Soldiers of Destiny to storm the border

[Donagh]

Ach deiseach read what I said ffs.

That's it? Bloody hell . . .

Sorry to disappoint but most of your post was irrelevant to the point I was making. Nowhere did I mention the Irish government taking over the British subsidy or whether there is as much bureaucracy in the south as the north.

Simply that there is a perception that FF is the party of business. If they come north, they will again be perceived to have more power and influence than any of the unionist parties in the north. This alone will be enough to attract unionists would want to progress in business and develop a competitive economy (as opposed to the bloated public sector which sucks up most of the current resources).

[deiseach]

Sorry to disappoint but most of your post was irrelevant to the point I was making. Nowhere did I mention the Irish government taking over the British subsidy or whether there is as much bureaucracy in the south as the north.

The fact that you don't even see the question as being worth asking, let alone provide an answer to it, shows your appreciation of business.

[magickingdom]

So what are you thinking? What is it the Free State can offer that can compensate for the loss of the slush fund that is the British Treasury, which in one year back in the late 80's BORROWED more than the Irish Exchequer SPENT?

wtf has that got to do with anything? and the usa spends more on coffee before 11am on any given day then the uk spends on health in a year. so what? if you want to know what the civil service in the north will be doing down the road in any constitutional set up its this, they'll be in income producing jobs or unemployable. per capita the roi has mastered that better than anyone else. if you want to do comparsions go goggle the irish/british gdp or productivity index or check annual economic growth this past 15 years..

[Donagh]

Sorry to disappoint but most of your post was irrelevant to the point I was making. Nowhere did I mention the Irish government taking over the British subsidy or whether there is as much bureaucracy in the south as the north.

The fact that you don't even see the question as being worth asking, let alone provide an answer to it, shows your appreciation of business.

I didn't say it wasn't worth asking, just not relevant to the particular point I raised.

[magickingdom]

If unionists are prepared to consider voting across the usual tribal lines for the sake of a quick buck, then you would expect* nationalists formerly to have done the same when the economic tables were turned. Which would be consistent, I suppose, even if it is contrary to my own particular opinion.

i wouldnt think ff would get one unionist to vote for it, although with the way paisley is flip flopping lately i would rule nothing out. but if they merge with the sdlp i would see them doing very well and eating into the sf vote.... we might actually see ministers from one party (ff!) north and south.  its some cheek of empey to say 1) its the last thing the north needs (i thought that was violence) 2) berties throwing a hand grenade into northern politics by suggesting this (could he move on from the violent methaphors). its something i'd love to see ff do and the unionists can do fcuk all about it...

[deiseach]

wtf has that got to do with anything? and the usa spends more on coffee before 11am on any given day then the uk spends on health in a year. so what?

The point is that the cost of NI is barely noticeable to the British economy, just like the way (for example) the United States can afford to run the licence-to-incinerate-money that is Nasa.

if you want to know what the civil service in the north will be doing down the road in any constitutional set up its this, they'll be in income producing jobs or unemployable.

We can't - or at least we don't - ask people who have worked in the civil service to take up jobs in Tescos or McDonalds, so either they find new jobs which match their bureaucratic skills or they go onto the ranks of the long-term unemployed. If there is a group of people up North who are so motivated by economic matters that they will let it affect their attitude to the constitutioinal situation, then any of those who are employed by the state are going to opt for the status quo

(It should be noted that I don't believe such a group exists, or not in such significant numbers as to matter)

per capita the roi has mastered that better than anyone else. if you want to do comparsions go goggle the irish/british gdp or productivity index or check annual economic growth this past 15 years..

It's easy to go up when you're starting at the bottom - relatively speaking , of course

[Solomon Kane]

There are some fanciful ideas being spouted here. Does anyone really think that a certain Unionist "class" will change their basically inbuilt views because a ROI party will organise in Northern Ireland? All FF will do if they don't merge with the SDLP is split the nationalist vote. Even then it will have no bearing on a border poll. No matter what Gordon, Bertie or anyone else believes a border poll is the only thing that will change Northern Ireland's constitutional position, and the DUP seem quite excited about the idea of having one.
I can't see any real benefit to FF in organising in Northern Ireland. They risk embarrassment if they do go to the polls, possibly on the scale of SF's c**k-up in the last ROI elections. 

