Meeting of Grassroots to Discuss our Strategy re GPA

[Bensars]

Brian O Driscoll is a professional athlete on a signed contract, at club and international level.

If you want to make a comparison just come out and say , yes, i want to be a professional GAA player. Until that moment arrives you cannot compare like for like !!

[orangeman]

They don't wnat to come out and say that they want to be professional - not yet anyway - Dessie says the time is not right yet - but they will want to be professional in a few years time.

[INDIANA]

I can't believe some people are so thick that they don't believe inter county players want to be professional. Read any of their autobiographies and you'd realise that pretty quickly. Somewhere along the line it must have dawned on them that they realised "I' am part of an amateur organisation so i'm not going to get paid for this". If they want to be professional play something else.
For the information of Mr Marsden inter county players in the top bracket get sponsored cars- free gear- free membership of gyms- paid scholarships-mileage-free meals - free bloody holidays etc- now go away and do a nice audit on that and come back to me and explain why they need a grant on top of that? It's the poor sods in the weaker counties that get nothing who i feel sorry for. And now the organisation that was set up to help them has screwed them over in royal fashion to ensure they get less than everybody else. Pathetic.
I know rowers and athletes who are professional and live virtually on the breadline ie about 10k a year. I often trained 5-6 days a week in the latter stages ofthe all-ireland club chamoionship - was i entitled to a grant? I think that's a joke of an argument i know rowers and athletes training 6 days a week and living on less than 10k per year surviving on handouts etc. Gaa players do bloody well in comparison.

[Bensars]

What i would like to see to see, is some of our "elite" players to come forward and state publicly that they play for their county for the love of the game and for no renumeration and if the grant was made available they would not accept.

Now, fair enough if someone needs it, but there are plenty who are financially well enough off, who dont need it.

[Aghdavoyle]

What i would like to see to see, is some of our "elite" players to come forward and state publicly that they play for their county for the love of the game and for no renumeration and if the grant was made available they would not accept.

Now, fair enough if someone needs it, but there are plenty who are financially well enough off, who dont need it.

Thats gonna happen...



badly informed and thought out posts like this are the reason why there should be a ban on this topic

[Bensars]

It is an option on the paper put forward.

Agreement between the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Irish Sports Council, GAA and GPA to recognise the contribution of Senior Inter-County Players and additional costs associated with enhancing team performance.

Rationale
Our Senior Inter-County players provide the window through which our National Games are viewed nationally and internationally. It is recognised that the successful teams prepare and train to the highest international standards for team sports and that the current scheme of tax relief for professional sports people cannot be applied to Gaelic players because of their amateur status. The Minister therefore, via the Irish Sports Council, in consultation with the GAA and the GPA, intends to introduce schemes to recognise the outstanding contribution of Gaelic Inter-County players to our indigenous sport, to meet additional costs associated with elite team performance and to encourage aspiring teams and players to reach the highest levels of sporting endeavour. These schemes will be based specifically on Championship participation, the GAA’s blue riband competitions, commencing at the end of the National Leagues, and will operate as follows:

Annual Team Performance Scheme
The Annual Team Performance Scheme will be based on the performance of teams during the championships and will apply to the 12 Gaelic football teams qualifying for the third round of the All-Ireland Qualifier series or reaching a Provincial Final, and the 12 hurling teams participating in the McCarthy Cup. The level of award available to teams will be calculated on a sliding scale increasing with continuing involvement in the Championships.

