that Barry Moran was played at FF for the two challenge matches last week - an experiment not seen since it was tried relatively successfully against Derry.

A lot of new faces played in those games too. I'd fancy young McLoughlin for a corner back spot for next year, he's a proper sticky defender rather than just a ball player from what I've seen of him.

[moysider]

Delighted that JOM has been given another two years. For a start I believe it shows he's committed to the cause and sees potential in the younger players coming through.

Interesting that Barry Moran was played at FF for the two challenge matches last week - an experiment not seen since it was tried relatively successfully against Derry.

A lot of new faces played in those games too. I'd fancy young McLoughlin for a corner back spot for next year, he's a proper sticky defender rather than just a ball player from what I've seen of him.

A couple of things. Glad your delighted for a start and it makes a nice change from the general demeanor of people about the place.

My mother could see potential in the players coming through in fairness. So if that s the reason he hanging about its not a great. In other words if he did nt see a bgight future he would have left the job to a lesser mortal to do. He would nt be bothered wasting his time is the implication here. A bit arrogant don t you think? A lot of people have put a lot of effort into the nurturing and development of these lads so far. Our concern now is that they re not destroyed.

Barry Moran needs to come through for all our sakes. Playing him at ff the last day is hardly in the experimental stage anymore.

McLoughlin is a ball player of the highest order. But he s smart enough to do a marking job. In fact he is equally as good a forward as a back. What we should be doing is asking how he was nt involved earlier rather than applauding the obvious now. Worse still, what were the U21 management up to last spring by not including him earlier? I suppose that duo are back for more next year as well?

[blast05]

Having said all that the manager was a political appointment and it suits the County Board to line him up for Enda's next big shot which the way things are could come at any time.

Good lad Barney ... as i was reading through the posts, i was wondering when somebody was going to suggest the political angle ......  it seems very possible to me that the scenario went along the likes of O'Mahony going to the county board and saying something along the lines of "there will be almost certainly be an election within the next 12 months and thus i need a bit more security in the Mayo job so extend my "contract" by another 2 years ..." etc etc etc

[moysider]

To the people in the know - what are the chances that McDonald will play next year?
will he be asked to a trial again? and if so, would he go?

No chance. Its over. Gone. Not a chance.

[holly11]

To the people in the know - what are the chances that McDonald will play next year?
will he be asked to a trial again? and if so, would he go?

No chance. Its over. Gone. Not a chance.

that's an awful pity for mcdonald and mayo and football in general. it's a pity that o'mahony and him can't have a sit down now and clear the air.

[Lar Naparka]

Good God, Moysider, you shouldn't do that to me!
I haven't been keeping up to speed with Mayo affairs lately and when I saw the topic title; I said "Proper order!"
Anyway, he's back and I sincerely wish him and Mayo football in general the very best of luck. I've no problem at all in doing that.
I'm going to keep my head low after this post until I see some signs of positive progress. I've been behind Mayo in bad years and even worse than bad years for close on 50 years and this year for me was the absolute pits. I need to get a life and stop wondering when Johnno is going to give us another gaffe.
With regard to Mac, I never denied the manager the right to pick his panel and I still don't.
I think there was more to that particular story than was made public. Maybe Mac is a contrary customer and maybe O'Mahony has a fragile ego. Who knows?
The manner in which he handled Mac's omission did concern me. I know that his waffling about needing to close off the panel and then declaring that the way was still open for Mac and anyone else to play themselves into contention did worry some of the panellists.
One need not refer to any individual player here; it could have been Jimmy Nallen, Heaney, Gardiner or any established team member. To me, there was flawed judgement involved and the litany of bad decisions to follow, as Barney (I think) called it, is indeed a long and disheartening one.
I sure hope to God he proves me wrong and shows that he does know the difference between his proboscis and his posterior in the years ahead.
For the next few months at least, I'm going to leave him alone; my poor head can't take any more.

