Are the provincial Championships totally meaningless now?

[marty88]

Scrap them. Waste of time. 32 county knock out or champions league format, take your pick.

[Northside Dub]

Id like to see the O'Byrne,McKenna cups etc. scrapped and start the league at the start of the year. Play out the provincial champonships between april-june and then champions league stlye of 8 groups of 4 for the AI with winners going through to the quarter finals.
This leave an opportunity for every county to win one of the three competitions!

[GallBoss]

Timne to scrap the the provincials and move to a champions league style format with seeding sorted based on league performance guaranteeing a more open championship ...with more shocks ..more novel ties...more interest for the average spectator.

[thewobbler]

It's time to stop f**king with a successful format.

[GallBoss]

It's time to stop f**king with a successful format.

Where is it successful wobbler Ulster and nowhere else ......

[AZOffaly]

Leinster is very successful. The Connacht championship is decent. I would turn it (the question) on it's head. Where is it *not* successful? The only place I would say is Munster, and even there Limerick threatened for a while.

Most of the cries for the scrapping of the provincial system have come about because either a) People feel Kerry have too handy a run, or b) People feel it's unfair that a beaten giant gets a second crack.

Neither of them are good enough reasons to deny the likes of Fermanagh, Offaly, Leitrim, Sligo, Westmeath, Laois, Wexford, Monaghan, etc etc etc their moments in the sun.

[Bensars]

Champions league format my arse. Some people are far too quick to look at soccer and think automatically it is the right format and must be replicated.

The format at the minute  IMHO is excellent. Ask any of the Fermanagh or Wexford fans if the wanted the provisional championships scrapped and i guarntee you would get a resounding "No" despite the years of unsuccessful attempts. Any league format would dilute the intensity of the championship. Leave well alone.

Anyway, you would never the dubs out of the capital. Would all other teams in that group have to agree to play all their games away from home 

[Zulu]

Don't know how you can say Connacht is decent AZ, it is no better than Munster. And in Leinster Dublin are going for 4 in a row while Armagh have dominated Ulster for the last 8 or 9 years, so in general none of the provinces are great. Anyway it's not like anyone is saying the current format is complete rubbish or that any new format while cure all ills, what we (or at least me) is saying is that there are better formats and they should be tried.

Most of the cries for the scrapping of the provincial system have come about because either a) People feel Kerry have too handy a run, or b) People feel it's unfair that a beaten giant gets a second crack.

While I don't agree that the above are the only reasons for people calling for a new system I do think that reason (a) is reason enough to scrap them. If every year the soccer and rugby WC was held both Brazil and NZ were guaranteed a group with weak teams thus ensuring they made the QF every year while Ireland were guaranteed to be in a 'group of death' each year would you not be calling for a change in the format?

Quote from: Zulu on June 24, 2008, 01:52:48 PM
I. For example if you had 8 groups of 4 with only the top team qualifying you'd be guaranteed some massive crowds and some great do or die games.

Donegal/Offaly/Limerick/Waterford in a group .... dont think your prediction would come true there.
And what the hell good would 3 big defeats be to Waterford/Carlow/Antrim etc.

Maybe not in that group but I did say that it should (initially) be based on a geographical format so Donegals group might look like this..... Donegal, Mayo, Sligo and Fermangh. All those games would have big crowds and a knockout championship feel to them, another possible group would be Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow again all big games as points difference could very well come into it. As for your question what good would 3 heavy defeats be for Waterford, well they tend to get 2 each year anyway so and depending on their group they may not get that under 'my' format. Besides like I've already said weak teams like Waterford are going to get a few hidings under any format and let me ask you this what good is the current format for them when they (and Tipp, Limerick, Clare) have to beat 2 of the top 8 teams in the country to even win their province?

[RadioGAAGAA]

Are the provincial Championships totally meaningless now?

Are you suggesting replacing them with something else?

[AZOffaly]

Don't know how you can say Connacht is decent AZ, it is no better than Munster. And in Leinster Dublin are going for 4 in a row while Armagh have dominated Ulster for the last 8 or 9 years, so in general none of the provinces are great. Anyway it's not like anyone is saying the current format is complete rubbish or that any new format while cure all ills, what we (or at least me) is saying is that there are better formats and they should be tried.

I'm saying that Connacht is at least fairly competitive. Sligo's win last year is a case in point, while Roscommon and even Leitrim have won a provincial title in recent memory, and there are no really consistent 'handy' draws in Connacht. You might beat a team well one year, but chances are they'll be a lot better the next year. Apart from Clare's freak in 1992, it's been either Cork or Kerry for as long as I remember.