Annual Support Scheme for the Development of Excellence in the Indigenous Sports of Hurling and Gaelic football
The Annual Support Scheme for the Development of Excellence will be based on the achievement of standards and performance-based criteria designed to raise/maintain the levels of preparation and skill of the teams and individuals not qualifying for the Team Performance Scheme. The GAA, the GPA and the Irish Sports Council will agree a set of standards and performance based criteria for counties and their senior team squads eliminated in the first two rounds of the All-Ireland Football Qualifiers, and those participating in the Tommy Murphy Cup, the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard Cups. Recognising that the achievement of excellence necessitates increased sacrifice and effort by counties and individuals, this scheme will assist them in achieving/maintaining the required standards. Support will not be made available to individuals or squads that fail to meet minimum standards.   
Funding   
An amount of €3.5m will be provided in 2008 to fund these schemes. 
Criteria for participation in these Schemes   
County committees, team management and players representatives in participating counties will develop improvement plans with measurable goals and objectives, agreed with the ISC, and consistent with national GAA coaching and games development policy. The supports will be based on the following criteria:
County Committee Responsibilities
•   Establish and agree key performance indicators with team management. This will involve identifying squad targets and objectives, formulating an appropriate training regime/plan, establishing a code of conduct to which all parties give agreement and the provision of comprehensive information and advice on the anti-doping code. These indicators, objectives and requirements will be incorporated in the proposed Charter for inter county teams and County Committees.
•   Provision, as appropriate, of qualified personnel to enhance player/team development. This to include advice and support in all aspects of team and individual fitness, nutrition, health and well-being associated with playing the games.
•   A system to take account of players joining or departing from the county squad will be agreed.
•   Ensure the presence of certified medical personnel at all inter-county games.
Player Responsibilities 
•   Attend at least 80% of all training sessions/matches. This commitment will also apply to injured/rehab personnel except where excused.
•   Demonstrate improvement through regular fitness testing.
•   Keep updated training log/diary.
•   Strict adherence to anti-doping code.
•   Players who violate the code will not receive awards
•   Injured players will be expected to meet a set of agreed minimum requirements to demonstrate that they are participating satisfactorily in the rehabilitation process in order to receive an award.
•   Players will commit to participate in an agreed level of coaching and games development work in their county on a voluntary basis. In co-operation with the Local Sports Partnerships players will visit schools and youth facilities as part of an overall policy to promote increased participation in their sports.
•   Players will involve themselves in initiatives at county and national level to promote their sports as a healthy activity for all ages.
•   Any Inter County Squad or Player may decline the amount.

Players have come out and stated this prior to the paper being released.

Its my opinion of what i would like happen. Are we all not entitled to our opinion?

[darbyo]

I can't believe some people are so thick that they don't believe inter county players want to be professional.

Yep, maybe some of us are simpletons, unable to grasp the complexities of the situation. On the other hand maybe we feel that these are driven sportsmen making the point that they'd love to be able to play GAA as professionals. In the same way as I'd love to get paid for playing club football/hurling, i.e. we'd love to live the life of a pro athlete getting paid to do what we love doing the most. If you tell your buddies that you'd love to sleep with Pam Anderson does that mean your leaving your wife, quiting your job and heading off to LA to woo her?

I know rowers and athletes who are professional and live virtually on the breadline ie about 10k a year.

The best athletes and rowers in this country can get grants to help their preparation, a good friend of mine is an international standard runner and gets €20K approximately from the sports council. I feel he should be better supported as should many top class sports people in this country but GAA players shouldn't feel guilty over this. I'm not sure what rowing brings into the government but it is pittance in comparison to what the GAA earns for the exchequer. Whatever money GAA players get from the government is well deserved.

Brian O Driscoll is a professional athlete on a signed contract, at club and international level.

If you want to make a comparison just come out and say , yes, i want to be a professional GAA player. Until that moment arrives you cannot compare like for like !!

So what if he is a professional, surely if the government are going to give money to sports people it shouldn't be to overpaid professionals but to amateurs who could do with the extra money. If the health service need more money it's not the GAA they should be looking to but the IRFU.

[Bensars]

Brian O Driscoll is a professional athlete on a signed contract, at club and international level.

If you want to make a comparison just come out and say , yes, i want to be a professional GAA player. Until that moment arrives you cannot compare like for like !!

