New Derry Manager

[southderry]

Who are these people nominated for the  Derry minor job:


Alfie Dallas, Martin Gallagher;  Michael Hughes;  Martin McWilliams; Charlie O?Kane.

Any favourites?

[Maximus Marillius]

SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry

Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy  have all said he is county material.

You do make some valid points and I won't dispute anything you say about Frank Dawson's managerial ability. However, I will point out that Dawson's Longstone team reached the Down final last year.. so figure it out.  There are also admittedly differences between the two Glenullin teams, but there are also differences in the way the Derry championship was run in the two seasons in question. In Dawson's era, it was a straight knockout and as such it is not inconceivable that on a one-off occasion, any team could beat any other team. Now, the way in which the system is structured favours stronger teams. Is it unreasonable to guess that Dawson may have hit the same heights last year as Cassidy, had he had the same championship structure in place?

You rightly state that Bellaghy have been to three finals under Cassidy, winning one. As I said before, for a man with a Bellaghy team that is only an average record, and hence based on this, he is an average club manager. Whether or not an average club manager can make the step up to senior inter-county management is the issue here. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.

Paidi O Se was hounded out of Kerry because, by their standards, he was crap. He subsequently proved this in Clare.

I have never spoken to any player who played under Cassidy (it was Brennan I was referring to); I am basing my opinion on cold, hard statistics and the statistics, I feel, bear out my point. It may well be that the players rate Cassidy and that he is the best man for the Derry job, but I don't see it that way.

SS2 fair enough...and i didnt say he was the best for the job either, but i think he is the best out of that group. On your point about S'neil...i think they have massively under achieved for the players they have. I also think bellaghy have overachived with for the players they have...thankgod

[robertemmet]

Ryan Mellon plays for Tyrone and is a coach for the Ulster Council.  well I think so anyway

[Cromagh]

SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry

Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy  have all said he is county material.

You do make some valid points and I won't dispute anything you say about Frank Dawson's managerial ability. However, I will point out that Dawson's Longstone team reached the Down final last year.. so figure it out.  There are also admittedly differences between the two Glenullin teams, but there are also differences in the way the Derry championship was run in the two seasons in question. In Dawson's era, it was a straight knockout and as such it is not inconceivable that on a one-off occasion, any team could beat any other team. Now, the way in which the system is structured favours stronger teams. Is it unreasonable to guess that Dawson may have hit the same heights last year as Cassidy, had he had the same championship structure in place?

You rightly state that Bellaghy have been to three finals under Cassidy, winning one. As I said before, for a man with a Bellaghy team that is only an average record, and hence based on this, he is an average club manager. Whether or not an average club manager can make the step up to senior inter-county management is the issue here. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.

Paidi O Se was hounded out of Kerry because, by their standards, he was crap. He subsequently proved this in Clare.

I have never spoken to any player who played under Cassidy (it was Brennan I was referring to); I am basing my opinion on cold, hard statistics and the statistics, I feel, bear out my point. It may well be that the players rate Cassidy and that he is the best man for the Derry job, but I don't see it that way.

Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......

Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.

So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.

But then again - typical begrudger

[Real Talk]

Croizer wasn't paid a penny for the job. Can't see Scullion taking money either.

Mickey Harte gives wee talks to a lot of clubs -  he even goes to Derry clubs - he goes wherever he is asked to go and the same for Scullion.
[/quote]

[Real Talk]

Bit missing from previous post.
Isn't strange the perceptions some people have of great Gaels like Crozier, Scullion and Harte, those great volunteers of the modern age.  Folks are you living in the real world!!!!!!!!

[tyrone86]

Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......

Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.

So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.

But then again - typical begrudger

I can only speak on the Tyrone bits with any degree of knowledge so I'll leave the rest of it.

