The Old Derry / Londonderry name problem

[lynchbhoy]

I don't understand the fixation with counties.  Apart from GAA and a Westminister constituency there doesn't appear to be any reason to actually refer too much to the county name.  The Gaels do their own thing about that and no one gives a toss either way.

The fixation with the counties is almost entirely down to the GAA. I must confess to liking the whole tribalism associated with the counties. Mrs d admits to being envious of that granite sense of place that many Irish people associate with the counties.

a lot of people including and like roger have the same feeling - its not to a county though its to the 6 counties only they call this cut off provincial representation 'ulster' (or al-staarr)

there wouldnt be a whole lot to cheer about usually if you are from antrim, down, fermanagh, Derry and becomming more frequent now - armagh and tyrone!

[Roger]

Lynchboy, would you ever grow up and stop acting the magott? You are not even trolling anymore but simply spouting nonsense that is irrelevant to the posts you are responding to and adding insults to boot. Pathetic. 

County Londonderry was never named County Colmcille.  I have never stated there was no place called Colmcille however I stated that there was no county Colmcille or county Derry so to rename County Londonderry as Derry or Colmcille is not putting the name back to the county name before the bad Brits started their menacing (as some seem to think).  If the county was to be renamed back to its original then Coleraine would be more accurate. 

Please try to keep up.

[nifan]

I think this was in existence prior to the reign of Eoghan.

What excisted  - the area of comcille?
Eoghan was around a hundred years before colmcille as far as im aware.

So this land region known as Colmcilles country, was bigger than the current county Derry and took in some of what
is now Antrim, Donegal and Tyrone.

Any references for this - i can find nothing concerning colmcilles country.

[lynchbhoy]

So this land region known as Colmcilles country, was bigger than the current county Derry and took in some of what
is now Antrim, Donegal and Tyrone.

Any references for this - i can find nothing concerning colmcilles country.

only from what was taught to us by the teacher, they were taking this out of a book - so its out there somewhere.

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy, would you ever grow up and stop acting the magott? You are not even trolling anymore but simply spouting nonsense that is irrelevant to the posts you are responding to and adding insults to boot. Pathetic. 

County Londonderry was never named County Colmcille.  I have never stated there was no place called Colmcille however I stated that there was no county Colmcille or county Derry so to rename County Londonderry as Derry or Colmcille is not putting the name back to the county name before the bad Brits started their menacing (as some seem to think).  If the county was to be renamed back to its original then Coleraine would be more accurate. 

Please try to keep up.

you obv just cannot read - as most likely you dont like reality!
typical unionist/loyalist response though ! Dont like it so dont accept/acknowledge or refuse to understand it !

colmcilles country  ....thats country not county you eejit !

colmcille predates coleraine
but as I said the county will be named Derry (like Antrim was named after its main town, similar to Donegal, Monaghan, Dublin, Limerick, Armagh, Galway, Roscommon, Kilkenny, wexford, Cork....etc etc etc - catch my drift!)
so what if the planters go in there first. We all know what the county name should have been, and what it will be in the future.

I'd have thought loyalist/unionists would prefer to go with county colmcille as middleground.
Obv not.

[nifan]

Given the wealth of reference on the internet id expect some reference out there but i find nothing.
Never heard of it growing up in the city.

Also, i updated my previous post as well - but in case you missed it, it seems you imply that colmcilles country precedes the reign of eoghan, who was around 100 years pre-comcille.

[Myles Na G.]

Your argument would also mean that counties should be abolished. Might suit some people better in their quest to play at Croke Park.

Not necessarily, and this is where the dappled and mottled shades of grey come into play.

I think the county boundaries, as they are currently defined, and as bequeathed by Whitehall in her boundless munificence (thanks Britain), do just fine. Admittedly, that's from more of a cultural/sporting perspective than a political one, but what the heck, anything to get one over on those b*stards next door(s) 

It ain't the lines that are the problem, but those who have drawn them.