So what if he is a professional, surely if the government are going to give money to sports people it shouldn't be to overpaid professionals but to amateurs who could do with the extra money. If the health service need more money it's not the GAA they should be looking to but the IRFU.

Agree 100%. Tell that to the club players who have trained all year, moreso the club players who went on to represent their counties in their respective provisional club tournaments. Oh and not forgetting the ladies, some of them have trained and committed as much time if not more than their male counterparts !

Are these individuals not as deserving?

[darbyo]

That's a fair enough point Bensars but we can be fairly certain that most inter county players are serious about their sport and have dedicated a great deal of time and effort to it. The majority of club players don't train all year, some of course do, but they don't generate the same money as inter county players. As for the ladies, if they get the same deal that's fine by me but the GPA don't represent them. We could go around this all week again but if this isn't the first step on the road to professionalism, and IMO it isn't, then what is the problem if the government gives them a few bob.
                        Inter county players do play for the love of the game, their county and the clubs, now the government is willing to pay them approx. €3K on top of that. As GAA people we should be rejoicing in that instead we're all of a sudden worried about shaggin rowers. Some of you have suggested that if inter county players aren't willing to play for the love of the game anymore then they should play a different sport may I suggest if you want to watch sportsmen engage in their sport only for the love of it, go watch rowing
.

[pintsofguinness]

That's a fair enough point Bensars but we can be fairly certain that most inter county players are serious about their sport and have dedicated a great deal of time and effort to it. The majority of club players don't train all year, some of course do, but they don't generate the same money as inter county players. As for the ladies, if they get the same deal that's fine by me but the GPA don't represent them.

On one breath you bascialy justify club players not getting anything because they done't generate money (either do county players imo) but yet you advocate the Ladies getting the same deal?  How much do they generate?

[darbyo]

No, POG I'm saying that the 200,000 (or whatever) club players don't do what IC players do except for a very small percent. If the AI club finalists (or provincial finalists) were given €2000 each by the competition sponsors I'd have no problem. IMO they'd deserve it, but if the government is footing the bill then it can only go to IC players. I know you might be able to punch holes in that argument but I think you know what I'm basically saying. Why as GAA people some of us are as upset about this as if junior club soccer players were getting the money I just can't understand.

[Bensars]

No, POG I'm saying that the 200,000 (or whatever) club players don't do what IC players do except for a very small percent. If the AI club finalists (or provincial finalists) were given €2000 each by the competition sponsors I'd have no problem. IMO they'd deserve it, but if the government is footing the bill then it can only go to IC players. I know you might be able to punch holes in that argument but I think you know what I'm basically saying. Why as GAA people some of us are as upset about this as if junior club soccer players were getting the money I just can't understand.

but if the government is footing the bill then it can only go to IC players.    Why only inter county players

Funding   
An amount of €3.5m will be provided in 2008 to fund these schemes. 
Criteria for participation in these Schemes   
County committees, team management and players representatives in participating counties will develop improvement plans with measurable goals and objectives, agreed with the ISC, and consistent with national GAA coaching and games development policy. The supports will be based on the following criteria:
County Committee Responsibilities
•   Establish and agree key performance indicators with team management. This will involve identifying squad targets and objectives, formulating an appropriate training regime/plan, establishing a code of conduct to which all parties give agreement and the provision of comprehensive information and advice on the anti-doping code. These indicators, objectives and requirements will be incorporated in the proposed Charter for inter county teams and County Committees.
•   Provision, as appropriate, of qualified personnel to enhance player/team development. This to include advice and support in all aspects of team and individual fitness, nutrition, health and well-being associated with playing the games.
•   A system to take account of players joining or departing from the county squad will be agreed.
•   Ensure the presence of certified medical personnel at all inter-county games.
Player Responsibilities 
•   Attend at least 80% of all training sessions/matches. This commitment will also apply to injured/rehab personnel except where excused.
•   Demonstrate improvement through regular fitness testing.
•   Keep updated training log/diary.
•   Strict adherence to anti-doping code.
•   Players who violate the code will not receive awards
•   Injured players will be expected to meet a set of agreed minimum requirements to demonstrate that they are participating satisfactorily in the rehabilitation process in order to receive an award.
•   Players will commit to participate in an agreed level of coaching and games development work in their county on a voluntary basis. In co-operation with the Local Sports Partnerships players will visit schools and youth facilities as part of an overall policy to promote increased participation in their sports.
•   Players will involve themselves in initiatives at county and national level to promote their sports as a healthy activity for all ages.
•   Any Inter County Squad or Player may decline the amount.