To be fair, the equivalent Loughmacrory side that Cassidy led (minors of 00/ u21s of 03) got to a Grade 1 Minor league final before being beat by what was a damn good Coalisland side. The bulk of them had been playing Senior Football for a couple of years previous - winning promotion from 1B in 01 and had a year in 1A in 02 before Cassidy was brought in.

As for Clonoe beating Errigal, Clonoe beat Carmen under the charge of one Beefer Morrison last year so it's not like he was taking over a dud side. And Errigal, minus the Canavan's, Eoin Gormley, Peter Loughran and a few others and with a half fit Enda McGinley aren't the power they once had been.  IF, and it's a big IF, they beat Carrickmore again in the championship QF this year then he will have been decent value for the Rahilly's.

[carribbear]

I can only speak on the Tyrone bits with any degree of knowledge so I'll leave the rest of it.

Tyronies usually can't wait to stick their oar in 

[saffron sam2]

You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.

Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......

Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.

So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.

But then again - typical begrudger

If you are going to join the debate, could you at least have the manners to do so with a modicum of competence in the use of the English language. I will try to address each point I think you are trying to make in turn.

He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it.

Fair enough, but as his record suggests it is not a particularly successful gameplan. Joe Kernan had a gameplan for Armagh that he fine-tuned during his time with Cross and backboned his team with Cross men. Mickey Harte has a gameplan that he developed through minor and under-21 teams. That is the level Derry should be aspiring to. Cassidy may well come in with a game plan, but would he have the players for that plan at his disposal within Derry or would he have to create a new game plan for those players? Still, any sort of a game plan would be an improvement on Paddy Crozier's reign.

He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.

So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?

As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway.

Mickey Moran won a National League with Derry (95) and took them to an All-Ireland semi-final (04). Should he now be re-instated?

As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory.

Yes we know about the under-21 title. Now to paraphrase Art, the next time Derry play in the Tyrone under-21 championship, Cassidy is your man. Who are the Derry under-21 champions by the way? Exactly. You could also read tyrone86's more knowledgeable post.

With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years,

As I have already highlighted above, this is a below average return for someone who managed Bellaghy as long as Cassidy did. Can you prove otherwise?

and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.

Again, tyrone86 stole my thunder, but he's right. Beefer for Derry.

So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.

By simply looking at his managerial record objectively. It looks like the emperor's new clothes from where I am sitting.

* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.

[wherefromreferee?]

You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.

He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.

So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?

* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.

Clearly a St Marys man then SS2.  Much preferred '84 myself 

[ONeill]

After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.  

[Maximus Marillius]

After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.  

There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!

St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football

[saffron sam2]

You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.

He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.

So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?

* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.

Clearly a St Marys man then SS2.  Much preferred '84 myself 

Which one were you then?

Teams

Maghera

McCusker, Quinn, Burke, McGrellis, C. McGurk, N. Mullan, S. Walls, D. McNicholl, Dougan, Gormley, C. McNicholl, J. McGurk, Rafferty, Cassidy, Mulholland. Subs. Kelly, Quinn, Lynn, Darragh, McKenna, Downey, Hurley, Dillon, O'Neill

St. Mary's

Ferrin, McCrudden, Crummy, C. Austin, Byrne, Hughes, Smart, McAneney, Mahon, McCrory, McKernan, O'Doherty, Heatley, T. Austin, B. Austin. Subs. Kelly, Quinn, Mark Hamill, Downey, Micko Hamill, Weir, Boyle.

[saffron sam2]

After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.  

There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!

St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football

I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him. No-one here has disproved any of my points. So, we'll go with the personal attacks. 

Nor do I consider myself an expert in the English langauage, merely competent. It's himself, by the way.

[Maximus Marillius]

After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.  

There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!

St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football

I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him. No-one here has disproved any of my points. So, we'll go with the personal attacks. 

Nor do I consider myself an expert in the English langauage, merely competent. It's himself, by the way.

good man SS2...and my post was not a personal attack, just an observation. Please post where I have got personal with you...other than a jibe about St Marys, which is not about you