Who are the team of the decade?

[ONeill]

It's a kind of a zen thing for me. If you care about being team of the decade, you're probably not team of the decade, because if you were really team of the decade, team of he decade wouldn't matter to you and you'd also know you were and wouldn't need to be asking people to confirm it.

Yes, that's why I never talk about being a babe magnet.

[blanketattack]

Seriously lads, 16 pages on this? 

Seems simple to me. Kerry won five, Tyrone three, Armagh and Galway one each. Game, set and match to the Kingdom.

History doesn't give a sh1t who beat who and who didn't beat who. All that matters is who won the All-Ireland.

Good thing im not a historian then. As someone who watched Tyrone beat Kerry 3 times i'd say Tyrone were the better team, unless of course you can explain to me how the "team of the decade" never managed to beat tyrone in that decade.

Going by that theory you must think Down were the team of the 20th century?

Anyway the team of the decade are the Dublin Blue Stars as they're the only team to have won a game this decade!

Yeah, Down were the team of the 60's anyway.

Listen Tyrone and Kerry were the two best teams of the decade, following it so far?

Hence if I was asked to choose between the two teams as to which side were the best over the last ten years I would say Tyrone due to the encounters I witnessed. Still following?

If this was a quiz and I was asked "Who won the most All-Irelands in noughties?" I would say Kerry but that's not what I'm being asked. Understand?

You may think Kerry were the best team, fair dues, shove it up your whole, watever, I don't care. It's your opinion. You keep your's, I'll keep mine. Gettit?

What I'm asking is what County do you think were the team of the 20th century?

[magickingdom]

Seriously lads, 16 pages on this? 

Seems simple to me. Kerry won five, Tyrone three, Armagh and Galway one each. Game, set and match to the Kingdom.

History doesn't give a sh1t who beat who and who didn't beat who. All that matters is who won the All-Ireland.

Good thing im not a historian then. As someone who watched Tyrone beat Kerry 3 times i'd say Tyrone were the better team, unless of course you can explain to me how the "team of the decade" never managed to beat tyrone in that decade.

Going by that theory you must think Down were the team of the 20th century?

Anyway the team of the decade are the Dublin Blue Stars as they're the only team to have won a game this decade!

Yeah, Down were the team of the 60's anyway.

Listen Tyrone and Kerry were the two best teams of the decade, following it so far?

Hence if I was asked to choose between the two teams as to which side were the best over the last ten years I would say Tyrone due to the encounters I witnessed. Still following?

If this was a quiz and I was asked "Who won the most All-Irelands in noughties?" I would say Kerry but that's not what I'm being asked. Understand?

You may think Kerry were the best team, fair dues, shove it up your whole, watever, I don't care. It's your opinion. You keep your's, I'll keep mine. Gettit?

what is team of the decade anyway? if its anything surely its the standout team of that time and most decades probably dont have a standout team. a team that wins 3 ais out of 10 aint a standout team in any decade. thats just my opinion

[ardmhachaabu]

what is team of the decade anyway? if its anything surely its the standout team of that time and most decades probably dont have a standout team. a team that wins 3 ais out of 10 aint a standout team in any decade. thats just my opinion

I agree.

Those still talking about Tyrone being this non-existent entity should really catch themselves on

[trileacman]

Seriously lads, 16 pages on this? 

Seems simple to me. Kerry won five, Tyrone three, Armagh and Galway one each. Game, set and match to the Kingdom.

History doesn't give a sh1t who beat who and who didn't beat who. All that matters is who won the All-Ireland.

Good thing im not a historian then. As someone who watched Tyrone beat Kerry 3 times i'd say Tyrone were the better team, unless of course you can explain to me how the "team of the decade" never managed to beat tyrone in that decade.

Going by that theory you must think Down were the team of the 20th century?

Anyway the team of the decade are the Dublin Blue Stars as they're the only team to have won a game this decade!

Yeah, Down were the team of the 60's anyway.

Listen Tyrone and Kerry were the two best teams of the decade, following it so far?

Hence if I was asked to choose between the two teams as to which side were the best over the last ten years I would say Tyrone due to the encounters I witnessed. Still following?

If this was a quiz and I was asked "Who won the most All-Irelands in noughties?" I would say Kerry but that's not what I'm being asked. Understand?