[armaghniac]

We can't - or at least we don't - ask people who have worked in the civil service to take up jobs in Tescos or McDonald

Whatever happens in the 6 counties it will be a slow and gradual change. Assuming peace and a measure of prosperity then things will evolve. Civil servants will not be thrown out, but despite an increasing population there may not be as many recruited at the entry level. This won't cause any hardship as many will prefer the better paid private sector jobs.

If there is a group of people up North who are so motivated by economic matters that they will let it affect their attitude to the constitutional situation,

in the past the economic arguements meant that people didn't really have to think about unity. Now that there is likely to be little difference in the economic aspects of things than people have to really think about the cultural and identify issues. The question is posed, you can't say that NI is in the UK because the ROI is a basket case, when in many ways the ROI is the envy of other European countries. You are then down to saying that NI should be in the UK for some other reason and those reasons will be debated. The status quo is no longer seen as the only possible outcome. This debate doesn't mean that people will change their views but as events in the South have shown people's views do change fairly quickly in some cases.

It's easy to go up when you're starting at the bottom - relatively speaking , of course

Not that easy or Haiti or Burkino Faso would have a huge growth rate.

border poll is the only thing that will change Northern Ireland's constitutional position, and the DUP seem quite excited about the idea of having one.

Have such a poll, but only after a serious attempt to identify the detail of the arrangements proposed. Having a poll where there is great clarity about the Uk part of the deal and little about the UI part of the deal is trading on fear of the unknown. Perhaps the only benefit of FF involvement is that it might assist clarity on the UI offer.

[magickingdom]

It's easy to go up when you're starting at the bottom - relatively speaking , of course

bollix or maybe you can explain that to me, were talking about two developed countries here.

There are some fanciful ideas being spouted here. Does anyone really think that a certain Unionist "class" will change their basically inbuilt views because a ROI party will organise in Northern Ireland? All FF will do if they don't merge with the SDLP is split the nationalist vote. Even then it will have no bearing on a border poll. No matter what Gordon, Bertie or anyone else believes a border poll is the only thing that will change Northern Ireland's constitutional position, and the DUP seem quite excited about the idea of having one.   I can't see any real benefit to FF in organising in Northern Ireland. They risk embarrassment if they do go to the polls, possibly on the scale of SF's c**k-up in the last ROI elections. 

solomon, a border poll would be a distaster for the north right now. it will result in a unionist majority but with a nationalist vote in the 40-45% region it would lead to a very unstable situation going forward imo. i think your right about ff - unless they merge with the sdlp they risk embarrassment just like the conservatives when they stood

[Donagh]

There are some fanciful ideas being spouted here. Does anyone really think that a certain Unionist "class" will change their basically inbuilt views because a ROI party will organise in Northern Ireland?

Who said that?

[Bogball XV]

That's not what I was thinking but whatever you reckon yourself deiseach

So what are you thinking? What is it the Free State can offer that can compensate for the loss of the slush fund that is the British Treasury, which in one year back in the late 80's BORROWED more than the Irish Exchequer SPENT?

I reckon the Irish exchequer most likely borrowed more than was spent every year throughout the 80's

[Bogball XV]

I wonder if FF got into power up north would they start some sort of a sell off of the schools and hospitals?  I mean it wouldn't be fair to operate two tiered systems in these areas and they could maybe raise a few pound that could be squirrelled away somewhere (under a bed most likely).
Of course alternatively, they could see how first world economies supply these services and they might decide that maybe in the distant future the south could aspire to provide its citizens with such services - but of course I'm joking, the sell off would be more appealing.

[Solomon Kane]

There are some fanciful ideas being spouted here. Does anyone really think that a certain Unionist "class" will change their basically inbuilt views because a ROI party will organise in Northern Ireland?

Who said that?

You, 3rd post down.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4781.0

[Donagh]

There are some fanciful ideas being spouted here. Does anyone really think that a certain Unionist "class" will change their basically inbuilt views because a ROI party will organise in Northern Ireland?

Who said that?

You, 3rd post down.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4781.0

No I didn't. Go read it again.

[stephenite]

Any truth in the reports that FF took more new members at Freshers Week in the various Universities in the North by 4:1 ?