[moysider]

Good God, Moysider, you shouldn't do that to me!
I haven't been keeping up to speed with Mayo affairs lately and when I saw the topic title; I said "Proper order!"
Anyway, he's back and I sincerely wish him and Mayo football in general the very best of luck. I've no problem at all in doing that.
I'm going to keep my head low after this post until I see some signs of positive progress. I've been behind Mayo in bad years and even worse than bad years for close on 50 years and this year for me was the absolute pits. I need to get a life and stop wondering when Johnno is going to give us another gaffe.
With regard to Mac, I never denied the manager the right to pick his panel and I still don't.
I think there was more to that particular story than was made public. Maybe Mac is a contrary customer and maybe O'Mahony has a fragile ego. Who knows?
The manner in which he handled Mac's omission did concern me. I know that his waffling about needing to close off the panel and then declaring that the way was still open for Mac and anyone else to play themselves into contention did worry some of the panellists.
One need not refer to any individual player here; it could have been Jimmy Nallen, Heaney, Gardiner or any established team member. To me, there was flawed judgement involved and the litany of bad decisions to follow, as Barney (I think) called it, is indeed a long and disheartening one.
I sure hope to God he proves me wrong and shows that he does know the difference between his proboscis and his posterior in the years ahead.
For the next few months at least, I'm going to leave him alone; my poor head can't take any more.

Apologies Lar. Did nt mean to wreck your head or anything. Maybe your right about taking a break and see what happens. I think I ll do the same. Usually about now I d have an eye on FBD [ Ok I ve a problem] and league and ......... Think I ll be giving it a miss this time though. Nobody I know is up for it to be honest. Maybe I ll feel differently after Christmas and need a fix but the events of the last 2 summers have not filled me with any hope that 09 will be any better than bad with lots of spin. We re in a period of transition and it takes time to go from bad to worse. There s the the player resources to improve but I would nt hold my breath to be honest,

[OirthearMhaigheo]

Until some of these minor lads get older I don't see an All-Ireland in us but I do think we can push alot harder than we did this year. It's up to Johnno to find new talent, bringing in some of the Ballagh lads would be a start, McDonald's return would also have to be seen as an addition, anyone at the county semi would have to agree.
He's still the best candidate for the job but he needs to improve, and be more like the man of a few years ago before we as a county can improve.

I agree with most of that. Where will the new talent miraculously appear from though? The U-21's of two years ago are the lads who should be answering the call now surely? The political angle may be the reason why Ballagh representation was so scarce this year? What do you mean by the comment 'be more like the man of a few years ago' though? Intrigueing.

Just to answer your first one, there is more talent around the county and he is going about finding it. As I said introducing a few of the Ballagh lads would be a start. While not exactly 'new', Ger Cafferky is showing good signs that he has bulked up and may provide the full-back solution this year.

As for the second comment I just mean we need to see more of the Johnno during the Galway tenure. He doesn't seem to be the same man that led Galway to 2 All-Irelands, I just hope he can find that energy again, I think he can. I would be a lot less cynical and politically motovated than alot of posters here. I am taking the 2 year extension as a good sign, a sign that he is committed and does want to lead us to an All-Ireland. Having said all that, if next year doesn't go well the contract may not be worth much.
Of all the names suggested so far it further highlights that there really is nobody better for the job at the moment. Hopefully next year will be a good one and Johnno and Co. will prove me right.

[spectator]

I would be a lot less cynical and politically motovated than alot of posters here. I am taking the 2 year extension as a good sign, a sign that he is committed and does want to lead us to an All-Ireland. Having said all that, if next year doesn't go well the contract may not be worth much.
Of all the names suggested so far it further highlights that there really is nobody better for the job at the moment. Hopefully next year will be a good one and Johnno and Co. will prove me right.

Yeah, fair comment OM.

There'll be a huge amount of pressure on Johnno to turn things around next year, all right. Introducing new talent at this stage and getting them up to serious championship level within six or seven months is an incredibly tough task though. It's an interesting point about the various agendas that exist around Mayo. Can he manage the county side to success, when it appears not everyone is rowing in behind him? Maybe Johnno feels he's weeded out the players who didn't fit his requirements, and knows the players at his disposal well enough now to crack on. Bringing in Ballagh players -  after dispensing with some of them after his first year - wouldn't be a wise move politically, as he could lose GAA votes in his constituency that way. But who can tell, players' form changes from one year to the next. He's damned if he does & damned if he doesn't, I reckon. I can't help but think it was unwise to mix sport and politics in this instance. Being a TD is an incredibly demanding job, time wise, while it also puts him in a position where he's fair game to attacks from all sides. Still, hopefully he'll prove the detractors wrong in the coming year. It'll be one of his finest achievements if he manages to mastermind a major success for Mayo next year, imo.