In Leinster, granted Dublin are going for 4 in a row, but Westmeath and Laois have also won titles recently, and Meath, Kildare and Offaly have won them in the recent enough past. Also the games are generally competitive, with the likes of Wexford, Longford, Louth being serious threats on any given day.

As for ulster, that is consistently competitive as well, so even though Armagh and Tyrone have divvied out a few titles between them, the likes of Derry, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh and Monaghan also started this year thinking they could win an Ulster. That's what it's all about.

Most of the cries for the scrapping of the provincial system have come about because either a) People feel Kerry have too handy a run, or b) People feel it's unfair that a beaten giant gets a second crack.

While I don't agree that the above are the only reasons for people calling for a new system I do think that reason (a) is reason enough to scrap them. If every year the soccer and rugby WC was held both Brazil and NZ were guaranteed a group with weak teams thus ensuring they made the QF every year while Ireland were guaranteed to be in a 'group of death' each year would you not be calling for a change in the format?

No I wouldn't to be honest. I look at the provincial championships and the All Ireland as seperate competitions anyway, so it just happens that Kerry come from a weak 'region' but they are still entitled to be champions of that region. I, for one, value a provincial championship, and I'm sure the players of the vast majority of counties would value one too. I think it sits nicely in the summer schedule and is grand the way it is.

[Zulu]

In Munster both Tipp and Limerick should have won at least one title each in the past few years and Limerick should have beaten Cork this year, so if you swapped Kerry for Galway or Mayo, Munster would probably be more competitive than Connacht. We are getting off point though, you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that the provincial championships are worth retaining AND remaining part of the AI series because a few counties might win something, what I'm saying is play the provincial championships as stand alone competitions and use a new format for the AI series. That way we will see new match ups, more do or die type games, and a fairer format for all teams. Kerry won't be able to pace themselves for a QF while many of their main competitors have to play tough games and counties like Waterford will get out from the shadow of Kerry and may blossom a bit more.

[AZOffaly]

But by replacing or removing the provincial systems from the summer schedule, you de-facto downgrade them. I think the current system is grand as it is. A lot of people would say good hard matches before the All Ireland 'series' stands to you more anyway. It didn't hurt Armagh or Tyrone in their All IReland years, and it very nearly caught Kerry last year.

[the Deel Rover]

Here are the winners in connacht the past 7 years  4 different counties have won it and leitrim have put up good performanances as well so  you could say that its fairly competetive


2001: Roscommon
2002: Galway
2003: Galway
2004: Mayo
2005: Galway
2006: Mayo
2007: Sligo

[INDIANA]

its amazing people want to start it earlier play aseperate provincial championship and then a champions league format? Where exactly will the clubs fit into this or are we advocating county players don't play for their clubs? To be fair most of them don't anyway, maybe we should make it official.

[Zulu]

I know your a bit of a rugby fan AZ so I find it hard to believe that if Ireland were going to have to play in a group containing SA, England and France in every WC while NZ had to play Scotland, Canada and USA you wouldn't object to that. As for downgrading them, that is already done with the 'backdoor' format, 12,000 in Castlebar for the reigning Connacht champions against the home side. I was at all 3 Munster hurling games this year, all of them poor and few if any supporters down hearted at their team loosing. Now I accept there will be great rejoicing if Wexford or Fermanagh win their provincial titles and it will mean a lot to the players, however if Dublin, Armagh or Kilkenny (hurl) win they'll be just thrown in the boot of the car forgotten about as they focus on the bigger prize ahead. That is a fundamentally flawed system IMO, not to mention the fact that weaker counties like Antrim, Carlow and Waterford will always be asked to compete with teams far above them, at least in a different format, Antrim might have to play longford or Leitrim or Wat and Carlow might play each other.

I'm not saying there is no merit in the provincial championships but I am saying there isn't enough to warrant their continuing existence as it stands. I'm already looking forward more to the qualifier match ups than I am to any provincial final and I'd say I'm not alone in that.

its amazing people want to start it earlier play aseperate provincial championship and then a champions league format? Where exactly will the clubs fit into this or are we advocating county players don't play for their clubs? To be fair most of them don't anyway, maybe we should make it official.

Well under my format 24 teams will be out of the AI series in the space of a month so it should clear up dates for clubs not add to them. Which by the way is another advantage of doing away with the provincial championships as they stand.

Here are the winners in connacht the past 7 years  4 different counties have won it and leitrim have put up good performanances as well so  you could say that its fairly competetive

Fairly competitive yes but not very competitive and like I say swithch Kerry with Galway or Mayo and Munster would be at least as good as Connacht. Anyway would Sligo, Leitrim and Ros not benefit from not having to beat the big 2 each year, they might you know?