•   Attend at least 80% of all training sessions/matches. This commitment will also apply to injured/rehab personnel except where excused.
•   Demonstrate improvement through regular fitness testing.
•   Keep updated training log/diary.
•   Strict adherence to anti-doping code

Why can any of the above not apply to others. At the end of the day if a log has to kept, club players and others can keep a log to meet the above criteria

[pintsofguinness]

Do you need a hand with them goal posts darbyo?
You see it's going to get interesting now in the pay for play camp because yous are running out of arguments.
Lets see, for the last number of months we had justification for the grants to the intercounty players because they draw in crowds - the same people who argued this are going to turn around now and argue for grants for the grils when we know a lot of club games would draw in as many as Ladies football or camogie. 
Now I see you've shifted the argument back to the amount of time players spend training and I would say that there are a lot of club players who train as hard and give up as much time not to mention those cutting the grass, cleaning out the changing rooms etc. 

So which is it lads, the grants should be given out because the county players draw in crowds or because they put in more time than anyone else?

[darbyo]

but if the government is footing the bill then it can only go to IC players.    Why only inter county players

Because I'm a club player and I know I don't deserve to get anything from the Irish tax payer for my efforts on the GAA fields of Ireland, and the vast majority of the club players I know don't put in anything like the amount of time and effort that IC lads do.

Do you need a hand with them goal posts darbyo?
You see it's going to get interesting now in the pay for play camp because yous are running out of arguments.
Lets see, for the last number of months we had justification for the grants to the intercounty players because they draw in crowds - the same people who argued this are going to turn around now and argue for grants for the grils when we know a lot of club games would draw in as many as Ladies football or camogie. 
Now I see you've shifted the argument back to the amount of time players spend training and I would say that there are a lot of club players who train as hard and give up as much time not to mention those cutting the grass, cleaning out the changing rooms etc. 

So which is it lads, the grants should be given out because the county players draw in crowds or because they put in more time than anyone else?

We have had a pretty good debate about this up to now but I'm beginning to wonder is there any point talking to ye any more. There has beeen numerous arguments from the anti-GPA posters here as to why the IC lads shouldn't get the grant ranging from the doomsday scenario of pay for play to the unfairness of amateur rowers not getting the same as IC players and you tell me I'm moving posts. I'll tell you what POG give me your reasons why the IC players shouldn't get a grant from the government, you tell me why you oppose it and I'll tell you why I agree with it.
                    By the way I never argued for grants for the girls I just said I'd have no problem if they got one. And to follow on that point if the government said they were willing to give the club grass cutters a grant I'd have no problem with that either. I can only presume that if the government said they were willing to give the grassroots GAA member a grant for cutting the grass, selling lotto tickets, washing jersey's and coaching the U8's you'd be of the opinion that he should tell them where they could shove their grant and if he didn't well he could f**k off and do it for Manchester Utd. where they get paid for that type of thing.

[pintsofguinness]

There are a number of arguments but the very basic one is very simple.  I have always found that one of the greatest things about the GAA was that everyone was pretty much equal, everyone had their part to play, the man cutting the grass on a Saturday was as important as his club mate playing in front of 80,000 on the Sunday. 
That's now gone.