You may think Kerry were the best team, fair dues, shove it up your whole, watever, I don't care. It's your opinion. You keep your's, I'll keep mine. Gettit?

what is team of the decade anyway? if its anything surely its the standout team of that time and most decades probably dont have a standout team. a team that wins 3 ais out of 10 aint a standout team in any decade. thats just my opinion

There's the problem. No-one really knows what qualifies you as "the team of the decade". The problem is that the terms and conditions of the "team of the decade" vary with your opinion and, of course, geography.

We need a "team of the decade" commitee to deliberate and come up with a sound ruling.

Or maybe we don't and we can just agree to disagree and find something more important to argue about, like the price of coal, or the lack of road grit.

[Puckoon]

It's a kind of a zen thing for me. If you care about being team of the decade, you're probably not team of the decade, because if you were really team of the decade, team of he decade wouldn't matter to you and you'd also know you were and wouldn't need to be asking people to confirm it.

Yes, that's why I never talk about being a babe magnet.

Flawed logic.

Louth, just as an example, probably don't talk about being the team of the decade either.

[stephenite]

Kerry have more All Irelands than any other county - nothing else really matters surely?

[Hardy]

It's a kind of a zen thing for me. If you care about being team of the decade, you're probably not team of the decade, because if you were really team of the decade, team of he decade wouldn't matter to you and you'd also know you were and wouldn't need to be asking people to confirm it.

Yes, that's why I never talk about being a babe magnet.

Flawed logic.

Louth, just as an example, probably don't talk about being the team of the decade either.

Not flawed at all. My proposition excluded only teams who cared about being team of the decade from qualification as team of the decade. It didn't refer at all to teams who talk or don't talk about being the team of the decade. Neither did it imply the reverse proposition that all teams who don't care about being the team of the decade are team of the decade. And anyway it wasn't logic.

[Puckoon]

It's a kind of a zen thing for me. If you care about being team of the decade, you're probably not team of the decade, because if you were really team of the decade, team of he decade wouldn't matter to you and you'd also know you were and wouldn't need to be asking people to confirm it.

Yes, that's why I never talk about being a babe magnet.

Flawed logic.

Louth, just as an example, probably don't talk about being the team of the decade either.

Not flawed at all. My proposition excluded only teams who cared about being team of the decade from qualification as team of the decade. It didn't refer at all to teams who talk or don't talk about being the team of the decade. Neither did it imply the reverse proposition that all teams who don't care about being the team of the decade are team of the decade. And anyway it wasn't logic.

I was talking to O'Neill.   

[comethekingdom]

Kingdom withstands Ulster's rise
New contenders but rich-poor divide still grows, writes Martin Breheny

By Martin Breheny


Monday January 04 2010

THE headline figures from the first decade of the new millennium present a healthy picture of Gaelic football but, as always, it's necessary to sift through the details to get a clearer image of exactly how things stand.

Put it all together and the findings are mixed. Positives abound in many areas, not least in the emergence of Armagh and Tyrone who finally made the All-Ireland senior breakthrough. Westmeath's delivery in Leinster and the return of Laois after 57 years without a provincial title were other notable high points.

Dublin and Armagh each won the All-Ireland U-21 title for the first time while, at minor level, Armagh took the title for the first time in 60 years and Roscommon bridged a 55-year gap. Eleven counties won an All-Ireland title in at least one grade while 19 counties won an All-Ireland and/or a provincial crown.

Armagh, Galway and Tyrone were the only three counties to win All-Ireland titles at senior, minor and U-21 level. Surprisingly, Kerry missed the triple hit, having failed to win a minor title.

haul

However, they emerged as the dominant force on the senior scene, winning five All-Ireland titles, a haul last achieved by Mick O'Dwyer's great Kerry team in the 1980s. The circumstances were, of course, different as Kerry won the 2006 and 2009 titles, via the All-Ireland qualifiers, having been beaten by Cork in Munster.

There are traditionalists in Kerry who contend that there should be an asterisk alongside the back-door victories on the basis that the team suffered a defeat before relaunching the campaign, a facility not available pre-2001. Conversely though, it could be argued that many of Kerry's All-Ireland finals won prior to that were achieved in easier circumstances than currently exist.

With Cork the only consistent opposition in Munster, it was possible for Kerry to win the All-Ireland title in three competitive contests pre-2001. That's no longer the case as the erection of the All-Ireland quarter-final fence has made life much more difficult for all provincial champions.