It isn't the name, it is simply who named it and the relationship with where they are from then?

Nail on head. This has nothing to do with restoring the 'right' name or 'preserving' the proper order of things. This is simply about nationalists trying to assert their ownership of the area, while unionists are desperately trying to preserve what they see as an important part of their identity. As usual, it has degenerated into a zero sum game with only one possible winner. And as often happens with zero sum games, even the winner runs the risk of winning the battle but losing the war. What happens if the nationalist argument wins the day and Derry becomes the official title of the place? Not a great deal, except that unionists looking on are confirmed in their opinion that a united Ireland dominated by nationalists would mean the end of all things British / protestant / unionist. Is that what we want? Absolutely not, given that we require the consent of these same unionists before a united Ireland becomes a reality.  Would it not therefore be a smarter move to support the retention of Londonderry as the official title? Would this not be an indication to unionists that their future is safe in our hands?

[ziggysego]

What I don't understand is that Unionist say there has to be a vote for a United Ireland as the majority would not vote that way and it cannot be imposed on them. However the Nationalist majority of Derry are not afforded the same right in the naming of their city.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

It isn't the name, it is simply who named it and the relationship with where they are from then?

No, it's more what it represents than who they are and whence they came.

As Ziggy says, why can't the majority of the City decide, and likewise the county? Either it's about democracy or it's not.

[deiseach]

Absolutely not, given that we require the consent of these same unionists before a united Ireland becomes a reality.  Would it not therefore be a smarter move to support the retention of Londonderry as the official title? Would this not be an indication to unionists that their future is safe in our hands?

This makes about as much sense as telling Quebec nationalists that the way to encourage more Anglophones to support independence is not to insist on all that French business. I'd be very surprised if Unionists, who by definition wish NI to remain part of the Union, were to be swayed from such a fundamental position by something as trivial as this.

[Ulster Exile]

What I don't understand is that Unionist say there has to be a vote for a United Ireland as the majority would not vote that way and it cannot be imposed on them. However the Nationalist majority of Derry are not afforded the same right in the naming of their city.

It isn't the name, it is simply who named it and the relationship with where they are from then?

No, it's more what it represents than who they are and whence they came.

As Ziggy says, why can't the majority of the City decide, and likewise the county? Either it's about democracy or it's not.

Because majority rule 'democracy' has worked so well in this part of the world up to now.

[Rossfan]

given that we require the consent of these same unionists before a united Ireland becomes a reality. 

We need only 10 - 15% of them to vote through a re unification.
"Londonderry" was a name imposed on the city by a shower of violent people who murdered etc and stole land from the natives.
Surely in these peaceful times we have to be opposed to any remaining manifestations to that sort of murderous past.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

What I don't understand is that Unionist say there has to be a vote for a United Ireland as the majority would not vote that way and it cannot be imposed on them. However the Nationalist majority of Derry are not afforded the same right in the naming of their city.

It isn't the name, it is simply who named it and the relationship with where they are from then?

No, it's more what it represents than who they are and whence they came.

As Ziggy says, why can't the majority of the City decide, and likewise the county? Either it's about democracy or it's not.

Because majority rule 'democracy' has worked so well in this part of the world up to now.

Democracy in 1918 didn't suit, so as usual the lines were redrawn to secure a 'positive' democracy for empire. Quite.

[longrunsthefox]

I had a mate went to bus station many years ago and asked for a ticet to Derry. The man in the booth asked, "is that Edenderry, Ballinderry or......' and my friend said..."london-derry." brilliantly set up...     

[Olaf]

What I don't understand is that Unionist say there has to be a vote for a United Ireland as the majority would not vote that way and it cannot be imposed on them.

...........a principle also approved by the majority of the Nationalist population. It's not just the Unionists that "say" this.

This proposed  renaming of towns/cities mularky could really catch on. It's not as if their are enough divisive issues in Northern Ireland.