[moysider]

I would be a lot less cynical and politically motovated than alot of posters here. I am taking the 2 year extension as a good sign, a sign that he is committed and does want to lead us to an All-Ireland. Having said all that, if next year doesn't go well the contract may not be worth much.
Of all the names suggested so far it further highlights that there really is nobody better for the job at the moment. Hopefully next year will be a good one and Johnno and Co. will prove me right.

Yeah, fair comment OM.

There'll be a huge amount of pressure on Johnno to turn things around next year, all right. Introducing new talent at this stage and getting them up to serious championship level within six or seven months is an incredibly tough task though. It's an interesting point about the various agendas that exist around Mayo. Can he manage the county side to success, when it appears not everyone is rowing in behind him? Maybe Johnno feels he's weeded out the players who didn't fit his requirements, and knows the players at his disposal well enough now to crack on. Bringing in Ballagh players -  after dispensing with some of them after his first year - wouldn't be a wise move politically, as he could lose GAA votes in his constituency that way. But who can tell, players' form changes from one year to the next. He's damned if he does & damned if he doesn't, I reckon. I can't help but think it was unwise to mix sport and politics in this instance. Being a TD is an incredibly demanding job, time wise, while it also puts him in a position where he's fair game to attacks from all sides. Still, hopefully he'll prove the detractors wrong in the coming year. It'll be one of his finest achievements if he manages to mastermind a major success for Mayo next year, imo.

Interesting views alright. I ll admit to being a bit cynical or disillusioned myself. I m not motivated by politics however and could nt care less where Johnno is coming from politically as long as his team does the business on the field. This has not happened so far and he has to take lots of the blame for poor selections and lack of tactical astuteness for instance.
Not sure some of his weeding has improved the team though and the reality is that the weeding must continue and some of the players that he s included  over the last 2 years need to go. What were his requirements I wonder? There is a well debated individual that did not meet his requirements. Is he happy about all his other choices?  He has hard decisions to make again about some players and he can not take the soft option and drop older players. James Nallen is still one of his more important players, eg. He still needs to replace at least 5 and maybe more from 08 panel before even looking at the elder statesmen.
Playing Ballagh lads wont cost him any votes. Losing next year might though. I m not sure about the importance of this political angle. I think its overstated.  I mean dropping a certain individual that I wont name from the panel was political suicide in North Mayo. The local rivals might have tried to cripple him on the pitch down the years but there was massive respect for the lad in the region. Picking Ballagh lads is a yawn compared to that. I don t think Johnno s panels/selections are influenced by political motives. I believe he s above that nonsense. Just his 2 years in charge have been very poor from a football view, and he s made several poor decisions but there is no questioning his integrity. It s his judgement I would have a problem with.
   Whatever Ballagh lads are good enough must be played but who are good enough? Or I should say who will improve the ones currently there?  Barry Regan must have a big shout now. Looks a much better and fitter player than a couple of years ago. Andy Moran already there. Hanley there and gone. James Kilcullen? Midfield instead of . Barry Kelly? Playing well but where to play him?
Thing is he has lots of options for players in most positions. Full back the problem spot still. No obvious solution there. Barry Kelly looks a clever player and may be worth a look there . A long shot I know but its been done in the past, and he looks like too good a player to dismiss as just a club player, as we often do in this county.. But I cant see him play midfield and he looks like he s adaptable. More so than Kieran Conroy for example. Ger Cafferkey will soon break into the team. Full back probably not his best position - he s not the biggest- but he might be required to play there. I d prefer to see him get a year or two in the corner or on the wing before being thrown in there.

[mannix]

i would not vote for jom after the shafting and lies about kmac, and i think mayo are going nowhere fast with him in charge.
Mayo have definetly regressed under his charge, he cannot have time for 2 big jobs.