Titles are there to be won under whatever systems exist at the time so Kerry's achievement in taking five All-Irelands has to be taken purely on its merits. Besides, they also reached three other finals, underling the level of consistency that applied. And they washed down those fine meals with the pleasant wine provided by three Allianz Football League wins.

For all that success, Kerry end the decade with a stone in their shoe, placed there with great glee by the Armagh-Tyrone axis in 2002-2003-2005-2008. If Kerry were told at the start of the decade that they would lose three All-Ireland finals and one semi-final to Armagh and Tyrone they would have assumed it was at under-age level.

But just as Down successfully attacked Kerry in the 1960s, Armagh and Tyrone annexed large chunks of the kingdom this decade. Armagh started the campaign with a second-half surge in the 2002 All-Ireland final, but it was Tyrone who went on to really challenge Kerry for the team of the decade accolade.

Indeed, having beaten Kerry under three different managers (Paidi O Se, Jack O'Connor and Pat O'Shea) in the championship, Tyrone would assert their right to be regarded as No 1 but, since every All-Ireland title is as valued as the next, the final tally is all that counts.

It shows Kerry beating Tyrone 5-3 this decade so the Kingdom are entitled to be regarded as No 1.

However, in terms of the historical dimension, there's no doubt that Tyrone's achievements were quite remarkable. Having failed to win any senior All-Ireland since the foundation of the GAA, it was quite an advance to take three in six seasons. What's more they're primed to start the new decade as leading contenders to continue the exciting run.

The power surge from Armagh and, especially, Tyrone was based on a style of football that came in for some criticism as it faced the charge of being negative and defensive. In many ways, that's very unfair. Yes, Tyrone place huge emphasis on ball retention but what's wrong with that?

Ultimately, the challenge facing any coach -- and indeed any team -- is how best to maximise their prospects of winning while operating within the rules. Tyrone did that with spectacular success so it was up to others to respond.

Every game is constantly evolving. There's always a better way of doing business and, while no system lasts indefinitely, it can be profitably exploited for a period. Kerry discovered that with one of the most basic ploys of all when they posted the giant figure of Kieran Donaghy at full-forward at a time when their 2006 championship campaign appeared to be lurching towards the sidings.

The result? He changed the course of that campaign and once Kerry won the All-Ireland title, the big full-forward became the new 'toy' on both the county and club scene. It has, to a large degree, run its course now, thanks to re-adjusted defensive systems.

There's also the reality that simply placing a big man on the edge of the opposition square won't achieve a whole lot unless he has fetching ability, a good positional sense and a cute football brain as was the case when Donaghy made his move in 2006.

The Kerry-Tyrone rivalry was one of the more fascinating aspects of the decade but there's no disguising that there have been major disappointments too. Dublin still can't get into an All-Ireland final, let alone win one; Mayo's misery grows ever more acute; Galway and Meath have dropped back alarmingly since contesting the 2001 All-Ireland final; Laois looked set for something special after winning the 2003 Leinster final but ran out of ambition very quickly from there on.

The All-Ireland qualifiers certainly added impetus to the scene and, among other positives, took Fermanagh and Wexford on magical adventures all the way to All-Ireland semi-finals. Westmeath, Sligo and Wicklow were others to use the back-door to good effect.

For all that, it has to be noted that 13 counties failed to win either an All-Ireland or provincial title in any grade during the decade while five others took just one prize. Of the 150 All-Ireland and provincial titles available throughout the decade, 125 (83.3pc) were won by eight counties, leaving just 25 titles (16.6pc) to be shared between the remaining 24 counties.

That's quite a gap between rich and poor. It may have always been so but it's disappointing to see a new millennium continue on the same trend. What's more, it's difficult to see much change over the coming decade.

- Martin Breheny

Irish Independent

[Puckoon]

Anyway - just to discuss it, if there wasnt the slightest of controversy, then the debate wouldnt exist.

There is an argument that 5>3 and so Kerry are the team of the decade, and no doubt that would be the simplest way to look at it.

However, it will gnaw at the bones of those kerrymen in their later years (and dont say that it wont because they will have 5 celtic crosses in their pockets), but the competitor in them, the very thing thats made them great, will be unsatisfied that in 3 attempts at the business end of the season, they couldnt (not didnt), they couldnt beat that Tyrone team.

The same way the Tom Markham cup ate at Mickey Harte til he finally had it in his hands, or the Sam Maguire to Peter Canavan.

Make no mistake about it, this Kerry group want to beat this Tyrone group in an AIF/SF - and so far, they havnt done it.

