Are the provincial Championships totally meaningless now?

[Zulu]

I think ye are being generous as to the number of teams who have a realistic chance of winning their province lads. As for crowds, well they are getting smaller as the years go by, 12,000 at Mayo/Sligo, less than 10,000 at Galway/leitrim, 17,000 at Wat/Clare, 25,000 at the Wex/Laois and Dublin double header etc. so it seems the provincial championships are losing their lusture anyway. I'm not sure what the best system would be, but I'd start off with a geographically friendly one to begin with which could lead to match ups like Kerry v Galway, Tipp V Wexford, Meath V Cavan, Roscommon V Westmeath. For example if you had 8 groups of 4 with only the top team qualifying you'd be guaranteed some massive crowds and some great do or die games. In addition you'd have 3 games for each county with all games being important and an equal path to the AI for all counties. Like I said you could still run the provincial competitions as stand alone competitions so middle ranked teams have the possibility of winning something.

[AZOffaly]

8 groups of 4 with only one qualifier would lead to a lot of dead rubbers. It's bad enough when 2 qualify, and you always get one or two games which mean nothing. with only one qualifying, there'd be more.

[kevmy]

Crowds getting smaller every year!!?!  Was it not just 20 odd years ago we barely got 25,000 for an AI semi and now you're saying it's not enough for Wexford and Laois?

As a Mayoman I don't think the provinical Championship is meaningless. Ask any of the lads who'll go out to face Galway on the 13th July. The fact remains that most teams do better coming out of the provincial finals than they do through the back door. Mayo won Connacht in 04 and 06 and got to AI finals. WE lost in Connacht in 01, 02, 03, 05 and 07 and the best we managed was a middling quarter final performance against Kerry in 05

[Bensars]

Not much different from now.  That would equate to 6 games in each group and then the qf onwards ( 48 + 7).

Dont think it would be so far away from that at the minute and as the wobbler states you also get the historical  provisional  ties.

[ONeill]

Yes.

[Zulu]

Not much different from now.  That would equate to 6 games in each group and then the qf onwards ( 48 + 7).

It's very different from now in that all teams have the exact same route to the final. By the way I only came up with that system as I was typing to illustrate an alternative system, I'm not saying it is the right way to go.

Crowds getting smaller every year!!?!  Was it not just 20 odd years ago we barely got 25,000 for an AI semi and now you're saying it's not enough for Wexford and Laois?

In the 80's we were in an economic depression and the roads were much worse that isn't a fair comparison and the 25,000 was for a double header not for Wex/Laois if they had been there on their own it would have been closer to 10,000.

8 groups of 4 with only one qualifier would lead to a lot of dead rubbers.

Maybe, maybe not AZ for example let's say you had a group containing Meath, Armagh, Down and Cavan. Armagh beat Meath and Cavan beat Down in Rd 1. In Rd. 2 Meath beat Cavan and Down beat Armagh all teams would be going into the last round of games with everything to play for. And the above isn't an entirely unlikely scenario is it? of course there will be one sided games and dead rubber games but both Connacht and Munster could have gone straight to the finals for all the excitment they have generated this year.

[ExiledGael]

Last year Sligo won Connaught, this year Wexford are in the Leinster Final, while the Ulster Final has a slim chance of featuring two Division three sides, namely Down and Fermanagh, which is akin in soccer terms to this year's FA Cup Final Cardiff against Portsmouth.

Surely in the good old days when teams only got one bite of the cherry these scenarios would never have panned out?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[timmykelleher]

In hurling a provincial win means nothing for Galway, Antrim or Kilkenny.

The way the Kilkenny captain receives the cup each year is quite funny.
A quick "thanks very much, see you next year".

[GaillimhIarthair]

In hurling a provincial win means nothing for Galway, Antrim or Kilkenny.

The way the Kilkenny captain receives the cup each year is quite funny.
A quick "thanks very much, see you next year".

To add to that Timmy, a Leinster provencial win for Galway or Antrim would mean feck all also 

[orangeman]

In one word - YES

[Rossfan]

I. For example if you had 8 groups of 4 with only the top team qualifying you'd be guaranteed some massive crowds and some great do or die games.

Donegal/Offaly/Limerick/Waterford in a group .... dont think your prediction would come true there.
And what the hell good would 3 big defeats be to Waterford/Carlow/Antrim etc.
Until the GAA membership recognises the need for a two tier Championship the present system is as good as it gets.
In the long term future - keep the Provincials as stand alone competitions but use them as a seeding mechanism for a 2 tier All Ireland Championship.
Sligo 2007, Laois 2003, Westmeath 2004 and ..maybe Fermanagh 2008  - good reasons to keep the Provincials.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Last year Sligo won Connaught, this year Wexford are in the Leinster Final, while the Ulster Final has a slim chance of featuring two Division three sides, namely Down and Fermanagh, which is akin in soccer terms to this year's FA Cup Final Cardiff against Portsmouth.

Surely in the good old days when teams only got one bite of the cherry these scenarios would never have panned out?

Even in one of his 2% gaa posts he couldnt help but talk about British soccer.

[ExiledGael]

In one word - YES

Just because you lot can't get near it OM!

[haranguerer]

Fearon, by implication you're suggesting that teams are going out with an ambivalent attitude towards their provincial titles. To take Ulster for example; that derry were beaten basically because they knew they were still in the AI, and so put in less effort.

Why, then, bother to enter a draw for tickets to a game you believe is meaningless, esp when it means you might miss the start of Neil Young??

[Ryano]

This subject was brought up last year and i'm sure it will come up again many more times.

My own idea is to keep a type of provincial championship but not in its current format. Why not do away completely with the National league first. Then abolish the championships in Conn, Mun, Uls and Lein. In there place have 4 groupings, North, South, East and West made up of eight teams, just for example group/area West could be made up of Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim, Ros, Galway, Mayo, W.Meath and Clare. Then let the eight teams in each grouping play each other home and away with the top 2 teams going forward to a national 1/4 final, then semi and AI final. This way plenty of games of championship standard for each county and each county is not relying on just their ability to beat the bigger teams or win one game to progress. For example Roscommon could loose to both Galway and Mayo but still go through if Galway or Mayo loose games else where in the group. Under the current set up Ros lost one match to Galway this year, Tyrone, Meath, Sligo, Donegal all in the same boat and they are out and without another game for several weeks! Madness!

The current league and championship formats are waaaay too out dated and are just not working or benifitting the weaker counties in any way shape or form. The whole thing needs to be looked at from top to bottom and some radical ideas come up with.