The IRA does everything...

[Seany]

These boys don't remember the provos when they were putting their lives at risk and knew how to take out five or six of the enemy with a well placed bomb, or a sniper or whatever.  many of them don't even know a thing about the war.  the boys who killed him are as dangerous as he was.  My point is re Cullyhanna.  A place where law seems to have completely broken down.  A community that is hardened to thuggery and sheer badness.  Even their football team has a reputation as being vicious bastards. 

At least during the struggle, there was a certain element of law and order.  there's none now.  i wonder what will halloween night be like this year because in recent years the place has gone nuts.

[pintsofguinness]

Well heres a question:
Why in a place, so long feared by the British Government, and the majority of people who drove through it, is this type of activity happening. Id have imagined that there would still be so many well connected men around Cross, that no one would dream of stepping out of line? Men whose word would ultimately be obeyed (whether it should be relied on as a policing alternative or not is a different matter) How is the thug flourishing in Cross?

Very simple, we'd no police force for years, they were only interested in the IRA - anyone acting the **** where dealt with by the IRA.
The IRA don't do that now, no police force, no law in order.  Thugs behave how they want.  Cullyhanna went to the dogs a few years ago, Cross is heading the same way.

This is discusting. It's more discusting that posters like POG think it's acceptable. You are no better than the animals who committed this murder!

Where did I say it was acceptable?  I don't think it's acceptable but I ask again, what do you think is going to happen in a community when you've a thug running riot and when the police will do NOTHING?  Do you think everyone in that community is going to put up with it?

[theskull1]

Well heres a question:
Why in a place, so long feared by the British Government, and the majority of people who drove through it, is this type of activity happening. Id have imagined that there would still be so many well connected men around Cross, that no one would dream of stepping out of line? Men whose word would ultimately be obeyed (whether it should be relied on as a policing alternative or not is a different matter) How is the thug flourishing in Cross?

Surely you could answer that one yourself puckoon? The threat of the heavy hand has been lifted since SF went into government with the DUP. They are thriving because of the vacuum which exists in policing. A sceptic would think that the police want these communities to suffer and disintegrate ( call it payback if you will)

Bacon ...do you not think your are over simplifying things and being a little bit self righteous. Everybody is saying it was wrong but you have take a broader view of things and understand how all the domino's got lined up and this terrible incident happened

[Bacon]

If you don't think this is acceptable I apologise for misrepresenting you.

[pintsofguinness]

You never answered my question

what do you think is going to happen in a community when you've a thug running riot and when the police will do NOTHING?  Do you think everyone in that community is going to put up with it?

You and a lot of others come on here to criticise those who done it (and rightly so) but the real problem here is the police, I see few questioning why they will do nothing or criticising them. 

[Tony hawks]

I dont come from South Armagh so therefore i cant say what happens on a daily basis down there.

Howver what happened to the mudered man was wrong absolutely wrong and under no circumstances should this be supported.

Where i come from we have many similar problems and many times i wish these people were dealt with on a somewhat stronger basis,but they cant be because unelected unaccoutable hooded men can never have the say over life and death.

These so called arbiters of justice have to be condemned,simply because if they are willing to do this to that fella what would they do a member of your family if they crossed them

[Lecale2]

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.

[Tony hawks]

Thats absolutely spot on couldnt agree more.

[Donagh]

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.

I hear Conor Murphy is coming for Guillem next...

[Owenmoresider]

A few facts now...

SOme time ago, Newsline showed a bit of 'Police Camera Action' stuff in south Armagh.  A stolen car being pursued at top speed through Forkhill.  Our deceased friend behind the wheel.

Was that the one when the RUC followed the car to a crossroads (presumably marking the border) at which AGS pulled out and started chasing him? Remember seeing that alright.

[saffron sam2]

Pints.  Not too sure what you're getin at.  I thought Keith Rogers was defending his community or something like that.  There is a march every year for him which is well attended.  I have to admit I don't know all the facts of that one, so you might let me know.

Aye that's what the ceasefire soldiers would have you believe.  Keith Rodgers was 16 in 1994 - who do you think he was fighting? 
He belonged to a smuggling gang of ceasefire soldiers, he took a gun to go and shoot a member of another smuggling gang, the man he was going to shoot took the gun of him and shot him in self defence.

So did Keith Rogers die a criminal or a hero? A quick google for his name will give some idea, certainly from the republican movements perspective.

What is the difference between the gang Keith Rogers was part of and the gang that killed Paul Quinn?

[lynchbhoy]

Well heres a question:
Why in a place, so long feared by the British Government, and the majority of people who drove through it, is this type of activity happening. Id have imagined that there would still be so many well connected men around Cross, that no one would dream of stepping out of line? Men whose word would ultimately be obeyed (whether it should be relied on as a policing alternative or not is a different matter) How is the thug flourishing in Cross?

Very simple, we'd no police force for years, they were only interested in the IRA - anyone acting the **** where dealt with by the IRA.
The IRA don't do that now, no police force, no law in order.  Thugs behave how they want.  Cullyhanna went to the dogs a few years ago, Cross is heading the same way.

This is discusting. It's more discusting that posters like POG think it's acceptable. You are no better than the animals who committed this murder!

Where did I say it was acceptable?  I don't think it's acceptable but I ask again, what do you think is going to happen in a community when you've a thug running riot and when the police will do NOTHING?  Do you think everyone in that community is going to put up with it?

the same is happening in Derry city, where the young thugs and vandals are running riot around the town, but the cops will not do a thing to stop them,
however you will find them up around the houses of the former IRA men, goading and harassing them...

its gone from 7 to now 15-20 men that beat this young lad the other night.
If some or all of the guys were IRA men, so what - if they are also members of ulster rugby - do we blame the RFU ?

what a load of finger pointing bollix

the point is, the lad should not have been killed , and this is all as a result of the ineptitude of the psni (aka ruc - which still has yet to be regulated at the top).

[thebandit]

In Cross at present there are gangs of young lads running about every weekend acting like scum, there has been public meetings held locally about this. Cullyhanna is worse again. While what happened should never have happened, the PSNI have to be held responsible as well. Local people justifiably have no confidence in them to deal with petty crime.

Paul Quinn was no angel, neither were his friends. But in a properly policed local community there is much less chance that this would have escalated in this manner. What he was given the beating for wasn't over drugs or 'political struggles'. It was over localised petty crime.

Its an awful pity that its come to this.

[ludermor]

What he was given the beating for wasn't over drugs or 'political struggles'. It was over localised petty crime.

Holy shit!!!! thats some punishment for 'petty' crime. And some beating where they break almost every bone in his body. its a few steps past giving a lad a few slaps to teach him a lesson

[thebandit]

What he was given the beating for wasn't over drugs or 'political struggles'. It was over localised petty crime.

Holy shit!!!! thats some punishment for 'petty' crime. And some beating where they break almost every bone in his body. its a few steps past giving a lad a few slaps to teach him a lesson

Thats for sure and certain