Now thats just one side of the coin, and only my opinion  - but I can't see the likes of Paul Calvin, or Darragh O'Se telling one of the Tyrone boys at a function in 20 years time - "Here, we have 5 and you only have 3", because they'll know the long and the short of it.

Every team loses players, and goes through transitions, but there is no doubting the immediate demoralisation of the events of this decade on the Tyrone team - just as their is no doubing in 2005, after regrouping, that the loss of Cormac Mc Anallen added a steely determination to the side that won Sam that year.


Maybe Id be too competitive, but I think that may be close to the truth.

Anyway, isnt it great to be able to have the debate at all, I think Tyrone, Armagh, and Kerry were good for football this decade.

[ONeill]

However, it will gnaw at the bones of those kerrymen in their later years (and dont say that it wont because they will have 5 celtic crosses in their pockets), but the competitor in them, the very thing thats made them great, will be unsatisfied that in 3 attempts at the business end of the season, they couldnt (not didnt), they couldnt beat that Tyrone team.

The same way the Tom Markham cup ate at Mickey Harte til he finally had it in his hands, or the Sam Maguire to Peter Canavan.

Make no mistake about it, this Kerry group want to beat this Tyrone group in an AIF/SF - and so far, they havnt done it.

You're my poster of the year, so far.

[saffron sam2]

Crossmaglen, pointy elbows et al., get my vote.

[blanketattack]

One thing I always notice in this debate is that when people look back at the decade from the Kerry persepctive they look at the whole decade, both the All-Ireland winning years but even the other years more strongly especially the defeats to Tyrone.
When they look at the decade from the Tyrone perspective it's almost always based solely on the 2003, 2005 and 2008 c'ship seaons. The defeats to Down, Laois, Mayo, Sligo, Meath, Derry, etc. are almost completely glossed over. People forget the 7 bad Tyrone years where Tyrone sometimes lost to some mediocre opposition, some of whom didn't win a provincial title or even make the All-Ireland 1/4 finals all decade. Outside of losing to Cork at provincial level (never when knockout), the teams that defeated Kerry became All-Ireland champions that year or else were recent All-Ireland champions.
One thing I know for sure is that if the Kerry players had a choice between 5 All-Ireland medals and 3 defeats to Tyrone or 3 All-Ireland medals and no defeats to Tyrone, they would pick the 5 All-Ireland medals every time

[J70]

Seriously lads, 16 pages on this? 

Seems simple to me. Kerry won five, Tyrone three, Armagh and Galway one each. Game, set and match to the Kingdom.

History doesn't give a sh1t who beat who and who didn't beat who. All that matters is who won the All-Ireland.

Good thing im not a historian then. As someone who watched Tyrone beat Kerry 3 times i'd say Tyrone were the better team, unless of course you can explain to me how the "team of the decade" never managed to beat tyrone in that decade.

Going by that theory you must think Down were the team of the 20th century?

Anyway the team of the decade are the Dublin Blue Stars as they're the only team to have won a game this decade!

Yeah, Down were the team of the 60's anyway.

Listen Tyrone and Kerry were the two best teams of the decade, following it so far?

Hence if I was asked to choose between the two teams as to which side were the best over the last ten years I would say Tyrone due to the encounters I witnessed. Still following?

If this was a quiz and I was asked "Who won the most All-Irelands in noughties?" I would say Kerry but that's not what I'm being asked. Understand?

You may think Kerry were the best team, fair dues, shove it up your whole, watever, I don't care. It's your opinion. You keep your's, I'll keep mine. Gettit?

Good job Tyrone didn't meet Kerry then in one of Tyrone's off-years. Would they have beaten Kerry in '04, '06', '07 and '09? Maybe Kerry were just unfortunate that the three times they met Tyrone were in their own off-years.

...or maybe Tyrone was the better team    was hardly off years for Kerry as they reached the All Ireland semi-final and two finals when they got beat by Tyrone.

Its all relative. All-Ireland semi is a minimum expectation in Kerry, even in a poor year.

But again, would Tyrone have beaten Kerry in '04, '06, '07 and '09 had they been drawn together in any of those years?

They probably would as they beat them any other time they met.

Assuming for the sake of argument that that is the case, what would it prove? That Tyrone are a better side or that they just come out better in a direct matchup with Kerry? As I said in an earlier post, Man United used to beat Liverpool regularly in the early 80s, yet Liverpool were overall far, far more successful. Who was the better team?