European Final

Dinny Breen · May 26, 2008, 07:56:07 AM

Enjoyed the 1st half, thought the last 20 minutes was horrendously boring as Munster just strangled the life out of the game. Munster proved why they are the best team in European rugby and fully deserved their win. Where I thought Toulouse would win the battle of the line-out's I was completely wrong and Munster dominated here and at the break-down, how Paul O'Connell didn't get motm is beyond me.

Now for the negativity :

1: However it's bitterly disappointing to see diving and cheating come into rugby, Alan Quinlan your cynical reaction to a deserved kick up the hole and your dive on your 22 drop-out were just two blatant acts of cynicism. Very disappointing to see it and no doubt people will try and defend it but I don't think I could ever condone it and yes I know sometimes that's what you need to do to win big games so I'm not even going to enter a debate. Rugby is just heading down the road of so many other professional sports.

2: Munster are evolving their game but yesterday they reverted to type. It was not good for the neutral and and the last 15 minutes was rugby at it's worse, the ruck at the top level has no longer become a contest, the opposition get penalised for not rolling away yet the team in possession are allowed go off their feet at will. Rugby is all about winning battles to win the war, the ruck battle no longer exists and some startling statistics from the Super 14, over 90% of ruck ball is retained means the ELV's aren't going to help. Munster like many teams used it yesterday to run down the clock. Perfectly acceptable, poorly reffed and ultimately poor rugby for the neutral.

What I will say about Munster's fine win is that from an Irish perspective the most satisfying element is that it gives our players the belief that they are among the best in world and they can compete at any level, the biggest task for Declan Kidney and for the record I believe he is the right man for the job, is to get these players to start fulfilling their potential on an international stage.

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 08:55:33 AM

I'm still a bit wound up after Saturday, and can't really articulate my thoughts yet. However, in terms of achievement, to come through a group with Clermont-Auvergne, Wasps and Llanelli, to beat Gloucester in Kingsholm, Saracens in England, and the giants of European Rugby, Toulouse, in the final is some accomplishment, and puts 2006 in the shade, as well as emphasising the fact that Munster are now, without any contradiction, one of the powers of European Rugby.

I'm obviously going to have slightly opposite views to Dinny as regards negativity or whatever. Quinlan can be an awful messer, and has cost Munster in the past with indiscipline, but I don't think he did anything terribly wrong on Saturday. In fairness Pelous gave him a right kick up the hole, and that would hurt. It would hurt me anyway. He didn't roll around the ground, just gave a little hop and grabbed his arse.

I agree with the kickoff. He dived to win that, and it was an idiotic decision to restart if he wasn't looking for the penalty, because even if he gathered it, he was completely isolated and would have given a penalty away himself, or else turned it over.

As for the last 20 minutes, I'm afraid I was screaming at Munster to stick it up the jumper. I think it's entirely reasonable that, given the opposition and their ability to hurt you with turnover ball, given the situation in the match, and given the hunger to win, they would seek to play the game out. Let's be fair, they had done all that was asked of them. Defended like Tigers, destroyed the much vaunted Toulouse lineout (agree re O'Connell) much to my surprise as well, made their periods of dominance count, and but for an absolutely fantastic piece of opportunism by Haymans, would have been relatively comfortable.

So when they had seen Haymans do what he did, and they had bounced back to take the lead, I'm happy that they closed the game out, although I accept it is horrible to watch, and horribly frustrating to play against.

All in all, I think Munster deserved it, and deserve to feel immensely satisfied with themselves. I think they are unbelievable mentally, and in terms of professionalism, but professionalism mixed with heart and desire.

Fair play to them, and to win with O'Gara and Hurley playing poorly was fantastic.

Stand up and Fight.

PS. i hope the lads from the board who went had a great time as well.

screenexile · May 26, 2008, 09:54:02 AM

AZ are you not an Offaly man... why do you support Munster and not Leinster... another feckin Bandwaginer!

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 09:54:40 AM

Ah Jaysus. Did GNevin put you up to this?

screenexile · May 26, 2008, 10:14:47 AM

Dammit!!! I thought I would have gotten the 3 page essay again about living on the border blah blah blah!

