Murdering Babies

[gaagaa]

no she was my sister in law - not everyone anti abortion is a facist

[stephenite]

no she was my sister in law - not everyone anti abortion is a facist

Just found in interesting, I've heard variations of that story at least 4-5 times before in different parts of Ireland and Scotland over a 16 year period. Could just mean that this is far more prevalent than I thought

[pintsofguinness]

Not unusual Stephenite

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article597136.ece

"They can be born breathing and crying at 19 weeks' gestation,"

The issue will be highlighted by Gianna Jessen, 28, who survived an attempt to abort her. She is to speak at a parliamentary meeting on December 6 organised by the Alive and Kicking campaign, which is lobbying for a reduction of the abortion limit to 18 weeks.

Jessen, a musician from Nashville, Tennessee, was left with cerebral palsy but is to run in the London marathon next April to raise funds for fellow sufferers.

"If abortion is about women's rights, then what were my rights?" she asked.

"If people are going to talk about abortion, then it's important for them to know that these are babies that can be born alive and survive."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6574873.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=369922&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

Now some of the country's leading doctors will investigate how so many survived to be born after just 22 weeks of pregnancy. Shockingly, some of the babies may have gone through more than one abortion.

Doctors in Norwich are treating a toddler born at 24 weeks after three botched terminations.

The boy, now aged two, has a range of medical problems.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Have to admit it is pretty arrogant to think the people can decide that "women should be forced to carry a baby to birth" if they don't want to......

I personally think that unless you have or are in the situation where it is a decision in your life then you should be a bit more respectful of someones choice to choose...

[Tony hawks]

I used to be all in favour of abortion then fairly recently ive become a dad to a beautiful bay girl and when she grabs my little finger or thumb or smiles at me i cant imagine life without her its not black and white it never can be.

[ziggysego]

Have to admit it is pretty arrogant to think the people can decide that "women should be forced to carry a baby to birth" if they don't want to......

Pretty arrogant to create life, only to take it away again. Every action has a consequent.

[pintsofguinness]

I personally think that unless you have or are in the situation where it is a decision in your life then you should be a bit more respectful of someones choice to choose...

I dont understand this choice business, if a woman is carrying another developing human life why should she have a choice to end that life? 
If the baby was born and she decided in the hospital that she didn't want him/her, should she have the same choice to end that life?

[Puckoon]

she should be made to carry the baby for the full term and then up the baby up for adoption.

The only acceptions are if she was raped or the mother's life is in danger.

Oooh, a right can of worms this one.

Abortion as birth control is not acceptable. There are however circumstances in peoples lives which we may never understand. Its very easy to be an armchair advocate one way or another. Im going to do my best to put forward my own opinion without insulting anyone. One basic premise exists however, who are we to determine a woman life experience? What gives us the right to insist that a woman "be made carry a child"? Thats a little self righteous of us.
Im very much pro choice. Im not advocating abortion. If a woman decides that having an unwanted pregnancy through to term is something that will destroy her life as she knows it, then the option for abortion should be available. Its a disgrace in this day and age that we still have women fleeing Ireland to have terminations in England. Interestingly, most of the strong opinions on anti abortion come from men.
Men who will never know what its like to take physical responsibility for a human being growing inside you
Men who will never know the fear/pressure/stigma or life prospects of being a 15 year old single, pregnant mother to be.
Men who will say "Its their own responsibility for having unprotected sex" yet have run that particular gauntlet with women here or there (Knowing full well the burden of responsibility wont fall on them)

What about the woman who cannot stop injecting heroin throughout her pregnancy and so daily damages the fetus? Should she be made carry to term?
I know women on both sides of the divide, those who cannot concieve, and those who have terminated. Ive been present to carry a girl out of a clinic after an abortion and watched the tears running down her face. Its a pitiful sight, and its a pitiful choice. One that I as a man will never claim to understand.

We as men should not be allowed to carry the vote on the legality of abortion.

BTW, That "spiel" about the moans of a formed baby in a bucket. Total shite.

[pintsofguinness]

BTW, That "spiel" about the moans of a formed baby in a bucket. Total shite.

Did you read my links?

[stephenite]

Each individual case is different.

If a girl has an abortion through promiscuous behaviour than I feel the baby should be carried full term and put up for adoption, there is also the argument for the mental state this leaves the Mother having carried the child full term, there are many other scenarios in relation to individual circumstances of each case that cause me to say - who am I to have an opinion on every case.

I dont understand this choice business, if a woman is carrying another developing human life why should she have a choice to end that life? 
If the baby was born and she decided in the hospital that she didn't want him/her, should she have the same choice to end that life?

It goes back to the legal definition of life and not your interpretation of what life is. Of course a woman should not have the choice to end the life of a full term infant at birth, which countires have this ??

As for not understanding the choice aspect, well if you cannot see past the legal definition of when it is legally a life as opposed to a foetus, clump of cells or whatever than I suspect you'll never understand it. I don't mean that disrespectfully but if it's your opinion that life begins at conception than you're never going to agree with anyone who terminates because it's their opinion that's it's not a life, yet.

It's never black and white in these sort of arguments  - I'm pro choice in most circumstances, some people are virulently anti-aborion in all circumstances. Just the way it is

[Puckoon]

I have a friend was a nurse in england way back  & ordered to work for a while in hospital where abortion performed

one night she said the foetus came out alive after being scraped out - they turned music up really loud to try to drown out the baby's moans & left it in a bucket to die - she said it was clearly formed
she ran out in tears & came home after than

thats what were dealing with

Intersting how every anti-abortion person knows the same nurse isn't it? Was this girl from Wexford?

Yeah pints, I read your links. Your links arent what im covering. Vexing news that doesnt change my opinion.  Its the scaremongering tactics of urban legens such as the one ive highlighted above that Ive an issue with. That said the decision to abort isnt something that should take 22 weeks, unless the parents have made a decision based on the health of the baby/mother.

Im not sure if I think of myself as a liberal, utilitarian maybe. (stew removed his post, so this part wont make any sense).

[J70]

There is one post on here that in my opinion sounds like they are preaching and that is the first one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have no issues with that.

Pints asks a fair question. There is no getting around the fact that abortion involves the death of a baby.

I am personally anti-abortion except where the mother's life is at risk (and even then only early in the pregnancy) but that statement is nonsense.

It may well be, but just saying so doesn't make it so.

[J70]

Have to admit it is pretty arrogant to think the people can decide that "women should be forced to carry a baby to birth" if they don't want to......

I personally think that unless you have or are in the situation where it is a decision in your life then you should be a bit more respectful of someones choice to choose...

Should women be allowed to end the life of their baby after birth? Is it their's to do with as they please? Or does it's parasitic nature end on birth?

[deiseach]

J70, you're just acting the bollix now

More power to ya!

[J70]

\

What gives us the right to insist that a woman "be made carry a child"? Thats a little self righteous of us.

How is it self-righteous? A baby in a womb is an independent human being, not a body part that the woman is free to treat as she pleases.