Fair play to Munster... not pretty in the slightest but who gives a rats ass... United were far from pretty in their win on Wednesday night yet they're not getting the same negative press Munster are. Bottom line is Munster wanted it more and that was it. The few times Munster did open the game out they were very close to getting tries and Howlett's would have been a gem had it not been for the forward pass. Anyway they can now take the mantle from Ulster as the best Irish team ever in the Heineken cup

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 10:23:21 AM

Quote from: screenexile on May 26, 2008, 10:14:47 AM
Dammit!!! I thought I would have gotten the 3 page essay again about living on the border blah blah blah!

Fair play to Munster... not pretty in the slightest but who gives a rats ass... United were far from pretty in their win on Wednesday night yet they're not getting the same negative press Munster are. Bottom line is Munster wanted it more and that was it. The few times Munster did open the game out they were very close to getting tries and Howlett's would have been a gem had it not been for the forward pass. Anyway they can now take the mantle from Ulster as the best Irish team ever in the Heineken cup

I don't live on the border

screenexile · May 26, 2008, 10:28:19 AM

Sorry I mean "I've lived in Limerick/Tipperary and I love turnips and Munster blah blah blah" :p

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 10:29:15 AM

Quote from: screenexile on May 26, 2008, 10:28:19 AM
Sorry I mean "I've lived in Limerick/Tipperary and I love turnips and Munster blah blah blah" :p

I hate Turnips too

thebandit · May 26, 2008, 10:38:33 AM

Brilliant win for Munster, if not the most expansive gameplan ever

Ian Dowling will surely feature more for his country now, a good defensive winger

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 10:50:13 AM

AZOffaly · May 26, 2008, 10:53:21 AM

By the way, New Zealand back rower Jerry Collins has retired from the All Blacks set up yesterday, which would point towards a move North. (He's 27). I've heard him mentioned in relation to Munster recently. He'd be some signing.

Dinny Breen · May 26, 2008, 11:31:53 AM

QuoteIan Dowling will surely feature more for his country now, a good defensive winger

He's useless.

Bogball XV · May 26, 2008, 11:52:38 AM

Quote from: screenexile on May 26, 2008, 10:14:47 AM
Dammit!!! I thought I would have gotten the 3 page essay again about living on the border blah blah blah!

Fair play to Munster... not pretty in the slightest but who gives a rats ass... United were far from pretty in their win on Wednesday night yet they're not getting the same negative press Munster are. Bottom line is Munster wanted it more and that was it. The few times Munster did open the game out they were very close to getting tries and Howlett's would have been a gem had it not been for the forward pass. Anyway they can now take the mantle from Ulster as the best Irish team ever in the Heineken cup

Did Utd not get negative press for their negativity from 35 mins onwards on Wednesday night? Munster are appalling to watch and I wouldn't imagine there were too many outside of Ireland or Toulouse watching the game on Saturday. I think in the long run tactics such as those employed by Kidney and Ferguson aren't going to do their sports any favours, I know I'm getting fed up watching this type of shite (and I know that gaa can be as bad). I'm really hoping for a good Euro 2008 to try and restore my interest, I don't particularly hold out much hope though, not whilst penalty shoot-outs are retained as a method of discerning the victors, but at least international teams shouldn't be as drilled tactically (Greece last time out being a very obvious exception).

Hoof Hearted · May 26, 2008, 12:29:12 PM

fantastic occasion !!
i know where some of yous are coming from about the negativity, but when your there you just get caught up in the whole occasion, and when your cheering for the team who has 90% of the support, then winning is all that matters
if i was watching this on my own at home, obviously it wouldnt have been as exciting but i didnt want it to end to be honest

rrhf · May 26, 2008, 12:41:42 PM

Would ye ever catch yoursleves on. Munster achievement possibly renders them the greatest Irish sporting team of all time, and yes are knocking them for playing to their strengths. Look at the size of us and our resources. The only times I enjoyed watching the Irish team was when we were winning the big games yet the football was rank. Now we lose the big games and supposedly we have more skill in our games.. balls! For any Irish team to acheve they must be extremely well drilled, systematic and indeed at times defensive. The rubbish spouted by Pat Spillane over the years has yes all on tenterhooks, yes are afreaid to win through powerful defense. Good luck Declan Kidney in the Ireland job, may you override the begrudgers and may ye toast yer grand slam on the back of some lovely puke rugby.